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UB Sets It Out Step-By-Step

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UD Editors:  No one has come close to refuting UB’s thesis after 129 comments.  We are moving this post to the top of the page to give the materialists another chance.

I take the following from an excellent comment UB made in a prior post.  UB lays out his argument step by step, precept by precept.  Then he arrives at a conclusion.  In order for his argument to be valid, the conclusion must follow from the premises.  In order for his argument to be sound, each of the premises must be true.

Now here is the challenge to our Darwinist friends.  If you disagree with UB’s conclusion, please demonstrate how his argument is either invalid (as a matter of logic the conclusion does not follow from the premises) or unsound (one or more of the premises are false).  Good luck (you’re going to need it).

Without further ado, here is UB’s argument:

1.  A representation is an arrangement of matter which evokes an effect within a system (e.g. written text, spoken words, pheromones, animal gestures, codes, sensory input, intracellular messengers, nucleotide sequences, etc, etc).

2.  It is not logically possible to transfer information (the form of a thing; a measured aspect, quality, or preference) in a material universe without using a representation instantiated in matter.

3.  If that is true, and it surely must be, then several other things must logically follow. If there is now an arrangement of matter which contains a representation of form as a consequence of its own material arrangement, then that arrangement must be necessarily arbitrary to the thing it represents. In other words, if one thing is to represent another thing within a system, then it must be separate from the thing it represents. And if it is separate from it, then it cannot be anything but materially arbitrary to it (i.e. they cannot be the same thing).

4.  If that is true, then the presence of that representation must present a material component to the system (which is reducible to physical law), while its arrangement presents an arbitrary component to the system (which is not reducible to physical law).

5.  If that is true, and again it surely must be, then there has to be something else which establishes the otherwise non-existent relationship between the representation and the effect it evokes within the system. In fact, this is the material basis of Francis Crick’s famous ‘adapter hypothesis’ in DNA, which lead to a revolution in the biological sciences. In a material universe, that something else must be a second arrangement of matter; coordinated to the first arrangement as well as to the effect it evokes.

6.  It then also follows that this second arrangement must produce its unambiguous function, not from the mere presence of the representation, but from its arrangement.  It is the arbitrary component of the representation which produces the function.

7.  And if those observations are true, then in order to actually transfer recorded information, two discrete arrangements of matter are inherently required by the process; and both of these objects must necessarily have a quality that extends beyond their mere material make-up. The first is a representation and the second is a protocol (a systematic, operational rule instantiated in matter) and together they function as a formal system. They are the irreducible complex core which is fundamentally required in order to transfer recorded information.

8.  During protein synthesis, a selected portion of DNA is first transcribed into mRNA, then matured and transported to the site of translation within the ribosome. This transcription process facilitates the input of information (the arbitrary component of the DNA sequence) into the system. The input of this arbitrary component functions to constrain the output, producing the polypeptides which demonstrate unambiguous function.

9.  From a causal standpoint, the arbitrary component of DNA is transcribed to mRNA, and those mRNA are then used to order tRNA molecules within the ribosome. Each stage of this transcription process is determined by the physical forces of pair bonding. Yet, which amino acid appears at the peptide binding site is not determined by pair bonding; it is determined  by the aaRS. In other words, which amino acid appears at the binding site is only evoked by the physical structure of the nucleic triplet, but is not determined by it. Instead, it is determined (in spatial and temporal isolation) by the physical structure of the aaRS. This is the point of translation; the point where the arbitrary component of the representation is allowed to evoke a response in a physically determined system – while preserving the arbitrary nature of the representation.

10.  This physical event, translation by a material protocol, as well as the transcription of a material representation, is ubiquitous in the transfer of recorded information.

CONCLUSION:  These two physical objects (the representation and protocol) along with the required preservation of the arbitrary component of the representation, and the production of unambiguous function from that arbitrary component, confirm that the transfer of recorded information in the genome is just like any other form of recorded information. It’s an arbitrary relationship instantiated in matter.

