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Logic and First Principles, 7: The problem of fallacies vs credible warrant

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When we deal with deeply polarised topics such as ID, we face the problem of well-grounded reasoning vs fallacies. A fallacy being a significantly persuasive but fundamentally misleading argument, often as an error of reasoning. (Cf. a classic collection here.) However, too often, fallacies are deliberately used by clever rhetors to mislead the unwary. Likewise we face the challenge of how much warrant is needed for an argument to be credible.

All of these are logical challenges.

Let us note IEP, as just linked:

A fallacy is a kind of error in reasoning. The list of fallacies below contains 224 names of the most common fallacies, and it provides brief explanations and examples of each of them. Fallacies should not be persuasive, but they often are. Fallacies may be created unintentionally, or they may be created intentionally in order to deceive other people. The vast majority of the commonly identified fallacies involve arguments, although some involve explanations, or definitions, or other products of reasoning. Sometimes the term “fallacy” is used even more broadly to indicate any false belief or cause of a false belief. The list below includes some fallacies of these sorts, but most are fallacies that involve kinds of errors made while arguing informally in natural language.
An informal fallacy is fallacious because of both its form and its content. The formal fallacies are fallacious only because of their logical form. For example, the Slippery Slope Fallacy has the following form: Step 1 often leads to step 2. Step 2 often leads to step 3. Step 3 often leads to … until we reach an obviously unacceptable step, so step 1 is not acceptable. That form occurs in both good arguments and fallacious arguments. The quality of an argument of this form depends crucially on the probabilities. Notice that the probabilities involve the argument’s content, not merely its form.

This focus on probabilistic aspects of informal fallacies brings out several aspects of the problem, for we often deal with empirical evidence and inductive reasoning rather than direct chained deductions. For deductive arguments, a chain is no stronger than the weak link, and if that link cannot be fixed, the whole argument fails to support the conclusion.

However, inductive arguments work on a different principle. Probability estimates, in a controversial context, will always be hotly contested. So, we must apply the rope principle: short, relatively weak individual fibres can be twisted together and then counter twisted as strands of a rope, giving a whole that is both long and strong.

Of chains, ropes and cumulative cases

For example, suppose that a given point has a 1% chance of being an error. Now, bring together ten mutually supportive points that sufficiently independently sustain the same conclusion. Odds that all ten are wrong in the same way are a lot lower. A simple calculation would be ([1 – 0.99]^10) ~10^-20. This is the basis of the classic observation that in the mouth of two or three independent witnesses, a word is established.

However, many will be inclined to set up a double-standard of warrant, an arbitrarily high one for conclusions they wish to reject vs a much softer one for those they are inclined to accept. Nowadays, this is often presented as “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.”

In fact, any claim simply requires adequate evidence.

Any demand for more than this cometh of evil.

This is of course the fallacy of selective hyperskepticism, a bane of discussions on ID topics. (The strength of will to reject can reach the level of dismissing logical-mathematical demonstration, often by finding some excuse to studiously ignore and side step as if it were not on the table.)

Of course, an objection will be: you are overly credulous. That is a claim, one that requires adequate warrant. Where, in fact, if one disbelieves what one should (per adequate warrant), that is as a rule because one also believes what one should not (per, lack of adequate warrant), which serves as a controlling belief. Where, if falsity is made the standard for accepting or rejecting claims, then the truth cannot ever be accepted, as it will run counter to the false.

All of this is seriously compounded by the tendency in a relativistic age to reduce truth to opinion, thence to personalise and polarise, often by implying fairly serious ad hominems. This can then be compounded by the “he hit back first” tactic.

This also raises the issue of the so-called concern troll. That is one who claims to support side A, but will always be found undermining it without adequate warrant, often using the tactics just noted. Such a persona in fact is enabling B by undermining A. This is a notorious agit prop tactic that works because it exploits passive aggressive behaviour patterns.

The answer to all of this is to understand how arguments work and how they fail to work, recognising the possibility of error and of participants who are in error (or are in worse than error) then focussing the merits of the case.

