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On “Specified Complexity,” Orgel and Dembski

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Bill Dembski often uses the term “specified complexity” to denote a characteristic of patterns that are best explained by the act of an intelligent designer. He defines the term as follows:

What is specified complexity? An object, event, or structure exhibits specified complexity if it is both complex (i.e., one of many live possibilities) and specified (i.e., displays an independently given pattern). A long sequence of randomly strewn Scrabble pieces is complex without being specified. A short sequence spelling the word “the” is specified without being complex. A sequence corresponding to a Shakespearean sonnet is both complex and specified.

William A. Dembski, No Free Lunch: Why Specified Complexity Cannot Be Purchased without Intelligence (Lanham: Rowman & Littlefield, 2002), xiii.

 

Dembski does not claim to have originated the concept of specified complexity:

The term specified complexity is about thirty years old. To my knowledge origin-of-life researcher Leslie Orgel was the first to use it. In his 1973 book The Origins of Life he wrote: “Living organisms are distinguished by their specified complexity. Crystals such as granite fail to qualify as living because they lack complexity; mixtures of random polymers fail to qualify because they lack specificity” (189). More recently, Paul Davies (1999, 112) identified specified complexity as the key to resolving the problem of life’s origin: “Living organisms are mysterious not for their complexity per se, but for their tightly specified complexity.”

The Logical Underpinnings of Intelligent Design

Is there a relationship between Leslie Orgel’s use of the term and Dembski’s. Yes, Dembski explains the relationship as follows:

Neither Orgel nor Davies, however, provided a precise analytic account of specified complexity. I provide such an account in The Design Inference (1998b) and its sequel No Free Lunch (2002). In this section I want briefly to outline my work on specified complexity. Orgel and Davies used specified complexity loosely. I’ve formalized it as a statistical criterion for identifying the effects of intelligence.

Id.

In summary, Orgel and Davies used the concept of specified complexity loosely. Dembski takes the concept they used loosely and formalizes it. One must be willfully obtuse, however, to fail to see the connection between the way Dembski uses the term and the way Orgel uses the term.

Dembski:

A long sequence of randomly strewn Scrabble pieces is complex without being specified.
A short sequence spelling the word “the” is specified without being complex.
A sequence corresponding to a Shakespearean sonnet is both complex and specified.

Orgel:

Mixtures of random polymers are complex without being specified.
Crystals such as granite are specified without being complex.
Living organisms are both complex and specified.

Yes, Orgel used the term more loosely than Dembski, but they are talking about the same concept. That is why Dembski repeatedly connects the term with Orgel and Davies in No Free Lunch.

When intelligent agents act, they leave behind a characteristic trademark or signature-what I define as specified complexity. [FN13] The complexity-specification criterion detects design by identifying this trademark of designed objects.
No Free Lunch, 6
[FN13]: The term “specified complexity” goes back at least to 1973, when Leslie Orgel used it in connection with origins-of-life research: “Living organisms are distinguished by their specified complexity. Crystals such as granite fail to qualify as living because they lack complexity; mixtures of random polymers fail to qualify because they lack specificity.” See Orgel, The Origins of Life (New York: Wiley, 1973 ), 189. The challenge of specified complexity to nonteleological accounts of life’s origin continues to loom large. Thus according to Paul Davies, “Living organisms are mysterious not for their complexity per se, but for their tightly specified complexity.” See Paul Davies, The Fifth Miracle (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1999), 112.

And

The central problem of biology is therefore not simply the origin of information but the origin of complex specified information. Paul Davies emphasized this point in his recent book The Fifth Miracle where he summarizes the current state of origin-of-life research: “Living organisms are mysterious not for their complexity per se, but for their tightly specified complexity.” The problem of specified complexity has dogged origin-of-life research now for decades. Leslie Orgel recognized the problem in the early 1970s: “Living organisms are distinguished by their specified complexity. Crystals such as granite fail to qualify as living because they lack complexity; mixtures of random polymers fail to qualify because they lack specificity.” [FN33]
No Free Lunch, 149
[FN33]: Leslie Orgel, The Origins of Life (New York: Wiley, 1973), 189.

