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Logic & First Principles, 20: What is law?

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A good first step to understanding the ongoing failure of our civilisation is to contrast the common, positive law view of law summarised by Wikipedia (as a handy point of reference):

Law is a system of rules that are created and enforced through social or governmental institutions to regulate behavior. It has been defined both as “the Science of Justice” and “the Art of Justice”. Law is a system that regulates and ensures that individuals or a community adhere to the will of the state. State-enforced laws can be made by a collective legislature or by a single legislator, resulting in statutes, by the executive through decrees and regulations, or established by judges through precedent, normally in common law jurisdictions . . .

. . . with Cicero’s summary of received classical views in de Legibus, c. 50 BC:

“Law (say they) is the highest reason, implanted in nature, which prescribes those things which ought to be done, and forbids the contrary.” . . . . They therefore conceive that the voice of conscience is a law, that moral prudence is a law, whose operation is to urge us to good actions, and restrain us from evil ones. They think, too, that the Greek name for law (NOMOS), which is derived from NEMO, to distribute, implies the very nature of the thing, that is, to give every man his due. [–> this implies a definition of justice as the due balance of rights, freedoms and responsibilities] For my part, I imagine that the moral essence of law is better expressed by its Latin name, (lex), which conveys the idea of selection or discrimination. According to the Greeks, therefore, the name of law implies an equitable distribution of goods: according to the Romans, an equitable discrimination between good and evil.
The true definition of law should, however, include both these characteristics. And this being granted as an almost self–evident proposition, the origin of justice is to be sought in the divine law of eternal and immutable morality. This indeed is the true energy of nature, the very soul and essence of wisdom, the test of virtue and vice.

Obviously, we cannot tell truth by the calendar or clock, but by what is sound. The first of these approaches is largely about an exercise in state power, justice is almost a footnote, a disputable matter of definition. The latter, we can summarise as highest reason regarding duty and justice (i.e. the due balance of rights, freedoms and responsibilities) for the individual and the community. Where, the first known lawful duties of the rational, responsible individual are to truth, right reason, prudence, sound conscience, fairness and justice.

That is, the civil peace of justice must be central, not the raw exercise of rule making power. Thus, we see how law and primary, generally known duties of moral character are inextricably intertwined, tracing to our morally governed nature. Where also, due force is that which defends the civil peace of justice with proportionate means, enforcing what is lawful. Legitimate power is protective and regulated by rational and responsible principles of justice, it is not primary.

Why is such a distinction important?

Simple: unless sound reasoning i/l/o responsible, rational duty to justice is central (and so also the due balance of rights, freedoms and responsibilities), we are establishing a system of power imposition under colour of law. That is, law becomes whatever some centre of power finds it advantageous and convenient to impose and back by force. This then reduces law to precisely what Plato warned against in describing the radical materialists of his day in The Laws, Bk X c. 360 BC:

[The materialistic sophists hold] that the principles of justice have no existence at all in nature, but that mankind are always disputing about them and altering them; and that the alterations which are made by art and by law have no basis in nature, but are of authority for the moment and at the time at which they are made.
These, my friends, are the sayings of wise men, poets and prose writers, which find a way into the minds of youth. They are told by them that the highest right is might . . . . these philosophers inviting them to lead a true life according to nature, that is, to live in real dominion over others . . .

For, if the root of nature is an arbitrary, evolving material process, there is no basis for ought, save power. The door to nihilism lies open.

The famous second paragraph of the 1776 US Declaration of Independence brings the matter to a focus:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Here, we see that law is traced to the Just Creator, the source of reality who has made man as a rational, responsible, morally governed creature. One who holds “unalienable Rights,” binding moral claims to be respected due to one’s inherent dignity and status as a human being made in God’s image. As a social creature who thrives best in community (and, community founded on sound family), that leads to the need for rules of justice and good order, thus government. The just powers of government are circumscribed by general consent informed by the in-built laws of our evident nature. Where, patently, this is not “right-wing, Christofascist, theocratic tyranny” — let us lay that needless, slanderous strawman to rest.

In that context, prudence acts to address government gone sufficiently bad that resists remonstrance and calls for reformation:

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

In short, there comes a point where governments for cause lose their legitimacy: they are not merely incompetent but have become enemies of the civil peace of justice through abuse and usurpation. At that point, acting through existing or emerging representatives, the people have a collective right to replace government that has gone bad. This is of course a main function of the general election, a peaceful means of replacement.

This then allows us to refocus our understanding of law, that it is indeed a system of rules that are enforced and backed by sanctions. However, such must reflect also, the prime directive of justice, thus the innate law of our morally governed nature. Law that starts with duties to truth, right reason, prudence, sound conscience, fairness/justice etc. Absent such integral safeguards, power and will to power acting under colour of law will pervert justice and reduce citizens to serfs.

(And one obvious case is that it is no duty of the state to impose that evolutionary materialistic scientism is the de facto established ideology and religion-substitute, able to use force to block any challenge, including in institutions of science and those of education. Truth and right reason backed by the prudence that recognises how often scientific schools of thought change, would urge restraint. Dover et al, are failures of just law. Similarly, the acts under colour of law that have enabled the ongoing holocaust of our living posterity in the womb are manifestly lawless. The state’s powers are not the final judges of justice, they are accountable before the bar of truth, right reason and the right.)

