Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

The Deflection Technique (Apprenticeship Lesson)

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Over the years, I’ve learned a few things that may usefully be imparted to bright and budding ID theorists. The lesson I’m about to impart is one I adverted to in my paper “Dealing with the Backlash against Intelligent Design” on my designinference.com website.

To illustrate the lesson, let me give an example from my graduate days in mathematics. At the end of the first year in grad school at the University of Chicago, the math students take oral exams. Depending on whom you get to examine you, this can be a stressful experience. One way to relieve the stress, when asked to prove a theorem on the blackboard, is to introduce a small inaccuracy, one that takes a bit to unravel but is easily rectifiable. The inaccuracy, depending on the professor who is examining you, will consume considerable time and energy. Yes, you will have to endure some berating. But when it’s gone on long enough, you rectify the error. By then the clock has run out and you’ve passed the exam.

Fast forward to my blog entry yesterday titled “What’s Your Favorite Dawkins Quote.” There I gave as my favorite Dawkins quote “Even if there were no actual evidence in favor of the Darwinian theory, we should still be justified in preferring it over all rival theories.” I stated the quote this way on purpose, leaving off a little parenthetical in that sentence that doesn’t at all change its significance. I was waiting how long it would take for kneejerk Darwinists to jump on it. See for yourself at The Panda’s Thumb: “Dembski quote mining Dawkins.”

Now, you may be thinking that I’m just making this all up after the fact. Let me assure you that I’m not. Unlike the evolutionary process with which they are so enamoured, kneejerk Darwinists are supremely predictable. In the future, when I do something like this, I will provide prior confirmation with a date-time stamp elsewhere on the Internet.

By the way, in case you’re wondering what is the point of this exercise, it is to highlight that Dawkins regards evolution as an axiom that does not require empirical confirmation (note that he has made this point in other places and not just in the above quote). What’s gratifying is to see the kneejerk Darwinists at The Panda’s Thumb falling all over themselves trying to justify Dawkins’s ludicrous claim.

That was the point of the exercise. In the best Marxist fashion, Darwinism is collapsing of its own internal contradictions. What you are seeing at The Panda’s Thumb is a sign of things to come.

[P.S.: Squeamish readers of this blog may worry that I’m cynically manipulating the Darwinists. Quite the contrary. I’m doing this for the Darwinists’s benefit, giving them the reality therapy they need to exit the land of the lotus eaters and return to Ithaca. Alternatively, I’m giving them an experience in Socratic elenchus. Frankly, I doubt Socrates would have had much patience with the sophists at The Panda’s Thumb.]

