Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

We are told: The recipe for the origin of life has been revised

Share
Facebook
Twitter
LinkedIn
Flipboard
Print
Email

The proposed revision is a tweak on RNA world:

Recently, Nobel laureate Jack Szostak’s lab made serious headway in answering the life origin question by publishing the first recipe for making a spontaneously self-reproducing gene in a 2020 Journal of the American Chemical Society paper…

These observations together point to a chemically functional role of ANAs [arabinonucleic acids] that would significantly increase the rate of RNA synthesis and stability in the environment of a primordial Earth. Szostak’s unusual addition to his recipe likely became the “secret ingredient” to making the most plausible RNA-filled gazpacho to date. And with that, the scientific debate around the origins of life on Earth keeps on simmering.

Lauren Gandy, “Scientists have revised the recipe for the first gene and the origin of life” at Massive Science

Scientists revising their origin of life theories is—in the present climate—somewhat like fiction writers revising their novels. Nothing in the world wrong with it. But let’s be clear what level of real-world information we are talking about.

See also: Astonishing! Astrophysicist determines that the odds are against a random origin of life. One might ask why he thinks that “science” must find a random origin for life. Who decided that life originated randomly? What if it did not? Is science still committed to finding a random origin?

and

Welcome to “RNA world,” the five-star hotel of origin-of-life theories

Comments
.
Can I just ask a clarifying question regarding your views?
A question that clarifies the challenge, so that you can respond to it?Upright BiPed
May 2, 2020
May
05
May
2
02
2020
01:42 PM
1
01
42
PM
PDT
JVL:
How far do you think diversification can go via only a process of unguided step-by-step minor inheritable modifications?
According to the paper "Waiting for TWO Mutations", not very far at all.ET
May 2, 2020
May
05
May
2
02
2020
01:42 PM
1
01
42
PM
PDT
Ed George:
As are the insult riddled comments of ET...
Astute observations are not insults. Eddie. Proving that you are an imbecile is not an insult. It is what it is. And I am not religious.ET
May 2, 2020
May
05
May
2
02
2020
01:41 PM
1
01
41
PM
PDT
There still isn't any materialistic theory of evolution. Why is that? There isn't any materialistic theory on the OoL, either. Why is that? Materialism has never added anything to our knowledge. Materialism has never solved anything. Why is that?ET
May 2, 2020
May
05
May
2
02
2020
01:38 PM
1
01
38
PM
PDT
.
A living thing must be specified among alternatives in order to exist. It’s impossible for materialists to explain the ability to specify a thing among alternatives without discontinuous association and irreducible complexity.
C'mon Ed. Don't run away again. Defend materialism.Upright BiPed
May 2, 2020
May
05
May
2
02
2020
01:38 PM
1
01
38
PM
PDT
Upright BiPed: A living thing must be specified among alternatives in order to exist. It’s impossible for materialists to explain the ability to specify a thing among alternatives without discontinuous association and irreducible complexity. Can I just ask a clarifying question regarding your views? Let's say we start with a multi-cellular life form with a few organs and sub-systems like digestion and circulation, etc. So the 'code' is in place and the population is viable and thriving. How far do you think diversification can go via only a process of unguided step-by-step minor inheritable modifications?JVL
May 2, 2020
May
05
May
2
02
2020
01:38 PM
1
01
38
PM
PDT
AaronS1978 May 1, 2020 at 11:10 pm “A similar question can been asked of atheists. (Assuming you didn’t ask what I think you asked)“ Well done re 57 Wasn’t it Sartre or some other existentialist that said the only honest question for the intellectually honest atheist was when to commit suicide? Vividvividbleau
May 2, 2020
May
05
May
2
02
2020
01:27 PM
1
01
27
PM
PDT
AaronS1978
We should’ve just been talking about ool
But given that religions claim to have the answer to OOL, it would be difficult to talk about OOL without religion popping up.Ed George
May 2, 2020
May
05
May
2
02
2020
01:25 PM
1
01
25
PM
PDT
.
