Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

The Argument From Evil Explained

Categories
Intelligent Design
Share
Facebook
Twitter/X
LinkedIn
Flipboard
Print
Email

Many times we hear about the “argument from evil” as a knock-down argument for the non-existence of God.  For those of you who are not familiar with the argument, I will explain it.  It goes like this:

All good arguments depend on the precise, clear and unambiguous use of language.  The argument from evil is no exception.  It obviously demands an exacting definition of the word “evil.”  Richard Dawkins, the world’s most famous atheist, says the universe has “no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.”  If he is right and there is no evil, that might seem like a problem for an argument from, well, evil.  But it is not.  Dawkins means there is no objective transcendent morality.  Stuff just happens for no reason and it is neither good nor evil in the sense of “conforming to an objective moral code” since there is no objective moral code.  But that does not mean we cannot nevertheless employ the word “evil” in a way that is useful for our argument.  We just have to define the word to mean “that which I do not subjectively prefer” or more loosely “icky stuff I don’t like.”

Now that we have the definitional issue out of the way, we can go on to the argument.  It is a simple augment really.  It amounts to the following syllogism that any child can understand:

Major Premise:  If God exists, he would prevent evil (remember our definition “icky stuff I don’t like) from happening.

Minor Premise:  Icky stuff I don’t like happens all the time.

Conclusion:  Therefore, God does not exist.

