Dr Raoult in his own voice on HCQ, with English sub-titles

_{kairosfocus

April 22, 2020

Academic Freedom, Defending our Civilization, Medicine, News Highlights, rhetoric, Sci-Tech watch}

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Jerry has again hit gold, and so here is Dr Didier Raoult, in his own voice, with English sub-titles:

https://youtu.be/Xhoi1JKjClk

Let us view and discuss. U/D: it will be helpful to take time to follow this video also, where others have a say.

(As time permits, I will put up some screen captures as updates below.)

Let us view and let us think together. END

F/N: Let me stack screen shots, first, who and what we are dealing with:

Next, the study:

Note, for reference, its approval:

Research protocol approved by the ANSM [= “Agence Nationale de Sécurité du Médicament et des Produits de Santé (ANSM)”, i.e. National Agency for the Safety of Medicines and Health Products] and the Île-de-France CPP [= “COMITE DE PROTECTION DES PERSONNES ILE DE FRANCE,” i.e. ILE DE FRANCE PERSONAL PROTECTION COMMITTEE] in progress at the IHU Méditerranée Infection: Treatment of respiratory infections with Coronavirus SARS-Cov2 by hydroxychloroquine Acronym: SARS-CoV2quine.”

Treatments:

Let’s update from earlier today:

In short, this is a growing work in progress.

Next, his evaluation on mortality rate:

And so:

Comments

ET - don't you think it's possible that they do know bout zinc, but in their estimation, they don't think it'll be effective?Bob O'H_{April 23, 2020
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Why are doctors so ignorant of zinc? HC is supposed to be used with zinc. You have to be dense to not use the two together. People are dying due to medical ignorance. How pathetic is that?ET_{April 23, 2020
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As per six studies examined by a team of researchers in Iran (as well as a few choice studies from both China and France), using the drug can’t actually shorten the recovery time. In fact, when compared to standard care, which usually includes oxygen, fluids, monitoring and other supportive care, there is no relevant difference in outcomes. The findings of the research were published Apr. 20 on medRxiv.org. However, since COVID-19 is a respiratory disease that targets our lungs, additional examinations were made. Per the results, there are slightly more people that took the drugs and showed clearer lungs compared with those that are on standard treatment.rhampton7_{April 23, 2020
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Hydroxychloroquine seems not to cut ventilator use in COVID-19 There is no evidence that use of hydroxychloroquine alone (HC) or with azithromycin (HC+AZ) reduces the risks for mechanical ventilation or death from any cause in patients hospitalized with COVID-19, according to a study that has not yet been peer reviewed and was posted online April 21 at medRxiv.org. Joseph Magagnoli, from the Columbia VA Health Care System in South Carolina, and colleagues performed a retrospective analysis of data from 368 patients hospitalized with confirmed severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 infection: 97 treated with HC, 113 with HC+AZ, and 158 with no HC. The researchers found that the rates of death were 27.8, 22.1, and 11.4 percent, respectively, in the HC, HC+AZ, and no HC groups. The rates of ventilation were 13.3, 6.9, and 14.1 percent in the HC, HC+AZ, and no HC groups, respectively. The risk for death from any cause was higher in the HC group (adjusted hazard ratio [aHR], 2.61; 95 percent confidence interval [CI], 1.10 to 6.17; P = 0.03), but not in the HC+AZ group (aHR, 1.14; 95 percent CI, 0.56 to 2.32; P = 0.72) compared with the no HC group. Compared with the no HC group, the risk for ventilation was similar in the HC group (aHR, 1.43; 95 percent CI, 0.53 to 3.79; P = 0.48) and in the HC+AZ group (aHR, 0.43; 95 percent CI, 0.16 to 1.12; P = 0.09).rhampton7_{April 23, 2020
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Townhall More than anything, I want people to recover. I want the treatment to work for that reason, not because of anything Trump has said. I cannot fathom what it must be like to live one's life in such a way that a drug assisting people recover from a terrible disease might be irksome because that might mean that a politician was right about something. In short, Dr. Fauci has been right on this: Let's wait and see the results of real trials -- because right now both the optimistic and pessimistic information we have remains limited. With dozens of therapies being actively tested, I'll leave you with hopeful information about non-hydroxychloroquine treatments, including remdesivir. https://www.wsj.com/articles/bet-big-on-treatments-for-coronavirus-11586102963rhampton7_{April 23, 2020
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F/N: Brazil weighs in: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5qm58cd4fneeci2/2020.04.15%20journal%20manuscript%20final.pdf?dl=0 >>Empirical treatment with hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin for suspected cases of COVID-19 followed-up by telemedicine Rodrigo Barbosa Esper M.D., Ph.D., Rafael Souza da Silva M.D. [et al] Affiliation/institution: Prevent Senior Institute, São Paulo, Brazil . . . . The Ethics Committee approved study number - CONEP/Plataforma Brasil CAAE: 30586520.9.0000.0008 (Número Parecer:3.968.699) ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier: NCT04348474 Abstract Background: Telemedicine can facilitate patient’s assessment with initial flu-like symptoms in the COVID-19 pandemic, moreover it promotes social isolation. Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin are associated with reduction in COVID-19 patients' viral load. This study aims to assess whether empirical prescription of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin for patients with suspected COVID-19 is associated with less need for hospitalization Methods: A telemedicine team evaluated suspected COVID-19 outpatients with flu-like symptoms, if no contraindications were detected, treatment with hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin was prescribed after consent from subjects. Patients were monitored daily by telemedicine appointments. Results: Of the 636 symptomatic outpatients, 412 started treatment with hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin and 224 refused medications (control group). Need for hospitalization was 1.9% in the treatment group and 5.4% in the control group (2.8 times greater) and number needed to treat was 28 (NNT = 28). In those who started treatment before versus after the seventh day of symptoms, the need for hospitalization was 1.17% and 3.2%, respectively. Conclusion: Empirical treatment with hydroxychloroquine associated with azithromycin for suspected cases of COVID-19 infection reduces the need for hospitalization (p LT 0.001) Notice, the p value. KFkairosfocus_{April 23, 2020
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BO'H: You full well know that a research investigation into HCQ has been ongoing. Notice, at the end of the statement: " in progress at the IHU Méditerranée Infection: Treatment of respiratory infections with Coronavirus SARS-Cov2 by hydroxychloroquine Acronym: SARS-CoV2quine." Whatever APM may say, that relates specifically to the chart that you have seen. Beyond whatever admin debates and power games may obtain, there are some facts on the ground for you to account for. And, on the table is the issue of decision theory. KFkairosfocus_{April 23, 2020
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Jerry, they should have known who Dr Raoult is, and that his comment would be material to a responsible story. The lockstep march instead is a clue that what is happening is agit prop standing in the place of responsible journalism. KFkairosfocus_{April 23, 2020
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kf - which study is that reference for approval for? If it's not for the first study, it's not legitimate.Bob O'H_{April 23, 2020
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Wow, this is strong from Raoult:
In the current period, it seems that passion dominates rigorous and balanced scientific analysis and may lead to scientific misconduct. The article by Magagnoli et al. (Magagnoli, 2020) is an absolutely spectacular example of this.
Especially strong from someone who's only released study removed the patients who got worse from the analysis (all in the HCQ group), and then claimed that HCQ worked better.Bob O'H_{April 23, 2020
