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One Can’t Even Speak as if Materialism Were True

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In a previous post I demonstrated that no sane person acts as if materialism were true.  It later occurred to me that it is impossible to even speak as if materialism were true.

Consider the following statement:

“I believe materialism is true.”

The statement implicitly affirms the following three things that are true only if monist materialism is false:

  1. Subject-object duality. There is a subject (the observer; i.e., the “I” in the statement) who perceives an object (the concept of materialism).
  1. Intentionality. A mental state exists that is directed toward some object.  Bags of chemicals do not have beliefs.
  1. Self-aware subjectivity as a declared reality. It is absurd to say the illusion of myself foisted on me by the chemicals that make up my body has a position regarding the truth of materialism.  The speaker concedes the reality of the subjective self.
Comments
Mung,
Why are materialists so intent on reducing themselves to mere atoms, as if mere atoms are the explanation for anything at all and are themselves not miraculous?
If it were possible to explain humans in terms of just atoms (or even chemicals), that would be a breakthrough, wouldn't it? Regardless of whether atoms or chemicals are miraculous or not.daveS
August 14, 2016
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Why are materialists so intent on reducing themselves to mere chemicals, as if mere chemicals are the explanation for anything at all and are themselves not miraculous?Mung
August 14, 2016
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The simplest bacterium is so damn complicated from the point of view of a chemist that it is almost impossible to imagine how it happened. - Dr. Harold P. KleinMung
August 14, 2016
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Why are materialists so intent on reducing themselves to mere atoms, as if mere atoms are the explanation for anything at all and are themselves not miraculous?Mung
August 14, 2016
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"The difference between a mixture of simple chemicals and and a bacterium is much more profound than the gulf between a bacterium and an elephant" - Dr. Robert ShapiroMung
August 14, 2016
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Perhaps this will help jdk: What is Life?: How Chemistry Becomes Biology Or, perhaps jdk would prefer to remain, in essence, a rock, standing firm, till the end.Mung
August 14, 2016
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UDEditors: Cowardly attempt to derail the discussion deleted.jdk
August 14, 2016
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I am a rock!Mung
August 14, 2016
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JDK, it seems you imply evolutionary materialism. Very well, it seems you face:
Alex Rosenberg as he begins Ch 9 of his The Atheist’s Guide to Reality: >> FOR SOLID EVOLUTIONARY REASONS, WE’VE BEEN tricked into looking at life from the inside. Without scientism, we look at life from the inside, from the first-person POV (OMG, you don’t know what a POV is?—a “point of view”). The first person is the subject, the audience, the viewer of subjective experience, the self in the mind. Scientism shows that the first-person POV is an illusion. [–> grand delusion is let loose in utter self referential incoherence] Even after scientism convinces us, we’ll continue to stick with the first person. But at least we’ll know that it’s another illusion of introspection and we’ll stop taking it seriously. We’ll give up all the answers to the persistent questions about free will, the self, the soul, and the meaning of life that the illusion generates [–> bye bye to responsible, rational freedom on these presuppositions]. The physical facts fix all the facts. [--> asserts materialism, leading to . . . ] The mind is the brain. It has to be physical and it can’t be anything else, since thinking, feeling, and perceiving are physical process—in particular, input/output processes—going on in the brain. We [–> at this point, what we, apart from we delusions?] can be sure of a great deal about how the brain works because the physical facts fix all the facts about the brain. The fact that the mind is the brain guarantees that there is no free will. It rules out any purposes or designs organizing our actions or our lives [–> thus rational thought and responsible freedom]. It excludes the very possibility of enduring persons, selves, or souls that exist after death or for that matter while we live.>>
This is just one of many ways of putting this issue. Your answer is: ________________________ ? Thanks in advance, KFkairosfocus
August 14, 2016
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jdk says chemicals can have beliefs. I welcome his comments. They demonstrate the lunacy to which materialism drives people.Barry Arrington
August 14, 2016
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Of course there are essential differences. The whole world is made of chemicals, but obviously there are also differences. This statements depends, of course, on your criteria for essential.jdk
August 14, 2016
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There is no essential difference between jdk, a machine, and a rock. If only we had more rocks posting here! Get on that Barry, please?Mung
August 14, 2016
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jdk: I (my entire being) am made of chemicals and function because of chemical reactions. Is there some reason the same cannot be said of a machine, or a rock?Mung
August 14, 2016
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I'll be more specific. I (my entire being) am made of chemicals and function because of chemical reactions.jdk
August 14, 2016
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What does it even mean to be "essentially chemical"? Seems like a vacuous claim to me.Mung
August 14, 2016
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Wrong. You just assume a bunch of stuff about what the "self" if and then draw conclusions based on your assumptions. I am a integrated biological being, essentially chemical, and I have beliefs. You just can't see any possible other philosophical perspectives other than your own. Deeply entrenched beliefs, I think.jdk
August 14, 2016
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