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L & FP, 49-i: The Reichstag Fire-panic lesson on agit prop and lawfare

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The Reichstag Fire, Feb 27, 1933

Vivid recently reminded us of the painful, bloody lesson of history taught by Hitler’s seizure of power in 1933. I responded, noting:

[I]sn’t it interesting that the Reichstag Fire crisis isn’t a standard part of our general education package. It almost makes one wonder why it is that the story of how the most universally acknowledged unmitigatedly evil dictator seized absolute power through agit prop and lawfare is somehow pushed to the margins of our common fund of knowledge. Not quite a conspiracy of silencing but at least a common evasion of plain duty by those who inform and educate us. Ironically, on a topic where learning this is vital to defending our civilisation, the common thought association fed by dominant narratives will be that appeal to Hitler is fallacious and demonising. Not when it is manifestly relevant and counter-balances a narrative that actually does just such a demonisation . . .

I think it is important enough to actually put up a summary, and I further noted:

This is one time when Wikipedia’s admissions are at minimum relevant and mostly on target food for thought. (I think it is most likely that Hitler and co opportunistically exploited an ill-advised violent protest action by a likely half-mad youth IIRC one week before an election was due, to set an agit prop and lawfare juggernaut loose; that is, I don’t accept the perception that the Nazis set the fire themselves as a false flag operation . . . they were however primed to pounce on and use any convenient incident they could frame through narrative and institutional domination. The consequences were horrific.)

Accordingly, let us learn from that oh so humble source, Wikipedia, as it is forced by a forest of facts to admit:

The Reichstag fire (German: Reichstagsbrand, About this soundlisten (help·info)) was an arson attack on the Reichstag building, home of the German parliament in Berlin, on Monday 27 February 1933, precisely four weeks after Adolf Hitler was sworn in as Chancellor of Germany. Hitler’s government stated that Marinus van der Lubbe, a Dutch council communist, was the culprit, and it attributed the fire to communist agitators. A German court decided later that year that Van der Lubbe had acted alone, as he had claimed. The day after the fire, the Reichstag Fire Decree was passed. The Nazi Party used the fire as a pretext to claim that communists were plotting against the German government, which made the fire pivotal in the establishment of Nazi Germany.

The first report of the fire came shortly after 9:00 p.m., when a Berlin fire station received an alarm call.[1] By the time police and firefighters arrived, the lower house ‘Chamber of Deputies’ was engulfed in flames. The police conducted a thorough search inside the building and accused Van der Lubbe. He was arrested, as were four communist leaders soon after. Hitler urged President Paul von Hindenburg to issue an emergency decree to suspend civil liberties and pursue a “ruthless confrontation” with the Communist Party of Germany.[2] After the decree was issued, the government instituted mass arrests of communists, including all of the Communist Party’s parliamentary delegates. With their bitter rival communists gone and their seats empty, the Nazi Party went from having a plurality to a majority, thus enabling Hitler to consolidate his power . . . .

After the November 1932 German federal election, the Nazi Party had a plurality, not a majority; the Communists posted gains.[7] Adolf Hitler was sworn in as Chancellor and head of the coalition government on 30 January 1933.[8] As chancellor, Hitler asked President Paul von Hindenburg to dissolve the Reichstag and call for a new parliamentary election. The date set for the elections was 5 March 1933.[9]

Hitler hoped to abolish democracy in a more or less legal fashion, by passing the Enabling Act. The Enabling Act was a special law that gave the Chancellor the power to pass laws by decree, without the involvement of the Reichstag. These special powers would remain in effect for four years, after which time they were eligible to be renewed. Under the Weimar Constitution, the President could rule by decree in times of emergency using Article 48.[10] During the election campaign, the Nazis alleged that Germany was on the verge of a Communist revolution and that the only way to stop the Communists was to put the Nazis securely in power . . . .

