Prayers for Those in Irma’s Path

Bob O'H @36, If Pindi or anybody else writes misleading off-topic nonsense --like his comment @18-- that may confuse some readers of these discussions, I may decide to rebuke it in order to clarify the issue, as I did @20. Your comment @21 was a little off target, as I stated @35, but your comment @36 is completely off target. You don't seem to get it. If Pindi or somebody else writes an off topic comment referring to God that may confuse other readers, I could decide to rebuke it in order to clarify the issue, as long as the moderators of the thread or the website allow me to do so. Next time just tell your comrades to refrain from writing off-topic hogwash referring to God. What you wrote @36 about KF's comment @22 seems to indicate that you may have to read KF's comment @22 again in order to understand it well. KF is a leading voice in this website and his insightful commentaries are worth reading carefully before commenting on them. Dionisio

kairosfocus, I won't pretend to understand what all you are coping with, or pretend it will be easy. I will say that we who wish to identify with Christ's victory, are also called to identify with His suffering. The trials God allows in our lives are one way He makes us like His Son. Like Job and Joseph, you too are in God's care, even though it looks difficult and frightening. Some day, God will explain His hidden purposes to us. Until that day, I would simply encourage you to try to be the best steward of what God has now entrusted into your care, and know that because you didn't plan it or seek, it is what God has intended to use. Take heart in knowing you are on His path, not one of your choosing. Luke 9:51 tells us that knowing what lay ahead, "Jesus steadfastly and determinedly set His face to go to Jerusalem" (Amplified Bible). He wasn't happy in that moment though He knew the Joy awaiting after it was finished. Personally, I find "experiencing joy in trials" to be a concept that so far has eluded me. I simply remind myself that I don't have to like it, I just need to do it; that it doesn't need to be fair, it is simply something God has set for me to overcome. Jesus approached His crucifixion with steadfast determination. We can do no less in our lesser trials. When you wonder (as did Job and Joseph) why do the trials mount, consider that God will use you as an example for others to follow, and that you are drawing the enemy's fire away from other's less equipped to bear up. Charles

Charles, thanks. The rock who was there all my life -- my father -- is gone. Surrendered his spirit to his Lord and left, after a losing fight with the second of two cancers. The second, acute leukaemia, took him out in 3 weeks from diagnosis. Now, I have to be the rock, for many; including leadership duties I don't want but must now bear. With God's strength and grace, I have to do it. It is going to take time to adjust, I need a lot more iron in the soul. And I know exactly what that means, this deep loss and inescapable challenge of rising to the duties of succession are part of the process. KF kairosfocus

*sigh* Dionisio - I was trying to head off a debate on a thread where it didn't seem warranted. You had responded to Pindi, where it might have been better to have just ignored him. What I learned from comment 22 was that this is not the thread for debates. Bob O'H

Bob O'H @21, Your comment seems a little off target. My comment @20 was to clarify the off-topic nonsense written @18, which shows ignorance mixed with an apparent intention to mock. You and the author of the erroneous comment @18 may need to read KF's comment @22 for some serious learning. Dionisio

Charles @32, Agree. Dionisio

KF @22, Excellent commentary. Thank you. Rev 22:21 Dionisio

kairosfocus @ 23

Right now, my confidence in God and in the gospel is bearing me up in the face of a whirlwind of deep personal loss compounded by a surge of responsibilities as executor and — like it or lump it — inherited leadership responsibilities.

Perhaps God has raised you up, for such a time as this. You can do all things through Christ who strengthens you. Charles

A Weather news channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyzJF59t2WE kairosfocus

Live reporting out of Miami: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fc6pdtxzZXo (Looks like it is going to be a hard, hard day.) kairosfocus

Irma looks like hooking up the W coast of Florida. Down to 130, likely back up to 150 when it hits S FL. kairosfocus

Looks to have hooked effectively E of the chain, and to have no spiral bands to the W. KF kairosfocus

