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Thinking More Deeply About Causation

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I put up a post on MindMatters today about the stock market with a provocative title – “Everyone Can Beat the Market”. It’s not actually about the stock market, but that was the area I was thinking about at the time. It was, in fact, a piece on thinking about causation.

Most people (including experts) tend to have a one-level view of causation. That is, they have a static idea of what the subject matter is, and then they look to see how the pieces bounce around within that static structure. That more or less works for physics. It totally fails everywhere else.

The fact is, in every social interaction, effects become causes of future happenings. Not only that, the effects modify not only the things modeled, but also the static structure that the model assumes. Imagine, for instance, if a gravity experiment actually changed gravity permanently.

A great illustration of this is a cartoon from XKCD.

Romance Drama Cartoon

The problem being described here isn’t just that people are complicated, it’s that the effects change the structure of the game itself. That’s why modeling it is so hard.

This has dramatic effects in everyday life that we don’t even recognize, because our faulty analogy of human causation with physical causation has programmed us not to recognize them.

In the article, I point out that the effects of investing decisions actually effect the market itself. We tend to think of the market as a static structure, but it’s not. The members of the market, the legal rules they utilize, the social rules they utilize, the relationships between the players – all of these things are subject to change.

Take WeWork for instance. It never actually made it to be a part of the market, but it’s failure to materialize will change the decision-making of the market and the precursors to the market for a long time. This means that it will be a *different* market than before. The typical decision-making will be different than before. The risk/reward analysis will be different than before, etc.

While this isn’t meant to focus on politics, I wanted to point out another way that this manifests. In the 2016 election, everybody said, “you have to choose one, so choose the lesser of two evils” (or at least that’s what my friends said). I decided to vote for no one, because no one met my minimum standard. Now, by myself, that does nothing. However, imagine that a large group of people had voted for no one. Do you think that this would be a phenomena that the pollsters would miss? While it is true that I would have failed to effect change of the outcome of 2016, if a large group did it, it could mean the change of the outcome of every election afterwards, as the powers-that-be who run candidates realize that they actually have to appeal to us, and not just run a “not-as-bad-as-that-guy” campaign. The popular mindset says that *this* present outcome is the only thing that matters. But that’s because they all view the game as static.

When you realize that the game itself changes based on your participation, you look at every decision you make differently.

This is why I don’t care about 99% of what psychology or sociology says. Nearly the whole field is chasing mathematical models, not recognizing that the choices you make changes the model itself.

