Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Should the Expelled movie have addressed the Holocaust?

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Many of us have heard a wearisome amount of commentary about whether the Expelled film should have – or should not have – dwelt on the Darwin-driven Nazi extermination of “inferior” peoples.

Scholar Richard Weikart, who knows more than anyone alive about the  Nazis and Darwin, writes to say,

The point about showing the social and ethical impact of Darwinism is not to *disprove* Darwinism. However, many people fail to understand that Darwinism necessarily has ethical implications, in ways that other sciences do not, because it makes claims about the origins of morality (at least Darwin in Descent of Man made such claims, as have myriads of Darwinists thereafter).

However, while not disproving Darwinism, pointing out the ethical implications and impacts of Darwinism is nonetheless important, as I have learned from reactions to my book, From Darwin to Hitler, and to lectures I have given. Some individuals have told me that before learning about my work on the intersection of Darwinism and bioethics, they didn’t think Darwinism was all that important—they saw it as irrelevant, a mere intellectual curiosity. Darwinism, however, makes claims about life and death issues—indeed, about the very meaning of life and death (in addition to its claims about the origins of morality). Granted, there are various ways philosophically to try to meet these challenges, but knowing the directions that Darwinism has taken historically can help clarify the philosophical issues, it seems to me. For those who think that the social implications have only been felt by Nazi Germany, get John West’s excellent book, _Darwin Day in America_, where he shows the way that Darwinism has impacted many diverse fields in the US.

I do not disbelieve in Darwinism because of its ethical and social consequences. I disbelieve in Darwinism because it is inconsistent with the available evidence. It simply is not true. Showing that people have been (and are being!!) killed in the name of Darwinism, however, lends poignancy and urgency to exposing the falsehood.

If I did not have any other reason to believe Weikart, I need only look at the rubbish at Wikipedia on the subject.

Surely no one sends their students there? It is nothing but a whitewash of Darwin’s racism and the inevitable consequences of same. It will be instructive to see Barack Obama’s campaign get hold of this stuff and turn it into something really slick.

Meanwhile, key news from the north:

Killer insects and intelligent design

Intellectual freedom in Canada: Friends fear the comics won’t dare be funny in ways that matter

Louisiana Academic Freedom Bill: White lab coats to take refuge behind black law robes?

Was the bison’s peculiar chest a design feature … to help Native North Americans survive?

Intellectual freedom in Canada: … Look out, PC bigots! The True North strong and free is shaking off your chains …

What happens if Darwinism is subjected to natural selection in the Louisiana bayou?

Darwin’s co-founder Wallace accepted intelligent design?

Canadian comics rally for freedom: Let’s
LAUGH Canada’s “human rights” commissions out of existence!

