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The “is-ought” problem. Is it a true dichotomy or a deceptive bluff?

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It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble, it’s what you do know that just ain’t so. — Mark Twain

According to the overrated philosopher, David Hume, we should not try to draw logical conclusions about objective morality based on our knowledge of the real world. This was his smug way of claiming that humans are incapable of knowing the difference between right and wrong.

Through the years, his devoted followers have tweaked his message into a flat out declaration: We cannot derive an “ought to” (a moral code) from the “is.” (the way things are). Just to make sure that we don’t misunderstand, they characterize this formulation as “Hume’s Law.”

The only problem with this philosophy is that it is tragically, clumsily, and inexcusably—wrong. On the contrary, we can learn a great deal about the moral law from the observable facts of nature as long as we acknowledge the point that some truths are self-evident.

Unfortunately, hyper-skeptics cannot grasp this point because they first fail to understand that morality is a measure of, and is dependent on, what is good. If there is no (objective) good, then morality cannot exist. But we know that some things, such as life, are obviously good for humans – universally, absolutely, and objectively good. It is the same for goods that flow from life, such as the desire to survive and reproduce. As would be expected of objectively good things, they exist in a hierarchy, which means that we can differentiate between lower goods (wants) and higher goods (needs).

People want food that is pleasing to the palate, for example, but they need food that meets their nutritional requirements. The latter good is more important than the former, even if it is not perceived to be so. If one allows his desire for pleasure to overpower his desire for good health, he will eventually lose the capacity to be pleased and the opportunity to be healthy. It is self-evident to any rational person that the desire for long-term health is a higher good than the desire for momentary pleasure.

So it is with sex. Humans may want to experience immediate physical gratification, but if they ignore the higher needs, such as the desire for love and respect, they will harm themselves and others. Sexual responsibility is less about submitting to the technology of birth control and more about responding to the challenge of self-disciplined behavior.

Again, through nature, we learn that the good of procreation is made possible by the complementarity of the species. That is why a marriage is properly defined as the union of one man and one woman: the difference between them allows them to unite in one flesh. Two members of the same sex cannot become one flesh because it is the complementarity that makes the oneness possible. From Biology, we also discover that sex has a specific function, which means that it can be misused by those who do not respect its intended purpose.

From the all this information about the “is,” (complementarity and biology) we can derive four distinct moral conclusions: [a] Men should not have sex with men. [b] Women should not have sex with women. [c] Same sex marriage cannot and does not exist. [d] Any law that defines so-called “gay marriage” as a true marriage is an evil lie and should be resisted.

In a broader sense, the lower goods, such as fun, pleasure, and delight, are designed as an incentive for pursuing the higher goods, such as love, self-esteem, self-control, meaning, and purpose, which are the ones that matter most in any discussion of morality. Because we really need them, they are good for us and we ought to have them. As Mortimer Adler says, we ought to desire whatever is really good for us and nothing else.

From the testimony of social scientists, we learn that humans are social beings, so we may safely conclude that they ought to reproduce, build families and establish communities. In every area of life, there are legitimate moral needs that ought to be pursued and illegitimate wants that ought to be eschewed.

Moral growth, therefore, involves a definitive behavioral strategy: We should learn to like what is good for us and to dislike what is bad for us. In other words, we should form good habits so that they will crowd out the bad habits. Nature not only teaches us about the need for virtue, it also helps us to acquire it through practice. Psychologists tell us that it takes three to six weeks to form a new habit.

The take home message, then, should be clear: Beware of the hyper-skeptical doctrine that goes by the name of Hume’s “law.” The so-called “is – ought” dichotomy is a deceptive bluff. It poses no intellectual challenge to the natural moral law or the human capacity to apprehend it.