So, as we proceed, let us bear in mind the significance of adequate warrant, and the problem of selective hyperskepticism. END

PS: As it is relevant to the discussion that emerged, let me lay out the path to intellectual decay of our civilisation, adapting Schaeffer:

Extending (and correcting) Schaeffer’s vision of the course of western thought, worldviews and culture, C1 – 21

H’mm: Geostrategic picture:

As Scuzzaman highlights the slippery slope ratchet, let me put up the Overton Window (in the context of a ratchet that is steadily cranking it leftward on the usual political spectrum) — where, fallacies are used to create a Plato’s cave shadow-show world in which decision-making becomes ever more irrational, out of contact with reality:

Likewise, here is a model of malinvestment-led, self-induced economic disaster due to foolishly tickling a dragon’s tail and pushing an economy into unsustainable territory, building on Hayek:

Let me add, a view of the alternative political dynamics and spectrum:

U/d b for clarity, nb Nil

PPS: Mobius strip cut 1/2 way vs 1/3 way across vid:

Comments
Math guy writes, “First, thank you for conceding that “prime number” may be a universal mathematical concept.” I have never denied anything that would imply that other intelligent beings in the universe wouldn’t discover the same fundamental math that we have developed, so I don’t think I’ve conceded anything by pointing out that aliens could broadcast their existence by sending a sequence of the first 100 primes. But that is different than saying that math concepts live in some Platonic world that is independent of minds of individual intelligent beings. Primes are “universal” in the sense that any intelligent being in the universe who started with the very basics of number theory (the unit and its successors) would develop them and discover properties about them. However, that doesn’t mean, in my view, that therefore they are “universal” in a Platonic sense. The issue still is where do universals or abstraction exist. I think they exist in the minds of individual human beings (or other intelligent beings) and in the shared symbol systems that we have developed, but not independently in some eternal realm. I think this is a philosophical belief that really can’t be resolved, and that neither Platonism nor my view can conclusively be said to be correct. The nature of my mind (this was the topic of the thread with Gpuucio) is unknown. I tend to accept what I can experience - my mind - and am reluctant to accept things I can’t experience - some universal mind or other home of concepts divorced from individual minds. So we should be clear about what I have “conceded” and what I have not.hazel
January 19, 2019
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MG, excellent input. KFkairosfocus
January 18, 2019
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H & SB: First, as a handy source, Wikipedia on trees:
In botany, a tree is a perennial plant with an elongated stem, or trunk, supporting branches and leaves in most species. In some usages, the definition of a tree may be narrower, including only woody plants with secondary growth, plants that are usable as lumber or plants above a specified height. Trees are not a taxonomic group but include a variety of plant species that have independently evolved a woody trunk and branches as a way to tower above other plants to compete for sunlight. Trees tend to be long-lived, some reaching several thousand years old. In wider definitions, the taller palms, tree ferns, bananas, and bamboos are also trees. Trees have been in existence for 370 million years. It is estimated that there are just over 3 trillion mature trees in the world.[1] A tree typically has many secondary branches supported clear of the ground by the trunk. This trunk typically contains woody tissue for strength, and vascular tissue to carry materials from one part of the tree to another. For most trees it is surrounded by a layer of bark which serves as a protective barrier. Below the ground, the roots branch and spread out widely; they serve to anchor the tree and extract moisture and nutrients from the soil. Above ground, the branches divide into smaller branches and shoots. The shoots typically bear leaves, which capture light energy and convert it into sugars by photosynthesis, providing the food for the tree's growth and development. Trees usually reproduce using seeds. Flowers and fruit may be present, but some trees, such as conifers, instead have pollen cones and seed cones. Palms, bananas, and bamboos also produce seeds, but tree ferns produce spores instead . . . . Although "tree" is a term of common parlance, there is no universally recognised precise definition of what a tree is, either botanically or in common language.[2] In its broadest sense, a tree is any plant with the general form of an elongated stem, or trunk, which supports the photosynthetic leaves or branches at some distance above the ground.[3] Trees are also typically defined by height,[4] with smaller plants from 0.5 to 10 m (1.6 to 32.8 ft) being called shrubs,[5] so the minimum height of a tree is only loosely defined.