Comments
Hey Upright BiPed, Did you know onlooker has been banned from UD as of September 21? So who are you talking to?
gpuccio addressed a comment to me at Uncommon Descent. Onlooker, a commenter now unable to post there, has expressed an interest in continuing a dialogue with gpuccio and petrushka comments:
http://theskepticalzone.com/wp/?p=1296 Subsequent to that post by Alan Fox, onlooker posted in the same thread and failed to set the record straight. http://theskepticalzone.com/wp/?p=1296&cpage=1#comment-15880 In the true Elizabeth Liddle tradition! Skeptical Zone my a**. Skeptical of anything but the actual facts, I guess.Mung
September 23, 2012
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haha. i wish i'd thought of it sooner. I should have made my lol an aoa. oh well. some opportunities come only once in a lifetime. :)Mung
September 23, 2012
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lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll What the FREAK is wrong with my 'A' key?Mung
September 23, 2012
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lol!Mung
September 23, 2012
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...sorry, couldn't resist. :|Upright BiPed
September 23, 2012
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Mung,
I don't believe you.
That's because you don't recognize that your conceptions of human knowledge are an idea that would be subject to criticism. :)Upright BiPed
September 23, 2012
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Upright BiPed:
They are also imprecise with regard to the thing “to which the information refers.” ... The remainder of your post simply repeats the imprecision in your rewrite.
An unbiased rational observer might think that onlooker is attempting to introduce imprecision rather than clarity.
There is no inexorable law that connects a material representation to its material effect; such connections are context specific within a system, hence, they are “materially arbitrary”.
You mean to say if I hit the key marked 'A' on my keyboard there's no inexorable law according to which an 'a' must appear on my computer screen? You're saying that if I take the 'L' thingy on my keyboard and swap it with the 'A' thingy on my keyboard, and then I hit the key marked ‘A’ on my keyboard again, that an 'a' may not appear on my screen? I don't believe you.Mung
September 23, 2012
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Onlooker,
More progress, excellent!
The idea that the arbitrary relationship (between representation and effect) is “context specific, not an inexorable law” was first made six-hundred and twenty-one comments ago at comment #11. It was then repeated several times over the past thirty days, including being re-stated directly to you. So once again, it has been your decision to perpetuate a false narrative (that you can't understand the argument) which has created the ‘lack of progress’, to which you are now hypocritically pleased to be rid of.
I gather from this that you accept my first proposed definition of “arbitrary”:
Arbitrary: Not connected by any direct physical mechanism
No, not at all. Of course the representation and its effect are connected by a physical mechanism, that's what the whole point of the translation process – connecting them by a physical mechanism. The translation process allows the arbitrary component of a representation to constrain the output of a physically determined system. The point is that the connection between them requires the protocol in that system, and without it, there is no relationship between them. Since your rewrite fails to be clear on this issue, there is no justification to use it. For the sake of clarity, you should accept the fuller, more accurate definitions already given (the one you just applauded): Arbitrary: Not connected by any direct physical mechanism There is no inexorable law that connects a material representation to its material effect; such connections are context specific within a system, hence, they are “materially arbitrary”. . . .
Please restate your premise “If there is an arrangement of matter that constitutes information, that arrangement is necessarily arbitrary to the thing to which the information refers.” to clarify exactly what you are trying to communicate.
Those aren't my words, they are yours. They are also imprecise with regard to the thing “to which the information refers.” This is in contrast to the definitions already on the table, which specify that representations are arbitrary to the effects they evoke. The remainder of your post simply repeats the imprecision in your rewrite. One cannot forget that your rewrite is a tactical maneuver for the purposes of resulting in something you can argue against. As it stands now, you cannot meet the challenge presented in the OP.Upright BiPed
September 23, 2012
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Creating Life in the Lab: How New Discoveries in Synthetic Biology Make a Case for the CreatorMung
September 23, 2012
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And that's just the information storage capacity in DNA, the programming in DNA is another matter entirely:
Three Subsets of Sequence Complexity and Their Relevance to Biopolymeric Information - David L. Abel and Jack T. Trevors - Theoretical Biology & Medical Modelling, Vol. 2, 11 August 2005, page 8 "No man-made program comes close to the technical brilliance of even Mycoplasmal genetic algorithms. Mycoplasmas are the simplest known organism with the smallest known genome, to date. How was its genome and other living organisms' genomes programmed?" http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1742-4682-2-29.pdf