 

 

Comments
of related note, William Lane Craig has done fairly extensive work on "The Moral Argument" which has now been distilled into this easy to understand animated video:
The Moral Argument https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxiAikEk2vU
Also of note from Dr Craig's animated video series:
Suffering and Evil: The Logical Problem https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k64YJYBUFLM&index=7&list=PL3gdeV4Rk9EfL-NyraEGXXwSjDNeMaRoX Suffering and Evil: The Probability Version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxj8ag8Ntd4&list=PL3gdeV4Rk9EfL-NyraEGXXwSjDNeMaRoX&index=8
bornagain77
June 19, 2018
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Barry @ 34, From what I have seen from what he has said here in the past (when he occasionally parachutes in,) MatSpirit only believes in MatSpirit. He doesn’t offer any basis for interpersonal moral obligation or universal human rights… He is only here to tear down what other people-- specifically, theists-- believe. He has no solutions for the moral crisis to that confronts the human race. But he does feel smug, self-righteous and morally superior to other people… That’s what I would guess that he really believes. If I’m wrong he is more than welcome to explain to us what he really thinks and believes. Will he? I doubt it.john_a_designer
June 19, 2018
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StephenB @ 3 - first, sorry for the delay in replying - between visiting a farming shop, shouting at English footballers and interviews I've been busy. Anyway -
Bad logic, Life is good for a fetus. Life is also good for a mother. That doesn’t mean that rape, a bad act, is a good act if it happens to produce a positive effect along with all the obvious bad effects. Bad acts can produce some positive consequences, just as good acts can produce some negative consequences.
But a mother who has been raped doesn't (usually) lose her life. And she (and her rapist) have reproduced, which are both, according to you, good, and indeed higher goods. So what are the "bad effects"? You write
But we know that some things, such as life, are obviously good for humans – universally, absolutely, and objectively good. It is the same for goods that flow from life, such as the desire to survive and reproduce. As would be expected of objectively good things, they exist in a hierarchy, which means that we can differentiate between lower goods (wants) and higher goods (needs).
So if survival and reproduction are higher goods, what about these unstated "bad effects"? They would seem to be lower goods, as they are not needs. Or is there some other higher good that you have missed out?Bob O'H
June 19, 2018
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The origin of the concepts of good and bad is our ability to feel pleasure and pain. That which gives us or others pleasure we call good, that which causes us or others pain we call bad. If we couldn't feel pleasure and pain, good and bad would make no sense. So in that sense good and bad are absolute, but the complexity of life makes them subjective and relative like most other things - some experiences are better or worse than others. Some believe that pleasure is a sin (bad), others that self-inflicted pain is a virtue (good).rado
June 19, 2018
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John @ 33. He says that certain actions he condemns are objectively wrong. Sounds like he believes morals are objective.Barry Arrington
June 19, 2018
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Barry Arrington,
MatSpirit @ 31: I see you believe morals are objective.
Does he? I doubt it.john_a_designer
June 19, 2018
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MatSpirit @ 31: I see you believe morals are objective. Good. Objective morals are, by definition, based on a transcendent moral standard. You and I as humans have no ability to create a transcendent moral standard. A transcendent moral standard can be created only by a transcendent being.Barry Arrington
June 19, 2018
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Barry @13: "But if God commanded someone to kill homosexuals, women who aren’t virgins on their wedding night and children who disrespect their parents, would that be objectively bad?" Yes, just as bad as God supposedly killing the first born in every family in Egypt, even though the vast majority of families had absolutely no influence on the Pharoah and after the Pharoah had already decided to release the Israelites at least twice until God hardened his heart and forced him to prolong the captivity until God had a chance to show off his power by murdering all those kids. A lot more than died at Columbine. What in the world makes you think God has good morals? Certainly not reading the Bible. Do you think it was moral for God to allow Satan to kill all of Job's children? How about if it was your children? Do you think letting Job and his wife have more children made up for murdering his original kids? Richard Dawkins is not just flapping his gums when he says, "The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” He's read the Bible. You should try it sometime.MatSpirit
June 19, 2018
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OLV @ 20, Thank you. The thread you cited does not contain quite the same subject matter as my current offering. There is some some similarity, however, in the sense that both discuss elements of moral hierarchies and the kind of language that reflect them, such as "better," safer," "more beneficial," etc.StephenB