The day after the fire, at Hitler’s request, President Hindenburg signed the Reichstag Fire Decree into law by using Article 48 of the Weimar Constitution. The Reichstag Fire Decree suspended most civil liberties in Germany, including habeas corpus, freedom of expression, freedom of the press, the right of free association and public assembly, and the secrecy of the post and telephone.[18] These rights were not reinstated during Nazi reign. The decree was used by the Nazis to ban publications not considered “friendly” to the Nazi cause. Despite the fact that Marinus van der Lubbe claimed to have acted alone in the Reichstag fire, Hitler, after having obtained his emergency powers, announced that it was the start of a Communist plot to take over Germany. Nazi Party newspapers then published this fabricated “news”.[18] This sent the German population into a panic and isolated the Communists further among the civilians; additionally, thousands of Communists were imprisoned in the days following the fire (including leaders of the Communist Party of Germany) on the charge that the Party was preparing to stage a putsch. Speaking to Rudolph Diels about Communists during the Reichstag fire, Hitler said “These sub-humans do not understand how the people stand at our side. In their mouse-holes, out of which they now want to come, of course they hear nothing of the cheering of the masses.”[19] With Communist electoral participation also suppressed (the Communists previously polled 17% of the vote), the Nazis were able to increase their share of the vote in the 5 March 1933 Reichstag elections from 33% to 44%.[20] This gave the Nazis and their allies, the German National People’s Party (who won 8% of the vote), a majority of 52% in the Reichstag.[20]

While the Nazis emerged with a majority, they fell short of their goal, which was to win 50–55% of the vote that year.[20] The Nazis thought that this would make it difficult to achieve their next goal, passage of the Enabling Act giving Hitler the right to rule by decree, which required a two-thirds majority.[20] However, several important factors weighed in the Nazis’ favour, mainly the continued suppression of the Communist Party and the Nazis’ ability to capitalize on national security concerns. Moreover, some deputies of the Social Democratic Party (the only party that would vote against the Enabling Act) were prevented from taking their seats in the Reichstag, due to arrests and intimidation by the Nazi SA. As a result, the Social Democratic Party would be under-represented in the final vote tally. The Enabling Act passed easily on 23 March 1933, with the support of the right-wing German National People’s Party, the Centre Party, and several fragmented middle-class parties. The measure went into force on 24 March, effectively making Hitler dictator of Germany.[21]

The Kroll Opera House, sitting across the Königsplatz from the burned-out Reichstag building, functioned as the Reichstag’s venue for the remaining 12 years of the Third Reich’s existence.[22]

We could say to the latter, an appropriate venue.

Many sobering lessons lurk here, starting with, beware of being trapped between the devil and the deep blue sea. One may be trapped into a false dilemma, especially if one is not thinking straight due to how one is being manipulated by dirty big money and its bought and paid for spokesmen (who will of course have impeccable credentials). Frankly, the historical microcosm for such is Acts 27, taking the text there simply as a slice of literature, here, history, from the classical world.

In that context, I beg us to understand that the Left-Centre-Right [LCR] political spectrum model that dominates popular and even academic thought is deeply flawed, lending itself to manipulation of the perceived centre of safety:

So, instead, let us learn the lesson of the dirty Overton Window game:

The key thing to recall, is that given the sad history of Athenian democracy and the Peloponnesian war, as well as Ac 27 and much more recent history, democracies are inherently unstable though they also provide for otherwise unprecedented freedom with a good measure of protective order.

For such to happen, there must be stabilising cultural buttresses that lie beyond the rough and tumble of dirty, manipulative politics [thus, the inherent danger of totalising materialistic and/or radically secularist ideologies that are amoral and/or invite nihilism], and which provide a framework of moral guidance tied to core, built-in human characteristics of being morally governed. That, in turn, is why modern constitutional democracy emerged in the matrix of what was then self-consciously Christendom, as we can see reflected in Locke’s key remarks in his second essay on civil government:

[2nd Treatise on Civil Gov’t, Ch 2 sec. 5:] . . . if I cannot but wish to receive good, even as much at every man’s hands, as any man can wish unto his own soul, how should I look to have any part of my desire herein satisfied, unless myself be careful to satisfy the like desire which is undoubtedly in other men . . . my desire, therefore, to be loved of my equals in Nature, as much as possible may be, imposeth upon me a natural duty of bearing to themward fully the like affection. From which relation of equality between ourselves and them that are as ourselves, what several rules and canons natural reason hath drawn for direction of life no man is ignorant . . . [This directly echoes St. Paul in Rom 2: “14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them . . . “ and 13: “9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law . . . “ Hooker then continues, citing Aristotle in The Nicomachean Ethics, Bk 8:] as namely, That because we would take no harm, we must therefore do none; That since we would not be in any thing extremely dealt with, we must ourselves avoid all extremity in our dealings; That from all violence and wrong we are utterly to abstain, with such-like . . . ] [Eccl. Polity ,preface, Bk I, “ch.” 8, p.80, cf. here. Emphasis added.] [Augmented citation, Locke, Second Treatise on Civil Government, Ch 2 Sect. 5. ]

Hence, too, the power of Plato’s warning in The Laws, Book X:

Ath[enian Stranger, in The Laws, Bk X 2,360 ya]. . . . [The avant garde philosophers and poets, c. 360 BC] say that fire and water, and earth and air [i.e the classical “material” elements of the cosmos — the natural order], all exist by nature and chance, and none of them by art . . . [such that] all that is in the heaven, as well as animals and all plants, and all the seasons come from these elements, not by the action of mind, as they say, or of any God, or from art, but as I was saying, by nature and chance only [ –> that is, evolutionary materialism is ancient and would trace all things to blind chance and mechanical necessity] . . . . [Thus, they hold] that the principles of justice have no existence at all in nature, but that mankind are always disputing about them and altering them; and that the alterations which are made by art and by law have no basis in nature, but are of authority for the moment and at the time at which they are made.-

[ –> Relativism, too, is not new; complete with its radical amorality rooted in a worldview that has no foundational IS that can ground OUGHT, leading to an effectively arbitrary foundation only for morality, ethics, law and government: accident of personal preference, the ebbs and flows of power politics, accidents of history and and the shifting sands of manipulated community opinion driven by “winds and waves of doctrine and the cunning craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming . . . ” cf a video on Plato’s parable of the cave; from the perspective of pondering who set up the manipulative shadow-shows, why.]

These, my friends, are the sayings of wise men, poets and prose writers, which find a way into the minds of youth. They are told by them that the highest right is might,

[ –> Evolutionary materialism — having no IS that can properly ground OUGHT — leads to the promotion of amorality on which the only basis for “OUGHT” is seen to be might (and manipulation: might in “spin”), opening the door to cynicism, hyperskepticism and nihilism . . . ]

and in this way the young fall into impieties, under the idea that the Gods are not such as the law bids them imagine; and hence arise factions [ –> Evolutionary materialism-motivated amorality “naturally” leads to continual contentions and power struggles influenced by that amorality at the hands of ruthless power hungry nihilistic agendas], these philosophers inviting them to lead a true life according to nature, that is,to live in real dominion over others [ –> such amoral and/or nihilistic factions, if they gain power, “naturally” tend towards ruthless abuse and arbitrariness . . . they have not learned the habits nor accepted the principles of mutual respect, justice, fairness and keeping the civil peace of justice, so they will want to deceive, manipulate and crush — as the consistent history of radical revolutions over the past 250 years so plainly shows again and again], and not in legal subjection to them [–> nihilistic will to power not the spirit of justice and lawfulness].

Hitler and co, also, Lenin, Stalin, Mao and co, have underscored the force of this over the past century. If we are instead to find a road of sound reformation, we would be well advised to look elsewhere. Wiberforce, for example, or Knibb, or Booth.

But then, that is always a challenge, one compounded enormously in a highly ideologised, deeply polarised increasingly radically secularist age. Such does not bode well, but we need to at least be aware before the needless storm. END

F/N, U/D Aug 8: Please please please falsify this message . . . if true this is beyond ridiculous:

U/D, 2:30 pm, Status, essentially confirmed. It is clear that there is unwillingness to recognise how abuse-prone such a system is.

F/N2: The hate behind the attack on Christians gathering in families for prayer is blatant:

Particularly note the turnabout projection of hate, labelling by invidious association and assumption that the stigmatised scapegoats — this includes families with children forfeit basic rights. This, is red guard rioting.

F/N3: Interview with Andy Ngo on Antifa

F/N4, Aug 11, a reminder on the McFaul Colour Revolution framework and the SOCOM insurgency escalator. First, the US State Dept report and Congressional Archive on abuse of mail-in voting in Ukraine, 2004 — I extensively highlighted this last year:

Next, the framework:

