We are told: The recipe for the origin of life has been revised

_{Denyse O'Leary

April 29, 2020

Intelligent Design, Origin Of Life}

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The proposed revision is a tweak on RNA world:

Recently, Nobel laureate Jack Szostak’s lab made serious headway in answering the life origin question by publishing the first recipe for making a spontaneously self-reproducing gene in a 2020 Journal of the American Chemical Society paper…
These observations together point to a chemically functional role of ANAs [arabinonucleic acids] that would significantly increase the rate of RNA synthesis and stability in the environment of a primordial Earth. Szostak’s unusual addition to his recipe likely became the “secret ingredient” to making the most plausible RNA-filled gazpacho to date. And with that, the scientific debate around the origins of life on Earth keeps on simmering.
Lauren Gandy, “Scientists have revised the recipe for the first gene and the origin of life” at Massive Science

Scientists revising their origin of life theories is—in the present climate—somewhat like fiction writers revising their novels. Nothing in the world wrong with it. But let’s be clear what level of real-world information we are talking about.

See also: Astonishing! Astrophysicist determines that the odds are against a random origin of life. One might ask why he thinks that “science” must find a random origin for life. Who decided that life originated randomly? What if it did not? Is science still committed to finding a random origin?

and

Welcome to “RNA world,” the five-star hotel of origin-of-life theories

Comments

In addition to the DNA sequences that code for pre-mRNA which is converted to mRNA after splicing, then translated to proteins by by the ribosome with the involvement of tRNA and aminoacyl-tRNA synthetase, there are also DNA sequences that serve as patterning code in TF-binding sites, promoter regions, enhancers, for activators and inhibitors, Also there are many DNA sequences that code for regulatory RNA transcripts. On top of all that there are epigenetic markers on different sites of the DNA. Also there are histone codes and chromatin remodeling issues. Then we are told to blindly believe that the whole enchilada is the result of some accidental event in a primordial warm pond and gazillion years of undirected variations and the almighty natural selection. Yeah, right.jawa_{May 5, 2020
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Just a refreshing lemonade for those who are experiencing the uncomfortable hangover after being intoxicated by the materialistic Kool-aid for so many years: https://evolutionnews.org/2020/05/my-inference-article-demonstrates-implausibility-of-natural-processes-explaining-the-origin-of-life/jawa_{May 5, 2020
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Ed George "Duh!" That is a non-response. Are you suggesting that the genetic code works through a series of chemical reactions?Barry Arrington_{May 4, 2020
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BA
Are you suggesting that the genetic code works through a series of chemical reactions?
Duh!Ed George_{May 4, 2020
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. #171, Ed, you are lying to yourself and hiding from documented experimental science and history. EVEN IN that documentation, MATERIALIST scientists will specifically warn that you can fool yourself and simply describe the chemical interactions within the system using nothing more than the dynamical laws of nature, but you cannot actually describe the function of system from those laws. That is why every biology textbook on the surface of the planet (the entire edifice of biology) has complimentary descriptions of the system. The two cannot be integrated. The reason you will not engage the question I asked you at #81, is that it utterly destroys your lie. The mental excuse that you must have the designer's hair color and shoe size is destroyed. The excuse that we don't know anything about how life began on earth is destroyed. And the very first thing destroyed is your incoherent God-of-the-Gaps excuse. It is destroyed by science and reason. No one is telling you (at least not I) that you have to believe in any God, Ed, we are telling you (via documented experimental evidence) that you can't describe the physical system of specification that makes all life possible without recourse to discontinuous association and irreducible complexity. You can't describe it without the onset of spatial orientation. You can’t describe it without rate-independent control. You can’t describe it without the mandatory simultaneous coordination of multiple unrelated encoded sequences. And you can't describe it without also describing the same physical organization found in the use of language and mathematics - two unambiguous correlates of intelligence. These are documented facts Ed. These are the facts given to us through the methodical practice of science and reason. Frankly Ed, as an atheist in general, you are a-dime-a-dozen. You will go through your life and to your grave with your hands in the air, telling any gods out there to f 'off – and that is your personal choice and your right to do so. But you do damage to society and to others when you attempt to convince and deceive people into believing that you have science and reason on your side. You have nothing of the sort. So if your many prior actions on this blog (comment #81) do not fully communicate to casual readers that you are a snake in the grass, then we will just have to continue to point out that you clearly do not have science and reason on your side, indeed, you refuse to engage them at all.Upright BiPed_{May 4, 2020