QED

Comments
daveS, Regarding 246 & 247. God’s thoughts and ways are infinitely superior than mine or anybody else’s. God’s plan is revealed to God’s people in the Scriptures, but sometimes they could be very difficult to grasp entirely. However, His people believe God is in control and loves me. God’s word assures His people that no matter what happens during this relatively brief physical existence, at the end we shall be in God’s glorious presence and enjoy it forever. Such an assurance gives His people enormous reason for true joy, though we suffer seeing many people, included close relatives, who still haven’t seen this. That’s salvation. Through saving faith alone, by God’s amazing grace alone. Like in the painter’s example, we all could be removed from this earthly “gallery” and destroyed by God’s sovereign will. But God decided to graciously provide a unique Way for us to be saved from that otherwise unavoidable fate. There’s no reasonable argument against this. Science, specially today, can’t argue coherently against this undeniable truth. Yes, uncounted number of times people have tried unsuccessfully to punch holes in this truth. I pray that you see this well. God loves you and me. This is not “I love chocolate”. Not even the kind of “love” described in Paul McCartney’s song “my love”. This is agape love. God loves me despite the undeniable fact that I’m totally unlovable in God’s terms. Unbelievable, isn’t it?PaoloV
August 31, 2018
August
08
Aug
31
31
2018
01:07 PM
1
01
07
PM
PDT
re 249: kf, I have no idea what you mean by galloping cases: are you referring to the problem that if God acts in one case, its' a slippery slope to God acting in so many cases that freedom becomes excessively restrained, or are you just referring to me asking questions? Anyway, can you answer this question: Therefore you conclude that God never stops something evil from happening – true?jdk
August 31, 2018
August
08
Aug
31
31
2018
12:53 PM
12
12
53
PM
PDT
re 245: Vivid, I understand clearly, I think, that the freedom to make choices is essential to the question and existence of good and evil. However, I still have the questions that I asked kf: 1. Can God act to prevent an evil act (or any act) from happening? 2. Does God ever act to prevent an evil act from happening? Or are all human actions irrevocably free, and it is totally up to us to both handle our own actions appropriately and deal with the actions of those whom we think are acting badly, or even evilly? What do you think?jdk
August 31, 2018
August
08
Aug
31
31
2018
12:48 PM
12
12
48
PM
PDT
JDK, God gives us freedom. Freedom comes with responsibility, which is conscience-guided. Bad actions have consequences and become in the end counter-acting or self-limiting. They also lead others to act in their own defence. The repeated attempts to set off galloping cases fail, fail in ways that suggest that there is a problem with understanding freedom. KFkairosfocus
August 31, 2018
August
08
Aug
31
31
2018
12:46 PM
12
12
46
PM
PDT
What are the tangible effects of the Atheist's rejection of God and of His objective morality? Not Good!
Study: Religiously affiliated people lived religiously affiliated lived “9.45 and 5.64 years longer…” July 1, 2018 Excerpt: Self-reported religious service attendance has been linked with longevity. However, previous work has largely relied on self-report data and volunteer samples. Here, mention of a religious affiliation in obituaries was analyzed as an alternative measure of religiosity. In two samples (N = 505 from Des Moines, IA, and N = 1,096 from 42 U.S. cities), the religiously affiliated lived 9.45 and 5.64 years longer, respectively, than the nonreligiously affiliated. Additionally, social integration and volunteerism partially mediated the religion–longevity relation. https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/study-religiously-affiliated-people-lived-religiously-affiliated-lived-9-45-and-5-64-years-longer/ Can Religion Extend Your Life? - By Chuck Dinerstein — June 16, 2018 Excerpt: The researcher's regression analysis suggested that the effect of volunteering and participation accounted for 20% or 1 year of the impact, while religious affiliation accounted for the remaining four years or 80%. https://www.acsh.org/news/2018/06/16/can-religion-extend-your-life-13092 “I maintain that whatever else faith may be, it cannot be a delusion. The advantageous effect of religious belief and spirituality on mental and physical health is one of the best-kept secrets in psychiatry and medicine generally. If the findings of the huge volume of research on this topic had gone in the opposite direction and it had been found that religion damages your mental health, it would have been front-page news in every newspaper in the land.” - Professor Andrew Sims former President of the Royal College of Psychiatrists - Is Faith Delusion?: Why religion is good for your health - preface https://books.google.com/books?id=PREdCgAAQBAJ&pg=PR11#v=onepage&q&f=false “In the majority of studies, religious involvement is correlated with well-being, happiness and life satisfaction; hope and optimism; purpose and meaning in life; higher self-esteem; better adaptation to bereavement; greater social support and less loneliness; lower rates of depression and faster recovery from depression; lower rates of suicide and fewer positive attitudes towards suicide; less anxiety; less psychosis and fewer psychotic tendencies; lower rates of alcohol and drug use and abuse; less delinquency and criminal activity; greater marital stability and satisfaction… We concluded that for the vast majority of people the apparent benefits of devout belief and practice probably outweigh the risks.” - Professor Andrew Sims former President of the Royal College of Psychiatrists - Is Faith Delusion?: Why religion is good for your health – page 100 https://books.google.com/books?id=PREdCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA100#v=onepage&q&f=false