Comments
OA94, imposition of censorship was part of the Reichstag Fire panic reaction. Censorship is an important issue and we need to realise that it is not just a state or state-church issue. Censorship power arises from domination, by one entity or by a collective, of main means of communication in a community or in an isolated sub-culture. Once that power is used to enforce an agenda, it undermines liberty, especially when the censored are being scapegoated and slandered/demonised as well as marginalised. In the case of the US, the poor state of defamation law opens doors to slander and demonisation. Further, the Comms Decency Act Sec 230 protection of key providers of Internet, intended to protect carriers, is being twisted into a shield for censorship feeding a politically correct agenda. Financial attacks on startup alternatives show, further, that go get your own network is a cynical lie. Holding carriers who turn censors accountable for messaging -- they are now publishers, not carriers -- is one step. I think providers of network services should be viewed and regulated as utilities also, and in certain cases should be broken up as monopolistic or cartel-oligopolistic. For a lot of software, I would switch to open source and run away from software as leased service models, including go Linux if possible. Those who represent communities liable to be attacked should emphasise network security and freedom of association from the outset of their communication and networking strategies. Where possible, use your own server racks and open source alternatives to host your networks and services, forming an Intranet, with managed external access. I would very carefully limit bandwidth-heavy services, esp video. And there is here a role for print newsletters, newspapers and magazines. Similarly, consider creating online based education alternatives, at least as a supplement. And so forth. Times are hard and are liable to get worse. KFkairosfocus
August 6, 2021
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KF ,” I suggest that this thread has a different focus, lessons to be learned from how a notorious dictator seized power. KF” Starting with the Reichstag Fire, the subsequent Reichstag Decree and there is another disturbing parallel to what is going on in the US to Hitlers Germany which has to do with the police. One could say that without exaggeration that he effectively “defunded” local police forces. Although we have not yet seen the implementation of “ the enabling act” we are dangerously close to some kind of Americanized version of it. The unconstitutional infringement on property rights ( eviction moratorium), free speech, etc is what totalitarians traffic in. Vividvividbleau
August 5, 2021
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Sev, it is clear what a forensic audit is, and that nothing will ever satisfy the party that began an ugly campaign of accusations and utter radicalisation in 2015, capitalising on rioting and Red Guardism across last year, calling for outright abolition of police, a campaign which continues unabated; so-called bipartisanship is dead. (That is itself a revealing public fact about lawlessness.) So, that is self-disqualifying. Now that what such an audit is is settled . . . including that such seeks to create courtroom ready findings, I suggest that this thread has a different focus, lessons to be learned from how a notorious dictator seized power. KF PS: Observation was repeatedly, on public record frustrated, and in some cases was worse than merely token. That too is part of the evidence that was locked out last year.kairosfocus
August 5, 2021
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William J Murray/37
A forensic audit – whether of financial records or of a vote – is an audit that is conducted by an independent investigator for the purpose of establishing and collecting evidence that is admissible in a court of law, in case evidence of wrongdoing is found.
The problem with a forensic audit in such a deeply-divided partisan political environment would be to find an "independent investigator" that would be acceptable to both of the contending political parties. We have seen that Trump will simply reject any finding that is not acceptable to him and he is not alone. It would be easy enough for either side to challenge the objectivity and impartiality of the investigator. It wouldn't matter if they couldn't provide evidence to support such allegations, their mere existence would be more than enough to convince their followers of the truth of the claims, as we have seen with claims of widespread electoral fraud at the ballot counts. The presence of partisan observers didn't prevent such claims, nor could they if some of those observers were prepared to lie about what they saw. Do you doubt that their are more than enough who believe in 'no smoke without fire' my party/leader right or wrong who would do that? The real danger is that if there is no means of independent investigation and adjudication of such claims which can command bipartisan support, there is only one obvious alternative.Seversky
August 5, 2021
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I just added an image of the Reichstag Fire, we need an iconkairosfocus
August 5, 2021
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Bob O'H said:
Ah, WJM, you mean an independent audit.
No, Bob, I mean a forensic audit. That's why I used that term in my question: "How can any reasonable person make that claim absent widespread forensic audits of the vote?" That's why I explained to you what a forensic audit was, and what the purpose of a forensic audit is. Were you unclear what I meant after I explained what "forensic audit" meant? So my question remains: were the audits you referred to forensic audits? If not, how can they be considered to be a credible perspective about whether or not criminal fraud occurred?William J Murray
August 5, 2021
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Jerry “In Arizona they did but the results have not been published yet. Maybe it will uphold the election there.” I live in Arizona, Maricopa County refuses to comply with subpoenas issued by the state legislature. Vividvividbleau
