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DEVELOPING NEWS: San Bernardino incident may be [lone wolf/ independent Razzia/ Assassin Cult] IslamIST terrorism

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Here (video unlikely to embed at UD).

Live TV: http://livestream.com/accounts/9262780/events/3189705

Live radio: http://player.radio.com/listen/station/knx-1070-newsradio

U/D Dec 4, looks like we have pics of recovered weapons, looks like Semi-auto AR15s with stabilising front hand grips, low mag optical sights and two 9mm parabellum semiauto pistols:

sb_guns

Confirmation of explosive devices on live TV just now, that is not normal. END

PS: Links (Drudge?):

14 DEAD; 17 INJURED...
Dressed in ski masks and military gear...
KNBC-TV LIVE...
KCAL-TV LIVE...
KFI-AM LIVE...
KNX-AM LIVE...
AP LATEST...
Active-shooter drills every month at Inland Regional Center...
ISIS Extremists Celebrate Shootings With America Burning Hashtag...

PPS: The following was first observed on Sept 11 2001 on an Islamic Dawah site (subsequently vanished save in the web archives):

us_islam100yr

Notice the immediate zone, the action agenda and the after 100 years, i/l/o the Muslim Brotherhood 1982 The Project 100 year global conquest plan. (Go to p. 15 for English text.)  Also, cf. the 1991 Explanatory Memo document. (English, from p. 15. Backstory on the 80 bankers boxes of documents capture here.)

Money shot clip from the MB 1991 Memo approved by the North America Arm and to have been submitted to leadership in Egypt:

“The process of settlement is a ‘Civilization-Jihadist Process’ with all the word means. The Ikhwan [Muslim Brotherhood] must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and “sabotaging” its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God’s religion is made victorious over all other religions.”

PPPS: U/D Dec 17, a tale of two school systems in the face of mass shooting attacks:

israel-1

Sorry to be a bit sharpish.

521 Replies to “DEVELOPING NEWS: San Bernardino incident may be [lone wolf/ independent Razzia/ Assassin Cult] IslamIST terrorism

  1. 1
    kairosfocus says:

    Let us keep an eye on this developing news story, especially on how it is likely to be spun.

  2. 2
    kairosfocus says:

    We may be dealing with the AK-74, cf. the linked. U/D: Nope, two AR15 style rifles, likely semiauto. To have 14 dead, 17 wounded, many apparently seriously so suggests significant skill, as does what the police chief reports as likely pipe bombs . . . even if fuzing has been defective.

  3. 3
    kairosfocus says:

    Wikipedia — often a reasonable tracker of a developing story (but this is locked): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_San_Bernardino_shooting

  4. 4
    ppolish says:

    Obviously Islamic Terrorism. And obviously workplace violence. Islamic Terrorist Workplace Violence.

  5. 5
    kairosfocus says:

    What gives me pause is the bombs and the preparation beforehand. This is not somebody just going mad with a gun.

  6. 6
    ppolish says:

    Agree KF. And they had to have had help and training. Probably a network of workplace violence sleeper cells out there. Ready to “go postal”.

  7. 7
    jimmontg says:

    The media have gone and done something I didn’t think they would actually sink so low to. The media seems like it wants to downplay the events in Ca.(we mustn’t offend the Muslims). Above all they do not want us to think it was an Islamic terrorist attack. I do not give much credence to conspiracy theories, but I’m not so sure anymore. I just thought that too many people believe the same things, like the leftists. They are so blinded by their ideologies that they cannot comprehend that the main reason most Americans disbelieve Climate Change isn’t so much because of the science. It is because of their leftist solutions to fix the problem. To far left and giving too much away.

    Not one story about Thorium reactors for energy, why? Why the hatred of nuclear power which can be generated safely? Maybe because that isn’t their agenda. I honestly do not know what they want for their Utopian idea of fixing this planet, but I’m absolutely certain that they are so blinded by their worldview they couldn’t figure it out anyway.

    These are the same ideologues who said if we just disarmed, stopped frightening the Reds and let the Communists be free and not live in fear of us that everything would be just fine. A strong President brought an end to that falsehood. I actually hate to say it, but I believe an Islam with power cannot live at peace with the world. It was spread by the sword and in too many countries is still (Like every Islamic country in the world) kept by the sword. This issue must be addressed. What happened in San Bernardino Ca. was another Islamic terrorist attack. Gun control seems to be the left’s solution to fixing tragedies like this. I have actually fallen into a miasma of depression because I think a nuclear war will happen, not if, but when and who all.

    What will happen when an Islamic nuclear device is exploded over a non-Islamic city? I hate to say this, but with this President if it happened to an American city I don’t think any kind of effective counter-measure would be implemented. Well it’s your guess as to what Obama would do, but my money’s on lots of empty words and attacking the wrong country, just like Bush. We can only hope that the proper counter-measures are actually in play and working now to keep it from happening.

    I don’t think that an Islamic government would allow it to happen, they could never win in such a scenario, but immigrating, infiltrating and replacing the native populations may work and as they have stated over the centuries, they can afford to wait. If the Islamic countries do not get control of their radicals the leftist solutions may never come to fruition as they will be too concerned with a World War, but then again maybe in the aftermath…..

    One thing is certain, hiding what appears to be another terrorist attack isn’t going to prevent anything except a backlash against the same media. I hope an extreme backlash happens myself, I find it amazing that they haven’t noticed the loss of readership so far. I think they attribute it the general stupidity of those of us who haven’t seen the light.

  8. 8
    kairosfocus says:

    PP, you are clearly looking at a mini bomb factory in a garage (notice the approach to the townhouse and to vehicles, the authorities realise this is a different level they are dealing with); explosives chemistry and the mechanics of fuzing are utterly non-trivial and prone to blowing oneself up. I am suspicious that they have said so little on the explosives used, reloading propellant? Homebrew? Semtex? There is an online relationship that moves to marriage (if such was formalised, notice the Fiancee visa) which sounds like importation of what is called a black widow going back two years. The vehicle used was rented several days before the incident and yet in the post attack search we did not hear of prominent advertisement of a licence number. Weapons, ammunition, safe house and military style kit acquired on an income that should not fit such. Reports of online and telephone contact with the international Jihad movement. A kill-wounded ratio that is very high, especially for a what two minute shooting attack by those who should be novices (accurate aimed rapid shooting is difficult and requires frequent extensive and initially closely supervised practice [there are a lot of accuracy killing bad shooting habits] that expends a lot of ammunition, which may explain the .22 long rifle ammo . . . there are adapters that will put such through a 5.56 mm). Very little inside the room eyewitness report on what happened . . . contrast Bataclan, likely they have been told to be silent save for those approved. You are looking at weapons bought 2 – 4 years ago, on the dribs and drabs of information doled out. Notice, silence on purchasers but the store is lamplighted as a convenient focus for anger. That extreme selectivity on information too is highly suspicious — the obvious management of the story that holds back things that it would be normal to hear. This sounds like micro-management from very high up . . . high up that we should not trust. KF

    PS: Sleeper cells are a patent tactic, used for 9-11. Workplaces and other soft, headline grabbing, panic spreading targets. Why is there no organised, available in seconds pervasive organised civilian marshals corps in the US? There are millions of the obviously willing and you need first armed responders in seconds when police are likely ten to thirty minutes out in adequate force. Instead we hear disarm the public as the solution [make more soft targets and create a helpless dependent public], likely to trigger decisive internal alienation of those who will for cause see this as first steps to a Fascist takeover a la 1984 Big Brother etc. I wonder if those pushing disarmament as the solution at every opportunity recognise that the US Revolution was triggered by initial steps of a disarmament campaign in the teeth of the continual threat of French-Indian war? As in ask just what were minute men c April 18/19 1775?

  9. 9
    kairosfocus says:

    JM, If there is micro-management from high up, media would sing off the same hymn sheet and especially when there is ideological identification with the progressives. I have watched for 14 years on how, consistently we do not learn from the MSM basics about the history of Islam, its sources, its expansion, the ideology behind Islamism and its ties to classic sources and history. For instance Jihad by bands carrying out hit loot run raids, razzias was where Mohammed started, and he is held up explicitly as model. Our very word Assassin speaks to the Assassin cult and its use of hashish to pump up suicide attackers who specialised in hitting high officials, exploiting the doctrine that those who fall in jihad go straight to paradise. Look, 9-11 itself was on the 318th anniversary but one day of the pivotal turn against Jihad expansion, the charge by Jan Sobieski of Poland with 20,000 horse that broke the siege of Vienna Sept 12, 1683. That is Bin Laden’s message to a history and dates mad culture was, I take over from the high water mark of the Caliphate using Western symbols and inventions to make my point. Starting with the airplane [invented in the USA] crashed into skyscrapers [ditto] to try to take down US financial power. Military and political centres also targetted, itself a lesson in the strategy to be used. Refusing to admit that Islam means submission (to Allah, his “revelation” and “prophet” thence warriors and law) and peace is redefined as such hopeless submission and subjugation, hence dhimmis reduced under religious apartheid and paying protection money designed to be at an impoverishing rate. The perpetual war between dar ul islam and dar ul harb with at most temporary hudnah truces to regroup and rebuild. The revelation through the Holyland Foundation trial of the settlement-jihad process meant to penetrate, destabilise and set upn beach heads now so advanced in Europe and advancing in the USA. The revelation of the The Project document seized by Swiss Financial Police dating to 1982 and outlining a 100 year global conquest plan by Ikhwan, the Muslim Brotherhood. The doctrine of the black flag army starting from the direction of Khorasan and which all must seek to join, moving to a core area in the Syria-Iraq area from which the ME is subjugated by Mahdi the last Caliph, aided by prophet Isa [a twisted reworking of Jesus], the Gharqad tree massacre of Jews which is part of this and which is embedded in the Hamas covenant. Hamas being a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. Mahdi to subjugate the whole world. BTW I have preserved a copy of the 100 year subjugation plan map which I searched out on 9-11 itself (I also found shockingly detailed plans for nukes, now vanished). All of this is easily documented but it is consistently marginalised and made to sound like it is the problem. When truth is the enemy, something is deeply wrong. KF

    PS: LIFTR http://kairosfocus.blogspot.co.....ility.html

  10. 10
    kairosfocus says:

    Updates: http://kairosfocus.blogspot.co.....t-may.html

    LAT gives a few details, not enough: http://www.latimes.com/local/l.....story.html and no firing 65 – 75 bullets in 2 minutes and killing 14 while wounding is it 21 more is not “spraying” that is high quality shooting reflecting significant training.

  11. 11
    jimmontg says:

    KF #10 You are precisely correct. The amount of rounds expended and the resulting carnage speaks for itself. The shooters had been trained. The police on the other hand with the barrage of over 500 rounds expended to dispatch one man and one woman doesn’t speak well of their firearms training.

  12. 12
    kairosfocus says:

    JM: I had not thought on that, but you are right, the audio shows guns on spray-pray auto with that steady 10 beats per sec pop pop pop . . . (It should be disciplined, short rapid successive suppressive bursts, giving cover to the advancing squads who are flanking, for preference.) The terrorists were better shooters than the police, but obviously elected suicide by police when cornered. This suggests, determination not to be taken alive and squeezed for information, not just the 72 virgins story. KF

  13. 13
    kairosfocus says:

    Pics of the recovered weapons.

  14. 14

    Brandon here in San Bermardino. This is the first day I’ve ventutrd out since the attacks. Headimg downtown right now. Thimgs seem pretty normal.

    Some thimgs about certain specifics of the attack aren’t being reported accurately. I’ll get to that later.

  15. 15
    kairosfocus says:

    CY, it would be very good to hear from someone who was in the vicinity. KF

  16. 16

    Well I wasn’t exactly in the vicinity. San Bernardino covers a large area. I live in the north, and these events happened about 10 miles away in the south part of the city.

    Here’s what I CAN tell you;

    SAN BERNARDINO:

    A city of roughly 220,000 people, 60 miles east of Los Amgeles.

    It’s the seat of San Bernardino County, the largest coumty in the US. The city declared bankruptcy several years ago and significantly reduced its police force over that time by 2/3; which is remarkable, given the swift action of the SBPD and other forces in the area. San Bernardino is the 2nd poorest large city in the nation after Detroit (I believe).

    The area of the city where the massacre occurred is known as the “Hospitality District,” and is a non-residential area with most of the city’s upscale businesses and hotels.

    The area of the city where the purpetrators engaged in a shootout with the police is just to the east of the Hospitality area, in a low income residential neighborhood. Much of San Bernardino is low income neighborhoods of this type, with a majority Hispanic Population.

    REDLANDS

    Redlands is where Sayed Farook and his wife lived in a condominium complex. Redlands is an affluent city of about 70,000. There’s a large private university there (University of Redlands), and many of the apartments and condominiums in the area house students at the university; many of whom are foreigners. The city borders San Bernardino to the south east.

    INLAND REGIONAL CENTER

    IRC is not a treatment center, but an office building. This is a detail that the networks and other MSM seem to be getting wrong. People were wrongly led to picture classrooms full of disabled kids. It’s not that kid of facility. If there were any children there (I think I saw one in a vide of police rescuing people from the building), they were there not for treatment, but toeither apply for services, or to meat with a case manager.

    IRC is a quasi-government agency, which provides services to 31,000 adults and children in two counties, who are diagnosed with developmental disabilities. They also service Riverside County to the south. It is the largest of 21 such regional centers in California. Much of what they do is provide case management to all qualifying individuals in the two counties. It’s their job to assure that all qualified individuals recieve treatment and care,which would include placement in residential and treatment facilities (Board and Cares, ICF/DDs, or higher levels of care, depending on need).

    The facility where the shooting took place is fairly new (about 7-8 years). It’s much larger than the former facility, which is also in the Hospitality are of the city.

    The people at the “Christmas party” were not IRC employees. They were employees of the County of San Bernardino, and they rented the conference room from IRC.

    So Sayed Farook did not work at that building; another detail the media is getting wrong. He likely had a cubicle or office at one of the many county buildings that dot the city. Apparently his workspace has been secured as part of the investigation.

    IRC, for such a large facility, has very low security. As I stated, it’s a quasi-government agency, meaning that they are private (as are all the RCs in CA), but they do the work of a government agency. Their work can be compared to that of the County Department of Mental Health;just a different clientele. Thus, sice they are not technically a government agency, they are not required to have the same level of security as government facilities. I’m sure that will change soon. I was in the facility a few months ago inquiring about employment,and I was able to walk in the front door and talk to a receptionist in a lobby area, without ever running into armed security.

    So if we put 2 and 2 together here, Farook chose this location because of its vulnerability. His main work site is likey under much heavier security. They don’t as yet know the motive; but I would guess that it has something to do with Jihad. That’s just a wild guess.

    Farood was at the same location a year ago for a similar event. This indicates that he had time to case the place then and know about exits, parking arrangements, freeway locations (there’s the 10 freeway about 2-3 blocks to the south). Also, reports indicate that he (and another unknown person) purchased the weapons about 2 years ago.

    Well, that’s all I can offer for now. If I think of, or learn anything new, I’ll post an update.

  17. 17
    kairosfocus says:

    CY, thanks, useful backdrop. The soft target effect is clear. KF

  18. 18

    kf,

    Your suggestion of a civilian police corps of sorts is simply common sense.

    What is happening in American society right now is a schizophrenic approach to security, largely due to the mixed signals given by the current administration, and its interlocutors.

    They want to place the security of the American people squarely in the hands of government and government alone. Thus, the rush to gun control as the only solution to gun violence. This creates a nation of paranoid and helpless citizenry,who view the government as the enemy; thus all the conspiracy theories sprouting that what happened here in San Bernardino was a “false flag” event perpetrated by the government, and employing actors to carry out a fake incident. The internet is rife with such claims, and they’re swifter than the left’s rush to judgment.

    If our citizens were more involved in their own sense of security through extensive training on how to handle firearms, how to investigate suspicious activity and report to authorities, the nation would be in much better shape. Unfortunately, the only way now to serve one’s country in that capacity is through a full-time paid career in government agencies. That needs to change. No wonder the left and the right are at each other’s throats.

    There’s a solution if we get the right leadership. I’m keeping an eye on Presidential candidates such as Ted Cruz and Carly Fiorina, as the ones who have the capacity for such a vision.

  19. 19

    KF,

    Also, I believe the silence from witnesses, probably ordered by the FBI stems from a highly warranted suspicion, based on neighbors’reports at the Redlands location, that there’s a sleeper cell in that city. This is not over yet, and is not likely to be over soon.

    The FBI will likely be expanding their presence in the area.

  20. 20

    I also offer this from former House Speaker Newt Gingrich:

    http://m.washingtontimes.com/n.....8-51609021?

    [ No doubt the people of Paris felt safe in this state of unilateral disarmament. They had been assured of their security. Ordinary Parisians didn’t have guns, and neither did most of their police officers. For a time, they had the luxury to consider this a mark of civilization.

    After the barbarity of last month’s attacks and the Charlie Hebdo massacre earlier this year, it should be obvious that this is a luxury no Western city can afford. Grim reality has reasserted itself, and once again the cost of our willful blindness has proved devastating.

    The truth of this should be clear for all to see, even if, for ideological reasons, those in the White House and State Department refuse to admit it. The methods of violent Islamic supremacists are not a secret: low-tech attacks against soft, undefended targets in order to spread the greatest level of terror and carnage. In a free society, there are more such targets than the police can possibly secure on their own against determined enemies such as these. And in the face of such a threat, we have no choice but to prepare good, law abiding citizens to defend themselves and others in their communities.

    In the United States, we have been blind to our most exposed target in part because the threat is so unthinkable. Yet the grim reality is plain: our schools — and as a result, our children — are extraordinarily vulnerable to those who would do us harm.

    The only measure of defense at most of our schools is a sign that reads “This Is a Gun Free Zone.” If the perils of this policy were not so atrocious, the hubris would be laughable. It reminds us of the sign that hung in the Gettysburg town cemetery forbidding the discharge of firearms — on the exact ground where Union soldiers would be forced to make a desperate stand against Pickett’s Charge. As much as we’d like to think otherwise, the battlefield is not always of our own choosing.

    If you are a parent dropping your child off at school tomorrow, stop for a moment, look at that sign, and ask yourself, “Does this really keep my child safe from the threat of war?” If you are a college student, take a good long look at that sign. Your life or death might be affected by the mentality behind it. And if you are a teacher or professor, ask yourself, “Really: what do I do if that sign doesn’t stop them?” ]

    Ponderous thoughts.

  21. 21
    Mung says:

    I’m I just weird, or is the best defense against an active shooter another active shooter?

  22. 22
    Brent says:

    @ Mung,

    Yep. A couple of years ago I purchased some combat boots just for doing yard work and stuff, not realizing how comfortable they’d be, reminding me of my time in the service. Would now love to get my hands nice an’ cozy with another M-16 A2. Any active shooter around would be wise to make me their first target.

    Alas, I’m residing in a gun free country. Thankfully all criminals abide by the gun laws, leaving me feeling particularly safe. NOT!

  23. 23
  24. 24
    Brent says:

    Something I had posted to another thread forum after Paris attacks:

    Hmm . . . It seems we need another math lesson in this thread. LOL. Subtraction (in this case through death) results in fewer of whatever you started with. Sorry if that comes across as too sarcastic, especially because I understand your reasoning. But your reasoning is based on an ideological fallacy. Namely, if we kill any Islamsits/Muslims then we are going to make them mad at us and therefore create more terrorists. This is not true, but even if it were, it’d still be the best option.

    It is not true because if we set out on a sustained mission to eradicate what we call extremist Muslims, eventually their numbers will dwindle because not only will they be dying at an increasing rate, but their recruitment efforts will be severely hampered. Perhaps there will always be a small number somewhere, but if we never let up on this sustained mission, there is only one thing that can happen, a large decrease in the ranks of terrorists and terrorist attacks.

    On the more logistical side, I think there is some misunderstanding of how much training is necessary to be an effective jihadi. While these extremists can work out of small cells to carry out missions, they were trained prior, at least some of them, to know how to operate these cells. Cells would always need to be sought out by our counter-terror units, but primarily our focus would be on eradicating training centers and preventing new ones from cropping up. This approach helps reduce killing so-called non-combatants.

    Further though, I think we need a much tougher stance which will speed up our ability to curb terrorist numbers quickly. This is very non-PC, but being politically correct (which always means ideologically and practically wrong) is what has gotten us where we are. I would declare to the Muslim world that those who denounce radical Islam must take a stand and, well, denounce radical Islam. That would mean not only to voice one’s opinion that murder in the name of Allah is wrong, but to actually physically distance oneself from those who are not so willing to denounce such terrorism. At the same time, declare that those who are not willing to denounce such radical Islam may, and likely will, place themselves in the crosshairs of our efforts to help the radicals meet Muhammad early, in hell.

