Hydroxychloroquine wars, 6: Dr Zelenko’s interview with Rudy Giuliani

_{kairosfocus

March 31, 2020

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KF@27, the following restrictions on its use are interesting.
The chloroquine phosphate may only be used to treat adult and adolescent patients who weigh 50 kg or more and are hospitalized with COVID-19, for whom a clinical trial is not available, or participation is not feasible.
So, it can only be prescribed in a hospital, and only if they aren’t eligible for a clinical trial. The very same restrictions that some of us have been raked over the coals for advocating.Ed George_{April 1, 2020
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This just came out too on hydroxychloroquine . This study has not yet been published in a scientific journal (therefore reviewed and corrected by experts), but made public in advance on an ad hoc site (MedRXiv). If the protocol offers the guarantees of a satisfactory level of evidence, it is of course not free from some weaknesses: - the study was most likely carried out in an emergency (testify to this in rough English and a fairly low level of detail); - the patients were able to receive other treatments, in particular antivirals, which somewhat clouded the results of the study; - the short follow-up time (5 days) of the patients does not exclude a rebound of the disease in the following days. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.22.20040758v2?fbclid=IwAR2jj9i5TBYC-MKU5Hrdsi-U9H8eUxf-M-BNJSBstM6f-aDMwAnlh3ddoFU And this article that comments on the medrxiv study , it's in french , but there's always Google translate ... https://www.heidi.news/sante/chloroquine-un-essai-mene-a-wuhan-vient-appuyer-son-interet-contre-le-coronavirus?fbclid=IwAR2iBlVVfNjN6AnQ3A3TJ3pv8ulUbxEl5rAHuItlJxKcM_5QJcr7X2uvLjUClaude Pariseau_{April 1, 2020
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A paper on Zinc and the immune system: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31305906 >>Adv Nutr. 2019 Jul 1;10(4):696-710. doi: 10.1093/advances/nmz013. The Role of Zinc in Antiviral Immunity. Read SA1,2, Obeid S3, Ahlenstiel C3, Ahlenstiel G1,2. Author information Abstract Zinc is an essential trace element that is crucial for growth, development, and the maintenance of immune function. Its influence reaches all organs and cell types, representing an integral component of approximately 10% of the human proteome, and encompassing hundreds of key enzymes and transcription factors. Zinc deficiency is strikingly common, affecting up to a quarter of the population in developing countries, but also affecting distinct populations in the developed world as a result of lifestyle, age, and disease-mediated factors. Consequently, zinc status is a critical factor that can influence antiviral immunity, particularly as zinc-deficient populations are often most at risk of acquiring viral infections such as HIV or hepatitis C virus. This review summarizes current basic science and clinical evidence examining zinc as a direct antiviral, as well as a stimulant of antiviral immunity. An abundance of evidence has accumulated over the past 50 y to demonstrate the antiviral activity of zinc against a variety of viruses, and via numerous mechanisms. The therapeutic use of zinc for viral infections such as herpes simplex virus and the common cold has stemmed from these findings; however, there remains much to be learned regarding the antiviral mechanisms and clinical benefit of zinc supplementation as a preventative and therapeutic treatment for viral infections. Copyright © American Society for Nutrition 2019.>> KFkairosfocus_{April 1, 2020
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DS, one's innocent reputation is A BASIC HUMAN RIGHT. That's why in normally functional jurisdictions, it is protected in law. My right to wag my tongue as I please ends where your innocent reputation begins. KFkairosfocus_{April 1, 2020
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F/N: FDA approval, next stage https://www.fda.gov/media/136534/download Read for yourself KFkairosfocus_{April 1, 2020
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I've just come upon this report on our National television station here in Canada , on colchisine , another anti-viral drug that's safe and low cost , studies are now being done on it's potency , and are about to be published , you should check this out too . Sorry that what i'm presenting is in french , but for those who understand the language , this should prove interesting ... i don't know if you''ll be able to watch this in your country , but it's worth a try . La colchicine et la COVID-19 : entrevue avec Jean-Claude Tardif https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCyzU07U2sg&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR1gLfxvkb5o8-DqZSKC85RJ4B-2dsv-zDGIZUohS55Zg7RbP8vyEwN9OxoClaude Pariseau_{April 1, 2020
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In vitro study for Hydroxychloroquine/ Chloroquine: Hydroxychloroquine was found to be more potent than chloroquine in vitro. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article-pdf/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa237/32882334/ciaa237.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwig-cjRsMfoAhWCsKQKHYVND2UQFjAIegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw3orscITIF6UDW9do0OUs7c Let's wait for the clinical trials. DO NOT BOTHER WITH "MEDIA OUTLETS" AND ANONYMOUS POSTERS THAT DO NOT HAVE A CLUE ABOUT SCIENCE.Truthfreedom_{April 1, 2020
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The wishful thinking is that what he said is true.ET_{April 1, 2020
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Anyway, sorry for the derail, I'll stop talking politics now. :)daveS_{April 1, 2020
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ET, That's not wishful thinking, there are literally video recordings of Rudy saying that. :PdaveS_{April 1, 2020
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daves- You want wishful thinking? Rudy says that he has evidentiary support that Joe Biden is corrupt. Evidence that will get Joe impeached if he becomes President.ET_{April 1, 2020
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Here's one report, Jerry: Initial Investigation of Transmission of COVID-19 Among Crew Members During Quarantine of a Cruise Ship — Yokohama, Japan, February 2020ET_{April 1, 2020
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KF, That's unfortunate (IMHO). I've skimmed a few articles about the chloroquine issues (which I hadn't been following closely) and am hoping that new studies yield positive results.daveS_{April 1, 2020
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Jerry, more explanation. I think his background shaped how he interviewed. KFkairosfocus_{April 1, 2020
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DS, in my jurisdiction, for cause, wishful thinking like that is in carry a fat cheque book to court territory. KFkairosfocus_{April 1, 2020