To restore our civilisation to soundness, we have to soundly reform our understanding of law. A tough challenge, given the dominance of evolutionary materialistic scientism, and one has the impression that time is beginning to run out: Mene, mene, tekel, parsin. END

PS: I should pause to draw out a few notes on the implications of moral government of our inner life and linked behaviour. For, undeniably, we know that we have duties to the truth, right reason, prudence, good and sound conscience, fairness and justice.

If one would deny or dismiss this, let him or her ponder why s/he urges us to correct our errors of thought. In short, demonstrably undeniable.

From this, we see that insofar as law is rational and responsible (again hard to deny) it cannot be severed from the moral domain. In short the notion that we cannot legislate morality is fallacious. It is better to say that absent a critical mass of support, laws on the books are unenforceable.

We must then address the IS-OUGHT gap, in a post-Hume world, where only at the root of reality can such be bridged, on pain of ungrounded ought. That is, reasoning IS, thus IS, then poof-magic, OUGHT. Oughtness must be at the root of reality or else it is nowhere (other than as a grand delusion).

We thus need to hold that the root of reality is such that it inherently is good and thus grounds ought as reflecting that ultimate goodness. From this, law in seeking to support and defend the civil peace of justice must recognise such a root of reality or it will fail, opening the door to nihilism and the chaos of might and manipulation make ‘right,’ ‘truth,’ rights,’ ‘knowledge,’ ‘logic [i.e. right reason],’ ‘justice,’ and law etc. Which absurdity, should sound ever so familiar today.

The bill to be filled is a world source capable of grounding ought through being essentially good. After centuries of debate, there is precisely one serious candidate, the God of ethical theism. That is, the inherently good and utterly wise God, a necessary and maximaly great being. One, who is worthy of our loyalty and of our reasonable and responsible service by doing the good that accords with our evident nature.

You need not agree with this, but only to face the challenge that you too need to provide an adequate alternative that does not fall into ungrounded ought and/or grand delusion: _____________ Such is far harder to do than one may at first imagine.

PPS: Similarly, we may refresh our minds on how we may now freely set out to frame how that natural moral law may be drawn out, by using a first principles approach.

Let me promote some thoughts from 97 below, on |drawing out a framework for natural law, which on this focus is both more personal and more encompassing than statutory codes, judicial rulings, administrative regulations with force of law, contracts etc. Yes, it is a rational, self-evident principles based vision of law as shaping lives, families and civilisations that is regrettably now largely unfamiliar in a world that has now been reshaped by secularist forces and linked legal positivism, In effect, the forgotten vision of law.

It is worth the while to pause, and to remind ourselves of how that Bible-thumping theocratic Christofascist fundy [–> Pagan Stoic] Cicero summarised the received view, c. 50 BC; namely, how law is:

“highest reason, implanted in nature, which prescribes those things which ought to be done, and forbids the contrary.” . . . .[such that] the voice of conscience is a law, that moral prudence is a law, whose operation is to urge us to good actions, and restrain us from evil ones . . . . the origin of justice is to be sought in the divine law of eternal and immutable morality. This indeed is the true energy of nature, the very soul and essence of wisdom, the test of virtue and vice. “

This of course directly ties to how, undeniably, our responsible rational freedom is under the moral government (thus the law) of inherently known duty to truth, to right reason, to sound conscience, to prudence, to fairness, charity/benevolence and justice, etc. This then allows us to elaborate a worldviews level framework for law that then frames an agenda for rebuilding a sound culture. As in|, for instance:

1] The first self evident moral truth is that we are inescapably under the government of ought.

(This is manifest in even an objector’s implication in the questions, challenges and arguments that s/he would advance, that we are in the wrong and there is something to be avoided about that. That is, even the objector inadvertently implies that we OUGHT to do, think, aim for and say the right. Not even the hyperskeptical objector can escape this truth. Patent absurdity on attempted denial.)

2] Second self evident truth, we discern that some things are right and others are wrong by a compass-sense we term conscience which guides our thought. (Again, objectors depend on a sense of guilt/ urgency to be right not wrong on our part to give their points persuasive force. See what would be undermined should conscience be deadened or dismissed universally? Sawing off the branch on which we all must sit.)

3] Third, were this sense of conscience and linked sense that we can make responsibly free, rational decisions to be a delusion, we would at once descend into a status of grand delusion in which there is no good ground for confidence in our self-understanding. (That is, we look at an infinite regress of Plato’s cave worlds: once such a principle of grand global delusion is injected, there is no firewall so the perception of level one delusion is subject to the same issue, and this level two perception too, ad infinitum; landing in patent absurdity.)

4] Fourth, we are objectively under obligation of OUGHT. That is, despite any particular person’s (or group’s or august council’s or majority’s) wishes or claims to the contrary, such obligation credibly holds to moral certainty. That is, it would be irresponsible, foolish and unwise for us to act and try to live otherwise.

5] Fifth, this cumulative framework of moral government under OUGHT is the basis for the manifest core principles of the natural moral law under which we find ourselves obligated to the right the good, the true etc. Where also, patently, we struggle to live up to what we acknowledge or imply we ought to do.