    It sucks to place otherwise innocent people in such a bind, but it is the fault of the terrorists first, and the fault of those, to a lesser degree, who find themselves in such a bind. What would happen is that those who denounce radical Islam and or try to physically distance themselves from such radicals would begin to be killed by the radicals. And, well, there goes recruitment efforts even further.

    Sorry for such a long post! But please let me continue.

    I happen to live in a place where there was an almost identical line in the sand, Okinawa. When the war came here, meaning when the American military began to pound the island and invade, the local innocent Okinawans were forced to choose to go north and take their chances with the Americans (who they were told would kill them) or go south and take their chances with the Japanese (who they knew from experience were not nice and would possibly kill them — not to mention there was little confidence that the Japanese military could win the battle which meant they were going to be in American hands anyway, if they were not killed during the battle). Those who wanted to go north were killed by the Japanese as spies and traitors. To this day, there are a very small number of Okinawans that blame the Americans for the war coming here and think the Americans were at fault for making their lives hell, but because of those who were able to get north got treated well by our military, the overwhelming number of Okinawans were (and still somewhat are even in the face of a somewhat bitter battle currently about ridding Okinawa of the U.S. military presence here) thankful to America. It is hard to ignore the evidence of who was treated better in whose hands. The Japanese military beheaded many Okinawans. The American military fed them.

    And with this, we don’t have anti-American sentiment in Okinawa. It might appear that there is, but what we really have, on a much smaller scale than imagined, is anti-military/war sentiment in Okinawa. I knew very well one of the top people in the anti-base movement here (haven’t met him for many years now), and it is a religious peace cult at the heart of the whole movement. The large numbers they have gotten to protest do not even understand the real foundation of it all. Now, I’m all for peace and anti-war groups, but for the love of God, no war and peace, PLEASE go and protest at the terrorist training camps and in front of Kim Jong-un’s palace and places like that where you just may find a human or two who are actually PRO-WAR! Just who the #!@! is PRO-WAR??? Damn it, I think it’s the stupidest thing on earth.

    Anyway, not acting in a sustained fashion to eradicate and continually control and monitor radical Islam is what in fact feeds more terrorism. People are more drawn to what they see as effective or “winning”. Not the other way around. If we are not extremely tough on terrorism from its very roots and there continue to be “successful” attacks, THAT will feed more terrorists and terrorism. So, as I said, even if it were true (again, it’s not) that engaging in a sustained war effort against the radicals would potentially increase the number of such radicals, not doing so has the same effect (and I would argue to a larger degree).

  25. 25
    daveS says:

    KF,

    Then, think . . . agree/disagree? With what? Why?

    The first video is labeled accurately—it’s clearly a rhetorical device.

    “the Virtual President talks about why politicians want to talk about gun control rather than crime control …”

    The speaker insinuates (but doesn’t say directly) that politicians who favor gun control are tyrants.

    Clearly there are less sinister reasons one might support tighter restrictions on guns. Which is not to say that gun control proponents are correct, but we can’t even have a civil discussion of the issue here in the US.

  26. 26
    kairosfocus says:

    DS, that is my precise point. Some matches are being played with that point to civil war and balkanisation. And that should be obvious on history of that sad region and on that of the American Revolution starting April 18/19 1775. When advocates of gun control [–> confiscation] are not even acknowledging those concerns and that history that is a red flag. A bigger red flag was the contemptuous dismissal and attempted public shaming in response to prayer and attempted condolence in a context where — while the events were in progress — people caught up were calling for prayer. Especially, when the obvious fact is that terrorism is hitting soft targets, where a civilian marshals corps would provide 10 sec initial buy time response (which is often enough hardening to materially affect outcomes) when police response is more like 10 minutes and SWAT team more like 30+ ; I here highlight the Israeli example with schools. The recent mass shooting took what, two minutes? If the pipe bombs had triggered right, another couple most likely. What I hear which is of concern is pols playing the deep polarisation game by manipulating emotions. That is why I thought hearing another side speaking some of its points might trigger a more reasonable balance. Remember, the US Navy is the guarantor of freedom of the seas. A massive internal american convulsion is something the world cannot afford. Not in a day of chaos. Let me red flag Iran and nukes, to give context at many levels. KF

  27. 27
    daveS says:

    What I hear which is of concern is pols playing the deep polarisation game by manipulating emotions. That is why I thought hearing another side speaking some of its points might trigger a more reasonable balance.

    If you do acknowledge that the speaker in the Virtual State of the Union video is also playing the “deep polarization game”, and you rebuke him for doing so, then I agree with you 100%.

  28. 28
    kairosfocus says:

    DS, first, deep polarisation depends on media dominance, either general or in critical mass circles (think Alinsky). I have no reason to believe that whoever this is has that — and no I have no idea who this is, part of the point. I think there is something deliberately provocative, but in the end largely re-balancing as satire, hard satire but satire. At most he may go overboard at points. I put it to you that his substantial points and the wider context are generally not heard but had better be seriously reckoned with. And, instead of the topic being dismissing the man, I would like to hear some specific reckoning with the issues. It is those issues and linked dynamics that are liable to bite very hard. Including the underlying issue of jihad. KF

  29. 29
    daveS says:

    DS, first, deep polarisation depends on media dominance, either general or in critical mass circles (think Alinsky). I have no reason to believe that whoever this is has that — and no I have no idea who this is.

    Ok, I was unaware that “deep polarization” was a term of art. Let me just call it “divisive rhetoric”.

    I think there is something deliberately provocative, but in the end largely re-balancing as satire, hard satire but satire.

    Satire? You might have been taken in by some variant of Poe’s Law. No, that’s exactly what many people believe here.

    At most he may go overboard at points. I put it to you that his substantial points and the wider context are generally not heard but had better be seriously reckoned with. KF

    As a lifetime resident of the US, I can confirm that we hear this stuff all the time.

  30. 30
    kairosfocus says:

    DS, rhetoric may promote polarisation, agit prop backed by power creates the deep divisions (and distractions from key issues) I am concerned over. Perhaps you hear “this stuff” all the time, I am not so sure that the issues of concern do register at top level, i.e. it looks like a very familiar pattern of marginalisation and march of folly driven by increasingly dominant groups is happening. I find it astonishing that instead of hardening, the agenda that dominates would systematically soften targets. That is why I spoke to civilian marshals and 10 s vs 10 – 30+ minutes, with the Israeli school hardening initiative as a direct parallel. The linked shaming and silencing push underscores and points to yet deeper issues. The systematic failure to provide an accurate assessment of the Jihad threat, is a further concern. Just as a measure of what event was Sept 11 2001 the 318th anniversary less one day? What is the 1982 document known as The Project? The 1991 HLF one that speaks of Settlement Jihad? KF

  31. 31
    daveS says:

    DS, rhetoric may promote polarisation, agit prop backed by power creates the deep divisions (and distractions from key issues) I am concerned over.

    Yes.

    That is why I spoke to civilian marshals and 10 s vs 10 – 30+ minutes, with the Israeli school hardening initiative as a direct parallel.

    Interesting idea, but I don’t know if that would work here. I searched for “civilian marshall”, and this is one of the first things that came up. Judging by the comments, support for such a program in the US would be lukewarm at best.

    Edit: Additional discussion at the same forum. One telling comment:

    No, its a step towards tyranny. The more I think about it logically, the less I like it.

  32. 32
    kairosfocus says:

    DS, You are at war, part of the 1400 year war, now heating up and going global — Dar ul Islam vs Dar ul Harb, and the former plays by C7 Arabian rules. One of the things your dominant mediaand key figures utterly refuse to frankly face. I suggest you already have a linked programme, concealed carry permits that could be extended. But maybe acknowledging that you are at war and are experiencing jihad by bands is a problem. Notice, DURING the raid the woman pledged allegiance to The Islamic State, i.e. the self-declared Caliph. Who, holds a PhD in Islamic Studies. KF

  33. 33
    daveS says:

    KF,
    Yes, we are at war. But I suspect that the people on that forum would say this doesn’t mean we should submit to tyranny and give up our way of life.

    The program they are discussing is very much like an extended concealed carry permit, by the way. [Edit: At least according to the OP.]

  34. 34
    kairosfocus says:

    PS: 1982 The Project:

    http://www.investigativeprojec.....sc/687.pdf

    (Scroll to p 15 for English)

    The 1991 Holy Land Foundation Explanatory Memo on Civilisation/Settlement Jihad

    https://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/misc/20.pdf

    Again, go p 15 on for English.

  35. 35
    kairosfocus says:

    DS, civilian marshals, linking say concealed carry to a registered trained security corps connected to the national guard and assigned to their workplaces, churches, schools, public gatherings etc would not be tyranny. Indeed methinks your constitution speaks of a militia that expresses collective duty of self defence and is the context of the 2nd amdt. Where essentially the able bodied adult population is implied as the pool of available manpower. If things get bad enough conscription may be necessary on the lines of the Swiss, who IIRC still have a uniform set, a real assault or battle rifle with full auto setting and a sealed loadout of ammunition in their cupboards at home. I understand, when artillery is retired from the army, citizens are encouraged to purchase. And as I was informed by a Caribbean descendant, in that country, shirking is a gaol offence. KF

  36. 36
    daveS says:

    KF,

    DS, civilian marshals, linking say concealed carry to a registered trained security corps connected to the national guard and assigned to their workplaces, churches, schools, public gatherings etc would not be tyranny. Indeed methinks your constitution speaks of a militia that expresses collective duty of self defence and is the context of the 2nd amdt.

    I wouldn’t call it “tyranny” myself, but I think the forum comments show that even gun enthusiasts here would have problems with any such program that is connected with the government. And a completely private organization with armed volunteers patrolling the streets? I’m guessing that wouldn’t go over very well either (remember Blackwater?).

    I can only speak for myself, but I sense that Americans are just not willing to take this step at the present time.

  37. 37

    The virtual president in the first video posted by KF @23 is Bill Whittle of PJ Media. Here’s his blog:

    https://www.billwhittle.com

  38. 38
    kairosfocus says:

    DS, it is wake up and smell the coffee time, only it’s more like gunsmoke. KF

  39. 39
    kairosfocus says:

    CY, okie, I think I know of PJ media vaguely. Paywall, subscription site. KF

  40. 40
    daveS says:

    KF,
    Maybe so, but as you can see, your civilian marshal idea would be framed by some as exploiting a tragedy to curtail our freedoms, just as proposals to restrict access to guns are. It’s extremely hard to argue against that here. [Edit: And I think the Bill Whittle video contributes to shutting down that debate.]

  41. 41

    DaveS

    Private civilian marshalls who work for the companies they protect, is not something the public could hinder.

    Here’s a scenario for you:

    Amazon.com has a huge distribution center less than a mile away from the area of San Bernardino where the two shooters, Farook and Malik were killed by police. Thousands of civilians work in the facility each day.

    Lets say that Farook amd Malik were not detected by police as they left their Redlands home for a secomd mass attack, and Amazon was their target.

    Let’s also assume that Amazon had the forsight to train a force of their operation with the effective use of a firearm against an aggressor, paid them a higher rate, while they performed the same jobs as the rest of their employees, and that those trained were selectively scheduled such that all 3 shifts were covered.

    Some of these trained individuals were stationed outside the facility, some on the inside, and they attended monthly training sessions and drills along with the rest of the employees.

    Now of course at this point we realize how dumb Farook and Malik are, having chosen Amazon as their “soft target” as they head into what is essentially a booby trap.

    Let:s say that Amazon and a whole slew of other companies begin similar security measures, and it becomes common pracice across America. Let’s assume also that it proves successful. Companies not setting up such security measures prove to be much more vulnerable to attack.

    It would not take long for leaders in government to realize what works, and to employ these measures in what they previously declared as “gun free zones.”

    BTW, talking heads in the media often talk about the “gun culture” in America. America doesn’t have a gun culture. It’s an anti-gun culture, if anything. Gun ownership in America compared to 30 years ago has decreased significantly. The deadliest mass shootings in America have occured in the last 7 years, under the current anti-gun administration. Is there a correlation here? You tell me.

  42. 42
    kairosfocus says:

    DS, my suspicion is, you would not want people who think like that. The issue is duty of collective self defence in an age of jihad by bands carrying out razzias including assassin cult suicide attack razzias. And notice, Paris proved that gun confiscation will not stop it, only a couple of weeks back, so this is a case of latching on to a wave of panic, piggybacking on distraught emotions to polarise and push an agenda that is now patently suicidal. Go look up the battle of Tours, and understand what it took to halt the first wave of Islamist expansionism, 150 miles from Paris. KF

  43. 43
    kairosfocus says:

    CY, a private initiative like that just might work — though of course it would be limited. KF

  44. 44

    KF,

    Some of PJ Media’s material is free to view, while some is “Members only.”

  45. 45

    KF,

    What works in America is most often something that began in the private sector. The government trying to do something similar would be a disaster, due to the ideological commitments of bureaucrats.

  46. 46
    kairosfocus says:

    DS, I forgot. In China some time back there was a mass knife attack. A leaf spring and an abrasive grinder plus a drill press eith some wood handles would make a pretty effective super-kukri . . . a Kopis type heavy “mouth” sword that would chop, slash and stab with horrific effect; skill level, what, about one “shop” class and utterly resistant to weapons bans. Mix that into the recent wave of attacks in Israel. Try a dozen co-ordinated attacks like that in malls, offices, public spaces, classrooms or lecture halls. Remember, those in Assassin cult razzias WANT to die during the attack. Deluded to imagine murder opens the doors of paradise. Do you see what we are now up against? KF

  47. 47
    kairosfocus says:

    CY, I see your point. Though, the right folks could do it, I would start with sheriffs — shire reffs who led with both policing and soldiering; maybe we are looking at a riff on the French Gendarme system which is a national police network integrated with the Army. KF

  48. 48
    daveS says:

    CannuckianYankee,

    Private civilian marshalls who work for the companies they protect, is not something the public could hinder.

    Sure, I have no problem with companies providing security for their facilities. And if Amazon can improve the safety of their workplace using your idea, I’m all for it. I have close relatives who work there.

    It would not take long for leaders in government to realize what works, and to employ these measures in what they previously declared as “gun free zones.”

    Well, I guess we’ll see.

    BTW, talking heads in the media often talk about the “gun culture” in America. America doesn’t have a gun culture. It’s an anti-gun culture, if anything. Gun ownership in America compared to 30 years ago has decreased significantly. The deadliest mass shootings in America have occured in the last 7 years, under the current anti-gun administration. Is there a correlation here? You tell me.

    It does vary be region. I live in a very rural area where almost everyone I know has guns. And they are very pro 2nd-amendment and anti-gun control in general.

    And I don’t know if there is any real correlation between those two things.

  49. 49
    daveS says:

    KF,

    DS, I forgot. In China some time back there was a mass knife attack. A leaf spring and an abrasive grinder plus a drill press eith some wood handles would make a pretty effective super-kukri . . . a Kopis type heavy “mouth” sword that would chop, slash and stab with horrific effect; skill level, what, about one “shop” class and utterly resistant to weapons bans. Mix that into the recent wave of attacks in Israel. Try a dozen co-ordinated attacks like that in malls, offices, public spaces, classrooms or lecture halls. Remember, those in Assassin cult razzias WANT to die during the attack. Deluded to imagine murder opens the doors of paradise. Do you see what we are now up against? KF

    Why would you think I don’t?

    I’m just pointing out that it would take a lot of selling to get this civilian marshal idea off the ground. Some people are deeply suspicious of this sort of thing.

  50. 50

    DaveS

    The key is the vulnerability factor as the San Bernardino shooting illustrates. Mass shooters seek out the most vulnerable. Mass shootings occur most often where people are unarmed. That’s the pattern.

    So I DO see a correlation. Decreased gun ownership = increased likelihood of mass shootings.

  51. 51

    KF,

    I should clarify:

    It’s not that the government could not do such an initiative; it’s just that they would need the trial and error ingenuity of the private sector to set the standard. Goverment doing it alone would only create an inefficient, inadequate bureaucracy, which would take an act of congress to reform. Congress itself is terrible when it comes to reform.

    So the initiative needs to start privately, where reforms to systems occur much more rapidly, and then the optimal system adopted by goverment.

    I agree, it should begin at the local level.

  52. 52
    kairosfocus says:

    CY, boy do I get your point, and it does not take a big bureaucracy to be as arthritic as you describe. Office politics driven by what is felt the big bosses want, shaped by conventional wisdom in turn shaped by ideologies that only occasionally intersect with the real world. KF

  53. 53
    kairosfocus says:

    DS, that institutionalised strategic blindness and linked marginalisation of those who would correct, are exactly what the jihadists are counting on. KF

  54. 54

    KF

    The most successful companies are those that minimize bureaucratic temdencies, and which empower regular employees to make important decisions, as they work in teams. That seems to be the culture these days. Large established and successful companies try to screen out overly competitive loners, who ate not likely to ameliorate well to a team environment. They tend to do this right from the application process with assessments that determine a potential employee’s ability to adapt to the “collective.”

    That’s an asset in the private sector that I believe is sorely lacking in big governent bureaucracies that don’t have to perform in order to continue operating. Goverment bureaucracies opetate on the notion that problems are solved by throwing money at them.

    Business bureaucracies tend to be much more hesitant to spend money unnevessarily, and so are much more likely to utilize proven methods, or to invent new methods on their own.

    So while there CAN be the same systemic hinderance to reform at the private sector level, it is much less likely.

    Let me give you an anectotal example.

    I’ve been seeking employment recently after being disabled for a number of years. Fortunately I am now employed.

    As you are probably aware, most large companies and government agencies do their recruiting online. If you want to work for them, you must fill out an online application in most cases.

    I’ve been seeking employment both in the private sector and in government. I’ve noticed a stark contrast between the pre-employment assessments given to prospective employees from private businesses, compared to government agencies.

    The government of course is much more interested in one’s on-paper credentials, over their experience, and I have yet to encounter a government assessment that measures a person’s ability to work in teams.

    Businesses, on the orher hand (and certainly depending on the nature of their business) are more concerned with a person’s honesty, their ability to adapt to change, their willingness to accept and learn from constructive criricism, and their ability to work as a member of a team.

    I think this is significant. Private businesses today seem to prepare their employees well for potenrial reform, while goverment agencies tend to seek out those committed to the status quo. Reform just isn’t happening in the public sector because of this dynamic.

    Of course I’ve made this assessment anecdotally, but it would be interesting to see what actual studies suggest.

  55. 55
    kairosfocus says:

    CY,

    Think about the implications of Garbage Can Organisation theory:

    http://is.theorizeit.org/wiki/Garbage_can_theory

    >>The Garbage Can theory, or model, attempts to explain some organizational decision-making anomalies-in particular, decision making by “organized anarchies” where preferences are not clear, technology is not clear, or participation is fluid.

    Problems, solutions, and decision makers move from one choice to another depending on the mix of recognized problems, the choices available, the mix of solutions available for problems, and outside influences on the decision makers. In short, problems are uncoupled from choices giving an image of “rummaging around” inside a garbage can. Problems are addressed based on a solution choice, but choices are made based on shifting combinations of problems, solutions, and decision makers. In this sense, decision-making appears “pathological” instead of rational.

    The Garbage Can theory allows problems to be addressed and choices to be made, but does not necessarily following a rational process. Poorly understood and addressed problems can drift into and out of the garbage can process, depending on the situation and factors. >>

    Contrast that with John Boyd’s OODA loop and the blitzkrieg principle of distraction (and pinning), concentration, breakthrough at a key point, victory by disorganisation and bypass to the strategic prize.

    KF

  56. 56

    KF,

    Yup. That about nails it. The garbage can model seems to suggest that bureaucracies rummage through the garbage can for problems in the same way they rummage through for solutions. So each individual is acknowledged and awarded for their participation in this rummaging activity.

    Organizations involved in reality are aware of problems without a need to rummage, because members of teams working together have more eyes and ears fixed on the reality of what’s happening, each desiring to contribute to efficiency; especially when increased production is the driving force.

    Agit prop organizations, IMHO are “garbage model” operations in some ways.

    But more than them, I found this:

    https://faculty.washington.edu/krumme/gloss/g.htmlI found this
    https://faculty.washington.edu/krumme/gloss/g.html

    [ The G.C.M. was originally formulated in the context of the operation of universities and their many inter-departmental communications problems….. ]

    Why is that not surrising? The modern university, that leaves security solely in the hands of professional campus police forces, while creating the illusion of more security by adopting “gun free zone” rhetoric rather than actual student empowerment, and an awareness of security issues.

    No wonder student organizations of late are demanding “safe spaces” to protect themselves from perceived “microaggressions.” It’s the university environment that creates the lapse in logic. Maybe it has something to do with philosophy being an elective, rather than a prerequisite, and multicultural and diversity studies replacing courses in sound judgment.

