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The Credulity of those Posing as the Champions of Science

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This post is NOT about global warming.  It is about the credulity of some religious fanatics who, ironically, pose as paragons of scientific skepticism.  Global warming alarmists often call skeptics of global warming alarmism “science deniers.”  The idea seems to be that the alarmists are the sober-minded champions of dispassionate science, and the skeptics are benighted opponents of scientific endeavor.

The reality is, of course, oftentimes just the opposite, as a recent exchange with wd400 illustrates.

In a previous post I noted how the recent “2014 Warmest Year on Record” headlines were almost certainly false.  The alleged record consisted of a .02C increase when the margin of error of the measurement was 0.1C.  In other words, the alleged increase was a small fraction of the margin of error, and the NASA director now says there was only a 38 per cent chance that his press release was correct.

Wd400 picked up on the following sentence from the post:

Global warming: The only area of science where researchers report as absolute fact claims that are almost certainly not true.

And the following exchange occurred:

wd400

62% is “almost certainly” and you are accusing others of being fast and loose with numbers?

BA

So you admit that it is overwhelmingly false; just not certainly false. And that makes you feel better?

wd400

I don’t even know what “overwhelmingly false” means, something is true or it a’int. Evidence might overwhelming support a hypothesis, but are you really trying to say a probability of 62% is “overwhelming” in addition to “almost certain”?

Well, wd, let me see if I can help you out.  First, the entire context of the discussion was the probability of the NASA report being false.  In that context “overwhelmingly false” is obviously shorthand for “an overwhelming probability of being false.”

And yes, ontologically speaking, something is true or it is not true.  Either 2014 was the warmest year on record or it was not.  But this is not an ontological issue.  It is an epistemological issue.  As in many scientific endeavors we cannot know with certainty.  That is why many scientific conclusions are cast in terms of probability, i.e., “there is a 97% chance that X is true.”  That is why the field of statistics was developed to begin with.  The issue, therefore, is about the confidence with which we can say 2014 was the warmest year on record, and it turns out that we cannot make that assertion with any confidence. We now know the statement is probably false.

And speaking of statistics, historically the threshold for scientific assertion was 95% probability.  In other words, a scientist worried about his reputation would not assert anything as scientific fact if there were even a 5.1% chance that he was wrong.

Well, of course, that all got thrown out the window with global warming hucksterism such as that demonstrated by the NASA report.  There NASA asserted as fact a proposition that had a 62% probability of being false.  In other words, NASA threw scientific standards out the window.  If 5% is a historically acceptable margin, NASA accepted a margin that was 12.4 times greater.

WD suggested I was playing “fast and loose” with the terms “almost certainly” and “overwhelmingly.”  Well, those words are relative.  In this case they are relative to the historically accepted scientific confidence levels, and in comparison to those levels the terms I used are perfectly appropriate.

Now that we have that cleared up, let’s go on to discuss the larger issue – wd400’s credulity.  His comments seem to suggest something like “there is only a 62% chance that the ‘2014 was the warmest year’ assertion was false; therefore the phrases ‘overwhelmingly false’ and ‘almost certainly false’ are exaggerations.”

To which I would say, what is your point?  You are the one who says he is on the side of science.  Scientists always say it is important to be skeptical, to insist on high standards of proof for scientific assertions.  That is why we have a confidence margin (95%) that is so high in the first place.

What does it say about you that you quibble with the words “overwhelming” and “almost false” when a claim falls short of that margin by a factor of 12.4X?  It says that the science is not important to you.  It says that your blind leap in the dark religious faith is comfortable accepting any assertion as scientific fact – even if that assertion is probably false – if the assertion is consonant with your faith commitments.  And that, coming from someone who claims to be on the side of science, is truly ironic.