A living thing must be specified among alternatives in order to exist. It’s impossible for materialists to explain the ability to specify a thing among alternatives without discontinuous association and irreducible complexity.
That’s just 32 words, Ed – less words than you once used to try and deceive people here that you were an ID proponent based on your religious faith, or less words than you used to say that you had no moral obligations to anyone if you lived outside their culture, or less words than you used to tell a grown Christian man here that you felt sorry for his wife if she wasn’t getting it like your wife gets it from you, and certainly less words than the numerous occasions you’ve pretended to be offended in a confrontation here so that you could avoid the substance of the confrontation.Upright BiPed
May 2, 2020
May
05
May
2
02
2020
01:22 PM
1
01
22
PM
PDT
. Ah yes … the religious defense of materialism through the art of wordsmithing, otherwise known as dissembling, otherwise known as obfuscation. Very scientific. A living thing must be specified among alternatives in order to exist. It’s impossible for materialists to explain the ability to specify a thing among alternatives without discontinuous association and irreducible complexity.Upright BiPed
May 2, 2020
May
05
May
2
02
2020
01:11 PM
1
01
11
PM
PDT
Honestly this shouldn’t even of gone into religion and I wish it didn’t. We should’ve just been talking about oolAaronS1978
May 2, 2020
May
05
May
2
02
2020
01:10 PM
1
01
10
PM
PDT
UBP, why would I want to explain “meaning”?Ed George
May 2, 2020
May
05
May
2
02
2020
01:00 PM
1
01
00
PM
PDT
. Ed at #71. Here are just 25 words for you. Have at it:
Meaning exist.. There is no meaning among the dynamic properties of matter. It's impossible for materialists to explain meaning without discontinuous association and irreducible complexity.
Upright BiPed
May 2, 2020
May
05
May
2
02
2020
12:33 PM
12
12
33
PM
PDT
EG, This is your in decline. Sinach speaks, prophetically. KF PS: Lyrics:
"Way Maker" You are here Moving in our midst I worship you I worship you You are here Working in this place I worship you I worship you You are here Moving in our midst I worship you I worship you You are here Working in this place I worship you I worship you Way maker Miracle worker Promise keeper Light in the darkness That is who you are Way maker Miracle worker Promise keeper Light in the darkness My God That is who you are You are here You are here Touching every heart I worship you I worship you You are here You are here Healing every heart I worship you I worship you I worship you I worship you You are here Turning lives around Turning lives around I worship you I worship you I worship you I worship you You are here You are here Mending every heart Mending every heart I worship you I worship you I worship you I worship you We call you "way maker" Miracle worker Promise keeper Light in the darkness My God, my God That is who you are We call you "way maker" Miracle worker Promise keeper Light in the darkness My God, my God That is who you are Lift up your hands You wipe away all tears You mend a broken heart You're the answer to it all You wipe away all tears You mend all the broken heart You're the answer to it all (to it all) Jesus Way maker Miracle worker Promise keeper Light in the darkness My God, my God That is who you are Way maker Way maker Miracle worker Promise keeper Light in the darkness My God, my God That is who you are Way maker Way maker Miracle worker Promise keeper Promise keeper Light in the darkness My God, my God That is who you are Way maker Way maker Way maker Way maker Miracle worker Promise keeper Light in the darkness That is who you are Way maker Miracle worker Promise keeper That is who you are That is who you are Lift up your hands Way maker Miracle worker Promise keeper Light in the darkness That is who you are Way maker Miracle worker Promise keeper Light in the darkness That is who you are ...to you He's always on top He's a way maker ... It doesn't matter how long it takes Lift up your hands and worship Way maker Miracle worker Promise keeper Light in the darkness That is who you are One more time of your life Way maker Miracle worker Promise keeper Light in the darkness My God, my God That is who you are No one knows What he's done for me I don't know about you I don't know about you But that's why I praise The way I do I just wanna surprise him Come on