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Ed George,
DNA is a chemical that interacts with RNA and several amino acids to produce proteins.
Are you suggesting that the genetic code works through a series of chemical reactions?Barry Arrington_{May 4, 2020
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Wow! So much nonsense written in one comment @171.jawa_{May 4, 2020
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Ed George:
DNA is a chemical that interacts with RNA and several amino acids to produce proteins.
That is your simpleton's version, anyway. Your simpleton ways are the only thing which allows you to say what you do. Your beliefs are based on your simpleton PoV.
Using these facts to conclude that it was the result of ID is just a God-of-the-gaps argument.
We don't only use those facts. Those facts do help. But it is our knowledge of cause-and-effect relationships that leads us to the Design inference. And the Design inference is no more a God-of-the-gap argument than is archaeology and forensic science.
If you want to provide some substance, start researching how the designer created life.
Look, troll, YOUR side is the mechanistic scenario so it is YOU and yours that needs to provide some substance. Start researching how blind and mindless processes didit or shut up. Ed George is the worst type of cynic. Too afraid to ante up and willfully ignorant. Not a good combination but it's all the evos have, really.ET_{May 4, 2020
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KF
. I notice, again, you failed to cogently, substantially address the specific issues on the table, from me as well as UB. Duly noted. KF
There is nothing of substance to address. DNA is a chemical that interacts with RNA and several amino acids to produce proteins. The chemistry behind this is very well understood. DNA (or RNA) is required for all life as we know it. We don’t know how life began or how/when DNA/RNA first appeared. Using these facts to conclude that it was the result of ID is just a God-of-the-gaps argument. If you want to provide some substance, start researching how the designer created life, how she programmed the cell, how she created the chemicals necessary for life to be possible, etc?Ed George_{May 4, 2020
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AaronS1978: “ If he has the recipe to ool why has he not produced it yet “ That’s a good question indeed. But what does he mean by “life”? Is his definition correct? Dunno. To me those smart guys are working on OOW, not OOL. ;)jawa_{May 4, 2020
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Not sure, Dr. Cronin was making artificial cellular systems last I checked. Dr. Szostak from what I gathered is just declaring he has a recipe. My ORIGINAL question was if he has the recipe to ool why has he not produced it yet.AaronS1978_{May 4, 2020
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Has Dr Szostak been in the program Unbelievable?jawa_{May 3, 2020
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One issue to deal with could be determining how close are Dr Szostak and Dr Cronin to win the Evo2.0 OOL $10M prize. There yet?jawa_{May 3, 2020
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It seems like the discussion has digressed away from the OP topic related to Dr Szostak’s latest paper on his attempt to show how OOL could have happened. Some folks seem to avoid the topic. They seem to prefer off topic discussions. Perhaps it would help if they step aside and keep off the discussion. :)jawa_{May 3, 2020
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Barry Arrington: Go ahead, have another go at it; I know you will. And when you do, I will exhort you to do better again. Nah, time to quit.JVL_{May 3, 2020
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Seversky @ 152, > if you really believe there is a much better afterlife waiting for you, what are the reasons that compel you to stay in this “vale of tears”? What plausible or even possible reason could your God have for requiring you to do it? Among the known reasons: We were created and put here to live, reproduce, raise families, strive to grow and improve, help each other, acknowledge that we are not our own creators, i.e., to exhibit humility, and to seek God. We are not to kill ourselves for selfish reasons. We are to strive for virtue as God defines it--because we clearly can't find it ourselves. And of course there can be many reasons for our existence of which we are not aware; perhaps God has not informed us, or perhaps the reasons are beyond our ability to comprehend. That is not unexpected if there is indeed a higher being than us.EDTA_{May 3, 2020
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EG, turnabout attempt. Let's just say on the above that your IF is a very big word. I notice, again, you failed to cogently, substantially address the specific issues on the table, from me as well as UB. Duly noted. KFkairosfocus_{May 3, 2020
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KF
Do you see the lurking begged questions?
Yes, I do. But it is painfully obvious that you don’t.Ed George_{May 3, 2020
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I shouldn’t have used talk to text, there’s a ton of grammatical errors, sorry everyone “Why is it that atheists don’t” Not “an atheists” “I’m certain “not “I certain” UghAaronS1978_{May 3, 2020
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“or you’re delusional to your own actions” Aaron Sev knows exactly what he or she is doing, not delusional at all. This is one very hateful individual IMO. Vividvividbleau_{May 3, 2020