[4] Large herbaceous plants such as papaya and bananas are trees in this broad sense.[2][6] A commonly applied narrower definition is that a tree has a woody trunk formed by secondary growth, meaning that the trunk thickens each year by growing outwards, in addition to the primary upwards growth from the growing tip.[4][7] Under such a definition, herbaceous plants such as palms, bananas and papayas are not considered trees regardless of their height, growth form or stem girth. Certain monocots may be considered trees under a slightly looser definition;[8] while the Joshua tree, bamboos and palms do not have secondary growth and never produce true wood with growth rings,[9][10] they may produce "pseudo-wood" by lignifying cells formed by primary growth.[11] Aside from structural definitions, trees are commonly defined by use; for instance, as those plants which yield lumber.[12]
In short, there is a difference between how an individual or culture forms a particular conception of trees through examples and family resemblance and the underlying archetype accessed thereby which allows us to recognise and agree that some new entity X is a tree. Where of course in many Sci Fi "universes" encounters with fictional worlds often lead to identification of new trees. Treeness is so commonly recognised that it is a commonplace metaphor. We speak of tree diagrams, forked branches in a road and the like. Now, too, a subtlety lurks, leading to errors of reasoning. It is obvious that we see a contrast between how we may have a precise definition of a triangle and how we may have never seen a tree (I suppose Eskimos beyond the tree line, desert dwellers and possibly people who are so urbanised that they have only an extreme form of concrete jungle to refer to -- though, such will doubtless encounter wood.) We see here the apparent injection of subjectivism and relativism (as well as linked aspects of constructivism), likely intended as a challenge to undermine the concept of a distinct identity with core characteristics, some in common with other entities, some particular to the given class. Definitions, of course, are seen as imposed by the community of relevant experts, who may consult with experience and community usage or views -- hence, dictionaries and their encyclopedia cousins. Individual or community experience it is suggested, leads to particular conceptions, which need not overlap. The underlying thesis is, we are dealing with notions we form as concepts and labels we impose individually and collectively. Nominalism, without having to call and defend that failed name. Immediately, notice how we have an argument here, implying a generally known duty to truth, right reason, prudence, justice, fairness etc. Thus, to logic, first principles of right reason, and to truth as a relationship between what we assert and reality that is independent of and ontologically prior to our opinions about it. Which brings up propositions as asserted truth/falsity claims. Where, all of these are essentially abstract. Illustrating, the primary objection to nominalism: it instantly radically undermines itself by being forced to assume, use and refer to the reality of precisely the abstracta, universals, categories/classes, archetypes, in-common and distinct characteristics, identity, etc it would deny and dismiss. So, I again put up the challenge: state the definition and core case for nominalism without so appealing to the abstracta one wishes to rule out: ________ I confidently predict, it cannot be done, as we are here dealing with pervasive first principles of rationality which we cannot prove as to try to prove must use same; but which we must presume true in order to function as rationally and responsibly free thinking creatures. I also predict, this core point will most likely again be side-steped and studiously ignored by objectors. Thus, we see how the argument tends to deadlock. Going back to triangles and trees. We must distinguish between how we -- creatures of bounded rationality who are error-prone but can know some things (e.g. "error exists") to utter certainty, who are morally struggling (facing the existential is-ought gap) and too often become polarised, ideologically blinded and ill-willed (but can deal in good faith) -- experience, infer and opine and that which is objective knowledge. Where, knowledge can be taken in the softer, broader sense: well-warranted, reliable, credibly true belief . . . which is subject to rational and/or empirical inspection and in principle correction. Where, degree of credibility of truth comes in degrees, from that delivered by inductive cases which cannot confer incorrigible certainty (common in science and day to day life) to that which is self-evidently, incorrigibly, undeniably true. For example, we experience ourselves as conscious, and that bare fact is incorrigibly true -- we cannot be in error of the fact, once we experience it, support by experience and self-reflective observation is here certain. Likewise, it is undeniably true that error exists (proposition E) as that which intends to refer to