Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

When Ignorance and Arrogance Collide

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The Pandasthumb blog is instructive for understanding how our most virulent opponents think. Informed, coherent thought is not always in evidence there. Perhaps the most extreme counterexample I’ve encountered recently is the following set of remarks by someone named Ed Darrell. I leave it to commenters on this blog to have fun with it:

First, who says evolution IS losing the PR battle? Show me. The figures creep up slowly, but there are more people who understand smidgen about evolution at every contretemps. Yes, it would be good if the consciousness rose faster. But that’s not losing.

But second, to the extent that we could do it better, we need to have a few consistent messages and stick to them. That’s difficult to do. Even among textbooks, most of them don’t bother to list the five evolution facts (as Mayr tallies them) that make the foundation of Darwin’s insights plausible and nearly irrefutable. Evolution theory is left to the individual scientist to explain, and to the individual reader/citizen to figure out. Contrast this with Newton’s “Laws of Motion,” or the “Laws of Thermodynamics.”

I recommend we pass out talking points with the five facts of evolution.

Then we need to concentrate on a few easily understood ideas. For example, to rebut “teach the controversy,” we should say “teach the facts first.” Who can argue with the need to have the facts first? Of course, we’ll need to specify what those facts are that need to be taught, but we can do it.

We also need to bring the issue home to people so they understand it. What do I mean?

In Texas, our economy depends on evolution, and intelligent design offers only ways to muck up the economy. What do I mean? One, I mean that the eradication of the cotton boll weevil is essential to our dwindling, but still significant, cotton industry. That eradication process, led the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is based on poisoning boll weevils to eradicate them from specific regions, in doses and ways carefully calculated to avoid forcing the bugs to mutate resistance — it takes a solid understanding of evolution to make the program work.

For a second example, Texas now loses $1.5 billion a year in crop and livestock destruction from the introduced pest, the Argentine fire ant. This pest has evolved several new defenses due to ill-thought-out eradication attempts. Now our only hope of recouping that significant loss is to understand the evolution of the beast, to delay evolved resistance to new eradication attempts. This pest now affects California, Arizona, New Mexico, and much of the southeast. National losses are probably in the $10 billion range. It would be not just folly, but sheer stupidity to abandon our efforts to control this insect — and ALL of those efforts depend on a thorough understanding of evolution theory. Is it wrong? Let ID find a better way to fight this beast that kills farm animals, we’ll let ID have a spot in the high school textbooks. But unless it can do that, quickly, ID just gets in the way and continues the losses.

Third, the Rio Grande Valley’s economy depends a lot on the success of grapefruit as a crop. Need I remind you that grapefruit is a news species that didn’t exist 125 years ago? But for evolution, this crop would not exist at all. Moreover, the current favorite is a variant of red grapefruit. Red grapefruit are the result of sport mutation in the late 1940s — exactly the sort of mutation that intelligent design advocates claim is impossible. In short, the existence of the crop at all is a refutation of intelligent design. According to ID, all Texans are crazy, especially Texas farmers. But the current most popular variety, Rio Reds, were bred by scientists at Texas A&M, using evolution theory, to be resistant to the occasional hard freezes that strike the Rio Grande Valley. So, every aspect of grapefruit agriculture denies the claims of intelligent design, and is dependent on application of the evolution theory intelligent design advocates (and the Dover school board) claim are “just theory.”

Fourth, Texas has a very active medical research community. The disease researchers and healers at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas who work on heart disease, diabetes and other diseases, and the researchers and healers at Houston’s M. D. Anderson Cancer Center, among others, all use evolution theory to fight disease.

We’re talking billions of dollars at stake. These economic arguments need to be made more forcefully, more often, more clearly, and more locally. Kansas is dependent on wheat, for example — I have a list of publications on how modern wheat farming is dependent on evolution, too. Minnesota has its own crops. California has grapes, artichokes and dairy. Every state has an agricultural, livestock and medical stake in evolution. Every state is, therefore, threatened by intelligent design.

