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Welcome to the Brave New World of “Science”

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by Emily Morales

January 1, 2020

It’s a pretty scary thing when the world of respected science is turned on its head due to adherence and homage to the Idols of the Marketplace, as elucidated by 17th century statesman, Francis Bacon.

Francis Bacon, credited as the “father” of the scientific method, spoke in detail in The Great Instauration concerning four types of idols occupying the minds of humans, which serve to get in the way of ascertaining and advancing knowledge of the natural world: 1) Idols of the Tribe, 2) Idols of the Cave, 3) Idols of the Marketplace, and, 4) Idols of the Theater.

The Idols of the Marketplace were characterized as being the most menacing, as these creep into the minds of humans by way of terms and definitions for things that are not necessarily tangible or concrete, within the human “marketplace.” We might today find that these grab hold by way of the marketplace of the media. Consider that when the notion of transgenderism first appeared, how many people truly believed that a person could change their gender by the pronouncement of a new pronoun? Probably not many, initially, but today, since this Idol has made its way in the nooks and crannies of every shop and coffee house of the human cyber-marketplace, folks may feel the pressure to sacrifice real science in homage to this newfound idol (after all, it comes with it’s own lovely rainbow flag).

For more on Bacon’s discussion, consider the below article:
https://salvomag.com/post/bacons-enchanted-glass

We might even see where Darwinism has enjoyed similar adherence from the materialistic faithful, as a cursed idol of Bacon’s marketplace. Darwin, in his day was excoriated by Adam Sedgewick (his mentor of the past) for abandoning the tram-road of inductive thinking (Baconian methodology) in favor of embracing the methodologies associated with deductive reasoning carried out by the likes of Aristotle.

https://salvomag.com/post/darwin-may-have-gotten-it-wrong

Sedgewick was not alone in his criticism of Darwin. Louis Agassiz, at Harvard similarly rebuked Darwin for a thesis having no support in the known fossil record (refer to Stephen Meyer’s book Darwin’s Doubt). Note that neither of these men pushed back against Darwin because they were creationists – it was rather that Darwin drew some conclusions on the diversity of life and origin of species that were presumptuous to say the least. As it turns out, Bacon addressed the dangers of this manner of “logic” and “reasoning,” at length, warning us of its ability to stifle scientific inquiry two hundred and thirty years before Darwin’s published work.

Bacon today, would not be impressed with where the brave new world of science is heading. Rather than holding on to those facts that are the fruit of repeated experimentation or steadied observation, society is clinging to fallacies that are oftentimes the fruit of a past college professor’s wild imagination. We best take head of these wild imaginations, no matter how absurd they are – because they eventually show up in your child’s Kindergarten curriculum, and taught as fact!

Reference/ Notes:

Bacon, F. (2016). New Atlantis and the Great Instauration. John Wiley & Sons.

Meyer, S. C. (2014). Darwin’s doubt: Explosive Origin of Animal Life and the Case for Intelligent Design. New York.

Comments
ID on steroids? Multi-Phenotype Association Decomposition: Unraveling Complex Gene-Phenotype Relationships
Various patterns of multi-phenotype associations (MPAs) exist in the results of Genome Wide Association Studies (GWAS) involving different topologies of single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP)-phenotype associations. These can provide interesting information about the different impacts of a gene on closely related phenotypes or disparate phenotypes (pleiotropy).
Unraveling the complex genetic patterns underlying complex phenotypes has previously been challenging. While individual Genome-Wide Association Studies (GWAS) can provide insight into the genetic underpinnings of measured phenotypes, they typically involved associations of genetic variants with only one or a few phenotypes. The field of phenomics involves the collection of high-dimensional phenotype data of an organism, with the aim of capturing the overall, comprehensive phenotype (the “Phenome”) of the organism (Houle et al., 2010). Association studies involving many measured phenotypes, for example, Phenome-Wide Association Studies (PheWAS) present many advantages, in that they allow for the complex interconnected networks between phenotypes and their genetic underpinnings to be elucidated, and also allow for the detection of pleiotropy (Pendergrass et al., 2011, 2013, 2015; Hall et al., 2014).
Pleiotropy is the phenomenon in which a gene affects multiple phenotypes (Tyler et al., 2009). One can also have a locus-centric view of pleiotropy involving a single SNP affecting multiple phenotypes (Solovieff et al., 2013). While pleiotropy used to be considered an exception to the rules of Mendelian genetics, it has since been proposed to be a common, central property inherent to biological systems (Tyler et al., 2009).