6] Sixth, this means we live in a world in which being under core, generally understood principles of natural moral law is coherent and factually adequate, thus calling for a world-understanding in which OUGHT is properly grounded at root level. (Thus worldviews that can soundly meet this test are the only truly viable ones. If a worldview does not have in it a world-root level IS that can simultaneously ground OUGHT — so that IS and OUGHT are inextricably fused at that level, it fails decisively.)

7] Seventh, in light of the above, even the weakest and most voiceless of us thus has a natural right to life, liberty, the pursuit of fulfillment of one’s sense of what s/he ought to be (“happiness”). This includes the young child, the unborn and more. (We see here the concept that rights are binding moral expectations of others to provide respect in regards to us because of our inherent status as human beings, members of the community of valuable neighbours. Where also who is my neighbour was forever answered by the parable of the Good Samaritan. Likewise, there can be no right to demand of or compel my neighbour that s/he upholds me and enables me in the wrong — including under false colour of law through lawfare; usurping the sword of justice to impose a ruthless policy agenda in fundamental breach of that civil peace which must ever pivot on manifest justice. To justly claim a right, one must first be in the right.)

8] Eighth, like unto the seventh, such may only be circumscribed or limited for good cause. Such as, reciprocal obligation to cherish and not harm neighbour of equal, equally valuable nature in community and in the wider world of the common brotherhood of humanity.

9] Ninth, this is the context in which it becomes self evidently wrong, wicked and evil to kidnap, sexually torture and murder a young child or the like as concrete cases in point that show that might and/or manipulation do not make ‘right,’ ‘truth,’ ‘worth,’ ‘justice,’ ‘fairness,’ ‘law’ etc. That is, anything that expresses or implies the nihilist’s credo is morally absurd.

(Thus, we see here our sense of justice for the weak, inarticulate and defenseless; starkly manifest in the difference between luring and catching a fish to become lunch and luring and despoiling then destroying a child. Such a child has not the wit nor words to plead his case, nor the strength to defeat his attacker nor yet the speed to outrun him. Where, that some take pity on the fish and will go out of their way to eat only vegetables is itself further eloquent testimony on the point. [Notice, there is no “people for the ethical treatment of fruit, root starches, grains and vegetables” movement.]

10] Tenth, this entails that in civil society with government, justice is a principal task of legitimate government. In short, nihilistic will to power untempered by the primacy of justice is its own refutation in any type of state. Where, justice is the due balance of rights, freedoms and responsibilities. (In Aristotle’s terms as cited by Hooker: “because we would take no harm, we must therefore do none; That since we would not be in any thing extremely dealt with, we must ourselves avoid all extremity in our dealings; That from all violence and wrong we are utterly to abstain, with such-like .”) Thus also,

11] Eleventh, that government is and ought to be subject to audit, reformation and if necessary replacement should it fail sufficiently badly and incorrigibly.

(NB: This is a requisite of accountability for justice, and the suggestion or implication of some views across time, that government can reasonably be unaccountable to the governed, is its own refutation, reflecting — again — nihilistic will to power; which is automatically absurd. This truth involves the issue that finite, fallible, morally struggling men acting as civil authorities in the face of changing times and situations as well as in the face of the tendency of power to corrupt, need to be open to remonstrance and reformation — or if they become resistant to reasonable appeal, there must be effective means of replacement. Hence, the principle that the general election is an insitutionalised regular solemn assembly of the people for audit and reform or if needs be replacement of government gone bad. But this is by no means an endorsement of the notion that a manipulated mob bent on a march of folly has a right to do as it pleases.)

12] Twelfth, the attempt to deny or dismiss such a general framework of moral governance invariably lands in shipwreck of incoherence and absurdity. As, has been seen in outline. But that does not mean that the attempt is not going to be made, so there is a mutual obligation of frank and fair correction and restraint of evil.

