Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Perfect architectures which scream design

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(Adapted from a discussion at Evolution and Design and from material in Trevors and Abel’s peer-reviewed paper, Chance and necessity do not explain the origin of life, featured in Cell Biology International, 2004.)

The Explanatory Filter in ID literature outlines a textbook method for detecting design. If one finds a physical artifact, the artifact is inferred to be designed if the features in question are not explainable by naturalistic explanations, namely:

1. natural law, or
2. chance

(I will explain later why I define “naturalistic explanations” this way.)

However, two objections often arise:

A. How can we be sure we won’t make some discovery in the future that will invalidate the design inference?

B. How can we be sure we’ve eliminated all possible naturalistic causes, particularly since we have so few details of what happened so long ago when no one was around?

Answer: We can be sure if we are dealing with the right kind of design, a perfect architecture to communicate design! The right kind of design will negate objections raised by questions A and B.

I must admit at first, A and B seemed impossible for finite humans like us to answer. I mean, after all, would we not have to be All-Knowing to answer such questions? However, there is mathematical tool known as Proof by Contradiction which allows finite humans to give accurate descriptions about issues that deal with an infinitely large number of objects.

It is rumored that the first recorded application of Proof by Contradiction was so heretical to the Greeks that they executed the mathematician who first applied it successfully (see The Square Root of 2). Let us then use this heretical tool to allow us to answer A and B without knowing everything.

What then is an example of a perfect architecture which resists natural law and chance explanations? Answer: self-replicating computer systems (Turing machines) and/or the first living organism. A peer-reviewed article on this very topic by Trevors and Abel in the journal, Cell International, is available here: Chance and necessity do not explain the origin of life.

Rather than quote the entire article, let me give their explanation for why any natural law we are aware of, or any natural law we might possibly discover in the future, would not explain living organisms (the same is true of self-replicating computer systems, which living cells happen to be also):

Natural mechanisms are all highly self-ordering. Reams of data can be reduced to very simple compression algorithms called the laws of physics and chemistry. No natural mechanism of nature reducible to law can explain the high information content of genomes. This is a mathematical truism, not a matter subject to overturning by future empirical data. The cause-and-effect necessity described by natural law manifests a probability approaching 1.0. Shannon uncertainty is a probability function (−log2 p). When the probability of natural law events approaches 1.0, the Shannon uncertainty content becomes miniscule (−log2 p = −log2 1.0 = 0 uncertainty). There is simply not enough Shannon uncertainty in cause-and-effect determinism and its reductionistic laws to retain instructions for life. Prescriptive information (instruction) can only be explained by algorithmic programming. Such DNA programming requires extraordinary bit measurements often extending into megabytes and even gigabytes. That kind of uncertainty reflects freedom from law-like constraints.

The above is an example of using Proof by Contradiction. It is in no way an “argument from ignorance” (too use a tired old phrase by the anti-IDsts).

The rest of the paper gives an explanation why chance cannot be factor as it relates to pre-biotic chemistry and information science.

It is not reasonable to expect hundreds to thousands of random sequence polymers to all cooperatively self-organize into an amazingly efficient holistic metabolic network. The spontaneous generation of long sequences of DNA out of sequence space (Ω) does have the potential to include the same sequences as genetic information. But there is no reason to suspect that any instructive biopolymer would isolate itself out of Ω and present itself at the right place and time.

Even if all the right primary structures (digital messages) mysteriously emerged at the same time from Ω, “a cell is not a bag of enzymes”. And, as we have pointed out several times, there would be no operating system to read these messages.

Without selection of functional base sequencing at the covalent level, no biopolymer would be expected to meet the needs of an organizing metabolic network. There is no prescriptive information in random sequence nucleic acid. Even if there were, unless a system for interpreting and translating those messages existed, the digital sequence would be unintelligible at the receiver and destination. The letters of any alphabet used in words have no prescriptive function unless the destination reading those words first knows the language convention.

The question then arises, how about some combination of chance and necessity, a mechanism like natural selection. Well in addition to the fact one may not have a viable reproducing organism to even begin to have natural selection do it’s work, the Displacement Theorem shows why such a mechanism is even more remote than chance as an explanation. Thus, combinations of natural law and chance are also rejected as explanations.