   OLV
January 4, 2020
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@Ed George #91 '.... Again, children are at far greater risk of sexual interference from their priest than women are from transgendered using a bathroom. The data doesn’t lie.' Indeed, it doesn't, but you seem to be repeatedly retailing imaginary data cooked up by 'crusading' homosexuals'. Apparently, the reality is that the vast majority of perverted, sexual relationships of delinquent priests are with young men and adolescent males. I'll see if I can find the figures. https://www.catholicleague.org/sexual-abuse-in-social-context-clergy-and-other-professionals/Axel
January 4, 2020
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Vivid, it is worse than that. Emily's rights to person and privacy have been utterly discounted in the name of an ideology riding piggyback on promoting profound psychological dysfunctionality as though it were the new normal. In my case, it was suggested that someone going to a priest for spiritual services, would be "more at risk of abuse" than someone whose rights have already been violated. That also taints all priests as guilty until proved innocent to arbitrary standard; rather than respecting the right to innocent reputation. Further, the effective demand is to use power of office to impose the agenda items of today, with the door perpetually open for the next, even more bizarre demand. We already see, open calls to abolish policing and secure borders on excuse of real or imagined abuses. Sunday past, we saw that effective defence against intended mass murder in a house of worship was twisted into a demand to be defenceless sheep waiting for the slaughter, on grounds that (contrary to evidence right there in the video record) we are suspect of being utterly irresponsible dangers to ourselves. The obvious long term agenda is totalitarian and suppressive, subjugating every aspect and moment of life to the power and whims of big brother's bizarre nanny state without regard to rights and liberties, i.e. justice. This is thinly veiled misanthropy. Worse, we know long since that the unaccountable state's agents inevitably turn predatory. All of this should be setting off big, red warning flags, lights and alarms. KF PS: It is clearly time to repudiate the amoral, implicitly nihilistic legal positivism of our day: roughly, law is whatever those with relevant civil power impose [implying, might and/or manipulation make 'right'/ 'rights'/ 'truth'/ 'reason'/ 'justice' etc], and to return to the sound premise that we are inherently quasi-infinite value, responsible and rationally free rights-bearing, morally governed, enconscienced creatures ruled by built-in law of that morally governed nature. That natural law starts with inescapable, self evident first duties of reason, such as, to truth, to right reason, to prudence (so, warrant), to sound conscience, to fairness and justice. Where, justice implies the due balance of rights, freedoms and duties in community. Thus, we can and should re-found our framework of law on the same law of nature that led to the 1776 breakthrough in the US DoI and its context. I point here in context for a discussion.kairosfocus
January 4, 2020
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Emily “Perhaps Emily should examine her own feelings and assess whether they are based on real risk or just a personal prejudice.” Emily you getting this? The champion of women, the “mansplainer” is telling you that you have no right to feel uncomfortable and your the problem! After all Ed being a man and all knows what best and you need to accede to your betters,. So shut up and get back into the kitchen. Vividvividbleau
January 3, 2020
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EG, you have chosen to spin on with cultural marxist agenda talking points. I choose to repeat Plato's warning and will continue to do so,
Ath [in The Laws, Bk X 2,360 ya]. . . .[The avant garde philosophers and poets, c. 360 BC] say that fire and water, and earth and air [i.e the classical "material" elements of the cosmos], all exist by nature and chance, and none of them by art . . . [such that] all that is in the heaven, as well as animals and all plants, and all the seasons come from these elements, not by the action of mind, as they say, or of any God, or from art, but as I was saying, by nature and chance only [ --> that is, evolutionary materialism is ancient and would trace all things to blind chance and mechanical necessity] . . . . [Thus, they hold] that the principles of justice have no existence at all in nature, but that mankind are always disputing about them and altering them; and that the alterations which are made by art and by law have no basis in nature, but are of authority for the moment and at the time at which they are made.-
[ --> Relativism, too, is not new; complete with its radical amorality rooted in a worldview that has no foundational IS that can ground OUGHT, leading to an effectively arbitrary foundation only for morality, ethics and law: accident of personal preference, the ebbs and flows of power politics, accidents of history and and the shifting sands of manipulated community opinion driven by "winds and waves of doctrine and the cunning craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming . . . " cf a video on Plato's parable of the cave; from the perspective of pondering who set up the manipulative shadow-shows, why.]
These, my friends, are the sayings of wise men, poets and prose writers, which find a way into the minds of youth. They are told by them that the highest right is might,
[ --> Evolutionary materialism -- having no IS that can properly ground OUGHT -- leads to the promotion of amorality on which the only basis for "OUGHT" is seen to be might (and manipulation: might in "spin") . . . ]
and in this way the young fall into impieties, under the idea that the Gods are not such as the law bids them imagine; and hence arise factions [ --> Evolutionary materialism-motivated amorality "naturally" leads to continual contentions and power struggles influenced by that amorality at the hands of ruthless power hungry nihilistic agendas], these philosophers inviting them to lead a true life according to nature, that is,to live in real dominion over others [ --> such amoral and/or nihilistic factions, if they gain power, "naturally" tend towards ruthless abuse and arbitrariness . . . they have not learned the habits nor accepted the principles of mutual respect, justice, fairness and keeping the civil peace of justice, so they will want to deceive, manipulate and crush -- as the consistent history of radical revolutions over the past 250 years so plainly shows again and again], and not in legal subjection to them [--> nihilistic will to power not the spirit of justice and lawfulness].