Comments
KF@74, if a same sex couple marrying is enough to bring civilization to ruin then civilization was doomed anyway. You keep claiming to have put sufficient reason on the table why same sex marriage will bring ruin to civilization, but that simply is not true. You have done little more than the equivalent of wearing a sandwich board with “ The End Is Nigh” on it. Can you provide a single concrete negative to same sex marriage. A negative that you have evidence demonstrating it.Brother Brian
May 16, 2019
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I'm not sure why BB and DS are steering this thread into discussion about homosexual marriage. What's there to say about it other than it's unnatural, nonsensical and it's around ONLY because of sexual revolution program being pushed on people for decades. Kairos I think pendulum will swing the other way. I see a big pro life grassroots movement developing in otherwise docile Canada. It's happening by people simply not backing down when confronted by pro abortion activists. It's back to basics like you mention above. It's important that pro life supporters don't get scared or intimidated by usually loud opponents who lack of arguments supplement with shouting slogans and name calling. It takes practice but it's doableEugen
May 16, 2019
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BB, good enough reason has been put on the table many times, but I doubt that mere argument will be enough at this stage: the socialist economies and politics had to collapse before reformation could begin, at least national identities were on the whole preserved; I am not sure that will happen this time around, I especially doubt the long term viability of the US. And such quaint notions as liberty? Forget it, we are headed for very hard times when the most we can hope for is lawful rather than utterly autocratic successor states. More generally, if a crooked yardstick is made the standard of length, straightness and uprightness, then what is actually so cannot pass the test of crookedness. This is why it is so vital to get plumb-line self-evident truths (including moral ones) on the table that are naturally straight and upright. But if that is rejected then there only remains going over the cliff and hitting hard on rock bottom. That is where it seems our civilisation is. Sad, but there is not much that can be done to reverse sufficiently strong destructive momentum. KFkairosfocus
May 16, 2019
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F/N: An interesting clip from a discussion on natural law:
Natural Law Theory of Law Legal systems have a function— to secure justice. Grossly unjust laws . . . are not really laws at all, but a perversion of law or mere violence. As St. Augustine put it, lex injustia non est lex. Aquinas’s way of stating this point: positive law has as its purpose the common good of the community. Any positive law which conflicts/is inconsistent with either natural law or divine law is not really law at all. Hence, not only is there no moral obligation to obey it, but there is no legal obligation to obey it, either. Augustine, Aquinas, and Martin Luther King are supporters of this view. Lon Fuller argued there is some necessary overlap between legality and justice, because it’s impossible to have a legal system without fidelity to the rule of law and formal justice. (Fuller would probably have cited Iraq under Saddam Hussein as a good example of a society that violated the rule of law so much that it really had no genuine legal system at all). But Fuller does not go as far as Augustine or Aquinas, because he admits that a society can have a genuine legal system that satisfies the demands of formal justice (“like cases must be treated alike”) yet still have particular laws that are unjust.
Here we see the general framework of justice as motivating law and giving it legitimacy, with specific statutes supporting good order and community thriving. Where, if competent authorities can be seen as having such duties, failure on their part to do due diligence to apply wisdom towards good order is negligence, a form of injustice. Much can be articulated on such a basis. KFkairosfocus
May 16, 2019
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KF, I know I have given you a hard time over same sex marriage, and I apologize if it has gotten personal, but you still have not provided a rational reason, other than “my religion says so”, why two people of the same sex should be denied what my wife and I enjoy. Marriage is a legal contract. It is a promise in front of others. There have been too many examples of long term same sex couples who are separated when one gets sick because they are not related to their loved one and their partner’s family is homophobic. Or when one dies and the survivor is not protected by the same laws that protect opposite sex couples. Or when a person’s Employer’s health plan covers the spouse, but not the person they have lived with for decades Whether or not they can have children together is irrelevant. We don’t deny marriage to elderly couples, or to couples who can’t have children. We don’t deny marriage to couples who are physically incapable of having sex. But you are willing to deny marriage to couples simply because you are disgusted by where they put their penises. Would you also deny marriage to opposite sex couples who engage in anal sex? At some point we have to keep the government and the church out of our bedrooms.Brother Brian
May 16, 2019
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Enough has been put on the table to show how some side issues illustrate the main challenge. The reason why I am pessimistic should be clear enough, we likely will insist on going over the cliff so it is rock bottom that will have to teach us. Again.kairosfocus
May 16, 2019
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DaveS@69, I saw what you did there. :)Brother Brian
May 16, 2019
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nmdaveS
May 16, 2019
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KF
Money-shot remark
Am I the only one who is laughing at KF’s use of the term “money shot” (a term he has often used) when we are talking about human sexuality? :) :) :)Brother Brian
May 16, 2019
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KF
DS, I have shown you why your opinion is wrong...
No you haven’t. You have expressed your opinion and DaveS and I (and the majority of others) disagree with you. Calling everything you disagree with lawfare does not detract from the moral a legal right for same sex couples to marry.
...and why the attempt to force it on our civilisation under colour of law is liable to have destructive consequences.
It is not being forced on civilization. It has been requested and civilization has found no reason why it should not be allowed. And the destructive consequences you keep talking about simply haven’t materialized.Brother Brian
May 16, 2019
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KF, I don't know what you hope to achieve by posting statements by this Russian-Australian activist. I am speaking of the issue of same-sex couples in the US (such as my neighbors, non-activists who would simply like to live their lives). Do you think their freedom to marry should be curtailed because of foreign "radicals"?daveS
May 16, 2019