And

In The Fifth Miracle Davies goes so far as to suggest that any laws capable of explaining the origin of life must be radically different from any scientific laws known to date.3 The problem, as he sees it, with currently known scientific laws, like the laws of chemistry and physics, is that they cannot explain the key feature of life that needs to be explained.   That feature is specified complexity. As Davies puts it: “Living organisms are mysterious not for their complexity per se, but for their tightly specified complexity.” [FN 5]
No Free Lunch, 180
[FN5] Davies, Fifth Miracle, 112. Consider also the following claim by Leslie Orgel: “Living organisms are distinguished by their specified complexity. Crystals such as granite fail to qualify as living because they lack complexity; mixtures of random polymers fail to qualify because they lack specificity.” In Leslie Orgel, The Origins of Life (New York: John Wiley, 1973), 189.

And

The term “specified complexity” has been in use for about thirty years. The first reference to it with which I am familiar is from Leslie Orgel’s 1973 book The Origins of Life, where specified complexity is treated as a feature of biological systems distinct from inorganic systems. [FN35]
No Free Lunch, 328-29.
[FN 35] Leslie Orgel, The Origins of Life (New York: Wiley, 1973 ), 189.

UPDATE (HT to Mung):

Orgel on Specified Complexity

Crystals are usually taken as the prototypes of simple well specified structures…Lumps of granite or random mixtures of polymers are examples of structures which are complex but not specified.

p. 189

Wait for it …

These vague idea can be made more precise by introducing the idea of information. Roughly speaking, the information content of a structure is the minimum number of instructions needed to specify the structure. One can see intuitively that many instructions are needed to specify a complex structure. On the other hand a simple repeating structure can be specified in rather few instructions. Complex but random structures, by definition, need hardly be specified at all.

– p. 190

A final nail:

Paley was right to emphasize the need for special explanations of the existence of objects with high information content, for they cannot be formed in nonevolutionary, inorganic processes.