We thus have, in the first life, something, that by definition resists naturalistic origins. It is not a matter of ignorance that this conclusion is arrived at, it is a matter of a mathematical Proof by Contradiction. If one assumes naturalistic origins for life, one eventually runs into a logical impossibility, which demonstrates the assumption of naturalistic origins was incorrect to begin with.

Lest I be accused of equivocation of the word “naturalistic”, let me point out if that if by naturalistic one means no involvement by the supernatural, that results in a either a meaningless definition (beautifully described by Mark Perakh on the supernatural and science) or a metaphysical definition (i.e., naturalistic = “anything except ID or God”). In either case, such a definition of “naturalistic” is scientifically meaningless.

In contrast, the definition for naturalistic that I gave above is consistent with the concept of naturalistic in ID literature, and further, such a definition is scientifically meaningful versus a metaphysical definition (naturalistic = “anything except ID or God”).

There is perhaps the hypothetical chance we have a non-natural, but also non-ID explanation for the first living organism. Such an explanation, given that it does not proceed from a natural law or chance would not be in principle testable, thus it too would fall outside materialist definitions of science. But this is an intolerable situation for materialist “science” because in that case, the explanation for life would still fall outside of their self-contradictory definition of science, and thus life, at least in their conception, would of necessity have an unscientific cause!

One might argue the possibility of a non-natural, non-ID cause negates the ID inference as well. But in such case I appeal to other factors:

1. We have examples of agents, namely humans, which can make comparable artifacts, thus the inference is at least consistent with an intelligence that is willing to behave in a human-like manner

2. If all else fails, we can point out the laws of physics strongly suggest the existence of an Ultimate Intelligence.

Thus really, a non-ID cause becomes less and less plausible.

I hope this essay has helped illustrate why life is a perfect architecture to communicate design!

Salvador

Comments
Ok, I get your drift. But isn't that a calculation of one particular hunk of material becoming alive? Wouldn't you have to multiply that times all the hunks of material in the universe? The universe is pretty darned big, so by that reasoning, it almost seems like it would equal out to 1/1, which would mean that life would not only probably happen, but it would almost HAVE to happen "accidently". Not that that rules out design, just that it doesn't seem like it rules out random chance, either. Sorry if I'm missing something, I'm just trying to get an idea here. (I'm blonde, whatdaya want?) Thanks again, by the way, for taking so much of your time to explain this to me. It's really very kind. JanieBellejaniebelle
July 6, 2006
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I do think we may find traces of life outside of Earth. But that would not invalidate the design hypothesis. Salvadorscordova
July 6, 2006
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Ok, Salvador. I think I’ve got it now.
Wonderful! (By the way, I cleaned up some of my typos, in case you want to re-read what I wrote 10 minutes ago).
“Exactly how unlikely is unlikely?” And this paper is going to tell us that. Right? JanieBelle
The paper only hints at how difficult, and gives a long list of references of where to get an answer. I think everyone here at UD can give you their idea of how improbable it is, but it's pretty improbable. But in general, given the complexity of even the most minimum life, the chances life arose in one random attempt are worse than 1 in 3.27 x 10^150 (10^150 means 1 followed by 150 zeros which is more than all the sub atomic particles in the universe and all the possible ways they could reasonably interact since the beginning of time). In fact that estimate is too optimistic, the odds are probably far worse. Given the such odds for one attempt, even if one had many attempts, it still would not be enough even if one were using all the resources of the univirse since the beginning of time. To give you an idea of how this is calculated, if you flip a coin, what's the chance it could be heads? Answer: 1 / 2 If you filp two coins together, what's the chance both coins would be heads? Answer : 1 / 4 If you filp three coins together, what's the chance all three coins would be heads? Answer : 1 / 8 How do I figure this out? There are canned formulas for this, but to illustrate if you have 20 coins, then to get the probability, take 2 and raise it to the 20th power and divide into 1. Thus if you flip 20 coins together, what's the chance all 20 will be heads? 1 / 2^20 or 1 / 1,048,576 If you would like to see for yourself, try flippin 20 coins randomly and you see they don't all show heads simulataneously very often (if at all)! By way of extension we can do this with 500 coins, and the chance all are heads through a random process is : 1 / some monster number the monster number is approximately 3.27 x 10^150 That is the probability of finding 500 coins being all heads in one flip. 500 coins (or parts) is not that much compared to the number of parts needed in the simplest life form. A minimal life form may have thousands of necessary atomic parts. The calculations are not quite so simple in the case of life (since there may be more than one way to structure life), but the calculation can still be done, albeit a bit more carefully. I hope this gives you the general idea of how these calculations are done. The chances life arose as part of some cosmic accident seems pretty remote. If you think this world (despite it's problems) is not an accident, then you would be in agreement with what the numbers are telling us. If you would like to learn more, I suggest the videos which you can view online by following the links: https://uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/882 Salvadorscordova
July 6, 2006
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Oops! == frozen/dormant phase ==Farshad
July 6, 2006
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"In other words, just because one cannot provide a naturalistic explanation for the origin of something today is literally no guarantee that such information cannot eventually be discovered and applied in a naturalistic explanation." If there was a naturalistic explanation for OOL then there would be a positive progress towards it, however what we see is either no progress or actually a negative progress in OOL researchs. As other commenters emphasized above finding a naturalistic explanation is not a matter of time when actually there is none. If we find a cow over the moon surface and expect to find a naturalistic explanation of how a cow can jump from earth and land over the moon, giving more and more time will not bring a resolution to this problem because the whole idea is based on a flawed logic. The other (and the best) alternative is looking for an intelligent cause for the transportation for example a spaceship. NASA has sent some probes to the Mars and there is a chance that a few bacteria might have travelled along with the probe and reached the Mars surface. Now assume those bacterias will be conserved in a freezed/dormant phase and in a far future somehow Mars will gain a convenient condition for life and those bacterias will become active and populate the Mars surface. In this case the OOL on Mars will not be as a result of chemical evolution.Farshad
July 6, 2006
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Ok, Salvador. I think I've got it now. So the next question seems pretty obvious... "Exactly how unlikely is unlikely?" And this paper is going to tell us that. Right? JanieBellejaniebelle
July 6, 2006
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Ok, silly example time:

JanieBelle’s law: A flipped quarter will land flat. (Compare to Newton)
Mung’s law: A flipped quarter will land on heads about half the time, and tails about half the time. (Compare to Einstein)

If we flip the coin a zillion times, and it lands on heads or tails, we’re all good. But if the zillion and first time we flip the coin, and it disappears, we’re up a creek.

It’s not perfect, but that’s the drift.

Now I thought that what Salvador was saying was that the guys who wrote the paper up above there had figured out a way, not to prove design necessarily, but to disprove natural evolution by random chance. I’m not sure how to work that into my silly example, but there ya’ go.

You're close.

Statement 1:

What has been shown is that those who assert evolution by random chance will never be able to even make a mathematically reasonable case that they are right any more than they will have the chance of finding square circles. That claim is airghtight.

Statement 2:

What is not airtight, but a least reasonable, is that evolution by random chance did not happen.

Statement 1 and statement 2 are not the same. Let me give you an illustration. You have a very large box with 500 coins in it. You can't see the coins in the box. You shake the box vigorously at 4:20 pm Eastern Time on July 6, 2006 and set it down. Then at 4:30 pm you shake the box again and set it down. If Richard Dawkins came along and said, "after you shook the box at 4:20pm, all the coins were heads" Would you believe him? Well, given that you have shaken the box again at 4:30 pm there is no way to possibly know is there? That corresponds to statement 1, Richard Dawkins, in other words is making things up which can not possibly be proven by any scientific means in the given situation!

However, if the IDers came along and said, "JanieBelle, it's very unlikely random chance made all those 500 coins heads when you shook the box at 4:20pm", you would hopefully think they had a more reasonable (but not completely airtight) case. That corresponds to statement 2.

The paper focuses mainly on what corresponds to statement 1, but it gives hints of statement 2.

