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Dr Thomas Frieden, formerly Director of the US CDC, 2017 in NEJM, on the need to go beyond placebo-controlled studies as “gold standard”

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One of the key steps in dismissing evidence of efficacy of hydroxychloroquine-based cocktails in treating early stageCovid-19 for patients in vulnerable groups on an outpatient basis is the use of the premise that such evidence is of low quality as it does not match the “gold standard” of placebo-controlled, randomised tests (often. RCT’s). However, observations are observations, natural regularities are often observable from the first few trials, evidence is evidence, ethical and practical considerations are real, and valid scientific methods do not reduce to applied statistics.

It is in that context that we should attend carefully to remarks by Dr Thomas Frieden, writing in NEJM 3 1/2 years ago, in terms that uncannily anticipate our current woes:

Despite their strengths, RCTs have substantial limitations. Although they can have strong internal validity, RCTs sometimes lack external validity; generalizations of findings outside the study population may be invalid.2,4,6 RCTs usually do not have sufficient study periods or population sizes to assess duration of treatment effect (e.g., waning immunity of vaccines) or to identify rare but serious adverse effects of treatment, which often become evident during postmarketing surveillance and long-term follow-up but could not be practically assessed in an RCT. The increasingly high costs and time constraints of RCTs can also lead to reliance on surrogate markers that may not correlate well with the outcome of interest. Selection of high-risk groups increases the likelihood of having adequate numbers of end points, but these groups may not be relevant to the broader target populations. These limitations and the fact that RCTs often take years to plan, implement, and analyze reduce the ability of RCTs to keep pace with clinical innovations; new products and standards of care are often developed before earlier models complete evaluation. These limitations also affect the use of RCTs for urgent health issues, such as infectious disease outbreaks, for which public health decisions must be made quickly on the basis of limited and often imperfect available data. RCTs are also limited in their ability to assess the individualized effect of treatment, as can result from differences in surgical techniques, and are generally impractical for rare diseases.

Many other data sources can provide valid evidence for clinical and public health action. Observational studies, including assessments of results from the implementation of new programs and policies, remain the foremost source, but other examples include analysis of aggregate clinical or epidemiologic data . . .

He also presents a table of options with strengths and weaknesses, which we now sample:

Dr Thomas Friedman on strengths and limitations of Placebo controlled testing

Later in the same article, as he concludes, he also notes:

There is no single, best approach to the study of health interventions; clinical and public health decisions are almost always made with imperfect data (Table 1). Promoting transparency in study methods, ensuring standardized data collection for key outcomes, and using new approaches to improve data synthesis are critical steps in the interpretation of findings and in the identification of data for action, and it must be recognized that conclusions may change over time. There will always be an argument for more research and for better data, but waiting for more data is often an implicit decision not to act or to act on the basis of past practice rather than best available evidence. The goal must be actionable data — data that are sufficient for clinical and public health action that have been derived openly and objectively and that enable us to say, “Here’s what we recommend and why.”

In that context, it is appropriate for me to again highlight a diagram on sustainability oriented decision making, adapted from the Bariloche Foundation of Argentina:

Where, BAU is in fact a natural baseline of reference. We seek a more satisfactory alternative, ALT. It must be credible enough incrementally to justify onward exploration and that first requires becoming a candidate for more costly investigation that shifts epistemic probabilities. Where, of arguments by/among clever people there is no end, so empirical demonstration at various levels is pivotal.

Here, epistemology of empirically based knowledge does not allow for gold standards that impose selective hyperskepticism against otherwise reasonable evidence. Evidence is evidence (and various uncertainties, risks and potential for errors cannot be wholly eliminated). So, we must recognise that BAU is a baseline/ benchmark/ control, and there is no strict necessity to construct an artificial, no effective treatment baseline; call it 0TB.

After all, the point is really to improve outcomes from BAU, and gap analysis ALT vs BAU has no inherent reference to 0TB. Algebraically, on credible or observed outcomes, we see this from

(ALT – 0TB) – (BAU – 0TB) = ALT – BAU

Where, with people as test subjects, if 0TB is based on deception — e.g. sugar pills deliberately mislabelled and presented under false colours and ceremonies of medicine and research in the face of significant risk of harm to vulnerable patients — and has potential for significant harm, it becomes ethically questionable. We know of extreme cases of concentration camp experimentation, the Tuskegee syphilis atrocity and more. However in more recent times, people have been subjected to fake surgeries under general anesthesia etc. The placebo effect has covered a multitude of sins.