– p. 196

Comments
Moose Dr: There has been a lot of squibbling lately about Dembski’s definition of specified complexity, or CSI. The primary question is whether the conclusion is part of the definition. Sure, which is why we had to add the caveat "as normally construed". Not sure even that is strong enough. Moose Dr: I would concede that if all proteins resided on overlapping islands, RM+NS could, in theory produce them all. If the specificity is only for weak functionality, then there are functional proteins in random sequences. And these sequences can be optimized through rounds of selection and replication, which implies that there is a reasonable pathway from low functionality to higher functionality. As for moving from one protein directly to another, see Schultes & Bartel, One Sequence, Two Ribozymes: Implications for the Emergence of New Ribozyme Folds, Science 2000, who showed a pathway from one functional fold to another functional fold even while maintaining the original function. This shows that the so-called islands are connected. Moose Dr: However, I do not believe that such a clean overlapping exists. I believe that Dembski is saying that if ever DNA must swim between islands, it is swimming in the infinite sea. Think of function as a high peak with a broad plain. If you look for only highly optimized functions, then they will be isolated; however, if you allow for weak function, there are long broad plains connecting many areas of function. Moose Dr: Do you concede that overlapping islands are necessary for RM+NS in all but the rarest of cases? No, because new protein folds are not that unusual, even in random sequences. Given modification of working proteins, the odds are even better.Zachriel
November 24, 2014
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Moose Dr 22
I believe that Dembski’s No Free Lunch theorem goes on to postulate that CSI cannot be produced by RM+NS. This latter argument seems rather compelling. However it can only be made if CSI is defined as above, not if it is defined as quoted elsewhere.
Where do you mean "defined as above" - or better yet, what is the definition you're referring to?Silver Asiatic
November 24, 2014
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I don't think I've ever criticized Dembski's definition of complexity. It was probably different back in 1973 though. Seems likely.Learned Hand
November 24, 2014
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Learned Hand with yet another biting criticism:
The whole conversation shows how Dembski thinks of “complexity” as a function of probability, which is nowhere in any snip, excerpt, or paraphrase of Orgel’s work I’ve ever seen.
Complexity is generally used to characterize something with many parts where those parts interact with each other in multiple ways. The study of these complex linkages is the main goal of complex systems theory.
In physical systems, complexity is a measure of the probability of the state vector of the system.
It was probably different back in 1973 though.Mung
November 24, 2014
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Zachriel (21), I generally agree with you that the specificity of a specification is important. It needs to be measured and factored in. In this forum I believe I have seen a term like "island of function". This idea that a particular protein, while being a very specific implementation, may dwell on an island. Any variation that maintains its status as being on that island would leave it capable of the function it currently does. Ie, there is flexibility. Sometimes the islands are huge -- there is a lot of flexibility. Sometimes the islands are very small -- not much flexibility at all. The larger the island, the less value should be provided for "complexity". In comments on previous threads, I have shown an algorithm for precisely quantifying complexity in bits, and quantifying the effect of this lack of precision. Now, Zachriel, I would concede that if all proteins resided on overlapping islands, RM+NS could, in theory produce them all. So if there is a mathematical union between protein island with function A and protein island with function B, then one protein (within the union) could perform both functions. At that point gene duplication could quite readily produce separate proteins for function A and B. However, I do not believe that such a clean overlapping exists. I believe that Dembski is saying that if ever DNA must swim between islands, it is swimming in the infinite sea. If it is swimming in the infinite sea, it has not better chance than a random search in finding another island to land on. Do you concede that overlapping islands are necessary for RM+NS in all but the rarest of cases? (One might pretend, though Dembski argues otherwise, that the random search might just find another island.)Moose Dr
November 24, 2014
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There has been a lot of squibbling lately about Dembski's definition of specified complexity, or CSI. The primary question is whether the conclusion is part of the definition. Other quotes of Dembski seem to imply that Dembski defines CSI as "not of unguided source". This component has been rightly recognised by some as producing a circular argument. The Dembskian definition provided here is really rather acceptable. I believe that Dembski's No Free Lunch theorem goes on to postulate that CSI cannot be produced by RM+NS. This latter argument seems rather compelling. However it can only be made if CSI is defined as above, not if it is defined as quoted elsewhere.Moose Dr
November 24, 2014
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The specification can determine the specificity. For instance, proteins often vary considerably in functionality, and we normally set a degree of function as part of the specification. If we accept low functionality, then the sequence may only be weakly specified. If we insist on a highly optimized function, then the sequence will also be highly specified. Selection and replication can optimize function, so it shows how specified complexity (as generally construed) can evolve.Zachriel
November 24, 2014
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Silver Asiatic:
Is it true that Dembski included in the definition of CSI that it had a low probability of having been caused by natural forces?
No. Dembski said that to infer intelligent design we must eliminate necessity and chance.Joe
November 24, 2014
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LoL! CSI exists regardless of what caused it. It's just that the only known cause is an intelligent agency.Joe
November 24, 2014
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Yeah, you would have to know how likely it was to come about through a source other than design to calculate CSI.Learned Hand
November 24, 2014
