Intelligent Design

To the Barbarians Who Toppled George Washington’s Statue:

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You live in the country that Washington founded. Did he found it single-handedly? No, but he was the indispensable man. His efforts were not alone sufficient, but they were necessary, and without him there would have been no founding.

Every single person in this country owes him an eternal debt of gratitude for the indispensable role he played in founding a country that, while far from perfect, would in the fullness of time become the greatest nation that has ever existed in the history of the planet.

244 years later you people stand on his shoulders. And from that vantage you shit on him because he was not perfect and failed to found a leftist egalitarian utopia. Your ingratitude is staggering

74 Replies to “To the Barbarians Who Toppled George Washington’s Statue:

  1. 1
    BobRyan says:

    The Virginia colony, During Washington’s time, had a law on the books which carried through statehood of the newly formed United States. No slave owner could free any slave as long as there was any debt. All slave owners had debt, which was the reason for the law. Upon his death, George Washington freed every slave he owned, which was legal at the time.

  2. 2
    BobRyan says:

    We’re dealing with people who ignore the imperfections of their own heroes as they demonize everyone else. Charles Darwin was a racist who believed men were superior to women. He is the root of the eugenicist tree from which a lot of horrors arose. Margaret Sanger was a eugenicist and managed to pass a sterilization law into place in California. The National Socialists were looking at a number of countries and states to find an existing law to put in place and settled on California. The Nazis referred to their sterilization law as the California Plan.

    The history of the Democratic party is based on racism and slavery. The Klan was created to be the militant wing of the Democratic party. Woodrow Wilson, a Democrat, segregated the federal government and the military. FDR did not alter a single policy put in place by Wilson. Eisenhower, a Republican, was the one who brought segregation to an end. The Dixiecrats came about in 1948, not 1968, and not a single state that had been Dixiecrat in 1948 voted for Eisenhower in 1952. The Dixiecrats all went back to being Democrats.

  3. 3
    polistra says:

    Statues and flags are symbols. Defending a symbol is playing the enemy’s game. Deepstate wants us to dissipate our energy and outrage on meaningless symbols.

    Stick to defending plain old life and truth, which are under final murderous assault.

  4. 4
    ET says:

    Good luck toppling Stone Mountain, morons. That’s Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson carved into quartz monzonite.

  5. 5
    Latemarch says:

    ET@4
    See Buddhas of Bamyan
    Antifa and their fellow travelers will be happy to use high explosives on it.
    I highly recommend Introduction to Critical Theory if you want to understand how even language and reason have been hijacked by these movements.

  6. 6
    News says:

    I want to say a word on behalf of the police (that some want to defund): The police did more to liberate women than any screeching feminist.

    First, the police are the single best effort Western civilization has made toward equal justice under law. They only began to exist in the 19th century and the purpose was equality of safety for all members of society (not just those who could bear arms and/or had supporters).

    An elderly African American lady in Savannah and I in Canada have exactly the same interest in going to church on the bus in peace. No one is allowed to board her bus in Georgia or mine in Canada and hold us up.

    Why? Because the police would come. They have guns and know how to use them. We don’t but it doesn’t matter. We pay taxes for them to have guns.

    Centuries ago, neither she nor I would have been able to go to church without male companions as guards. So whether we could even go to church depended on the opinions of (some local) men.
    That’s the difference the police made. They liberate so many people in ways that some today don’t even realize.

    Some local police departments are rotten. So? Fix them. Don’t throw out the concept. That’s just a backward step for civilization and freedom of thought.

  7. 7
    ET says:

    The Buddhas didn’t have anyone protecting them. Sandstone is very different from quartz monzonite. I would love to see the carnage of a group of protesters intent on destroying Stone Mountain.

  8. 8
    Ed George says:

    People who vandalizing and topple statues should be charged. However, protesting and advocating for their removal is completely acceptable.

    Removing statues of Washington or the founding fathers would be a tough sell because slavery isn’t what they were advocating for. Lee and other confederate statues on the other hand…

  9. 9
    daveS says:

    News @6:

    Thank you for posting this. It’s easy for me to overlook these very basic things because I don’t have to deal with them much as a man.

