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Theism, atheism and morality

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As I see it, the current discussion about the relation between theism, atheism and morality is bedeviled by two false and often unexamined assumptions.

First, it is assumed that if an act is self-evidently wrong, then that counts against a theistic account of morality.

Second, it is assumed that if a theistic account of morality is correct, moral injunctions must be derived from the fact that God exists.

In support of the first assumption, it is sometimes argued that if an action (such as torturing babies) is self-evidently wrong, then not only theists but also atheists can recognize it as wrong – in which case, we can know that the action is wrong without having to invoke God’s will in order to support our claim.

But we might still need to posit the existence of God in order to explain the fact that there are actions that are morally right and wrong, even if we can easily recognize which acts are right and wrong without first having to ask what God wants.

The second assumption envisages moral injunctions as if they were Divine decrees. But moral norms can presuppose the existence of God, without necessarily being decreed by God.

Let’s suppose that some actions are self-evidently wrong, and let us also grant that not only theists but also atheists can know that these acts are wrong. Before the atheists start smugly congratulating themselves for arriving at a knowledge of these moral norms without having to posit God, they should ask themselves this simple question:

Isn’t it a very startling fact that there are normative statements about the world which are true?

Norms aren’t just descriptive; they are also prescriptive. If norms are part of the “warp-and-woof” of reality, then we can actually formulate true statements about what beings of a certain kind (e.g. humans) ought to do and ought not to do.

This is very, very odd. Where on earth do these “oughts” come from? Are they grounded in individuals’ wants, perhaps?

They certainly don’t come from the wants of people who have moral obligations. If they did, then first of all, our having those obligations would be contingent upon our wanting certain goods, which would seriously weaken the claim that moral norms containing these “oughts” are self-evident, as people want very different things; and secondly, we could only know the truth of these moral norms via an indirect process of introspection, rather than knowing them immediately, as we claim to do.

Do these “oughts” spring from the wants of the subjects towards whom we have these obligations – in other words, the wants of “morally significant others”? Again, the answer has to be no. If that were the case, then the applicability of moral norms relating to these subjects would rest upon the (contingent) fact that they always want certain goods (which is empirically doubtful). It would also follow that we could only know the truth of moral norms relating to these “morally significant others” by first figuring out what they wanted – which conflicts with the common experience we have of knowing these norms immediately, and without having to inquire about anyone’s wants.

Let me give a simple example. Let’s suppose that a baby is in hospital, because of breathing-related problems. A Bird VIP Infant ventilator (like the one illustrated above, courtesy of Brian Hall and Wikipedia) moves breathable air into and out of the baby’s lungs, as the baby is physically unable to breathe. You’re a nurse on night duty in the hospital’s neonatal ward. You suddenly notice that one of the tubes that was connected to the baby has fallen out. The baby is still asleep. What do you do? It’s a no-brainer. You re-insert the tube, of course! You didn’t have to ask yourself what you wanted, or what the baby wanted. That’s because you already knew what the baby needed.

Are moral norms grounded in the needs of others, as opposed to their wants? This makes a lot more sense. But this answer does not go far enough. What makes a need normative, after all?

Needs are normative, insofar as they relate to an individual’s thriving, or flourishing. Put simply, when an individual’s needs are not met, it fails to thrive. Moral norms, then, ultimately rest on facts relating to individuals’ conditions of thriving.

Now, in order to ascertain what makes an individual thrive, we need to know what kind of thing it is – in other words, what its nature is. The nature of a dog, which needs meat and daily exercise, is obviously very different from that of a sloth, which needs neither.

The conclusion we seem to have reached is this. A creature of a certain kind has conditions of thriving, which are based on the built-in ends (or if you will, the telos) that characterizes beings of that kind. These built-in ends are the foundations of moral norms relating to individuals of that kind.

What that means is that teleology is a basic and irreducible feature of the cosmos. That in itself is a very odd fact. There are classes (or kinds) of beings which cannot be characterized in descriptive terms alone. In order to adequately characterize them, we need to refer to their built-in ends – in other words, we need to use prescriptive language.

An atheist may freely acknowledge that this is an odd and somewhat striking fact about the world, without feeling the slightest need to give up their atheism. But there’s more.