    I can think of no better “soft target” institution for radical jihad attacks than the modern public university. In that environment there’s mixed signals all around: unprepared faculty, students who believe their security in the most trivial of ways is the sole responsibility of the administration, and inadequate, not up to the challenge, campus police forces.

  57. 57
    Brent says:

    daveS @49,

    Some people are deeply suspicious of this sort of thing.

    I’ll admit that I’m a little confused on your and KF’s discussion and who supports what exactly, but . . .

    Deeply suspicious? You bet! And with good reason. When we have a government that is drunk on its power, even its most dangerous and deceptive power of “protecting “ITS” people”, and in the name of “protecting “ITS” people” it talks about taking back its “”granting” of a right”, namely to keep and bear arms, which was specifically written precisely to have a chance to defend against a government that was so drunk, then yeah, it might tend to get people a little concerned.

    I personally want total and completely free access to carry, concealed or not, whatever gun one wants. That sounds scary on the surface, but I do believe the adage that an armed society is a polite society. In a society like that the smart people will stay alive by keeping their weapon at their side. Those who are not so smart will not be around long after making a fatal decision, but they are the same ones who can’t be trusted not to make such fatal decisions even if carrying guns for private citizens was banned.

    Confiscating weapons from the public is a vote for the criminals to rule.

    I know my thinking isn’t politically correct, but:
    PC = PW (political correctness equals practical wrongness)

  58. 58

    Recap: (I hope this makes some sense. I’m not as articulate as I am verbose).

    Organizations, which promote independent thinking in the context of teamwork, are more effective in responding to environmental changes, than are organizations which promote independent thinking in context with specialized training and non-collective decision-making; which can often deteriorate to a “garbage can” approach to problem solving, where the problems themselves are alleged based on nothing more than the random assumption of individual expertise, predicated on a dependence on the adequacy of specialized academic training, regardless of actual evidential, peer reviewed or otherwise data, in contrast to first-hand collective knowledge and experience. (Long sentence, but try to follow the logic).

    Such a contrast in dynamics illustrates the contrast in approaches to problem solving between non-production motivated organizations vs. production motivated organizations.

    This overall dynamic, in my recent thinking, determines the effectiveness of workplace violence management initiatives, rendering organizations, which are not production motivated to be more succeptible to violence than organizations where collective insight is empowered through common motivations towards productivity and distraction/hinderance to productivity avoidance.

    An organization that is production, rather than service oriented, is much more equipped to handle structural changes necessary for the increase or mere continuation of production. Thus, from a workplace violence perspective, such organizations are better equipped structurally to address needed operational changes to assure both safety and security issues, which affect production.

    The types of organizations, which promote individual concern for safety and security based on a need to increase productivity, are organizations such as private businesses and public services where production is a motivating factor.

    Organizations, which fit into the service vs. production group would include most large, complex government agencies, where meeting a certain productivity quota is not a motivating factor, and private organizations, which model a service vs. a production framework.

    The private, non-profit organization; Inland Regional Center, may be an example of a private organization that fits into the service model. Problems are assessed through purported expertise, as opposed to collective experience and response. It takes a shakeup of the syatem, such as the recent terrorist attack to recognize vulnerabilities, and to adequately respond.

    It should be taken into account that my assessments are not based on any actual in-place dynamics, where there are actual organizations in the present where safety and security at a jihad combative level, are now part of an overall productivity structure. But the dynamics are now in place within such organizations, which will allow them to be far more equipped to address workplace vulnerabilities to acts of extreme violence, than would an organization with merely a public service, non-production and subsequent profit morivation.

    This is why I believe that the private sector WILL set the standards necessary to effectively combat the inevitable jihad level attacks, which the current administration has invited upon us through ideologically motivated inaction on both domestic and international levels.

    Thus, if we want to combat jihad here at home, we as a free people are on our own. It’s time to take action without expecting that our government will do it effectively for us. It’s time for the private sector to set the standard upon which all other sectorst will be forced to follow.

    This does not mean that we blindly arm ourselves without serious consideration of the potential dangers of owning firearms; rather, as a free people, we acknowledge that we have within ourselves, the collective resources to model an effective strategy and response to domestic terrorism. If we don’t act as individuals and private organizations to combat this very real and society-transforming threat, we have no cause to expect our government to do it for us; especially not when the rallying cry of government representation in these United States is “we the people.”

  59. 59
    kairosfocus says:

    Brent:

    I know this can be confusing, which should not be 14+ years after 9-11, but due to the failure of major media and of many influential leaders we lack a proper framework to see clearly and act swiftly and soundly.

    That is itself a red flag as 1400 years of history and many witnesses to what it is like to be a dhimmi (so-called protected person and part of a protected subject community) exist.

    There has been censorship of material but unpleasant truth, and deliberate marginalisation of those who dare to speak out.

    Hence, the smear-term, islamophobia.

    (Notice, we do not usually see Christophobia or Christianophobia? What does that tell you in a day when, globally Christians are arguably the most hated and attacked target group for persecution?)

    Next, we need to start thinking in terms of John Boyd’s OODA strategic decision making loop:

    O – Observe
    O – Orient
    D – Decide
    A – Act

    To decide and act aright in good time, you need to have people capable of quickly, soundly “reading” the situation, thus who have command of facts, history, theory, models, the dynamics etc so they credibly can look and spot the pattern based on clues. Where also, people need to be able to spot and read not only steady trends but new factors including those that change the game or break the trend line and start a new one. Getting ready to fight the last war does not help.

    But, it is possible to misunderstand, with destructive consequences that may come out short term or in the longer term.

    (The Japanese spoke of victory disease, others of strategic overstretch by which what one can do fast is much more challenging to hold as determined counter forces mobilise and come after you. Or more passively, the long term adjustments are adverse.)

    To decide and act effectively, you have to have the resources and capabilities to act.

    What is drawing attention is the rise of razzias.

    Let us dig in a bit. The issue is that the San Bernardino incident, on the heels of Paris ans Mali, red flags that World War IV (actually the renewed 1400 year IsalamIST war) is going full global. Starting with Jihad by bands carrying out razzias, destabilising, demoralising, panic inducing hit- kill- hurt- loot/destroy raids that create a widespread sense of helplessness before the Jihad. Sometimes (soft enough targets) hit-run, at other times assassin cult-type hit, kill, die [and in their minds, paradise and the houris].

    Further as the already linked documents in 34 above show, such is part of a 100 year global subjugation strategy. Yes, a global conquest plan.

    These documents were seized as evidence in Switzerland (MB 1982 The Project) and for the HLF trial (Explanatory Memo, 1991). We face civilisational/settlement jihad, establishing radicalised enclaves that are designed to gradually dominate and intimidate, subvert and overthrow. Terror-inspiring attacks multiplied by agit prop and strategic deception through jihad of tongue and pen (read CAIR and agents of influence in media, education, government, institutions etc), are all a part of this.

    The massive media and leadership failures over 20+ years have left us without a basis to properly read the situation.

    We now need unwelcome remedial education, with a lot of unlearning to do.

    Both for the razzia problem and for the wider settlement jihad.

    (And yes, mass immigration and settlement of incompatible and hostile enclaves is, historically, invasion. If you doubt this observe how the Western Roman Empire was in large part destabilised then destroyed by that process, fatally weakening it. The Eastern half was weakened by mutually exhausting struggles with the Persians, disease and massive economic decline multiplied by disaffected and angry provinces in Syria and Egypt. That is why those were the first, pivotal provinces to fall to the Jihad. Within 100 years, North Africa and Spain fell and France was almost successfully invaded. The invaders were stopped 150 miles fro Paris and were then turned back in years of fighting ever more southwards in France. Spain took 700 years, ending in 1491. And that is why in 1492, Columbus sailed the ocean blue, bringing ultimately the resources of the Americas to bear which is what energised the West to turn back the tide, over the next 500 years. Now Islam is resurging as Western Civlisation fallsinto what looks like a fatal malaise along lines of Rom 1, and yes that is relevant . . . it exposes the inner dynamics of why Rome failed as a Republic then went Empire only to fail again largely due to the rot within. And I am leaving out the story of Asia and of Africa.)

    We face settlement jihad, razzias, especially assassin cult style suicide attacks. [Yes that word came from that cult that haunted the ME for 200 years, with a steady stream of hashish pumped up suicide attackers. It was the Mongols that wiped it out.]

    All of this is in the face of the Rom 1 malaise and it is multiplied by taqqiya, strategic deception through jihad of tongue and pen.

    San Bernardino was an assassin cult type razzia, as was Paris. In Mali, the defences were soft enough for attackers to get away, similar to what seemed to happen with the Mall attack in Kenya. That says something about the weakness of states in Africa.

    The key point is that soft target massacres are intolerable and the needed counter should be there in 10 seconds, not 10 – 30+ minutes, by which time dozens would be dead. Hence, civilian marshals, armed, trained, there on the spot through the right of self defence. And BTW, we are also talking, defences against suicide bomb vest and drive in bomb killers.

    We are at war, war that will not be short, war that means the easy comfort of the past is permanently over.

    We are dealing with a radical Islamofascism with deep roots in sources and history that understands peace to mean submission to Allah and his prophet and law, by way of subjugation under his warriors and state with the Caliph at its head. Which expects Mahdi, the last Caliph, to conquer the world. In which context we must realise that the Ottoman Caliphate was terminated by the secularising Kemal Attaturk in 1924, and by 1928 the Muslim Brotherhood was formed in Egypt to restore the “rightful” situation, with organisation, financing, education and jihad as integral components.

    When on Sept 11, 2001, Bin Laden attacked on the 318th anniversary less one day from the lifting of the 1683 siege of Vienna by Jan Sobieski of Poland, his symbolic message was we take over from the high tide mark of the Caliphate and we do so by taking the features and symbols of Western domination and using them as weapons to destroy from within. Here, using jihad by assassin cult bands. Airplanes to take out financial skyscrapers — both major symbols of America. Yes, Islamists are really into symbols, signs, portents, who is the strong horse etc etc.

    Likewise, Al Bagdahdi (who holds a PhD in Islamic Studies) has announced himself Caliph of The Islamic State.

    That is the context of discussing target hardening and mobilising the potential of a free people.

    In the face of all this, it is increasingly clear that our elites and influencers are caught up in a cloud cuckooland, march of folly mentality. They are in denial of the magnitude of the Islamist threat, or even think that a little stirring up of marxian dialectic cultural and class conflict based on disaffected minorities will enable the push of the radical secularist progressivist agenda.

    Hence, instead of target hardening and prevention of settlement jihad, they are playing with the fire.

    And, they tried to take advantage to push shaming and silencing of condolences and prayers.

    In service to further target softening and creation of deeper dependence on the state (who will be 10 – 30 minutes out when seconds count with lives on the line).

    Where, in the USA, you have the anomalous but pivotal situation that collective self defence by a free people including freedom to keep and bear arms, was put in the constitution by insistence of the people. Notice, the bill of rights is a set of amendments passed with the main document based on popular insistence driven by dissenters, especially the Baptists.

    My own view is that a good slice of the Swiss model now needs to be brought back in, and CY has showed that private sector initiatives may be the best way to get it started.

    So, the issue is OODA loop, i/l/o short and long term issues and trends.

    KF

  60. 60
    kairosfocus says:

    CY, once you are reading it right, you are reading it right. And the garbage can organisation dynamic is what takes over when people lose contact with reality: what is termed a problem and what is a solution have no connection to reality much less one another, and it is all a faction fight over who is the most effective manipulator as the musical chairs game plays out faster and faster and faster. Then the OODA loop gets royally dislocated into feeding marches of folly and marginalisation of those who try to warn — who can be targetted as not being good team players. We can only hope the crash is fast enough and painful enough but not fatal, to get us back up. But I am increasingly pessimistic. KF

  61. 61
    daveS says:

    Brent at #57,

    Thanks for the perspective. I have family members who carry regularly, if not every day, and their views sound similar to yours.

  62. 62
    kairosfocus says:

    DS, a live sample. Now, would such be open to the Swiss model? KF

  63. 63
    daveS says:

    KF,

    I would like to hear the opinion of those who served in the US military.

    The program would be significantly different than the Swiss one, as these people would have to regularly carry their weapons (to ensure fast response times) instead of leaving them at home.

    If we’re talking about an obligation to serve as a marshal for on the order of a decade (like the Swiss) after leaving active duty, I don’t know how popular that would be. That’s certainly a heavy responsibility.

  64. 64
    Brent says:

    daveS @63,

    I believe that most in the military (or former like myself) would be of the mind to want to do such duty. There could be different levels of duty; full time with normal pay, part time, or volunteer, thereby allowing those who want the freedom to mainly pursue an alternate career still be a part of protecting our country.

    I’d get a kick out of being armed security as my side job 😉

  65. 65
    Brent says:

    Thanks KF. I wasn’t totally ignorant of the history of this war we find ourselves in, and now am less so. And yes, it is nothing less than a world war. Viewing as anything less is wishful thinking.

  66. 66
    daveS says:

    Thanks, Brent.

  67. 67

    KF

    Hybrid doctor-soldier, first responder to IRC?

    You might want to have a look at this:

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/03/.....index.html

    The first I’ve heard this. Significant.

  68. 68

    KF at 60,

    Sort of like what happened at the IRS, for example: decisions to hold up and/or prevent approval of tax exempt status to Tea Party and other conservative groups; ideology taking the place of sound policy. I wonder what garbage can that one came out of.

  69. 69

    Brent @ 64

    There is a very significant push to get private sector jobs for combat veterans. The potential for a civilian marshall service is certainly available right there. Who better to function effectively in this capacity than already combat-hardened, expertly trained citizenry?

    But I’m not picturing a force led by any government entity: rather, a new kind of militia run by the private sector. Not a group of rifle-bearing ideologically extreme right-wing hoodlums camping out in the fringe-wilderness, ready ro take out the government if need be; rather, a useful, well-trained, committed and above all, professional urban and suburban force sustained through contributions by intetested parties in the private sector.

    Check out the link at 67. Apparently an element of this idea is already in the formation phaze in response to local gang violence. Doctors bearing assault weapons as first responders. Not soon enough, mind you (and very unfortunately for San Bernardino), but it’s a step in the right direction.

    Thoughts?

  70. 70

    More significant developments:

    Farook’s father to Farook re: his desire for the caliphate to unfold: “…be patient. In 2 years Israel will not exist.”

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015.....-dad-says/

  71. 71
    Brent says:

    CY,

    That all sounds very reasonable. Sincerely. However, I’d like to note that, in my opinion, some and perhaps most of those fringe-wilderness types felt compelled to be so by a government that wouldn’t allow such a force to be created. I’m sorry to say, but I still don’t think the government will allow it, and this will create more fringe-wilderness types.

    I believe the federal and even state governments are severely threatened by an organized and trained force that isn’t securely under its thumb, so it is very unlikely to get off the ground. Apparently they are even threatened by the Tea Party, so . . .

    I’d love to be proven wrong, though. I’m all for trying. We’re really just talking minutemen here. What could be more American?

  72. 72
    kairosfocus says:

    Brent, it’s World War IV, the Cold war having been the unacknowledged III. Alternatively, it’s the 1400 year war. KF

  73. 73

    Brent,

    A valid concern I think the context is important here. Private companies in california already hire armed security. The only differenve here is that these are regular workers with an extra assigned duty to train and respond in that capacity in the event of a perceived or actual threat, in the same way as the doctor with the assault rifle in the linked article.

    I think there is a significsnt difference between anti-government militias and private sector workers, who are professionally trained to respond to acts of workplace violence and/or terrorism. Such a force is not anti-government, but in a first-responder, supportive role to local law enforcement, who don’t possess the manpower and resources necessary to be present at critical life-saving seconds.

  74. 74
  75. 75
    Brent says:

    CY,

    Well I think the idea is great and shouldn’t present a threat to the government. I guess I see need for more armed security than what you are suggesting and therefore more of a militia type force which is where my concern is focused; will the feds quash that idea? Can/Will state militias/National Guard be called upon?

    And your links are quite interesting. So the President seems to say that ISIS terrorists aren’t here, but the FBI has known full well that they are? Nice Barack, nice.

  76. 76
    kairosfocus says:

    Brent,

    I am surprised in one sense, and on second thought chillingly NOT surprised in another, that you did not receive adequate briefings on the relevant history.

    I thought, a quick web search should turn up plenty.

    Nope, hard to find, especially in one piece and place.

    Okay, let me give a first clip from MEF, the first 100 years as a basic fact of history, from Raymond Ibrahim:

    http://www.meforum.org/3182/hi.....-conquests

    ___________________

    >>The Historical Reality of the Muslim Conquests

    by Raymond Ibrahim
    Jihad Watch
    March 1, 2012
    Send

    Because it is now almost axiomatic for American school textbooks to whitewash all things Islamic (see here for example), it may be instructive to examine one of those aspects that are regularly distorted: the Muslim conquests.

    Few events of history are so well documented and attested to as are these conquests, which commenced soon after the death of the Muslim prophet Muhammad (632) and tapered off circa 750. Large swathes of the Old World—from the India in the east, to Spain in the west—were conquered and consolidated by the sword of Islam during this time, with more after (e.g., the Ottoman conquests).

    By the standards of history, the reality of these conquests is unassailable, for history proper concerns itself with primary sources; and the Islamic conquests are thoroughly documented. More importantly, the overwhelming majority of primary source materials we rely on do not come from non-Muslims, who might be accused of bias. Rather, the foremost historians bequeathing to posterity thousands of pages of source materials documenting the Islamic conquests were not only Muslims themselves; they were—and still are—regarded by today’s Muslims as pious and trustworthy scholars (generically, the ulema).

    Among the most authoritative books devoted to recounting the conquests are: Ibn Ishaq’s (d. 767) Sira (“Life of Muhammad”), the oldest biography of Muhammad; Waqidi’s (d. circa. 820) Maghazi (“Military Campaigns [of the Prophet]”); Baladhuri’s (d. 892) Futuh al-Buldan (“Conquests of the Nations”); and Tabari’s (d.923) multi-volume Tarikh al-Rusul wa al-Muluk, (“History of Prophets and Kings”), which is 40 volumes in the English translation.

    Taken together, these accounts (which are primarily based on older accounts—oral and written—tracing back to Muhammad and his successors) provide what was once, and in the Muslim world still is, a famous story: that Allah had perfected religion (Islam) for all humanity; that he commanded his final prophet (Muhammad) and community (Muslims) to spread Islam to the world; and that the latter was/is to accept it either willingly or unwillingly (jihad).

    It should be noted that contemporary non-Muslim accounts further validate the facts of the conquests. The writings of the Christian bishop of Jerusalem Sophronius (d.638), for instance, or the chronicles of the Byzantine historian Theophanes (d.758), to name a couple, make clear that Muslims conquered much of what is today called the “Muslim world.”

    According to the Muslim historical tradition, the majority of non-Muslim peoples of the Old World, not desiring to submit to Islam or its laws (Sharia), fought back, though most were eventually defeated and subsumed.

    The first major conquest, renowned for its brutality, occurred in Arabia itself, immediately after Muhammad’s death in 632. Many tribes which had only nominally accepted Islam’s authority, upon Muhammad’s death, figured they could break away; however, Muhammad’s successor and first caliph, or successor, Abu Bakr, would have none of that, and proclaimed a jihad against these apostates, known in Arabic as the “Ridda Wars” (or Apostasy Wars). According to the aforementioned historians, tens of thousands of Arabs were put to the sword until their tribes re-submitted to Islam.

    The Ridda Wars ended around 634. To keep the Arab Muslims from quarreling, the next caliph, Omar, launched the Muslim conquests: Syria was conquered around 636, Egypt 641, Mesopotamia and the Persian Empire, 650. By the early 8th century, all of north Africa and Spain to the west, and the lands of central Asia and India to the east, were also brought under Islamic suzerainty.

    The colorful accounts contained in the Muslim tradition are typified by constant warfare, which normally goes as follows: Muslims go to a new region and offer the inhabitants three choices: 1) submit (i.e., convert) to Islam; 2) live as second-class citizens, or “dhimmis,” paying special taxes and accepting several social debilitations; 3) fight to the death.

    Centuries later, and partially due to trade, Islam came to be accepted by a few periphery peoples, mostly polytheists and animists, who followed no major religion (e.g., in Indonesia, Somalia), and who currently form the outer fringes of the Islamic world.

    Ironically, these exceptions are now portrayed as the rule in America’s classrooms: many textbooks suggest or at least imply that most people who converted to Islam did so under no duress, but rather through peaceful contacts with merchants and traders; that they eagerly opted to convert to Islam for the religion’s intrinsic appeal, without noting the many debilitations conquered non-Muslims avoided—extra taxes, second-rate social status, enforced humiliation, etc.—by converting to Islam. In fact, in the first century, and due to these debilitations, many conquered peoples sought to convert to Islam only to be rebuffed by the caliphate, which preferred to keep them as subdued—and heavily taxed—subjects, not as Muslim equals.