  10. 10
    Seversky says:

    News @ 6

    Some local police departments are rotten. So? Fix them. Don’t throw out the concept. That’s just a backward step for civilization and freedom of thought.

    This doesn’t happen often but I am bound to say that I fully agree with this post.

    A legislature can enact all the laws it wants but, without the means to enforce them, they are not worth the paper they are written on. Without police you are turning over the streets to gangsters and warlords – basically anyone who has the manpower and the weapons to impose their will on others. And they are not going to be stopped by well-meaning social workers or psychotherapists, more like the social workers and psychotherapists will be “stopped” by the thugs.

    I remember ordinary Afghans being interviewed about how they felt falling under the rule of the Taliban many years ago. What struck me was that, while they didn’t like the extreme form of Islam they were subjected to, they were not entirely unhappy since the Taliban did bring a degree of stability. The unbridled lawlessness, violence and corruption of the warlords was suppressed and that was almost worth the price.

    We have come to take for granted the relative political and social stability of the last few decades but it is more fragile than people think and most people would definitely not like the alternative. Anyone who thinks another civil war would be a good idea has never lived through one, Ask the people elsewhere in the world whose countries have been torn apart by one and see if they think it was a good idea. Read the accounts of ordinary people who lived through the American Civil War and see if they thought it was a good idea.

  11. 11
    News says:

    Seversky! Comment of the month! “We have come to take for granted the relative political and social stability of the last few decades but it is more fragile than people think and most people would definitely not like the alternative.”

    https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/to-the-barbarians-who-toppled-george-washingtons-statue/#comment-704949

    Yes, exactly. Most people frustrated by bad police forces have not truly thought through the alternatives to just reforming the force

    Alternatives generally are: You have what rights a local power source gives you.

    Not – I suggest – a substitute for anything like US1A (the First Amendment to the US Constitution, which kicked off so much intellectual freedom). I speak here as a Canadian but have never heard anything so liberating as “Congress shall make no law respecting freedom of the press”

  12. 12
    vividbleau says:

    When are the SJWs going to storm Yale named after a slave trader and owner? Where is the outrage?

    Vivid

  13. 13
    Ed George says:

    VB

    When are the SJWs going to storm Yale named after a slave trader and owner? Where is the outrage?

    If it was truly named after a slave trader, by all means, rename it.

  14. 14
    Retired Physicist says:

    @ed there’s a lot of movement now to rename Yale precisely because of that. They might do it. I support it. I’ve got some friends who graduated there who want to see that.

  15. 15
    vividbleau says:

    Yes also Stanford named after Leland Stanford and the Bear Flag of California and San Francisco.

    Vivid

  16. 16
    vividbleau says:

    EG
    “If it was truly named after a slave trader, by all means, rename it.“

    I assume you are wanting your Mr Blackface Prime Minister to resign.

    Vivid

  17. 17
  18. 18
    Ed George says:

    All I think about is what if a prestigious university 150 years in the future was named after someone instrumental in the holocaust? Would we argue that “you can’t rewrite history”?

    There is one uncomfortable fact. The south fought to defend their way of life. In most instances, that would be admirable. But when a fundamental aspect of this way of life was slavey….

  19. 19
    vividbleau says:

    EG
    “All I think about is what if a prestigious university 150 years in the future was named after someone instrumental in the holocaust? Would we argue that “you can’t rewrite history”?”

    Funny all I think of Is Mao Lenin and Stalin.

    Vivid

  20. 20
    Ed George says:

    VB

    I assume you are wanting your Mr Blackface Prime Minister to resign.

    Yup.

  21. 21
    daveS says:

    Are there some cases where renaming things is the right thing to do? Some pioneers chose unfortunate place names in my area (examples include n-word this and that). “Squaw Butte” is another one which natives find inappropriate.

    These are not peoples’ names of course, but we have buildings named after KKK members, men who fought and killed Indians, etc., and many people of color are bothered by it. It must be a little depressing seeing the name of someone who killed your ancestors plastered on buildings in your town.

  22. 22
    vividbleau says:

    DaveS
    “Are there some cases where renaming things is the right thing to do? “

    Where do you start? When do you end? Who decides? This is dangerous s….t going down. It is not rewriting history as EG contends it is canceling history the good and bad.