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first We were both trying to find it. We knew it existed. The reason I have returned to UD is because people like you are an incredible source of good information and this site is as good as any I found in the last month for info on virus. I found out about Zelenko and Raoult here. I found out about quercetin here. Not sure where I found out about MedCram. I found out about medmastery on my Twitter feed as someone who follows me criticized a HCQ study that was reviewed there. I’m not as interested in the evolution debate because the evidence is so overwhelming in one direction. Note the irony of using that term because that is the word Darwinist constantly used without providing any evidence. Similar on the virus. We are presented with irrelevant data and criticisms. Watching human nature in action is the fun part.jerry_{April 23, 2020
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So a question to all. Did the press create fake news on this survey? On an extremely inaccurate or essentially a fake survey? And who fell for it? We know some here have fallen for the fake news but it is widespread in the US and in other parts of the world.jerry_{April 23, 2020
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Jerry, I see you got there first. KF PS: Dr Rault's Tweet, courtesy GT:
Didier raoult @raoult_didier The study published in pre-print on 04/21 on Medrxiv by Maganoli et al has three major biases which invalidate its conclusions, in any case absurd and incompatible with the literature. We have detailed these biases in the letter below.
kairosfocus_{April 23, 2020
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F/N: After some search, Raoult's response: https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Response-to-Magagnoli.pdf KFkairosfocus_{April 23, 2020
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https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Response-to-Magagnoli.pdf Raoult response in English.jerry_{April 23, 2020
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What’s your opinion on this?
Maybe Bob O’H should express his opinion too. Still trying to find actual response by Raoult. Probably in French but always Google translate. News accounts often stay away from actual sources since they do not want to loose eyeballs from their pages.jerry_{April 23, 2020
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Jawa, First and foremost, key context: the USA is in a 4th gen civil war, where in part one side is the party of the worst holocaust in history, the ongoing mass killing of our living posterity in the womb, at the global rate of up to a million more per week. in 40 plus years that holocaust has killed 800+ million innocents, likely 1.4 billion, the US toll being 63+ million. Blood guilt is the most corrupting of all influences, far more so than money-lust. To enable that, the seven mountain centres of influence have been deeply compromised and corrupted. At the same time a 4th gen war is so subtle that even frontline combattants may not realise that they are fighting in a war. In my homeland, it took a full generation before it was more or less publicly acknowledged that 1980 marked a civil war, part of the wider Cold War, the real WW 3. (And yes, see my point? A whole world war with millions of casualties was fought in the shadows for 40+ years.) Where a major theatre of operations in such warfare is the information battle-space that dominates the war for minds, hearts and souls of men. A space in which souls are bought and sold as if they were commodities. In that context, agit prop operations with media amplification are a given. I hardly need to more than mention that atrocity stories and cover ups of atrocities are classic tactics of such a battlespace. Including of course, slander operations and censorship and lockout from key platforms. Ms Ingraham has a right to seriously complain and to defend herself. She is being targetted for blood libel. had the general media even a shred of integrity left, it would have properly acknowledged Dr Raoult and would have done a proper report on the man, his institution and work, doing a proper interview. If he does not speak English well, the use of interpreters is well known. Remember, this is the biggest single test of HCL + Azithro under an approved protocol. And, it is showing a 90 percent reduction from expected rate of death on a genuine n-BAU. Taking in Zn, that can go even higher. That we see a pile-on with singing off the same hymn sheet instead, is diagnostic. Unfortunately, a generation from now, people will still be confused, that's the power of agit prop amplified by dominant media. Turning to the critique she featured, if the facts are as she reports, then we are seeing yet another case of it doesn't work when it is already too late so it doesn't work, and oh we ignore synergy too. Something seems to be very wrong here. KFkairosfocus_{April 23, 2020
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KF, What’s your opinion on this? https://youtu.be/RexUJeWmzSE Thanks.jawa_{April 23, 2020
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So no, not irrelevant.
Yes, irrelevant. I believe Raoult has called the study irresponsible and am currently trying to find his actual analysis. The purpose of the treatment is to obviate hospitalization which usually indicates they have reached a stage beyond which the drug may have lost it’s effectiveness. These were all hospitalized so yes, study is irrelevant. There is still some value in the study to try to understand who progresses to what but not to hospitalization or not. Of Zelenko’s 450 cases identified as high risks only 4 hospitalized. Two died, one had cancer and died and under our current standard is a C19 death. He has had over 1450 total cases but did not administer treatment to them all as most were low risk. I don’t know hospitalization rate of Raoult patients. None of VA were identified as using zinc which eliminates the virusjerry_{April 23, 2020
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BO'H: we have in hand the largest study [under an approved protocol] regarding Covid-19 and the cocktail, HCQ + Azithromycin. The numbers tested now exceed 3,000 and the n-BAU numbers seem to be about 1500. The study has been carried out by perhaps the leading researcher on this sort of infectious diseases in France, some would argue Europe. His growing results show a steady pattern of a contrast of some 0.5% or less fatality rate contrasting to about 5% otherwise, i.e. we see the sort of 90% reduction highlighted by Dr Zelenko. Zelenko's own work is now in the 1,000 + class and with Zn supplements, is showing a 95% reduction relative to local nBAU. Where, Zelenko has indicated that he will publish shortly (he has already issued a general letter to the global physicians community), in collaboration with others, to be followed by a study. Raoult and his institute issue regular updates, bulletins and preprints. They generally publish 200 - 300 papers per year, roughly five per week. We also have a serious candidate mechanism of HCQ opening gateways for Zn ions [in addition to anti-inflammatory effects, shape shifting receptors making spike protein binding more difficult and the like], which are separately documented as suppressing viral replication [cf. Medcram]. HCQ has been documented chemically as a broad acting antiviral since 2005, and it is known that it readily goes into the body as a drug, one with manageable side effects. For instance Raoult collaborates with cardiologists who can veto use with a case at risk of arrhythmia. Now, on