kairosfocus
May 2, 2020
May
05
May
2
02
2020
11:42 AM
11
11
42
AM
PDT
EG, your continued rhetorical stunts simply confirm your want of seriousness. This means you reflect some of the driving dynamics behind the decline you suggested. The issues on the table are of first seriousness, but that pricks you but little. At least, Saul was kicking against pricks. The numbness where there should be pricks, is actually a warning. KF PS: For those who are unfamiliar with my allusion, here is the Pauline diagnosis of our civilisation in a besotted, forgetting God mode:
Eph 4:17 So this I say, and solemnly affirm together with the Lord [as in His presence], that you must no longer live as the [unbelieving] Gentiles live, in the futility of their minds [and in the foolishness and emptiness of their souls], 18 for their [moral] understanding is darkened and their reasoning is clouded; [they are] alienated and self-banished from the life of God [with no share in it; this is] because of the [willful] ignorance and spiritual blindness that is [deep-seated] within them, because of the hardness and insensitivity of their heart. 19 And they, [the ungodly in their spiritual apathy], having become callous and unfeeling, have given themselves over [as prey] to unbridled sensuality, eagerly craving the practice of every kind of impurity [that their desires may demand]. 20 But you did not learn Christ in this way! 21 If in fact you have [really] heard Him and have been taught by Him, just as truth is in Jesus [revealed in His life and personified in Him] [--> Cf here in context], 22 that, regarding your previous way of life, you put off your old self [completely discard your former nature], which is being corrupted through deceitful desires, 23 and be continually renewed in the spirit of your mind [having a fresh, untarnished mental and spiritual attitude], 24 and put on the new self [the regenerated and renewed nature], created in God’s image, [godlike] in the righteousness and holiness of the truth [living in a way that expresses to God your gratitude for your salvation]. [AMP]
kairosfocus
May 2, 2020
May
05
May
2
02
2020
11:32 AM
11
11
32
AM
PDT
EG at 72, "My comment was about the decline in religious affiliation, not the decline in Christianity." funny,,, Muslims are growing in America
New estimates show U.S. Muslim population continues to grow https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/01/03/new-estimates-show-u-s-muslim-population-continues-to-grow/
New age is growing
Analyst says 'New Age' beliefs more popular as fewer Americans follow traditional religions https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/414129-analyst-says-new-age-beliefs-are-partially-a-reflection-in-more
Judaism is growing
America’s 7.5 million Jews are older, whiter and more liberal than the country as a whole In the past seven years, the American Jewish population has grown 10 percent. https://www.jta.org/2019/10/07/united-states/americas-7-5-million-jews-are-older-whiter-and-more-liberal-than-the-country-as-a-whole
Thus I wonder what 'religious affiliation' EG could possibly be talking about if he is not talking about Christianity.bornagain77
May 2, 2020
May
05
May
2
02
2020
10:03 AM
10
10
03
AM
PDT
EG 71 offers a cutesy, smart aleck, remark? And how did that not exactly confirm what KF noted about you, i.e. "that you are not participating in a serious discussion on the merits but only to push an agenda with rhetoric laced with obvious hostility."???bornagain77
May 2, 2020
May
05
May
2
02
2020
09:53 AM
9
09
53
AM
PDT
BA77
You did just that on this very thread in post 60 where you referenced a study, supposedly, noting the decline of Christianity...