The mere fact that creatures of a certain kind have built-in ends could never serve as an adequate foundation for moral norms relating to those creatures. “What’s that got to do with us?” you might reasonably ask. “How do you derive a moral obligation on our part from the existence of a frustrated end, or an unmet need, on the part of some other individual – especially if that individual happens to be of a different kind from ourselves? Why should we care?”

There’s more. One could ask: “What’s to stop us from re-designing the nature of living things, and altering their built-in ends in a way that suits us?”

Here’s an example of what I mean. The philosopher Bernard Rollin has proposed that we should render food animals and experimental animals decerebrate (and thus incapable of pain) through genetic engineering. A decerebrate animal would now be a different kind of being, with a different (non-conscious) kind of functioning. We could enjoy the taste of meat, and no-one would be hurt. And yet, the idea of altering the basic nature of animals in such a fashion strikes most people as self-evidently wrong. But why?

There’s more. Someone might ask: “What’s to stop us from re-designing our psyches, so that the suffering of other needy individuals – especially individuals of a different kind from ourselves – no longer bothers us?” This isn’t as far-fetched as it might seem. According to a recent BBC news report, scientists writing in Brain magazine are claiming that psychopaths are capable of experiencing empathy – but unlike the rest of us, they can switch it on and off at will (Brain (2013) 136 (8): 2550-2562, doi: 10.1093/brain/awt190). What if we could make ourselves like that? Would it be wrong to re-fashion ourselves like that? If so, why?

The only way to put a stop to this line of questioning and to close the Pandora’s box that it opens is to posit that our own thriving, as human beings, is essentially linked with that of other beings, and that for us to stunt either their natures (e.g. by depriving sentient animals of the ability to feel) or our own (e.g. by making ourselves less empathetic) is to do irreparable harm to ourselves, irrespective of what other advantages we might gain (e.g. longevity or intelligence). Only if our well-being is essentially tied to that of other individuals – and even to that of other kinds of creatures – does it follow that we are bound to treat the built-in ends of creatures as morally normative. For if there are no essential ties of this kind between our natures and those of our fellow human beings and other morally significant creatures, then we are indeed free to redesign ourselves – and other creatures – as we wish.

Now, if atheistic readers of this post have followed my argument so far, they should be going green around the gills by now. It was odd enough that we live in a universe in which “ought” is just as basic as “is”, for living creatures. Now it turns out that our own well-being is so irrevocably tied to that of other morally significant beings in such a way that unless we respect their built-in ends, we will only end up harming ourselves.

In a godless universe, this would be an extremely fortuitous fact. We should not expect “Mother Nature” to have arranged things so perfectly: after all, Nature is blind and wholly lacking in intelligence. But in a theistic universe, this would be precisely the sort of thing we would expect a Deity to do, in order to curb the pretensions of any creatures (such as ourselves) that might grow “too big for their boots” and succumb to pride, in presuming to alter the plan laid down by the Author of Nature.

The upshot of the foregoing discussion is that although we can often know the content of our moral obligations immediately, without having to invoke God, and although these moral obligations are more than mere decrees that God might make or revoke at will, the fact that we have moral obligations, and that we are ethically bound to respect the norms built into Nature itself, can only be satisfactorily explained with reference to God.

It follows that if there are self-evident moral truths of the kind I have described above, then there must be a God, after all.