June 18, 2018
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Allan Keith
Your bible says that killing homosexuals is objectively good, yet you are not willing to admit this.
The bible does not say that killing homosexuals is an objectively good thing. If you disagree, I will ask you to quote the chapter and verse you had in mind. Meanwhile, if God kills or orders the killing of anyone, or any group, for whatever reason He chooses, it is his moral privilege as Creator to take back the life he has given to the creature. It is not theirs to keep, but it is his to either preserve or take away. You seem to be confused about the ownership issue. Indeed, all God has to do to kill anyone is to simply withhold the sustaining power that has been keeping that person alive. You don't appreciate your humble role as a creature, but that is what you are (and what I am). A wise man is grateful for the life he has been given, but you seem to think you (or others) are entitled to it. You (or the homosexuals that you weep over) are entitled to nothing. The thing God cares about most is where you spend eternity, not how many days you spend on this earth. It may well be that those who live a long life will lose their souls while those who depart early will be saved. Perhaps he times their death to their advantage. God has perfect knowledge about what the ultimate consequences of his acts might be. You cannot know any of these things. The only thing that you really have complete control over are the moral choices that you make every day, and it is those choices that will determine your ultimate destiny.StephenB
June 18, 2018
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Barry,
Allan, if you want to continue posting on this site, you will apologize to BA77 for your trollish post at 14.
Nah. I don’t think so. Most of your long threads in the last few years have been due to me, or others like me, disagreeing with the creationist view. Good luck with batshitcrazy77 and Gordon Mullings, the intellectual brain trust of UD. Hopefully nobody dislocates a shoulder patting themselves on the back. But, they are getting older.???? Bye bye. I have a life to get back to. But don’t worry. I still have six unused socks. UD Editors: Allan is no longer with us. His unused socks will be booted in due course too.Allan Keith
June 18, 2018
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Several years ago on a different site I got into a discussion about same sex marriage. Our interlocutor responded to a question in the OP.
Here’s an answer to your question… There is nothing “essentially true” about marriage. Marriage is what we agree it is (or what most of us agree it is.) There is no “essential truth” about anything.
I replied: It is self-refuting to say there is ”no ‘essential truth’ about anything.” Didn’t you notice that you’re making an essential [indeed universal] truth claim about truth. Furthermore it takes the legs out from under every argument you have been making. Why should I even consider an argument that’s not true? This is why I have given up trying to argue with moral subjectivists. They don’t understand the irrationality of their argument. Logic 101 says you can’t prove anything deductively unless you begin with a factually true or self-evidently true premise. Again, the premise there is “no ‘essential truth’ about anything,” is self-refuting, which is basically the argument the subjectivist is making about moral truth. All the subjectivist has are moral opinions he believes are true for him. However, no-one else is obligated to accept his moral opinions. The subjectivist is then left with a morality that has no moral obligation. What value is such a moral system?john_a_designer
June 18, 2018
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Allan, if you want to continue posting on this site, you will apologize to BA77 for your trollish post at 14.Barry Arrington
June 18, 2018
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Readers, Allan Keith can't help himself. He quotes the golden rule at 19 as if it is an objectively good moral rule, and so it is. And his whole purpose in quoting it is because he believes it is a superior rule to his (imagined) rule Christians hold. And then he says his adherence to that rule is merely a subjective preference. Once again Allan appeals to objective moral rules even as he denies they exist. You can't make this stuff up. Barry: I am not going to argue theology with you. Allan: That would be wise. Barry: Indeed, wise in the same way that not trying to each a pig to sing is wise. It does no good and it annoys the pig.Barry Arrington
June 18, 2018
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Mike,
Actually, this was part of the Law of Moses that was only intended for Israel, not the world in general.
I realize this. But was it not an instruction from god? The same god as the Christian god? The inerrant god? My only point is that the scriptures against homosexuality come from the same parts of scripture that prescribe the punishment. Jesus doesn’t say a word about homosexuality. If he changed his mind about the punishment, how do you know that he didn’t change his mind about the sin?Allan Keith
June 18, 2018
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Mr. Arrington per Allan Keith's post at 14. I ask that Allan Keith be removed from UD if he continues his trollish behavior towards me. This is the second time he has responded in such a juvenile manner towards one of my posts.bornagain77