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“Mr. Bush replied, “I don’t know that atheists should be regarded as citizens, nor should they be regarded as patriotic. This is one nation under God” This is BS and what is sad is you know it is BS yet you post this “allegedly” BS comment. Vividvividbleau_{May 3, 2020
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^^^ Hmmm, and here I thought me and Seversky got along pretty well compared to my 'crappy' relationship with all the other atheists on UD :)bornagain77_{May 3, 2020
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@ Seversky I just read all of your posts You either completely misunderstood everything I wrote, you don’t care, or you’re delusional to your own actions Asides from you and BA77’s poor interplay (BA77 will chastise your opinion first and visa versa), you generally throw the first jabs and make fallacious claims about religious groups (Generally evil ignorant science hating Christians) which usually get shut down, with maybe a few exceptions. I normally give you the benefit of the doubt But some of the things you say about Christians are ridiculous and you obviously ignore anything that is counter to your personal opinion and blind biased for Christians which I question now why you are even on this site I am terribly sorry you feel that way and I am terribly sorry anybody did something to you to make you this way, unfortunately it is a 2 Way street though. (Ive suffered plenty by the hands of anti-theists and I never looked to pick a fight with them) your constant attacks on Christians makes you a hypocrite By the way atheist atrocities go for miles too you know Joseph Stalin, any kind of communist regime that embraced ridding themselves of religion. China comes to mind. The usual suspects that you probably ignore Should I quote the myriad of horrible things said about Christians, Jews, and Muslims at the hands of nonbelievers? does it really matter? And trust me you don’t have to try to lecture me on the atrocities of religion, I certain you have fully memorized. All I can do is try not to make those mistakes You complain about people being intolerant to you but all I ever see is you being intolerant to Christians, often you’re the one that brings up how horrible Christians are. that’s all I’ve experienced from you Now I believe your questions were answered by both me and EDTA quite well and it was ignored by you By the way why is it an atheists don’t kill themselves when the statistical likelihood of them being happy is under 50%? Stupid question right, don’t ask Christians why they don’t kill them selves to be with god, it’s an equally stupid question Again I’m sorry you feel that way but your opinion of Christians is both biased and ignorant and shows that you do not care to look at why you could be wrong And don’t bring up BA77, ET, and you being a prime example of what you are complaining about. I understand the three of you have a crappy relationships, I don’t know how that started and I don’t know how it will end Good luckAaronS1978_{May 3, 2020
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seversky:
if you really believe there is a much better afterlife waiting for you, what are the reasons that compel you to stay in this “vale of tears”?
That "much better afterlife" is contingent how you how are here. There isn't any "opt out" clause.
What plausible or even possible reason could your God have for requiring you to do it?
Pretty much the same all parents have for their children. Get out there, learn, find and fulfill your destiny.ET_{May 3, 2020
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Sev at 148 claims:
I can live a perfectly consistent life as an atheist if, for no other reason than, I am free to construct any “worldview” that suits me.
Uhh well, as should be needless to say, 'constructing' a worldview does not reflect the worldview that you hold to be the true worldview, i.e. atheistic materialism, is called living in a delusion. In some people delusional thinking is a severe form of mental illness. So to repeat, if it is impossible for you to live your life consistently as if atheistic materialism were actually true, then atheistic materialism cannot possibly reflect reality as it really is but atheistic materialism must instead be based on a delusion.
Existential Argument against Atheism – November 1, 2013 by Jason Petersen 1. If a worldview is true then you should be able to live consistently with that worldview. 2. Atheists are unable to live consistently with their worldview. 3. If you can’t live consistently with an atheist worldview then the worldview does not reflect reality. 4. If a worldview does not reflect reality then that worldview is a delusion. 5. If atheism is a delusion then atheism cannot be true. Conclusion: Atheism is false. http://answersforhope.com/existential-argument-atheism/
Thus Seversky’s claim that he can live his life consistently as if his atheistic materialism were actually true is simply a false claim, (as he himself basically admitted). As the following article notes, “Nobody thinks his daughter is just molecules in motion and nothing but; nobody thinks the Holocaust was evil, but only in a relative, provisional sense. A materialist who lived his life according to his professed convictions—understanding himself to have no moral agency at all, seeing his friends and enemies and family as genetically determined robots—wouldn’t just be a materialist: He’d be a psychopath.”