Comments
BTW, you are correct that Democrats are not better at science than Republicans. They subscribe to global warming alarmism at higher rates because, as this thread demonstrates, they are more credulous than those who do not. Fascinating! Where opinions largely track party lines, they are credulous fools and fascists, while we are accurately understanding the science. I think that's not a very insightful analysis, but I bet it feels good. It raises an interesting and more subtle question, which is how we should analyze our own beliefs. Personally, I'm interested in incentive structures and empiricism. I tend to think global warming is a legitimate issue, despite knowing almost nothing about it, because I'm very skeptical that the consensus of climate experts is due to conspiracy or misaligned incentives. I think academics typically have an incentive to buck the party line because novel results, when they are supportable and bear out under scrutiny, are more valuable to a scientists than party-line results. In other words, you don't get to be then next Darwin or Einstein by repeating what everyone else has to say. There's obviously an incentive for some to keep their head down and do conforming work too, but I don't think it prevents contrarian thinking given how often contrarian thinking pops up anyway. I'm also interested, per the Rational Irrationality theory, in how people invest. Often people believe something irrational until it starts to cost them something, at which point they begin to moderate their beliefs. For example, the farmers in the study above who don't believe in global warming but are thinking about how they're going to have to adjust their planting regardless. Or people who believe that crystal healing can cure anything until they feel a lump; they don't stop believing in crystal healing, but they do go see an oncologist. When it comes to global warming, my perception (which is not based on a serious study, just casual reading) is that businesses are investing in the belief that it's a real thing and growing problem. Lloyd's is taking climate change into account in its underwriting policies, and per the same article Standard & Poor's is considering its impact on the credit rating of countries likely to be affected. (The former is more persuasive to me than the latter, given the ugly reputation the credit ratings agencies have.) Obviously the insurance companies aren't doing the science, but their incentives are to analyze it as rigorously as possible without the overt political or cultural biases that affect individuals. And obviously they aren't perfect at it, and certainly could be completely wrong. But looking at bias and incentive structures like that is how I, personally, try to minimize my own biases. Because I'd hate to be the kind of person who just flings slurs like idiot, asshat, credulous, and fascist at the people on the other side of the aisle.Learned Hand
January 23, 2015
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Barry Arrington: the 18 year trend of no statistically significant increase in average global temps is admitted even by most climate alarmists. Which is usually defined at the 95% level of confidence. The confidence for the 18 year trend is only 90% or so. It is very likely the Earth's surface has warmed over the past 18 years, and it is extremely likely that it has warmed over the past 20 years. Meanwhile, Earth’s ocean heat content has continue to rise.Zachriel
January 23, 2015
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“Denialism” is a form of polemical invective that ascribes to one’s opponent a bad faith and/or irrational rejection of undeniable fact. Well, look at those goalposts move! I do believe that many denialist positions are irrational. But then, I take an economist's view of irrationality. I think most everyone, myself included, holds irrational opinions that they prefer to think of as rational. In particular I'm a big fan of Rational Irrationality, which posits that it's rational for individuals to hold irrational positions. Obviously I don't expect anyone who holds a belief I think is irrational to agree with me. The pejorative connotation of "irrational" is a shame, because it makes it harder to discuss what seems fairly apparent to me, that we're all quite often irrational without realizing it. As for whether "denialist" is a dirty word, you can take whatever offense you like. It's neither intended nor loaded enough a term that I feel the need to take an instruction to "go forth and do better." Particularly from someone whose concern for civility is so situational, given your preference for demonizing and insulting those who disagree with you.Learned Hand
January 23, 2015
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LH @ 42 BTW, you are correct that Democrats are not better at science than Republicans. They subscribe to global warming alarmism at higher rates because, as this thread demonstrates, they are more credulous than those who do not. Also, the draconian authoritarian "remedies" pushed by climate alarmists are consonant with the fascist impulse behind most progressive politics.Barry Arrington
January 23, 2015
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Zachriel, the 18 year trend of no statistically significant increase in average global temps is admitted even by most climate alarmists. Your comment places you squarely in the far far far left foaming at the mouth zealot end of the spectrum.Barry Arrington