This is a prime example of why I very seldom respond to your comments. My comment was about the decline in religious affiliation, not the decline in Christianity. There is no point in trying to have a discussion with someone who distorts his opponent’s comments to better dispute them. Ed our.Ed George
May 2, 2020
May
05
May
2
02
2020
09:49 AM
9
09
49
AM
PDT
KF@70. Your response was only 787 words. You will have to pick up your pace to match BA77’s 1,561 word response. :)Ed George
May 2, 2020
May
05
May
2
02
2020
09:29 AM
9
09
29
AM
PDT
EG, "thousand word RANTS" is unacceptable, more than condescending, inaccurate and contempt laced, an atmosphere-poisoning tactic. It says more about you than about the state of issues on the merits. Particularly, it directly implies that you are not participating in a serious discussion on the merits but only to push an agenda with rhetoric laced with obvious hostility. I suggest, you would be better advised to think again. I start with the current global focus. It is increasingly clear that HCQ + cocktails is an effective treatment for Covid, but has become caught up in the US 4th gen civil war's information battlespace. Fair comment, people in numbers are probably paying for that, needlessly, with their lives. Linked, there is no one size fits all and only Big-S Science method that sets a gold standard for credible inductive evidence. In particular, double-blind, placebo control studies are controversial for several reasons [including the ethics of do no harm] and it is manifestly improper to use this design as a threshold "below" which, evidence is severely discounted or dismissed. This is contributory to the fair comment just above. Next, we can clearly see a deeply entrenched cultural pattern where hyperskepticism joined to the ideology of Scientism [especially evolutionary materialistic scientism] has been pushed into the role proper to the virtue of prudence. Namely, following a Catechism lesson:
Prudence is the virtue that disposes practical reason to discern our true good in every circumstance and to choose the right means of achieving it; "the prudent man looks where he is going." 65 "Keep sane and sober for your prayers." 66 Prudence is "right reason in action," writes St. Thomas Aquinas, following Aristotle. 67 It is not to be confused with timidity or fear, nor with duplicity or dissimulation. It is called auriga virtutum (the charioteer of the virtues); it guides the other virtues by setting rule and measure. It is prudence that immediately guides the judgment of conscience. The prudent man determines and directs his conduct in accordance with this judgment. With the help of this virtue we apply moral principles [--> and first principles of sound reason more generally] to particular cases without error and overcome doubts about the good to achieve and the evil to avoid.
That sort of thinking is my context for noting what should be a commonplace of our lives as rational, responsible creatures. Namely, that inescapably, our rationality is governed by first duties, to truth, to right reason, to prudence, to sound conscience, to neighbour, to fairness and justice, etc. That which is inescapable . . . your own arguments cannot escape these appeals . . . is self evidently, manifestly true and undeniable on pain of patent self-refutation. But such means, instantly, that we are morally governed in ways that are intelligible, indeed, we here see a pattern of built in laws of our nature. Laws which therefore frame a natural law basis for community and civil law. Law, then is not merely disguised imposition by power. It is inescapably accountable before the first duties of reason. That is why, say, murder, is a crime by itself. Now, this points to the vexed IS-OUGHT gap, which can only be bridged in the root of reality, on pain of ungrounded ought. For that, after centuries of debates, there is but one serious candidate. (If you doubt, simply propose another adequate candidate _____) Namely, the inherently good and utterly wise creator God, a necessary and maximally great being. One, worthy of our loyalty and of the reasonable, responsible service of doing the good in accord with our manifest nature. In that context, we find that the religion you principally have in mind may well need reformation, but is founded on core truths that are well warranted to moral certainty. The degree of warrant that attaches to matters of fact. Which, rather puts certain common attitudes, projections, talking points, sneers and arguments on the back foot. Truth comes first. Next, there is the issue of the design inference and its warrant as a matter of inductive warrant applied to the sciences. For that, I have come to hold that the pivotal case is the alphanumeric, algorithmic code found in DNA and functioning as a key part of biological life. Language applied to step by step goal directed procedures using molecular nanotech. Pretty definitive evidence of design, on many grounds. That is unwelcome, disparaged and dismissed in many quarters, indeed. But given the sort of poor reasoning we see in the face of manifest evidence and a pandemic, we should take time instead to see if our thinking is straight. Or are we doing little more than echoing Lewontin's notorious cat out of the bag remarks in January 1999. Some re-thinking is in order. KFkairosfocus
May 2, 2020
May
05
May
2
02
2020
09:05 AM
9
09
05
AM
PDT
Of related note: Although atheists continually deny seeing any evidence for Intelligent design, science itself betrays the atheist in his claim, Studies establish that the design inference is ‘knee jerk’ inference that is built into everyone, especially including atheists, and that atheists have to mentally work suppressing their “knee jerk” design inference!