August 5, 2021
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I think the biggest red flag for me is the willingness of "Big Tech" to go along with squelching any conversation about fraud. Twitter banned the official auditor account in Arizona, for example. If there is nothing to fear, then no one will lose anything by allowing this thing to exhaust itself. If there was no fraud, then let those crying fraud be proved as frauds themselves. The best disinfecting agents, time and sunlight, will establish the facts in the end. I, for one, sincerely hope there was no fraud. I hate to think about the prospects of living in a land where my vote is meaningless and powerful and well-heeled forces override our republican foundations.OldArmy94
August 5, 2021
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F/N: Where this predictably goes:
It is not too hard to figure out that our civilisation is in deep trouble and is most likely headed for shipwreck. (And of course, that sort of concern is dismissed as “apocalyptic,” or neurotic pessimism that refuses to pause and smell the roses.) Plato’s Socrates spoke to this sort of situation, long since, in the ship of state parable in The Republic, Bk VI:
>>[Soc.] I perceive, I said, that you are vastly amused at having plunged me into such a hopeless discussion; but now hear the parable, and then you will be still more amused at the meagreness of my imagination: for the manner in which the best men are treated in their own States is so grievous that no single thing on earth is comparable to it; and therefore, if I am to plead their cause, I must have recourse to fiction, and put together a figure made up of many things, like the fabulous unions of goats and stags which are found in pictures. Imagine then a fleet or a ship in which there is a captain [–> often interpreted, ship’s owner] who is taller and stronger than any of the crew, but he is a little deaf and has a similar infirmity in sight, and his knowledge of navigation is not much better. [= The people own the community and in the mass are overwhelmingly strong, but are ill equipped on the whole to guide, guard and lead it] The sailors are quarrelling with one another about the steering – every one is of opinion that he has a right to steer [= selfish ambition to rule and dominate], though he has never learned the art of navigation and cannot tell who taught him or when he learned, and will further assert that it cannot be taught, and they are ready to cut in pieces any one who says the contrary. They throng about the captain, begging and praying him to commit the helm to them [–> kubernetes, steersman, from which both cybernetics and government come in English]; and if at any time they do not prevail, but others are preferred to them, they kill the others or throw them overboard [ = ruthless contest for domination of the community], and having first chained up the noble captain’s senses with drink or some narcotic drug [ = manipulation and befuddlement, cf. the parable of the cave], they mutiny and take possession of the ship and make free with the stores; thus, eating and drinking, they proceed on their voyage in such a manner as might be expected of them [–> Cf here Luke’s subtle case study in Ac 27]. Him who is their partisan and cleverly aids them in their plot for getting the ship out of the captain’s hands into their own whether by force or persuasion [–> Nihilistic will to power on the premise of might and manipulation making ‘right’ ‘truth’ ‘justice’ ‘rights’ etc], they compliment with the name of sailor, pilot, able seaman, and abuse the other sort of man, whom they call a good-for-nothing; but that the true pilot must pay attention to the year and seasons and sky and stars and winds, and whatever else belongs to his art, if he intends to be really qualified for the command of a ship, and that he must and will be the steerer, whether other people like or not-the possibility of this union of authority with the steerer’s art has never seriously entered into their thoughts or been made part of their calling. Now in vessels which are in a state of mutiny and by sailors who are mutineers, how will the true pilot be regarded? Will he not be called by them a prater, a star-gazer, a good-for-nothing? [Ad.] Of course, said Adeimantus. [Soc.] Then you will hardly need, I said, to hear the interpretation of the figure, which describes the true philosopher in his relation to the State [ --> here we see Plato's philosoppher-king emerging]; for you understand already. [Ad.] Certainly. [Soc.] Then suppose you now take this parable to the gentleman who is surprised at finding that philosophers have no honour in their cities; explain it to him and try to convince him that their having honour would be far more extraordinary. [Ad.] I will. [Soc.] Say to him, that, in deeming the best votaries of philosophy to be useless to the rest of the world, he is right; but also tell him to attribute their uselessness to the fault of those who will not use them, and not to themselves. The pilot should not humbly beg the sailors to be commanded by him –that is not the order of nature; neither are ‘the wise to go to the doors of the rich’ –the ingenious author of this saying told a lie –but the truth is, that, when a man is ill, whether he be rich or poor, to the physician he must go, and he who wants to be governed, to him who is able to govern. [--> the issue of competence and character as qualifications to rule] The ruler who is good for anything ought not to beg his subjects to be ruled by him [ --> down this road lies the modern solution: a sound, well informed people will seek sound leaders, who will not need to manipulate or bribe or worse, and such a ruler will in turn be checked by the soundness of the people, cf. US DoI, 1776]; although the present governors of mankind are of a different stamp; they may be justly compared to the mutinous sailors, and the true helmsmen to those who are called by them