Comments
If there is such a thing as objective or absolute morality, surely the source must be independent from human imagination. Show me your sources, people!Alan Fox
July 30, 2013
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One simple standard Dr Liddle Love....Andre
July 30, 2013
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Barb:
Morality must have objective standards of right and wrong in order for it to flourish in civilized society.
So what are those standards?Elizabeth B Liddle
July 30, 2013
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vj At last someone has written something worth reading on this issue - thanks. Of course, I think it is wrong but it is thoughtful and original (I believe I have followed it and I am not green around the gills). Actually I think your argument fails at the first step.
They certainly don’t come from the wants of people who have moral obligations. If they did, then first of all, our having those obligations would be contingent upon our wanting certain goods, which would seriously weaken the claim that moral norms containing these “oughts” are self-evident, as people want very different things;
I am convinced they do come from a certain subset of the wants of people who have moral obligations. Although in some areas people want very different things, people are largely united in many other wants including a distaste for others suffering. Not totally united – there are psychopaths in the world – and the emphasis will shift with culture so that some cultures will value courage more than compassion or value death less than honour. But united enough to make moral statements into statements about the world not just statements about my wishes. Just as statements about what is interesting, or challenging, or dangerous, or funny are statements about the world that are grounded in facts about what most people feel, do or are capable of.
and secondly, we could only know the truth of these moral norms via an indirect process of introspection, rather than knowing them immediately, as we claim to do.
This is a very odd argument. Our knowledge about an object can be grounded in a desire without us having to introspect ourselves to check we have the desire! I know a woman is attractive. This is undoubtedly grounded in my desires. But I immediately know she is attractive – I don’t have to go through an indirect process of introspection to check I really have the desire! It is rather the other way round. I know I have the desire because of my attitude towards her. The rest of your OP is interesting but it all rather relies on this first step.Mark Frank
July 29, 2013
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5for @15 "all you are saying is that you personally think it is bizarre." Yet in the prior sentence you said "completely normal to another" person....then how can you contrast "bizarre" from "normal" in any hyper technical way? In order to have the existence/meaning of "normal" you need to have the opposite or contrary condition of "abnormal" exist in reality. However... now you are saying it is just relative to what you personally "think." But how can the person logically "think" something is abnormal IF it is "normal" to someone else? How does the word (hyper-technically) maintain its meaning if YOU say it's normal and someone else say it's bizarre??? Does bizarre=normal? Perhaps this point is being strained and we are missing the specifics of how we are defining the word "bizarre" or what it is applying specifically to (what behaviors). From an overused common usage - I can see your point...but NOT from a hyper-technical viewpoint of maintaining any real meaning to the word. An opposite condition must objectively exist or relativism invalidates the meaningfulness of the word.Breckmin
July 29, 2013
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5for But you haven’t actually answered my question. How do you personally know that it is written on your heart? How do you “read” your heart? And when did it get written? When you were a child you would have often chosen cruelty over kindness. So presumably the “writing’ occurred sometime between being a child and being an adult? ****************************** 5for -- you seem to be asking for objective data on a metaphysical concept. The dimension of morality would appear to be outside of this realm. The same line of questions could be asked of you; given your belief that atheism is true. "How do you know that morality is just a product of blind physical forces? At what stage of evolution did this illusory sense develop?". ""I am waiting!!"" etc... We are discussing beliefs here, not knowledge.DinoV
July 29, 2013
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Breckmin, precisely. That is why what is bizarre to one person is completely normal to another. When you are saying something is bizarre, all you are saying is that you personally think it is bizarre. What's your point? That we should have one standard of bizarreness that everyone in the world holds to? That would be pretty boring.5for
July 29, 2013