Is Atheism a Delusion? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ii-bsrHB0o Richard Dawkins take heed: Even atheists instinctively believe in a creator says study - Mary Papenfuss - June 12, 2015 Excerpt: Three studies at Boston University found that even among atheists, the "knee jerk" reaction to natural phenomenon is the belief that they're purposefully designed by some intelligence, according to a report on the research in Cognition entitled the "Divided Mind of a disbeliever." The findings "suggest that there is a deeply rooted natural tendency to view nature as designed," writes a research team led by Elisa Järnefelt of Newman University. They also provide evidence that, in the researchers' words, "religious non-belief is cognitively effortful." Researchers attempted to plug into the automatic or "default" human brain by showing subjects images of natural landscapes and things made by human beings, then requiring lightning-fast responses to the question on whether "any being purposefully made the thing in the picture," notes Pacific-Standard. "Religious participants' baseline tendency to endorse nature as purposefully created was higher" than that of atheists, the study found. But non-religious participants "increasingly defaulted to understanding natural phenomena as purposefully made" when "they did not have time to censor their thinking," wrote the researchers. The results suggest that "the tendency to construe both living and non-living nature as intentionally made derives from automatic cognitive processes, not just practised explicit beliefs," the report concluded. The results were similar even among subjects from Finland, where atheism is not a controversial issue as it can be in the US. "Design-based intuitions run deep," the researchers conclude, "persisting even in those with no explicit religious commitment and, indeed, even among those with an active aversion to them." http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/richard-dawkins-take-heed-even-atheists-instinctively-believe-creator-says-study-1505712
It is not that Atheists do not see purpose and/or Design in nature and biology, it is that Atheists, for whatever severely misguided reason, live in denial of the purpose and/or Design that they themselves see in nature. And yes, ‘denialism’ is considered a mental illness.
In the psychology of human behavior, denialism is a person's choice to deny reality, as a way to avoid a psychologically uncomfortable truth. Denialism - Wikipedia
I hold the preceding studies to be confirming evidence for Romans 1:19-20
Romans 1:19-20 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
bornagain77
May 2, 2020
May
05
May
2
02
2020
08:41 AM
8
08
41
AM
PDT
^^^^^^^^^^ Ed George at 65, To call you an atheistic troll who bashes Christianity and who refuses to engage the science of ID is not an insult but is a fact. You did just that on this very thread in post 60 where you referenced a study, supposedly, noting the decline of Christianity (a false claim which I addressed at 62), a study that had nothing to do with the science for ID that was being discussed in the thread at that time ,,, And again, as AaronS1978 asked of atheists (and/or 'anti-theists' such as yourself), why waste your time doing that? If you really believe your life is without any purpose or meaning then why constantly bother Christians? Of related note, although atheism necessarily entails that the universe and our lives are meaningless, only a minority of atheists actually believe that is true,,