Comments
JaredL I promise to read NFL chapter 5 (revised)if you read this article: http://www.talkreason.org/articles/jello.cfm I am unaware that the criticisms therein have yet been addressed. And I second your request to TomG.Alan Fox
September 19, 2005
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TomG - Where has the EF been applied rigorously to a system in a published work? I haven't gotten a response from Dr. D on that, nor on where it was rigorously shown that any biological system is IC according to his revamped definition of IC in NFL chapter 5, though I have asked several times. I too would like to have something to point to.JaredL
September 15, 2005
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Alan Fox, you asked,
“I would like to know if the explanatory filter has been successfully applied to a biological system.
Who is defining success here? ID theorists are saying yes--and they're inviting others to work the same question, asking only that they have an open mind to what they may find. Ask anyone at Panda's Thumb, and you'll get a quick knee-jerk "no." As Donald M said so well in comment # 27,
"One trend I’ve noticed among Darwinists is that they are never satisfied with any response and continually whine that “so and so has never answered his/her critics.” What that charge boils down to is that responses did not meet the unspoken expectations of the critics or that they didn’t like the answer they got."
TomG
September 14, 2005
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May I suggest, again, you read No Free Lunch chapter 5? Then we might skip a lot of preliminaries which are time consuming and which have already been done. Thanks.JaredL
September 14, 2005
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JaredL said "But the astute reader might do such an analysis himself." Well, where do you start? What aspect of a biological system do you consider? Keeping with the prokaryote flagellum, do you consider its structure in terms of the types and number of proteins from which it is constructed, how it develops in the daughter cell after cell division, does the genetic encoding for its structure enter the equation? What about its functionality, the energy input for the "motor"? Defining the boundary of the (biological) system you propose to analyse doesn't seem that straightforward to me.Alan Fox
September 13, 2005
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And as someone else noted, the posting rate here has increased.Alan Fox
September 13, 2005
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DonaldM I never made a secret of the fact. I made the fact known myself. I am pleasantly surprised that I am still permitted to post here. This refutes the allegation that Dr Dembski censors all criticism.Alan Fox
September 13, 2005
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"They just keep playing the same old pittiful cards because that’s the hand they’re stuck with, and there’s nothing they can do about it." Apparently they can deny that "Darwinism" can be defined as Darwinism and deny that a distinction between "macroevolution" and micro even exists. In fact, it is rather amusing that some Darwinists are condemning the very definitiion of using the terms macro and micro as something that only ignorant Creationists would do. Yet these terms are used in the writings of Darwinists themselves. I think I'll stick with "Darwinists"...although given the urge to merge typical to Darwinists they will probably keep trying to definition in some way. Another example of such avoidance is the reliance on a pollution of language like the blurred term "evolution" which merges all mythological narratives of Naturalism in with basic facts like, "When some organisms die then there may be more of these other ones and stuff."mynym
September 13, 2005
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Alan Fox: Just go to the library and check out TDR. And why are you complaining over at Panda's Thumb about the responses to your posts here? That's playing games. Personally, I request you stop that practice. Did you think no one would notice?DonaldM
September 13, 2005
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Dear Mr. Fox, The flagellum does not arise from bacterial populations lacking one via any known deterministic law; the flagellum has extremely small probability of arising due to chance (see chapter 5 of No Free Lunch); the bacterial flagellum is specified (conforms to a pattern detachable from the object itself); hence, it exhibits specified complexity and induction tells us it was designed. However, that is a criticism I have heard, and I don't know where Dembski has formally analyzed the flagellum according to the EF, so I guess the criticism is valid. It mirrors my own criticism of Dembski in that he doesn't provide the baby-stepped analysis and application of IC or the EF to any biological structure. But the astute reader might do such an analysis himself.JaredL
September 13, 2005
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DonaldM You're referring to a book. Does it contain an answer to my question above? I repeat: "I would like to know if the explanatory filter has been successfully applied to a biological system. I am also wondering how you define the boundary of such a system. For example the bacterial flagellum. Does one focus on the structure in a cell, the cell, a culture of cells, the phenotype of a particular bacterium or is it more abstract? Why not have a FAQ site that can be updated and easily cited and referenced.Alan Fox
September 13, 2005