bornagain77
August 31, 2018
August
08
Aug
31
31
2018
12:40 PM
12
12
40
PM
PDT
daveS, Regarding 244. The word “will” appears in reference to God’s will. We may have free will, but God is absolutely sovereign. As the ultimate Creator, God may give and take away as He wishes. He doesn’t have to consult with me or anybody else, no matter how much I would prefer that to happen. Like a painter who may come to his/her gallery, remove all his/her paintings and destroy them, even if I don’t like that action and may even consider it very rude.PaoloV
August 31, 2018
August
08
Aug
31
31
2018
12:26 PM
12
12
26
PM
PDT
Paolo, Would you mind summarizing briefly the clear explanation you refer to in post #231? What is to be explained is why Sandy Hook (a notorious school shooting in the US) was allowed to happen, while an ~85-year-old man was caught by an angel after falling off a stepladder.daveS
August 31, 2018
August
08
Aug
31
31
2018
12:20 PM
12
12
20
PM
PDT
Scuzza RE 243 Excellent questions ones that I have asked in previous posts. Can we call a free choice a choice if the effects are negated? Vividvividbleau
August 31, 2018
August
08
Aug
31
31
2018
12:18 PM
12
12
18
PM
PDT
daveS, Continuing 242: Is. 53:10 it was the will of the Lord. This amazing statement is true because Christ was delivered up “according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God” (Acts 2:23). offspring. The offspring are those who come to life through His death (John 12:24; Gal. 3:29). Is. 53:11 knowledge. This is a reference to His insight into the divine plan (52:13 note). righteous. See Rom. 5:19. accounted righteous. Christ’s righteousness is imputed to His people (53:6 note), and in return He accepted their guilt so as to “bear their iniquities.” See “Justification and Merit” at Gal. 3:11. Is. 53:12 Therefore I. The Lord divides the spoils of victory with His triumphant Servant (52:13). poured out his soul. He gave Himself for the sins of others (v. 4; Luke 22:37; Phil. 2:7, 8; Heb. 9:28; 1 Pet. 2:24). intercession. He prayed for sinners (Luke 23:34; Heb. 7:25).PaoloV
August 31, 2018
August
08
Aug
31
31
2018
12:13 PM
12
12
13
PM
PDT
@239 "Fair enough, but then if this god is omni-benevolent, why does he allow evil acts to happen?" What would an omnisicient ominpotent ominbenelvolent God do to prevent them, in your philosophie? Would he allow the causal act but magically remove the symptom? Would he physically restrain his creations at the instant before the act is completed and thus void the intended effects? Would be simply create plants (biological machines without moral choices or the capacity to make them) but somehow imbue them with the illusion that they have moral choices and the capacity to enact them? (And then for some perverse reason of his own populate their delusions with the most vile horrors of which mankind is guilty?) Which of these possible alternatives would more closely satisfy your own sense of what is really benevolent? I learned a long time ago that when people try to put you in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" dilemma, when they vilify you for acting and for refraining from acting, then you are not the problem. They are.ScuzzaMan
August 31, 2018
August
08
Aug
31
31
2018
12:03 PM
12
12
03
PM
PDT
daveS, Regarding 238. The “Suffering Servant” is Jesus Christ. This passage is quoted or referred to many times in the New Testament. Christ’s suffering in the place of His sheep gives them eternal life. Is. 53:1 what they heard from us. The gospel proclaimed by the believing remnant. Is. 53:2 root out of dry ground. His origins were not promising (Zech. 4:10; John 1:46). Is. 53:3 despised and rejected. See 49:7; Ps. 22:6; Lam. 1:1–3; 2:15, 16. Is. 53:4 smitten by God. They believed this about the Servant because the Law said, “a hanged man is cursed by God” (Deut. 21:23; cf. Gal. 3:13). The onlookers thought Christ was suffering only what He deserved, but His experience of pain and anguish was for His people (1 Pet. 2:24). The extremity of His suffering shows that His compassion is real and not theoretical (Heb. 2:17, 18). Is. 53:5 we are healed. The sufferings of Christ remove the penalty that His people would otherwise owe, and as a result He will undo the effects of sin in them. Death itself will be undone at last (1 Cor. 15:26). Is. 53:6 All we. Even as we all sinned, so He died for all of us (2 Cor. 5:14, 15). See “Definite Redemption” at John 10:15. sheep . . . astray. See 1 Pet. 2:25. See “Original Sin and Total Depravity” at Ps. 51:5. laid. The guilt of our sins was transferred to Jesus, and He offered Himself as a sacrifice in our place. As Paul wrote, God “made him to be sin who knew no sin” (2 Cor. 5:21). Is. 53:7 lamb . . . sheep. Christ is the Lamb of God (John 1:29; 1 Cor. 5:7; Rev. 5:6) in obedience and submission to God (cf. Matt. 26:63; 27:12, 14; 1 Pet. 2:23). Is. 53:8 By oppression and judgment. He was put to death as a result of injustice. See “The Atonement” at Rom. 3:25. Is. 53:9 wicked . . . rich. Although people supposed that Jesus was dying as a common criminal, through the intervention of Joseph of Arimathea Jesus was buried in honor. His suffering for sinners had been successfully completed. violence . . . deceit. He was wise and righteous (1 Pet. 2:22), but died a criminal’s death (Luke 23:33).PaoloV
August 31, 2018
August
08
Aug
31
31
2018
12:01 PM
12
12
01
PM
PDT