Major 'unbelief' conference held at Vatican - 28 MAY 2019 Excerpt: The multidisciplinary research programme,,, mapped the nature and diversity of 'unbelief' across six countries including Brazil, China, Denmark, Japan, UK and the USA. Researchers asked unbelievers across the six countries about attitudes to issues such as supernatural phenomena, whether the “universe is ultimately meaningless” and what values matter most to them. Their interim findings, published in a report “Understanding Unbelief Atheists and agnostics around the world”, showed that in all six countries, the majority of unbelievers identified as having 'no religion'. Unbelievers, the report found, exhibited significant diversity both within, and between, different countries. It also found that a lack of belief in God didn’t necessarily entail unbelief in other supernatural phenomena - the majority of unbelievers in all countries surveyed expressed belief in one or more supernatural phenomena. The report also found that, contrary to popular belief, only around a third of unbelievers in each country regard the universe to be ultimately meaningless. The report also tackles the implication of unbelief on morality and values, finding that most unbelievers endorse objective moral values, human dignity and attendant rights and the “deep value” of nature, at similar rates to the general populations in their countries. https://www.thetablet.co.uk/news/11733/major-unbelief-conference-held-at-vatican- Reports – Understanding Unbelief - Research - University of Kent - Atheists and agnostics around the world: Interim findings from 2019 research in Brazil, China, Denmark, Japan, the United Kingdom and the United States Excerpt conclusions: 5. Unbelief in God doesn’t necessarily entail unbelief in other supernatural phenomena. Atheists and (less so) agnostics exhibit lower levels of supernatural belief than do the wider populations. However, only minorities of atheists or agnostics in each of our countries appear to be thoroughgoing naturalists. (2.2, 2.3) 6. Another common supposition – that of the purposeless unbeliever, lacking anything to ascribe ultimate meaning to the universe – also does not bear scrutiny. While atheists and agnostics are disproportionately likely to affirm that the universe is ‘ultimately meaningless’ in five of our countries, it still remains a minority view among unbelievers in all six countries. (2.4) 7. Also perhaps challenging common suppositions: with only a few exceptions, atheists and agnostics endorse the realities of objective moral values, human dignity and attendant rights, and the ‘deep value’ of nature, at similar rates to the general populations in their countries. (3.1) 8. There is remarkably high agreement between unbelievers and general populations concerning the values most important for ‘finding meaning in the world and your own life’. ‘Family’ and ‘Freedom’ ranked highly for all. Also popular – albeit less unanimously so – were ‘Compassion’, ‘Truth’, ‘Nature’, and ‘Science’. (3.2) https://research.kent.ac.uk/understandingunbelief/wp-content/uploads/sites/45/2019/05/UUReportRome.pdf
The irresolvable dilemma for atheists is that if atheism is actually true, despite what atheists may want to believe to the contrary, then their lives are objectively meaningless, PERIOD! i.e. Hopeless Nihilism is their lot!
Is There Meaning to Life? - Dr Craig videos (animated video) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKGnXgH_CzE
Fortunately, the hopeless nihilism inherent within atheism is now shown to be false by science itself,
Atheistic Materialism vs Meaning, Value, and Purpose in Our Lives – video (review of the scientific evidence starts at the 13:00 minute mark) https://youtu.be/aqUxBSbFhog?t=782
For instance
“So we can go from 10 to the plus 25 to 10 to the minus 35. Now where are we? Well the size of a living cell is about 10 to the minus 5. Which is halfway between the two. In mathematical terms, we say it is the geometric mean. We live in the middle between the largest scale in physics,,, and the tiniest scale [in physics].” – Neil Turok as quoted at the 14:40 minute mark The Astonishing Simplicity of Everything – Neil Turok Public Lecture – video (12:00 minute mark, we live in the geometric mean, i.e. the middle, of the universe) https://youtu.be/f1x9lgX8GaE?t=715
The following interactive graph, gives very similar ‘rough ballpark’ figures, of 10 ^27 and 10-35, to Dr. Turok’s figures.
The Scale of the Universe https://htwins.net/scale2/
Whereas Dr. William Demski, in the following graph, gives a more precise figure of 8.8 x 10^26 M for the observable universe’s diameter, and 1.6 x 10^-35 for the Planck length which is the smallest length possible.