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DaveS
I will add that at this point, we do have some empirical evidence—several countries have had same-sex marriage for some time with no apparent ill effects.
You just have to look north of the border for an example. I agree, I have never heard any compelling arguments as to why same sex couples shouldn’t be allowed to marry. As far as I can tell they simply boil down to religious arguments. But I can think of several reasons to allow it.Brother Brian
May 16, 2019
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DS, I have shown you why your opinion is wrong and why the attempt to force it on our civilisation under colour of law is liable to have destructive consequences. In short, word magic -- not even when done under colour of law through legal positivism's rejection of our morally governed nature -- cannot change actual realities, as the socialists learned the hard way, at a cost exceeding 100 million lives. KF PS: For a roll the tape cat out of the bag statement by Russian-Australian activist Masha Gessen on what the radicals intend (fully parallel to Lewontin in NYRB), cf here. Money-shot remark -- which was applauded -- "the institution of marriage should not exist." Let me clip:
Ms. Gessen’s comments on the subject seem to contradict the pro-gay-marriage party lines. Gessen shared her views on the subject and very specifically stated; “Gay marriage is a lie.” “Fighting for gay marriage generally involves lying about what we’re going to do with marriage when we get there.” “It’s a no-brainer that the institution of marriage should not exist.” (This statement is met with very loud applause.) As mentioned above, Gessen also talked about redefining the traditional family. This may have something to do with the fact that she has “three children with five parents”: “I don’t see why they (her children) shouldn’t have five parents legally. I don’t see why we should choose two of those parents and make them a sanctioned couple.” Ms Gessen is frank, and we must thank her for that. Now, we cannot say that we do not know or did not have access to knowing. Which means, we have to think, soberly discuss then do something principled and effective about this.
kairosfocus
May 16, 2019
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KF,
DS, evidently it has not registered with you that, given what a marriage and a family inherently are, marriage is only possible between a man and a woman.
You are correct, sir. As far as I can tell, two people of the same sex can marry and form a family just as I did. And I have seen this with my own eyes.daveS
May 16, 2019
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DS, evidently it has not registered with you that, given what a marriage and a family inherently are, marriage is only possible between a man and a woman. Marriage is not a standard form contract of the fill in the blanks variety that any two individuals can fill in, absent some dubious religious theocratic discrimination or the like. We are dealing with the core institution of stable society and with predictable destabilising consequences of abusing the colour of law to try to push into it what is inherently not of the same nature. Already, we can see that individual identity based on being born as male or female is being similarly destabilised and much more. You can grab the word marriage, paste it on to a contract form, seize state power and decree that Adam and Steve, or Eve and Mary, or Sue and Fido or Sam and his robot are "married," but such acts under colour of law are by the nature of the case simply unable to be what marriage is as to its core nature and identity, which are what drive its foundational social functionality, significance and effects. Of course, this is just one of several such damaging exercises that are now in progress. No magic of words and power games with positivist approaches to law or cultural marxist oppression narratives are going to change what is in the end something that is a law of our nature. All that will result from the attempt is chaos and damage to our civilisation. Likely with terrible, lingering consequences; similar to the now failed socialist experiments of the past century. KF PS: Let me again put up, what George, Girgis and Anderson wrote in the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy that:
“Marriage is the union of a man and a woman [--> complementarity of the two opposite, genetically stamped sexes factor] who make a permanent and exclusive commitment [--> stability factor] to each other of the type that is naturally (inherently) fulfilled by bearing and rearing children together [--> reproduction unit factor, tied to stability requisites of child nurture]. The spouses seal (consummate) and renew their union by conjugal acts—acts that constitute the behavioral part of the process of reproduction, thus uniting them as a reproductive unit [--> act of marital union factor, also properly defining sexual intercourse in the teeth of positivist distortions]. Marriage is valuable in itself, but its inherent orientation to the bearing and rearing of children contributes to its distinctive structure, including norms of monogamy and fidelity [--> child nurture, social stability and personal maturation/virtue factors]. This link to the welfare of children also helps explain why marriage is important to the common good [--> community stability factor, including productively channelling, civilising and taming young men] and why the state should recognize and regulate it.”[--> Legitimate state interest vs positivist subversion; note also, RECOGNISE, not constitute, marriage is antecedent to state, civilisation and society] [“What is Marriage?,” Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy, Vol 34 No. 1, p. 246.]
That is a little glimpse of what I am talking about.kairosfocus
May 16, 2019
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KF,
DS, again, what you may personally think is one thing, the evidence of what is driving the lawfare and agit prop is another. KF
That's not a rationale for preventing same-sex couples from marrying. You can fight all these agit-prop battles if you like, but kindly leave my neighbors 3 doors down out of it.daveS
May 16, 2019
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SM,
First, DS, “I don’t think … etc” is not really an argument. WHY do you not think so? What reason or logic or compelling network of facts and logical implications leads to this conclusion?
I don't think so because no one has presented me with an argument which compels me to believe these differences are important. Just like I don't think aliens have landed on Earth because I have not run across any compelling evidence indicating they have. I will add that at this point, we do have some empirical evidence---several countries have had same-sex marriage for some time with no apparent ill effects.daveS
May 16, 2019