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Using pure logic it is easy to find one sado masochist who is mentally ill and has suppressed his moral conscious, etc. to invalidate the whole norm verses abnormal debate. If there are alleged "abnormal" objections to the moral norms then every argument is easily reduced to an argumentum ad populum. You can never make a moral claim of "as long as you are not hurting anyone" or any other moral claim/basis IF you have (alleged) evil people who believe it IS ok to hurt someone for no reason at all. If a serial killer or a mentally ill sado masochist thinks that it is somehow "good" to hurt and kill someone...then the atheist has no basis for any moral standard whatsoever...because it is easily shown to be circular reasoning (an ad populum appeal). Even more problematic for the atheist are "norms" in general. Like vjtorley said in the short paragraph regarding how norms are more than descriptive... it would never make any real logical sense to say something is "weird" or "bizarre" behavior..because such modifiers (adjectives)loose all meaning when it comes to the reality of what just IS. There would be no "bizarre" with respect to moral behavior without an objective moral standard because there can be no objective norm...just relative norms.. and putting relative in front of norm takes away from its universal meaning. ("evil" would therefore also be a meaningless modifier because all behavior "just is") Without an objective moral Law Giver in the universe there can be no objective right or wrong...just circular appeals that when using pure logic end up being ad populum appeals when "abnormals" challenge the norm. Question even more so...why this is true.Breckmin
July 29, 2013
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Thanks for your response Dick. So let's say you are right about the source of morals. That doesn't help you in working out what they are does it? When you have to decide whether it is right or wrong to deny gay people the right to be married (for example), how would you personally go about making that decision, and how would that process differ from the process an atheist goes through?5for
July 29, 2013
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5for writes: "Presumably if it is “written on the heart”, then it is written on the heart for everyone, theist and atheist, and the discussion is moot." Well, no, it's not moot. The question at issue is what is the source of the moral sentiments we're talking about? If the source is impersonal (e.g. natural selection) then there can be no duty to heed it. Impersonal causes cannot impose a moral obligation. Nor can they adjudicate between acts. The concept of moral duty only makes sense if that duty is objectively imposed by a personal being that has, by virtue of its nature, the authority to do so. Put another way, on atheism our moral sentiments are merely expressions of our subjective predilections. Even if someone feels strongly that, say, scamming the elderly is "wrong," there's really no reason to think that one's feelings on the matter should dictate one's behavior, much less be a standard for the behavior of others. The most the atheist can say is that she personally doesn't like scamming the elderly. She can't say that it's wrong to do it. Indeed, what does "wrong" even mean, given atheism?Dick
July 29, 2013
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Thanks Dick, although that is pretty vague. Presumably if it is "written on the heart", then it is written on the heart for everyone, theist and atheist, and the discussion is moot. But you haven't actually answered my question. How do you personally know that it is written on your heart? How do you "read" your heart? And when did it get written? When you were a child you would have often chosen cruelty over kindness. So presumably the "writing' occurred sometime between being a child and being an adult?5for
July 29, 2013
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sorry for my poor sentence structure in the preceding post. Hopefully it is not too difficult to decipher.bornagain77
July 29, 2013
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I hold that morality is a real, objective, tangible, part of reality that is deeply embedded within us. Embedded to core of our being, i.e. our soul which God has 'knit together'. As is noted in this study:
Moral evaluations of harm are instant and emotional, brain study shows - November 29, 2012 Excerpt: People are able to detect, within a split second, if a hurtful action they are witnessing is intentional or accidental, new research on the brain at the University of Chicago shows. http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-11-moral-instant-emotional-brain.html
Of course atheists will claim that this instantaneous moral compass, contra the 'survival of the fittest' mantra just so happened to evolve to be instant and emotional (despite the fact that cannot even explain how a single neuron arose). But the following study goes deeper and shows hurtful, violent actions, are embedded on a 'non-local', i.e. spiritual, level.
Quantum Consciousness - Time Flies Backwards? - Stuart Hameroff MD Excerpt: Dean Radin and Dick Bierman have performed a number of experiments of emotional response in human subjects. The subjects view a computer screen on which appear (at randomly varying intervals) a series of images, some of which are emotionally neutral, and some of which are highly emotional (violent, sexual....). In Radin and Bierman's early studies, skin conductance of a finger was used to measure physiological response They found that subjects responded strongly to emotional images compared to neutral images, and that the emotional response occurred between a fraction of a second to several seconds BEFORE the image appeared! Recently Professor Bierman (University of Amsterdam) repeated these experiments with subjects in an fMRI brain imager and found emotional responses in brain activity up to 4 seconds before the stimuli. Moreover he looked at raw data from other laboratories and found similar emotional responses before stimuli appeared. http://www.quantumconsciousness.org/views/TimeFlies.html