    Meanwhile, as U.S. textbooks equivocate about the Muslim conquests, in the schoolrooms of the Muslim world, the conquests are not only taught as a matter of course, but are glorified: their rapidity and decisiveness are regularly portrayed as evidence that Allah was in fact on the side of the Muslims (and will be again, so long as Muslims uphold their communal duty of waging jihad).

    The dissimulation of how Islam was spread in the early centuries contained in Western textbook’s mirrors the way the word jihad, once inextricable to the conquests, has also been recast. Whereas the word jihad has throughout the centuries simply meant armed warfare on behalf of Islam, in recent years, American students have been taught the Sufi interpretation of jihad—Sufis make up perhaps one percent of the Islamic world and are often seen as heretics with aberrant interpretations—which portrays jihad as a “spiritual-struggle” against one’s vices.

    Contrast this definition of jihad with that of an early edition of the venerable Encyclopaedia of Islam. Its opening sentence simply states, “The spread of Islam by arms is a religious duty upon Muslims in general.… Jihad must continue to be done until the whole world is under the rule of Islam.… Islam must completely be made over before the doctrine of jihad [warfare to spread Islam] can be eliminated.” Muslim legal manuals written in Arabic are even more explicit.

    Likewise, the Islamic conquests narrated in the Muslim histories often mirror the doctrinal obligations laid out in Islam’s theological texts—the Koran and Hadith. Muslim historians often justify the actions of the early Islamic invaders by juxtaposing the jihad injunctions found in Islamic scriptures.

    It should also be noted that, to Muslims, the Islamic conquests are seen as acts of altruism: they are referred to as futuh, which literally means “openings”—that is, the countries conquered were “opened” for the light of Islam to enter and guide its infidel inhabitants. Thus to Muslims, there is nothing to regret or apologize for concerning the conquests; they are seen as for the good of those who were conquered (i.e., the ancestors of today’s Muslims).

    In closing, the fact of the Muslim conquests, by all standards of history, is indisputable. Accordingly, just as less than impressive aspects of Western and Christian history, such as the Inquisition or conquest of the Americas, are regularly taught in U.S. textbooks, so too should the Muslim conquests be taught, without apology or fear of being politically incorrect. This is especially so because it concerns history—which has a way of repeating itself when ignored, or worse, whitewashed.

    Raymond Ibrahim is a Shillman Fellow at the David Horowitz Freedom Center and Associate Fellow at the Middle East Forum>>
    ___________________

    This is of course 400 years before the Crusades, which — strictly — were limited counter-offensives, mostly inept and ill disciplined. (At least two ran into serious trouble in Anatolia, where there was a zone of devastation left by Seljuk IIRRC Turks, having inflicted major defeats on Byzantium. Those defeats of 1070 were direct backdrop, as just before that time with an inept Emperor, much of the former lines of the former Roman holdings had been restored in and around Mesopotamia etc.)

    Richard, Lionheart, is a major exception.

    Note, a key backdrop to the expansion from the 630’s was that Byzantium and Parthia had fought to mutual exhaustion by 628.

    KF

  77. 77

    jimmontg @ 7

    Not all media is hesitant to inquire when you have this:

    https://youtu.be/VnI7OhkGIjg

    Press conference at mosque in San Bernardino. Female reporters were separated from their male counterparts for this event. Notice a heightened refusal to answer questions regarding which members might be the focus by FBI agents.

    There was another interview at this very same mosque from the previous day, conducted by a female reporter, whete she asked 3 other members, “Did you radicalize Farook?” To which one responded “there’s nothing radical here.” I’ll try to find a link to that video. It was one of the main US networks, I believe.

    Here’s a dynamic with the mostly liberal leaning media:

    They only press for definitive answers when there’s a perceived threat. To the MSM, Obama has never been a perceived threat, while some Republican leaders have; straight down ideological lines.

    After the events of 911 quieted, the MSM gradually began to sympathise with Muslims, because they no longer were a perceived threat.

    In this video we have a mosque that Sayed Farook attended daily on his lunch break, up until a few weeks before 12/2. Given that, and the treatment of female reporters, who didn’t follow the suggested sex-segregation rule, mind you, they are now a pervieved threat, and thus, the tougher questions. That’s my take.

  78. 78
    kairosfocus says:

    Brent,

    Dhimmitude by Bat Yeor — Daughter of the Nile, an Egyptian born Jewish academic who speaks from direct knowledge and research. This is just an opening sampler:

    ______________

    >>Dhimmitude in History

    Dhimmitude can only be understood in the context of jihad, because it originates from this ideology. Infidels who submit without fighting to the Islamic armies, are granted a pledge of security. They are protected from the jihad laws against infidels which command killing, slavery, ransom or deportation for the enemies. Peace and security for non-Muslims are recognised only after their submission. Protection status is provided through the Islamization of conquered lands.

    Rules of dhimmitude

    The vanquished non-Muslims peoples are granted security for their life and possessions, as well as a relative self-autonomous administration and limited religious rights according to the modalities of the conquest. These rights are subject to two conditions: the payment of a poll tax (the jizya) and submission to the provisions of Islamic law.

    The concept of toleration is linked to a number of discriminatory obligations in the economic, religious and social fields, imposed by the shari’a on the dhimmis. The transgression by the dhimmis of some of these obligations, abolished their protection, and threaten them with death or slavery. Dhimmis suffered many legal disabilities intended to reduce them to a condition of humiliation, segregation and discrimination. These rules, established from the eight to nine centuries by the founders of the four schools of Islamic law, set the pattern of the Muslim’s community’s social behavior toward dhimmis.

    Jews and Christians are referred to as the People of the Book, they share the same legal status, while other religious group – like the Zoroastrians for instance – were more despised and treated harsher.

    Dhimmitude covers more than a millennium of Christian and Jewish history, as well as of other groups. It is a comprehensive civilization encompassing customs, legislation, social behavior. Numerous laws were enacted over the centuries by the Muslim authorities, to implement its principles. It was abolished during the 19th -20th centuries under European pressure and colonization of Arab countries.

    Today the resurgence of traditional Islam revitalizes the spirit of jihad against the dar al-harb and of dhimmitude for the non-Muslim minorities.

    Islam and the Jews: The Status of Jews and Christians in Muslim Lands, 1772 CE. From Jewish History Sourcebook. The rules of dhimmitude obligatory under Islamic law, for Jews and Christians (dhimmis) living in Islamized lands, as explained by an Egyptian judge in 1772.

    The Jizyah Tax: Equality And Dignity Under Islamic Law?. Article by Walter Short. An examination of Islamic law regarding Jews and Christians based primarily on the Qur’an and the Sunnah. Since the Muslims in the West and the Muslim world uphold the principle of an Islamic State with Shari’ah Law as the ideal society, the author examines the place of non-Muslims, if the Caliphate was ever restored and applied in the West.

    Islam and Dhimmis: Rejoinder. Article (1987) by Bat Ye’or in response to an article (1986) by Prof. Mark Cohen (Princeton University) in The Jerusalem Quarterly

    Aspects of the Arab-Israeli Conflict. Article (1979) by Bat Ye’or, Wiener Library Bulletin (Institute of Contemporary History, London)

    Oriental Jewry and the Dhimmi image in contemporary Arab nationalism (1979). Lecture by Bat Ye’or at Jews College, London (Sept. 5, 1978) organised by The Jews in Arab Lands Committee. Chairman of the seminar: The Rt. Hon. Sir Harold Wilson

    Dhimmi Peoples: Oppressed Nations (1978). Four articles by Bat Ye’or written for journals in Bruxelles before President Anwar Sadat’s Nov. 1977 visit to Jerusalem. Trans. from French (1977). Published by Editions de l’Avenir (Geneva) for the Centre d’Information et de Documentation sur le Moyen-Orient (Geneva)

    Zionism in Islamic Lands: The Case of Egypt. Article (1977) by Bat Ye’or, Wiener Library Bulletin (Institute of Contemporary History, London)

    Protected Peoples under Islam (1976). Article by David G. Littman and Bat Ye’or, Centre d’Information et de Documentation sur le Moyen-Orient (Geneva). Quotations from a number of sources, and documents on North African Jewry in the 19th century

    Islam and Dhimmitude. Where Civilizations Collide (Introduction), by Bat Ye’or. From the book published by Fairleigh Dickinson University Press/Associated University Presses (2002)

    Jews under Muslim Rule in the late Nineteenth Century. A Wiener library Bulletin article (1975) by David G. Littman, providing some original source documents from the archives of the Alliance Israélite Universelle (Paris), translated from the French. They illustrate the harsh reality of dhimmitude under Muslim rule for the Jews in Tunisia, Libya and Morocco from 1864-1911.

    Jews under Muslim Rule–II: Morocco 1903-1912. A Wiener Library Bulletin article (1976) by David G. Littman, with AIU source documents before French colonization. They vividly illustrate the humiliation, misery and exposure to physical violence which was still the lot of the Moroccan Jewish dhimmis 100 years ago. (Dedicated to Professor H.Z. Hirschberg, d. 1976).

    Jews under Muslim Rule: The Case of Persia. A Wiener Library Bulletin article (1979) by David G. Littman providing an overview of the Persian Jewish condition from antiquity. AIU source documents from 1873-1910 show how the individual and communal degradation and oppression of the dhimmi Jews were more pronounced where the shi’a doctrine ruled in Persia, before the Pahlavis (1925-1979), and also in the Yemen.

    Mission to Morocco (1863-1864). Chapter 3 (pp. 171-229) by David G. Littman, in The Century of Moses Montefiore (ed. by Sonia and V.D. Lipman, published for the Littman Library of Jewish Civilzation in Association with the Jewish Historical Society of England by Oxford University Press, 1985). A detailed description of Sir Moses Montefiore’s visit to Morocco, illustrating the daily condition of dhimmitude in Morocco. It provides an overview of the situation of Moroccan Jewry in previous centuries, and later, down to the French occupation in 1912.

    Myths and Politics: Origin of the Myth of a Tolerant Pluralistic Islamic Society. Lecture by Bat Ye’or (August 31, 1995) at a Symposium on the Balkan War (Chicago, Illinois) under the auspices of the Lord Byron Foundation For Balkan Studies and The International Strategic Studies Association.

    The Persecution of Christians Under Islam: An Historic Overview, by Virginia Tschanz, The Lion, July 2000, P4

    The Decline of Eastern Christian Communities in the Modern Middle East, by Bat Ye’or. Lecture of November 11, 1996 at The Hebrew University of Jerusalem, The Middle Eastern Unit and The Faculty of Humanities. Chair: Dr. David Satran (Department of Comparative Religion)>>

    ________________

    KF

  79. 79
    kairosfocus says:

    Brent:

    Timeline to the 1st Crusade:

    http://www.answering-islam.org.....meline.htm

    ________________

    >> . . . The Timeline

    630 Two years before Muhammad’s death of a fever, he launches the Tabuk Crusades, in which he led 30,000 jihadists against the Byzantine Christians. He had heard a report that a huge army had amassed to attack Arabia, but the report turned out to be a false rumor. The Byzantine army never materialized. He turned around and went home, but not before extracting “agreements” from northern tribes. They could enjoy the “privilege” of living under Islamic “protection” (read: not be attacked by Islam), if they paid a tax.

    This tax sets the stage for Muhammad’s and the later Caliphs’ policies. If the attacked city or region did not want to convert to Islam, then they paid a jizya tax. If they converted, then they paid a zakat tax. Either way, money flowed back to the Islamic treasury in Arabia or to the local Muslim governor.

    632-634 Under the Caliphate of Abu Bakr the Muslim Crusaders reconquer and sometimes conquer for the first time the polytheists of Arabia. These Arab polytheists had to convert to Islam or die. They did not have the choice of remaining in their faith and paying a tax. Islam does not allow for religious freedom.

    633 The Muslim Crusaders, led by Khalid al-Walid, a superior but bloodthirsty military commander, whom Muhammad nicknamed the Sword of Allah for his ferocity in battle (Tabari, 8:158 / 1616-17), conquer the city of Ullays along the Euphrates River (in today’s Iraq). Khalid captures and beheads so many that a nearby canal, into which the blood flowed, was called Blood Canal (Tabari 11:24 / 2034-35).

    634 At the Battle of Yarmuk in Syria the Muslim Crusaders defeat the Byzantines. Today Osama bin Laden draws inspiration from the defeat, and especially from an anecdote about Khalid al-Walid. In Khalid’s day an unnamed Muslim remarks: “The Romans are so numerous and the Muslims so few.” To this Khalid retorts: “How few are the Romans, and how many the Muslims! Armies become numerous only with victory and few only with defeat, not by the number of men. By God, I would love it . . . if the enemy were twice as many” (Tabari, 11:94 / 2095). Osama bin Laden quotes Khalid and says that his fighters love death more than we in the West love life. This philosophy of death probably comes from a verse like Sura 2:96. Muhammad assesses the Jews: “[Prophet], you are sure to find them [the Jews] clinging to life more eagerly than any other people, even polytheists” (MAS Abdel Haleem, The Qur’an, Oxford UP, 2004; first insertion in brackets is Haleem’s; the second mine).

    634-644 The Caliphate of Umar ibn al-Khattab, who is regarded as particularly brutal.

    635 Muslim Crusaders besiege and conquer of Damascus.

    636 Muslim Crusaders defeat Byzantines decisively at Battle of Yarmuk.

    637 Muslim Crusaders conquer Iraq at the Battle of al-Qadisiyyah (some date it in 635 or 636).

    638 Muslim Crusaders conquer and annex Jerusalem, taking it from the Byzantines.

    638-650 Muslim Crusaders conquer Iran, except along Caspian Sea.

    639-642 Muslim Crusaders conquer Egypt.

    641 Muslim Crusaders control Syria and Palestine.

    643-707 Muslim Crusaders conquer North Africa.

    644 Caliph Umar is assassinated by a Persian prisoner of war; Uthman ibn Affan is elected third Caliph, who is regarded by many Muslims as gentler than Umar.

    644-650 Muslim Crusaders conquer Cyprus, Tripoli in North Africa, and establish Islamic rule in Iran, Afghanistan, and Sind.

    656 Caliph Uthman is assassinated by disgruntled Muslim soldiers; Ali ibn Abi Talib, son-in-law and cousin to Muhammad, who married the prophet’s daughter Fatima through his first wife Khadija, is set up as Caliph.

    656 Battle of the Camel, in which Aisha, Muhammad’s wife, leads a rebellion against Ali for not avenging Uthman’s assassination. Ali’s partisans win.

    657 Battle of Siffin between Ali and Muslim governor of Jerusalem, arbitration goes against Ali

    661 Murder of Ali by an extremist; Ali’s supporters acclaim his son Hasan as next Caliph, but he comes to an agreement with Muawiyyah I and retires to Medina.

    661-680 the Caliphate of Muawiyyah I. He founds Umayyid dynasty and moves capital from Medina to Damascus

    673-678 Arabs besiege Constantinople, capital of Byzantine Empire

    680 Massacre of Hussein (Muhammad’s grandson), his family, and his supporters in Karbala, Iraq.

    691 Dome of the Rock is completed in Jerusalem, only six decades after Muhammad’s death.

    705 Abd al-Malik restores Umayyad rule.

    710-713 Muslim Crusaders conquer the lower Indus Valley.

    711-713 Muslim Crusaders conquer Spain and impose the kingdom of Andalus. This article recounts how Muslims today still grieve over their expulsion 700 years later. They seem to believe that the land belonged to them in the first place.

    719 Cordova, Spain, becomes seat of Arab governorship.

    732 The Muslim Crusaders are stopped at the Battle of Poitiers; that is, Franks (France) halt Arab advance.

    749 The Abbasids conquer Kufah and overthrow Umayyids.

    756 Foundation of Umayyid emirate in Cordova, Spain, setting up an independent kingdom from Abbasids.

    762 Foundation of Baghdad

    785 Foundation of the Great Mosque of Cordova

    789 Rise of Idrisid emirs (Muslim Crusaders) in Morocco; foundation of Fez; Christoforos, a Muslim who converted to Christianity, is executed.

    800 Autonomous Aghlabid dynasty (Muslim Crusaders) in Tunisia.

    807 Caliph Harun al-Rashid orders the destruction of non-Muslim prayer houses and of the Church of Mary Magdalene in Jerusalem.

    809 Aghlabids (Muslim Crusaders) conquer Sardinia, Italy.

    813 Christians in Palestine are attacked; many flee the country.

    831 Muslim Crusaders capture of Palermo, Italy; raids in Southern Italy.

    850 Caliph al-Matawakkil orders the destruction of non-Muslim houses of prayer.

    855 Revolt of the Christians of Hims (Syria)

    837-901 Aghlabids (Muslim Crusaders) conquer Sicily, raid Corsica, Italy, France.

    869-883 Revolt of black slaves in Iraq

    909 Rise of the Fatimid Caliphate in Tunisia; these Muslim Crusaders occupy Sicily, Sardinia.

    928-969 Byzantine military revival, they retake old territories, such as Cyprus (964) and Tarsus (969).

    937 The Ikhshid, a particularly harsh Muslim ruler, writes to Emperor Romanus, boasting of his control over the holy places.

    937 The Church of the Resurrection (known as Church of Holy Sepulcher in Latin West) is burned down by Muslims; more churches in Jerusalem are attacked .

    960 Conversion of Qarakhanid Turks to Islam

    966 Anti-Christian riots in Jerusalem

    969 Fatimids (Muslim Crusaders) conquer Egypt and found Cairo.

    c. 970 Seljuks enter conquered Islamic territories from the East.

    973 Israel and southern Syria are again conquered by the Fatimids.

    1003 First persecutions by al-Hakim; the Church of St. Mark in Fustat, Egypt, is destroyed.

    1009 Destruction of the Church of the Resurrection by al-Hakim (see 937)

    1012 Beginning of al-Hakim’s oppressive decrees against Jews and Christians

    1015 Earthquake in Palestine; the dome of the Dome of the Rock collapses.

    1031 Collapse of Umayyid Caliphate and establishment of 15 minor independent dynasties throughout Muslim Andalus

    1048 Reconstruction of the Church of the Resurrection completed

    1050 Creation of Almoravid (Muslim Crusaders) movement in Mauretania; Almoravids (also known as Murabitun) are coalition of western Saharan Berbers; followers of Islam, focusing on the Quran, the hadith, and Maliki law.

    1055 Seljuk Prince Tughrul enters Baghdad, consolidation of the Seljuk Sultanate.

    1055 Confiscation of property of Church of the Resurrection

    1071 Battle of Manzikert, Seljuk Turks (Muslim Crusaders) defeat Byzantines and occupy much of Anatolia.

    1071 Turks (Muslim Crusaders) invade Palestine.

    1073 Conquest of Jerusalem by Turks (Muslim Crusaders)

    1075 Seljuks (Muslim Crusaders) capture Nicea (Iznik) and make it their capital in Anatolia.

    1076 Almoravids (Muslim Crusaders) (see 1050) conquer western Ghana.

    1085 Toledo is taken back by Christian armies.

    1086 Almoravids (Muslim Crusaders) (see 1050) send help to Andalus, Battle of Zallaca.

    1090-1091 Almoravids (Muslim Crusaders) occupy all of Andalus except Saragossa and Balearic Islands.

    1094 Byzantine Emperor Alexius Comnenus I asks western Christendom for help against Seljuk invasions of his territory; Seljuks are Muslim Turkish family of eastern origins; see 970.

    1095 Pope Urban II preaches first Crusade; they capture Jerusalem in 1099 >>
    ________________

    6 + 4 = 10.

    A tad of a different picture from France and Spain to the gates of Constantinople to the Indus valley to Ghana!

    KF

  80. 80

    KF,

    I remember viewing a video recently with a speaker, a historian, I believe, explaining the Muslim conquests, and before a group, in what looked to be a private home. He used Powerpoint to display maps and charts.

    Was it you who linked that video? If so, could you link it again? I think it’s very instructive. If it wasn’t you, I’ll try to find it.

  81. 81
    kairosfocus says:

    Brent:

    Ibrahim adds:

    http://www.raymondibrahim.com/.....and-islam/

    __________________

    >>A mere decade after the birth of Islam in the 7th century, the jihad burst out of Arabia. Leaving aside all the thousands of miles of ancient lands and civilizations that were permanently conquered—including Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Iran, and parts of India and China—much of Europe was also, at one time or another, conquered by the sword of Islam.