In the face of pandemic, urgency is another issue. What yields results in a timeframe relevant to taming the surge of cases becomes a highly relevant criterion. As does the tradeoff of lives lost under various treatment, public health [e.g. quarantines vs general lockdown] and policy options. Where, relevantly, economic dislocation carries a toll in health and lives too. (It is suggested by some that deaths of despair and from postponed medical procedures may/do exceed those attributed to the epidemic.) This means BTW that the dismal science, Economics, has a seat at the decision makers’ table as of right.

It is time for mindset change. END

PS/UD Aug 15: I have found at Bit Chute, a July 28 Frontline Doctors seminar which describes several mechanisms of action. Accordingly, I take liberty to annotate a screenshot, summarising several mechanisms of action described by these Doctors [cf. here for their references], but which are hard to find because of now almost pervasive censorship:

I note, this first answers a puzzle on the mode of action, shape-shift of ACE2: the shift is INTERNAL to the cell by hindering “glycation” of the final AA (thus prior to exposure to buffering of blood etc), altering the shape enough to hamper S-protein reception. This reduces fusion with bilipid layer and RNA injection.

Other direct mechanisms as noted, reduce intracellular acidity thus action of organelles. They highlight stalling of assembly of new viri in the Golgi bodies, with implication of blocking export of fresh viri, thus hampering the multiplication chain. The by now well known indirect activity is that as a lipophilic molecule, HCQ enters the cell bilipid layer membrane, acting as a Zn ionophore, i.e. it “shoots” Zn into the cell. Zn in turn hinders a key viral enzyme, RdRP.

Thus, we see a plausible picture of causal action, involving multiple, synergistic effects. This lends credibility to the use of HCQ-based cosctails in treating the early viral phases of CV19.

PPS: Given tendencies to be dismissive, I here reproduce two key illustrations/charts from Dr Raoult’s work on now over 3,000 patients at IHU in Marseilles France.

First, his statistical summary on difference made with vulnerable groups through HCQ-Azithromycin treatment, by May:

We note that expected death rates for vulnerable groups are as high as 15%.

Next, here is a chart from his early, about 80 patient stage, illustrating rapid reduction of viral load . . . for which we now have specific, scientifically plausible causal mechanisms on the table:

I add, just for stirring the pot, a Frontline Doctors chart on CV19 case fatality rates vs accessibility of HCQ:

Thus, we see good reason to accept that HCQ-based cocktails (which were available from the outset of the pandemic) are credibly effective and should not have been treated with the extreme skepticism, hostility and suppression we have instead seen. Note, the leader of the Frontline Doctors, Dr Simone Gold, was fired immediately on leading a public protest. Frankly, that smacks of whistleblower retaliation.

It is appropriate to raise pointed questions, through the voice of the doctors writing an open letter to Dr Fauci:

>>There is currently no recommended pharmacologic early outpatient treatment for individuals in the flu stage of the illness, correct?
It is true that COVID-19 is much more lethal than the flu for high-risk individuals such as older patients and those with significant comorbidities, correct?
Individuals with signs of early COVID-19 infection typically have a runny nose, fever, cough, shortness of breath, loss of smell, etc., and physicians send them home to rest, eat chicken soup etc., but offer no specific, targeted medications, correct?
These high-risk individuals are at high risk of death, on the order of 15% or higher, correct?
So just so we are clear—the current standard of care now is to send clinically stable symptomatic patients home, “with a wait and see” approach?
Are you aware that physicians are successfully using Hydroxychloroquine combined with Zinc and Azithromycin as a “cocktail” for early outpatient treatment of symptomatic, high-risk, individuals?
Have you heard of the “Zelenko Protocol,” for treating high-risk patients with COVID 19 as an outpatient?
Have you read Dr. Risch’s article in the American Journal of Epidemiology of the early outpatient treatment of COVID-19?
Are you aware that physicians using the medication combination or “cocktail” recommend use within the first 5 to 7 days of the onset of symptoms, before the illness impacts the lungs, or cytokine storm evolves?
Again, to be clear, your recommendation is no pharmacologic treatment as an outpatient for the flu—like symptoms in patients that are stable, regardless of their risk factors, correct?
Would you advocate for early pharmacologic outpatient treatment of symptomatic COVID-19 patients if you were confident that it was beneficial?
Are you aware that there are hundreds of physicians in the United States and thousands across the globe who have had dramatic success treating high-risk individuals as outpatients with this “cocktail?”
Are you aware that there are at least 10 studies demonstrating the efficacy of early outpatient treatment with the Hydroxychloroquine cocktail for high-risk patients — so this is beyond anecdotal, correct?
If one of your loved ones had diabetes or asthma, or any potentially complicating comorbidity, and tested positive for COVID-19, would you recommend “wait and see how they do” and go to the hospital if symptoms progress?
Even with multiple studies documenting remarkable outpatient efficacy and safety of the Hydroxychloroquine “cocktail,” you believe the risks of the medication combination outweigh the benefits?
Is it true that with regard to Hydroxychloroquine and treatment of COVID-19 infection, you have said repeatedly that “The Overwhelming Evidence of Properly Conducted Randomized Clinical Trials Indicate No Therapeutic Efficacy of Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ)?”
But NONE of the randomized controlled trials to which you refer were done in the first 5 to 7 days after the onset of symptoms- correct?
All of the randomized controlled trials to which you refer were done on hospitalized patients, correct?
Hospitalized patients are typically sicker that outpatients, correct?
None of the randomized controlled trials to which you refer used the full cocktail consisting of Hydroxychloroquine, Zinc, and Azithromycin, correct?

While the University of Minnesota study is referred to as disproving the cocktail, the meds were not given within the first 5 to 7 days of illness, the test group was not high risk (death rates were 3%), and no zinc was given, correct?
Again, for clarity, the trials upon which you base your opinion regarding the efficacy of Hydroxychloroquine, assessed neither the full cocktail (to include Zinc + Azithromycin or doxycycline) nor administered treatment within the first 5 to 7 days of symptoms, nor focused on the high-risk group, correct?
Therefore, you have no basis to conclude that the Hydroxychloroquine cocktail when used early in the outpatient setting, within the first 5 to 7 days of symptoms, in high risk patients, is not effective, correct?
It is thus false and misleading to say that the effective and safe use of Hydroxychloroquine, Zinc, and Azithromycin has been “debunked,” correct? How could it be “debunked” if there is not a single study that contradicts its use?

Should it not be an absolute priority for the NIH and CDC to look at ways to treat Americans with symptomatic COVID-19 infections early to prevent disease progression?
The SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19 virus is an RNA virus. It is well-established that Zinc interferes with RNA viral replication, correct?
Moreover, is it not true that hydroxychloroquine facilitates the entry of zinc into the cell, is a “ionophore,” correct?
Isn’t also it true that Azithromycin has established anti-viral properties?
Are you aware of the paper from Baylor by Dr. McCullough et. al. describing established mechanisms by which the components of the “HCQ cocktail” exert anti-viral effects?

So- the use of hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin (or doxycycline) and zinc, the “HCQ cocktail,” is based on science, correct?>>