Of course as a Theist, especially as a Christian Theist, I would expect morality to be deeply embedded within reality itself, as the preceding study indicates, for I hold God, who is the source of objective morality, upholds this universe in every instance in the infinite power of His being. And moreover I hold that Christ fulfilled the infinite moral obligation for man's sin demanded by the perfection of the infinite justice of God's morality, so that sinful man may be acquitted of the penalty of death, which is the just penalty wrought upon separation from God by sin, and be able to dwell with God in eternity.
Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - December 2011 Excerpt: After years of work trying to replicate the colouring on the shroud, a similar image has been created by the scientists. However, they only managed the effect by scorching equivalent linen material with high-intensity ultra violet lasers, undermining the arguments of other research, they say, which claims the Turin Shroud is a medieval hoax. Such technology, say researchers from the National Agency for New Technologies, Energy and Sustainable Economic Development (Enea), was far beyond the capability of medieval forgers, whom most experts have credited with making the famous relic. "The results show that a short and intense burst of UV directional radiation can colour a linen cloth so as to reproduce many of the peculiar characteristics of the body image on the Shroud of Turin," they said. And in case there was any doubt about the preternatural degree of energy needed to make such distinct marks, the Enea report spells it out: "This degree of power cannot be reproduced by any normal UV source built to date." http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/scientists-say-turin-shroud-is-supernatural-6279512.html
Verse and Music:
Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, In Christ Alone Live - HD http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mPrqltkJyw
supplemental note; I was very surprised to learn that the negative mental states of stress, anxiety, and even ‘loathing’, have been shown to have a detrimental effect upon ones health:
Anxiety May Shorten Your Cell Life - July 12, 2012 Excerpt: These studies had the advantage of large data sets involving thousands of participants. If the correlations remain robust in similar studies, it would indicate that mental states and lifestyle choices can produce epigenetic effects on our genes. http://crev.info/2012/07/anxiety-may-shorten-your-cell-life/ How those marital rows can be bad for your health by JENNY HOPE – December 2005 Excerpt: Married couples who constantly argue risk damaging their health, according to a study. It found that marital rows can prolong the time it takes the body to heal itself after an injury. One argument alone can slow this process by a day. And the study claims that when married couples feel consistently hostile towards one another, the delay in the healing process can be doubled. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-370708/How-marital-rows-bad-health.html Atheism and health A meta-analysis of all studies, both published and unpublished, relating to religious involvement and longevity was carried out in 2000. Forty-two studies were included, involving some 126,000 subjects. Active religious involvement increased the chance of living longer by some 29%, and participation in public religious practices, such as church attendance, increased the chance of living longer by 43%.[4][5] http://www.conservapedia.com/Atheism_and_health
bornagain77
July 29, 2013
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5for asked (7): "Dick, how do you personally come by the sense that kindness is better than cruelty?" My own view is that this is a conviction that's "written on the heart" by a transcendent, personal moral authority; as is the corollary that we have an objective obligation to be kind. If I'm wrong about this, if the sense that kindness is better than cruelty (or selflessness is better than selfishness, or that torturing children is wrong)is nothing more than the product of the vagaries of a purposeless, materialistic evolution of the species, if moral sentiments are nothing more than a particular sequence of chemical reactions in the brain, then there is no moral better or worse, nor are there any objective moral duties. After all, how can an impersonal process like evolution, or a particular arrangement of atoms and molecules, in any way obligate us to do anything?Dick
July 29, 2013
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Dick, how do you personally come by the sense that kindness is better than cruelty?5for
July 29, 2013
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Barb, where do you derive your morality from? Specifically.5for
July 29, 2013
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The issue is not whether atheists can be moral people; they obviously are. The issue is where do they derive their morality from? If the answer is reduced to simple physics and biochemistry, then we might have a problem. In the article “Casuistry” the Encyclopaedia Britannica (11th edition) explains that morality “has sometimes been thought of as an outward law, sometimes as an inward disposition. . . . Believers in law have put their trust in authority or logic; while believers in disposition chiefly look to our instinctive faculties—conscience, common-sense or sentiment.” Extremes in both positions existed when Jesus and the apostles walked the earth. According to classical scholar Samuel H. Butcher. “Among the Greeks . . . no system of doctrine and observance, no manuals containing authoritative rules of morality, were ever transmitted in documentary form. . . . Unvarying rules petrified action.” As to the Romans, the Encyclopaedia Britannica says: “Cicero and Seneca took common-sense as their guide. They decided each problem on its merits, looking more to the spirit than to the letter.” In later centuries, too, both extremes had their advocates, even among persons called Christians. The Jesuits were noted for stressing a morality based on innumerable Church laws. After the Reformation, Protestantism emphasized individualism and conscience, which has led to the current view known as “situation ethics,” popularized by Episcopalian Dr. Joseph Fletcher. The National Observer reports: “Dr. Fletcher has spelled out a controversial manifesto of individual freedom and responsibility, based on an ethic of brotherly love, which he says should free modern man from rigid, archaic rules and codes like the ‘Ten Commandments.’ . . . With love as the only guide, then, abortion, premarital sex, divorce, . . . and other conventional wrongs become morally acceptable to Dr. Fletcher in some situations.” “Ethics” has been described as “the study of questions about what is morally right and wrong.” (Collins Cobuild English Dictionary) Author Eric J. Easton says: “‘Ethics’ and ‘morality’ have the same root meaning. The first is Greek (ethikos) and the second Latin (moralis) in origin, and both refer to the authority of custom and tradition.” The famed psychiatrist Jung stated: “The individual who is not anchored in God can offer no resistance on his own resources to the physical and moral blandishments of the world. For this he needs the evidence of inner, transcendent experience which alone can protect him from the otherwise inevitable submersion in the mass.” “It is impossible,” says syndicated columnist Georgie Anne Geyer, “to have a moral community or nation without faith in God, because everything rapidly comes down to ‘me,’ and ‘me’ alone is meaningless. . . . When ‘me’ becomes the measure of all things—at the expense of God, of church, of family and of the accepted norms of civil and civic human behavior—we are in trouble.” I happen to agree with the columnist quoted above. Morality must have objective standards of right and wrong in order for it to flourish in civilized society.Barb
July 29, 2013
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vjtorley, Nicely done and a great read. I would add that how we should treat other entities (according to their needs/ends) has a contextual component that allows us the mental/physical capacity/tools by which we can aspire to correctly understand and undertake our moral obligations. The entire cosmos, mental and physical, must be integrated in structural hand-in-glove order that allows for the immediate recognition of self-evident moral obligations, the implementation thereof, and the capacity to reason through moral quandaries and gray areas. I would also note that how we treat other entities is not the focus (purpose) that informs "oughts"; IOW, our purpose in aiding the "thriving" of others is not "to aid the thriving of others", but rather to pursue whatever the ultimate final cause is, because all entities are entwined in the overall cosmic purpose. Also, I don't consider morality to be "decreed" by god, but rather that the purpose of the universe "is" defined by what god is. God cannot change what is good, or decree an evil to be good. God is the purpose that defines what good necessarily is; God doesn't go about "decreeing" it. I also hold that our moral obligations extend well beyond how we treat other living beings, since all things in the cosmos are created with a final cause.0William J Murray
July 29, 2013
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No one denies that both the atheist and the theist have a strong sense that, say, kindness is morally better than cruelty. The question is, how do we come by that sense? If it's source is impersonal chance and physics, then why should we think that our sense that kindness is morally better is anything other than an artifact of our evolution? Why think it is anything other than a subjective preference, a taste, lacking any objective ground? Moreover, how can blind, impersonal processes impose upon us a duty to value kindness over cruelty? Why not simply regard the sense that kindness is morally superior to cruelty as an illusion? Only if the sense that kindness is better than cruelty is grounded in a transcendent, personal moral authority can that sense actually reflect an objective truth, and only such an authority can impose upon us a moral obligation to bind ourselves by it. Absent such an authority moral discourse is nothing more than sharing our aesthetic preferences and opinions.Dick
July 29, 2013
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Vincent, I'd be extremely interested in hearing a Thomistic response to Owen Flanagan's "Ethics Naturalized: Ethics as Human Ecology".Kantian Naturalist
July 29, 2013
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I was following this line of thought perfectly well until we got to this part:
In a godless universe, this would be an extremely fortuitous fact. We should not expect “Mother Nature” to have arranged things so perfectly: after all, Nature is blind and wholly lacking in intelligence.
I don't understand why the interdependent flourishing of all living things on earth is supposed to be better explained under theism than under naturalism. I don't want to get into whether or not there's an available theistic explanation of this interdependent flourishing -- I'll happily accept that there is. What I don't understand is why the naturalist cannot also explain it just as well.Kantian Naturalist
July 29, 2013
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