Bill Gates, in recognizing the superiority found in Genetic Coding compared to the best computer coding we now have, has now funded research into this area:
Welcome to CoSBi - (Computational and Systems Biology) Excerpt: Biological systems are the most parallel systems ever studied and we hope to use our better understanding of how living systems handle information to design new computational paradigms, programming languages and software development environments. The net result would be the design and implementation of better applications firmly grounded on new computational, massively parallel paradigms in many different areas. (of note: this header has now gone missing from the site) http://www.cosbi.eu/index.php/component/content/article/171 Biochemical Turing Machines “Reboot” the Watchmaker Argument - Fazale Rana - July 2012 Excerpt: Researchers recognize several advantages to DNA computers.(7) One is the ability to perform a massive number of operations at the same time (in parallel) as opposed to one at a time (serially) as demanded by silicon-based computers. Secondly, DNA has the capacity to store an enormous quantity of information. One gram of DNA can house as much information as nearly 1 trillion CDs. And a third benefit is that DNA computing operates near the theoretical capacity with regard to energy efficiency. http://stevebrownetc.com/2012/07/02/biochemical-turing-machines-%E2%80%9Creboot%E2%80%9D-the-watchmaker-argument/ Scientists' 3-D View of Genes-at-Work Is Paradigm Shift in Genetics - Dec. 2009 Excerpt: Highly coordinated chromosomal choreography leads genes and the sequences controlling them, which are often positioned huge distances apart on chromosomes, to these 'hot spots'. Once close together within the same transcription factory, genes get switched on (a process called transcription) at an appropriate level at the right time in a specific cell type. This is the first demonstration that genes encoding proteins with related physiological role visit the same factory. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091215160649.htm
Besides parallel computer programming, man will also learn how to program "quantumly"!
Quantum Information/Entanglement In DNA - Elisabeth Rieper - short video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/5936605/ Quantum entanglement between the electron clouds of nucleic acids in DNA - Elisabeth Rieper, Janet Anders and Vlatko Vedral - February 2011 http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/1006/1006.4053v2.pdf
In the following article, Dr. Hameroff expands on the quantum computation aspect of Rieper, Anders and Vedral paper:
Is DNA a quantum computer? Stuart Hameroff Excerpt: DNA could function as a quantum computers with superpositions of base pair dipoles acting as qubits. Entanglement among the qubits, necessary in quantum computation is accounted for through quantum coherence in the pi stack where the quantum information is shared,,, http://www.quantumconsciousness.org/dnaquantumcomputer1.htm Quantum Computing in DNA – Stuart Hameroff Excerpt of Hypothesis: DNA utilizes quantum information and quantum computation for various functions. Superpositions of dipole states of base pairs consisting of purine (A,G) and pyrimidine (C,T) ring structures play the role of qubits, and quantum communication (coherence, entanglement, non-locality) occur in the “pi stack” region of the DNA molecule.,,, We can then consider DNA as a chain of qubits (with helical twist). Output of quantum computation would be manifest as the net electron interference pattern in the quantum state of the pi stack, regulating gene expression and other functions locally and nonlocally by radiation or entanglement. http://www.quantumconsciousness.org/views/QuantumComputingInDNA.html
bornagain77
September 23, 2012
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well let's see how their doing trying to create life in the lab:
Scientists Say Intelligent Designer Needed for Origin of Life Chemistry Excerpt: Organic chemist Dr. Charles Garner recently noted in private correspondence that "while this work helps one imagine how RNA might form, it does nothing to address the information content of RNA. So, yes, there was a lot of guidance by an intelligent chemist." Sutherland's research produced only 2 of the 4 RNA nucleobases, and Dr. Garner also explained why, as is often the case, "the basic chemistry itself also required the hand of an intelligent chemist." http://www.evolutionnews.org/2009/07/scientists_say_intelligent_des.html
Well that's not to encouraging for the atheists. Here are a few more notes for the atheists to consider in their foolish bravado to prove you don't need God for life:
Do you believe Richard Dawkins exists? Excerpt: DNA is the best information storage mechanism known to man. A single pinhead of DNA contains as much information as could be stored on 2 million two-terabyte hard drives. http://creation.com/does-dawkins-exist Information Storage in DNA by Wyss Institute - video https://vimeo.com/47615970 Quote from preceding video: "The theoretical (information) density of DNA is you could store the total world information, which is 1.8 zetabytes, at least in 2011, in about 4 grams of DNA." Sriram Kosuri PhD. - Wyss Institute Harvard cracks DNA storage, crams 700 terabytes of data into a single gram - Sebastian Anthony - August 17, 2012 Excerpt: A bioengineer and geneticist at Harvard’s Wyss Institute have successfully stored 5.5 petabits of data — around 700 terabytes — in a single gram of DNA, smashing the previous DNA data density record by a thousand times.,,, Just think about it for a moment: One gram of DNA can store 700 terabytes of data. That’s 14,000 50-gigabyte Blu-ray discs… in a droplet of DNA that would fit on the tip of your pinky. To store the same kind of data on hard drives — the densest storage medium in use today — you’d need 233 3TB drives, weighing a total of 151 kilos. In Church and Kosuri’s case, they have successfully stored around 700 kilobytes of data in DNA — Church’s latest book, in fact — and proceeded to make 70 billion copies (which they claim, jokingly, makes it the best-selling book of all time!) totaling 44 petabytes of data stored. http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/134672-harvard-cracks-dna-storage-crams-700-terabytes-of-data-into-a-single-gram DNA Stores Data More Efficiently than Anything We've Created - Casey Luskin - August 29, 2012 Excerpt: Nothing made by humans can approach these kind of specs. Who would have thought that DNA can store data more efficiently than anything we've created. But DNA wasn't designed -- right? http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/08/who_would_have_063701.html Harvard Scientists Write the Book on Intelligent Design—in DNA - Dr. Fazale Rana - September 10, 2012 Excerpt: One gram of DNA can hold up to 455 exabytes (one exabyte equals 10^18 bytes). In comparison, a CD-ROM holds about 700 million (7 x 10^8) bytes of data. (One gram of DNA holds the equivalent amount of data as 600 billion CD-ROMs. Assuming a typical book requires 1 megabyte of data-storage capacity, then one gram of DNA could harbor 455 trillion books.) http://www.reasons.org/articles/harvard-scientists-write-the-book-on-intelligent-design-in-dna
bornagain77
September 23, 2012
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I don't understand why anyone thinks that's such a troubling question for ID. If we create life in the lab, what are they going to argue next?Mung
September 23, 2012
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Do you have a “designer” capable of creating life, Joe?
Yes, the "designer" who did.Joe
September 23, 2012
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What if there was no “Creator/Intelligent Designer”?
Then we wouldn't exist.Joe
September 23, 2012
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Are you implying that onlooker is straining out a golfball just to swallow the earth?Mung
September 23, 2012
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"What if the golf ball had no mass though?" Or perhaps, as long as we are playing 'what ifs', what if the earth were the size of a golfball?
Louie Giglio - How Great Is Our God - Part 2 - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfNiZrt5FjU Quote from preceding video: You could fit 262 trillion earths inside (the star of) Betelgeuse. If the Earth were a golfball that would be enough to fill up the Superdome (football stadium) with golfballs,,, 3000 times!!! When I heard that as a teenager that stumped me right there because most of my praying had been advising God, correcting God, suggesting things to God, drawing diagrams for God, reviewing things with God, counseling God. - Louie Giglio
bornagain77
September 23, 2012
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Mung, In case you didn't know, this rhetorical game of semantics is a known tactic of losers. That is because all they have is to try to trip you up and confuse you as to what you are trying to convey. If they had any actual evidence, as keiths sez, they would just present it and be done with it. That is why UB said the heck with the TSZ- rhetorical games get old fast and they are intent on playing them until the cows come home. At least Alan Miller anted up his imagination. However- They can't get the required simple replicators. When they start with replicators they can't get them to evolve a new function- they just get better at the one they were designed with. So it all hinges on the rhetorical game.Joe
September 23, 2012
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Toronto asks:
What if the golf ball had no mass though?
Then it wouldn't be a golf ball.Joe
September 23, 2012
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onlooker:
I gather from this that you accept my first proposed definition of “arbitrary”
The word delusional comes to mind.Mung
September 23, 2012
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Upright BiPed,
there is no inexorable law that connects a material representation to its material effect; that such connections are context specific within a system, hence, they are "materially arbitrary".
More progress, excellent! I gather from this that you accept my first proposed definition of "arbitrary": D3. Arbitrary: Not connected by any direct physical mechanism. That gets us to three definitions and a premise: D1. Representation: An arrangement of matter which evokes an effect within a system. Examples include: Written text Spoken words Pheromones Animal gestures Codes Sensory input Intracellular messengers Nucleotide sequences D2. Information: The form of a thing. D3. Arbitrary: Not connected by any direct physical mechanism. P1. It is not logically possible to transfer information without using an arrangement of matter which evokes an effect within a system. Again leaving aside for now the vagueness of D2, there is at least one remaining open issue before we can progress to a full understanding of your paragraph 3: - Please restate your premise "If there is an arrangement of matter that constitutes information, that