Comments
Getting back to the OP, you don’t have to look further than recent news to see that decisions can be responsible for unforeseen events down the road. Trump orders the killing of an Iranian general. Tensions in the mid-east increase. Iran launches missiles at some bases. Tensions increase further. A Ukrainian airliner filled with Canadians gets shot down.Ed George
January 14, 2020
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SA
First, a greater tolerance and acceptance of homosexuality changes attitudes among people, and eventually changes social relationships.
I agree. Things have improved greatly since the time I was a teen.
The article cited talks about how boys are having a more difficult time binding with friends. The authors fail to understand that this breakdown in friendships is caused by the public’s greater acceptance of homosexuality, and not from an opposition to it. They recommend more tolerance, but that’s exactly what’s causing boys to fail to bond.
So, you are recommending less tolerance? When I was young, any boy who was slightly effeminate (not actually an indication of homosexuality, but that is a different story), were often bullied and beaten up by other teens. I would rather not go back to those days.
Homosexuality is a violation of trust that must be inherent in the relationships among boys and men.
You give teens no credit for empathy and rationality. In my experience, modern teens are far more mature than I was at that age.
If a close friendship between boys can become sexualized, then there is a danger.
Relationships between boys could always become sexualized. As can relationships between girls and relationships between boys and girls. How has SSM changed this?
When I was a kid, there was virtually zero possibility of homosexuality among boys,
Then you lived with your head firmly planted in the sand.
Yes, we could say “the only difference for gay people” is that there is less stigma for them. Ok, but what about the rest of society?
What about it? Society can no longer jail people for being gay. Society can no longer deny employment to someone for being gay. Society can no longer deny shelter to someone for being gay. Society can no longer persecute someone for being gay. The only downside I see is for people who want to be able to do these sorts of things.
In other words, it’s a huge reaction against moral liberalism, and SSM and gay rights are a very clear and visible target for these groups.
As are blacks and Mexicans and muslims and interracial couples. Should we take away their rights because white nationalism is on the rise? Shouldn’t we be addressing the nut-jobs who blame everyone else for their own failings?Ed George
January 14, 2020
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EG
How has SSM changed this? There were always homosexuals, and there always will be. The only difference is that the stigma associated with same sex attraction has decreased. Surely that is a good thing.
The OP here is touching on several things that are relevant to your response. First, it is focused on how a change in the environment is not limited to the thing directly changed. Just shifting to evolution for a moment, this is a key critique of evolutionary scenarios that attempt to be predictive. A change in one organism or species cause changes in the entire environment, not merely with the two competing species. But back to SSM and society, acceptance of same-sex marriage is one direct change, but it also affects society in other ways. First, a greater tolerance and acceptance of homosexuality changes attitudes among people, and eventually changes social relationships. The article cited talks about how boys are having a more difficult time binding with friends. The authors fail to understand that this breakdown in friendships is caused by the public's greater acceptance of homosexuality, and not from an opposition to it. They recommend more tolerance, but that's exactly what's causing boys to fail to bond. Homosexuality is a violation of trust that must be inherent in the relationships among boys and men. That's the key point. It violates trust. If a close friendship between boys can become sexualized, then there is a danger. If there was no (or extremely limited) possibility of such a thing, there would be closer friendships. When I was a kid, there was virtually zero possibility of homosexuality among boys, and I grew up in a neighborhood of big families with lots of kids - we were constantly playing sports and games in groups of boys. "Gay" was not a term in our lexicon, and not just the term, but the concept did not register. There was a lot of trust. But more to the point of the OP -- you state that "the only difference" (pre-SSM to post-SSM) is that the stigma is gone. But the thing here is that we can't restrict or limit the actual change that will occur when one part of the environment changes. Yes, we could say "the only difference for gay people" is that there is less stigma for them. Ok, but what about the rest of society? A huge change would be a greater acceptance of SSM itself. When people are more willing to accept a concept that they previously rejected, then this changes their views on other things. The change may be positive or it may be negative. The attitude of the public is not static. We might say "there has always been hatred of gays, now however, more people are accepting so that the overall population of gay-opposition is reduced". But new generations are rising and growing up. They add to the numbers of either acceptance or opposition to homosexuality. One area of research I like to look into on my own is the rise of ultra-right wing nationalism (alt right) among the young generations. At one time, this was something almost unheard of. Now, there are dozens of 'neo-Nazi" (so to speak), fascist, nationalist, alt-right sites, videos and groups that attract thousands of teen and Gen Z participants. In other words, it's a huge reaction against moral liberalism, and SSM and gay rights are a very clear and visible target for these groups. So, it's not just a one-way street. For some people (myself included) acceptance of SSM is not a good thing.Silver Asiatic
January 14, 2020
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JB
I also don’t want this to be about gay marriage, but one thing I wanted to point out is that one of the outcomes of the gay marriage normalization is that teenagers no longer can have deep relationships which don’t risk turning sexual.