    Vivid

  23. 23
    ET says:

    Acartia Eddie:

    All I think about is what if a prestigious university 150 years in the future was named after someone instrumental in the holocaust?

    You must be one pathetic human, then.

    Would we argue that “you can’t rewrite history”?

    Did you just really post that? Are you daft?

    There is one uncomfortable fact. The south fought to defend their way of life.

    The uncomfortable fact is if the South had the resources of the North, they would have won, easily.

  24. 24
    vividbleau says:

    DaveS
    “It must be a little depressing seeing the name of someone who killed your ancestors plastered on buildings in your town.”

    How about living on their land, that must be depressing. If you live in Canada or the US you are living on “stolen land”
    When you give your “stolen land” back get back to me and I will take all you SJWs seriously.

    Vivid

  25. 25
    daveS says:

    Vivid,

    I’m hardly a SJW. But I know that natives and other people of color have a different perspective on these issues than most of us posting here. (To prove I’m not a SJW, I find the expression “person of color” very awkward). 🙂

  26. 26
    Ed George says:

    There was a town in Canada that was named Berlin, but was renamed to Kitchener during the war. Yet there still exists a town named Swastika.

    But, it is Canada. We have town names such as Come By Chance, Head Smashed In Buffalo Jump, St. Louis de Ha Ha, and Dildo.

  27. 27
    kairosfocus says:

    Folks, this is not rocket science. Ask, why did the Red Guards expend so much effort on attacking and desecrating symbols? After, please read Havel’s essay, The Power of the Powerless. Then, ask yourself, who benefits if we despise our history and heritage as a civilisation. Then connect the dots to our own situation, asking if that is a road we really want to go down. KF

  28. 28
    daveS says:

    All this talk reminds me of the time when some in the US insisted on saying “freedom fries” instead of “french fries”.

  29. 29
    vividbleau says:

    DaveS
    People have different perspectives on a lot of things.

    Let’s take Winston Churchill should those who are tearing down his statue who ,from their anti colonial perspective, is a really bad guy, be allowed to do so? The man who stood alone against Nazi tyranny? Who alone stood against his cabinet and Lord Halifax and Anthony Eden. The man that is responsible for those being able to tear down his statue in the first place?

    How about FDR who interned Japanese Americans? You have not answered who goes, when does it stop, who decides? What happened to all the so called liberals? We have entered into the modern equivalent of book burning now. Are you ok with book burning?

    Vivid

  30. 30
    Ed George says:

    I have a crazy idea. Why do we have to erect statues and monuments to anybody? Of what benefit are they?

  31. 31
    kairosfocus says:

    EG, the answer to that lies in why the Red Guards — sponsored by Mao — expended so much effort in desecrating, defacing and destroying cultural symbols and monuments. There is a reason we erect monuments to our dead, to our heroes and to our ideals. Well do I remember the monument to a 19 year old security guard for the Peruvian Embassy in Havana, who died most valiantly on that spot in defending his post against invading terrorists. KF

  32. 32
    daveS says:

    Vivid,

    I’m not in favor of burning books or destroying statues. I would never participate in such a thing.

    As to who gets to decide when or if place/building names should be changed that should be up to the local community I suppose. I’m not agitating to have our building named after a notorious racist and KKK member renamed, but I would not be disappointed if that happened.

    It’s historical of course, but it’s also a mere ‘worldly thing’.

  33. 33
    daveS says:

    KF, Vivid, et al,

    Apparently there is/was at least one statue of Jimmy Savile on display in Scotland. Was it ok to destroy that one (in a safe and orderly manner)?

    Edit: In my previous post, I said I was not in favor of destroying statues. By that, I meant mobs tearing them down as we are seeing now.

  34. 34
    vividbleau says:

    DaveS

    My SOP is to not answered questions when the ones I have asked have not been responded to. I will make an exception for you.

    Evidently it was a statue or wood carving on display in some kind of media center. It appears that those who financed and put up the statue took it down. I think those who put it up have every right to take it down.
    I see you have edited your position on statues does that apply to books as well?