good-for-nothings and star-gazers. [Ad.] Precisely so, he said. [Soc] For these reasons, and among men like these, philosophy, the noblest pursuit of all, is not likely to be much esteemed by those of the opposite faction [--> the sophists, the Demagogues, Alcibiades and co, etc]; not that the greatest and most lasting injury is done to her by her opponents, but by her own professing followers, the same of whom you suppose the accuser to say, that the greater number of them are arrant rogues, and the best are useless; in which opinion I agreed [--> even among the students of the sound state (here, political philosophy and likely history etc.), many are of unsound motivation and intent, so mere education is not enough, character transformation is critical]. [Ad.] Yes. [Soc.] And the reason why the good are useless has now been explained? [Ad.] True. [Soc.] Then shall we proceed to show that the corruption of the majority is also unavoidable [--> implies a need for a corruption-restraining minority providing proverbial salt and light, cf. Ac 27, as well as justifying a governing structure turning on separation of powers, checks and balances], and that this is not to be laid to the charge of philosophy any more than the other? [Ad.] By all means. [Soc.] And let us ask and answer in turn, first going back to the description of the gentle and noble nature.[ -- > note the character issue] Truth, as you will remember, was his leader, whom he followed always and in all things [ --> The spirit of truth as a marker]; failing in this, he was an impostor, and had no part or lot in true philosophy [--> the spirit of truth is a marker, for good or ill] . . . >>
(There is more than an echo of this in Acts 27, a real world case study. [Luke, a physician, was an educated Greek with a taste for subtle references.] This blog post, on soundness in policy, will also help)
Sounds familiar? KFkairosfocus
August 5, 2021
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An example of changing the US form of government by fiat not by votes
It's hard to overstate what a momentous change this is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9alsxM8SOM
Trump’s supporters had the opportunity to monitor the audits.
No they didn’t. That is the issue. In Arizona they did but the results have not been published yet. Maybe it will uphold the election there.jerry
August 5, 2021
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Ah, WJM, you mean an independent audit. I think the approach in the US is to have the audits open to observers, so partisans on both sides can observe and see if there are any irregularities. This has the advantages that (a) it encourages the auditors to stick to the rules, and (b) sidesteps questions over the independence of the auditors. Ultimately the audit should be accurate and fair, so I think that is more important than whether it was independent. So I don't know if any were independent, but Trump's supporters had the opportunity to monitor the audits.Bob O'H
August 5, 2021
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They had the images of ballots that were exactly the same, with the exactsame twirls of the pen. Obviously duplicate fraud votes. And then there was the pattern, of first a massive dump of votes for Biden, and then dozens of batches of votes after that, with the exact same percentage for Trump and Biden each. The USA election was a fraud. The USA is not actually a representative republic doing the will of the people. The people of the USA do not want an open southern border. Do not want critical race theory. Yet the government, does these things, by cheating at the elections. Also censorship, media manipulation, and using the government agencies to persecute political dissent. It is just the same what socialists do in every other country.mohammadnursyamsu
August 5, 2021
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F/N: Let's continue the expose, the turn-speech, turnabout projection tactic. While Hitler, Goebbels et al used many, many devious manipulative techniques, two are outstanding. Already, we pointed to the big lie (too big to be false), drummed in through repetition. We also hinted at the other, projection to the despised other, often through turn-speech, turnabout projection. Notice, in Hitler's and Goebbels' discussions, it is the Jews, the Bolsheviks, the British who are being held up as big liars. No, no, not poor, innocent, stabbed in the back Germany. This already draws out an effect of turnabout projection, it creates the impression that the accuser is a victim with a legitimate grand complaint. So, in all justice, the victim needs to defend himself. This is the he hit back first effect. With the Reichstag Fire incident, it was a Communist conspiracy to burn down the very symbol of Germany's democratic experiment. So, in the emergency, revert to the ancient Roman practice, dictatorship. A second facet is, blunting cognitive dissonance through blaming a seemingly demonic scapegoat. A subtler effect is tainting and polarisation, the accused other is dragged down into the mud and even if one has questions about the claims, the toxic, confusing, polarising cloud taints all it touches. Such of course sets up the next accusation. And the one after that, too. Multiply by censorship and intimidation, and soon, it is all but impossible to have honest, sober minded, serious, fact and logic based discussion. So, the trick is to avoid going down that road in the first instance. But once that has begun, the best we can do is to expose it and insist on responsible discussion. Insisting, on getting history-anchored background clear and sorting through what is morally certain, what is so on balance of probabilities, what is speculative, what is false or error, what is slander, what is scapegoating, etc. Not easy but necessary. KFkairosfocus
August 5, 2021