June 18, 2018
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Allen Keith: Your bible says that killing homosexuals is objectively good, yet you are not willing to admit this. Actually, this was part of the Law of Moses that was only intended for Israel, not the world in general. Most Orthodox Jews acknowledge this. Christians differ on this (I otherwise have no comment), but the Torah was never intended for the world at large, only Yahweh's covenant people.mike1962
June 18, 2018
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Bob O'H @1 A more general question: Why shouldn't the strong exploit the weak?mike1962
June 18, 2018
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StephenB: Interesting article you wrote. Thanks. BTW, how does it relate to this: https://uncommondescent.com/philosophy/responding-to-sev-moral-claims-are-not-about-what-is-but-about-how-we-ought-to-behave-primarily-towards-one-another-they-are-not-capable-of-being-either-true-or-false/OLV
June 18, 2018
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Barry,
I am not going to argue theology with you.
That would be wise.
Those words mean that your glandular impulses impel you not to prefer killing them.
If mischaracterization of my argument makes it easier to counter it, who am I to complain. It is your site.
Everyone knows you believe killing those people is really, objectively bad. We know that because the whole reason you keep trying to throw it in my face is that you believe it is objectively bad and therefore objectively morally indefensible.
Actually it is really quite simple. I believe that it is wrong for me to kill someone just because they find love and pleasure in the company of someone of the same sex, because I think it would be wrong for someone to kill me just because I find love and pleasure in the company of someone of the opposite sex. A completely subjective “preference” (although calling it a ‘glandular preference’ is an obvious juvenile rhetorical game).Allan Keith
June 18, 2018
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Allan, I am not going to argue theology with you. Your ignorance when it comes to a proper interpretation of the Bible is invincible. You can keep trying to change the subject, but everyone knows that is what you are doing. "No. I argue that killing them is subjectively bad." Those words mean that your glandular impulses impel you not to prefer killing them. I am sure you will agree that what your glandular impulses impel you not to prefer is meaningless to me and certainly not binding in any meaningful sense. Yet you treat your preference as if it should be my preference too. Again, you are arguing for objective morality even as you deny that it exists. Everyone knows you believe killing those people is really, objectively bad. We know that because the whole reason you keep trying to throw it in my face is that you believe it is objectively bad and therefore objectively morally indefensible. [Never mind that you keep trying to ascribe to me a position that I do not hold.] You are not treating it as a matter of subjective preference at all. You would never dream of throwing my subjective preference for beagles in my face by comparing it with your subjective preference for poodles.Barry Arrington
June 18, 2018
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Barry,
You keep arguing as if killing those people is objectively bad and then you say you will stick to your subjective morality.
No. I argue that killing them is subjectively bad. It is you that is confused on the issue. Your bible says that killing homosexuals is objectively good, yet you are not willing to admit this.
It always amazes me when people like you don’t seem to realize their arguments absolutely depend on affirming the very thing they are attempting to deny.
Does not your argument depend on denying that killing homosexuals is a good thing? Or are you going to affirm the scriptures you so firmly believe in and support the killing of homosexuals? Your morality is really very... contradictory?Allan Keith
June 18, 2018
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Allan: You keep arguing as if killing those people is objectively bad and then you say you will stick to your subjective morality. It always amazes me when people like you don't seem to realize their arguments absolutely depend on affirming the very thing they are attempting to deny. Allan, when you can give me a reason why I should care about the products of your glandular impulses, drop me a memo. In the mean time, keep on arguing as if the term "my morality" means something more than "the product of my glandular impulses." Maybe one of these days you will trip over the contradiction between the unspoken premises of your arguments and the conclusions you espouse.Barry Arrington
June 18, 2018
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Barry,
You are wrong. God has never commanded me to do any of those things.
But he commanded thousands of others to do so. You obviously didn’t get the memo.
But if God commanded someone to kill homosexuals, women who aren’t virgins on their wedding night and children who disrespect their parents, would that be objectively bad?
You should ask people who believe in objective morality. As someone who believes in objective morality, I must conclude that if god commanded this, you would have to believe that it is objectively good.