    Finally you have not answered my questions here

    “Let’s take Winston Churchill should those who (BLM) are trying to tear down his statue who ,from their anti colonial perspective, is a really bad guy, be allowed to do so? The man who stood alone against Nazi tyranny? Who alone stood against his cabinet and Lord Halifax and Anthony Eden. The man that is responsible for those being able to tear down his statue in the first place?

    How about FDR who interned Japanese Americans“

    Vivid

  35. 35
    daveS says:

    Vivid,

    I can answer your questions together: No one should be allowed to destroy other people’s property, including statues or books. That includes statues of FDR and Winston Churchill. People can do whatever they want to their own stuff obviously, as in the case of the Savile carving. I didn’t notice it was the owners who actually destroyed it, by the way.

    I think it’s worth listening to people who feel that certain statues should be voluntarily removed from display (by their owners). The community could decide whether to act on their proposal.

    I worked with an Indian woman for a while who strongly disliked Churchill and what the British had done to her country. I don’t know whether she cared about statues though. Perhaps she would have found the idea of a Churchill statue a bit odd (or repugnant, even), like I find the idea of a Jefferson Davis statue odd.

  36. 36
    Retired Physicist says:

    @Ed well in the early to mid 20th century A lot of white people felt the need to erect statues to Confederates. What message do you think they were sending when they did that?

  37. 37
    Retired Physicist says:

    I’m a big supporter of the idea that in Tennessee the statues that were erected to promote slavery propenents should be replaced by statues of Dolly Parton. I’m not particularly a fan of country music but she is an amazing woman and it would be much better to celebrate her than scumbags who fought a war against America to try to preserve slavery.

  38. 38
    vividbleau says:

    DaveS
    “I worked with an Indian woman for a while who strongly disliked Churchill and what the British had done to her country”

    Well Ghandi did not .want to help the British in the fight against the Nazis and honestly I can understand why she would dislike Churchill however he stood alone against Hitler amidst great opposition, even FDR. Would she rather India exist under Nazi rule if England caved?

    I find that in general people are ignorant about history and presentism to be a very destructive ideology.

    Vivid

  39. 39
    vividbleau says:

    RP
    “I’m a big supporter of the idea that in Tennessee the statues that were erected to promote slavery propenents should be replaced by statues of Dolly Parton.”

    The critical race theorists and Robin DiAngelo would object based on Partons whiteness. She is white therefore she is complicit in racism. Can we have one who is complicit in racism honored with a statue?
    See where this goes, it never stops

    Vivid

  40. 40
    Retired Physicist says:

    William Tecumseh Sherman FTW.

  41. 41
    Retired Physicist says:

    @Vivid I’m pretty sure most of us libtards would prefer statues of Dolly. Objectors would be ignored. There are a lot of liberals in this country, and just a small number of crazy types, despite the picture the loony conservative types present.

    For Heaven’s sake, the woman wrote Jolene and I Will Always Love You on the *same day*. Heavens to Betsy she’s tremendous.

    Her book program may be the single grestest act of generosity in the history of the world.

  42. 42
    vividbleau says:

    “@Vivid I’m pretty sure most of us would prefer statues of Dolly. Objectors would be ignored.”

    What most of us prefer doesn’t matter, other forces are running the show.

    On a lighter note since we share common interest on rockets and such any book recommendations? I’ve read about everything on the subject of getting to the moon.

    Vivid

  43. 43
    vividbleau says:

    RP
    “There are a lot of liberals in this country, and just a small number of crazy types, despite the picture the loony conservative types present.”

    I hope so because classic liberalism is one of the targets of BLM, Critical Race and Critical Social Justice Theory. You have much at stake here and I don’t think liberals understand that their coming after you not only statues.

    Vivid

  44. 44
    Retired Physicist says:

    @Vivid The book Apollo 13 is good.

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07NSN3CZH/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

    I really liked Apollo, race to the moon, too.

    If you are interested in modern science and history of science, the Carl Zimmer book She Has Her Mother’s Laugh is absolutely fantastic. Best pop science book I’ve read in years. Gets into the gory details of evolution and its abuses over the last 150 years.