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KF, He's still a free man, and to be honest, I think it's unlikely he will be convicted of anything. I am free to engage in wishful thinking, however.daveS_{March 31, 2020
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DS, I suggest there is in Anglophone jurisprudence a standard of innocence until proved guilty in a proper court. KFkairosfocus_{March 31, 2020
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a lawyer, and a former prosecutor
I know who Giuliani is very well. I lived in Westchester county just north of the city during the time he was mayor. He saved New York City. It is just that he is terrible as an interviewer.jerry_{March 31, 2020
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KF,
Jerry, a lawyer, and a former prosecutor. KF
Also, a future convicted felon who is being investigated by the very office he used to head. :PdaveS_{March 31, 2020
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Jerry, a lawyer, and a former prosecutor. KFkairosfocus_{March 31, 2020
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Because [the virus] is so new, we do not yet know how long any protection generated through infection will last. We urgently need more research looking at the immune responses of people who have recovered from infection to be sure,” says Openshaw. Other immunologists agree. “Immunity to SARS-CoV-2 is not yet well understood and we do not know how protective the antibody response will be in the long-term,” says Erica Bickerton at the Pirbright Institute in the UK.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24532754-600-can-you-catch-the-coronavirus-twice-we-dont-know-yet/#ixzz6II0KSV3VTruthfreedom_{March 31, 2020
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The passengers were quarantined. That stopped the spread.
Not really. Eventually yes if you get kept in your cabin. But for an extended period they were on a cruise ship that was infected going about normal activities. On any given day everyone is in contact with everyone else on the ship in the sense that a person will be in contact with passengers or crew who are in contact with everyone else on the ship. In other words pick any two random people on the ship and the two of you will have someone in common who you have been in contact with on that day. So over a few days there was no way to avoid contact. Though I assume the eventual quarantine reduced it some but probably not much. An aside: it is really painful to listen to Rudy Giuliani. He has someone with extensive knowledge and he is frustrating both his listeners and his interviewee. I have learned a lot listening but found myself shouting at the computer screen for him to shut up.jerry_{March 31, 2020
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Jerry- The passengers were quarantined. That stopped the spread.ET_{March 31, 2020
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@7 Jerry You can have antibodies, but due to the rate of mutations, they could be only partially protective. Or minimally. Sometimes, having the 'wrong' antibodies is very dangerous (they can become lethal). The immune system is marvelous but a 'natural born killer'. We need more information. Right now even the specialists are guessing.Truthfreedom_{March 31, 2020
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We do not know about the immunity process right now
I would think there should be a quick test of the blood of everyone on the Diamond Princess. 83% did not get the virus. Why? Only 7 died, Why? What was the path for the 17% who did get it and survived. It is the perfect Petri dish. What about the Crown Princess? Another Petri dish and the recent Holland American ship returning from South America. I was on the Emerald Princess (last current voyage) while this was going on and we were wondering if any of the crew had transferred from the Crown Princess when they were in Hawaii in close time proximity. These cruise ship are the perfect research labs. Everyone on these ships are at most 3 persons away from everyone else on the ship. As in Sweet Caroline which is sung on every cruise ship sometime, "Hands touching Hands."jerry_{March 31, 2020
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@Jerry We do not know about the immunity process right now. We do not know if it is protective and for how long. We do not know either if, as Kairosfocus suggests, there are 2, 3 (maybe more?) strains of the virus. It has gone through a crazy amount of replicative cicles. There could be 2 waves of infection (as it happened in 1918). We need LOTS of data and people capable of understanding it.Truthfreedom_{March 31, 2020
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Thanks KF. I watched a video yesterday on this from another site and it mentioned the efficacy of zinc in this process. All I could think of was that Zicam is widely used when coming down with a cold. I wonder if they are related. Our family often jokes about Zicam. It works 100% of the time since every time we take it the cold goes away eventually. We don't know if it is psychological or actually has some therapeutic effect. Just after posting my comment, I was trying to provide my wife with a layman's account of what is going by describing transcription and translation. I said what I am saying was probably about 60% correct as I am far from an expert. Maybe we will all know more about these two processes after this is over.jerry_{March 31, 2020
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Jerry, Zelenko is emphasising one suggested mode, forming a gateway for Zn to get into the cell and wreck the replication process for the virus. There are others . . . e.g. helping modify receptor shapes through pH effects thus breaking key-lock fit and stopping invasion of the cell . . . and that is good, if a drug cocktail has several redundant modes of action it becomes exponentially harder for mutations to block it. My bet is, we don't really know. KFkairosfocus_{March 31, 2020
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There are three legs to the chair for normalcy to return, probably more. 1 Quick testing for virus, now down to 5 minutes with a new test. Who can go back to work. 2 A cure besides toughing it out with in-hospital care. Hydroxychloroquine maybe one of these cures. It apparently acts to prevent translation of proteins. Not sure if that is correct but someone here should know. Other cures? How do they work? 3 A test to determine if someone is now immune to the disease. So they can go about staffing the businesses and organizations that had to shut down. Probably additional steps but the above are key. I wish this would appear somewhere besides with Rudy Giuliani. Not that I don't believe it is correct but a lot of people will use him as reason to not pay attention to it. The edit function is back!!!!!!jerry_{March 31, 2020
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My concern, his statement 8 days.kairosfocus_{March 31, 2020
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