I also notice, a slide down into discussion of the bizarre and perverted that is simply not needed for a serious discussion. Coupled to, unwarranted promotion of broad-brush suspicion and tainting. A further proof of the toxic agenda. I suggest to you that you would be well advised to stop the down-spiral at this point. While I am at it, you would be further well advised to address how you expect us to be governed by first duties of reason, to truth, to principles of right reason, to prudence, to sound conscience, to fairness and justice etc. That points to the need to bridge the IS-OUGHT gap, only feasible at root of reality. We are therefore looking for the inherently good and utterly wise, necessary being source of worlds. That answers decisively to all forms of moral and legal relativism and/or amorality. When it comes to any and all perversions of sex, the sound answer is still found in the words of the greatest teacher of humanity:
Matt 19:3 And Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?” 4 He replied, “Have you never read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and shall be joined inseparably to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, let no one separate.” 7 The Pharisees said to Him, “Why then did Moses command us to give her a certificate of divorce and send her away?” 8 He said to them, “Because your hearts were hard and stubborn Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. 9 I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery[a].” [AMP]
Apply, a fortiori reasoning, and the like or how much more so, to any and all perversions of that naturally evident creation order. KFkairosfocus
January 3, 2020
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KF
Nor, should our women and girls be made into targets by breaking down an important safe, private space in the public domain.
Again, children are at far greater risk of sexual interference from their priest than women are from transgendered using a bathroom. The data doesn’t lie. You are conjuring boogeymen where none exist. I sympathize with Emily feeling uncomfortable about it, as I still do about the idea of two men having sex. But I have long accepted that I don’t have a right to not feel uncomfortable, and that the problem is mine, not with the two men who want to be intimate with each other. Perhaps Emily should examine her own feelings and assess whether they are based on real risk or just a personal prejudice.Ed George
January 3, 2020
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PS: Plato's further warning, from The Republic:
It is not too hard to figure out that our civilisation is in deep trouble and is most likely headed for shipwreck. (And of course, that sort of concern is dismissed as “apocalyptic,” or neurotic pessimism that refuses to pause and smell the roses.) Plato’s Socrates spoke to this sort of situation, long since, in the ship of state parable in The Republic, Bk VI:
>>[Soc.] I perceive, I said, that you are vastly amused at having plunged me into such a hopeless discussion; but now hear the parable, and then you will be still more amused at the meagreness of my imagination: for the manner in which the best men are treated in their own States is so grievous that no single thing on earth is comparable to it; and therefore, if I am to plead their cause, I must have recourse to fiction, and put together a figure made up of many things, like the fabulous unions of goats and stags which are found in pictures. Imagine then a fleet or a ship in which there is a captain [–> often interpreted, ship’s owner] who is taller and stronger than any of the crew, but he is a little deaf and has a similar infirmity in sight, and his knowledge of navigation is not much better. [= The people own the community and in the mass are overwhelmingly strong, but are ill equipped on the whole to guide, guard and lead it] The sailors are quarrelling with one another about the steering – every one is of opinion that he has a right to steer [= selfish ambition to rule and dominate], though he has never learned the art of navigation and cannot tell who taught him or when he learned, and will further assert that it cannot be taught, and they are ready to cut in pieces any one who says the contrary. They throng about the captain, begging and praying him to commit the helm to them [–> kubernetes, steersman, from which both cybernetics and government come in English]; and if at any time they do not prevail, but others are preferred to them, they kill the others or throw them overboard [ = ruthless contest for domination of the community], and having first chained up the noble captain’s senses with drink or some narcotic drug [ = manipulation and befuddlement, cf. the parable of the cave], they mutiny and take possession of the ship and make free with the stores; thus, eating and drinking, they proceed on their voyage in such a manner as might be expected of them [–> Cf here Luke’s subtle case study in Ac 27]. Him who is their partisan and cleverly aids them in their plot for getting the ship out of the captain’s hands into their own whether by force or persuasion [–> Nihilistic will to power on the premise of might and manipulation making ‘right’ ‘truth’ ‘justice’ ‘rights’ etc], they compliment with the name of sailor, pilot, able seaman, and abuse the other sort of man, whom they call a good-for-nothing; but that the true pilot must pay attention to the year and seasons and sky and stars and winds, and whatever else belongs to his art, if he intends to be really qualified for the command of a ship, and that he must and will be the steerer, whether other people like or not-the possibility of this union of authority with the steerer’s art has never seriously entered into their thoughts or been made