arrangement is necessarily arbitrary to the thing to which the information refers." to clarify exactly what you are trying to communicate. Assuming your agreement with D3 as stated, I'll take a stab at formulating P2. P2. An arrangement of matter that constitutes information, as the word is used in this argument, is not connected by any direct physical mechanism to the thing to which it refers. This actually looks more like a definition than a premise. In fact, it looks like a further clarification of D2. I propose D2' for your consideration: D2'. Infomation: An arrangement of matter representing the form of a thing, unconnected by any direct physical mechanism to that thing. This allows us to eliminate P2, but it does require another definition: D4. Direct Physical Mechanism: ? Does this rule out things like the connection in the children's game Mousetrap (a Rube Goldberg instantiation) between a marble at one end and a basket dropping at the other? Every link is directly connected to the one before and after it, but the marble isn't proximate to the basket. Being an optimistic sort, I'm going to revisit your paragraph 3 before getting a response from you on this potential progress.
3. If that is true, and it surely must be, then several other things must logically follow. If there is now an arrangement of matter which contains a representation of form as a consequence of its own material arrangement, then that arrangement must be necessarily arbitrary to the thing it represents. In other words, if one thing is to represent another thing within a system, then it must be separate from the thing it represents. And if it is separate from it, then it cannot be anything but materially arbitrary to it (i.e. they cannot be the same thing).
I think that all of this is covered by D2'. It simply says that your definition of information means that a representation of matter can only constitute information if it is not directly phyiscally connected to what it is information about. If this is what you mean and if you can clarify what you mean by "direct physical mechanism" then we can move on to paragraph 4!onlooker
September 23, 2012
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to your first question about radio waves. I have always understood radio waves to be energy that traveled at the speed of light,,, as to another comment of yours, I have always understood light to be bent around stars solely because of the warping of space-time as the light travels past the star, i.e. it is not bent because of any considerations of mass that may be imparted to the lightbornagain77
September 22, 2012
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Joe you ask:
The other is what if the equation only applies in specific circumstances or even better is the same as the wall we thought we would hit by traveling the speed of sound?
Well, as was amply demonstrated by the recent neutrino finding, that didn't pan out:
Einstein was right, neutrino researchers admit – June 2012 Excerpt: Scientists on Friday said that an experiment which challenged Einstein’s theory on the speed of light had been flawed and that sub-atomic particles (neutrinos) — like everything else — are indeed bound by the universe’s speed limit. http://phys.org/news/2012-06-einstein-neutrino.html
i.e. Any atomic particle with 'weight', which includes neutrinos and which excludes photons, cannot go the speed of light, they (particles with 'weight') can only approach the speed of light ever so closely no matter how much energy you pour into the particle trying to accelerate it to the speed of light. Just look at CERN - The Large Hadron Collider !!!
The Large Hadron Collider Excerpt: Inside the accelerator, two beams of particles travel at close to the speed of light with very high energies before colliding with one another. The beams travel in opposite directions in separate beam pipes – two tubes kept at ultrahigh vacuum. They are guided around the accelerator ring by a strong magnetic field, achieved using superconducting electromagnets. These are built from coils of special electric cable that operates in a superconducting state, efficiently conducting electricity without resistance or loss of energy. This requires chilling the magnets to about ?271°C – a temperature colder than outer space. For this reason, much of the accelerator is connected to a distribution system of liquid helium, which cools the magnets, as well as to other supply services. Thousands of magnets of different varieties and sizes are used to direct the beams around the accelerator. These include 1232 dipole magnets of 15m length which are used to bend the beams, and 392 quadrupole magnets, each 5–7m long, to focus the beams. Just prior to collision, another type of magnet is used to "squeeze" the particles closer together to increase the chances of collisions. The particles are so tiny that the task of making them collide is akin to firing needles from two positions 10km apart with such precision that they meet halfway! http://public.web.cern.ch/public/en/lhc/HowLHC-en.html
Thus Joe, for all intents and purposes, regardless of whatever impenetrable barrier may have been imagined for the the speed of sound, the speed of light is, despite all attempts to scale the wall, a impenetrable wall for any particle with 'weight' (including the nearly weightless neutrinos)bornagain77
September 22, 2012
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Photons reaching us from stars will have their trajectories altered by large masses like galaxies. This observation is consistent with photons having mass.