How has SSM changed this? There were always homosexuals, and there always will be. The only difference is that the stigma associated with same sex attraction has decreased. Surely that is a good thing.Ed George
January 14, 2020
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When I was in graduate school I was introduced to a very complicated statistical technique called LISREL which analyzed the statistical correlation between several interrelated items. While the usual aphorism is
correlation does not mean causation
when this technique is applied to several interrelated factors causation can be teased out from the relationships.jerry
January 14, 2020
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Thus your realization "that the game itself changes based on your participation", as far as physics is concerned, has far deeper implications than you apparently realized in your article. Of primary overriding concern for us personally, the implications of it all play out like this,,,, although free will is often thought of as allowing someone to choose between a veritable infinity of options,,,
Scientists build a machine to generate quantum superposition of possible futures - APRIL 9, 2019 Excerpt: "When we think about the future, we are confronted by a vast array of possibilities," explains Assistant Professor Mile Gu of NTU Singapore, who led development of the quantum algorithm that underpins the prototype "These possibilities grow exponentially as we go deeper into the future. For instance, even if we have only two possibilities to choose from each minute, in less than half an hour there are 14 million possible futures. In less than a day, the number exceeds the number of atoms in the universe. https://phys.org/news/2019-04-scientists-machine-quantum-superposition-futures.html
,,, in a theistic view of reality that veritable infinity of options all boils down to just two options. Eternal life with God, or Eternal life without God. C.S. Lewis stated the situation for people as such: “There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, “Thy will be done,” and those to whom God says, in the end, “Thy will be done.” All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell.”
“There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, “Thy will be done,” and those to whom God says, in the end, “Thy will be done.” All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell.” – C.S. Lewis, The Great Divorce
Moreover, in order to support the physical reality of heaven and hell, I can appeal directly to two of our most powerful and precisely tested theories ever in the history of science. Special Relativity and General Relativity respectfully. As the following video shows, with General Relativity we find an ‘infinitely destructive’ eternity associated with it. And with Special Relativity we find an extremely orderly eternity associated with it:
Quantum Mechanics, Special Relativity, General Relativity and Christianity – video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4QDy1Soolo “But why was the big bang so precisely organized (1 in 10^10^123), whereas the big crunch (or the singularities in black holes) would be expected to be totally chaotic? It would appear that this question can be phrased in terms of the behaviour of the WEYL part of the space-time curvature at space-time singularities. What we appear to find is that there is a constraint WEYL = 0 (or something very like this) at initial space-time singularities-but not at final singularities-and this seems to be what confines the Creator’s choice to this very tiny region of phase space.” Roger Penrose - How Special Was The Big Bang? The destructive power of black holes is illustrated rather dramatically in the following quote by Kip Thorne: “Einstein’s equation predicts that, as the astronaut reaches the singularity (of the black-hole), the tidal forces grow infinitely strong, and their chaotic oscillations become infinitely rapid. The astronaut dies and the atoms which his body is made become infinitely and chaotically distorted and mixed-and then, at the moment when everything becomes infinite (the tidal strengths, the oscillation frequencies, the distortions, and the mixing), spacetime ceases to exist.” Kip S. Thorne – “Black Holes and Time Warps: Einstein’s Outrageous Legacy” pg. 476 Kip Thorne and Charles Misner, and John Wheeler wrote Gravitation (1973), considered a definitive textbook on general relativity.
Again, the implications for individual humans, to put it mildly, are fairly drastic. We, with either our acceptance or rejection of God and what He has done for us through Jesus Christ on the cross, are choosing between eternal life with God or eternal death separated from God: Verse:
Deuteronomy 30:19-20 This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live and that you may love the Lord your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the Lord is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Because of such dire consequences for our eternal souls, I plead with any atheists who may be reading this to seriously reconsider their stubborn refusal to accept God, and to now choose God, even eternal life with God, instead of choosing eternal death separated from God. Not to sound cliche, but that decision is, by far, the single most important decision that you will ever make in your entire life.
Turin Shroud Hologram Reveals The Words “The Lamb” – video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tmka1l8GAQ Matthew 23:33 .... How will you escape the judgment of hell? Jewel - Who Will Save Your Soul? (Official Music Video) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wBDDAZkNtk
bornagain77
January 14, 2020
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It could just be me, but in an article that is entitled 'Thinking More Deeply About Causation' on an ID website, I sort of expected that the fact Darwinists deny the reality of Agent causality altogether should have been more explicitly mentioned somewhere in your article. IMHO, that is the main and fatal flaw within Darwinian reasoning that needs to be hammered home time and time again..