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Alan Fox writes: "Wouldn’t a FAQ be a simple way to counter the Darwinist claims. You only need to post the answer once. You can revise it as matters progress. What is the problem with that. It would render the charge of never answering awkward questions invalid." That's exactly what "The Design Revolution" is. Note thesubtitle: "Answering the Toughest Questions About Intelligent Design". In other words, TDR is a FAQ of sorts, and a much better one than most. But still the Darwinists aren't satisfied and still they make the bogus claim that the "tough" questions haven't been answered. It isn't that those questions haven't been answsered; its that the Darwinists don't like the answers.DonaldM
September 13, 2005
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I was directed to this link about the EF http://www.talkdesign.org/faqs/theftovertoil/theftovertoil.htmlAlan Fox
September 12, 2005
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Sridian Thanks for the link. However the paper is dated 1996. I would have thought a successful application of the explanatory filter to a biological system would be an event of some importance, a milestone in ID's progress. I've read the paper, and I've read through the bulk of Salvador Cordova's material at ARN. Unless I've missed something, there is nothing to indicate such an event. Donald M Wouldn't a FAQ be a simple way to counter the Darwinist claims. You only need to post the answer once. You can revise it as matters progress. What is the problem with that. It would render the charge of never answering awkward questions invalid.Alan Fox
September 12, 2005
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Alan Fox wrote: "Amongst all the vitriol, do you ever consider there might even be one question woth answering? The claim that I see most often repeated is that you have never addressed criticism of your work directly." One trend I've noticed among Darwinists is that they are never satisfied with any response and continually whine that "so and so has never answered his/her critics." What that charge boils down to is that responses did not meet the unspoken expectations of the critics or that they didn't like the answer they got. Rather than respond on the merits of the response, the Darwinists (of the Panda's Thumb variety) continue to misrepresent the case and claim that "Dembski hasn't responded to his critics" or "Behe has never answered so and so" or my favorite "[some big Darwinian name] has totally eviscerated Dembski (or Behe or Wells or some other ID proponent)." Whenever I see language like that, I know someone is bluffing big time. As has already been pointed out, the most signifcant questions have been answered. The Design Revolution is the best source for starters. Read my review of it posted at Amazon.com. Donald MDonaldM
September 12, 2005
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DaveScot: "NeoDarwinists are now denying microevolution." I read the article. I don't think they're DENYING microevolution; I just think they're touting it as something bigger than it really is. That's really nothing new. They just keep playing the same old pittiful cards because that's the hand they're stuck with, and there's nothing they can do about it. Davidcrandaddy
September 12, 2005
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The analysis Fox asks after is in chapter 5 of No Free Lunch.JaredL
September 12, 2005
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Alan, as I mentioned above, Dr. Dembski or anyone else cannot serve as your research assistants. Answers to your questions are given more than three years ago (if my memory serves me) and are compiled in "The Design Revolution". You may want to have a look at chapters 11 and 12 in the book, to have a good understanding of the issues involved (one being important to me is that Explanatory Filter does NOT separate design, chance and necessity as mutually exclusive). Also this paper is informative http://www.arn.org/docs/dembski/wd_explfilter.htm At www.arn.org and www.iscid.org you'll find many interesting papers on the subject. Good hunting.Srdjan
September 12, 2005
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Sridian My previous response seems to have disappeared. I would like to know if the explanatory filter has been successfully applied to a biological system. I am also wondering how you define the boundary of such a system. For example the bacterial flagellum. Does one focus on the structure in a cell, the cell, a culture of cells, the phenotype of a particular bacterium or is it more abstract?Alan Fox
September 12, 2005
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Doctor Dembski,you know perfectly well how much i admire your scientific work and hope for your professional success.But let me express my personal opinion that citing quotes from people like richard dawkins is not going to promote your plans.The only thing that you can accomplish this way is making yourself a target of these people and giving them a chance to abuse you in the pandasthumb weblog.With all due respect,Nikolaos s. Stathopoulos.n.stathopoulos
September 12, 2005
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NeoDarwinists are now denying microevolution. http://www.pandasthumb.org/archives/2005/09/wake_up_and_sme.html Incredible.DaveScot
September 12, 2005
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I'm not sure I understand the analogy, Bill. Wouldn't introducing an inaccuracy to your proof render it incorrect and, thus, count against you? I just don't see how it could help relieve stress, or maybe I just don't understand the testing protocol. Davidcrandaddy
September 11, 2005
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Lighten up Jim. I'm going on The Daily Show tomorrow and need some practise. Serious work will resume in due course.William Dembski
September 11, 2005
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Anyone else notice the lowering of standards on this board over the last few days?jimpressario
September 11, 2005