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SM, thanks for some thoughtful words. And yes, my motivation is that I lived through the foolish self-ruin of my homeland that ended in a low intensity civil war and an utterly wrecked economy. One of the victims was a beloved "Auntie," murdered through a radical's invitation to vigilantism on national radio 39 years ago this month. We see a civilisation in serious trouble and heading for a cliff, with many caught up in clever ideological agendas including agit prop, media amplified street theatre, lawfare, promotion of anti-civilisational agendas and more. I am very aware that momentum like we are seeing is hard to turn around (one reason why misleaders are so sternly warned about causing others to stumble in more than one Dominical saying). I see a guilty secret. The question is whether we can wake up before it is too late, before we hit rock bottom hard, very hard. Of that, I am actually pessimistic but there is a duty of warning. As for the damage ever so many are doing to their souls, the guilty secret of our civilisation speaks volumes. KFkairosfocus
May 16, 2019
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BB, Regarding the sort of collectively suicidal factionalism EDTA has in mind, you may consider Plato's parable of the ship of state, which reflects on the failure of Athens through and in the aftermath of the Peloponnesian war. This failure of democracy was a major shaping factor on political thinking all the way to C20. Indeed, it is why the USA is specifically a Constitutional Republic and severely checks democratic elements (e.g. the Electoral College):
It is not too hard to figure out that our civilisation is in deep trouble and is most likely headed for shipwreck. (And of course, that sort of concern is dismissed as “apocalyptic,” or neurotic pessimism that refuses to pause and smell the roses.) Plato’s Socrates spoke to this sort of situation, long since, in the ship of state parable in The Republic, Bk VI:
>>[Soc.] I perceive, I said, that you are vastly amused at having plunged me into such a hopeless discussion; but now hear the parable, and then you will be still more amused at the meagreness of my imagination: for the manner in which the best men are treated in their own States is so grievous that no single thing on earth is comparable to it; and therefore, if I am to plead their cause, I must have recourse to fiction, and put together a figure made up of many things, like the fabulous unions of goats and stags which are found in pictures. Imagine then a fleet or a ship in which there is a captain [–> often interpreted, ship’s owner] who is taller and stronger than any of the crew, but he is a little deaf and has a similar infirmity in sight, and his knowledge of navigation is not much better. [= The people own the community and in the mass are overwhelmingly strong, but are ill equipped on the whole to guide, guard and lead it] The sailors are quarrelling with one another about the steering – every one is of opinion that he has a right to steer [= selfish ambition to rule and dominate], though he has never learned the art of navigation and cannot tell who taught him or when he learned, and will further assert that it cannot be taught, and they are ready to cut in pieces any one who says the contrary. They throng about the captain, begging and praying him to commit the helm to them [–> kubernetes, steersman, from which both cybernetics and government come in English]; and if at any time they do not prevail, but others are preferred to them, they kill the others or throw them overboard [ = ruthless contest for domination of the community], and having first chained up the noble captain’s senses with drink or some narcotic drug [ = manipulation and befuddlement, cf. the parable of the cave], they mutiny and take possession of the ship and make free with the stores; thus, eating and drinking, they proceed on their voyage in such a manner as might be expected of them [–> Cf here Luke’s subtle case study in Ac 27]. Him who is their partisan and cleverly aids them in their plot for getting the ship out of the captain’s hands into their own whether by force or persuasion [–> Nihilistic will to power on the premise of might and manipulation making ‘right’ ‘truth’ ‘justice’ ‘rights’ etc], they compliment with the name of sailor, pilot, able seaman, and abuse the other sort of man, whom they call a good-for-nothing; but that the true pilot must pay attention to the year and seasons and sky and stars and winds, and whatever else belongs to his art, if he intends to be really qualified for the command of a ship, and that he must and will be the steerer, whether other people like or not-the possibility of this union of authority with the steerer’s art has never seriously entered into their thoughts or been made part of their calling. Now in vessels which are in a state of mutiny and by sailors who are mutineers, how will the true pilot be regarded? Will he not be called by them a prater, a star-gazer, a good-for-nothing? [Ad.] Of course, said Adeimantus. [Soc.] Then you will hardly need, I said, to hear the interpretation of the figure, which describes the true philosopher in his relation to the State[ --> here we see Plato's philosoppher-king emerging]; for you understand already. [Ad.] Certainly. [Soc.] Then suppose you now take this parable to the gentleman who is surprised at finding that philosophers have no honour in their cities; explain it to him and try to convince him that their having honour would be far more extraordinary. [Ad.] I will. [Soc.] Say to him, that, in deeming the best votaries of philosophy to be useless to the rest of the world, he is right; but also tell him to attribute their uselessness to the fault of those who will not use them, and not to themselves. The pilot should not humbly beg the sailors to be commanded by him –that is not the order of nature; neither are ‘the wise to go to the doors of the rich’ –the ingenious author of this saying told a lie –but the truth is, that, when a man is ill, whether he be rich or poor, to the physician he must go, and he who wants to be governed, to him who is able to govern. The ruler who is good for anything ought not to beg his subjects to be ruled by him [ --> down this road lies the modern solution: a sound, well informed people will seek sound leaders, who will not need to manipulate or bribe or worse, and such a ruler will in turn be checked by the soundness of the people, cf. US DoI, 1776]; although the present governors of mankind are of a different stamp; they may be justly compared to the mutinous sailors, and the true helmsmen to those who are called by them good-for-nothings and star-gazers. [Ad.] Precisely so, he said. [Soc] For these reasons, and among men like these, philosophy, the noblest pursuit of all, is not likely to be much esteemed by those of the opposite faction; not that the greatest and most lasting injury is done to her by her opponents, but by her own professing followers, the same of whom you suppose the accuser to say, that the greater number of them are arrant rogues, and the best are useless; in which opinion I agreed [--> even among the students of the sound state (here, political philosophy and likely history etc.), many are of unsound motivation and intent, so mere education is not enough, character transformation is critical]. [Ad.] Yes. [Soc.] And the reason why the good are useless has now been explained? [Ad.] True. [Soc.] Then shall we proceed to show that the corruption of the majority is also unavoidable, and that this is not to be laid to the charge of philosophy any more than the other? [Ad.] By all means. [Soc.] And let us ask and answer in turn, first going back to the description of the gentle and noble nature.[ -- > note the character issue] Truth, as you will remember, was his leader, whom he followed always and in all things [ --> The spirit of truth as a marker]; failing in this, he was an impostor, and had no part or lot in true philosophy [--> the spirit of truth is a marker, for good or ill] . . . >>