    Among other nations and territories that were attacked and/or came under Muslim domination are (to give them their modern names in no particular order): Portugal, Spain, France, Italy, Sicily, Switzerland, Austria, Hungary, Greece, Russia, Poland, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Lithuania, Romania, Albania, Serbia, Armenia, Georgia, Crete, Cyprus, Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Macedonia, Belarus, Malta, Sardinia, Moldova, Slovakia, and Montenegro.

    In 846 Rome was sacked and the Vatican defiled by Muslim Arab raiders; some 600 years later, in 1453, Christendom’s other great basilica, Holy Wisdom (or Hagia Sophia) was conquered by Muslim Turks, permanently. (Till this day, Turkish Muslims celebrate the sack of Constantinople, which saw much rapine and slaughter.)

    The few European regions that escaped direct Islamic occupation due to their northwest remoteness include Great Britain, Scandinavia, and Germany. That, of course, does not mean that they were not attacked by Islam. Indeed, in the furthest northwest of Europe, in Iceland, Christians used to pray that God save them from the “terror of the Turk.” This was not mere paranoia; as late as 1627, Muslim corsairs raided the northern Christian island seizing four hundred captives and selling them in the slave markets of Algiers.

    Nor did America escape. A few years after the formation of the United States, in 1800, American trading ships in the Mediterranean were plundered and their sailors enslaved by Muslim corsairs. The ambassador of Tripoli explained to Thomas Jefferson that it was a Muslim’s “right and duty to make war upon them [non-Muslims] wherever they could be found, and to enslave as many as they could take as prisoners.”

    In short, for roughly one millennium—punctuated by a Crusader-rebuttal that the modern West is obsessed with demonizing—Islam daily posed an existential threat to Christian Europe and by extension Western civilization.

    And therein lies the rub: Today, whether as taught in high school or graduate school, whether as portrayed by Hollywood or the news media, the predominant historic narrative is that Muslims are the historic “victims” of “intolerant” Western Christians. (Watch my response to a Fox News host wondering why Christians have always persecuted Muslims.)

    So here we are, paying the price of being an ahistorical society . . . >>

    ___________________

    In short, Jihad wars and raids are business as usual.

    KF

  82. 82
    kairosfocus says:

    CY:

    Bill Warner (yup, that’s his name) on the 1400 year war:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y

    KF

  83. 83

    Brent

    “Will the Feds quash the idea?”

    Under current gun laws, they can’t.

    I saw an opinion piece the other day, based on alleged inside sources with the current administration, that Ptesident Obama does not hope to acheive any significant gun legislation by the time he leaves office.

    Let us join with him in that absence of hope.

  84. 84

    KF,

    That’s the one.

    Thanks.

  85. 85

    Here’s the other video I was looking for. NBC (no surprise there).

    https://youtu.be/6byG3kpajIo

    Ok, so she asked a tough question: “Did your mosque radicalize Farook?,” but she immediately followed up their denial; “there’s nothing radical here,” with “evidence” that they were “victims of muslim hatred,” based on a muffled answering machine recording.

    So while some in the MSM are beginning to ask tough questions, they are, no less, providing an escape from public condemnation and to exonerationr through the spin.

  86. 86
    zeroseven says:

    what is wrong with your country, that you even have to consider arming yourselves against all your other compatriots who are also armed against you? The very idea that one would need to do that to live safely in one’s own country is incredible. Surely it implies some serous disconnect in your culture somewhere. Or maybe you see nothing wrong with the idea of citizens having to go around armed in the modern day. weird.

  87. 87
    kairosfocus says:

    Looks like we have a sheepdog with teeth case in point: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.c.....an/380705/

  88. 88
    kairosfocus says:

    07: The evidence of Paris, Mali, Kenya, and now London (stabbing attack) shows that razzias are real. KF

  89. 89

    zeroseven

    What country are you in?

  90. 90
  91. 91
    kairosfocus says:

    Notice, current list, from Wiki:

    >> EgyptRussia October 31, 2015 – Bomb on board a Russian jet brings it down in Sinai, bound for St Petersburg, killing 224 people.[167]
    Lebanon November 12, 2015 – Twin suicide bombings kill 42 people in the capital city of Beirut.[168]
    France November 13, 2015 – A series of terrorist attacks in Paris kill 137, and wound 368. They involved a series of coordinated attacks which consisted of mass shootings and suicide bombings. This incident was the most fatal event on French soil since World War II.[169]
    Iraq November 13, 2015 – A Suicide bomber kills at least 21 at a Shia funeral.[170]
    PhilippinesMalaysia November 17, 2015 – A Malaysian national is beheaded by Abu Sayyaf in the southern Philippines.[171]
    Nigeria November 17, 2015 – A suicide attack at a market in Yola killed more than 30 people and hospitalised more than 80. The attack is thought to be the work of Boko Haram.[172]
    France November 18, 2015 – A Jewish history teacher was stabbed in the arm and leg by three Islamists in Marseille.[173]
    Bosnia and Herzegovina November 18, 2015 – A lone wolf Islamist killed two soldiers and injured civilians in Sarajevo. 3 dead 5 wounded.[174]
    Nigeria November 18, 2015 – Two explosions rock a phone market in Kano killing at least 15 people and injuring more than 100. Boko Haram is suspected to be behind it.[175]
    Mali November 20, 2015 – Bamako hotel attack. Gunmen yelling “Allahu Akbar” storm a hotel in Bamako, Mali. At least 19 killed, and more than 160 were taken hostage.
    Iraq November 20, 2015 – A Suicide bomber detonates inside a Shiite mosque killing 10 people, other bombings in the area killed another 5 people.[176]
    Cameroon November 21, 2015 – Suicide bombers affiliated with Boko Haram kill at least 10 in northern Cameroon.[177]
    Nigeria November 22, 2015 – 8 people among women and children demise when a female suicide bomber is reduced to pulp.[178]
    Tunisia November 24, 2015 – At least 12 people were killed in a bus bombing in Tunis, the capital of Tunisia. ISIS claimed responsibility for this attack that targeted a bus transporting members of the Presidential Guard. [179]
    Egypt November 24, 2015 – In the November 2015 Sinai attack which occurred a day after the second round of parliamentary elections closed, militants attack a hotel housing election judges in the provincial capital of al-Arish in Egypt’s North Sinai. 7 dead, 10+ wounded[180]
    Niger November 25, 2015 – Boko Haram invades a village and shoots indiscriminately residents and also fire rockets, killing 18.[181]
    Nigeria November 27, 2015 – 21 killed in Boko Haram suicide attack on a Shia procession in Nigeria[182]
    Egypt November 28, 2015 – Islamist gunmen killed four security personnel in an attack at a police checkpoint in Saqqara. 4 dead[183]
    Mali November 28, 2015 – Millitants fired rockets on a MINUSMA peacekeeping forces base in northern Mali. Ansar Dine claimed responsibility. 3 dead, 20 wounded.[184]
    United States December 2, 2015 – In the 2015 San Bernardino shooting, two people, one of whom posted on Facebook an “oath of allegiance” to the leader of ISIL, shot and killed 14 people and injured 21 others in a killing spree that the FBI was investigating as “act of terrorism”.[185][186]
    Chad December 5, 2015 – Four female suicide bombers from the militant Islamist group Boko Haram attacked the Chadian island of Koulfoua on Lake Chad, killing at least 15 people and injuring 130.[187]
    Yemen December 6, 2015 – The governor of the southern port city of Aden in Yemen, Jaafar Mohammed Saad, was killed in a car bomb attack. The assassination was claimed by ISIS.[188]>>

  92. 92

    This website has a running list (last 30 days) of worldwide Islamic terror attacks and their impact:

    http://www.thereligionofpeace......ml#Attacks

    Over the last 30 days worldwide:

    1,409 deaths
    1,815 injuries.

    Staggering numbers!

    This includes both the Paris and San Bernardino attacks.

    If those numbers don’t wake us up to what’s happening, I don’t know what will. World War IV? I guess!

  93. 93
  94. 94
    kairosfocus says:

    No prizes for guessing why that running total is NOT in our major news.

  95. 95
    Mapou says:

    CY,

    A war is coming indeed. A furious and violent war of hate, jealousy and revenge, a war of men and machines. After the dust settles, the muslim nations will have been defeated and Mecca destroyed. Just saying.

  96. 96
    zeroseven says:

    CY, I am in New Zealand

  97. 97
    kairosfocus says:

    Mapou, the war is already in progress these past 1400 years, and is racking up 1,400 dead and 1,800 wounded per MONTH currently, just as mostly patently non combatant victims of terrorist murders. Judging by the list of attacks, there has been a steady rising trend since the late 90’s, with a major surge from Boko Haram and from ISIS. And, I suspect the median victim is a fellow Muslim. KF

  98. 98
    zeroseven says:

    KF, I just don’t think that everyone getting guns is the answer to a few crazy people running around with them. The odds of someone in Paris or London being caught up in a terrorist attack is still infinitesimal. It just that terrorism always gets the headlines. It’s like people are scared of shark attacks, but in Australia more people die choking on peanut butter than getting attached by sharks.

  99. 99

    Same 30 day running list:

    http://www.thereligionofpeace......ml#Attacks

    Country breakdown and number of attacks:

    Yemen 9
    Chad 2
    Iraq 54
    Nigeria 7
    CAR 2
    Somalia 2
    Cameroon 5
    Syria 9
    USA 1
    Pakistan 19
    DRC 1
    Afghanistan 9
    Egypt 4
    Mali 3
    Niger 2
    Azarbaijan 1
    Bangladesh 2
    India 2
    Tunisia 2
    Libya 2
    Israel 6
    Saudi Arabia 1
    Bosnia 1
    Philippines 1
    Turkey 1
    Lebanon 1
    Thailand 1
    Italy 1
    Jordan 2

    158 attacks worldwide in 30 days in 31 countries. That’s quite an impact

    8 majority non-Muslim countries, but I will add the London knifing attack not on the list = 9.

  100. 100
    kairosfocus says:

    07: Did I say what you said? Did I not talk to in effect a civilian, trained, regulated marshal corps? Did not CY bring in the idea that firms could back it for workplace security? (IIRC, in Korea, many firms are (or used to be) also in effect militia units; given the history of 1950.) I am talking target hardening and training and responsibility requirements are no joke. What I talked to is the adaptation of the Swiss system where there is a universal duty to contribute to defence, complete with training, arming, regulation and command structure. That stood Switzerland in good stead for over 100 years and deterred German invasions twice. KF

  101. 101
    zeroseven says:

    Seriously CY, you take one idiot with a knife yelling slogans as a “terrorist attack”? Ridiculous

  102. 102
    zeroseven says:

    I was speaking more generally KF based on the sentiment I see here.

    But what it comes down to is you guys want there to be some kind of war. A showdown. The prospect makes you feel alive. And that you will be carrying out God’s will or whatever. Funny thing is, that’s exactly what ISIS wants also.

  103. 103

    zeroseven,

    Ok, so let’s break it down. The US has had 8 separate Islamist terror attacks in 15 years, killing 3,000 people. 4 of those attacks involved passenger airplanes, and the rest involved guns.

    This doesn’t take into account the hundreds of planned/foiled attacks, where many more would have died.

    What is wrong with our country? We defend other countries and sometimes fight their wars for them. That’s what’s “wrong.” And for that we are attacked as an aggressor. It’s been that way for a long time.

    The very least we could honor is our citizens’ right to defend themselves against coworkers coming here from Islamic countries (legally, mind you) specifically to kill them; against someone who plans to fly planes into buildings, against persons who strap bombs to their torsos and plan to get on planes, against crazy people with guns who want to shoot school children, high school students, or movie goers.

    I don’t suppose in beautiful and peaceful New Zealand you have such concerns. Consider yourself blessed.

  104. 104

    “Seriously CY, you take one idiot with a knife yelling slogans as a “terrorist attack”? Ridiculous”

    It’s not me calling it a terrorist attack:

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/06/.....stabbings/

  105. 105
    kairosfocus says:

    07: Kindly take time to look at the historical and current summaries above. Just on terrorist attacks, WW IV is currently running at 1400 dead per month. Then, scroll up and read the captured strategy documents on the 100 year global subjugation plan and the settlement jihad strategy, comparing with what is going on including Iran’s nuke deal and ballistic missile efforts. Then, please remember that NZ gave the commonwealth its bravest soldiers in WW II, now it is our whole civilisation on the line. Go ask your Maori, including NZ’s most recent VC recipient. KF

    PS: The UK attack is part of a wave called for by Imams in Israel. Those things spread, and I assure you “knife, meat-cleaver [Woolwich] and cutlass control” is impossible.

    PPS: This is for Syria is a statement about the RAF’s engagement in helping to topple the ISIS through supporting the air fight in Syria.

    PPPS: For those who do not know, Allah u Akhbar is not only a prayer but the Islamic war cry. The black flag is a reference to the hadith on the army from the direction of Khorasan that is to be invincible, conquer the ME and serve as Mahdi’s platform for global subjugation, and BTW a massacre of Jews per the gharqad tree hadith is part of that too, this one is written into the Hamas covenant.

  106. 106

    07

    You seem to be confusing “war” with “combat operation.”

    As KF already pointed out, the war’s been ongoing for 1400 years. It is the nature of Islam to be aggressive, and the enemies of Islam to be defensive. It’s been that way from the very beginning.

    Let me illustrate this for you:

    @ 82 KF provided a link to a video presentation by Bill Warner, who carefully mapped out known historical attacks by Islamic Jihad starting with Mohammed in the 600s.

    What it shows is that for hundreds of years Islamic Jihad had invaded, butchered, pillared, ransacked, raped, and enslaved other countries in one of the widest territorial dominations in history. Christian Europe responded with the crusades, which were defensive in nature, lasted for 300 years, and ended over 800 years ago. Islamic Jihad is offensive in nature and has been ongoing for 1400 years.

    Warner also makes the point (in another video) that the Islamic religion was not all that successful. Mohammed preached his new religion for decades and only garnered a handful of converts. It wasn’t until he turned Islam into a political ideology; which we see today. That Islam began to flourish by the edge of the sword as illustrated in the video.

    Also, in that other video, an audience member starts to ask a question about “radical Islam” and Warner cuts him off,

    Paraphrase: “If I drive the freeway at 70mph, that’s the speed limit. It isn’t radical to drive the speed limit. In the same way, Muslims who follow the teachings in the three holy books of Islam, are not being radical. iSIS isn’t radical; they’re following the teachings of Mohammed.”

    So it’s Islam that declared war on the world 1400 years ago, and continues to this day. What the US has been involved in since 911 is a series of combat operations large (Afghanistan and Iraq, Syria and Libya) and small (San Bernardino), which have all been defensive in response to Islamist aggression. The pattern is clear.

    We aren’t “looking for a war;” the war started long ago. We’re looking for strategies by which to win the war and defeat the Islamic political ideology that has caused and continues to cause such widespread misery and death.

    But it’s not just the US that’s involved. France, Canada, Britain, now Russia and a whole slew of other nations are involved, whether they like it or not.

    I’ll try to find that other video. It’s as instructive as the one above.

  107. 107
  108. 108
    Seversky says:

    You do realize that panicking about World War IV and a co-ordinated worldwide Islamic jihad is giving them exactly what they want? They know they haven’t a hope in hell of defeating the West militarily. As appalling and tragic as these attacks are at an individual level, they are pinpricks at best in military terms. The citizens of London, Liverpool and Coventry routinely coped with much larger casualty lists night after night during the Blitz in WWII. They took it and they didn’t give up.

    The terrorists can only win if you let them. They are going to hit us and hurt us again. We’d better make up our minds to that. The police and intelligence services claim to have foiled a large number of attacks and I’m inclined to believe them. But they can’t stop them all. A few will always get through.

    What we need to do is hit them back a lot harder than we are now. That means putting boots on the ground. Air power has never won a war on its own and can’t win this one. Troops have to go in on the ground and take that territory back from ISIS, street by street, house by house, up close and personal. Dismantle the whole disgusting apparatus and scatter it. Anything less is wishful thinking and that’s not how you win wars.

  109. 109

    Mapou,

    I don’t think it’s a matter of wiping out the Islamic countries and destroying Mecca. God will take care of whatever judgment and destruction needs to be meted out at the end of the age. I see our job as to defend ourselves and the enemies of Islam that are under attack. Those 9 non-muslim countries would make a good start, but there’s a whole lot more who are vulnerable.

    It would be great to defeat the Islamic Jihad world-domination ideology, and we certainly should seek to do so; but I don’t think it will be defeated in our lifetimes. I think we could certainly and swiftly defeat ISIS, and maybe the British, French and Russians will, with a little help from Israel, but it’s not likely to involve their old trusted ally, the US of A any time soon.

    Maybe after Ted Cruz is inaugurated (or runners up Carly Fiorina or Ben Carson) 😉

  110. 110
    kairosfocus says:

    Seversky, I suggest you actually read the captured documents, the history and current trends. Note the sharp acceleration and current rate 3,000+ casualties per month, around the world. Nearly half dead. Then take a serious look at the Iran nuke programme and linked diplomatic devil’s bargains that have been struck in context of the track record of the Mullahs, starting with their own people. Look up what is done to virgin girls there the night before they are hanged, some victims being as young as 12. Understand why it reduces them to catatonia. Wake up. KF

  111. 111

    Seversky,

    The first task of any war is to “know thine enemy.”

    You can’t know that the enemy is Islamic Jihad world-domination ideology without first naming it as such; which the current US administration has refused to do. In fact, the current administration regularly employs the enemy to help strategize on how to defeat the enemy, and anyone who tries to call a spade a spade is excluded from the discussion altogether, by order of the Commander in Cheif. Anyone who says anything against Islamic Jihad is labeled an “Islamophobe,” and the discussion is over.

    But what you see goung on here isn’t “panic,” but discussion about strategy and enemy assessment. Pretty calm, actually.

    I agree that we need boots on the ground to defeat ISIS. It’s a no brainer.

  112. 112
    kairosfocus says:

    CY, that was Richard Lionheart’s conclusion too. The best place to defend Australia is New Guinea, and the place to settle the war is Japan, getting there by converging stages. KF

  113. 113
    Mapou says:

    CY @109,

    It’s just my interpretation of some of the prophecies of Daniel regarding the end days. All the Muslim lands will be invaded, defeated and fully occupied. One of the few countries that seems to escape the onslaught is Jordan. But I could be wrong.

  114. 114

    Seversky,

    Pin prick? Yes, a very effective one. Here’s what the pin prick accomplished:

    The ability to radicalize a US citizen to carry out an attack, with limited (if any) actual contact from commanders outside the field.

    The ability (in the case of the wife) to immigrate to the US, become a legal alien with a green card, and still carry out the attack.

    The ability to remain off the radar of law enforcement for years, right up until the day after the attack.

    The ability to carry out what many other Jihadists have attempted to do since 911, only to face jail time with the attack left unaccomplished. San Bernardino was the largest terrorist attack on US soil since 911. It’s the worst mass shooting in the US since Sandy Hook.

    The ability to communicate through 3rd parties and supposed low profile Jihadists (monitored by law enforcement, but not considered of high priority or importance).

    The ability to conduct an attack largely through inspiration and not ordered by direct action of commanders outside the field.

    Low cost operation.

    Effective fear factor.

    Potential for surviving an initial attack and creating more carnage later.

    Maintain sympathizer presence in the field for later attacks.

    And of course a lot of this was made possible by our culture (political correctness-induced fear of racial profiling, and thus, not reporting suspicious activity),

    As well as by our leaders (assuring citizens a low risk of terror attack days before, unwillingness to name the enemy, or to gather adequate, non-comprimised information about the enemy from a neutral source.)

    As well as many other factors (I’m sure KF coyld come up with a few more.)

    So the message the enemy gains from this is “we can get away with much more at a much larger scale and more often.” And “we have instilled enough fear to induce panic-driven compliance once the real (immigration and Islamic population explosion) invasion occurs.” We’ve stifled opposition to refugee relocation, even though there’s other more practical alternatives. Such an invasion scenario is already happening ,in Europe big time. Ttey learned also that when they immigrate they can assimilate into our culture, then re-radicalize as time draws near to attack, or they can simply hide behind the burka. IOW, there are lifestyle options and rewards of “living the American dream,” for a while at least.

    And most importantly, all the intelligence needed to make all these assessments is available online for free.

    Pin pricks can lead to other 911s or worse, as KF illustrated with the Iran nuke factor.

  115. 115

    Mapou,

    Yeah, I haven’t paid much attention to end-times prophecy for years. i guess I should pay closer attention, because we could be approaching those “perilous times,” actually more than likely.

  116. 116
    Brent says:

    To KF and CY,

    Thanks to you both for so much information and informative links. This stuff NEEDS to be known. I am in a place of small influence and often am able to instruct others about things that are rarely if ever heard. This information will be valuable for me and others.