When was the last time you saw someone argue that?

http://www.pandasthumb.org/archives/2005/08/one_reason_evol.html#c42256

Comments
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isnt evolutionary thinking to blame for bringing the study of "junk DNA" to a screeching halt until recently? Why study something that is obviously a useless product of evolution, right? Wrong. We're learning that this so-called junk serves a real purpose. Today, all you hear is how ID will stifle scientific thinking. Seems the Darwinists are doing a pretty good job of that by themselves.Lurker
August 12, 2005
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My most humourous complain against ID would be that if humans annihilate themselves with nuclear, or other, weapons then that too was part of the design, in which case God is less an engineer and more a beligerent child. But seriously, Srjdan is correct you could do that and it is in fact the only way to hold ID as a respectable theory, but that does not help you prove it!Thistleking
August 12, 2005
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The problem is, when your ad hoc theory explains everything you end up thinking that everything depends upon your theory. Since evolution equals 'change over time' you have to be a Darwinists to understand anything that might change. I guess agriculture was still-born until Darwin got home from the Beagle.Charlie
August 12, 2005
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His examples are ridiculous. He does not understand the debate and refers to simple micro examples. This post is almost too confused to parse out into errors, but I'll give it a shot. I won't go into his authoritarian suggested toward public mind control. Most prominent--Mayr actually refers to Ed Darrell's five facts as Darwin's five theories: http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/data/305/5680/46/DC1/1. If they are just theories, then shouldn't we be open to considering other theories as well--thus, teach the controversy? PaV, you're right about mutation. Ed confuses it again in his second example and goes on to challenge intelligent design to come up with an answer quickly. How's this--intelligent agents acting on designed corrective plans based on knowledge of mutation? Regarding grapefruits, is Ed serious? Accoring to Wikipedia (I know--not the best, but arguably reliable within 80-90 percent), the grapefruit was discovered in the 1750s--at least 240 years ago. And then, he confuses cross-pollination with evolution. Again, he just ignores intelligent agency--this time scientists at Texas A&M who bred Rio Reds. It seems as though Ed keeps invoking the concept of evolution as though it were a type of catch-all savior for him. Question for Ed--how does one use evolution theory to fight disease? "When was the last time you saw someone argue that?" Answer--I never have, because it cannot be argued.MWC
August 12, 2005
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I think we need to be a bit merciful with this character here. His English is a bit distorted, but from what I could gather from his message, he is concerned that Intelligent Design advocates are ignorant and disbelieving of a very real thing that happens all the time! This would paint a very strange picture in the mind of anyone, to think such a thing about ID. But obviously, this man has not thought very many things through and does not have even the slightest understanding about what this debate is about. Obviously, intelligent design has no problem whatsoever with Natural Selection in the present, Speciation and Variation. These are all sortings of existing information which can be observed, tested and repeated in the present, unlike the theory of evolution postulates. As we all should know, the theory of evolution claims that this mechanism that we see in action today is also the same mechanism that generated all of the information that is being sorted in the first place. This is where ID advocates, Creationists and others part company with Evolutionists. We do not see natural selection, or this "sorting of existing information" as being a possible generator of information in the first place, much less capable of overcoming that impossible leap from non-living matter to a living cell. This does not mean that we do not believe in selective breeding, mutations, or variation leading to speciation and adaptation. These are all very real things, but this principle alone does not turn particles into people, or mice into men or anything else of the sort. On another note, I've always found it incredibly amusing to consider that the evoultionist actually has to believe that the eye is an accidental mutation and that the heart is an accidental mutation and that our nervous system was a fluke, an accidental mutation, the same for ever arm, leg, finger and toe, the brain and conciousness itself: all accidental mutations. OOPS!zonetripper
August 12, 2005