Salvador

scordova
July 6, 2006
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Mike1962 wrote: I suspect DNA appears deceptively simple to a lot of biologists because they are used to thinking about it in terms of strands of nucleotides. They may not say it, but they may intuit that since it’s just a long strand of nucleotides, unguided nature should “easily” be able to arrange and rearrange to produce the biological complexity we observer, given “enough time.” However, engineers and information scientists know better. Software is king here, and that’s were the devil (or God) is. This sort of thread is what I like to see the most on ID forums.
Thank you for the feedback. I've mentioned the Displacement theorem and thus a followup to describe the Displacement Theorem in English would be useful. "No Free Lunch, The Displacement Theorem, and the Disproof of Square Circles" Expecting that the origin of life problem or the problem of large scale biological complexity will ever be solved through the exploration of purely naturalistic mechanisms is like saying there possibly exists square circles in Euclidean geometry, or that the square root of two is rational. The naturalistic origins of life and large scale biological complexity frame the scientific exploration in a way that can not possibly succeed. Trevors stated it well regarding of natural deterministic laws:
No natural mechanism of nature reducible to law can explain the high information content of genomes. This is a mathematical truism, not a matter subject to overturning by future empirical data.
Extending this to combinations of chance and law are the next step, and that involves the Displacement Theorem. If I may add and clarify, I'm actually with BarryA and DaveScot, ID can not formally be proven, but it can be shown to be reasonable. However, what can be proven is that ID's fiercest opponents have been searching for square circles all their lives. Salvadorscordova
July 6, 2006
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Allen MacNeill: I am going to assume that you are not willfully misrepresenting ID, and that you genuinely believe that the explanatory filter depends on being logically CERTAIN that no naturalistic explanation is, or ever will be, sufficient to account for all the complex phenomena in biology. I have personally met many people who seem genuinely to harbor these misconceptions. ID is probabalistic. It is an inference about the BEST available explanation for observed phenomena based NOT on ignorance ( like some law which could concievably be out there in operation which we haven't noticed yet ) but instead based upon positive knowledge about the types of things which are designed by conscious intelligent agents. As Biology advances and uncovers greater and greater levels of complexity, the antique idea that chance and necessity wrought all of this becomes more and more IMprobable , while the idea that some intelligent agency acted to bring about this complexity becomes more and more probable.tinabrewer
July 6, 2006
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"Indeed, it is precisely because scientific reasoning cannot “prove” anything that ID theory is NOT science. ____________________________________- In that case, what IS science?avocationist
July 6, 2006
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It should be pointed out that, although science can’t prove stuff with 100% certainty, it can come to reasonable and convincing conclusions. We can assert with virtual certainty that no one will ever be able to make a perpetual-motion machine, because the law of conservation of energy won’t permit it. Now, it is possible that there is some undiscovered natural law that allows energy to be had for free, but there is no reason to believe this, so we should not feign agnosticism about making perpetual-motion machines while we wait to discover this fantastic new law of nature. It seems to me that the same applies to the origin of life and biological information. Natural laws and chance, both empirically and analytically, have been shown to be inadequate to the task of spontaneously generating life and new, complex biological information. Based on the best, currently-available evidence and analysis, natural law and chance represent the wrong explanatory category altogether for the phenomena in question. We do know of one thing that is up to the task of generating information, however, and that is intelligence, so this should represent the most reasonable inference, at least for now, while we wait to discover some enigmatic and heretofore undetectable natural process that is up to the task.GilDodgen
July 6, 2006
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Oh BS Salvador, stop sucking up. If Allen had done his scholarship he would know he is misrepresenting ID. I prefer to think that he has not done his scholarship over the alternative, which is that he has and his misrepresentations are deliberate.
hehe, Mung... I'm going to go a step further and suggest that if people would do their scholarship and combine it with intellectual honesty, we'd have more ID proponents than we'd know what to do with.Scott
July 6, 2006
