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UB Hammers a Darwinbot

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In a comment to another post that deserves its own post, the venerable Upright Biped hammers rvb8 and in the process gives us one of the most succinct and pithy summaries of the information issue I have seen:

Pierce’s 1860’s model of signification (i.e. the ability to specify something among alternatives) suggested that all representation requires interpretation in order to exist. This model is not only consistent with naturalist views of reality, it is basically demanded by those views — and for good reason. It’s true. Then Turing showed that we can impute representation and interpretation into an arrangement of matter (i.e. a physical system) and cause novel function to come into being. Von Neumann then took Turing’s machine and used it to show what is required for an autonomous self-replicator to exist, thereby establishing a threshold of complexity for such a system. He did this several years before his model was demonstrated inside the living cell. Crick then showed how a DNA molecule could carry a code, and further predicted that a set of adapters would be required within the system, which Zamecnik and Hoagland found three years later. But the code in DNA would still have to be demonstrated in order for us to know what it is (i.e. it could not be calculated from its dynamic properties). Nirenberg set out to accomplish this demonstration and won the Nobel prize for doing so. Pattee then carefully described the physics of the system, and at the very center of that system is a set of (rate-independent) physical representations and a set of (non-integrable) constraints to interpret those representations. Two things, rv, you can’t specify something in the physical universe without two things. This empirical fact was proposed in theory, confirmed by experiment, and has been universally demonstrated throughout all of history. Write that down. No one at your ideological cesspools has solved the symbol-matter paradox.

Comments
Well done, UB.Truth Will Set You Free
February 13, 2017
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Just a comment on what is perhaps a trivial point.
Pierce’s 1860’s model of signification (i.e. the ability to specify something among alternatives) suggested that all representation requires interpretation in order to exist. This model is not only consistent with naturalist views of reality, it is basically demanded by those views — and for good reason. It’s true.
I have little doubt that this model is true, but I am not convinced that ‘representation’ and/or ‘interpretation’ is consistent with naturalists views, let alone that they are demanded by those views. So much the worse for naturalism, surely. I am not saying that the vast majority of naturalists is aware of the fact that naturalism has profound problems grounding these fundamental phenomena. I am not saying that at all. Representation, by its very definition is about something and this poses a problem for naturalism. Rosenberg explains it unambiguously:
What we need is a clump of matter, … , that … points at, indicates, singles out, picks out, identifies (and here we just start piling up more and more synonyms for “being about”) another clump of matter …. But there is no such physical stuff. Physics has ruled out the existence of clumps of matter of the required sort. There are just fermions and bosons and combinations of them. None of that stuff is just, all by itself, about any other stuff. There is nothing in the whole universe … that just by its nature or composition can do this job of being about some other clump of matter.
The problem that aboutness / representation poses for naturalism is so irresolvable that Rosenberg feels compelled to take the next deep plunge into utter irrationality:
So, when consciousness assures us that we have thoughts about stuff, it has to be wrong. The brain nonconsciously stores information in thoughts. But the thoughts are not about stuff. Therefore, consciousness cannot retrieve thoughts about stuff. There are none to retrieve. So it can’t have thoughts about stuff either. [A. Rosenberg, ‘The Atheist’s Guide To Reality’, Ch. 8, ‘The brain does everything without thinking about anything at all’]
Origenes
February 13, 2017
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