    I’d like to ask (and I’ve not thoroughly scoured all links provided yet), just how can I back up empirically and objectively this history to the point that unwillingness to accept it is simply irrationality defined? Perhaps the answer to that is already to be found in the links provided, but not only this subject, but history in general: How do I get a solid lesson in history without being taken in by revisionist history which seems the overwhelming rule? I’ve looked around and just am not sure.

  117. 117
    Brent says:

    Oh!

    I’ve now heard several times a rhetorical device, “Well doing that is exactly what the terrorists want,” as an excuse for not following some plan to defeat Islam.

    I’m reminded of an article by, I think I remember correctly, James Dobson that I read while waiting for my wife during her check-up during pregnancy. That puts it at either 16 or 19 years ago (don’t remember which kid ;).

    He said that, if your 6 year old came and crossed your T, looking for a battle, you’d be wise not to disappoint him.

    I think we need to give the Islamists EXACTLY what they think they want.

  118. 118

    Brent,

    As you know, the investigation of what happened here in San Bernardino is ongoing and quite fluid still at this point. Any links to news reports should be taken with that in mind. Details can change, and have changed.

    I think KF could better address the history links.

    That site that has the 30 day running list of Islamic attacks I got from Bill Warner ewho mentioned it ij one of his videos. I’m not certain how accurate it is, but by a quick glance I could see recorded events that I’m familiar with, and the list specifies the nature of the attacks, such that they could be independently varified if you chose to go that far.

    BTW, Warners maps in the first video are based on a database of actual recorded historical events. I’m sure you could probably get that database directly from his organization.

    I posted some information about San Bernardino and Inland Regional Center where the attacks took place. I have first hand knowledge of the nature of IRC’s work and facilities through a previous job where I had contact with their workers on a daily basis. I also live in San Bernrdino.

  119. 119

    Brent

    “I think we need to give the Islamists EXACTLY what they think they want.”

    Yup. A few billion non-earthly virgins.

  120. 120
    kairosfocus says:

    Brent,

    I am afraid, our civilisation is so sick that far too many people will not accept facts that do not fit their preferences regardless of how well documented. Instead they have been programmed to turn and attack us.

    My summary is based on a fair bit of reading and monitoring over many years, and some sources are obvious.

    I gave some links already.

    Let me see what I can toss up:

    1] Basics and responses — Nehls and Eric

    http://answering-islam.org/Nehls/tt1.pdf

    http://answering-islam.org/Nehls/tt2.pdf

    –> In volume 1 focus on Mohammed’s life and career, noting that he is theologically set up as the ideal man and exemplar

    –> these alone are a major wake-up call, I recall responses to the story of how Aisha came to be his favourite wife . . . and at what age.

    –> There are onward references

    http://answering-islam.org/Bailey/jihad.html

    –> Documents jihad doctrine from primary sources, note Muslim apologists will try to dismiss on grounds that Quran cannot be translated, etc etc

    –> truth is, the translations that are reasonably sound are stunningly revealing, esp Surah 9

    2] Spencer’s Politically Incorrect Guide:

    http://www.amazon.com/Politica.....0895260131

    –> This seems to be a go-to quick reference

    3] Bat Ye’or on Dhimmitude:

    Lecture: http://www.dhimmitude.org/archive/LectureE1.html

    Book: http://www.amazon.com/Islam-Dh.....1611472369

    4] Terrorism:

    Hoover Inst overview: http://www.hoover.org/research.....-terrorism

    –> a useful overview.

    . . .

  121. 121
    kairosfocus says:

    Cont’d:

    Investigative Project Report: http://www.investigativeprojec.....ny/353.pdf

    Islamism & totalitarianism: http://www.investigativeprojec.....ny/387.pdf

    (Check out the whole IPT site)

    5] The Iran Nuke push

    http://www.iranwatch.org/our-p.....-timetable

    http://www.iranintelligence.com/program-history

    http://www.algemeiner.com/2015.....-program/#

    KF

    PS: On general history, these days I just don’t know. Maybe, develop research skills and a nose for what does not make sense then go through good libraries and classic sources, Web archive and Gutenberg projects, also the Fordham U sourcebook site.

    PPS: Classic study on the original Caliphate looks good: http://answering-islam.org/Boo...../index.htm

    PPPS: The Jewish Virtual Library will be useful on Israel etc: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/

  122. 122
  123. 123
    Brent says:

    Thanks KF.

    As for general history, I can go all internet and sniff out what is good, but would love to be able to use real books. Reading into the wee hours is pleasurable for me, not to mention educational, but if and when I do that via my monitor I have a virtual hangover the next morning in the form of a headache.

    I am reading an introduction to Islam currently and will most likely read more of the core of Islamic doctrine afterwards. Interestingly, my desire from many years ago now to get a general overview of world history is being met largely as I learn about Muslim history. 1400 years worth of history is impossible to get any basic understanding of without understanding Islam and its tyranny.

  124. 124
  125. 125
    Mung says:

    Islam: Past, Present and Future

    At 800 pages that should last a while. 🙂

  126. 126
    kairosfocus says:

    Brent, Spencer’s guide (a book) may be a good start: http://www.amazon.com/Politica.....0895260131 KF

    PS: I suggest printing and reading Nehls Eric TT1, a PDF. Eye-opening.

  127. 127
    Brent says:

    Yes, I do print PDFs (what I’m currently reading) and will probably print more. I will probably order the book as well.

  128. 128
    kairosfocus says:

    07: BTW, that one is more likely to be killed in other ways has little to do with the intent of terrorism, to create a climate of chaos and fear that breaks confidence in governmental ability to defend the civil peace of justice, leading to severe damage to the social fabric. In cases it may be intended to provoke a backlash and escalation into civil war. And there are significant numbers who see such civil wars over the next couple of decades in Europe. Defending the civil peace of justice stoutly now heads off horrors that credibly lurk on the path ahead. Machiavelli had a point when he said that in certain cases there is no avoiding war, it can only be unduly postponed to the advantage of others. He also said (paraphrased) that political disasters are like hectic fever. At first, hard to diagnose but easy to cure. But if, at length — for want of prompt diagnosis and proper treatment — the course of the disease is obvious to all, it is then far too late to cure. Go back and look at the trend lines on these razzias since the 1970s then realise that short sighted folly has just handed Iran (the generally acknowledged LEADING state sponsor of terrorism) was it US$ 150 billions and an opening to sprint to nukes and delivery mechanisms. Then, go read Churchill in volume I of his 6-volume history of WW II, on how Europe slept when it would have been far, far less costly to stop Hitler. History was paid for in blood and tears and those who refuse its lessons doom themselves to pay much the same price over and over again. Our march of patent folly is liable to cost us dear. KF

  129. 129
  130. 130
    kairosfocus says:

    DS,

    Mr Trump is still a significant voice and leading presidential candidate? (Is he not saying that all immigration is to be effectively shut down and all illegals sent home, not just Muslims; or, did I misunderstand on that?)

    Why is that, and what does the general political climate highlighted by the various campaigns in both major parties imply about where the US is headed? The big trends and issues in the news and those decidedly NOT in the news?

    I ask, I think there is need for sober across the board rethinking.

    Beyond this, and back on point, how are soft targets going to be hardened against razzias including assassin cult suicide attacks and how is the settlement jihad strategy to be countered?

    KF

  131. 131
    Kenneth Hughs says:

    Yes, the terrorists are winning. Not because they are rely killing that many people relative not natural death, but because they are forcing us to change how we live.

    In Canada, we are having opposition to Syrian refugees because of the fear that a few may be ISIS plants. Thankfully, the government is not giving into this hatred like people like Trump are.

    Back in the late 30s, Canada turned a ship load of Jews back to Europe. Most of them died. Why? Because they listened to the fear mongering of the anti-Semites. Why are Muslims of less value that Jews, or Christians?

    Frankly, anyone who transfers their anti-terrorism fears to an anti Muslim campaign is not worth the skin they were born with.

  132. 132
    daveS says:

    KF,

    I just saw the part about denying Muslims (immigrants and tourists) entry to the US.

    He is a leading presidential candidate, but whether his voice is significant is debatable. Jeb!, Kasich, and Fiorina realize this is way over the line and are calling Trump out.

    I honestly don’t know what your paragraph 2 refers to. If you’re asking how it is that Trump is doing so well, I’d say it’s partly that his opponents are weak and that he does have a lot of charisma. When he says these outrageous things it almost seems like he’s looking for a way to exit the race. Like he entered the campaign on a lark and it spiraled out of control.

    Regarding hardening soft targets, I don’t know. I know there is a lot of “active shooter” training going on now in schools and other institutions, so hopefully that will help. My community is an extremely unlikely target for terrorism (fortunately), but we don’t have much in the way of resources to pay for extra security anyway.

  133. 133
    kairosfocus says:

    DS, is that training, duck, cover, speed dial and say goodbye? I think the RoTh is, run, fight/swarm, hide. Play dead is about a last resort. I gather the big killer at Bataclan was explosives and shrapnel. At SB, they had a daisy-chained remote detonation IED. Did not go off thank God. BTW, is there evidence of these folks practising detonations at remote site? Or was one trained, likely the Mrs? KF

    PS: 2 – 3 flanking defenders capable of getting enfilade and intersecting cross-fire would go a long way; esp hammer-anvil style. Especially with 5.56 or better yet 6.5 or 6.8 mm ammo in a semi auto rifle. Come to think of it that is pretty much how Ajax, Exeter and Achilles took on Graf Spee.

  134. 134

    Trump appeals to a certain faction among some conservatives, but also among independents and possibly some liberals. He was after all a liberal until quite recently, if in fact he ever became a conservative.

    His numbers will decline once the field diminishes in size.

    He’s still not a serious candidate, even though he’s ahead in the polls. But that’s because there’s what, 15 GOP candidates still?

    Cruz’s numbers are surging. I was hoping that Carly Fiorina would have a chance, because I see her as the Iron Lady II. I guess it’s not to be.

    I liked Ben Carson at first, but it looks like he has a lot of problems in debates, and has no real engagement in foreign policy issues. Too bad, because I think he’s a uniter.

    The best foreign policy candidate right now, IMHO is Cruz. Foreign policy is going to be a big issue for conservatives and some liberals, now that we have had yet another terrorist attack on our soil.

  135. 135
    daveS says:

    KF,

    I’ve never had the training, so I don’t know what it consists of. Anyway, my community has 3 police officers total, and we can barely afford that. A mass shooting here is certainly possible; we have our share of weapons and mentally ill people and fanatics. Nothing like that has happened in the last century or so, however.

  136. 136
    Brent says:

    Kenneth Hughs @131,

    Why are Muslims of less value that Jews, or Christians?

    As humans they are not. As Muslims they are, and for the reason that they are adherents to Islam (or are supposed to be), and Islam hates to death, literally to death (or destruction if it is something that cannot be killed), any iota of anything not fully under the control of Islam and Muhammad.

    Your question is really akin to asking why a madman murderer is of less value than a Jew or a Christian.

    I suppose that sounds very inciteful, but read on.

    There are only two types of gentle and mild Muslims; those who are confused about how they are supposed to live under Islam (and these are also targets of jihad and they are murdered ruthlessly as well — remember the part about any iota of anything not FULLY under Islam’s control?), and those who are duplicitous and therefore lying about being mild mannered, just like the life of Muhammad, their perfect example, lays out they can, and often, are explicitly called to be. Anything is permissible if it promotes Islam — anything!

  137. 137
    Brent says:

    Kenneth,

    I should add: You are judging Muslims under a Christian ethic (whether you are a Christian or not), but the Muslim doesn’t judge you under the same ethic. Under their ethic, you are worthy of death if you don’t become a Muslim.

  138. 138
    Kenneth Hughs says:

    Brent: “I should add: You are judging Muslims under a Christian ethic (whether you are a Christian or not), but the Muslim doesn’t judge you under the same ethic. Under their ethic, you are worthy of death if you don’t become a Muslim.”

    So, you are a hateful little bigot. You must be proud.

  139. 139
    Brent says:

    I am honest about what is clearly before our eyes and taught in the Islamic doctrines.

    Why are you calling me a bigot for simply stating what Muslims will tell you they believe? You have a strange definition of bigot.

    Although, it isn’t surprising that you cannot figure this out when, for example, you already equate sending Jewish refugees away to their ultimate death and possibly curtailing Muslim immigration because they are committing mass murder. I’m happy that, apparently, you think sending the Jewish refugees away was wrong. I’m puzzled at why you cannot find a difference between those Jews who would have assimilated into your society peacefully and the Muslims who prove again and again and again that they refuse to assimilate.

  140. 140
    Kenneth Hughs says:

    I’m puzzled at why you cannot find a difference between those Jews who would have assimilated into your society peacefully and the Muslims who prove again and again and again that they refuse to assimilate.”

    I am surprised that you have not figured out the sick rationale for why the Jews were turned away. Do some research and then we can talk

    Or maybe KF can explain it to me.

  141. 141

    KH,

    You make Brent’s point for him.

    You don’t see the fascist element in Islam because you’ve been conditioned by your culture and by outside influences attempting to dominate Canadian culture with Islamophobe accusations. You’ve been conditioned to see it as a spiritual religion, rather than the Jihad, divide-and-conquer political ideology that it is.

    It’s no different than the religious cult of the Nazis. The only reason we have no respect for the Nazi cult in modern society compared to equal attrocities committed by Islamists, is because they (Nazis) tried to conquer our closest allies, and together we utterly defeated them.

    Nobody calls a person who condemns Nazism a bigot. The whole idea is incoherent.

    But to call a person who opposes Islam a bigot, or an “Islamaphobe” is equally incoherent given the data presented in links in several posts above.

    So Nazism was a religio-political ideology based on supremacy of Hitler and those of his race, that was defeated. Islam is a religio-political ideology based on the supremacy of a murderous, self-proclaimed prophet, that has never been defeated in the 1400 years of its tyranical existence. Any Westerner who has ever lived in an islamic country for any length of time (I have) will recognize this dynamic to one degree or another.

    The one I lived in was Saudi Arabia. Feminists would not have a difficult time condemning Islam as tyrannical with just one look down the streets of Riyadh. Women from Saudi who come here to America (I’ve met several), far more than the men, lose the religiosity; the veil and purity codes, and begin to emjoy the freedoms of Western society, and they do so to extreme excess. Why? Because Islam is not something they choose, but something that is forced upon them.
    ,
    In Saudi Arabia Women can’t drive a car, work among men except in certain places like hospitals and schools, can’t vote in municipal elections, must cover themselves completely when out in public, can’t receive a reasonable defence when accused of adultery, and are often killed by a family member as punishment. It’s an apartheid of the sexes; one dominating the other. These are all a part of the Sharia laws enforced not by municipal police, but by a special police force made up of imams:”religious” police. And the treatment is brutal. But the reason theocracy exists in Saudi Arabiacand many other Islamic countries; is because you can’t separate the religion from the politics. They go hand in hand. They are one.

    Read Ezra Lavant’s “Shakedown” about his battle with the Alberta Human Rights Tribunal, if you don’t think Islam has a controlling influence in Canadian culture. However, Canadians DID have the common sense to eventually curtail the powers of these tribunals.

    But the damage was done. Anyone who speaks out against Islam in Canada is labeled a bigot.

    The difference here is WE had 911. There are fewer illusions of Islamic goodwill down here.

  142. 142

    KH,

    The reason many Americans are hesitant to accept specififally Syrian refugees, is not just because they are Muslim. We have been accepting Somali Refugees who are Muslims for years, and nobody bats an eye. We reject the Syrians precisely because there’s no possible way to vet them for ISIS ties.

    Nobody thought those Jews who were refused refuge by Cuba and the US were harboring Nazis bent on terrorism. They rejected them because they were Jews. We are not rejecting the Syrians because they are Muslim, but because there’s a very real possibility they migh bring terror with them. Our fight is not with individuals who call themselves Muslims, but with the ideology under which they are oppressed.

    Responsible people are trying to come up with humane alternatives to refuge.

  143. 143
    Kenneth Hughs says:

    But the damage was done. Anyone who speaks out against Islam in Canada is labeled a bigot.”

    No. Anyone who generalizes about anything is a bigot.

    Muslims are no better or worse than Christians, Jews or atheists. I assume that you are a Christian (correct me if I am wrong). Are you comfortable being equated with the crusaders, witch burning, child molesting priests and the Westboro Babtists? I suspect not. These people/events are no more representative of Christianity than terrorism is of Muslims.

  144. 144

    “No. Anyone who generalizes about anything is a bigot.”

    That statement itslf is a generalization; which means……I’ll let you figure it out.

  145. 145

    KH,

    Here’s some specifics for you:

    http://www.meforum.org/blog/2015/12/alazhar-isis

    President of Islam’s most prestigious university refuses to criticize ISIS, because they follow the qur’an. I.e, they are not an extreme faction, but “one of us.”

    http://libertygb.org.uk/v1/ind.....s-giuliani

    Denial by the federal govt. that the qur’an actually means what it says when it states “kill the infidel.”

    https://madmimi.com/p/c37307?fe=1&pact=35177636638

    A known terror supporting organization inside the US, given free reign by the media to falsely direct the narrative.

    [ CAIR continues to claim that it does not support radical ideologies, despite growing public evidence that it has actually funded, aided, abetted and justified terrorist attacks by radical Islamists. ]

    http://libertygb.org.uk/v1/ind.....n-t-answer

    [ Why is it only Muslims who commit terror attacks on civilians in reprisals for offending religion? Where are terrorist attacks committed by Christians in response kto persecution across Africa and the Middle East? ]

    https://youtu.be/tNCfTmujfjU

    Islamophobia? Are you kidding?

    ………..

  146. 146

    KH

    I’m quitting for the night.

    Something to ponder:

    “Yes, the terrorists are winning. Not because they are rely killing that many people relative not natural death, but because they are forcing us to change how we live.”

    So you think that since the death rates are low comparedvto natural death rates, that it’s insignificant? What you seem to mean by that is that it’s acceptable. Not offending people is more important than preventing their deaths. Before you accuse me of putting words in your mouth, consider:

    Upthread is given the monthly casualty average worldwide. It’s upwards of 3,000. Half of those are deaths. More than half those deaths are Muslims themselves.

    They’re killing their own people by the thousands per year. You don’t think that might be just a bit ideological, rather than merely radically religious? As the evidence (which accumulates from top of thread to bottom) shows, Regular Muslims see no difference between themselves and the terrorists. They might interpret the scriptures differently, but they’re all Muslims; something Obama denies; which is the first fatal flaw of his policy of appeasement and capitulation. He’s committed to politically correct approaches.

    To illustrate how dangerous Obama’s political correctness is; a neighbor of one of the San Bernardino attackers noticed that they were up late at night working in the garage (where FBI later discovered their bomb factory). They had several middle eastern men coming over, and a lot of large packages being delivered (FBI also found a $28,000 deposit to their checking account a week before the attack – bomb-making material? Remote control vehicles? Tactical gear?). The neighbor failed to report what they saw for fear of racially profiling them.

    So the consequence? The deaths of 14 people and injuries to 23 others could have been prevented.

    Obama’s actions, or lack thereof, have similar consequences, only on a much larger scale. Because he’s afraid to be called a bigot, thousands of Muslims per year will continue to die. That’s the reality. So I ask you: exactly who is the danger besides the obvious terrorists?

  147. 147
    kairosfocus says:

    F/N: Wiki article lead as current summary:

    On December 2, 2015, fourteen people were killed and 21 injured in a mass shooting at the Inland Regional Center in San Bernardino, California, United States. Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik, a married couple, targeted a San Bernardino County Department of Public Health training event and holiday party of about 80 employees in a rented banquet room. Farook was an American-born citizen of Pakistani descent, while his wife was a Pakistani-born legal resident of the U.S. He had attended the event as an employee before the shooting.

    After the shooting, the couple fled in a rented SUV. Four hours later, police pursued their vehicle and killed them in a shootout. The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) began a counter-terrorism investigation because of the weapons and equipment used, recent travel to and from Saudi Arabia, and a Facebook post attributed to Malik in which she pledged allegiance to the leader of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL). FBI Director James Comey and Pakistani Interior Minister Nisar Ali Khan said that there was no indication the couple were part of a terrorist cell or network, or that they were directed by any group. On December 6, President Barack Obama called the shooting an act of terrorism in a prime time address delivered from the Oval Office.

  148. 148
    kairosfocus says:

    KH, Brent and CY:

    I suggest it is fair to note the historical roots of Islam and troubling patterns in key foundational teachings, law and practices (including state practices of Mohammed as warlord and the Caliphs, his successors) that have a legacy down to today.

    It is fair to note that in recent decades there has been a resurgence of radicalism that looks to those roots and draws on their ideas, examples, dicta and more, leading to the rise of modern IslamIST radicalism or Islamofascism since the founding of the Muslim Brotherhood in 1928.