part of their calling. Now in vessels which are in a state of mutiny and by sailors who are mutineers, how will the true pilot be regarded? Will he not be called by them a prater, a star-gazer, a good-for-nothing? [Ad.] Of course, said Adeimantus. [Soc.] Then you will hardly need, I said, to hear the interpretation of the figure, which describes the true philosopher in his relation to the State[ --> here we see Plato's philosoppher-king emerging]; for you understand already. [Ad.] Certainly. [Soc.] Then suppose you now take this parable to the gentleman who is surprised at finding that philosophers have no honour in their cities; explain it to him and try to convince him that their having honour would be far more extraordinary. [Ad.] I will. [Soc.] Say to him, that, in deeming the best votaries of philosophy to be useless to the rest of the world, he is right; but also tell him to attribute their uselessness to the fault of those who will not use them, and not to themselves. The pilot should not humbly beg the sailors to be commanded by him –that is not the order of nature; neither are ‘the wise to go to the doors of the rich’ –the ingenious author of this saying told a lie –but the truth is, that, when a man is ill, whether he be rich or poor, to the physician he must go, and he who wants to be governed, to him who is able to govern. The ruler who is good for anything ought not to beg his subjects to be ruled by him [ --> down this road lies the modern solution: a sound, well informed people will seek sound leaders, who will not need to manipulate or bribe or worse, and such a ruler will in turn be checked by the soundness of the people, cf. US DoI, 1776]; although the present governors of mankind are of a different stamp; they may be justly compared to the mutinous sailors, and the true helmsmen to those who are called by them good-for-nothings and star-gazers. [Ad.] Precisely so, he said. [Soc] For these reasons, and among men like these, philosophy, the noblest pursuit of all, is not likely to be much esteemed by those of the opposite faction; not that the greatest and most lasting injury is done to her by her opponents, but by her own professing followers, the same of whom you suppose the accuser to say, that the greater number of them are arrant rogues, and the best are useless; in which opinion I agreed [--> even among the students of the sound state (here, political philosophy and likely history etc.), many are of unsound motivation and intent, so mere education is not enough, character transformation is critical]. [Ad.] Yes. [Soc.] And the reason why the good are useless has now been explained? [Ad.] True. [Soc.] Then shall we proceed to show that the corruption of the majority is also unavoidable, and that this is not to be laid to the charge of philosophy any more than the other? [Ad.] By all means. [Soc.] And let us ask and answer in turn, first going back to the description of the gentle and noble nature.[ -- > note the character issue] Truth, as you will remember, was his leader, whom he followed always and in all things [ --> The spirit of truth as a marker]; failing in this, he was an impostor, and had no part or lot in true philosophy [--> the spirit of truth is a marker, for good or ill] . . . >>
(There is more than an echo of this in Acts 27, a real world case study. [Luke, a physician, was an educated Greek with a taste for subtle references.] This blog post, on soundness in policy, will also help)
There is no end to radical follies once domineering power is gained, save the sort of shipwreck that occurred literally in the Ac 27 case and which extends metaphorically to the sort of voyage Plato discussed. For my part, I originally come from a country where ideological-economic shipwreck happened, in the teeth of sound and timely counsel; which was met with terrible threats and actual, murderous violence. Part of that collapse was a low grade civil war.kairosfocus
January 3, 2020
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F/N: Ever so much of the bizarre nonsense we are being dragged through as a civilisation stems from what Plato warned against 2360 years ago in The Laws, Bk X. I duly note, and will continue to note in reply to further agenda-pushing:
Ath [in The Laws, Bk X 2,360 ya]. . . .[The avant garde philosophers and poets, c. 360 BC] say that fire and water, and earth and air [i.e the classical "material" elements of the cosmos], all exist by nature and chance, and none of them by art . . . [such that] all that is in the heaven, as well as animals and all plants, and all the seasons come from these elements, not by the action of mind, as they say, or of any God, or from art, but as I was saying, by nature and chance only [ --> that is, evolutionary materialism is ancient and would trace all things to blind chance and mechanical necessity] . . . . [Thus, they hold] that the principles of justice have no existence at all in nature, but that mankind are always disputing about them and altering them; and that the alterations which are made by art and by law have no basis in nature, but are of authority for the moment and at the time at which they are made.-
[ --> Relativism, too, is not new; complete with its radical amorality rooted in a worldview that has no foundational IS that can ground OUGHT, leading to an effectively arbitrary foundation only for morality, ethics and law: accident of personal preference, the ebbs and flows of power politics, accidents of history and and the shifting sands of manipulated community opinion driven by "winds and waves of doctrine and the cunning craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming . . . " cf a video on Plato's parable of the cave; from the perspective of pondering who set up the manipulative shadow-shows, why.]