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Whoa, BACK UP. "Y'all done just flew off to Tahiti and left me sittin' at Port Columbus." (My mom says that.) I'll try to see if I understand all this, feel free to set me straight if I misunderstand. First, I almost missed Dave's comment to my comment way back up yonder there. Dave's point (extended by Dennis) is that science never proves anything 100%. Like how Newton had gravity right, but Einstein had it "righter". I get that. Newton had a close approximation of how the planets move, but there was a small problem with Mercury's position, if I remember that right. It had something to do with being really close to something really big. Once Einstein came along, he figured out some of what was wrong, and now we understand gravity better, and Einstein's laws work for Mercury and all the places where Newton's laws work, but Einstein's laws break down in a black hole. Someday, someone will figure out a law that's even "righter" than Einstein's laws, but they'll never be perfect. Is that right? But if we came across one example where a planet didn't obey Newton's laws approximately, then that would disprove Newton's laws, and we'd have to start all over. Right? Ok, silly example time: JanieBelle's law: A flipped quarter will land flat. (Compare to Newton) Mung's law: A flipped quarter will land on heads about half the time, and tails about half the time. (Compare to Einstein) If we flip the coin a zillion times, and it lands on heads or tails, we're all good. But if the zillion and first time we flip the coin, and it disappears, we're up a creek. It's not perfect, but that's the drift. Now I thought that what Salvador was saying was that the guys who wrote the paper up above there had figured out a way, not to prove design necessarily, but to disprove natural evolution by random chance. I'm not sure how to work that into my silly example, but there ya' go. Am I with you so far?janiebelle
July 6, 2006
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Thank you for offering your scholarship on these issues.
Oh BS Salvador, stop sucking up. If Allen had done his scholarship he would know he is misrepresenting ID. I prefer to think that he has not done his scholarship over the alternative, which is that he has and his misrepresentations are deliberate.Mung
July 6, 2006
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From Trevors and Abel:
Shannon uncertainty is a probability function (−log2 p). When the probability of natural law events approaches 1.0, the Shannon uncertainty content becomes miniscule (−log2 p = −log2 1.0 = 0 uncertainty).
From post 35:
Trevors was not referring to stochasticity, but to deterministic regularities.
In that case, p=1, so the probability does not approach 1, it is 1. The difference may be subtle, but it tells us that Trevors and Abel are referring to stochasticity, somewhere.
Right there in the paragraph I quoted from the paper. The proof is not that hard (compared to other proofs, like say Fermat’s theorem), it’s perhaps the difficulty of accepting it.
There's no proof: it's all just assertion. *ahem* Just like my last sentence. OK, the main assertion is this:
There is simply not enough Shannon uncertainty in cause-and-effect determinism and its reductionistic laws to retain instructions for life.
And you write:
The variables in the statement of the law have UNSPECIFIED value. Can such a law in and of itself, or any combination of similar laws with UNSPECIFIED variables (boundary conditions), reduce the uncertainty of whether the coin is heads or tails at some point in time? Absolutely not.
Something which is wrong, and why it's wrong explains the problem with Trevors and Abel. If we do not know the boundary conditions, then we can gived them a prior distribution, and from that calculate the probability of the coin being heads or tails. The uncertainty enters through the uncertainty in the boundary conditions (i.e. the inputs), rather than the deterministic mechanisms. If one believes that the universe is deterministic (as Trevors and Abel appear to), then I think you have to apply this reasoning to any statement about uncertainty: in other words if you want to use Shannon information, then you have to assume that there is something non-deterministic in teh system, and it's either the process itself, or the inputs. BobBob OH
July 6, 2006
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"A computer factory and all the supportive factories are more complex than the computer itself, etc." This is only necessarily true if you take into account the software that runs the factory. I suspect DNA appears deceptively simple to a lot of biologists because they are used to thinking about it in terms of strands of nucleotides. They may not say it, but they may intuit that since it's just a long strand of nucleotides, unguided nature should "easily" be able to arrange and rearrange to produce the biological complexity we observer, given "enough time." However, engineers and information scientists know better. Software is king here, and that's were the devil (or God) is. This sort of thread is what I like to see the most on ID forums.mike1962
July 6, 2006
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Sergeant Springer--"We can never prove there is no other possible way. We can’t rule out things we don’t know about and we can’t know everything. Fortunately for us science doesn’t work by proving things. Science is about the best explanation. Explanations are always tentative and subject to revision or rejection upon newly discovered contrary data." So true. Only you haven't gone far enough. I have lost track of how many times I have read something a scientist wrote that basically says: No amount of evidence, no matter how massive, can ever 'prove' a theory. But it only takes a single piece of evidence, a single counter example, no matter how small, to disprove one. Completely. Totally. Unequivocally. ID provides that evidence and certainly not in small quantities. Yours, D.Greydennis grey
July 6, 2006
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Allen, Thank you for offering your scholarship on these issues. I am not a philosopher of science, but it seems to me, that statements that can be demonstrated to be logically incoherent or contradictory (such as saying there exists a square circle, or that the square root of 2 is rational) should not be allowed to be incorporated into empirical or theoretical science. Whether ID can be defined as science is a good issue to discuss, but it largely is a question I do not delve into. However, I think questions of logical coherency in existing scientific theories is fair game. I would welcome your thoughts. Salvadorscordova
July 6, 2006
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Bob OH raised good questions, and that is why I am taking time to try to respond. The matter is one of clarifying the issues and terminology.