  45. 45
    Retired Physicist says:

    I can’t recommend William Langewiesche’s longform piece enough though. Columbia’s Last Flight is the article I return to every few years and read and think about.

  46. 46
    Retired Physicist says:

    For those who don’t know, Dolly Parton was so moved by her father’s inability to read that she started a book program that has distributed something like 100 million books to kids. Maybe the single greatest act of generosity in the history of the world.

  47. 47
    BobRyan says:

    No statue should be torn down. They show people and symbols of history, both good and bad. If history were taught, instead of the propaganda filled textbooks, people would know why the Fire Eaters were. The Fire Eaters should have a memorial to remind us of those who opposed the United States almost from the very beginning. They were a powerful group of people who had been trying to bring about their own country for a great many years. They were instrumental in the Amistad case, just as they were instrumental in guaranteeing Lincoln won the presidency. They had the southern Democrats support a different candidate than the northern Democrats to ensure the vote was split, since they wanted to be free of Jeffersonian democracy, which they hated.

  48. 48
    BobRyan says:

    RP:

    Those who tear down statues will never see Dolly Parton as any other than a rich, white person, who represents racist music from a racist state. There is no reasoning with a mob and no controlling their fury. It is just a matter of time before the mob turns on you and people like you.

  49. 49
    MatSpirit says:

    Vivid: “Well Ghandi did not .want to help the British in the fight against the Nazis and honestly I can understand why she would dislike Churchill however he stood alone against Hitler amidst great opposition, even FDR. Would she rather India exist under Nazi rule if England caved?”

    When did FDR oppose Churchill? Citation please. FDR struggled to help England, but he was fighting isolationist conservatives who controlled congress and a public that was overwhelmingly opposed to getting entangled in another European war. Even then he managed to get Lend-Lease going and became England’s armorer.

  50. 50
    JVL says:

    Vividbleau: Well Ghandi did not .want to help the British in the fight against the Nazis and honestly I can understand why she would dislike Churchill however he stood alone against Hitler amidst great opposition, even FDR. Would she rather India exist under Nazi rule if England caved?

    Ummm . . . Indira Gandhi was Prime Minister of India from 1966 to 1977 and again from 1980 to 1984. I don’t think she had much to say about Churchill.

  51. 51
    vividbleau says:

    “Ummm . . . Indira Gandhi was Prime Minister of India from 1966 to 1977 and again from 1980 to 1984. I don’t think she had much to say about Churchill”

    Mahatma Ghandi Is who I was referring to. I thought that would be obvious since I referred to the British in WW2

    Vivid

  52. 52
    kairosfocus says:

    RP, do you really believe those who so readily accepted and promoted the defend/abolish the police agenda will respect others and their rights? KF

    PS: I again point to the key issue: why did Mao, a smart strategic operator, push the Red Guards to attack the four olds, with a lot of emphasis on attacking symbolic monuments?

    Where, the range of targets (including, abolition of lawful policing) implies an anti-civilisation, misanthropic agenda.

    The resources and obvious operational-strategic coordination points to ruthless power centres backing that agenda. motivated by destructive nihilistic ideologies.

    And as for oh the involuntarily celibate [on the Right seems to be the subtext] it seems rather that something has been going very wrong for several decades, across the political spectrum. People willing to attack civilisation and to demand removal of those who man the thin blue line cannot be reasonably educated and balanced, they have been miseducated and manipulated, from K to BA.

    The media failure to rebalance points to the rot being in central power and influence centres.

    With that, the puzzle pieces begin to fit together in an ugly strategic and even geostrategic pattern. 4th gen war, led by the ruthless and targetting the centres of the most progressive, productive, genuinely liberating civilisation in history. Which, is destabilising the cultural buttresses that make democratic, constitutional self government of a free people possible. That opens up deterioration into mobs running riot and manipulated by power centres to their own nihilistic ends. Where, we have a known ideological frame with a proved track record of hostility to our civilisation backed by expertise in agit prop and subversion: Marxism, here in cultural form working through so-called Critical Theories (and the wider lower case version). Such is known to be dominant in the academy and very influential in media and other power centres.