These, my friends, are the sayings of wise men, poets and prose writers, which find a way into the minds of youth. They are told by them that the highest right is might,
[ --> Evolutionary materialism -- having no IS that can properly ground OUGHT -- leads to the promotion of amorality on which the only basis for "OUGHT" is seen to be might (and manipulation: might in "spin") . . . ]
and in this way the young fall into impieties, under the idea that the Gods are not such as the law bids them imagine; and hence arise factions [ --> Evolutionary materialism-motivated amorality "naturally" leads to continual contentions and power struggles influenced by that amorality at the hands of ruthless power hungry nihilistic agendas], these philosophers inviting them to lead a true life according to nature, that is,to live in real dominion over others [ --> such amoral and/or nihilistic factions, if they gain power, "naturally" tend towards ruthless abuse and arbitrariness . . . they have not learned the habits nor accepted the principles of mutual respect, justice, fairness and keeping the civil peace of justice, so they will want to deceive, manipulate and crush -- as the consistent history of radical revolutions over the past 250 years so plainly shows again and again], and not in legal subjection to them [--> nihilistic will to power not the spirit of justice and lawfulness].
We were warned over 2,000 years ago. If we refuse to heed such hard-bought lessons of history tied to the collapse of the Athenian experiment of Democracy, the consequences are our fault stemming from our folly. KFkairosfocus
January 3, 2020
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EG, enough has been said to show the issues you are evading and implications of agendas being pushed. I will simply note at this point, that a profound and sadly bizarre psychological disturbance of identity is not a proper identity. It calls for responsible care and counselling, rather than being used as yet another battering ram to destroy our civilisation starting with personal identity; not to mention, inviting vulnerable boys and girls to undertake dangerous chemical treatments and/or undergoing needless surgical mutilation. Nor, should our women and girls be made into targets by breaking down an important safe, private space in the public domain. I have already pointed out a key reality, and need not further elaborate on dangers stemming from the principle that the law is a teacher for good or ill. Your insistence on pushing a dangerous agenda, which is also obviously connected to grooming, is duly noted and duly connected to the inherent amorality and folly of atheism and its penumbra of influence in a civilisation that has lost its moral and intellectual compasses. A hundred years ago when Bryan et al warned along such lines, it was ignored or dismissed; now, we see it in action. KF PS, to ET. I am very aware of gross, willful violation of privacy, as well as breaking down of the balance of safety. We need not elaborate on how this latest push-point of the cultural marxist agenda has also been used to undermine women's sports.kairosfocus
January 3, 2020
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john a designer:
Frankly I think Ed’s sole purpose for being here is to be disruptive and waste everyone’s time.
Thank you for your astute observation. On other forums, "Ed" has even admitted it. "Ed" is only here to smear.ET
January 3, 2020
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Vivid, so very sad that people feel their jobs are in jeopardy if they express an opinion on transgenderism that does not follow the party line. Now to EG point on the lack of assaults on women from men using their bathrooms... why should we need data on assaults to ascertain the degree to which women are traumatized by the presence of men using their bathrooms and dressing spaces? If I in a women's locker room and saw a man there with his junk hanging out, I'd be pretty annoyed (not traumatized, necessarily), and would complain to the institution that permitted this. I can naturally understand how men (who are wildly different from women) would not mind women invading their spaces with their junk hanging out. The trauma felt by women goes beyond just physical assaults. Further, I would not be keen on my sixteen year old daughter sharing a gym locker room with a sixteen year old man - girls don't need to look at that stuff at that tender age, in the context of a shower room.Emily Morales
January 3, 2020
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EG, that you try to dismiss so serious a matter as hyperbole shows how disconnected from reality you are on the subject. FYI, basic facts: women are normally smaller, have less reach and significantly less upper body strength than men, with a higher fat:muscle ratio.
I am not ignoring anything. Transgendered have been using women’s bathrooms for decades. And you could count the number of incidents on one hand. All people are asking is to allow them to do this without risking a criminal charge. As I mentioned, the proportion of priests molesting little boys is orders of magnitude higher than that of women being accosted by transgendered using the woman’s bathroom.Ed George
January 3, 2020
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correction to my comment @ 83. The last sentence of my first paragraph should read: "For example, you can’t prove anything if you start with a self-refuting premise." KF,
EG, that you try to dismiss so serious a matter as hyperbole shows how disconnected from reality you are on the subject.
Why are you trying to reason with Ed, KF? It’s his responsibility to put forth a reasonable argument first. Ed stating his belief or opinion then doubling down on that belief or opinion proves nothing. Frankly I think Ed’s sole purpose for being here is to be disruptive and waste everyone’s time.john_a_designer
January 3, 2020
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The use of the bathroom of choice was never just about potential physical abuse. Voyeurism is a real thing. And it does leave behind victims. However, the easy solution would be to have multiple single-person bathrooms in place of the two gendered multi-person bathrooms.ET
January 3, 2020
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Emily,
So true, John_a_designer, so true. I do have to admit, however, I love arguing and debating with people, and it appears you do as well! At least you are very good at it!