So, to answer your question, the morality that I espouse is better than the morality that you espouse, because by “morality” I mean something more than “my glandular impulses.”
Yet the morality that you “espouse” would justify the stoning of homosexuals, women who are not virgins on their wedding night and children who disrespect their parents if the voice in your head told you to. I will stick to my subjective morality, thank you.Allan Keith
June 18, 2018
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BA77@11 and 12, nice example of the Gish gallop, Trump tirade, Mullings meander... Just joking. I will respond when you provide something of worth to respond to.Allan Keith
June 18, 2018
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Allan Keith at 10. You are wrong. God has never commanded me to do any of those things. But if God commanded someone to kill homosexuals, women who aren’t virgins on their wedding night and children who disrespect their parents, would that be objectively bad? Presumably, you will answer "no" since you have repeatedly informed us that objective morality does not exist. Why should anyone care about your glandular impulses about these matters? I can't think of a good reason. So, to answer your question, the morality that I espouse is better than the morality that you espouse, because by "morality" I mean something more than "my glandular impulses."Barry Arrington
June 18, 2018
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As well, loving others is shown to have a significant beneficial effect on our own health as well as on the health of those we choose to love:
ABC News - The Science Behind the Healing Power of Love - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t1p-PwGgE4 Study finds it actually is better (and healthier) to give than to receive – February 4, 2013 Excerpt: A five-year study by researchers at three universities has established that providing tangible assistance to others protects our health and lengthens our lives. http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-02-healthier.html
Whereas social isolation is shown to have a tremendous negative impact on our health:
The Secret to Living Longer may be Socialization - TED video https://www.ted.com/talks/susan_pinker_the_secret_to_living_longer_may_be_your_social_life/transcript?language=en Social isolation and its health implications January 2012 Excerpt: Studies show that social isolation and/or loneliness predict morbidity and mortality from cancer, cardiovascular disease, and a host of other diseases. In fact, the body perceives loneliness as a threat. Research from the University of California suggests that loneliness or lack of social support could triple the odds of being diagnosed with a heart condition. Redford Williams and his colleagues at Duke University directed a study in 1992 on heart patients and their relationships. They discovered that 50% of patients with heart disease who did not have a spouse or someone to confide in died within five years, while only 17% of those who did have a confidante died in the same time period.12 http://www.how-to-be-healthy.org/social-isolation-and-its-health-implications/
Along that line of evidence, “those middle-aged adults who go to church, synagogues, mosques or other houses of worship reduce their mortality risk by 55%.”
Can attending church really help you live longer? This study says yes - June 1, 2017 Excerpt: Specifically, the study says those middle-aged adults who go to church, synagogues, mosques or other houses of worship reduce their mortality risk by 55%. The Plos One journal published the "Church Attendance, Allostatic Load and Mortality in Middle Aged Adults" study May 16. "For those who did not attend church at all, they were twice as likely to die prematurely than those who did who attended church at some point over the last year," Bruce said. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/06/02/can-attending-church-really-help-you-live-longer-study-says-yes/364375001/
Besides this physical evidence, we also now have evidence that our sense of morality transcends space and time:
Quantum Consciousness – Time Flies Backwards? – Stuart Hameroff MD Excerpt: Dean Radin and Dick Bierman have performed a number of experiments of emotional response in human subjects. The subjects view a computer screen on which appear (at randomly varying intervals) a series of images, some of which are emotionally neutral, and some of which are highly emotional (violent, sexual….). In Radin and Bierman’s early studies, skin conductance of a finger was used to measure physiological response They found that subjects responded strongly to emotional images compared to neutral images, and that the emotional response occurred between a fraction of a second to several seconds BEFORE the image appeared! Recently Professor Bierman (University of Amsterdam) repeated these experiments with subjects in an fMRI brain imager and found emotional responses in brain activity up to 4 seconds before the stimuli. Moreover he looked at raw data from other laboratories and found similar emotional responses before stimuli appeared. http://www.quantumconsciousness.org/views/TimeFlies.html Can Your Body Sense Future Events Without Any External Clue? (meta-analysis of 26 reports published between 1978 and 2010) – (Oct. 22, 2012) Excerpt: “But our analysis suggests that if you were tuned into your body, you might be able to detect these anticipatory changes between two and 10 seconds beforehand,,, This phenomenon is sometimes called “presentiment,” as in “sensing the future,” but Mossbridge said she and other researchers are not sure whether people are really sensing the future. “I like to call the phenomenon ‘anomalous anticipatory activity,’” she said. “The phenomenon is anomalous, some scientists argue, because we can’t explain it using present-day understanding about how biology works; though explanations related to recent quantum biological findings could potentially make sense. It’s anticipatory because it seems to predict future physiological changes in response to an important event without any known clues, and it’s an activity because it consists of changes in the cardiopulmonary, skin and nervous systems.” http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/10/121022145342.htm