Gravity also affects time. Does that mean time also has mass? :roll:
To get back to your “non-material” designer, just what is he made of?
I don't have one and the design inference cannot tell us if the designer(s) is (are) material or non-material. That said I say that energy is non-material. Ya see Einstein said that matter and energy are DIFFERENT manifestations of the same thing. I will stick with him.Joe
September 22, 2012
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Mung, No haven't read it. I will check the local libraries.Joe
September 22, 2012
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bornagain- Thanks again two things, one for clarification- radio waves- not of infinite mass even though they travel the speed of light- energy yes, mass no-> yes or no The other is what if the equation only applies in specific circumstances or even better is the same as the wall we thought we would hit by traveling the speed of sound? The specific circumstance would be accelerating an object at rest, of X mass, to the speed of light and not to objects already in motion.Joe
September 22, 2012
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correction:
,,,Moreover, concluding from all lines of evidence we now have (many of which I have NOT listed here),,,
bornagain77
September 22, 2012
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As well, as with the scientifically verified tunnel for special relativity, we also have scientific confirmation of extreme ‘tunnel curvature’, within space-time, to a eternal ‘event horizon’ at black holes. Here is a visual representation of that curvature:
Space-Time of a Black hole http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0VOn9r4dq8
But to continue on with the main topic,,, hypothetically traveling at the speed of light in this universe would be instantaneous travel for the person going at the speed of light. This is because time does not pass for them, yet, and this is a very big ‘yet’ to take note of; this ‘timeless’ travel is still not instantaneous and transcendent to our temporal framework of time (as quantum teleportation is), i.e. Speed of light travel, to our temporal frame of reference, is still not completely transcendent of our framework since light appears to take time to travel from our perspective. Yet, in quantum teleportation of information, the ‘time not passing’, i.e. ‘eternal’, framework is not only achieved in the speed of light framework/dimension, but is also ‘instantaneously’ achieved in our temporal framework. That is to say, the instantaneous teleportation/travel of quantum information is instantaneous to both the temporal and speed of light frameworks, not just the speed of light framework. Information teleportation/travel is not limited by time, nor space, in any way, shape or form, in any frame of reference, as light is seemingly limited to us. Thus ‘pure transcendent information’ (in quantum teleportaion experiments) is shown to be timeless (eternal) and completely transcendent of all material frameworks. Moreover, concluding from all lines of evidence we now have (many of which I have listed here); transcendent, eternal, infinite information is indeed real and the framework in which ‘It’ resides is the primary reality (highest dimension) that can exist, (in so far as our limited perception of a primary reality, highest dimension, can be discerned).
"An illusion can never go faster than the speed limit of reality" Akiane Kramarik - Child Prodigy -
Logic also dictates 'a decision' must have been made, by the 'transcendent, eternal, infinite information' from the primary timeless (eternal) reality 'It' inhabits, in order to purposely create a temporal reality with highly specified, irreducible complex, parameters from a infinite set of possibilities in the proper sequential order. Thus this infinite transcendent information is the primary reality of our reality and is shown to be alive by yet another line of evidence besides the necessity for a ‘first mover’ to explain quantum wave collapse. verse and music:
Psalm 115:2-3 Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is now their God? Our God is in heaven; he does whatever pleases him. Evanescence - The Other Side (Lyric Video) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiIvtRg7-Lc
bornagain77
September 22, 2012
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Thus Joe, if you will allow me to use 'weight of mass' in a fairly generic sense to reflect the infinity present in the equation that I showed earlier, this is what I have pieced together thus far, in my very limited ability, for the structure of reality:, ,,,Save for 'quantum information', they are correct in their 'like everything else' statement they make in this following article.
Einstein was right, neutrino researchers admit - June 2012 Excerpt: Scientists on Friday said that an experiment which challenged Einstein's theory on the speed of light had been flawed and that sub-atomic particles (neutrinos) -- like everything else -- are indeed bound by the universe's speed limit. http://phys.org/news/2012-06-einstein-neutrino.html
The weight of mass becomes infinite at the speed of light, thus mass will never go the speed of light. Yet, mass would disappear from our sight if it could go the speed of light, because, from our non-speed of light perspective, distance in direction of travel will shrink to zero for the mass going the speed of light. Whereas conversely, if mass could travel at the speed of light, its size will stay the same while all other frames of reference not traveling the speed of light will disappear from its sight.