truth but fails. Simply contrasting E with ~E leads to: ~E = it is an error to assert, "error exists." That error exists is undeniable, self-evidently true. It forms a case of truth to absolute certainty which is knowable to us. Worldviews, ideologies, arguments and notions that pivot on discrediting or dismissing truth, knowledge to utter certainty, reducing truth to opinion, relativising or subjectivising knowledge etc are all swept away by this demonstrative test case. They are all failed, grand fallacies that unfortunately haunt and mislead our world today. We exorcise thee, we exorcise thee, we exorcise thee and banish thee to the ash-heap of corrected errors. Begone, grand fallacies, begone! So, now, we have already established that for a distinct world to be, the set N of counting numbers must exist, that set being {0,1,2,3 . . . }, which is in turn a necessary entity, both the numbers within and the collecting set being objective. Where, what a counting number is, can be generally accessed as an abstract, rationally discernible entity. As opposed to a mere label. Well do I recall my second father [God rest him] painting on a fence as I conversed about what I had been learning and showed a picture I had drawn. He was painting in yellow and dotted in the missing Sun. Soon, the topic was, counting. So, count, The tens came up, I was helped to see twen-ty, thir-ty . . seven-ty . . . Then, I said, "ten-ty." I recognised the archetype, but did not have the culturally recognised label: "one hundred." I further generalised two things: X-hundreds and on hitting the tenth in succession, expect a new label, here, thousands. I was accessing archetypes and culturally influenced, English Language decimal system numerals, labels. Years later, I encountered the approximation pi = 22/7, and was mis-taught. I recall writing out the recurring decimal many times, noting the repeating block that emerges. Subsequently, Geometry class taught me a better understanding. Eventually, I would learn the transcendental, irrational nature and how a transfinite power series approaches it in the limit. We cannot fully write it as a decimal but we know it is definite, it is there. It is locked into properties of circles, abstract figures in an abstract space that we represent with our sketches. Where, it is manifest in gear-trains, starting with those I saw in toy cars and fishing reels. Bicycle chain drives, too. Embedded, necessarily, in any possible world. Trees are different. These are radically contingent beings that exist in at least one possible world-state, but will not exist in at least one possible world. Indeed, did not exist on our planet at some point in the past. However, they do form, reflecting certain patterns that lead to the framework as described. We may imperfectly grasp the concept, must recognise its fuzzy borders, and yet we see there is an underlying archetype in a branching tree-chain (see, metaphorical usage): entity --> . . .plant --> . . . tree --> . . . guava trees, coconut trees, tree ferns . . . Where, a pear has woody tissue in it (the gritty substance we notice), bamboo grasses also form a variety of wood, bananas have tree forms similar enough that if a coconut palm is a tree, so is the banana tree. There is something suspiciously like wood in key parts of a banana plant -- e.g. the stem that suspends the bunch, which we routinely cut with a machete but can saw off instead. Other plants, such as the pineapple, do not form trees. Mushrooms are not trees. Bamboo forms a woody stem (sufficient to create timber) but is clearly a grass, not a typical tree. Bananas have an unusual stem, which is not particularly woody, more like compressed leaves but I don't doubt it could be turned into a timber -- or a rope. Coconut logs can be used as timber and the woody stems and "bones" of their fronds -- leaves -- definitely are -- improvised cricket bats and kite frameworks come to mind. In the Caribbean, one then graduates to bamboo kites. I remember being intrigued to see kites sold in shops that used more typical timbers. Papaya stems are clearly woody but not particularly strong -- likely, they could make strings and ropes. Elephant grass is disappointingly weak for making fishing poles etc. Tree ferns I have seen across the Caribbean definitely have a sturdy-looking woody character, I have never handled their timber . . .h'mm, I just saw Amazon selling tree fern wood panels for use in specialty plant growing. I believe they are regarded as rare and are protected. I would suggest that various shrubs are miniature, naturally occurring perennials that may take tree form but are small -- I have harvested wood and used it from such, much as from an immature full-size tree. Some plants may form vines or trees depending, and more. The tree form entity is abstract, and in our world, we first encountered roots, trunks, branches or fronds etc in plants. The labels were taken from those cases and have been extended to many other things, such as classification trees. So, there are relevant archetypes and we may distinguish contexts and cases that show themselves to be sufficiently analogous. KFkairosfocus