Comments
i first thought of an alcohol lamp when KF mentioned 'spirit burner' then I began to think it might be a type of kitchen stove burner like a coleman-brand stove or, more applicable a MSR-type backpacking stove which can burn pretty much any fuel, i.e., gas, kerosene, or diesel, you have on hand. I see now he meant an alcohol burner/lamp.RHolt
August 15, 2020
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MMT, Spirit burner is what I know it as, with direct parallel to Bunsen burner. I saw Wiki, I have a 4 inch flame burner depending on wick level; my wick is extra wide. Another one using a small Altoids can gives a linear flame with about 2 inch height. Beyond are chafing cans and gas hot plates etc. KF PS, are they still selling Heet yellow and red?kairosfocus
August 15, 2020
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BO'H: We already know that key effects are plausibly coming from synergies so no one component is responsible for the effect. This is brought out in the string of questions in the open letter to Dr Fauci, here: https://www.thedesertreview.com/opinion/columnists/open-letter-to-dr-anthony-fauci-regarding-the-use-of-hydroxychloroquine-for-treating-covid-19/article_31d37842-dd8f-11ea-80b5-bf80983bc072.html and has been highlighted any number of times over months. For example a main antiviral action is from Zn ions, with HCQ serving as ionophore transporting across the bilipid layer. Azithromycin is a typical antibiotic targetting secondary infection and is known to have some antiviral activity. Zn, vits C and D are supplements in a context where dietary deficiencies are common. In addition, we know from 40 years of successful use as a fish tank cleaner using reasonably comparable concentrations that the CQ family attack across kingdoms so would target core molecular cellular functions, complex animals stand it better than unicellular organisms and the like, so delicate fish thrive, crud, marine ick etc die. The issue is that this is background to see how it works reasonably well in cases, with effective action for vulnerable groups. Where, safety is clearly manageable, never mind gross exaggerations that were trumpeted. In the face of a pressing emergency that should be enough. Later, go find a handy animal analogue and experiment to heart's content on relative contributions, synergies and the like. The proper priority is to blunt a pandemic capable of killing 15% of vulnerable groups, without so crashing the global economy that dislocation, despair, bankruptcies, famine etc cause more losses than the pandemic. Where, it is seriously arguable that gold standard fallacies significantly contributed to needless losses on a material scale. History, for cause, will judge us harshly. KFkairosfocus
August 15, 2020
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RHolt
What is a ‘spirit burner’?
A Ghostbusters’ proton pack? :) Actually, alcohol burners are common in microbiology labs for sterilizing loops or tweezers between use. Dip the loop in alcohol, then place it in the flame of an alcohol burner. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_burnerMac McTavish
August 15, 2020
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Thanks, KF, I was actually referring to details about the $200,000 reward ET mentioned (nevermind, though, there really is no point in me reading about it).daveS
August 15, 2020
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DS, if you mean the Frieden paper, the link was added to the OP: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMra1614394 KFkairosfocus
August 15, 2020
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RHolt, a spirit burner would be familiar from Chemistry set days, a glass, shallow, metal topped bottle with a cotton wick that burns alcohol fuels. Useful for certain crafts, especially for softening lignin to bend wood. My current one is from a small Maraschino Cherry bottle. 90% is fine for that and for most solvent work. Mix down to dilute, the water here is spring water. I do not need reagent grade. KFkairosfocus
August 15, 2020
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Oh well, probably best if I don't find the link anyway. What with all the chores I have lined up for today.daveS
August 15, 2020
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Jerry @ 23 -
Why is confounding not an issue?
Because knowing exactly which variable contributed what is not the immediate issue.
No, that is precisely the issue. If differences between the groups are due to HCQ, then great. But if they are due to (say) age, or initial severity of the disease, then you're making the wrong inference.
What is the immediate issue is that there is a result that is saving lives.
But is it? How do we know? To be precise, how do we know that in the studies that have shown a difference between groups, it's because of the treatment and not a confounder?Bob O'H
August 15, 2020
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Jerry has been providing that, for weeks, now.ET
August 15, 2020
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Why is confounding not an issue?
Because knowing exactly which variable contributed what is not the immediate issue. What is the immediate issue is that there is a result that is saving lives. What caused it exactly is certainly of interest but in the mean time moving forward with the protocol which is saving lives is the only consideration. There is no downside! There is a huge potential upside! Dithering over exactly which variable contributed what is for the future not while people are dying. That Fauci dismissed a treatment that reduced deaths by 50% is one of the most incredibly bad decisions of all time. As I said it reveals more about him than anything. Dismissing Raoult and Zelenko and thousands of other doctors because of possible confounding variables is right up there with that. Are the objections to HCQ and its subsequent suppression based on power, money or ego? Pick one or for some all three. Ignorance is not a choice.jerry