42 "Nothing stands out as obviously incorrect with this argument." This is an opinion, and an opinion about your own perceptions, not an argument nor an objective measurement. In point of fact part 3 of your syllogism is the source of your error. It assumes that God behaves (or a theoretical God would behave) as you do and for your reasons. (Remember here that Christians believe in a God who says of himself that "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,".) This is making God in your own image, completely opposite to the actual case, and is therefore a strawman, also of your own making. In sum, it has no suasive power because it is not at all relevant to the point at issue.ScuzzaMan
August 31, 2018
August
08
Aug
31
31
2018
11:55 AM
11
11
55
AM
PDT
Thanks, PaoloV.daveS
August 31, 2018
August
08
Aug
31
31
2018
11:43 AM
11
11
43
AM
PDT
Marfin @ 227 -
Bob O H . So you still won`t give that definition of evil I keep asking for, I wonder why that is.
I can tell you, it's not difficult. Because it's not relevant to the Problem of Evil. The problem of evil is that God says that there are evil acts, and apparently does nothing to stop many of them.
My position simply is , that if an all knowing, all powerful, all wise creator exists and he made us then he gets to call the shots re good and evil,
Fair enough, but then if this god is omni-benevolent, why does he allow evil acts to happen?Bob O'H
August 31, 2018
August
08
Aug
31
31
2018
11:27 AM
11
11
27
AM
PDT
daveS @235, No problem. Perhaps my comment wasn’t clear enough. I misunderstand many things every day. I’m human. It seems like you’re human too, unless I’m having this friendly chat with an advanced AI robot. :) I’m on the road. My wife is driving, because this morning I wasn’t feeling well. I’ve been sick the last couple of weeks. Why does God allow that to happen to me? Specially today, when He knew we were traveling and I prefer to drive, so that my wife can relax. Please, note that in the biblical passages related to what you and I are discussing, God not only allowed it to happen, but actually made it happen. To start, I suggest you look at Isaiah 53. Thanks.PaoloV
August 31, 2018
August
08
Aug
31
31
2018
10:56 AM
10
10
56
AM
PDT
re 236: Therefore you conclude that God never stops something evil from happening - true?jdk
August 31, 2018
August
08
Aug
31
31
2018
09:18 AM
9
09
18
AM
PDT
JDK, the problem of galloping cases was explained when I first used the phrase above, as was already noted to you; it was responsive to why doesn't God stop X, and the point is, that's just X1, 2, 3 etc follow unless you impose an arbitrary stop point and it ends at the same issue, not having freedom and the good that comes of it including reasoning [so, the argument is self-shattering], or erasing us from existence, effectively the same. Plantinga has addressed the essential point, cf 49 above. I later added remarks on misdirected responsibility, as we have adequate guidance and responsibility. KFkairosfocus
August 31, 2018
August
08
Aug
31
31
2018
09:15 AM
9
09
15
AM
PDT
PauloV, Sorry, I misunderstood. Would you cite the passages, please?daveS
August 31, 2018
August
08
Aug
31
31
2018
08:58 AM
8
08
58
AM
PDT
daveS, My question was specifically about whether you have read the explanation we’re discussing now, not the Bible in general.PaoloV
August 31, 2018
August
08
Aug
31
31
2018
08:55 AM
8
08
55
AM
PDT
re 231 and 229: Does the Bible provide a definition of evil?jdk
August 31, 2018
August
08
Aug
31
31
2018
08:51 AM
8
08
51
AM
PDT
PaoloV, My interest is in whether this particular person's account resolves the problem of evil (or teaches me something new), therefore I want to hear what he or she says. People help each other learn this way. I have read the bible, fwiw.daveS
August 31, 2018
August
08
Aug
31
31
2018
08:43 AM
8
08
43
AM
PDT
daveS, Sure, my pleasure. Simply because the reason is clearly explained in the Christian Bible. Anything else I or somebody else could tell you is baseless. Have you ever read it yourself? Thanks.PaoloV
August 31, 2018
August
08
Aug
31
31
2018
08:35 AM
8
08
35
AM
PDT
PaoloV, No, please tell me.daveS
August 31, 2018
August
08
Aug
31
31
2018
08:17 AM
8
08
17
AM
PDT
re 233: I don't think a simple "definition" of evil exists. Do you have a definition, PaoloV?jdk
August 31, 2018
August
08
Aug
31
31
2018
08:08 AM
8
08
08
AM
PDT
daveS @226: That wouldn’t be correct in this case to accept whatever another person tells you about this. Can you think why that wouldn’t be correct?PaoloV
August 31, 2018
August
08
Aug
31
31
2018
08:03 AM
8
08
03
AM
PDT
Bob O H . So you still won`t give that definition of evil I keep asking for, I wonder why that is. My position simply is , that if an all knowing, all powerful, all wise creator exists and he made us then he gets to call the shots re good and evil, and if he does not exist then evolution is the only alternative and there is no such thing as good or evil only reproduction and survival. Now if man enough how about you provide that evolution based definition of evil.Marfin
August 31, 2018
August
08
Aug
31
31
2018
07:55 AM
7
07
55
AM
PDT
PaoloV, I would accept whatever answers the Christian with whom I am conversing gives. This is important. Then the question is whether what the Christian says is coherent and plausible. My own opinions on these matters are unimportant.daveS
August 31, 2018
August
08
Aug
31
31
2018
07:52 AM
7
07
52
AM
PDT
daveS @222: Good. Can you respond it in your own words? Please, don’t quote another source. Thanks.PaoloV
August 31, 2018
August
08
Aug
31
31
2018
07:47 AM
7
07
47
AM
PDT
Yes, we have freedom, and a price for freedom is the existence of evil.
We have freedom, unless we've been killed by an evil act. Apparently God wants evil people to have more freedom than innocents.Bob O'H
August 31, 2018
August
08
Aug
31
31
2018
07:45 AM
7
07
45
AM
PDT
jdk, Please define evil in your own understanding. Don’t copy/paste a definition from an online source. Thanks.PaoloV
August 31, 2018
August
08
Aug
31
31
2018
07:44 AM
7
07
44
AM
PDT
1 2 3 4 5 6 12

Leave a Reply