Actually, I don’t enjoy getting sucked into baseless arguments that lead nowhere. There is big a difference between making logically valid arguments and being argumentative. Some of our regular interlocutors have a “talent” for just being argumentative which only has the purpose of derailing, disrupting or subverting the discussion. For example, you prove anything if you start with a self-refuting premise. Unfortunately, too many people on the ID side get sucked into that kind of nonsense. As I have said here several times before:
I have my own personal standard when it comes to interacting with our regular interlocutors. I usually only engage under two conditions: First, our interlocutor must be willing to ask and answer honest questions. Second, they need make a logically valid argument, which can be stated using succinct fact based premises. Being argumentative is not the same as making a valid argument. Neither is pretension and posturing, obstruction or obfuscation. Reasonable people know how to make reasonable arguments.
SA @ #75, Technically you are right. UD is not a Christian site. My bad. As far as who Ed is or what he believes, I don’t care. He strikes me as someone who is very disingenuous… not the type of person I’m interested in engaging with.john_a_designer
January 3, 2020
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PS: You are ignoring the significance of the law being a teacher. The shift in burden of safety being contemplated and pushed has serious potential consequences. And, why is it that, so often when you intervene in a thread, you begin to drag it down into all sorts of sexually linked pathologies? Please, enough is enough.kairosfocus
January 3, 2020
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EG, that you try to dismiss so serious a matter as hyperbole shows how disconnected from reality you are on the subject. FYI, basic facts: women are normally smaller, have less reach and significantly less upper body strength than men, with a higher fat:muscle ratio. Skeletally, bones esp. the skull, are significantly more gracile, thus more easily fractured; and more, learn facts about e.g. real infantry tests and strength issues. This is a context in which rape is a recognised major crime against the person that mainly targets women and girls. We can go on and on but this is a family blog and you are now playing the red herring dragged away to strawman caricature soaked in ad homs then set alight to cloud, confuse, poison and polarise the issues game. The proper focus for the thread, is that we see science taken captive to ideology. For a relevant case in point, I leave this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osDFJLd5SCs&feature=youtu.be I note, mere saying 'ent mek it so. KFkairosfocus
January 3, 2020
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KF
EG, the problem is central to civilisation, not just to the topic in view. Women are very aware that they are potential prey targets of the most dangerous predator in the history of life on Earth, the human male.
Your hyperbole is amusing, but it has no basis in fact. The number of priests abusing young boys is orders of magnitude greater than the number of transexuals abusing women in the bathroom. Should we ban priests? Should we prevent them from talking to children? And you are ignoring the fact that transgendered have been using women’s bathrooms for decades.Ed George
January 3, 2020
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EG, the problem is central to civilisation, not just to the topic in view. Women are very aware that they are potential prey targets of the most dangerous predator in the history of life on Earth, the human male. That shapes family structures, child nurture, creation of a public space in which women can freely move about (or, not), and much more. It is clear that many would be activists and enablers don't understand what they would trifle with, and are unwilling to hear another side to the story. In the immediate context of discussion, women are vulnerable in the context being discussed and it is reasonable and responsible that they have a protected, safe and private space. The alternative, is implicit destruction of the public space, through systematically rendering it dangerous for women. Those are the matches being played with, whether or not you or those you wish to quote are willing to admit it. KF PS: And the attempted turnabout accusation, fails. Fails as destructive agit prop and fails as refusing to address a serious psychological breakdown of personal identity leading to destructive reality disconnect as what it is. But then, this is simply yet another slide down the slope heading over the cliff.kairosfocus
January 3, 2020
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KF
Obvious, and highly significant given that it is mostly women and girls who are targetted by male sexual predators.
That is irrelevant to the issue of allowing transgendered to use the bathroom of their identification.
Discussions about school policy involving transgender students often focus on hypothetical concerns that respecting students’ gender identity, and allowing them to use facilities in accordance with their gender identity, will violate the privacy or “comfort” of other students, and lead to the abolition of gender-segregated facilities such as restrooms and locker rooms altogether. Other commonly voiced concerns include the idea that transgender students might just be “confused,” likely to change their minds about their gender identity, or falsely claiming to be transgender for some nefarious purpose. We have addressed–and in some cases personally grappled with–many of the same concerns. But in our experience, none of those concerns have materialized in the form of actual problems in our schools. We have not experienced problems with policies allowing transgender students to access bathrooms or locker rooms in accordance with their gender identity. Nor have we experienced transgender students or any other students attempting to be dishonest or break the rules. To the contrary, our transgender students simply want to be safe while using school facilities.