January 23, 2015
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Barry Arrington: “No statistically significant increase in temps in 2014, continuing 18 year trend.” There is a more than 95% chance the Earth's surface has warmed over the last 20 years, and a more than 90% chance the Earth's surface has warmed over the last 18 years. Meanwhile, Earth's ocean heat content has continue to rise.Zachriel
January 23, 2015
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LH, I will take what you say as a good faith explanation of your position. If that is the case, you are not stupid; you are just ignorant. "Denialism" is a form of polemical invective that ascribes to one's opponent a bad faith and/or irrational rejection of undeniable fact. The term has its roots in those who deny the holocaust happened. So you should know that every time you use the word "denialism" you are lumping your opponents in with holocaust deniers. Indeed, that is the very purpose of the term for most people who use it. Now that you know the etymology of the term, go forth and do better.Barry Arrington
January 23, 2015
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The strong correlation between political position and belief in evolution (in the US at least) and climate change should make the importance of these biases clear (no matter which “side” you think has truth on their side). Yep. The wonderful symmetry of this graph isn't because liberal democrats are better at understanding science, or because conservative republicans are worse at it. And there's no reason to think anyone on any side is lying about their beliefs. Edited to add (love the edit function): And here's a fascinating example of how complicated and counterintuitive beliefs can be. Farmers who mostly say they don't believe in global warming also mostly say that they'll have to adjust their farming practices as a consequence of global warming. That study has some issues with wording that might explain the difference, but I suspect (partly because this is just one data point in a large trend of people believing contradictory things simultaneously) that it's accurately reporting people who honestly don't believe in global warming but nevertheless think it's going to affect them.Learned Hand
January 23, 2015
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Barry, I don't think most people that deny mainstream scientific positions set out to dissemble. And if I did I wouldn't bother engaging them, I've better things to do with my time than play high-school debating. Rather, human brains come chock full of biases, and if we aren't very careful about checking those biases we will reach bad conclusions while believing them strongly. The strong correlation between political position and belief in evolution (in the US at least) and climate change should make the importance of these biases clear (no matter which "side" you think has truth on their side).wd400
January 23, 2015
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As far as I'm concerned, "denialism" refers to a trend that denies an empirical fact supported by consensus (or at least a consensus of the experts). It has nothing to do with whether someone's opinion is genuine or not. You can define the word however you like, but I nevertheless assume as a matter of course that people self-report their beliefs honestly and accurately. While I can imagine exceptions, I can't think of a real-life example of someone only pretending to not believe in evolution, global warming, or vaccine safety. Why would they?Learned Hand
January 23, 2015
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LH @ 38: "Bad faith? That’s not something I wrote." You don't understand that the whole purpose of lumping someone into the category of "denialism" is to imply they are acting in bad faith? I really don't think you are that stupid. Barry Arrington
January 23, 2015
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Bad faith? That's not something I wrote. Nor do I believe it. These debates would be much simpler if any of the positions were in bad faith. They're sticky and difficult precisely because we believe the things we believe in good faith. Our beliefs often align with those of our cultural backgrounds and communities, but that's not bad faith--that's just the fact that people tend to hold honest opinions similar to those of their friends and loved ones and the people they respect. This evolution and climate change stuff is relatively tame. I'm mostly active in the vaccine debate, in which anti-vaxers are furiously trying to prevent immunization against dangerous diseases. The damage done by that community is much, much, much greater than any done by creationism, and much more immediate than any done by climate change. But even there, I assume that the opinions on the other side are honest and sincere. You stay classy LH. I will try, and I will certainly refrain from calling people "asshats" and "idiots." Please do the same.Learned Hand
January 23, 2015
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Mark @ 36. Wrong again. An honest headline would have been: "No statistically significant increase in temps in 2014, continuing 18 year trend." This is obvious. That you don't see it and still continue to defend the indefensible should cause you great concern. I doubt that it will.Barry Arrington
January 23, 2015