January 18, 2019
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My point being that the existence of abstract universals does not necessarily depend on every human, most humans, or even a single human being able to recognize such a universal. "If a tree falls in the forest with no humans nearby, did it make a sound?" Before Haken and Appel wrote their computer assisted proof, was the Four Color Theorem false?math guy
January 18, 2019
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h@213 says "how about the aliens who send us the first 100 prime numbers to prove there is intelligent life elsewhere, but live on a planet where there is nothing resembling a tree at all. Prime number may be a universal mathematical concept, but “tree” really can’t be in the same way." First, thank you for conceding that "prime number" may be a universal mathematical concept. Have you considered that there might actually be a precise specification for "tree" ? For instance certain DNA, AA, and/or metabolic pathways could be necessary and sufficient conditions for "tree" . Such a specification could be beyond the intellectual grasp of any given human (sans computer), but Goedel's theorems imply that there are precisely defined mathematical results beyond the intellectual grasp of any given human. In fact, the proof of the Four Color Theorem is a likely candidate. Most people can grasp the conclusion of the theorem but the only known proofs require brute force resolution of thousands of cases impossible to verify without a computer. The analogy to "tree" could be similar. We all recognize "tree" but are incapable of expressing or understanding its precise (hypothetical) recipe.math guy
January 18, 2019
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Stephen writes,
However, your conception of a tree (the universal concept) is the same for everyone.
I don't think I see it that way, but there probably isn't anything more to say about the issue. Thanks for the input, though.hazel
January 18, 2019
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Hazel:
Thanks, Stephen. This leaves me with questions. As you said earlier, right triangles have a precise definition so that everyone who knows that definition will have the same concept – a universal concept of right triangle.
The key idea is that the universal notion of a right triangle—the concept—tells us what it is. The sense experience of a particular right triangle (such as one in which the right angle is on the left side and is the size of a house) does not qualify as a concept because it doesn’t inform us about what we are experiencing. Since not everyone knows the meaning of a right triangle, we must define it to make things clear. We don’t need to define tree as a universal concept because everyone already knows what it is.
But “tree” doesn’t have a universally shared precise definition. I have created an understanding of “treeness” based on my various experiences of trees where I live, but someone who lives in the Amazon has had significantly different experiences of trees, so his concept and mine are not identical. Therefore, I don’t see what “universal concept” of tree would mean.
Your experience of trees is different from everyone else’s because each particular tree is different in some way from every other tree. However, your conception of a tree (the universal concept) is the same as everyone else's. Similarly, and for the same reason, your conception of a dog or a cat is exactly the same as my conception, even though our experience with particular dogs or cats is varied. For that reason, you can say that a dog is not a cat [law of identity] and anyone who says that it is has made a false statement. Our reasoning process is, in large part, based on the existence of, and our understanding of, identities (essences) The knowing process begins with sensory experience (particular), but it ends in the mental concept of a universal produced through a process of abstraction. It is a matter of recognizing that all the trees that have been experienced belong to the same category of being. Even if one thing (shrub or bush) seems to resemble another thing in some way (tree), the very fact that you can make such distinctions indicates that all three categories of being exist and can be universally understood as such.StephenB
January 18, 2019
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The uncanny coincidence of "Ed George" and "acartia bogart" showing up on two different discussion forums just to spew some nonsense in my direction, is mind boggling. It never fails. Every time acartia is there, Ed is here. I know I have a response from Ed when I get one from acartia and vice versa. Amazing coincidences- daily even and even more than once a day. And all after acartia boasted of having pretend pro-ID sock puppets here...ET
January 18, 2019
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Ed George:
Universality does not deal with averages, it deals with totality.
It depends on the context, Ed. But then again you always have a problem with that word is used.ET
January 18, 2019