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BO'H: we were all watching and saw how the courts took every trick and stunt to block bringing evidence into court; that this was then spun as failing on hearing speaks. Further to this, audits go far beyond financials as well you know; as "forensic" implies, such would be towards court-worthy evidence, given indicators of wrong doing. The fundamental matter remains, a willfully fraud conducive system speaks for itself. Beyond a certain point, fatal disaffection will be triggered, but then key factions of the global elites seem to imagine they can get along well enough without the US Navy. Big mistake. China's blue ocean breakout push, a part of this, will only lead to Japan assembling and mounting nukes, S Korea going nuke, Taiwan too, likewise Australia, possibly Singapore. Add in India and Pakistan with Iran and see if that does not point straight to nuclear war. KF PS: I continue to notice that the usual objectors refuse to touch the Reichstag fire incident and its implications as a warning from history with a ten foot insulated pole. I ask yet again, why is this not part of our common fund of key moments of history? After all, this is how a democracy was subverted and turned into a destructive, demonic dictatorship.kairosfocus
August 5, 2021
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Bob O'H said:
WJM – a forensic audit seems to be an audit of financial records, so I’m not sure what your point is.
A forensic audit - whether of financial records or of a vote - is an audit that is conducted by an independent investigator for the purpose of establishing and collecting evidence that is admissible in a court of law, in case evidence of wrongdoing is found. An internal audit is when the people in charge of the financial records or the officers and personnel in charge of collecting and tallying the votes conduct the audit themselves. If fraud was committed, or is suspected of being committed, by the officers and personnel in charge, you can clearly see the problem posed by any internal audit. The reason why forensic audits are done is to restore or establish trust that the process was not subject to internal fraud or mishandling, and to ensure the evidential and investigatory process used, and those who perform the audit, are qualified to investigate, collect and handle any evidence of criminal activity. Internal auditors may or may not be trained or qualified for this aspect of a forensic audit. So, when an internal audit is conducted by people that may be covering their own crimes or have a conflict of interest if they find problems, how are we supposed to trust that process? Furthermore, internal audits are not designed to find, follow up on, or collect evidence of criminal activity because they are not being done by an outside, third party agency trained and qualified to do exactly that. So, when you say "There have been audits and no evidence of widespread fraud has been found," that claim has no valid basis by which to make that assessment unless they were forensic audits. So, the question I posed is crucial: were the audits you speak of forensic audits? If not, they have nothing whatsoever to say about whether or not there was fraud, much less "widespread fraud."William J Murray
August 5, 2021
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WJM - a forensic audit seems to be an audit of financial records, so I'm not sure what your point is. ET - you didn't answer my question. kf - your "serious testimony" was tested in court and failed. Basically, outside of the Trumposphere almost nobody thinks they are serious. That includes William Barr, Trump's own AG.Bob O'H
August 5, 2021
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Mass media has destroyed the minds of many. We are reaping the benefits. Andrewasauber
August 5, 2021
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The USA now how a puppet with dementia as our PoTUS. So, again, it is easy to see why sane people are crying fraud over the 2020 election.ET
August 5, 2021
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BO'H, you neatly omitted the responsibilities of those who set up a system that was willfully conducive to fraud. There is in fact a considerable body of serious testimony and circumstantial evidence of such fraud, and the coordinated cessation of voting and linked switches in key states is a further outright signature. So, no, those pointing to the problem are not the cause3 of the problem. forensic audit is called for and seems to be going on in one location, facing . . . stonewalling, stonewalling that had this been Watergate, would have been 24/7 headlines. The dogs that are not barking are another sign, and yes that Holmes story was on an inside job. KFkairosfocus
August 5, 2021
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Bob O'H:
For those of you saying widespread fraud was quite clear, why did AG Barr dismiss the claims in December?
People can say anything, Bob. Barr didn't conduct any investigation at that point so his words at that time are meaningless. The democrats cried Russian collusion for 4 years, Bob. And they failed to find any evidence for it.
the actions of those pushing the fraud theory have eroded trust in the election, in officials from their own party, and in the courts.
You described the democrats from 2016 to 2020.ET
August 5, 2021
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Bob O'H: I asked:
How can any reasonable person make that claim absent widespread forensic audits of the vote?
You responded:
indeed, and there were several audits, which found no evidence of widespread fraud. This included going back to the paper ballots to check them.
Were those forensic audits? How many forensic audits have there been? I'm sure you know the difference between an internal audit and a forensic audit.William J Murray
August 5, 2021
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F/N: What it looks like when you are targetted with the process is the punishment: https://rumble.com/vkp4yf-part-4-dr.-simone-gold-exposes-the-severity-of-scientific-censorship.html KFkairosfocus
August 5, 2021