August 15, 2020
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ET, Do you have a link to this reward? I don't have any of the background required, but I wouldn't mind reading the terms of the challenge.daveS
August 15, 2020
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And there is still a $200,000 reward for anyone who can show Dr. Z's protocol is ineffective. What are Bob, RHolt and RHampton waiting for?ET
August 15, 2020
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KF
It’s cheaper to add my own water.
Not to derail your thread too far but there is a breaking point with cost. Alcohol purity of 91% can be obtained with distillation. After that to get a higher percent alcohol, e.g., 95 and 99%, the producers have house chemical dehydration methods and this adds considerable to the cost. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and pay the higher price is high-percent reagent grade is all that is available. What is a 'spirit burner'?RHolt
August 15, 2020
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kf @ 13 - OK, so you're ignoring my critique. If you can't provide any answer at all to these problems, then perhaps the studies aren't as good as you think they are. Jerry @ 14 - Why is confounding not an issue?Bob O'H
August 15, 2020
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RHolt, of course, I control my own dilution, why pay for the water at drug price rates? And yes I know the 70% debate. I want the option of all the way to get other effects, up to and including use as less toxic fuel than alternatives for spirit burners. It's cheaper to add my own water. Oh yes, eyeglasses cleaner is a use mixed with soapy solution. I also use Chlorox 5.25% for certain things. And of course, I firmly believe in soap at 20 sec dwell time. KFkairosfocus
August 15, 2020
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ps sorry for the off-topic post I thought it was important info to help us all protect ourselves and loved ones during these trying times!RHolt
August 15, 2020
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KF
Of course, isopropyl alcohol, 91% — my usual general purpose disinfectant, first resort solvent etc — is not on the cards for now and I cannot talk shop-keepers here into getting Everclear.
For your own, and others safety, high concentration alcohols are not an effective disinfectant. The high percent alcohols act to dehydrate and preserve, but not denature, viral proteins and this renders them ineffective. you need some water present to denature the proteins. Alcohols in disinfectant should be no less than 70% with 75% being more effective. High proof alcohols also evaporate too fast and reduce contact time. There is a great deal of literature on this and if you are interested I can dig them up and link them although they aren't too difficult to find w/google. If higher alcohols, e.g., everclear, are available I suggest using The Who recipe. This recipe contains some glycerol to reduce evaporation and increase contact time as well as some peroxide which acts to kill any mold or fungi in the mix (the peroxide is relatively ineffective as an antiviral). The recipe is for 10-L but is easily scaled down for smaller volumes. One last point if ethanol and isopropyl alcohol is unavailable 1-propyl alcohol is equally effective (at the 75%) as a disinfectant. Below 70% is also ineffective. A 75% alcohol concentration will effectively denature and scramble viral proteins with a contact time of 30 seconds or so. Be safe out there. When this pandemic first started I also thought that higher percent alcohols would be better. I only discovered this to be not true after researching how alcohols act as a disinfectant and how to prepare a hand sanitizing solution since the store shelves were rendered bare. I was able to order some 99% isopropyl and ethyl alcohols, however. Surprised me but after reading the literature the chemistry behind the 75% solution(s) made sense. The Who recipe also produces a disinfectant that is suitable for surgeries in locales where clean water is scarce and hand washing is difficult, obviously poorer third world countries are the target for this option.RHolt
August 15, 2020
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A reminder from Frieden: >>RCTs often take years to plan, implement, and analyze reduce the ability of RCTs to keep pace with clinical innovations; new products and standards of care are often developed before earlier models complete evaluation. These limitations also affect the use of RCTs for urgent health issues, such as infectious disease outbreaks, for which public health decisions must be made quickly on the basis of limited and often imperfect available data . . . . Many other data sources can provide valid evidence for clinical and public health action. Observational studies, including assessments of results from the implementation of new programs and policies, remain the foremost source, but other examples include analysis of aggregate clinical or epidemiologic data . . . >> KF PS: I adjusted highlighting in the OP.kairosfocus
August 15, 2020
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Now, read what I wrote.
Now, read what I wrote. Is anything I wrote not true? No. Confounding is not an issue. It is a diversion as Fauci used it in a reprehensible way. Why pick two practicing doctors of C19 patients who had success saving lives? Who gives a rat’s rear end if the data is not 100% perfect? There is no downside to using their approach. Absolutely none. An incredible up side. Hundreds of thousands of lives might have been saved. The question has always been is why such a large number of successes repeated by many doctors around the world? Have all these doctors been duped? Why the suppression and obfuscation. That should generate outrage. But no, we get nitpicking.jerry
August 15, 2020