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Is it true that Dembski included in the definition of CSI that it had a low probability of having been caused by natural forces? I haven't studied his work and always assumed that CSI was a quantitative measure of information identified before any probability analysis took place. 1. CSI has these characteristics (specification, complexity, communicative, functional, coding, organizational, etc) to a certain degree of measurement. 2. We observe these characteristics 3. Therefore, we observe CSI 4. We now determine the origin of CSI via the probability that it originated by natural sources The fact that it is always low probability does not mean we define CSI by that feature. We defined CSI in step 1, then observed it in 2, then analyzed probabilities of its origin later. Apparently, my understanding is wrong according to Dembski's view. Analysis of the origin of the CSI, and the low-probability of natural origin is part of the definition of what CSI is -- true?Silver Asiatic
November 24, 2014
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R0bb:
How about your example from a few weeks ago: 500 coins, all heads, and therefore a highly ordered pattern. What would Orgel say — complex or not?
It depends if Orgel understood probability theory as probability is a complexity measurement.Joe
November 24, 2014
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Maybe I'm just thick. LH quotes: “Yes, Orgel used the term more loosely than Dembski, but they are talking about the same concept.” And this he takes to mean they are not talking about the same concept. Where else but here at UD...Mung
November 24, 2014
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An object, event, or structure exhibits specified complexity if it is both complex (i.e., one of many live possibilities)... You mean we can't just go by whatever we can imagine? Trillions and trillions of of made up possibilities.Mung
November 24, 2014
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Barry:
Dembski: A long sequence of randomly strewn Scrabble pieces is complex without being specified. A short sequence spelling the word “the” is specified without being complex. A sequence corresponding to a Shakespearean sonnet is both complex and specified. Orgel: Mixtures of random polymers are complex without being specified. Crystals such as granite are specified without being complex. Living organisms are both complex and specified.
How about your example from a few weeks ago: 500 coins, all heads, and therefore a highly ordered pattern. What would Orgel say -- complex or not?R0bb
November 24, 2014
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Barry, LH, thanks for the explanation.Collin
November 24, 2014
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I'm a Texan, I prefer firearms metaphors.Learned Hand
November 24, 2014
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LH @ 9. That is correct. The specification does not have to come first temporally as in the arrow/target metaphor. Dembski has used the arrow/target metaphor to elucidate the necessity that that specification be independent.Barry Arrington
November 24, 2014
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In No Free Lunch, Dembski talks about specification needing to be separated from the observation of the function--it doesn't actually have to come first, just not be dependent on the thing being tested. His example on page 289 is the bacterial flagellum. He points out that humans invented outboard motors, which is an independent target for the flagellum to hit even though the flagellum came first.Learned Hand
November 24, 2014
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Collin @ 6. There is a vast literature on the subject. In very very brief summary, the specification in living things is the functional arrangement of many parts; or digitally encoded semiotic information.Barry Arrington
November 24, 2014
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LH @ 4. You seem to be implying that I have backed off of my October 23 and 24 statements. I have not. Orgel and Dembski are talking about exactly the same fundamental concept – living things are characterized by the combination of complexity and specification, which means that neither complexity nor a specification, standing alone, is sufficient to describe living things. Though it is beyond the scope of this post, Orgel and Dembski also agree that the natural forces we observe in action on this planet are almost certainly insufficient to explain the complex specificity seen in living things. And in a sense they both resort to the same alternative explanation: Dembski: intelligent design generally; Orgel: intelligent design by aliens specifically (which is why he was an advocate of directed panspermia). I am glad you have admitted that you have learned something from our exchange.Barry Arrington
November 24, 2014
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Thanks Barry. How do we do that with life?Collin
November 24, 2014
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Collin, Dembski means that when it comes to a specification, we can't draw the target around the arrow. We have to specify the target before we shoot the arrow.Barry Arrington
November 24, 2014
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Barry Arrington on October 23 and 24: "Your next gambit will be: Orgel was talking about something else. Fail. He was talking about exactly the same thing." "He uses the terms complex and specified in exactly the sense Dembski uses the terms." Above, a month later: "Yes, Orgel used the term more loosely than Dembski, but they are talking about the same concept." It's taken a long time to move you just a little bit, but at least you're now in the realm of a reasonable disagreement rather than an outright and obvious mistake. I learned something, you learned something, and it's been a relatively civil discussion (by UD standards). Thanks and you're welcome.Learned Hand
November 24, 2014
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I apologize for asking this. I haven't read Dembski's work. But what does he say is the "independently given pattern"? Are we talking about how DNA is independent of proteins but controls their creation and function?Collin
November 24, 2014
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BA, it seems we must belabour the obvious because -- it more and more seems -- the obvious patently does not point where some wish to go. KF PS: Did n=you notice that to date AFAIK none of the more stringent objectors of recent weeks has actually admitted that FSCO/I exists as a real characteristic of anything? That, when confronted with something as simple and direct as an Abu 6500 C3 fishing reel to date they have studiously avoided it apart from one objector who had the bright idea to say well it has gears in it and we know of only one case of gears in the world of life. Actually, just one case of seriously properly meshed gears should be in itself a wake up call. But the wider manifestations of FSCO/I are all around us -- think, wiring diagram style node arc linkages and organisation that depends on specific configuration to achieve function -- literally (think PC screen and the wider PC not to mention the data strings, programs, keyboards, track pads etc etc) staring us in the face.kairosfocus
November 24, 2014
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Barry Learned hand made it clear, they are not the same because its just opinion, even if it is reasonable. I really struggle with inability some have with the meaning of things.....Andre
November 24, 2014
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