broad principles of laws of nature, drugs don't "know" they are in glass or in body, so once getting into the body and managing toxicity are off the table as fatal objections, activity in cells in glass will plausibly transfer to the same sorts of cells in the body. It would be nice to have further results from animal physiological analogues, but that is not in public so far as I know. Connecting dots, bats were being used as analogues in China, and it is likely, post SARS1, that antiviral candidates including HCQ were being tested. That would go to the sort of short list we saw in China's response. However, this aspect is speculative though useful as pointing to another aspect. It is highly unlikely that the results are by chance, and their common message that early intervention tells, seems inherently plausible. Otherwise, cases are being treated significantly later in the disease progress, which may well account for differences in outcomes: Machiavelli had a famous remark on analogy between political disorders and hectic fever, hard to diagnose early on, and by the time the course of the disease is obvious to all, it is too late to cure. In short, we have good reason to take the inherent plausibility of HCQ and of cocktails seriously and to act promptly. That's why, in the face of a pandemic with a fast-moving killer, that is grounds enough that the survey of physicians indicates that HCQ and Azithromycin are being taken seriously by frontline physicians. And, the gold standard fallacy is still a fallacy. The use of decision making scenario techniques allows recognition of n-BAU as baseline [and a fat cocktail is not that!] and to evaluate the plausible difference from serious candidate alternatives. Evidence is evidence, our job is to find ways to make it analytically tractable towards making decisions in good time. And already, recession is nipping at our heels. The lockdown model is non-viable as a long term solution and vaccines are a year out, if they are possible . . . HIV does not have one after nearly 40 years of trying. We must find a more sustainable solution, now. This is a policy-level, strategic decision making issue. As a statistician, you have doubtless done some decision theory work. Let's hear you on that question. KFkairosfocus_{April 23, 2020
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Jerry @ 13 -
Publishing data takes months. You can make available results and Zelenko has but a formal publication will not be quick.
We now have pre-print servers, so publication can be quick: medArkiv takes 2-3 days from submission to being put up online. The VA study included patients up to the 11th of April.Bob O'H_{April 23, 2020
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What do you think of this Hill article below?
Irrelevant as they were already very sick when administered the drug.
if you read the pre-print, you'll see that they corrected for the differnces in severity, and came to the same conclusion. So no, not irrelevant.Bob O'H_{April 23, 2020
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I have now added a first series of screen shots that summarise Dr Raoult's core claims. This includes a summary on what he is.kairosfocus_{April 22, 2020
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@12 Jerry
RH should include in his comments. that the stories he is posting are irrelevant.
That would be an intelligent disclaimer.Truthfreedom_{April 22, 2020
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but do we have anything other than his word about his treatment regime and its alleged efficacy
His protocol is now being used around the world and has not been shown ineffective. The NY Times did not find anything wrong with him. Over 60 doctors have signed up to use his treatment. His treatment is based on previous medical studies using these drugs. But only soon after the symptoms appear. The MedCram site listed zinc and a zinc ionophore as a prophylactic. Publishing data takes months. You can make available results and Zelenko has but a formal publication will not be quick. People need to make sure everything is absolutely correct and there is review etc. So to use this argument when people are dying is not useful. Eventually there will be lots of data but in the mean time a lot of people are dying, with a high probably that most are unnecessary.jerry_{April 22, 2020
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Dr Zelenko may well be right but do we have anything other than his word about his treatment regime and its alleged efficacy.? Have any of these other doctors been able to duplicate his results and publish their data? I would have thought that the earlier an intervention can be made the better is almost a truism in medical circles. But it's better to use something that you have good reason to believe works rather than just hope will work because there's going to be a lot of money and other resources that will have to be committed.Seversky_{April 22, 2020
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You guys are gonna ride the Raoult train
I like Zelenko's protocol better but Raoult has had very good success.
What do you think of this Hill article below?
Irrelevant as they were already very sick when administered the drug. It is bogus stories like this that are driving the news cycle. It is a form of fake news. The more interesting question is why the press doesn't know that the studies are irrelevant. Dr. Oz is making the same bogus analysis as he seems to be uninformed. Somebody should tell Savage that he is reacting to false information. RHampton should include in his comments. that the stories he is posting are irrelevant. The Science backs the use of HCQ especially when combined with zinc and early on. Any study of people already in the hospital is a bogus study. People diagnosed with the disease are told to wait and see how bad it gets and self isolate because often their immune system rids them of the virus. But many don't get there. They are not given any treatment. It is specifically at this time that a treatment should be administered but the FDA said no.jerry_{April 22, 2020
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RH7, there is substantial data on the table from significant researchers, kindly address it. US agitprop polarisation games over Fox News vs CNN etc are simply irrelevant. KFkairosfocus_{April 22, 2020
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FF, kindly note the concern raised by Dr Zelenko about trials that start treatment when it is late and compare the findings on nearly 3,000 patients compared with the de facto near business as usual: https://uncommondescent.com/medicine/dr-zelenkos-hcq-based-alt-ernative-to-the-near-business-as-usual-n-bau-approach/ Today has been a busy one. KFkairosfocus_{April 22, 2020
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Dr. Michael Savage, who holds a Ph.D. in nutritional ethnomedicine from the University of California, Berkeley, condemned news networks that have induced "mass hysteria" among the U.S. populace while pushing hydroxychloroquine. "I was the only voice warning about Hydroxy," Savage tweeted on Wednesday. "Mass hysteria induced by Fox News. All wanted a 'magic bullet' - the hatred was worse than I have ever seen. Almost impossible to educate the brainwashed masses who distrust and hate science."rhampton7_{April 22, 2020
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