    Where, the insurgency operations now afoot look a lot like updated Red Guard and Alinsky tactics, with echoes of fomented revolts over the past decade. What happened in the Levant, the Maghreb and Eastern Europe has now been moved to operational level in the USA. Geostrategic centre of Western Civilisation.

    That in turn triggers the threat of the repeller pole, anarchic chaos and the snap back to domination by effectively unaccountable rulers, with either autocratic or oligarchic ruling class. Where, abolish the police and obvious pathological hostility to our civilisation and its heritage drawing on Jerusalem, Athens and Rome (with the Fertile Crescent and key river valleys behind) point to lawless tyranny.

    Absent a serious rethink, we are heading for the vortex of tyranny.

    This points to serious need of reformation. For that, I am concluding . . . doubts and hopes lurking in the benefits of doubts have been hammered flat by events . . . that we need to start from core built in moral government and law:

    We can readily identify at least seven inescapable first duties of reason. Inescapable, as they are so antecedent to reasoning that even the objector implicitly appeals to them; i.e. they are self-evident. Duties, to truth, to right reason, to prudence, to sound conscience, to neighbour, so also to fairness and justice etc. Such built in law is not invented by parliaments or courts, nor can these principles and duties be abolished by such. (Cf. Cicero in De Legibus, c. 50 BC.) Indeed, it is on this framework that we can set out to soundly understand and duly balance rights, freedoms and duties; which is justice. The legitimate main task of government, then, is to uphold and defend the civil peace of justice through sound community order reflecting the built in, intelligible law of our nature. Where, as my right implies your duty a true right is a binding moral claim to be respected in life, liberty, honestly aquired property, innocent reputation etc. To so justly claim a right, one must therefore demonstrably be in the right. Thus, too, we may compose sound civil law informed by that built-in law of our responsibly, rationally free morally governed nature; from such, we may identify what is unsound or false thus to be reformed or replaced even though enacted under the colour and solemn ceremonies of law.

    If we fail at this kairos, the abyss yawns open before us.

  53. 53
    JVL says:

    Vividbleau: Mahatma Ghandi Is who I was referring to. I thought that would be obvious since I referred to the British in WW2

    You said ‘she’!! And then India was not independent until 1947. But yes, Mahatma Ghandi opposed participation in WWII but I don’t think it had anything to do with Churchill; he wanted India independent.

  54. 54
    ET says:

    Acartia Eddie:

    Why do we have to erect statues and monuments to anybody? Of what benefit are they?

    It’s called a memorial. Why have a memorial day, then, right Acartia?

  55. 55
    ET says:

    There is a town in Massachusetts named Berlin. There are 6 United States that are collectively called New England. These still exist.

  56. 56
    Ed George says:

    VB

    Well Ghandi did not .want to help the British in the fight against the Nazis…

    Neither did the Americans. It took Pearl Harbour to get them involved.

  57. 57
    ET says:

    LoL! The USA was NOT ready for another World War, when Germany started its BS back in 1938-39. And why should we have been, we had our own problems to take care of.

    Great Britain wasn’t ready either. That’s why Chamberlin did what he did. Look how easily Germany got started in its conquering. That’s because they were the only country ready for war.

  58. 58
    ET says:

    And the USA did help GB. Without our supplies the Germans would have taken the island.

  59. 59
    kairosfocus says:

    ET, actually, Germany was less un-ready for war when it came. That lack of readiness translated into initial operational victories but inability to rapidly resolve the neighbouring states conflicts. With Britain unconquered, US had an unsinkable carrier and base for intervention — hence, leaned neutrality. On the other side, Russia was just a matter of time. So, poisoned victories leading to strategic overstretch. KF

  60. 60
    kairosfocus says:

    JVL,

    let me make a little comment on discrete time dynamic-stochastic systems, state increment on state vector dX, with current state vector X in general involving memory of the past and f, g and e are modifying operators on current state X, current input Y and noise W:

    dX = f*X + g*Y + e*W
    X_0 = original state

    Next state, X+ = X + dX, defining a trajectory across time from initial state. Feedback and memory can give infinite impulse response, i.e. once excited change continues indefinitely.