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WJM @ 26 - indeed, and there were several audits, which found no evidence of widespread fraud. This included going back to the paper ballots to check them. kf highlighted the issue of trust @ 24. This is a good example of it - the actions of those pushing the fraud theory have eroded trust in the election, in officials from their own party, and in the courts.Bob O'H
August 5, 2021
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WJM, I think you raise a key question, though the officials likely presumed a safe high integrity system that did not throw flags that seemed important to them. I see a deeply flawed system willfully conducive to fraud, starting with identification and chain of scrutineered custody issues. My second biggest concern, on mail in ballots, is actually tied to a report put in to Congress on the Ukraine, 15 years back or so. KFkairosfocus
August 5, 2021
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Vivid, sadly, you are right to raise your concerns. We need to soberly ponder the Reichstag Fire incident and what it can teach us. KFkairosfocus
August 5, 2021
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“you know: civil servants, the law courts, the Attorney General, have all been quite clear that there wasn’t widespread fraud”
How can any reasonable person make that claim absent widespread forensic audits of the vote?William J Murray
August 5, 2021
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BR, material fraud and trickery are notoriously on record with US elections, and this includes electoral college manipulations as in 1812 and 1876. You yourself note on 1960. Yes, the Electors bear particular responsibility as the general vote is actually a vote to set up said College. And yes, the College bears direct responsibility for whoever is elected by them, however, material fraud undermines whatever it taints, legally and as a matter of credibility. Technically, the US is not a Democracy but a Constitutional, Representative Republic, with democratic characteristics counterbalanced by safeguards. KF PS: At last, someone taught about some of the Reichstag incident. And yes the USSR struck a devil's bargain with Germany in 1939, also earlier on development of key military technologies such as tanks, aircraft and IIRC artillery, yes years before Hitler took power. It may not be a coincidence that both developed somewhat similar tank driven doctrines, Deep Battle formally, informally what we call Blitzkrieg. PPS: Yes, they likely would have ginned up something else later on once they had critical mass, the Reichstag Fire incident accelerated their rise to power. Don't forget, Hindenburg died about a year later.kairosfocus
August 5, 2021
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BO'H: Ms Horakova is an historical example of how the Reichstag fire style fakery can be ginned up and pushed through a corrupted legal and media system, in her case a horrific judicial murder on a false narrative of rebellion. The involvement of judges in that case is especially heinous and it is a warning on what is possible in a state that not many years before had a highly viable democratic government. (1938, was a bit over a decade before.) This is also emblematic of what specifically Communist states did and likely continue to do with show trials. This too is a case that should be before our eyes. KF PS: You will observe that I have not highlighted or speculated on personalities but on clear structural problems with the US elections system. Those problems red flag it as set up in ways that facilitate fraud. I note that in a high trust culture, the truly nihilistic can do a lot because many cannot bring themselves to believe what is happening, as the Reichstag fire incident demonstrates. And part of the damage done by such is to damage the cultural fabric of trust. Something that takes generations to build. What happens to a community when you can only half-trust close blood relatives and tested friends known since early childhood, all others are potential enemies likely trying to get an advantage at any price? Do you see the mutual ruin that flows from such? PPS: I add, I would cancel blackbox gadget driven elections [with inevitably questionable provenance and chain of custody], through and through, across the board. Transparency, in one word. Paper has a major advantage inasmuch as it is a physical artifact that reflects its specific history, which is open to forensic cross check, even a folding of paper is a unique, readable event. Optical scans with stored paper might work but I am aware of issues with sharpies. I favour microparticle laced inks that can have traceable lots. Much more can be said.kairosfocus
August 5, 2021
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I was taught the basics of the fire, but never the details that went into it. What I was not taught was the Soviet invasion of Poland. Despite the invasion occurring shortly after Germany, it is treated as if it never happened. Soviet and German troops met up as predesignated areas and advanced no further. Prisoner exchanges did take place between the two governments, including communist Jews who had fled the Nazis. Germany's invasion resulted in war being declared by European allies without a single word being spoken about the Soviet invasion.BobRyan
August 5, 2021
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A presidential election cannot be stolen. The Electors are free to vote for anyone they wish. The popular election is little more than a suggestion, but they remain free to vote for anyone they wish. States can try to pass laws locking in the electors, but it does not pass Constitutional muster. As for using fraud to influence the electors, that is what happened with Kennedy. The mafia rigged the election in Kennedy's favor. An earlier attempt was the election of 1876, when the Democrats tried to steal the election from Hayes to give it to Tilden. They threatened to renew the war if the Republicans did not give them what they wanted. The agreement to end Reconstruction was the result of negotiations that kept the country from returning to a state of war.BobRyan
August 5, 2021
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