Ed George
January 3, 2020
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. Ed at #58, You don't refuse to engage me because I "insult you". Everyone following this blog over the past months knows that this claim is little more than an opportunistic deception. The real reason you refuse to engage me is because I can demonstrate through uncontroversial science and history that life requires a multi-referent symbol system, a language structure, and semantic closure in order to exist - and you simply don't want to deal with empirical observations. And frankly, the only way you could be insulted by me is because I've publically demonstrated the fact that you absolutely refuse to engage in the predictions, documented results, and recorded history that contradicts your position and supports ID; also that you came here (quite) openly making untruthful statements about who you are; and finally, that following your own repeated reasoning, a man under certain conditions can literally decide for himself if it is okay to rape a woman, and that under your worldview, it would indeed be okay. If things like blind adherence, carrying out nefarious deceptions, and coddling inhumanity are the types of things that insult you, then I suggest you have insulted yourself.Upright BiPed
January 3, 2020
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JAD
If atheism is the only rational alternative why does one need to show up on a Christian site to validate it?
It's a good question and I understand what you're getting at. But a couple of things also: EG says he is an agnostic, not atheist. And as for UD, I think it is a Christian site, sort of? But the DI is not really, or maybe it is. Klinghoffer is Jewish. Berlinski is an atheistic-Jew. By habit or just convention we tend to equate ID to Christian thought, but ID is religion-neutral and the findings of ID are scientific, so therefore are compatible with any religion or even atheism. ID is compatible with leftist politics also, although it's rare to find that combination in practice. Edit: another word on EG, I think there's some controversy about his identity, so there's another issue to consider.Silver Asiatic
January 3, 2020
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We are here seeing the progress of a totalitarian ideology that by being part of a cultural marxist alliance, is part of the attempt to destabilise and radically reshape our civilisation, with particular reference to extreme hostility to the Christian faith and any linked ethical and intellectual deposit. Those involved in the stampede don't see that it heads over the edge of a cliff. Indeed, I have often seen them mock such warnings here at UD. What they say at their base sites in the penumbra of attack sites targetting UD, is far more explicitly extreme and vicious than anything they do here.kairosfocus
January 3, 2020
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Emily “but because the general population is too terrified to comment on it! Everyone saw what happened to JK Rowling (a past advocate for homosexual marriage) for merely supporting Maya Forrester’s comments concerning the immutability of gender. No one wants the onslaught of insults and profanity that results from speaking out against this community…. “ How about Martina Navratilova of all people being labeled a transphobe for stating the obvious about the effects on women’s sports, she was forced to recant. I can speak to first hand experience that people are literally threatened with their jobs if they do not actively assent to this transgender nonsense , that a male can suddenly override biology by thinking they are a female , or a female thinking that they are a male. Vividvividbleau
January 3, 2020
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So true, John_a_designer, so true. I do have to admit, however, I love arguing and debating with people, and it appears you do as well! At least you are very good at it! Post-modernism really is the bane of our century, isn't it?Emily Morales
January 3, 2020
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Emily, The problem we are facing today is that those pushing a social justice or secular-progressive agenda: transgenderism, same sex marriage, identity politics and wokeness etc. start with morally subjectivist or morally relativist assumptions. Some years ago, on another website, I had this exchange with an interlocutor who responded to a question in an OP similar to what we’re discussing here. He wrote:
Here’s an answer to your question… There is nothing “essentially true” about marriage. Marriage is what we agree it is (or what most of us agree it is.) There is no “essential truth” about anything.