The Heretic – Who is Thomas Nagel and why are so many of his fellow academics condemning him? – March 25, 2013 Excerpt:,,,Fortunately, materialism is never translated into life as it’s lived. As colleagues and friends, husbands and mothers, wives and fathers, sons and daughters, materialists never put their money where their mouth is. Nobody thinks his daughter is just molecules in motion and nothing but; nobody thinks the Holocaust was evil, but only in a relative, provisional sense. A materialist who lived his life according to his professed convictions—understanding himself to have no moral agency at all, seeing his friends and enemies and family as genetically determined robots—wouldn’t just be a materialist: He’d be a psychopath. http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/heretic_707692.html?page=3
As to your claim that the Christian must live with contradictions in the Bible, that is also a false claim. First off, you offhandedly granted that I can live my consistently as a Christian,, i.e. as if my life really does have meaning and purpose. Secondly, your gripe is with what you believe to be contradictions in the Bible, not with how I am actually living my life right now. But anyways, as to your claim of alleged contradictions, Inspiring Philosophy has done excellent work debunking practically all of the atheist's claims for supposed contradictions in the Bible:
Bible Contradictions Refuted - video playlist https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWq3fVQuSuA&list=PL1mr9ZTZb3TXRZs52bpnVfiPM9TD_Ukfo
Verse:
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
bornagain77_{May 3, 2020
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JVL:
Granted, it may have been slightly off the main topic of the thread
If you mean it was a transparent attempt to change the subject and hijack the thread, you are correct. But I don't think that is what you mean.
I was trying to engage with a particular idea;
Of course, any idea but the one under discussion. You tried to hijack the thread because you are too gutless to engage with UB on the topic he asked you about. And you keep trying to justify that. Give up. It cannot be justified.
I’m not pointing fingers and accusing anyone of anything.
Well that's good, because no one else has displayed cowardice and dishonesty.
I am NOT trying to trip [Upright Biped] up or make him look foolish.
Of course not. You were trying to change subject, because you can't trip him up or make him look foolish. You were literally speechless when it came to responding to the question on the table. Your dishonesty, cowardice and rudeness are there for all to see. JVL, you have attempted to justify your behavior over and over and over. I admit to having a (probably morbid) curiosity about how long you will keep that up. Again, I exhort you to better behavior. Do better. BTW, when you are caught out in bad behavior, as you have been, trying to justify it -- even trying to make yourself out as some sort of victim -- only exacerbates the original wrong. Doubling down does not remedy it. Your antics are cringeworthy. Please stop. I know you won't but I will continue to exhort you to better behavior. Go ahead, have another go at it; I know you will. And when you do, I will exhort you to do better again.Barry Arrington_{May 3, 2020
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Sev, you full well know that cold blooded suicide is self-murder. Your objection falls apart, tellingly. KFkairosfocus_{May 3, 2020
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EDTA@ 126
I would also ask of believers, if you genuinely believe that there is an afterlife spent in a state of infinite bliss in heaven with your God and all who have gone before, why are you wasting your time here in this “vale of tears”? Why not move on?
Because we have more than one imperative that we live by. I have heard this argument before: “Why don’t you all just commit suicide and get to heaven right now?” But this assumes that we have exactly one priority to our existence: getting to heaven by any means possible as fast as possible. Actually our existence is a lot more complex than that, and we are not expected to hurry the process up, but to do good here, bring others into the fellowship, etc.
I thought this would come up when I wrote that. To be clear, I am not advocating that Christians should commit suicide, I am simply asking the obvious question: if you really believe there is a much better afterlife waiting for you, what are the reasons that compel you to stay in this "vale of tears"? What plausible or even possible reason could your God have for requiring you to do it?Seversky_{May 3, 2020
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This is getting really intriguing: Who is closer to win the Evo2.0 OOL $10M prize? Dr Szostak or Dr Cronin ? Could another lab enter the contest and win the race? Could it be Dr Venter or he’s too busy with his business deals? As we see both Dr Szostak and Dr Cronin making real progress in their research and getting closer to the goal, could they win the Evo2.0 OOL $10M prize later this year or next year? Could they both reach the goal simultaneously? :)jawa_{May 3, 2020
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Sev, a mechanical an/or chance driven entity may be a computational substrate but it cannot be a rationally free entity, much less a morally governed one. That comes straight from the implications of dynamic-stochastic entities. KF PS: That God or an intelligence can reason, project world models, weigh alternatives, choose goals and identify or develop appropriate means, techniques and production systems to desired ends is not having a clue? Or are you demanding dynamic-stochastic explanation for agency. Which is a question begging blunder of first magnitude.kairosfocus_{May 3, 2020
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