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ET
If you asked the average person, in their language, to point out a tree, they could do it.
Universality does not deal with averages, it deals with totality. There are people alive today who have never seen a tree.Ed George
January 18, 2019
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hazel:
Hey Ed, how about the aliens who send us the first 100 prime numbers to prove there is intelligent life elsewhere, but live on a planet where there is nothing resembling a tree at all.
Hey hazel, you really like erecting straw men. Do you live near a hay field? How are your allergies?ET
January 18, 2019
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Ed George:
I thought we were talking about the universality of “treeness”.
Such a thing doesn't include dead people.
How can it be universal if there were thousands of people over hundreds of generation who never saw a tree?
We can't ask them so that is a straw man. If you asked the average person, in their language, to point out a tree, they could do it. If you asked the average person, in their language, to point out a bush, they could do it. If you asked the average person, in their language, to point out a shrub, they could do it Ed wants to have a séance...ET
January 18, 2019
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Hey Ed, how about the aliens who send us the first 100 prime numbers to prove there is intelligent life elsewhere, but live on a planet where there is nothing resembling a tree at all. Prime number may be a universal mathematical concept, but "tree" really can't be in the same way.hazel
January 18, 2019
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ET
So what? Those people are dead and will not be participating. Do you have another fallacious argument to bring up? This is the thread.
I thought we were talking about the universality of “treeness”. How can it be universal if there were thousands of people over hundreds of generation who never saw a tree? Or bush? Or shrubbery?Ed George
January 18, 2019
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H, many concepts turn on archetypes or reference standards and degree of family resemblance. In a good fraction of such cases borders are fuzzy and there is no one size fits all and only precising definition, e.g. what is life. This does not mean that the core concepts do not exist and it does not imply that a Yanomami girl taken to Minnesota will not recognise that she sees trees in her new home. However, such is a further set of tangents in a context where even the exchanges on Mathematics are in significant part though they do help to concretely exemplify -- this moves towards ostensive definitions -- ways in which arguments can fail or can be pulled away from on tangents, or how actual warrant may be shunted aside, etc. All of this gives us a storm in a teacup scale view of some fairly serious trends in our civilisation. In my native land, a saying runs: fire deh 'pon mus-mus tail, but him think seh a cool breeze dere. The mouse may not perceive its real peril and may severely misunderstand dangers. This is why we really do need to get our thinking straightened out. KFkairosfocus
January 18, 2019
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Ed George:
Before the last century there were many people who have never seen a tree.
So what? Those people are dead and will not be participating. Do you have another fallacious argument to bring up? This is the thread. :PET
January 18, 2019
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Hazel
Sorry, Ed, I’ll try to lighten up! ????
All it will take is for KF to bring me a shrubbery. :)Ed George
January 18, 2019
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If you asked the average person, in their language, to point out a tree, they could do it.
Before the last century there were many people who have never seen a tree.Ed George
January 18, 2019
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I love how hazel sets up a straw man, rips it down and thinks something has been accomplished. If you asked the average person, in their language, to point out a tree, they could do it. If you asked the average person, in their language, to point out a bush, they could do it. If you asked the average person, in their language, to point out a shrub, they could do it NEXTET
January 18, 2019
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Sorry, Ed, I'll try to lighten up! :-)hazel
January 18, 2019
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Sorry, but Satan made me do it. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=69iB-xy0u4A The discussion was getting too serious. :)Ed George
January 18, 2019