Magnifying the Universe https://academicinfluence.com/ie/mtu/
Dr. Dembski’s more precise interactive graph points out that the smallest scale visible to the human eye (as well as the size of a human egg) is at 10^-4 meters, which ‘just so happens’ to be directly in the exponential center, and/or geometric mean, of all possible sizes of our physical reality. This is very interesting for the limits to human vision (as well as the size of the human egg) could have, theoretically, been at very different positions rather than directly in the exponential middle and/or the geometric mean. Needless to say, this empirical finding directly challenges, if not directly refutes, the assumption of the Copernican Principle. Thus, besides the CMBR, Quantum Mechanics and General Relativity overturning of the Copernican principle, the centrality of life in the universe is also established by yet another fairly impressive angle in physics in which life is found to be at 'the geometric mean' or quote unquote 'the middle' of the universe. https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/so-then-maybe-we-are-privileged-observers/#comment-688855
bornagain77
May 2, 2020
May
05
May
2
02
2020
08:40 AM
8
08
40
AM
PDT
AaronS1978, yes, I know a couple atheists like that. It is not enough that they simply don’t believe, they have to ridicule those who do. But their are those on the theist side (BA77 comes to mind) who, for whatever reason, can’t tolerate people who don’t believe. We have a friend who is Christian. We have dinner with them at least once a month. Before dinner we hold hands and say grace. Even though I think it is a pointless gesture, I do it because it is important to them.Ed George
May 2, 2020
May
05
May
2
02
2020
08:25 AM
8
08
25
AM
PDT
@ Ed George “A specific type of atheist I like to call the anti-theist” I make a distinction. Richard Dawkins and Coyne would be anti-theists I have friends that are atheist stick and they don’t bother me but I’ve also had anti-theist friends who are no longer friends that almost daily attacked me and I would never bring it up with them Even my atheist friends would come to my defense So I do know there’s a big differenceAaronS1978
May 2, 2020
May
05
May
2
02
2020
08:13 AM
8
08
13
AM
PDT
AaronS1978, sorry, I forgot to mention the insult riddled comments of BA77 :) I very seldom criticize religion. But I certainly criticize the actions and behaviours that some people use their religion to defend.Ed George
May 2, 2020
May
05
May
2
02
2020
08:10 AM
8
08
10
AM
PDT
^^^^^^^^ says the troll who spends an inordinate amount of his time on a blog bashing Christianity and refusing to honestly engage the science. for ID.bornagain77
May 2, 2020
May
05
May
2
02
2020
07:35 AM
7
07
35
AM
PDT
AaronS1978
A similar question can been asked of atheists. (Assuming you didn’t ask what I think you asked) Why do they even care that religious people have a belief in God.
I would say that the vast majority of them don’t. But I would extend this to say that many religious people expend a lot of energy trying to defend their region when nobody is asking them to. The thousand word rants of BA77 and KF are prime examples. As are the insult riddled comments of ET and TruthFreedom (who seems to have disappeared). Religious people also seem to care what people of other religions believe. Much of the uproar over Sharia law comes from people of other religions.Ed George
May 2, 2020
May
05
May
2
02
2020
07:25 AM
7
07
25
AM
PDT
Is American Christianity really in decline? http://www.therepublic.com/2019/03/23/is_american_christianity_really_in_decline/ No, Non-Believers Are Not Increasing In America - APRIL 24, 2019 Excerpt: The stats are given as often and with as much confidence as they are wrong. The story goes that our nation is growing more secular with every passing day. Christianity is tanking, and atheists and generic non-believers mushrooming.,,, Stark gets more precise: “The entire change [toward none-ness] has taken place with the non-attending group.” “In other words,” he adds, “this change marks a decrease only in nominal affiliation, not an increase in irreligion.” Stark says the wealth of data he has studied, as well as that his peers have, “does not support claims for increased secularization, let alone a decrease in the number of Christians. It may not even reflect an increase in those who say they are ‘nones.’”,,, In fact, Professor Barry A. Kosmin, director of the Institute for the Study of