Information is defined as the reduction of uncertainty. For example, let a coin being heads or tails, represent 1 bit.

Take any natural deterministic law (i.e. the approximation known as Newton's sencond law : F=ma is an example of a deterministic law)

The variables in the statement of the law have UNSPECIFIED value. Can such a law in and of itself, or any combination of similar laws with UNSPECIFIED variables (boundary conditions), reduce the uncertainty of whether the coin is heads or tails at some point in time? Absolutely not. The laws therefore are shown incapable of reducing uncertainty in the desired dimension (such as heads or tails), and thus are incapable of creating the very information we are trying to assert.

Salvador

scordova
July 6, 2006
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Francis Bacon in his Novum Organum (one of the foundations of modern science; see: The New Organon) was the first to point out that science can't "prove" anything (in the strict formal/logical sense), showing that inductive reasoning is fundamentally limited to erecting tentative (albeit useful) generalizations that are always subject to revision and/or replacement. This situation hasn’t changed since Bacon’s time, as Karl Popper (in The Logic of Scientific Discovery and other works exhaustively pointed out that positive evidence for an hypothesis in no way constitutes a formal/logical “proof” of that hypothesis. However, negative evidence against a hypothesis does indeed constitute formal/logical “proof” against it, requiring that it be modified or replaced. This is why science is always changing, unlike purely formal/logical disciplines like geometry (non-Euclidian geometry notwithstanding, as it is based on an alternative starting axiom concerning parallel lines, axioms being "unprovable" by definition). That this should be the case is simply the result of a fundamental (and irreducible) characteristic of inductive reasoning: unlike deductive reasoning, it cannot possibly “prove” any hypothesis in an absolute sense. I have recently posted much more extensively on this subject at The Evolution List (see "Identity, Analogy, and Logical Argument in Science"), and recommend anyone interested in this topic to read Bacon, Popper, Kuhn, Feyerabend, and Lakatos (just Google the names, along with "science") on the logical impossibility of “proving” scientific hypotheses. Indeed, it is precisely because scientific reasoning cannot “prove” anything that ID theory is NOT science. Both Michael Behe’s concept of “irreducible complexity” and William Dembski’s concept of “complex specified information” are based on the logic of elimination (aka "logical exclusion" a la the "explanatory filter"). That is, they depend on being certain that one has eliminated natural causes for the origin of complex biological objects and processes, thereby logically requiring an alternative hypothesis (i.e. that such objects and processes must have been “intelligently designed”). But, if standard scientific inference using induction cannot possibly “prove” anything, then the logical elimination of natural causes is quite literally excluded as a logical operation. In other words, just because one cannot provide a naturalistic explanation for the origin of something today is literally no guarantee that such information cannot eventually be discovered and applied in a naturalistic explanation. Therefore, applying the ID concepts of IC and CSI should only be done as a last resort (once all possible naturalistic explanations have been tested and invalidated), as they depend fundamentally on the kind of comprehensive logical elimination that inductive reasoning absolutely prohibits.Allen_MacNeill
July 6, 2006
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I like analogies and hypotheticals, silly simple ones. They work for me.
Indeed, I could not agree more, I am the same way. I like to start out flipping coins, lol. Simple binary for me. But let's keep in mind that ID is an inference to the best explanation and not an argument from analogy. DS bring up some good points that I should have incorporated into my own presentation. All I gave was a statement about a reasonable inference, when I should have compared with other explanations so that we have in inference to the best explanation. Design is better explanation than regularity or law, because... Design is better explanation than chance, because... Design is a better explanation than some interaction of chance and law, because...Mung
July 6, 2006
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Bob objected:

Certainly not with Shannon information: there can be quite enough stochasiticty in a system as large as the earth.

Trevors was not referring to stochasticity, but to deterministic regularities. Natural law in this case refers to deterministic laws, one may object that it was not sufficienctly clear in my essay, and that can easily be amended, law in this sense, is deterministic.

In like manner, trying explain life in terms of natural law is also a non-sensical quest. However, to actually demonstrate this mathematically is not so easy. That’s what Trevors did.

Right there in the paragraph I quoted from the paper. The proof is not that hard (compared to other proofs, like say Fermat's theorem), it's perhaps the difficulty of accepting it.

But elaborating what it actually says might be helpful.

Recall a deterministic natural law is represented with variables and unspecified boundary conditions, such as:

F = ma

F = force

m = mass

a = acceleration

There are other examples.

