Zeroseven said: “Hi Vivid, I’m not much of a logician. Just give your practical example and we can explore it.”
If you are not going to explore a practical example logically, what use is exploring it at all? To share your personal feelings?
Here’s the problem in for those that wish to interact with Aleta, Zeroseven and Clown Fish: it is utterly unimportant to them that their worldview, statements and behavior be logically consistent. This is why it simply doesn’t bother them to admit that they are hypocrites – insisting on one thing (that morality is subjective) while behaving the opposite way (like morality is objective), and why they keep raising objections that have already been thoroughly refuted (like morality is subjective because people don’t agree about it).
They do not enter conversations with a critical rationalism that they may be wrong about morality being subjective; they “know” it is subjective. Since they are not “logicians” and don’t care if their logic is in error, what good is rationally demonstrating the logical errors in their views? Their idea that morality is subjective is not based on any logical examination of their worldview premises leading to inferences then to rational explanations for actual behavior; it is based solely on sentiment – an emotional rejection of what objective morality would mean (theism), and personal sentiments about other people and their behaviors.
You cannot prove someone wrong about their subjective sentiments no matter how irrational or hypocritical those sentiments are. You cannot logically argue someone out of a faulty view if they didn’t come to that view via logic and if they do not consider logic a valid arbiter of truth.
While these exchanges are good as object lessons for many viewers, erroneous emotional investments cannot be corrected rationally. One would have to actually be committed to having a rationally coherent perspective before any logical argument might penetrate their commitment to their emotional views.
Without believing there is a truth by which some views can be considered erroneous, there is no valid corrective by which one can think they should correct their view. It’s just their personal, sentimental view of how things are, and they do not have to justify that view because there is – in their mind – no objective truth to such matters, and logic is not an arbiter of any real, objective truths.
I would add that while what WJM says is true, the logical incoherence of their views does not stop them from advocating for the use of the State’s monopoly on violence to force you and me to abide by those views. Does anyone else see the irony of a moral subjectivist forcing a Christian baker to use his artistic skill to celebrate a homosexual wedding?