I replied: It is self-refuting to say there is ”no ‘essential truth’ about anything.” Didn’t you notice that you’re making an essential [indeed universal] truth claim about truth. Furthermore it takes the legs out from under every argument you have been making. Why should I even consider an argument that’s not true? This is why I have given up trying to argue with moral subjectivists. They don’t understand the irrationality of their argument. Logic 101 says you can’t prove anything deductively unless you begin with a factually true or self-evidently true premise. Again, the premise there is “no ‘essential truth’ about anything,” is self-refuting, which is basically the argument the subjectivist is making. All the subjectivist has are moral opinions he believes are true for him. However, no-one else is obligated to accept his or her moral opinions. The subjectivist is then left with a “morality” that has no moral obligation. What value is such a moral system? The answer is obvious: zero value.john_a_designer
January 3, 2020
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John_a_Designer, you make some excellent points concerning the marketplace. In the next few days I'll be posting an article to Salvo concerning this marketplace in particular; false ideas and notions do not merely spread like wildfire on dry grass, but wildfire on dry grass doused with gasoline! We are taking forays into new territory (such as invasive medical procedures on minors, prosecution of Christian-owned businesses, and curriculum overhauls) without considering whether these notions have any merit! The transgender movement has such extraordinary power, NOT because the general population is in agreement with it in principle, but because the general population is too terrified to comment on it! Everyone saw what happened to JK Rowling (a past advocate for homosexual marriage) for merely supporting Maya Forrester's comments concerning the immutability of gender. No one wants the onslaught of insults and profanity that results from speaking out against this community.... wait, not speaking out, but questioning the community's doctrines. Now if the rabid response of this community to anyone questioning it does not remind anyone of the zealots who defend radicalized religious beliefs, then you have to be blind.Emily Morales
January 3, 2020
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Unfortunately, dishonesty and irrationality has overtaken the marketplace of ideas in the culture at large, not just in the U.S. but most of the civilized world. Ideally the market place of ideas should be based on facts, honesty and reason. Sadly, like many other discussions here at UD the discussion on this thread has been derailed by an interlocutor who, as far as I can see, is not motivated by any kind of good will. For example, I am still trying to figure out (after a full year) where Ed George is really coming from and why he is here. (Not that I can’t guess.) Is he motivated by (1) arrogance, anger and dishonesty, or (2) insecurity, or (3) irrationality? Or something else? If it’s #1 I don’t see much point in engaging him any further. If it’s #2 we need to challenge him. If atheism is the only rational alternative why does one need to show up on a Christian site to validate it? As far as #3, judging so far from what he has written that speaks for itself. (I don’t mean that as a compliment.) To be fair I know evangelical Christians who engage same kind of fallacious reasoning. For example, there are the so-called KJV only-ists who believe that only the KJV version of the Bible is divinely inspired. They are just as stubborn about admitting the errors in their reasoning. Basically their thinking goes: I believe x therefore x must be true. Many people label that kind of reasoning as fundamentalist. Ironically, it appears to me that that same kind of thinking is reflected among many of those who espouse a non-theistic or non-religious world view. Of course, Ed’s motives could it could be a combination of all three of the things I’ve listed above but let’s not get bogged down there. All I’m really asking is what are Ed George’s motives for being here? Maybe he can tell us. After all, he should know, shouldn’t he? Why wouldn’t he? If someone can’t be honest and transparent about their motives I don’t see how anyone can trust them or why they are here, especially when all they do is obstruct and obfuscate, and waste everyone’s time including their own.john_a_designer
January 3, 2020
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What materialistic ideologues? Oh, try here for one Monod in a 1971 interview on his Chance and Necessity:
[T]he scientific attitude implies what I call the postulate of objectivity—that is to say, the fundamental postulate that there is no plan, that there is no intention in the universe. Now, this is basically incompatible with virtually all the religious or metaphysical systems whatever, all of which try to show that there is some sort of harmony between man and the universe and that man is a product—predictable if not indispensable—of the evolution of the universe.— Jacques Monod [Quoted in John C. Hess, 'French Nobel Biologist Says World Based On Chance', New York Times (15 Mar 1971), p. 6. Cited in Herbert Marcuse, Counter-Revolution and Revolt (1972), p. 66.]
Notice, the telling redefinition of objectivity. KFkairosfocus
January 3, 2020
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Back on focus, defining science more objectively:
science: a branch of knowledge conducted on objective principles involving the systematized observation of and experiment with phenomena, esp. concerned with the material and functions of the physical universe. [Concise Oxford Dictionary, 1990 -- and yes, they used the "z" Virginia!] scientific method: principles and procedures for the systematic pursuit of knowledge [”the body of truth, information and principles acquired by mankind”] involving the recognition and formulation of a problem, the collection of data through observation and experiment, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses. [Webster's 7th Collegiate Dictionary, 1965]
Thus, my summary on what science is at its best:
science, at its best, is the unfettered — but ethically and intellectually responsible — progressive, observational evidence-led pursuit of the truth about our world (i.e. an accurate and reliable description and explanation of it), based on: a: collecting, recording, indexing, collating and reporting accurate, reliable (and where feasible, repeatable) empirical -- real-world, on the ground -- observations and measurements, b: inference to best current -- thus, always provisional -- abductive explanation of the observed facts, c: thus producing hypotheses, laws, theories and models, using logical-mathematical analysis, intuition and creative, rational imagination [including Einstein's favourite gedankenexperiment, i.e thought experiments], d: continual empirical testing through further experiments, observations and measurement; and, e: uncensored but mutually respectful discussion on the merits of fact, alternative assumptions and logic among the informed. (And, especially in wide-ranging areas that cut across traditional dividing lines between fields of study, or on controversial subjects, "the informed" is not to be confused with the eminent members of the guild of scholars and their publicists or popularisers who dominate a particular field at any given time.) As a result, science enables us to ever more effectively (albeit provisionally) describe, explain, understand, predict and influence or control objects, phenomena and processes in our world.
That is what is being tossed away without recognising the implications of politicising science, by the materialist ideologues. KFkairosfocus
January 3, 2020
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