If one has 1 iron coin, and let this represent a bit, with unspecified boundary conditions (such as a description of the magnetic and gravitational fields acting on it and the initial, final, and intervening boundary conditions such as initial position, velocity, atmospheric properties, etc.) does one have sufficient information to describe the outcome? answer: Absolutely not!

Hence Natural law (deterministic law) alone is not sufficient to give an account of even 1 bit of information in one iron coin. By mathematical induction, this is true of any other object. Trevors demonstrates that appeals to purely any form of a natural law in the absence of boundary conditions is a category error, much like looking for square circles.

Salvador

scordova
July 6, 2006
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Some words from Wm. Dembski:
The prospect that further knowledge will upset a design inference poses a risk for the Explanatory Filter. But it is a risk endemic to all of scientific inquiry. Indeed, it merely restates the problem of induction, namely, that we may be wrong about the regularities (be they probabilistic or necessitarian) which operated in the past and apply in the present.
When the Explanatory Filter fails to detect design in a thing, can we be sure no intelligent cause underlies it? The answer to this question is No. For determining that something is not designed, the Explanatory Filter is not a reliable criterion. False negatives are a problem for the Explanatory Filter. This problem of false negatives, however, is endemic to detecting intelligent causes. One difficulty is that intelligent causes can mimic law and chance, thereby rendering their actions indistinguishable from these unintelligent causes. It takes an intelligent cause to know an intelligent cause, but if we don't know enough, we'll miss it.
That is why it is called a design inference. And it is also why further investigation is usually carried out- research that can either confirm or refute that inference. Note to Bob- when discussing ID Shannon's information is useless because it does not care about meaning or content; usefulness and value are also irrelevant. Also talikng about "natural" can be misleading as both intelligence and design are natural- ie they exist in nature...Joseph
July 6, 2006
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Can these laws then explain how life came about? After all, they explain so many other things in the world? The answer is “no”.
I disagree: I don't see how you can prove this. Certainly not with Shannon information: there can be quite enough stochasiticty in a system as large as the earth. And the Displacement Theorem isn't relevant, unless it's to prove that intelligent causes don't work. The beauty of evolution by natural selection is that you don't need to search for the fitness function: it's a part of the physical system.
In like manner, trying explain life in terms of natural law is also a non-sensical quest. However, to actually demonstrate this mathematically is not so easy. That’s what Trevors did.
Where? BobBob OH
July 5, 2006
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Re: Mung @24 ("Hypothesis, test, revise..."):
[W]herever there are complex masses of phenomena to be inquired into, whether they be phenomena of the affairs of daily life, or whether they belong to the more abstruse and difficult problems laid before the philosopher, our course of proceeding in unravelling that complex chain of phenomena with a view to get at its cause, is always the same; in all cases we must invent an hypothesis; we must place before ourselves some more or less likely supposition respecting that cause; and then, having assumed an hypothesis, having supposed a cause for the phenomena in question, we must endeavour, on the one hand, to demonstrate our hypothesis, or, on the other, to upset and reject it altogether, by testing it in three ways. We must, in the first place, be prepared to (1) prove that the supposed causes of the phenomena exist in nature; that they are what the logicians call vera causæ -- true causes; in the next place, we should be prepared to (2) show that the assumed causes of the phenomena are competent to produce such phenomena as those which we wish to explain by them; and in the last place, we ought to be able to (3) show that no other known causes are competent to produce these phenomena. If we can succeed in satisfying these three conditions we shall have demonstrated our hypothesis; or rather I ought to say we shall have proved it as far as certainty is possible for us; for, after all, there is no one of our surest convictions which may not be upset, or at any rate modified by a further accession of knowledge... it is upon [these] grounds that any hypothesis you choose to name is accepted in science as tenable and valid. --Thomas Henry Huxley, "On Our Knowledge of the Causes of the Phenomena of Organic Nature" (1863) [Numbering and bolface added]
(1) Random variation & natural selection exist in nature. (2) RV+NS cannot generate CSI. (3) It is impossible to show that no other known cause is competent to produce CSI: intelligence can. (1) Intelligence exists in nature. :-) (2) Intelligence can produce complex specified information. :-) (3) There are no other known causes that are competent to produce CSI. :-) (Sorry to interrupt the tutoring.)j
July 5, 2006
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Oh, good. You just answered my next question.

Ok, I’m with you so far.