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"That eradication process, led the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is based on poisoning boll weevils to eradicate them from specific regions, in doses and ways carefully calculated to avoid forcing the bugs to mutate resistance — it takes a solid understanding of evolution to make the program work." Maybe I'm wrong, but are we talking about mutation here or evolution? In other words, we "see" mutation (the actually observed), and the evolutionists "infer" evolution from that. Now if we "know" that bugs "mutate", that's all we need to know to eradicate the bug's defenses, and the "inference" (not the "design inference", the "evolution inference") that this constitutes evolution is neither here nor there. And all of what I'm saying seems to be contained in the expression "the bug's defenses." If "mutation" is part of a bug's defense mechanism, then why would you call that "evolution"? It seems the bug is trying to continue his life as a bug----and is not trying to become a singing butterfly!PaV
August 12, 2005
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"According to ID, all Texans are crazy." I agree. ID proponents have been saying this for years.joncrowell
August 12, 2005
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We have eddarrel on our site too, bravely sallying forth against us with his patriotic American flag icon by his side. We keep him around for laughs.Deuce
August 12, 2005
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Eureka! I just realised what the problem is. Lets just incorporate Intelligent Design in the deffinition of evolution and than we can claim evolution is a fact.Srdjan
August 11, 2005
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Just for the sake of clarity, please note that Charliecrs and Charlie are not the same person.Charlie
August 11, 2005
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"I recommend we pass out talking points with the five facts of evolution. " - still waiting for the " 5 " FACTS you mentioned, where is it ?. im sure you know it but [somehow][oops] forgot to mention it because the facts mysteriously de-volved from your highly evolved brain - im right ? right ? "we’ll need to specify what those facts are that need to be taught, but we can do it." - YEAH still waiting for these facts... "Even among textbooks, most of them don’t bother to list the five evolution facts " - So even most of the people who write the books don't even know the "FACTS", let alone 5 to mention huh ? that is soooo sad. " Evolution theory is left to the individual scientist to explain, and to the individual reader/citizen to figure out. Contrast this with Newton’s “Laws of Motion,” or the “Laws of Thermodynamics.” " now this guys is comparing fact & fiction - FACTS FIRST 1) - Newtons laws & the laws of thermodynamics can be observed and or tested. FICTION 2) - Evolution - leaves us with ???? that can be tested by only " Sike, Sike and SUPER SIKE " oh and of course it can be tested by the next great evolutionary genius or should i say novelist? [sike, sike]? YEAP so true, gosh im seeing Richard Dawkins imaginary pet dog that somehow with the help of natural selection ; jumped out of his mind and became the new and great spokesman for the great institute. [ ah yes, Science ] load of c--p you say ?. well im sure if you give it or given a chance [ it could happen right ] and millions of years and random mutation [in this case brain ] combined with the natural selection and in a million years or so it would happen. then i would be begging for your forgiveness for i didn't realize that the "all mighty Darwin " had said so and i did not belive. oh man and finally... " I have a list of publications on how modern wheat farming is dependent on evolution, too. Minnesota has its own crops. California has grapes, artichokes and dairy. Every state has an agricultural, livestock and medical stake in evolution. Every state is, therefore, threatened by intelligent design." know what, i have a couple pimples of my face - so what ? maybe the pimples know that i clean my face and take a bath so the have become resistant ?. so what ? - where is the evo - in the evolution ? i mean really, unless the little pimple became or came with little green or gray men and started talking to me i wouldn't call it a proof of anything. maybe, just maybe an intelligent designer could cure it one day -sighs- Charlie p.s - know what else ?... i think im probably guilty of quote mining ? [oh man, how lame is that ] ?:( oh great Darwin --- please forgive me. i have blasphemed against your holy Darwinian's and or cult [ in my opinion ]. im sorry.Charliecrs
August 11, 2005
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When will you creationists learn? The refusal to accept evolutionary naturalism is all that is keeping us from ushering in a new era of economic prosperity and material equality. Want to end world hunger? End ID. … (sarcasm)mechanicalbirds
August 11, 2005
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"...it takes a solid understanding of evolution to make the program work". Yes... no, no... yes, yes, no... but maybe... yes, no.Daniel512
August 11, 2005
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