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BO'H, there is more than adequate evidence to hold HCQ-based cocktails as reliably effective and some is emerging that adding or substituting ivermectin will work. Also that this may be effective later in the disease course. FYI, the crucial point for me is rapid response to the course of medication, often in 1 - 2 days. That does not happen by accident. And it is cherry picking to fail to recognise that an in common possibility of error is being taxed against one alternative. Also, possibility of error and need for due care are across the board. I repeat, the downfall of so many critiques is rapid, reliable strong response to treatment. It works. KFkairosfocus
August 15, 2020
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kf @ 8 - it would be helpful for your case if you actually explained why poor control of confounders isn't an important problem in the retrospective studies of Raoult and Zelenko, rather than just try to dismiss any criticisms. Yes, every methods has its weaknesses. But when discussing the weaknesses of one particular type of study, it's not cherry-picking to mention the weaknesses of that particular type of study.Bob O'H
August 15, 2020
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ET, that may well work for prophylaxis. The cost-risk-benefit-uncertainties issues balance says that a low cost fairly safe "treatment" with enough reason to be plausibly effective is worth exploring. KF PS: $36 for 240, some suppliers are out of stock on Amazon. Sounds like my emergency resort to 70% alc by volume hi wine from Guyana which is 7 points above the mamby pamby limits they have put on Jamaica overproof rum; I don't like a faint fruitiness, I don't know what esters they are adding or if they are actually using fruit; for sure the odd pale tan colour is food colouring . Subsequently, I am buying sanitiser from Antigua's main Rum Distillery which is 70% and smells suspiciously like white rum. Of course, isopropyl alcohol, 91% -- my usual general purpose disinfectant, first resort solvent etc -- is not on the cards for now and I cannot talk shop-keepers here into getting Everclear. I am also using cotton fabric face masks, trusting in the London intermolecular force, despite serious discomfort. Glasses are low risk standby for goggles, which I have waiting just in case. I am eyeing face shields. I wish guavas were running hot, and trust Mangoes as high vitamins etc superfruit. The trees in the garden are running a second crop in rapid succession. All of these pass a first tier cost-benefit-uncertainty assessment.kairosfocus
August 15, 2020
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ET - I was thinking about HCQ. Sorry if that wasn't clear.Bob O'H
August 15, 2020
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Jerry @ 4 - at least make an attempt to answer my criticism. I didn't say that they were under-powered, so that they needed bigger numbers. Now, read what I wrote. If you don't understand something, then ask. I appreciate you probably don't get to think about these issues as part of your work, so you might be missing something, or I might be writing something that isn't clear.Bob O'H
August 15, 2020
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BO'H: >>FWIW, I’ve never argued that retrospective studies can’t be used as evidence, rather that they have weaknesses that can make the inferences invalid.>> 1: ANY form of study has limitations that can invalidate its consequences. 2: If possibility of error disqualifies or marginalises an approach, you have just disqualified human, error-prone, rationality. >> Frieden acknowledges this problem in the table. >> 3: Cherry picking. As the excerpt of Table I in the OP illustrates, EVERY approach has strengths and limitations. Including, placebo based studies. >>What this means is that retrospective studies have to be done carefully to make sure any potential confounders are identified and controlled for in the analysis.>> 4: Cherry picking again. EVERY approach including general reasoning, faces this challenge. >>The studies that have mainly been pushed here (i.e. by Raoult and Zelenko) fail to do this.>> 5: In this, you are wrong, and your cherry picking, selective hyperskepticism and gold standard fallacies reinforce your error. See Jerry at 4. KFkairosfocus
August 15, 2020
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I'm amused that Bob is amused by an irrelevant sentence. OTC's aren't medications. For the most part they are essential vitamins and minerals. Again, that is why I choose quercetin over HCQET
August 15, 2020
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Jerry, you are of course quite correct, and predictably the gold standard fallacy has led to selectively hyperskeptical dismissal. KF PS: For introductory reference on Decision Theory, try here.kairosfocus
August 15, 2020
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BO'H: I thought I had, thanks, now provided, it is sitting in the next tab on my browser. KFkairosfocus
August 15, 2020
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The studies that have mainly been pushed here (i.e. by Raoult and Zelenko) fail to do this.
Nonsense. Each has large numbers. Each indicates a degree of effectiveness that is high. The drugs are safe. The drugs are extremely inexpensive. It is sadistic not to allow their use. Now if someone doesn’t want to take them, so be it. But they should be made available and most definitely not disparaged. The most egregious disparagement was by Fauci of the Henry Ford study where deaths were cut in half and his comment was there was confounding issues. He didn’t say we see something that cut deaths in half. He dismissed the study. Revealing something not very pretty about himself. It turns out the study was re-evaluated and the conclusions were the same. And a near identical study in Italy showed the same thing.
My guess is they will not address the obvious but divert.
Didn’t take long. More to come I’m sure.jerry
August 15, 2020
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