JanieBelle

Moving on, we have things called natural laws. The most well known example of a natural law is the law of gravity. There are also other natural laws like the laws of magnetism and electricity. Those are perhaps the most familiar to everyday life. There are other natural laws in science such as the relativity, and quantum mechanics, and a few others I probably left out....

We can explain how a ball thrown up into the air will come back down because of gravity. We can take a laws of electricity to explain why when a light switch is off there is no light, and when it's on there is light. Simple enough.

Can these laws then explain how life came about? After all, they explain so many other things in the world? The answer is "no". How about if scientists discover any more laws, can those laws explain life? The answer is still "no".

How can one actually prove this amazing claim? Well....that's where it gets pretty hard, and that's where all the discussion of Shannon uncertainty and proof by contradiction come in.

But to give my best approximation of how this amazing claim is justified, imagine that you have a piece of white paper and only white paint to paint with, could you really draw any pictures (ok, ideally assume the person looking at your work can't actually see the brush strokes, thus no matter what you draw it looks like a blank piece of paper)? How about a black piece of paper and only black paint? Or a blue piece of paper and only blue paint? (One can definitely demonstrate this with a computer paint program.)

When one has the same ink color as the paper color, one has no Shannon uncertainty, the outcome will always be the same! But when one has black ink and white paper, or better yet many colors of ink and white paper, one has the capacity to draw meaningful pictures. That is because having many colors on white paper allows a high degree of Shannon uncertainty.

Using natural laws alone to explain origin of life is like the trying to paint a picture using white ink on white paper. It simply cannot work.

One cannot completely explain the experience of seeing in terms of the experience of hearing. Attempting to do so makes no sense, it is a non-sensical quest. So is the search for square circles.....

In like manner, trying explain life in terms of natural law is also a non-sensical quest. However, to actually demonstrate this mathematically is not so easy. That's what Trevors did.

Salvador

scordova
July 5, 2006
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Oh, good. You just answered my next question. :) Ok, I'm with you so far. JanieBellejaniebelle
July 5, 2006
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Now when we say “first life” are we talking about virus and bacteria “first life” or are we talking about giraffelantopotomus “first life”?

JanieBelle

This is a very good question!

The answer is "whatever form the first life took on". But how do we describe the first life?Formally it must have the following capability:

1. its cells must replicate through a computational process
2. its cells have a fully functional computer (Turing machine)

The first life can surely have more features about it the merely #1 and #2, but those are the bare minimum characteristics to declare it alive. (In formal terms, #1 and #2 are necessary but not sufficient conditions for life.)

Bacteria and the giraffelantopotomus (assuming it's a mammal) have those characteristics in their cells. A virus would not qualify.

Exactly what the first life (or lives) looked like, is beyond the scope of Trevor's paper, but it must have the 2 characteristics I described.

Salvador

scordova
July 5, 2006
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Ok, so we're talking about first life, not later pieces of it. I'm with you. And we're going to use math to rule out natural law, chance, and any combination thereof. gotcha. Now when we say "first life" are we talking about virus and bacteria "first life" or are we talking about giraffelantopotomus "first life"? JanieBellejaniebelle
July 5, 2006
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JanieBelle:

If I understand what Sal is saying in this article (possibly not, big surprise), there is a way by which we can determine that there is no possible way that this big toe evolved. Even if we don’t know every possible way that nature works, we can still determine that there is no possible way for this fancy, complex, giraffelantopotomus big toe to evolve.

Is that it? If it is, then where I’m stuck is in understanding how we go about that.

You are close, and I'm glad you are asking these questions as it will help me in my future presentations of the subject matter.

There are claims in the essay that are "airtight" (mathematically speaking) and then there are claims that are not-quite airtight but would be classified as reasonable.

What are the "airtight claims" about the first life (not a even necessarily having a toe)? They are:

1. natural law alone cannot account for it
2. a chance process alone cannot be proven to account for it
3. a combination of natural law and chance process cannot be proven to account for it

I chose my words very carefully this time, and there are subtleties about them which we can discuss later. The main thing is that the above 3 considerations prevent a scientist who disbelieves ID from ever being able to scientifically disprove ID. A scientist will never be able to demonstrate natural law and chance as the source of the first life.

Let me now state the reasonable but not quite air-tight claim in my essay:

an intelligence was the author of the first life

The claim is not formally air-tight as the 3 statements above, but only reasonable.

Salvador

scordova
July 5, 2006
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