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From The Odyssey, by Homer: "I was driven thence by foul winds for a space of nine days upon the sea, but on the tenth day we reached the land of the Lotus-eater, who live on a food that comes from a kind of flower. Here we landed to take in fresh water, and our crews got their mid-day meal on the shore near the ships. When they had eaten and drunk I sent two of my company to see what manner of men the people of the place might be, and they had a third man under them. They started at once, and went about among the Lotus-eaters, who did them no hurt, but gave them to eat of the lotus, which was so delicious that those who ate of it left off caring about home, and did not even want to go back and say what had happened to them, but were for staying and munching lotus with the Lotus-eater without thinking further of their return; nevertheless, though they wept bitterly I forced them back to the ships and made them fast under the benches. Then I told the rest to go on board at once, lest any of them should taste of the lotus and leave off wanting to get home, so they took their places and smote the grey sea with their oars. http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~joelja/odyssey.htmlMGD
September 11, 2005
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...reality therapy they need to exit the land of the lotus eaters and return to Ithaca hey! whats with the Ithaca crack! (LOL) If you just read the Ithaca Journal, you don't know the half of the vitriolic hatred for ID within this community. But you're right - Ithaca is a beautiful community, save for the abject anger of the Neo-Deo community. [[Wrong Ithaca! --WmAD]]ajl
September 11, 2005
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Dr. Dembski, You suggest that you offer advice to ID theorists: "a few things that may usefully be imparted to bright and budding ID theorists". It would probably be more useful for budding theorists to learn probability theory, don't you think ? While rhetorical tricks are certainly useful in winning public arguments, I don't see how they are relevant to pushing the field of ID from a scientific viewpoint. One problem in ID, that could use some additional work, seems to be determining how one can decide whether or not all possible chance hypothesis (and thus, the probability under all chance hypothesis being correctly calculated) have been eliminated before making the design inference. To work on this issue, a budding design theorist would do better to also spend time learning about stochastic processes, Bayesian inference, etc. , as well as much of the evolutionary theory, such as population genetics. By doing so, one should be able to push your theories forward. For example, considering the flagellum, how does one calculate the probability of the flagellum evolving given what we know about genetic drift, recombination etc ? In short, developing more realistic models of evolution, as Behe states is necessary at the end of his Protein Science paper. [[Germline: You are very boring. Goodbye. --WmAD]]germline
September 11, 2005
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Master Obiwan, your apprentices appreciate your many apprentiship lessons, we will learn the ways of the force and become great Jedis! You described accurately the plight of an aspiring Jedi: "A bright young novice to this debate comes along, makes an otherwise persuasive argument, and finds it immediately shot down. Substantive objections are bypassed. Irrelevancies are stressed. Tables are turned. Misrepresentations abound. One’s competence and expertise are belittled. The novice comes back, reframes the argument, clarifies key points, attempts to answer objections, and encounters the same treatment." But then you said, "The solution, therefore, is to change the context of discourse....Critics and enemies are useful. The point is to use them effectively. In our case, this is remarkably easy to do." Indeed, it is easier to do than I ever dreamed. Your apprentices will continue advancing the truth, they will proclaim it in the campuses, make the cover stories of magazines, and be on nationally syndicated news programs, all the while making good use of critics and enemies in the process. Here is something else I found which might be useful to the apprentices. I did a little spying and discovered the Manual of Standard Operating Practices for Darwin Defenders (MSOPDD). A repackaged, politically correct copy of the original appears here: http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/logic.html Salvador Cordovascordova
September 11, 2005
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Alan Fox said: "...do you ever consider there might even be one question worth answering? The claim that I see most often repeated is that you have never addressed criticism of your work directly." If you follow this debate carefully you will notice that most questions are answered in Dr. Dembski's books, "Design Revolution" in particular as well on his web site www.designinference.com Surely you don't expect him to answer them individually to anyone who just want to have a bash at ID or at him personally. Most but not all questions addressed to Dr. Dembski show appalling ignorance towards ID claims and current status of debate. Ones that have bearing on ID issues are answered quite promptly. What questions did you have in mind Alan?Srdjan
September 11, 2005
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Alan: With regard to responding to critics directly, it's happened on this blog (https://uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/103) and it's happened on my designinference.com website (Ken Miller, Howard Van Till, Richard Wein, etc.). And then there's my book THE DESIGN REVOLUTION. Have you read any of these?William Dembski
September 11, 2005
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