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I am interested in what NASA should have put in the press release. If I were to summarise the press briefing it would be something like: The global average measured temperatures in 2014 were the highest ever recorded according to two well accepted methods of handling those temperatures. 2014 is now the most likely year to be the hottest year on record. There are two other recent years that are slightly less likely to be the hottest year on record but it is well within the bounds of statistical significance that it is actually one of these. Now suggest a succinct headline that gets all that across while minimising any misapprehensions.Mark Frank
January 23, 2015
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LH @ 34: "makes me feel proud of my efforts to be civil," he said one post after dismissing the objections of everyone who disagrees with him as the bad faith spewings of blinkered ideologues." You stay classy LH. You apparently don't realize how arrogant your posts are. Or maybe you do and don't care.Barry Arrington
January 23, 2015
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Hmmm. I didn't see comment #32 until after I posted mine. I quite like the contrast; makes me feel proud of my efforts to be civil. Edited to add: The CCP's research also suggests why (aside from manners--how fast would Barry ban someone who argues like he does?) it makes a difference to be civil in conversations like these. The more polemical a discussion, the more likely it is to "recruit" people to one side or the other based not on an objective review of the evidence, but a sense of identity. "That guy is a jerk," or "that guy is passionate" are liable to encourage someone to oppose or join them in the debate on emotional grounds. And then, as human beings are wont to do, rationalize that decision as one based on the evidence. Most of their work on that particular front has to do with vaccines, but it applies as well to global warming and evolution. They allude to it at the end of the link I dropped in #33.Learned Hand
January 23, 2015
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rvb8, I'm very interested in the psychology of denialism, although typically moreso when it comes to evolution and vaccines than global warming. (I've never studied climate, so the arguments are less accessible to me.) I think ideological skepticism to inconvenient or offensive conclusions runs strong at UD, but it's probably not true that all the various trends you mention are connected. The Cultural Cognition Project at Yale studies this (inter alia) specifically. Their "Vaccine Risk Perceptions study specifically examined how vaccine risk perceptions relate to climate skepticism and disbelief in evolution. It found there was no meaningful relationship." I don't know as much about the connection between skeptical climate change narratives and creationism; I suspect at least a strong correlation. The same results suggest there's also a correlation between high religiosity and those positions, which is interesting when it comes to climate change (and of course no surprise when it comes to creationism). But I don't know if those correlations are significant.Learned Hand
January 23, 2015
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rvb8 @ 29: I point out NASA's lies and all of a sudden I'm a member of a vast anti-government conspiracy? Idiot. Conspiracy theorists like you -- whether they are wading through the fever swamps on the right or the fever swamps on the left -- have this in common: projecting conspiracies on those with whom they disagree is a substitute for actually having to engage with their arguments.Barry Arrington
January 23, 2015
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The discussion here is really about a qualitative rather than quantitative issue. To say that, "Last year was the hottest in earth’s recorded history," as the New York Times recently did, is tantamount to claiming that to be true "beyond reasonable doubt." A 95% probability of something being true generally would not qualify as beyond reasonable doubt. On the other hand a 99% probability might be adequate for some people. However to say that 2014 was the hottest record based on an only 38% probability of it being true is a qualitative failure. No sane person would equate a 38% probability with the idea of beyond reasonable doubt. Thus the hottest recorded year claim represents journalistic malpractice. Nasa climate scientists: We said 2014 was the warmest year on record... but we're only 38% sure we were rightRalphDavidWestfall
January 23, 2015
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#27 Mahuna If I were to go to the effort of finding references to disprove some of your claims how would you react? (I don't want to waste my time)Mark Frank
January 23, 2015
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LH at 24, "When you just don't like something the government does...". I think you have exposed clearly the motivation of this and dozens of other News and Barry posts; a pathological hatred of all things connected to government. (The Federal govt built and maintains State Highways, The Manhatten Project was completed under government supervision, Apollo 11 reached the moon- private companies seeing no point or profit in this noble effort. Private companies are today in the space race, using technology developed by the Soviets, and the evil Fed. Do these 'pioneering' hacks pay a royalty back to US citizens, for absconding with this tax payer sponsored research?) Acknowledging that government can be a force for good is anathema to these people. If a government agency (NASA) says the world is warming, it is simply the miss use of tax payer's money, or a conspiracy to stop me driving my SUV.(As if the SUV itself is not a strong enough argument to stop driving it.) It has been noted by many others that these following groups of people have close and very strong inter-connections: Anti-vaccinationers, global warming deniers, evolution deniers, the religiously disposed, anti-government type "don't tread on me" loons, survivalists, and your garden variety paranoid. Living in this permanent state of victimhood must be taxing. Pun intended.rvb8