“You are robots made out of meat. Which is what I am going to try to convince you of today” - Jerry Coyne – No, You’re Not a Robot Made Out of Meat (Science Uprising 02) – video https://youtu.be/rQo6SWjwQIk?list=PLR8eQzfCOiS1OmYcqv_yQSpje4p7rAE7-&t=20 Do You Like SETI? Fine, Then Let's Dump Methodological Naturalism - Paul Nelson - September 24, 2014 Excerpt: "Epistemology -- how we know -- and ontology -- what exists -- are both affected by methodological naturalism (MN). If we say, "We cannot know that a mind caused x," laying down an epistemological boundary defined by MN, then our ontology comprising real causes for x won't include minds. MN entails an ontology in which minds are the consequence of physics, and thus, can only be placeholders for a more detailed causal account in which physics is the only (ultimate) actor. You didn't write your email to me. Physics did, and informed (the illusion of) you of that event after the fact. "That's crazy," you reply, "I certainly did write my email." Okay, then -- to what does the pronoun "I" in that sentence refer? Your personal agency; your mind. Are you supernatural?,,, You are certainly an intelligent cause, however, and your intelligence does not collapse into physics. (If it does collapse -- i.e., can be reduced without explanatory loss -- we haven't the faintest idea how, which amounts to the same thing.) To explain the effects you bring about in the world -- such as your email, a real pattern -- we must refer to you as a unique agent.,,, some feature of "intelligence" must be irreducible to physics, because otherwise we're back to physics versus physics, and there's nothing for SETI to look for.",,, http://www.evolutionnews.org/2014/09/do_you_like_set090071.html
As well, it could just be me again, but in an article entitled 'Thinking More Deeply About Causation' on an ID website that mentions problems in 'modeling', the fact that mathematical axioms, computer models, and even the computers themselves, are all the result of human decisions, should have also been more explicitly mentioned in your article.
Algorithmic Information Theory, Free Will and the Turing Test - Douglas S. Robertson Excerpt: Chaitin’s Algorithmic Information Theory shows that information is conserved under formal mathematical operations and, equivalently, under computer operations. This conservation law puts a new perspective on many familiar problems related to artificial intelligence. For example, the famous “Turing test” for artificial intelligence could be defeated by simply asking for a new axiom in mathematics. Human mathematicians are able to create axioms, but a computer program cannot do this without violating information conservation. Creating new axioms and free will are shown to be different aspects of the same phenomena: the creation of new information. http://cires.colorado.edu/~doug/philosophy/info8.pdf - Greg Coppola to Tucker: "algorithms don’t “write themselves” Excerpt: "Basically, any software launch reflects to outcome of thousands of human decisions. If you made different human decisions you would get a different result. And so, if you see a resulting end product that seems to encode a bias of one sort or another, there must have been that bias in the process that produced the end result. Because, like I say, different human decisions that went into the process would produce a completely different result.",,, "In my experience, as algorithms get more complicated and more advanced, that only means that they have more human decisions going into them. So there is actually more opportunities for human beings to influence the final product.",,, "If people aren't able to think critically about all the information that they are being given, especially if there is this kind of illusion that maybe somehow technology exists in a world that is completely apart from humans. That somehow you can create a computer that will think for itself and be free of any human biases, then people can be easily misled or manipulated." - Google Insider, Greg Coppola, Talks Political Bias at Google On Tucker Carlson https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu5-VQuFU_g Recognising Top-Down Causation - George Ellis Excerpt: Causation: The nature of causation is highly contested territory, and I will take a pragmatic view: Definition 1: Causal Effect If making a change in a quantity X results in a reliable demonstrable change in a quantity Y in a given context, then X has a causal effect on Y. Example: I press the key labelled “A” on my computer keyboard; the letter “A” appears on my computer screen.,,, Definition 2: Existence If Y is a physical entity made up of ordinary matter, and X is some kind of entity that has a demonstrable causal effect on Y as per Definition 1, then we must acknowledge that X also exists (even if it is not made up of such matter).,,, Causal Efficacy of Non Physical entities: Both the program and the data are non-physical entities, indeed so is all software. A program is not a physical thing you can point to, but by Definition 2 it certainly exists. You can point to a CD or flashdrive where it is stored, but that is not the thing in itself: it is a medium in which it is stored. The program itself is an abstract entity, shaped by abstract logic. Is the software “nothing but” its realisation through a specific set of stored electronic states in the computer memory banks? No it is not because it is the precise pattern in those states that matters: a higher level relation that is not apparent at the scale of the electrons themselves. It’s a relational thing (and if you get the relations between the symbols wrong, so you have a syntax error, it will all come to a grinding halt). This abstract nature of software is realised in the concept of virtual machines, which occur at every level in the computer hierarchy except the bottom one [17]. But this tower of virtual machines causes physical effects in the real world, for example when a computer controls a robot in an assembly line to create physical artefacts.,,, <b<The mind is not a physical entity, but it certainly is causally effective: proof is the existence of the computer on which you are reading this text. It could not exist if it had not been designed and manufactured according to someone’s plans, thereby proving the causal efficacy of thoughts, which like computer programs and data are not physical entities. http://fqxi.org/data/essay-contest-files/Ellis_FQXI_Essay_Ellis_2012.pdf
As to this comment from your article:
When you realize that the game itself changes based on your participation, you look at every decision you make differently.
This principle actually, contrary to your claim that "(static models) more or less works for physics", has somewhat, played out in physics recently with the resent experimental realization of the 'Wigner's friend' thought experiment:
More Than One Reality Exists (in Quantum Physics) By Mindy Weisberger – March 20, 2019 Excerpt: “measurement results,, must be understood relative to the observer who performed the measurement”. https://www.livescience.com/65029-dueling-reality-photons.html Experimental test of local observer-independence - 2019 Excerpt: The scientific method relies on facts, established through repeated measurements and agreed upon universally, independently of who observed them. In quantum mechanics, the objectivity of observations is not so clear, most dramatically exposed in Eugene Wigner’s eponymous thought experiment where two observers can experience seemingly different realities. The question whether these realities can be reconciled in an observer-independent way has long remained inaccessible to empirical investigation, until recent no-go-theorems constructed an extended Wigner’s friend scenario with four observers that allows us to put it to the test. In a state-of-the-art 6-photon experiment, we realise this extended Wigner’s friend scenario, experimentally violating the associated Bell-type inequality by 5 standard deviations. If one holds fast to the assumptions of locality and free-choice, this result implies that quantum theory should be interpreted in an observer-dependent way. https://arxiv.org/pdf/1902.05080.pdf
This finding directly contradicts the 'Darwinian model' of a "world governed by impersonal physical laws that control human behavior along with everything else."
The Trouble with Quantum Mechanics – Steven Weinberg – January 19, 2017 Excerpt: The instrumentalist approach,, (the) wave function,, is merely an instrument that provides predictions of the probabilities of various outcomes when measurements are made.,, In the instrumentalist approach,,, humans are brought into the laws of nature at the most fundamental level. According to Eugene Wigner, a pioneer of quantum mechanics, “it was not possible to formulate the laws of quantum mechanics in a fully consistent way without reference to the consciousness.”11 Thus the instrumentalist approach turns its back on a vision that became possible after Darwin, of a world governed by impersonal physical laws that control human behavior along with everything else. It is not that we object to thinking about humans. Rather, we want to understand the relation of humans to nature, not just assuming the character of this relation by incorporating it in what we suppose are nature’s fundamental laws, but rather by deduction from laws that make no explicit reference to humans. We may in the end have to give up this goal,,, Some physicists who adopt an instrumentalist approach argue that the probabilities we infer from the wave function are objective probabilities, independent of whether humans are making a measurement. I don’t find this tenable. In quantum mechanics these probabilities do not exist until people choose what to measure, such as the spin in one or another direction. Unlike the case of classical physics, a choice must be made,,, http://quantum.phys.unm.edu/466-17/QuantumMechanicsWeinberg.pdf
bornagain77
January 14, 2020
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@5 Pater Kimbridge: 'What caused you to think about causation? Your free will?' 'You' is an 'outdated' pronoun. 'People' are just DNA having the illusion 'it' is people. Lol. Meanwhile, in the real world...Truthfreedom
January 14, 2020
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What caused you to think about causation? Your free will?Pater Kimbridge
January 13, 2020
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Yes, we see that all panning out, don't we ? Very perceptive, if I may say so, KF. The march to nihilism, ironically including 'wokeism' !Axel
January 13, 2020
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PPS that includes the digital computer.kairosfocus
January 13, 2020
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JB, a key point is that we can have self-moved, morally governed creatures, whose very rationality is deeply pervaded by that structure. In that context, issues of memory, affect, knowledge (and its cousin, opinion taken for knowledge) and understanding (or misunderstanding), with feed-back and gated feed forward are all relevant. And BTW, it won't affect your marriage was about as true as many notorious policy selling propositions of recent decades. What was shifted was the perceived . . . as opposed to actual . . . legitimate nature of marriage, thus of sexual identity and context of child upbringing, also this was an attempt to further entrench in a central social phenomenon the discarding of the vision that we have a creation order, morally governed nature that is manifest to the eye of sound reason as built in natural law that transcends state power and which built-in law thus sets the context for the civil peace of justice -- due balance of rights, freedoms, responsibilities. This means the state has become a God-substitute, an idol. We have lost our way and opened the door to outright nihilistic will to power. We will need reformation to recover from the cascading civilisation-level damage in progress. KF PS: There are higher-order models that learn and evolve their structures in path-dependent ways. The problem, of course, is that once lags, memory and feedback are involved, all sorts of instabilities walk in the door.kairosfocus
January 13, 2020
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I also don't want this to be about gay marriage, but one thing I wanted to point out is that one of the outcomes of the gay marriage normalization is that teenagers no longer can have deep relationships which don't risk turning sexual. The claim was that "this won't affect your marriage". That was true. It does, however, effect the environment that the next generation grows up in. It changes how people look at each other, and their likelihood to establish deep friendships. The sociologists failed to see this because they looked at the effects as merely being just like now, but with gay people also getting married. Perhaps the sum of changes are for the better (again, that's not my point either way). My point is merely that this sort of analysis - where you analyze how the effects change the model altogether, is rarely done and/or taken seriously.johnnyb
January 12, 2020
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