The taking of jabs at atheists at times like this would be in poor taste AND impossible because there are plenty of opportunities around here for them to volunteer without involving their local groups, through non-profits and government agencies. And I did this when I went to Nashville and volunteered for flood recovery work in 2010 and likely worked alongside atheists. The coordinating group I worked through was the Metro Beautiful Commission there. My probably crude manner of comment was a rejoinder to the common complaint I see among some of my facebook friends that the world would be a better place without religion and we know the famous guy who says the same. These church people were walking the streets the day after the flood waters went down, asking to be put to work. No government agency can respond like that. These people had plastic tubs, plastic bags, boxes, tools, tarps, water, you name it. I told them I would need them later and they came back on labor day. My appreciation for them was put in probably an ill-advised way, but you get what I mean, these churches are highly flexible fast responding charities like nothing else around, and I get to answer those people preaching the world would be better off without them. groovamos

Looks like Jose is at 150 mph, and it is currently actually heading W with a slow northern trend, at least by the WU reports. Forecast track is NE of the region, let's hope not too close to Irma's track or more West than that. KF kairosfocus

@Pindi, I think that "omniscient, omnipotent" might be an unnecessary hang up for some. Regarding omnipotent, is there something God can't do? Yes. He can't make you love Him. You probably mean it though in terms of why doesn't God end natural suffering -- storms, diseases etc. Suppose He did? Would suffering end? You aren't suggesting He end free will and turn us into robots are you? As long as free will exists there will be cruelty stemming from the certainty that the universe revolves around "me." This is a far greater cause of suffering than nature. Regarding omniscient, I think God hopes to be surprised. If one holds that Jesus is God Incarnate one will find parts in the New Testament indicating that He was. OTOH, I don't think He really was but I like to think that the possibility exists that He can be. tribune7

@ 22 Great points KF. tribune7

PPS: Right now, my confidence in God and in the gospel is bearing me up in the face of a whirlwind of deep personal loss compounded by a surge of responsibilities as executor and -- like it or lump it -- inherited leadership responsibilities. Hope, ultimate hope, makes a difference. PPPS: Let us remember, all worldviews face difficulties, serious ones. This is a key part of why comparative difficulties analysis is so important. And oh yes Jose looks to be heading NE of the region. Folks in Florida, please get out of the way! kairosfocus

Folks, This is not a thread for debates, but this from Boethius as he faced unjust execution on trumped up charges in the post W Roman Empire situation may help:

In his Consolation of Philosophy, Boethius states the following paradox: “If God exists, whence evil? But whence good, if God does not exist?” Boethius contrasts the problem that evil poses for theism with the problem that good poses for atheism. The problem of good does not receive nearly as much attention as the problem evil, but it is the more basic problem. That’s because evil always presupposes a good that has been subverted. All our words for evil make this plain: the New Testament word for sin (Greek hamartia) presupposes a target that’s been missed; deviation presupposes a way (Latin via) from which we’ve departed; injustice presupposes justice; etc. So let’s ask, who’s got the worse problem, the theist or the atheist? Start with the theist. God is the source of all being and purpose. Given God’s existence, what sense does it make to deny God’s goodness? None . . . . The problem of evil still confronts theists, though not as a logical or philosophical problem, but instead as a psychological and existential one [as was addressed above] . . . . The problem of good as it faces the atheist is this: nature, which is nuts-and-bolts reality for the atheist, has no values and thus can offer no grounding for good and evil. As nineteenth century freethinker Robert Green Ingersoll used to say, “In nature there are neither rewards nor punishments. There are consequences.” More recently, Richard Dawkins made the same point: “The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference.” ["Prepared Remarks for the Dembski-Hitchens Debate," Uncommon Descent Blog, Nov 22, 2010]

In short, the sound bridging of the IS-OUGHT gap is a central worldview issue, often with direct personal relevance. Indeed, it may help to read the book, which begins with a shocked, shaken, weeping philosopher visited in a dream by an old tutor, fallen on hard times -- dame Philosophy. We need to remember that there have been very serious theistic thinkers for thousands of years, who have faced grave evil. Indeed, the heart of the Christian gospel pivots on a sobering miscarriage of justice. KF PS: This on the problem of evil may be of help: http://nicenesystheol.blogspot.com/2010/11/unit-2-gospel-on-mars-hill-foundations.html#u2_gdvsevl kairosfocus

OPindi @ 18 (& to a lesser extent Dionisio @20) - tbh, I'm with Mung. I don't think this is the thread to be taking jabs at the Other Side (whichever side they are on). The fewer people who come through these hurricanes the better, regardless of their theological views. Bob O'H

Pindi @18:

Presumably you believe an omniscient, omnipotent being could have done that. Yet he chose not to. I wonder why?