January 22, 2015
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Stephenb
One of the first things you should have learned is that the classical hypothesis testing uses a pre-established value [a] that the [p] value is measured against. The 95% is the [a] value not the [p] value
I was trying to be concise but your are correct. The 95% is a commonly accepted value which defines a rejection interval. If the p-value should fall into the rejection interval (i.e. > 95%) then it is common practice to reject the null hypothesis. The null hypothesis is usually that the results are due to chance (although the definition of "chance" changes a bit according to context). However, that seemed a bit ponderous so I simple wrote a p-value of 95%. The point remains it is a not a scientific standard and it is not comparable to the 38% probability. Agreed?Mark Frank
January 22, 2015
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The real point is that the "warmest" title is for press release sensationalism only. Ice at both poles INCREASED in 2014, and of course none of the mountain glaciers that were supposed to melt away have melted away. The world has something less than 150 years of worldwide thermometer readings, and anyone who works in the field knows that some stations consistently report erroneous temperatures. I also read somewhere that one of the effects of the collapse of Russian Communism (yay!) was that the new Russian government cut costs by closing quite a few weather stations in Siberia. These stations had consistently recorded some of the lowest temperatures in the world. When you remove their readings from new data sets, the new worldwide average goes up a tad by simple arithmetic. NASA, and its stable of wild-eyed Warmists, has a LOT of money riding on panicking congressmen and voters over some tiny changes in weather. Every single prediction they had EVER made (and note that the Warmists were the New Ice Age guys back in the 1970s) has turned out to be FALSE. If this were Science, the Theory of Global Warming would have died 10 years ago. But this is a Political gambit concerning MONEY, and professional prestige. And of course Control of EVERYTHING by "panels of eminent experts".mahuna
January 22, 2015
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SB @ 25. You've summed up LH's, MF's and WD's antics in one sentence. Barry Arrington
January 22, 2015
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Barry @22, Yes. I just find it curious when people ignore the spirit for the sake of the letter, and then get the letter wrong.StephenB
January 22, 2015
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Could you sue NASA, Barry? I'm going to feel silly if that's a facetious question, but no. You have to have "standing" to sue someone, meaning a reason why you're in a position to bring the lawsuit. As a basic rule, you have standing if you've suffered some injury or grievance. But a "general grievance" isn't enough. When you just don't like something the government does, it's typically considered a general grievance. So for example, people tried to sue to stop the government from fighting in Vietnam, claiming that they were being injured in that their tax dollars were going to a cause they found unjust. They had an articulable grievance, but not a particular grievance--it was too general to be actionable, because it applied to lots and lots of people. That's an oversimplification, and it's still boring--sorry about that. The rule of thumb is that if your grievance arises from the fact that you're a taxpayer, it's too general to give you standing. Your remedy in that case is supposed to be political rather than legal.Learned Hand
January 22, 2015
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SB @ 22: Petty, sloppy and distracting, for a trifecta.Barry Arrington
January 22, 2015
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Mark Frank
The traditional p-value of 95% when using classical hypothesis testing is not a measure of how probable it is that the hypothesis is true. This is one of the first things you learn about hypothesis testing.
One of the first things you should have learned is that the classical hypothesis testing uses a pre-established value [a] that the [p] value is measured against. The 95% is the [a] value not the [p] value.StephenB
January 22, 2015
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Because I have to tell you, when we objectivists see a lie, we say, “hey, that’s a lie” instead of trying to figure out ways to make it appear not to be a lie.
Finally somebody honestly spells out what they really mean when they claim "I'm an objectivist".hrun0815
January 22, 2015
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Could you sue NASA, Barry?DesignDetectiveDave
January 22, 2015
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