(There is more than an echo of this in Acts 27, a real world case study. [Luke, a physician, was an educated Greek with a taste for subtle references.] This blog post, on soundness in policy, will also help)
There can be a polarisation and disintegration that becomes suicidal. Wiemar Germany is another, more current case. One could argue, this happened with Venezuela, compounded by socialist political messianism. There are others. KFkairosfocus
May 16, 2019
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DS, again, what you may personally think is one thing, the evidence of what is driving the lawfare and agit prop is another. KFkairosfocus
May 16, 2019
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"I don’t think these differences are important in deciding whether a couple should be allowed to marry or not" First, DS, "I don't think ... etc" is not really an argument. WHY do you not think so? What reason or logic or compelling network of facts and logical implications leads to this conclusion? Secondly, IF the definition of marriage is one man and one woman then no amount of liberal disinterest in the question can allow two women to marry. Hence, in recent times, the ongoing efforts to re-define the concept. In law. Which brings us to the third point: that what is described in the OP is the ascendance of man to god-hood. "I AM the Law!" as the saying goes, neatly co-opting and perverting simultaneously God's self-description, "I AM that I AM". But there remains this fundamental difference between man's laws and God's law: the first is an ever-growing set of arbitrary constraints imposed externally by force and the threat of force, while the latter is the underlying reality on which (or of which, if you prefer) our apparent reality is built. The former is avoidable by a number of means, the latter is not, not by any means. This is why Paul said to "owe no man any thing" - because in having not paid what is owed you are in breach with the moral nature of existence and reality WILL work itself out in such a way that every equation is perfectly balanced, every debt ultimately settled, every wrong action meeting at last with its equal and opposite reaction. In attempting to marry, two women are harming themselves every bit as much as if they stood at the edge of the roof of the Empire State building and stepped off, attempting to fly. It is not necessary for anyone to detect this attempted breach, seek out the criminals, and punish them. The consequences of their actions, the reactions, will occur as a matter of course and as a function of the design principles of our existence. As a codicil, those who call both these equally harmful attempts "good" and encourage the unlearned to experiment with them, in callous disregard to the consequences, also stand in breach of the moral nature of existence, and therefore also stand in debt to the law. Finally, those of us who apprehend the moral nature of existence are by it duty-bound to call attention to these errors, lest we also find ourselves in similar straits. It is our duty to plainly identify error and to call attention to its consequences, in the hope that we can help others to avoid these consequences by the simple means of avoiding the actions that give rise to them. You may, as is the wont of some who comment here, characterise these warnings as hate-speech - God knows there is no shortage of believers guilty of that error - but there is no warrant for accusing KF of that. There is simply no evidence that he has any object in mind other than to spare other people the painful consequences of error. I highly recommend to all readers Emerson's insightful essay on this topic, entitled "Compensation". It is worthy of repeated contemplation and can be found freely on the 'net.ScuzzaMan
May 16, 2019
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KF,
Do you recognise that there is such a thing as legal positivism, as described?
Yes, it exists, but it has no bearing on my views of this subject. For me, the question is what coherent rationale there is for preventing same-sex couples from marrying, while I am allowed to. I haven't found one yet.daveS
May 16, 2019
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BB, your rejection of patent facts and the fact that millions have been indoctrinated with the most pernicious principles of dehumanising our living posterity in the womb (the better to freely put them to death under colour of law) does not change the facts. A is still A, i/l/o core characteristics. The child in the womb is human from conception on, s/he has a particular genetic complement distinct from parents, which is permanent, and so to kill the child in the womb is to kill innocent human life, where abortion is a deliberate act. That alone should give us serious pause as we reflect on why in all justice, life is the first right, without which there are no other rights. But then, we see the spreading effects of corrosive worldview doctrines that have led to the dominance of positivist law: "positivism as a theory of law, it may be summarized by saying that law may have any content. The law is what is laid down and that is an end to it" -- Collins Dict of Law & "positivists conclude that as long as a written law has been duly enacted by a branch of government, it must be deemed valid and binding, regardless of whether it offends anyone’s sense of right and wrong" -- West's. A warning, not a progress. KFkairosfocus
May 16, 2019
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DS, you may not be but those leading the positivist lawfare charge most definitely are; that is part of the ruling I am monitoring. KFkairosfocus
May 16, 2019
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Eugen
There child labour is producing things for us in unsafe work environment and certain groups (some religious) are badly oppressed. So we shouldn’t feel good about ourselves but rather admit there are still huge problems in the world.
I agree that this is a big problem. But the best solution to that is to make people aware of these conditions and what companies are taking advantage of it. There are many companies with plants in China or other countries because labor costs are low, which is not necessarily a problem. And many of these companies require their plant managers to implement similar working conditions to what is legislated here, and they frequently audit them for compliance. No company wants to be in the headlines for using child labor or for chaining shut fire exits.Brother Brian
May 16, 2019
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Um, are you sure that is the criteria for truth?
Of course not. Majority agreement does not always indicate that something is true. But I was responding to KF's claim that his assertions about the abortion issue are manifestly real. And if something is manifestly real (i.e., "clear or obvious to the eye or mind") I would think, by definition, that it would be clear to more than 50% of people.
To the other question of our decline, I offer the following broad categories of things necessary for a vibrant society: Moral unity – necessary to prevent fragmentation; in decline.