Because He's omnipotent, He can do it. Only He can. Because He's omniscient, He knows why and what for. Only He knows. Because He's sovereign, He does it according to the purpose of His own will, not ours. He can dispose of His own creation as He wishes. We want our prayers to be in line with His will. That's why we want to know Him better and delight in Him forever. Dionisio

KF, Glad to see you're back here. Thanks for the prayers. Dionisio

It seems weird to pray to the entity you believe was responsible for the hurricane in the first place. How about if God just turned the hurricane away so no property got damaged and no one died? Presumably you believe an omniscient, omnipotent being could have done that. Yet he chose not to. I wonder why? Pindi

God, grant first the grace of common sense for people to get or stay out of the way (including my own family in the FL region). Second, help those hurt or suffering losses, especially the grieving. Third, help us to be your hands and feet at this time, and be with decision-makers facing unprecedented threats and problematiques. AMEN kairosfocus

Now pray for the people in Puerto Rico and Florida (like my brother and his family). tribune7

KF: Good to hear from you! :) gpuccio

KF, Great to hear that things are relatively ok there, and I hope that St Maarten and the shipping networks are up and running again soon. daveS

Not a time to be taking jabs at atheists, imo. +prayers Mung

Folks, thanks. Just now on ZJB radio: most of our cargo is trans-shipped via St Marten and Digicel network's Net, Cable TV etc stuff go through Anguilla. Jose, we hope, will swing north. BTW, I seem to recall, Jamaica talked about the year of three hurricanes in C18. In 1951, Carlie was followed by another that thankfully did not hit. In 95 Lois and Marylin hit 8 days apart. Govt here is reluctant to re-open for business, we suspect they are watching Jose. KF kairosfocus

kf - glad to hear you're OK. Hang on when the next one arrives! Bob O'H

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4860396/Irma-hits-Puerto-Rico-damaging-Barbuda-St-Martin.html Watch the wind animation kairosfocus

Kairosfocus @7 Good to hear that you are OK. Origenes

Folks, thanks. We got tropical storm conditions and rain (esp. after the eye passed), but the real damage was Barbuda etc, reportedly 90% of buildings and some deaths. Stories of cars and containers taking flight, suggesting maybe tornadoes within the storm. Today, we should be getting back to normal, power came back latish in the morning yesterday, after a couple of frightening episodes of line shorts due to slackened lines. Jose is coming up behind, let's hope it's a fish hurricane thanks to Coriolis effect with minimal pushing from the Bermuda high etc. I hope those in the onward path of these two are taking them seriously. Looks like this is a killer hurricane year after several years where the jet stream was unfavourable. Thanks again. KF kairosfocus

Yes, I hope kf is OK. It looks like he avoided the worst of Irma, and the maps are suggesting Hurricane Jose will take a right turn just before it hits Monserrat, so with a bit of luck he'll be spared the worst of that too. If any of you are in the path of either of these, I hope you survive them without too much damage or injury. groovamos - I'm glad to hear you got through Harvey without harm. Sorry about your carpet. Bob O'H

Prayers. jorronet

For information overload, check out windy.com. Really what a map should look like. The icons on the right edge are what ya need. gooshy

Irma online News

Thoughts and prayers for all of them, and for our friends. gpuccio

Yours truly didn't lose cell service or power from the flooding here, but I lost internet, possessions, mementos, normal living and a valuable Persian rug. A few days ago 7 members of the new Grace Bible Church in my neighborhood volunteered to help us, and they moved soggy furniture, and ripped out carpet and sheetrock and carried it to the street. Haven't heard anything about volunteer outreach from the Houston Freethinkers or all of the other atheist and humanist groups around. I did an internet search on it without any hits. groovamos