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Kf, Stephen and I are talking about more than “numbers, shapes and the like” But you write, “Someone from Amazonia taken to say Finland will readily recognise trees there as trees.” I think it is not that simple. For instance, I have some Lonicera morrow in my backyard. This is technically a shrub, but the average person would might easily call it a small tree. Similarly, my guess is that Amazon natives have a variety of words to cover really big trees, small understory trees, shrubby trees, etc. I seriously doubt we and they and someone from Finland have categories that overlap exactly. There is not, I’m willing to bet, a universal clearcut category that all human beings, no matter where they live, would agree upon is a “tree”, as opposed to a “bush” or a”shrub”, for instance. The lack of a simple and clearcut definition of ”treeness” and the wide variety of experiences we have with different things that grow up out of the ground is why the concept of tree varies among people, and that there is no universal concept of “treeness”.hazel
January 18, 2019
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H, someone from Amazonia taken to say Finland will readily recognise trees there as trees. But in any case, we are dealing with numbers, shapes and the like. KFkairosfocus
January 18, 2019
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Thanks, Stephen. This leaves me with questions. As you said earlier, right triangles have a precise definition so that everyone who knows that definition will have the same concept - a universal concept of right triangle. But "tree" doesn't have a universally shared precise definition. I have created an understanding of "treeness" based on my various experiences of trees where I live, but someone who lives in the Amazon has had significantly different experiences of trees, so his concept and mine are not identical. Therefore, I don't see what "universal concept" of tree would mean. So, it's not the a matter of the sensory experience of a single tree, as that is not enough to create an abstraction, I don't think. But my abstract idea of "tree", formed from the experience of many trees, some of which are very different than other trees (or might not even be clearly a tree, as opposed to a bush or shrub, for instance), will not be the same as the guy in the Amazon. So in what sense is there a "universal concept" of tree when there is no logically precise definition, as there is with a right triangle, and the sensory experiences which inform our creation of the mental concept "tree" can be very different than someone else's? Thoughts on these questions?hazel
January 18, 2019
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SB: By concept, I mean an abstract idea that can be defined and known for what it is. If you mean something else, then we are not talking about the same thing.” Hazel:
How about the concept of “tree”? Does your sentence above apply?
Absolutely. You know what a tree is because you understand the universal concept of treeness. Without the intellectual concept of a universal, you would have only your sense impressions of a particular tree, which cannot inform you that all trees have something in common—their category of being. Your experience of an individual tree, its color, size, shape and so on, are the product of your sense impressions and cannot, without the aid of a universal concept, inform you about what it is you are experiencing.StephenB
January 18, 2019
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WJM, there is a difference between I don't like consequences or logical consequents and either a slippery slope with a ratchet heading for a cliff or a reduction to manifest absurdity or self-referential incoherence. For case in point p => q, But if there is excellent reason for ~q then ~p. So, what is the quality of your ~q, and what alternatives to p do you have that are credible and don't end up at q? KFkairosfocus
January 18, 2019
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KF, A similar case can be made for an appeal to consequences. It depends on the consequence. For example, I described your appeal to consequences as fallacious - perhaps, technically, it is, but the consequence in question would invalidate the entire line of reasoning if it was, in fact the only possible or most likely consequence. So, it was something that did require rebutting.William J Murray
January 18, 2019
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Forgot, my HP 50 offers the choice between commas and dots for the decimal marker. And, there is a choice of suspended vs on the line dots for writing. Do you close or open the 4? Loop the 2? Put the 7 half below the baseline? Use a crossbar on the 7? How do you write deltas? Do you use Newton's dashes and dots or dy/dx? Do you do a dot dx when you write an integral? How do you write zeta? Nu? Etc . . .kairosfocus
January 18, 2019
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That is very interesting, kairosfocus. Thanks for sharing.ET
January 18, 2019
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ET, I had several Indian profs. It was interesting to see how they wrote Indo-Arabic numerals, especially the cipher or zero, like a tiny "o" almost a dot. We might argue that binary digits are natural, but decimals are not. Duodecimals and sexagesimals, too. BTW, we see traces of that in time keeping, the foot and in angle measures. KFkairosfocus
January 18, 2019
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