But, to be fair, has there ever been a time when a civilization has had moral unity? And with respect to homosexuality and same sex marriage, I would argue that we are getting closer and closer to unity on our acceptance of them. Does that mean that our society is on the ascendency?
Political diversity/division not too great for us to function – necessary to allow problems to be solved;
If there was no political diversity/division, would there be any need for a democracy? I think that political diversity/division is critical for a vibrant society. Our problem is the two-party system. In other countries that have three or more parties (e.g., Canada) you often have minority governments where the different parties are forced to come to common ground.
Vision – necessary so that we have common goals to work towards as a nation.
Yes, this is important. And I believe that we do have a national vision. Where the disagreements come into play is in how we achieve this vision.
Cultural continuity – necessary so that good aspects are not simply lost in one generation.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you referring to cultural homogeneity (e.g., everyone with shared Christian values)? If that is the case, I would argue that a civilization is more vibrant with a diversity of cultures.Brother Brian
May 16, 2019
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KF, I'll have to respond fully later, but as to this:
DS, you insist on the word magic of imagining that marriage is a simple civil contract that certain parties have somehow been “unjustly” denied and discriminated against due to oh so oppressive backward traditions and religions etc;
I'm definitely not blaming "oppressive backward traditions and religions" for anything here. I'm trying not to assign blame at all. Rather, I'm comparing my own experience with marriage with that of others (for example gays and lesbians). So far I haven't found any coherent rationale to deny them the choice to marry.daveS
May 16, 2019
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DS, you insist on the word magic of imagining that marriage is a simple civil contract that -- per the standard anti-civilisation narrative of cultural marxism and fellow travellers -- certain parties have somehow been "unjustly" denied and discriminated against due to oh so oppressive backward traditions and religions etc; where of course the underlying legal positivism is playing at manipulative rhetoric here as it explicitly dismisses justice in favour of whoever has taken power imposing rules as they wish regardless of the centrality of moral government for creatures such as we are. But that is an error, marriage is a covenant tied to manifest laws of our nature tied to requisites of reproduction, child nurture and complementarity of the sexes -- in turn, linked to issues commonly suppressed due to the guilty secret of our civilisation. Those factors form a cluster of defining characteristics that we trifle with at peril, as is unfolding as we speak . . a civilisation in growing chaos and cacophony. And again, this is a thread about the nature of law i/l/o the threat of positivism, not about tangential rhetorical exchanges save insofar as they illustrate the main point. Do you recognise that there is such a thing as legal positivism, as described? If so, what are the potential consequences of its dominance? Are we seeing such, and where does this point given the cumulative, accelerating nature of precedent in law? If you think not, why, i.e. on what warrant? KF F/N: As a reminder, George, Girgis and Anderson wrote in the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy that:
“Marriage is the union of a man and a woman [--> complementarity of the two opposite, genetically stamped sexes factor] who make a permanent and exclusive commitment to each other [--> stability factor] of the type that is naturally (inherently) fulfilled by bearing and rearing children together [--> reproduction unit factor, tied to stability requisites of child nurture]. The spouses seal (consummate) and renew their union by conjugal acts—acts that constitute the behavioral part of the process of reproduction, thus uniting them as a reproductive unit [--> act of marital union factor, also properly defining sexual intercourse in the teeth of positivist distortions]. Marriage is valuable in itself, but its inherent orientation to the bearing and rearing of children contributes to its distinctive structure, including norms of monogamy and fidelity [--> child nurture, social stability and personal maturation/virtue factors]. This link to the welfare of children also helps explain why marriage is important to the common good [--> community stability factor, including productively channelling, civilising and taming young men] and why the state should recognize and regulate it.”[--> Legitimate state interest vs positivist subversion; note also, RECOGNISE, not constitute, marriage is antecedent to state, civilisation and society] [“What is Marriage?,” Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy, Vol 34 No. 1, p. 246.]
We may compare the hitherto global consensus tradition now being targetted by positivist activists:
Matt 19:4 He [Jesus] answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female [–> Gen 1 – 2, note the identified, naturally obvious case of two distinct, reproductively complementary sexes, here anchored to creation order for the human race], 5 and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother [–> implying the successive generations of families built on man + woman + faithful commitment –> well-nurtured children] and hold fast to his wife [–> fidelity propagates from one generation to the next, how much more so infidelity], and the two [= husband (male) + wife (female)] shall become one flesh’ [–> through the act of marital, procreative union, naturally leading to children]? 6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. [–> ponder how the child reflects that union] What therefore God has joined together [–> Adam and Eve and their successors in one flesh union], let not man separate [–> including, how much more, by violating the nature of marital union: Adam + Steve, Eve + Mary, Either + fido, or a robot etc].”
kairosfocus
May 16, 2019
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KF,
DS, There is an issue of reality that settles what we talk about. If we speak truth, we accurately describe reality. That you are evidently blind to obvious differences is interesting psychologically but it does not change the reality and its implications given the dominance of the ruinous approach to law, positivism; which turns on dismissing our morally governed nature, thus dismissing the way rationality is governed as well as as part of that, duty to justice, the heart of law properly understood. Which, is the actual focus for this thread, for cause. KF
It's not that I'm blind to differences, but rather I don't think these differences are important in deciding whether a couple should be allowed to marry or not.daveS
May 16, 2019
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KF, "this sets up destructive, ruinous impositions" Yes, it does. And sadly, the supposedly open-minded among us refuse to open their minds and acknowledge it. Andrewasauber
May 16, 2019
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