What I think about common descent – answer to a reader’s question

Comments
Interesting re cows and fish, bFast. An experience of pain requires some sort of unitary consciousness, that is, a consciousness of a self that is the subject of experience. Otherwise, the question is, when pain is experienced, what exactly is experiencing the pain? While I don't doubt that most mammals have such a consciousness, I just don't know about fish. I doubt it would be true of insects - or at least their behaviour often seems to suggest that it isn't. This unitary consciousness is not, strictly speaking, the same thing as intelligence or the ability to react to an injury. A creature could be intelligent and reactive, I suppose, without having a sense of a self that is the subject of experience. Now, bFast, you also make the point hat even if evolution be true, it is better to conclude it is not. But are the supposed implications of evolution (common descent?) not largely a matter of social choice? What if you and I discovered we were both descendants of Adolph Hitler? What follows? A life of mass murder? Surely not. When people point to common descent as a justification for, say, abortion, they are offering a culturally palatable holiday from thinking. The notion seems to be "We are just animals, and so ... " Now, let's do a thought experiment: What if common descent were falsified? Wouldn't those same people find another culturally palatable excuse for abortion? Something like, "Alone of all creation, we have the power to choose death ... "? Hey, I've done half their work for them already! Actually, I suspect that most people who treat common descent as an article of materialist religious faith could not give a credible argument for it. They believe it because they hope it justifies such practices as abortion - when it is in fact irrelevant to them.O'Leary
July 12, 2008
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One reason why it was appropriate to present the Darwin-to-Hitler connection is that this connection -- indirect if not direct -- is historical fact. Another reason is that Darwinists have shown that they regard Darwinism as a philosophy of life rather than merely science -- they shamelessly celebrate Darwin Day, use "I love Darwin" items, confer "Friend of Darwin" certificates, celebrate the Lincoln-Darwin birthdate coincidence, etc.. So it is very hypocritical of the Darwinists to complain when some logical consequences of such a philosophy of life are pointed out. I wrote on my blog,
Like a mad scientist in a horror movie, many Darwinists seem to have morbid, sadistic and Strangelovian fascinations with the pernicious social effects of Darwinism. These Darwinists don’t just regard Darwinism as a necessary evil but shamelessly worship Darwin — there are Darwin Day celebrations, “I love Darwin” knick-knacks, “Friend of Darwin” certificates handed out at a reunion of the Dover plaintiffs, etc.. Though I don’t think that being descended from monkeys is anything to be ashamed of, I don’t think that it is cause for celebration, either.
O the following facts need to be recognized in any discussion of the Darwin-Hitler connection: (1) Nazi anti-semitism targeted fit Jews as well as unfit Jews and so was not a true eugenics program. IMO the primary influence of Nazism on the holocaust was to create the idea that it is morally OK to get rid of undesirables. (2) A "systematic" holocaust was impossible because the Nazis had no objective and reliable ways of identifying Jews and non-Jews. Denyse O'Leary said in the original post,
Surely no one sends their students there (Wikipedia)?
A lot of schools and teachers do not allow students to use Wikipedia as a primary reference. At least one school even blocked access to Wickedpedia on all of the school's computers. My blog has several articles about the Darwin-to-Hitler connection in the following two post-label groups (there are two groups because my blogging software allows only a maximum of 20 articles per group) -- http://im-from-missouri.blogspot.com/search/label/Darwin-to-Hitler http://im-from-missouri.blogspot.com/search/label/Darwin-to-HItler%20%28new%20%231%29Larry Fafarman
July 12, 2008
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@3. I agree that this could be considered anecdotal evidence for fish feeling pain. However, pain is not necessary for such a response. The 'flight' response for prey species is deeply wired into the genes, as prey species survive by fleeing predators (usually by running, but most animals will fight if there's no escape). A similar observation is seen in cows (and most other prey species). Unless a cow has been brought up pretty much inside a person's house (constant, consistent contact with humans from an early age), cows will always try to avoid getting caught. When they are trapped by a cattle crush, though it does not inflict pain on them, they thrash and strain against it, wanting to escape from being 'caught'. They then also tend to avoid the device if they see it again (but fortunately for dairy/beef industry are cowed into it easily enough by beating them on the backside with a polypipe, excuse the pun). The behavior of prey animals (and predators) are deeply hardwired into their genes (or wherever), such that there are certain behaviors that are default and hard to erase ('static' behaviors, common to all members of that species). Making fish at ease with being caught is an example of this, as is making cows comfortable close to humans rather than running away. Certainly you can have cows (and perhaps fish?) that are 'at ease' with humans patting them (I have seen a few), but the prey/flee behavior is deeply wired into them and alot of training/handling is needed to overcome this instinctive response.Avonwatches
July 12, 2008
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Guess its time someone send Judge Jones a signed copy :)vpr
July 12, 2008
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Over at Telic Thoughts, Mike Gene has presented this link: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9401EFDC113BF935A25751C0A9659C8B63 It points to an article defending decency in the context of a Darwinian philosopher who is suggesting that we practice infanticide. Bringing out the holocaust in "Evidence" was totally realistic. Holocaust 1 was Hitler's. Holocaust 2 is abortion. Holocaust 3 is allowing women, or men, to choose well after the baby is born. Even if evolution were true, it would be better for society to conclude that it is not.bFast
July 11, 2008
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nullasalus, "Even fish (from what I read) lack the brain material to experience such." I once was fishing in a small river. I could see a few small fish swimming around, so I figued I'd watch how they responded to my fly. I stuck my fly down there, and lo and behold the biggest of the bunch bit. It was still only 6" long so I let it go. It went right back to the hole it had been hold up in. I put my fly down again. As a littler fish went for my fly, the first fish shoed it away. Maybe fish are underestimated. BTW, I have similar anecdotal evidence that fish see color.bFast
July 11, 2008
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That's a very good point about insects, Denyse - one I've been long considering. Darwin made hey about those evil wasps with their evil methods of reproduction, but no one points out that the evidence indicates insects feel no pain. Even fish (from what I read) lack the brain material to experience such. Which puts an interesting spin on the argument of evil issue with regards to nature. Just how much evolution was had before pain was introduced? And was the introduction of pain itself a bad thing?nullasalus
July 11, 2008
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Oh, lordy, let's not go there again. Sigh...FtK
July 11, 2008
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