    We may define an output vector Z on X and dX, simplest case being Z+ = X+

    f, g and e in general are time varying and may be sensitive to where X sits in a space of possibilities S.

    That just captures the concept. For a computational system the architecture would determine behaviour. The key thing is, the only autonomous element within the system here is noise. Inputs are environmental, exogenous to the system.

    Just to touch base with Algebra.

    KF

  61. 61
    vividbleau says:

    EG
    “Neither did the Americans. It took Pearl Harbour to get them involved.”

    This is false. First we sold them supplies on a cash basis then when Britain exhausted their cash FDR with much opposition got “lend lease” passed.

    Vivid

  62. 62
    kairosfocus says:

    Vivid, indeed and the US was exploring hemispheric defence. By degrees it was in a naval sub war with Germany to the point where Greenland was occupied, 50 bases were exchanged for 4-stacker destroyers on a 1:1 basis, and there were active engagements not just escorting. IIRC, an American spotted Bismark at a key point. KF

  63. 63
    kairosfocus says:

    U/D: The tear them down agenda has no limit. Twitter:

    >>Shaun King
    @shaunking

    Yes, I think the statues of the white European they claim is Jesus should also come down.

    They are a form of white supremacy.

    Always have been.

    In the Bible, when the family of Jesus wanted to hide, and blend in, guess where they went?

    EGYPT!

    Not Denmark.

    Tear them down.>>

    On slanderous pretence that historic artistic representations of Jesus are racist, they now wish to erase that history, which is a major part of our civilisation’s artistic heritage.

    KF

    PS: Just for record, Egypt at the time was metropolitan, especially the likely place of refuge, Alexandria; which had a large Jewish Quarter. Where being named after Alexander of Macedon is a big clue. (Riddle me this, as Queen, what was Cleopatra, ethnically?)

  64. 64
    Ed George says:

    KF

    Riddle me this, as Queen, what was Cleopatra, ethnically?)

    The product of incest? 🙂

  65. 65
    daveS says:

    Greek?

    Edit: After googling, Greek and perhaps some Egyptian.

  66. 66
    kairosfocus says:

    More from the same:

    >>
    Shaun King

    @shaunking

    Yes.

    All murals and stained glass windows of white Jesus, and his European mother, and their white friends should also come down.

    They are a gross form white supremacy.

    Created as tools of oppression.
    Racist propaganda.

    They should all come down.
    2,060
    1:07 PM – Jun 22, 2020>>

    Incitement to hate and further vandalism, anyone?

    This is what we are dealing with.

    KF

  67. 67
    kairosfocus says:

    EG & DS,

    a look at even Wiki would give it to DS in one:

    >>Cleopatra VII Philopator (Koin? Greek: ????????? ?????????, Kleopátra Philopát?r;[5] 69 – 10 or 12 August 30 BC)[note 2] was the last active ruler of the Ptolemaic Kingdom of Egypt.[note 5] As a member of the Ptolemaic dynasty, she was a descendant of its founder Ptolemy I Soter, a Macedonian Greek general and companion of Alexander the Great.[note 6] After the death of Cleopatra, Egypt became a province of the Roman Empire, marking the end of the Hellenistic period that had lasted since the reign of Alexander (336–323 BC).[note 7] Her native language was Koine Greek, and she was the only Ptolemaic ruler to learn the Egyptian language.>>

    Greek, possibly with slight Egyptian infusions, and BTW if the Berlin statue is near accurate, not exactly a beauty contestant.

    But, the metropolitan character of Egypt, especially Alexandria, is underscored. Decisively undermining the excuse to rant clipped above.

    KF

  68. 68
    kairosfocus says:

    1.1 million Twitter Followers, it seems.

    Cat out of the bag moment.

    PS: From Wiki, this seems to be our man:

    >>Jeffery Shaun King (born September 17, 1979) is an American writer, civil rights activist, and co-founder of Real Justice PAC. King uses social media to promote social justice causes, including the Black Lives Matter movement.

    King was raised in Kentucky and attended Morehouse College in Atlanta, Georgia. While at Morehouse, King was elected President of the student government association and was awarded the Oprah Winfrey Scholarship.[1]

    After college, he worked as a high school teacher in Atlanta. He then went on to work as a pastor and founded a church in Atlanta called Courageous Church. During this time, King launched a number of internet campaigns, such as aHomeinHaiti.org, TwitChange.com, and HopeMob.org.