Secularism in Society and Culture at Trinity College in Hartford, Connecticut, the man who coined the term “the nones,” expresses frustration that the larger press has not really gotten the story right on what belief group is actually seeing the largest size increase. He told me, “The rise of nondenominational Christianity is probably one of the strongest [religious growth] trends in the last two decades” in the United States. He added that the percentage gain among the “nons,” or nondenoms, is “many times larger” compared to those we have come to know as the nones. Read that again. The growth of nondenominational churches has been many times larger than that of the nones. Is it likely that one group that is growing—the nones—are gaining folks from a particular group that is growing at even greater pace? That answer would be no. Greg Smith, the long-time associate director of research at the Pew Research Center, adds heft to the conclusion that evangelicalism is actually growing. He confidently explains that while the more liberal mainline churches have been tanking dramatically, losing from 5 to 7.5 million members since 2007 (!), things are completely different for evangelical and non-denominational churches.... The Harvard/Indiana University researchers found the same thing, explaining “evangelicals are not on the decline” but “grew from 1972 when they were 18 percent of the population, to a steady level of about 28 percent” from the late 1980s to the present. This “percentage of the population” measure is very significant because it shows not only growth in terms of real numbers, but enough growth to keep up with or even exceed the rate of population growth. That’s not nothing. https://thefederalist.com/2019/04/24/no-non-believers-not-increasing-america/ Pew: Here’s How Badly Soviet Atheism Failed in Europe In 18 nations across Central and Eastern Europe, religion is now essential to national identity. (massive study based on face-to-face interviews with 25,000 adults in 18 countries} Jeremy Weber - 5/10/2017 Excerpt: “The comeback of religion in a region once dominated by atheist regimes is striking,” states Pew in its latest report. Today, only 14 percent of the region’s population identify as atheists, agnostics, or “nones.” By comparison, 57 percent identify as Orthodox, and another 18 percent as Catholics. http://www.christianitytoday.com/images/76841.png?h=717&w=380 http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2017/may/pew-atheism-failed-central-eastern-europe-orthodox-identity.html Russia’s Journey from Orthodoxy to Atheism, and Back Again By Gene Zubovich | October 16, 2018 Excerpt: In Russia, there is a religious revival happening. Orthodox Christianity is thriving after enduring a 70-year period of atheistic Soviet rule. In 1991, just after the collapse of the USSR, about two-thirds of Russians claimed no religious affiliation. Today, 71 percent of Russians identify as Orthodox. https://religionandpolitics.org/2018/10/16/russias-journey-from-orthodoxy-to-atheism-and-back-again/ Christians Now Outnumber Communists in China - 12/29/14 Excerpt: Though the Chinese Communist Party is the largest explicitly atheist organization in the world, with 85 million official members, it is now overshadowed by an estimated 100 million Christians in China.,,, “By my calculations China is destined to become the largest Christian country in the world very soon,” said Fenggang Yang, a professor of sociology at Purdue University http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2014/12/29/christians-now-outnumber-communists-in-china/ May 2019 - As to the claim that people are leaving the churches. (As a percentage of worldwide population, Christianity is, and has been, relentlessly growing whereas atheism has been in steady decline) https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/religious-nones-the-bigger-picture-shows-increasing-polarization/#comment-676591
bornagain77
May 2, 2020
May
05
May
2
02
2020
07:22 AM
7
07
22
AM
PDT
EG, The graphs are interesting. I'm surprised the percentage was so high in the first half of the 20th century.daveS
May 2, 2020
May
05
May
2
02
2020
07:20 AM
7
07
20
AM
PDT
Interesting trend in religious affiliation trends in the US. https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2020/05/01/this-chart-shows-how-quickly-americans-are-abandoning-organized-religion/Ed George
May 2, 2020
May
05
May
2
02
2020
07:11 AM
7
07
11
AM
PDT
1 2 3 4 5 6

Leave a Reply