    It is quite clear that the revolution in Iran in 1978-9 has marked a critical threshold, and that the rise of terrorism, further Islamist states and quasi-states is a trend of concern. The Muslim Brotherhood 1982 The Project 100 year world conquest plan and the related 1991 Explanatory Memo on the civilisational/settlement jihad strategy must be seriously borne in mind.

    Against that backdrop the current rate of casualties from razzias is about 3000/month just under half deaths [likely due to the use of suicide bombs in crowded areas], where most victims are actually other Muslims who evidently do not measure up to the radicals’ definition of a proper Muslim and are by them deemed apostates. Under Mohammed’s rulings and example, “apostasy” from Islam is subject to a death penalty.

    In addition, it must be understood that per Mohammed’s teaching, Judaism and Christianity as we know them are deemed to be deliberate perversions of an original Muslim form. Of course, there is no foundation for that charge, but it means that radicals will view such as wicked perverters of the perfect revelation restored through Mohammed.

    (As a measure of basic errors implicated, it is implied in the Quran that the doctrine of the Triune nature of God idolatrously elevates Jesus and Mary, over their protest, into “partners” with Allah. Shirk, the sin implied in this accusation, is deemed the worst of all sins. The doctrine may reflect a misunderstanding tracing to odd heresies in Arabia at the time but it certainly does not reflect the historic Christian view. For Jews, there is an accusation regarding Uzair, Ezra, that seems to be similarly erroneous. Unfortunately, such are embedded in foundational teachings.)

    The somewhat good news is that obviously the radicals have deep conflict with many more moderate Muslims, but that is tempered by the implication that such are intimidated and often attacked violently.

    Our hope would be for a liberalising reform that breaks the stranglehold of the radicals.

    In pursuit of that we need to expose and shame those radicals and their enablers.

    Going further, regardless of whatever random assertions have been blurted out by Mr Trump, there is a documented settlement jihad strategy and we see the dangers of Islamism dominated enclaves all over Europe, including the one near Brussels that seems to be where the Paris attacks were planned and projected from.

    In such a context a sudden wave of claimed refugees marching in uncontrolled in the dozens of thousands is uncomfortably like the barbarian invasions that contributed so much to the collapse of Rome. For, in material part, these were immigrant settlements of incompatible elements that ever more destabilised the state and community.

    That’s not racism, it is recognition of history and of indicators of a strategy.

    I know for a fact that military analysts expect full bore civil wars in Europe over what has already happened. There are already worrying riots and there is terrorism which is actually jihad by bands executing razzias. Some, assassin cult type suicide attacks.

    So, immigration policy is in need of careful examination, as is refugee policy. Careful examination, not ill informed spouting off.

    Linked to a sober geostrategic assessment.

    In which context the cosseting of the so called Arab Spring looks even more dubious now than at the time. Note, the military coup in Egypt blocked a very dangerous development.

    In Syria and Iraq (thus also Lebanon), there is need for a well judged intervention towards breaking Isis, blocking Iranian domination also. It should target some sort of reasonable regional settlement that can be stabilised.

    The Iran nuke deal championed by the Obama administration looks like very dangerous appeasement that has handed money and access to an extremely dangerous state.

    I should note the current announcement of pushing women into frontal combat roles is dubious and damaging also, It indicates a fundamental failure of military judgement. Women simply cannot handle infantry roles in this new armoured age in particular and once it is recognised that their capture implies rape etc, that will predictably destabilise military effectiveness of units in carrying out missions.

    I have spoken to the issue of target hardening and a civilian marshal corps, in the context of needing 10 second men, not minute men, in a context where SWAT units are 10 – 30+ minutes away.

    The fact that an utterly tangential talking point that boils down to confiscation is instead on the table scarce weeks after Paris further speaks to want of sound strategic judgement. FYI, in France, confiscation is a reality, and all it has achieved is to turn that city into a giant soft target.

    There is need for sober rethinking in the face of WW IV at nuke threshold and with razzias a global phenomenon.

    And the global major media have signally failed over these 14 years since 9-11.

    KF

  149. 149
    kairosfocus says:

    F/N: This is my 101 for Caribbean Christians needing to address Islam:

    ______________

    >> Islam in the Caribbean

    Islam is now being strongly promoted in the Caribbean as a major alternative to the Christian Faith, to postmodernism and to neo-paganism, as people grope for meaning in the aftermath of the disintegration of modernity. It is also not well understood in the region, and so it is properly the capstone Apologetics in action case in this primer.

    The Islamic Challenge

    Islam is rapidly growing as a spiritual challenge in the Caribbean. For example, Suriname and Guyana — the latter with Muslims as some 10 – 12% of the population — are now both full members of the Islamic Conference Organisation, OIC, and are therefore officially Islamic countries. In the mid 1990’s in Barbados, over half of recorded conversions were to Islam. Jamaica, too has a rising Islamic influence, especially through the claims[21] that the Spanish settlement from 1494 on was predominantly Moorish, and that “Moor”: (1) implies Islamic – true, and (2) includes Black African (misleading[22]).

    It is then inferred that the majority of Jamaicans are descended from Islamic Moors, who were brought here as slaves by the Spanish or the British, so that: “[c]ontemporaneous to the autonomous Muslim Maroon ummah, hundreds of thousands of Mu’minun (the Believers of the Islamic faith) of African descent worked as slaves on the plantations in Jamaica.”[23] Specifically, the Maroons are viewed as resisting the British invaders of 1655 by jihad, as Saladin resisted and finally defeated Richard the Lion Heart and the other Crusaders in the Middle East. Slave revolts, similarly, are reinterpreted by Dr. Afroz as jihads, especially the 1831/2 “Baptist War” rebellion:

    Jihad became the religious and political ideology of these crypto-Muslims, who became members of the various denominational nonconformist churches since being sprinkled with the water by the rectors of the parishes.[24] Despite the experience of the most cruel servitude and the likelihood of a swift and ruthless suppression of the rebellion, the spiritually inspired Mu’minun collectively responded to the call for an island-wide jihad in 1832. Commonly known as the Baptist Rebellion, the Jihad of 1832 wrought havoc of irreparable dimension to the plantation system and hastened the Emancipation Act of 1833. [Afroz, p. 227. NB: This claim is most improbable .]

    Thus, it is concluded by Islamic advocates that the Caribbean’s ancestral and cultural roots are largely Islamic. Islam, then, seeks cultural legitimacy in the Caribbean as being linked to our predominantly African identity, which is specifically tied to an emphasis on jihad as military struggle. On this basis, Caribbean peoples are in effect invited to turn away from both secularism and the Christian religion of our oppressors, and “return” to Islam.

    Responding to the Islamic Challenge

    The shaky historical and cultural foundation for the above claims should be quite evident: the overwhelming historical and anthropological evidence is that our “crypto-Muslim” African ancestors were in fact predominantly and very actively animistic, and that Islam first gained a significant institutionalised presence in the region with the settlement of Indian indentured labourers in the mid-nineteenth century. As for the concept that the Maroons were Moorish/Islamic to the point of constituting an Islamic community under Islamic law (i.e. an ummah), one should start by considering the fact that they have been famous, from Spanish times, for Jerk Pork — a major Islamic no-no[25]!

    But, while it would be relatively easy to challenge the above in a Seminar Room, it is another matter to take it on in the streets, or even on middle class verandahs, given the unhealed wounds of our unfinished history of oppression and injustice at the hands of “Christian” Europeans and North Americans.

    That is, just as has been the case with Rastafarianism, mere argument is not enough. For, until and unless the Church takes the lead, and demonstrates successful reformation and renewal of the cultures of our region towards sustainable prosperity and development, Islam will have a powerful appeal to many Caribbean people.[26]

    Understanding Islam

    As a part of our overall response to the growing regional Islamic challenge, it is necessary to understand and respond to Islam in general[27]:

    (1) In the early seventh century, the Angel Gabriel reportedly appeared to Muhammad, a merchant from Mecca in SW Arabia, and initiated a series of revelations that have been handed down in the Quran [“Recitation”] and the Hadiths [traditions and sayings of the Prophet]. These revelations and traditions are the foundation for Islamic teachings/belief and faith [iman], law [sharia] and community [umma], all of which are to be integrated, instituted and enforced in a properly established Muslim state.[28]

    (2) Muhammad first hesitated — he wondered if he was going mad under demonic influence, and had to be encouraged by his wife, Khadijah — but then began to preach in Mecca, where he made but few converts. While his basic sincerity was clear, he found that his claims were rejected by the Christians and the Jews,[29] and by the majority of the pagan Meccans; some of whom threatened his safety and persecuted his followers. So, after being invited to be its ruler, he fled to Yathrib in 622, which was renamed Medina, the City of the Prophet.

    (3) From the base in Medina, Islam then spread by alliance, conversion and military victories. Within a decade, Arabia was under Islamic rule. Jews and Christians were reduced to subject people status as dhimmis [protected persons], and were ultimately expelled from Arabia under Umar. It also seems that pagans were often viewed as having no religion, and were at least sometimes offered the options of conversion to Islam, or being put to the sword. All of this was in accord with the temper of the times, and it seems that at least some Christians in Syria saw the prospect of Islamic rule as an improvement over “Christian” Byzantine rule!

    (4) After Muhammad’s death in 632, at the [approximate] age of sixty-three, the process of conquest continued under Abu Bakr and the other early Caliphs. Islamic armies swept over the Persian and Byzantine empires, spreading across the Middle East and North Africa, and on into Europe and India by 711. In the West they were stopped by Charles Martel at Tours, about a hundred miles from Paris, in 732. Reportedly, Islamic sea raiders attacked the Irish coasts as well.[30] (NB: This footnote discusses the crusades and related issues, with links to discussions by Bernard Lewis and Bat Ye’or. This link, the 463 years of continual Jihad-associated attacks [not the often assumed “peaceful coexistence”] leading up to the first Crusade of 1095. Here, one may explore links on the related issues of slavery, the slave trade and abolition.)

    (5) Beyond those regions, Islam has been predominantly spread by traders and the teachings of Islamic holy men, especially the mystical Sufis. Thus for instance, Indonesia became the world’s most populous Muslim country, and sub-Saharan Africa saw a gradual Islamic penetration from the North from about the tenth century on.[31] (In recent decades, there has also been a large-scale, well organised Dawa, a missionary campaign to proclaim and establish Islam in all nations.)

    (6) Islamic believers famously practice the Five Pillars of Islam: (1) Confession that Allah alone is God and Muhammad his Prophet/Apostle — Authoritative Spokesman; (2) Prayer to Allah while prostrated towards Mecca, five times per day; (3) Fasting (especially during Ramadan); (4) Almsgiving; (5) where possible, Pilgrimage to the Kaaba in Mecca.[32] Some add a sixth pillar, Jihad, or struggle: classically, in the sense of religiously motivated military conflict to extend the sphere of Islam, but the term is also used in the “higher” sense of spiritual/moral struggle.

    (7) In the process of its initial territorial expansion, Islam viewed the world as divided into two zones: Dar al Islam [the house of submission to Allah[33]]; and Dar al Harb [the house of the sword/war]. In the former domain, those who hold to other religions — most notably Judaism and Christianity — may continue to practice their belief, but are often subjected to the conditions of the Pact of Umar, and are Dhimmis [“protected persons”] with sharply restricted Civil Rights relative to Muslim men.[34] From the Seventh Century on, this has materially contributed to the conversion of subject peoples to Islam, as people sought to gain the status of full members of the community.[35]

    (8) Treaties with non-Islamic states, on this classic Islamic view, are inherently temporary truces,[36] and the expansion of Islam by military means is always an open option. (According to some observers, the classic example of this was set by Muhammad himself, who they say broke a peace treaty between Medina and the Quraysh of Mecca,[37] and so conquered his native city, putting to the sword key opponents and critics, including a poetess who had composed satirical poems challenging his integrity.) However, from the Middle Ages on, there have been Muslim scholars, jurists and statesmen who have argued for a more permanent character to such treaties.[38]

    (9) Islam views the Old Testament prophets and Jesus as Prophets of Allah, and regards the Bible as inspired, to the extent that it has not been corrupted.[39] In particular, the concept of the Trinity is viewed as an attempt to elevate Mary — yes, Mary — and Jesus to divine status alongside Allah, that is Shirk,[40] and Christianity is therefore often viewed as idolatrous. Muhammad, as Allah’s final Prophet, has the last say on matters of revelation and fact.

    (10) As Surah 4:156 – 158 records, the Quran specifically denies the crucifixion of Christ: “they killed him not, nor crucified him . . . . Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself.”[41] Thus, the Quran’s message is explicitly incompatible with the core gospel message: “on which [we Christians] have taken [our] stand. By this gospel [we] are saved if [we] hold firmly to the word . . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures . . . . And if Christ has not been raised [from the dead], our preaching is useless and so is [our] faith . . . [we] are still in [our] sins.” [1 Cor. 15:2 – 5, 14, 17.]

    (11) As Dr Patrick Sookhdeo — who is familiar with Caribbean Islam from his upbringing in his native Guyana — also reports, “Muslims believe that Jesus will come back to earth as a Muslim, will marry and have children, then die and be buried near Muhammad. Some traditions assert that at this second coming He will destroy every cross, kill all Jews, convert the Christians to Islam, and reign as king of all Muslims.” [Sookhdeo, p. 22.]

    (12) Farrakhan’s Nation of Islam [NOI] is somewhat divergent from mainstream Islam, as it is rooted in the rejection of racism in the United States, and views Islam as the answer for the Black man. It is somewhat syncretistic between Muslim, Jehovah’s Witness and more orthodox Christian beliefs, has Afrocentric elements and views the White race as the product of breeding experiments over six hundred years by an evil scientist. In some cases, NOI spokesmen reportedly may go so far as to view white people as incarnate devils.

    Responding to Islamic Theological Claims

    Clearly, the critical theological divergence between Islam and the gospel is that Islam does not accept the need for Christ as the Redeemer/Saviour and reconciler between the Holy God and sinful, rebellious and morally defiled man. Consequently, Islam redefines Jesus as a merely human Prophet of Allah, and rejects the biblical testimony to Christ’s Eternal Sonship, Incarnation, atoning death on the cross, and his resurrection — by raising the charge that the texts have been corrupted.

    However, there is no real evidential basis for such corruption of the text, since we can directly trace its history, and that of the teachings of the Church Fathers, to the edge of the First Century. Indeed, this history is also externally supported: for example Pliny the Younger, Roman Governor of Bithynia circa 110 AD, in discussing trials of Christians, confirms the doctrinal picture we read in the New Testament. Josephus, a Jewish historian, and Seutonius, a Roman historian, allow us to carry this recognizable picture back to the 30’s to 70’s. Pagan graffiti in Roman Arenas mocks early Christians for worshipping a crucified Christ (who is sometimes mockingly caricatured with an Ass’ head). Even the Talmud, by accusing him of blasphemy and demonic powers, provides inadvertent support to the historicity of Jesus’ teachings, claims and miracles.

    In short, biblical, orthodox Christian teachings and beliefs are, beyond reasonable doubt, rooted in the historic New Testament Faith. Paul summarises the core of that Faith as he sets out the theme of his Epistle to the Romans, which dates to the 50’s in the First Century — within thirty years of Jesus’ ministry:

    [T]he gospel of God — the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David, and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God, by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. [Rom1:2 – 4.]

    Thus we may see the critical contrast between authentic Christian faith and Islam’s underlying principles: a gospel of salvation that leads to righteousness through personal spiritual transformation by the power of the indwelling Spirit[42] vs. a framework of religious laws, traditions and precedents that seeks to bring people and communities to submission and, through conformity to its rules, to reform them towards righteousness.

    Unfortunately, such a law-centred framework for achieving righteousness simply will not, and cannot, work.[43] The agonized, lived-out words of the Apostle Paul — who started his life as “a Hebrew of Hebrews . . . as for legalistic righteousness, faultless”[44] — explain why:

    We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do . . . . When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. Who will rescue me from this body of death?[45]

    In short, knowing and delighting in the righteous requirements of God is good, but it is utterly incapable of breaking through our underlying problem: enslavement to sin. Is there any hope for us?

    Thank God, yes! Paul, speaking from experience, explains why the gospel lives up to its name — Good News:

    Thanks be to God — through Jesus Christ our Lord . . . . because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set [us] free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit . . . . And if the Spirit of him who raised Christ from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit . . . . if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.[46]

    Thus, while it is appropriate to point out to our Muslim friends that there are significant misunderstandings in the Islamic picture of Christianity, that there is good historical evidence for the claims that Jesus suffered under Pontius Pilate, died on a cross and rose from the dead, and that there is solid reason to reject the claims that the New Testament is fraudulent or corrupted, these are not the heart of the matter.

    Instead, let us focus on the core issue: sin, enslavement to sin even in the teeth of delighting in laws that identify and command what is good and right, and our consequent profound need for radical Salvation and transformation from within by the Spirit of God. To access that hope and transforming power, we must put our trust in the Incarnate Christ and Eternal Son of God, who came in love, humbled himself and became obedient to the point of dying on a cross for our sins as our sinless substitute, and then rose in power on the third day as Son of God and Lord, in order that he might fill all things with his grace and glory.

    Consequently, we conclude, on a note of both warning and hope[47]:

    All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the law.” Clearly no-one is justified before God by the law because, “The righteous will live by faith.” The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The man who does these things will live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.” He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the ethne [Nations] through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

    *******

    FOOTNOTES:

    [21] Drawn from several recent academic papers, newspaper articles and exhibitions by Dr. Sultana Afroz of UWI, and others. Cf. Prof. Maureen Warner Lewis’ devastating response: http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com.....ocus3.html

    [22] The OED notes: (1) “Moor: a member of a Muslim people of mixed Berber and Arab descent, inhabiting N W Africa”; (2)“Berber: a member of the indigenous mainly Muslim Caucasian peoples of N. Africa”; and (3) “Arab: a member of a Semitic people inhabiting originally Saudi Arabia and the neighbouring countries, now the Middle East generally.” For, arising from the Islamic conquest of The Middle East and North Africa in the seventh century, and from a process of conversion to Islam and intermarriage, the Moors emerged as a new people. They played a major role in the Islamic invasion of Europe from 711 – 714 AD on, and ruled much of the Iberian Peninsula (making significant cultural contributions to Iberia and to Europe as a whole) until the Reconquista was completed when the Moorish Kingdom of Granada was defeated by Ferdinand and Isabella in 1491. There was an infusion of black, sub-Saharan Africans into the Moorish mix, largely due to the Islamic slave trade. Trade and travel into sub-Saharan Africa also led to the penetration of Islam in East, Central and West Africa. However, the predominant religions and cultures of sub-Saharan Africa continued to be animistic until quite recent times, with the rise of the Christian Missionary movement — in which Jamaicans (especially the Baptists) and other Caribbeans played no small part from 1839 on.

    [23] Afroz, S.: “The Jihad of 1831–1832: The Misunderstood Baptist Rebellion in Jamaica,” Journal of Muslim Minority Affairs, Vol. 21, No. 2, 2001, p. 227. In short, the Afroz claim is that Afro-Jamaican slaves were predominantly Islamic. (For, the historical record indicates that the population at Emancipation was 320,000, as say Rev. Devon Dick reports.)

    [24] NB: Highly unlikely, as such Anglican rectors as a rule frowned on non-conformists, especially Baptists — “immersionists.”

    [25] Similarly, Nanny is far more readily understood as an adept of African Religions than as a miracle-working Sufi Saint.

    [26] Over the past five centuries, once the Scriptures were put in the hands of the ordinary man, Christianity has frequently played a leading prophetic role in cultural and social reformation, not least in the abolition of slavery. Even the modern democratic nation-state is largely a heritage of the Protestant Reformation. [Cf. The Dutch Declaration of Independence, 1581, Duplesis-Mornay’s 1579 Vindiciae Contra Tyrannos, and Rutherford’s Lex, Rex as well as the second paragraph of the American Declaration of Independence, 1776. Also, cf. discussion here.]

    [27] Summarised fom various sources, especially Chapman’s Cross and Crescent, Cooper’s Ishmael My Brother, Sookhdeo’s A Christian’s Pocket Guide to Islam, the Caner’s Unveiling Islam and the Web site http://www.answering-islam.org.uk/ .

    [28] That is, Islam traditionally seeks territorial control as a legally established religion, through state power.

    [29] As a false prophet teaching doctrines contrary to the Jewish and Christian traditions and Scriptures.