    King is currently a writer-in-residence at Harvard Law School’s Fair Punishment Project and contributes to The Intercept and The Appeal. Previously, he contributed to the New York Daily News, Daily Kos, the Tom Joyner Morning Show and The Young Turks. In 2018, King co-founded Real Justice PAC, which supports progressive candidates running for district attorney offices, and re-launched Frederick Douglass’s The North Star. >>

    The emerging pattern of networks is interesting.

  69. 69
    daveS says:

    He’s known as “Talcum X” by critics, for obvious reasons.

  70. 70
    kairosfocus says:

    Maybe, he should bear in mind what happened 79 years ago today?

  71. 71
    vividbleau says:

    KF

    We are entering a very dark time and I don’t see how we recover as a country. We have sowed the wind and now we are reaping the whirlwind. Hard to see things not devolving into even more violence.

    Vivid

  72. 72
    kairosfocus says:

    Vivid, sadly yes. A 4th Gen Civil war, even at low kinetic operations scale, is a very dirty war. On war Mohammed said, war is deception. 4th Gen war can be so subtle that part of the fog is to keep hidden the reality of there being a war. Someone has contrasted kinetic high intensity violence operations and information ones. A classic move is exploitation of real or perceived atrocities to keep polarisation going, multiplied by turnabout accusations that to the polarised make what is aggressive seem a justified retaliation. In that context there is talk of the strategic corporal, any blunder made is blown up propagandistically into a major crisis, paralysing deployment of forces for fear of such or at least retarding until crisis. Notice how arson of an historic church across from the White House and mass wounding of riot police was downplayed while pushing out a protective perimeter was portrayed as though in order to promote a mere photo op, peaceful protesters were violently attacked by police using chemical agents and out of control violence. A key sign is we are not allowed to hear a responsibly balanced report. The watershed, is that the call to defund/abolish police (and courts) is on the table, a crossing the Rubicon anti-civilisation demand that reveals misanthropy. So, yes, absent a miracle, very dark days are ahead. KF

  73. 73
    kairosfocus says:

    F/N: Above, I noted on how Mao, a smart strategic operator, sponsored and protected the Red Guards who expended considerable effort on despoiling or destroying monuments of Chinese culture. Why is that? Answer comes back: our monuments are symbols of what we revere, remember [grave markers . . .], honour. So, desecration as we look on helplessly is street theatre of shaming, humiliation, subjugation and literal de-valuing. It is also imposition of a new metanarrative that reverses heroes and villains. In short, from the range of targets, we are looking at an anti-civilisation radical insurgency. What they are likely ignorant of, is that the democratic, constitution-backed freedoms they enjoy are inherently unstable [hence Plato’s warnings in Ship of State] and were stabilised by the cultural advances promoted through the rise of printing, creation of a broad based increasingly literate public familiar with and respectful of the key book . . . the Bible, the linked ferment of the Reformation, the rise of a widely accepted understanding of law as grounded in our built-in morally governed nature based on intelligible first principles and duties including truth, justice, prudence, sound conscience etc, and more broadly gospel ethics undergirded by respect for scripture. So, de-valuing and hollowing out the heritage of Christendom (“warts and all”) removes stabilising buttresses that make sustained constitutional democracy possible. This leads to a threat of chaotic anarchy and a snap back to “safety,” i.e. tumbling into the vortex of autocratic or oligarchic tyrannical domination. Those are the fires that are being played with. KF

  74. 74
    kairosfocus says:

    PS: As if on cue, Lafayette Square etc across from the White House again became a focus of street theatre. St John’s Church was defaced with graffiti and an attempt was made to pull down a statue commemorating US President Andrew Jackson’s military service at the Battle of New Orleans. This is the same church that is called, church of Presidents, which was earlier targetted for arson and it is where current president Trump walked to with entourage and held up his mother’s Bible (which he keeps in the Oval Office, it seems). I suspect, that was a moment of silent oath and symbolic declaration.

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