It is also interesting to note that all the preceding empirical findings pretty much fit hand in glove with what the Christian Theist would presuppose about objective morality:
Matthew 22:36-40 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Of final note, Despite what is commonly believed, of someone trying to be 'good enough' to go to heaven, in reality both Mother Teresa and Hitler fall short of the moral perfection required to meet God's perfect standard. Only Jesus lived a perfectly sinless life. And only he can 'impart' the moral perfection on us that is required for us to dwell in the presence of the infinitely good, just, and holy God. This imparting of moral perfection onto us is known as propitiation:
Falling Plates (the grace of propitiation) - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGlx11BxF24
That Jesus has the right to replace our sin with His righteousness so that we might forever dwell with God in heaven is evidenced by the fact that the words "The Lamb" are found on the Shroud of Turin:
Turin Shroud Hologram Reveals The Words "The Lamb" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tmka1l8GAQ 2 Corinthians 5:21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
bornagain77
June 18, 2018
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Atheistic materialists/Darwinists deny the reality of objective morality and say that all morality is, ultimately, subjective and illusory. Of course, as regulars on UD know, the Atheist/Darwinist constantly defeats his own argument against the reality of objective morality by the many times he uses 'the argument from evil' to try to argue against the reality of God. Simply put, if good and evil exist, God exists!
If Good and Evil Exist, God Exists: - Peter Kreeft - Prager University - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xliyujhwhNM “My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust?” - C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity
Ever since Darwin, one of the top (self-defeating) arguments from atheists against God has been the argument from evil:
Charles Darwin, Theologian: Major New Article on Darwin's Use of Theology in the Origin of Species - May 2011 Excerpt: The Origin supplies abundant evidence of theology in action; as Dilley observes:,,, 9. A 'distant' God is not morally culpable for natural pain and suffering. 10. The God of special creation, who allegedly performed miracles in organic history, is not plausible given the presence of natural pain and suffering. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2011/05/charles_darwin_theologian_majo046391.html Methodological Naturalism: A Rule That No One Needs or Obeys - Paul Nelson - September 22, 2014 Excerpt: It is a little-remarked but nonetheless deeply significant irony that evolutionary biology is the most theologically entangled science going. Open a book like Jerry Coyne's Why Evolution is True (2009) or John Avise's Inside the Human Genome (2010), and the theology leaps off the page. A wise creator, say Coyne, Avise, and many other evolutionary biologists, would not have made this or that structure; therefore, the structure evolved by undirected processes. Coyne and Avise, like many other evolutionary theorists going back to Darwin himself, make numerous "God-wouldn't-have-done-it-that-way" arguments, thus predicating their arguments for the creative power of natural selection and random mutation on implicit theological assumptions about the character of God and what such an agent (if He existed) would or would not be likely to do.,,, ,,,with respect to one of the most famous texts in 20th-century biology, Theodosius Dobzhansky's essay "Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution" (1973). Although its title is widely cited as an aphorism, the text of Dobzhansky's essay is rarely read. It is, in fact, a theological treatise. As Dilley (2013, p. 774) observes: "Strikingly, all seven of Dobzhansky's arguments hinge upon claims about God's nature, actions, purposes, or duties. In fact, without God-talk, the geneticist's arguments for evolution are logically invalid. In short, theology is essential to Dobzhansky's arguments.",, http://www.evolutionnews.org/2014/09/methodological_1089971.html Elite Scientists Don’t Have Elite Reasons for Being Atheists - November 8, 2016 Excerpt: What I found was 50 elite scientists expressing their personal opinions, but none had some powerful argument or evidence to justify their opinions. In fact, most did not even cite a reason for thinking atheism was true.,,, The few that did try to justify their atheism commonly appealed to God of the Gaps arguments (there is no need for God, therefore God does not exist) and the Argument from Evil (our bad world could not have come from an All Loving, All Powerful God). In other words, it is just as I thought it would be. Yes, most elite scientists and scholars are atheists. But their reasons for being atheists and agnostics are varied and often personal. And their typical arguments are rather common and shallow – god of the gaps and the existence of evil. It would seem clear that their expertise and elite status is simply not a causal factor behind their atheism. Finally, it is also clear the militant atheism of Dawkins is a distinct minority view among these scholars. https://shadowtolight.wordpress.com/2016/11/08/elite-scientists-dont-have-elite-reasons-for-being-atheists/