Special Relativity - Time Dilation and Length Contraction - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSRIyDfo_mY
Of note; the following recent study, with a fairly ingenious thought experiment, cleared up some loose ends in relativity concerning time's relation to space. Loose ends that have been ample fodder for much of the science fiction of time travel:
Physicists continue work to abolish time as fourth dimension of space - April 2012 Excerpt: “Time dilatation simply means that, in a faster inertial system, the velocity of change slows down and this is valid for all observers.,, Our research confirms Gödel's vision: time is not a physical dimension of space through which one could travel into the past or future.” http://phys.org/news/2012-04-physicists-abolish-fourth-dimension-space.html
Moreover time, as least as far as we think we understand time, would come to a complete stop at the speed of light. To grasp the whole 'time coming to a complete stop at the speed of light' concept a little more easily, imagine moving away from the face of a clock at the speed of light. Would not the hands on the clock stay stationary as you moved away from the face of the clock at the speed of light? Moving away from the face of a clock at the speed of light happens to be the same 'thought experiment' that gave Einstein his breakthrough insights into e=mc2.
Albert Einstein - Special Relativity - Insight Into Eternity - 'thought experiment' video http://www.metacafe.com/w/6545941/
,,,Yet, even though light has this 'eternal' attribute in regards to our temporal framework of time, for us to hypothetically travel at the speed of light, in this universe, will still only get us to first base as far as quantum entanglement, or teleportation, is concerned.
Light and Quantum Entanglement Reflect Some Characteristics Of God - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4102182
That is to say, traveling at the speed of light will only get us to the place where time, as we understand it, comes to complete stop for light, i.e. gets us to the eternal, 'past and future folding into now', framework of time. This higher dimension, 'eternal', inference for the time framework of light is warranted because light is not 'frozen within time' yet it is shown that time, as we understand it, does not pass for light.
"I've just developed a new theory of eternity." Albert Einstein - The Einstein Factor - Reader's Digest "The laws of relativity have changed timeless existence from a theological claim to a physical reality. Light, you see, is outside of time, a fact of nature proven in thousands of experiments at hundreds of universities. I don’t pretend to know how tomorrow can exist simultaneously with today and yesterday. But at the speed of light they actually and rigorously do. Time does not pass." Richard Swenson - More Than Meets The Eye, Chpt. 12
Though there are many confirmations of time dilation,,,
Experimental confirmation of Time Dilation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation#Experimental_confirmation
,,, this following confirmation of time dilation is my favorite since they have actually caught time dilation on film (of note light travels approx. 1 foot in a nanosecond (billionth of a second) whilst the camera takes a trillion pictures a second)
Amazing --- light filmed at 1,000,000,000,000 Frames/Second! - video (so fast that at 9:00 Minute mark of video the time dilation effect of relativity is caught on film) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoHeWgLvlXI
It is also very interesting to note that we have two very different ‘eternities of time’ revealed by our time dilation experiments. One 'eternity' for being deeper in a gravitation well and another 'eternity' for accelerating towards the speed of light:
Time dilation Excerpt: Time dilation: special vs. general theories of relativity: In Albert Einstein's theories of relativity, time dilation in these two circumstances can be summarized: 1. --In special relativity (or, hypothetically far from all gravitational mass), clocks that are moving with respect to an inertial system of observation are measured to be running slower. (i.e. For any observer accelerating, hypothetically, to the speed of light, time, as we understand it, will come to a complete stop). 2.--In general relativity, clocks at lower potentials in a gravitational field—such as in closer proximity to a planet—are found to be running slower. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation
As well, it is interesting to note the optical effect, at the 3:22 minute mark of the following video, when the 3-Dimensional world ‘folds and collapses’ into a tunnel shape around the direction of travel as a 'hypothetical' observer moves towards the ‘higher dimension’ of the speed of light (of note: the following video was made by two Physics Professors from the University of Australia using a supercomputer):
Approaching The Speed Of Light - Optical Effects - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/5733303/
bornagain77
September 22, 2012
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Hey Joe, have you read: The Matter Myth: Dramatic Discoveries that Challenge Our Understanding of Physical RealityMung
September 22, 2012
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OK radio waves travel at the speed of light but because they have 0 resting mass they do not grow to infinite mass- radio waves are not objects. But they do contain energy. bornagain- yes I am remembering about relativistic mass Thanks again- much appreciated.Joe
September 22, 2012
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