And although the fact that atheists themselves appeal to morality to try to argue against the reality of God is more than enough to validate the Christian Theists contention that morality is, in fact, objectively real, nowadays we can go one step further and appeal directly to empirical evidence to support the reality of objective morality. For instance, since unguided Darwinian processes have never shown the origination of a single gene/protein, then it is very interesting to note that the genetic responses of humans are intelligently designed in a very sophisticated way so as to differentiate between hedonic and ‘noble’ moral happiness:
Human Cells Respond in Healthy, Unhealthy Ways to Different Kinds of Happiness - July 29, 2013 Excerpt: Human bodies recognize at the molecular level that not all happiness is created equal, responding in ways that can help or hinder physical health,,, The sense of well-being derived from “a noble purpose” may provide cellular health benefits, whereas “simple self-gratification” may have negative effects, despite an overall perceived sense of happiness, researchers found.,,, But if all happiness is created equal, and equally opposite to ill-being, then patterns of gene expression should be the same regardless of hedonic or eudaimonic well-being. Not so, found the researchers. Eudaimonic well-being was, indeed, associated with a significant decrease in the stress-related CTRA gene expression profile. In contrast, hedonic well-being was associated with a significant increase in the CTRA profile. Their genomics-based analyses, the authors reported, reveal the hidden costs of purely hedonic well-being.,, “We can make ourselves happy through simple pleasures, but those ‘empty calories’ don’t help us broaden our awareness or build our capacity in ways that benefit us physically,” she said. “At the cellular level, our bodies appear to respond better to a different kind of well-being, one based on a sense of connectedness and purpose.” http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/07/130729161952.htm
And although Atheists will often maintain that (subjective) morality must be taught to us as children, even toddlers display a highly developed sense of ‘moral justice’:
The Moral Life of Babies – May 2010 Excerpt: From Sigmund Freud to Jean Piaget to Lawrence Kohlberg, psychologists have long argued that we begin life as amoral animals.,,, A growing body of evidence, though, suggests that humans do have a rudimentary moral sense from the very start of life. With the help of well-designed experiments, you can see glimmers of moral thought, moral judgment and moral feeling even in the first year of life. Some sense of good and evil seems to be bred in the bone.,,, Despite their overall preference for good actors over bad, then, babies are drawn to bad actors when those actors are punishing bad behavior. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/09/magazine/09babies-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
In fact, a caring, loving, touch from the baby towards the mother's uterine wall is found very early on in a baby's development:
Wired to Be Social: The Ontogeny of Human Interaction - 2010 Excerpt: Kinematic analysis revealed that movement duration was longer and deceleration time was prolonged for other-directed movements compared to movements directed towards the uterine wall. Similar kinematic profiles were observed for movements directed towards the co-twin and self-directed movements aimed at the eye-region, i.e. the most delicate region of the body. http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0013199
bornagain77
June 18, 2018
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Barry,
They have been trying for years to demonstrate that their materialist morality is grounded in something more firm than glandular impulses.
As opposed to the morality from a nebulous Christian god that commands us to kill homosexuals, women who aren’t virgins on their wedding night and children who disrespect their parents? Feel free to explain why your morality is better than mine.Allan Keith
June 18, 2018
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SB: On the contrary, we can learn a great deal about the moral law from the observable facts of nature as long as we acknowledge the point that some truths are self-evident. Allan
Yes, there are self evident truths. If I die before puberty I will not have children is a self evident truth. But the fact that there are self evident truths does not translate into “morality must be objective”.
It does if the self-evident truth in question happen to be a moral truth. That life is a good thing for humans is an objective moral truth.StephenB
June 18, 2018
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