    [30] The Crusades, strictly speaking, were therefore counter-offensives; however despicably carried out in contravention of the letter and spirit of the Gospel. They were apparently initially provoked by the harassment of Christian pilgrims in the Holy Land — e.g., in 1064-5, seven thousand German pilgrims were ambushed, with much slaughter. [Cf. the Caners’ Unveiling Islam (Kregel, 2002) pp 73 -5, and the Internet Medieval Sourcebook article at http://www.fordham.edu/halshal.....lgrim.html. [Internet extra: Cf. also here and here. Usama bin Laden’s “justification” for his terrorism is discussed here. Also cf. Bernard Lewis’ now classic 1990 paper on The Roots of Muslim Rage. Also, here is a discussion of the 463 years of Jihad-inspired attacks that led up to the first Crusade of 1095. The conquest of Canaan under Joshua is discussed here, raising several significant points that are not usually considered. (The vexed issue of the inheritance of the blessing of Abraham should be considered here also.) Finally, it is worth reflecting on Government under God and especially on his prophetic judgements against the nations, and God’s alternative: global blessing through the spreading of the gospel to those same nations. Cf. also, the cluster of links in this site’s resources page, here.]

    [31] This is why in many African nations in the band from say the Ivory Coast and Nigeria to Sudan, Uganda and Kenya, there is a consistent pattern of an Islamic North, and a Christian and/or Animist South. (The strong Christian presence in sub-Saharan Africa is in the main due to the modern Christian Missionary movements of the past three Centuries. That in Northern Africa is due to the strong base of early Christianity in the African provinces of the Roman Empire.)

    [32] Originally, the Kaaba was a Pagan shrine, reportedly dedicated to 360 gods, including Allah. The three goddesses, Al Lat, Al Uzza and Manat — who in the “Satanic Verses” Muhammad allowed prayers to be directed to — were apparently traditionally identified as Allah’s three daughters, in the native pagan religion. (Cf. Sura 53:19 – 23, subsequently abrogated and modified to read very differently in the current version.)

    [33] The root meaning of the word “Islam” is submission; such submission to Allah then results in “peace.” A “Muslim” is one who has submitted, and thus has found peace. This contrasts with the Christian/Hebraic message that there is a radical alienation from God due to sin and guilt, which must be expiated. [Cf. Rom. 5:1 -11, 7:14 – 8:19.]

    [34] For instance, their testimony in Court is regarded as not credible relative to that of a Muslim. This sharply restricts the ability of dhimmis to engage in commerce with confidence, to own property or to hold responsible positions. Thus, since this condition is deeply rooted in Islamic tradition, even where it is not officially the law of the land, it leads to a distinct second class citizen status for such dhimmis. Cf. http://www.dhimmitude.org/arch.....ct2002.htm for Bat Ye’or’s detailed review.

    [35] The consensus of the four main schools of Islamic law, Hanifi, Maliki, Shafi and Hanbali, is that adult males who leave Islam are subject to the death penalty. Even where this is not enforced through the state, such converts are often isolated from their families, sometimes under threat to their lives, and need the understanding and ongoing support of the Christian community.

    [36] Islam regards deception in war as religiously justifiable. Thus, Muhammad’s treaty with Mecca reportedly set the precedent for Takiya, described as “peace when you are weak for the purposes of defeating your enemy when you are stronger.” [Cf. Farah, The lesson of al-Hudaybiyah, http://www.worldnetdaily.com/n.....=27712.%5D

    [37] Others assert that the Meccans provoked Muhammad’s assault by attacking his allies. (It should be noted that such disputes over who first started hostilities are common. But the most salient points for our attention are that: (1) what may constitute a “provocation” in Islamic eyes is extremely flexible, and (2) “temporary truces” is a clear Islamic model for dealing with powerful opponents in the short term while preparing for renewed hostilities at a more favourable time. For, in Islamist eyes, true peace is only possible when the world is reduced to submission to Allah — the root meaning of “Islam.”)

    [38] The ambivalence in the commitment of Islamic nations to the UN Charter on Human Rights is a most important case in point.

    [39] Thus, attempts to use NT or OT texts to demonstrate the Deity of Christ will often be dismissed as instances of corruption of the text. The secularist-influenced biblical criticism of the past several centuries may also be pressed into service to support such claims, compounding the argument. Although the historical and textual critical evidence, in fact, do not support such a corruption thesis, the issue rapidly becomes one of the Authority/Credibility of Muhammad as God’s final Prophet, and so it is very hard for the evidence to be heard. Thus, relationship and trust must come before argument and debate: the truth, in love.

    [40] See Surah 4:48 and 171, and 5:116. Shirk is viewed as the most deadly of all sins, 4:48 describes it as unpardonable: “Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else.” However, the Islamic view on the Trinity reflects Muhammad’s encounters with heretical sects in Arabia rather than the biblically rooted orthodox Christian understanding of the Tri-unity of the Godhead. [Especially see Heb. 1:1 – 14, John 1:1 – 14, Phil. 2:5 – 11, 1 Cor. 12:2 – 6, Acts 5:3 – 4.] The historic Christian teaching asserts that God is One, a complex unity: a unity of Eternal being, integrated with a diversity of personal manifestation: Father, Son and Spirit. (It bears noting that Son, here, is not used in the physical sense; the incarnation is not at all parallel to the pagan tales of gods and their proclivities for pretty girls.) Thus, the tension between unity and diversity in the cosmos finds its resolution in the inherent nature of the Godhead. This is mysterious, but it is not contradictory, for even water, ice and steam share a common nature while being vastly diverse as to manifestation. More profoundly, “God is Love” [1 John 4:8] — an interpersonal, relational concept — is viewed by Christians as integral to the essential nature of God.

    [41] Cited, Patrick Sookhdeo, A Christian’s Pocket Guide to Islam [Ross-Shire, Scotland: Christian Focus, 2002], p. 39.

    [42] Cf. Gal. 5:1 – 6:10.

    [43] Cf. Rom. 9:30 – 10:21, Gal. 3:1 – 14 & 5:13 – 6:10, Eph. 4:17 – 5:21 and Col 2:8 – 3:17, esp. 2:20 – 23.

    [44] Philippians 3:5 – 6.

    [45] Rom 7:14 – 15; 21- 24.

    [46] Rom 8:1 – 14.

    [47] Gal. 3:10 – 14; Cf. Rom. 9:30 – 10:21.>>
    _____________

    I trust it will be helpful.

    KF

    PS: Fordham U Internet source guide Islam sources: http://legacy.fordham.edu/hals.....msbook.asp

  150. 150
    Brent says:

    Kenneth,

    These people/events are no more representative of Christianity than terrorism is of Muslims.

    This is the crux of the issue we have with one another here. Terrorism and barbarism is exactly what Islam teaches. If you are looking for Muslims who do not represent all of Islam, find some peaceful, keep-to-themselves Muslims. Of course, the problem there is that you cannot be sure. By most accounts, many “peaceful” Muslims blow themselves up in a crowded venue “out of the blue”. It’s the pit bull that you never know if he will suddenly try to eat you or not. The San Bernardino couple seemed like good people, until . . .

    It’s Islam’s fault, but the fact is there really are peaceful and innocent (to be pitied) Muslims, but we will never know who they are. Islam teaches barbarism, plain and simple.

  151. 151
    Brent says:

    As for Trump . . .

    I admit I haven’t read in detail, but it sounds more to me like he was advocating a moratorium on Muslim immigrants rather than an all out ban, end of story. I can’t think of why this is a bad idea. He seems to believe that we need to stop doing what we have been doing and ponder seriously before we proceed any further.

    Otherwise, if Trump is serious about the things he says, I don’t think he’s as doomed as some imagine. People are sick to death of the political gamesmanship that rules every aspect of Washington. If he can show that he isn’t just saying things to please itching ears then he may be a real contender. In one way I perhaps it’s sad because we’ve come so far as to “need” a candidate like this to interest potential voters (and I don’t mean to denigrate Trump by that). I suppose that it’s better to have a more “refined” presidential candidate, but if the policies proposed are reasonable and the candidate seems to be sincere in attempting to implement them, that’s more important than an empty suit.

    I like Fiorina.

  152. 152
    zeroseven says:

    Brent, no he is saying that all Muslims, even american citizens out of the country on holiday should not be allowed in. And muslim american citizens in america should all be put on a list and tracked. I think that is called fascism. Isn’t there also something in the constitution about freedom of religion? I seem to remember reading that somewhere.

    To be honest, all the talk of muslim terrorists is a distraction from the real issue of gun violence in america. There is on average a mass shooting every day. The vast majority do not involve muslims or any other terrorist considerations. Your chances of being killed by a muslim terrorist in America are less than the chances of being killed by a coconut falling off a tree (probably – I just made that up. but I bet its true).

  153. 153
    Kenneth Hughs says:

    07: “To be honest, all the talk of muslim terrorists is a distraction from the real issue of gun violence in america.”

    I couldn’t agree more. 355 mass shootings this year, and even that is just a small fraction of the number of people shot every year. One of the 355 mass shootings was the result of a religious fanatic and we have people wanting to ban Muslims from the US and stop Syrian refugees from landing on our shores because one or two of the thousands that are suffering might not be nice people.

    However, 354 mass shootings that were not the result of a religious fanatic, yet we are not allowed to talk about gun control.

    Here are some sobering facts:

    1) 355 mas shootings in US in 2015. Zero in Canada.
    2) Muslims make up 0.9% of US population. 3.5% in Canada.
    3) Gun deaths in US 10.4/100,000 Canada 0.9/100,000.
    4) 12,233 gun deaths in US in 2015. 14 deaths by terrorists. Zero deaths by terrorists in Canada in 2015.
    5) US rate of gun deaths higher than Canadian death rates for suicide, pneumonia, pancreatic cancer, falls, prostate cancer, liver disease, and car accidents.
    6) Canada has strict gun control laws. The US does not.

    So, in short, Muslims aren’t the problem.

  154. 154
    Virgil Cain says:

    zeroseven:

    To be honest, all the talk of muslim terrorists is a distraction from the real issue of gun violence in america.

    And that pales in comparison to the abortion violence in america.

  155. 155
    kairosfocus says:

    07 & KH:

    Re, 07: all the talk of muslim terrorists is a distraction from the real issue of gun violence in america.

    Apparently it has not dawned on you that you are ignoring context of an ongoing low intensity phase in a global war (running at 3,000 casualties of Islamist terrorism per month currently, 1/2 fatal), to play at US Domestic Politics. If you will look above you will see a lot of context you have simply failed to interact with. Yes, there is a surge of mass killings, almost all of which target soft targets and as a rule come to an end when armed resistance shows up.

    Clue no 2, it is disingenuous for you both to studiously ignore the Paris case last month, in a context of effective gun confiscation. 129 dead, with real assault rifles in use (full auto capable; note an attempt to modify one of the rifles used in CA to allow full automatic fire failed, a clue that these are NOT military grade weapons).

    Bombs also were used in Paris, based on an explosive made from hydrogen peroxide, acetone and muriatic acid — a dangerously unstable but easily synthesised explosive that is essentially un-bannable.

    Similarly, common 25 lb cooking gas cylinders and molotov cocktails are very feasible. Cutlasses or kukris can be improvised from car leaf springs.

    As for guns, AK47s are easy to secure using essentially the same techniques and routes that drug dealers use. There are dozens of millions readily available globally.

    That is the reality you obviously refuse to face.

    So, softening targets will not answer the real problem, settlement jihad (have you bothered to read the 1991 Explanatory Memo?) now backing jihad by bands carrying out hit and run or assassin cult suicide raids.

    What follows that is escalation into full bore civil conflict. Nigeria is a good example of what that can look like, or Thailand etc etc etc.

    Hence the discussion above about a civilian marshal corps, integrated into local security networks and able to give the required 10 second response time, not 10 – 230+ minutes.

    Seemingly, none of that has moved you.

    In short, frankly, you are enablers.

    Now, on your fantasy about guns and eliminating massacres by confiscation: you do not seem to realise the matches you are playing with.

    Perhaps, it has not dawned on you why the American public was always widely armed: it was a frontier society, prone to small unit raids and needing to hold ground and protect people on a local basis. In addition, there was (and still is) a significant problem of dangerous animals ranging from snakes to coyotes, wolves, cougars and bears. (My first acquaintance with that was when neighbours had relatives visit from Florida and I learned of why it was useful and advisable to carry protection when one went off into the bushes, swamps etc. When my family subsequently was based in Belize for a time, and we had to deal with a bushmaster snake in the yard (Jumping Tommy Goffe in Belize) that lesson was riveted. And duly, in the hardware stores, just so, there was a gun section.)

    In that context, due to increasing tensions with the colonies, on 18/19 April 1775, the Regulars, under orders from London in the end, marched to begin disarming colonial township militias. The colonists got wind of it and overnight 40 riders were spreading warning, starting of course with Paul Revere and co.

    When the regulars came, they faced resistance starting at a bridge.

    Shots were fired and the American Revolution was on.

    Let me snip Wiki’s summary:

    The war had its origins in the resistance of many Americans to taxes imposed by the British parliament, which they claimed were unconstitutional. Patriot protests escalated into boycotts and the destruction of a shipment of tea at the Boston Tea Party. The British government punished Massachusetts by closing the port of Boston and taking away self-government. The Patriots responded by setting up a shadow government that took control of the province outside of Boston. Twelve other colonies supported Massachusetts, formed a Continental Congress to coordinate their resistance, and set up committees and conventions that effectively seized power from the royal governments. In April 1775 fighting broke out between Massachusetts militia units and British regulars at Lexington and Concord. The Continental Congress appointed General George Washington to take charge of militia units besieging British forces in Boston, forcing them to evacuate the city in March 1776. Congress supervised the war, giving Washington command of the new Continental Army; he also coordinated state militia units.

    On July 2, 1776, the Continental Congress formally voted for independence, and issued its Declaration on July 4.[20] The British were meanwhile mustering forces to suppress the revolt. Sir William Howe outmaneuvered and defeated Washington, capturing New York City and New Jersey. Washington was able to capture a Hessian detachment at Trenton and drive the British out of most of New Jersey. In 1777 Howe’s army launched a campaign against the national capital at Philadelphia, failing to aid Burgoyne’s separate invasion force from Canada. Burgoyne’s army was trapped, and surrendered after the Battles of Saratoga in October 1777. This American victory encouraged France to enter the war in 1778, followed by its ally Spain in 1779.

    In 1778, having failed in the northern states, the British shifted strategy toward the southern colonies, where they planned to enlist many Loyalist regiments. British forces had initial success in bringing Georgia and South Carolina under control in 1779 and 1780, but the Loyalist surge was far weaker than expected. In 1781 British forces moved through Virginia, but their escape was blocked by a French naval victory. Washington took control of a Franco-American siege at Yorktown and captured the entire British force of over 7,000 men. The defeat at Yorktown finally turned the British Parliament against the war, and in early 1782 they voted to end offensive operations in North America. The war against France and Spain continued however, with the British defending Gibraltar against a long running Franco-Spanish siege, while the British navy scored key victories, especially the Battle of the Saintes in 1782. In 1783, the Treaty of Paris ended the war and recognized the sovereignty of the United States over the territory bounded roughly by what is now Canada to the north, Florida to the south, and the Mississippi River to the west. France gained its revenge and little else except a heavy national debt, while Spain acquired Great Britain’s Florida colonies.[21][22]

    In short, you had a frontier society whose liberty was won because the people were armed and had enough training and leadership to organise and fight a force in being war of exhaustion. This turned up enough victories by 1777 – 8 to gain allies, and Britain was forced to withdraw.

    These are the people who insisted that a bill of rights be attached to the constitution of 1787 as a condition of its passage. Yes, the insistence came from below, not above. And between its declaration of independence and constitution, what would become modern constitutional democratic self government was born.

    The second of the ten Amendments reads as follows:

    A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

    Given the above history, utterly unsurprisingly.

    Currently, over 100 million American households dispose of firearms. By reasonable estimates, such weapons are used up to of the order of a million times per year in defense against criminal activities; most often simple brandishing suffices. This is a full order of magnitude above the victims of firearms abuse for criminal activity.

    As to concealed carry permits:

    Since 2007, the number of concealed handgun permits has soared from 4.6 million to over 12.8 million, and murder rates have fallen from 5.6 killings per 100,000 people to just 4.2, about a 25 percent drop, according to the report from the Crime Prevention Research Center.

    In addition, millions of weapons are used for sports, hunting and protection from dangerous animals.

    Against this backdrop, the reality is that attempted registration and/or confiscation will be understood to be first steps to tyranny; mass registration being taken as preliminary to confiscation. Whether or not you believe that, that is the message that will be communicated.

    Here is the second paragraph of the US DoI:

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. –That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security . . .

    Like it or lump it, millions of Americans and others take that very seriously.

    So, the bottomline is: do you think it is worth the serious chance of civil war and disintegration of the leading maritime power that stabilises the world in order to pursue a fantasy of utopia by gun confiscation?

    (And if you wish to talk about how paranoid and silly such views are, remember it is not me but the millions who firmly believe in that premise you would have to persuade. Where in fact it is undeniable that the genocides and democides of the past 100 years consistently stand on targetting disarmed populaions. And indeed a key plank of the pact of Umar that establishes apartheid-like dhimmitude is disarmament, which has left a 1400 year history of massacre, brutalisation, rapine and enslavement in its wake. So, the millions who do not abuse firearms have a serious point.)

    I doubt that confiscation advocates would want to risk that magnitude of civil confrontation [we would see a 4th generation war], but it is easy to pose and preen on an unrealistic fantasy.

    And, oh so usefully polatrising of an electorate and distractive from massive strategic negligence, incompetence and growing failure in the face of the global jihad threat.

    Which is now at nuke threshold.

    I trust we can now lay distractive fantasies about gun free utopias to one side and deal with what is now confronting us.

    Machiavelli was right: political disorders are like hectic fever. At first hard to diagnose but fairly easy to cure. However, it is hard to get a critical mass for early action. But then, by the time the disease is obvious to all, it is too late to cure.

    Frankly, I doubt we will avert nuclear war at this stage.

    We have been fools.

    KF

  156. 156
    daveS says:

    KF,

    Frankly, I doubt we will avert nuclear war at this stage.

    Nuclear war? 😮

    Who do you think will be the first to use nuclear weapons?

  157. 157
    kairosfocus says:

    Iran, or Iran backed terrorists; with Israel and the US (Likely, Manhattan) as likely joint strike targets, London may come in for a hit too.

  158. 158
    Kenneth Hughs says:

    In short, frankly, you are enablers.”

    Then, in short, frankly, you are full of [vulgarity removed — ed]. Why do you insist that anyone who has a different opinion than yours is an enabler? Could it be because you can’t defend your own position?

    Perhaps, it has not dawned on you why the American public was always widely armed: it was a frontier society, prone to small unit raids and needing to hold ground and protect people on a local basis. “

    Or, maybe, it was an attempt to justify armed insurrection after the fact. Why do you think that the Canadian frontier society was any different than the American? Maybe you should actually do some reading instead of spouting.

    In short, you had a frontier society whose liberty was won because the people were armed and had enough training and leadership to organise and fight a force in being war of exhaustion.”

    No. I am Canadian. We won our liberty without having to fight. What is wrong with that?

    In addition, millions of weapons are used for sports, hunting and protection from dangerous animals.”

    You really have to get to the US more often. Canada has far more dangerous animals than the US. Yet, we don’t kill more people with guns than we do with cars.

    By the way, do you realize that Canada has more guns per capita than the US? The only difference is that we have far more strict restrictions on handguns and assault weapons. If you are going to debate North American history, please make an attempt to understand it.

    On a side note, why do you think they call it “The White House”?

  159. 159
    Mapou says:

    40,000 people on average die every year in the US from traffic accidents. It’s about 1.2 million fatalities worldwide. Should we compare that to gun violence? Both are bad but which one deserves the most attention from the government and the people?

  160. 160
    Kenneth Hughs says:

    Mapou: “40,000 people on average die every year in the US from traffic accidents. It’s about 1.2 million fatalities worldwide. Should we compare that to gun violence? Both are bad but which one deserves the most attention from the government and the people?”

    Why does it have to be one or the other?

  161. 161
    kairosfocus says:

    KH, go back again and look at what 07 said which you backed and which I directly responded to. That is a dismissal of a globally destabilising, nuclear threshold threat in favour of a dubious attempted solution to a problem that is predictably likely to be far worse than the disease. You may not like the summary that you are playing the enabler but that is obvious. Wake up man! KF

  162. 162
    Kenneth Hughs says:

    KF: “KH, go back again and look at what 07 said which you backed and which I directly responded to.”

    But you responded poorly. That’s not my fault.

    But, I noticed that you have decided not to respond to any of my comments about your misconception of North American history. Very telling.

  163. 163
    kairosfocus says:

    KH, that’s a naked assertion in the teeth of sobering geostrategic realities. The enabling behaviour continues. KF

  164. 164
    daveS says:

    KF,

    I wouldn’t call criticism of US gun policy “enabling behavior”. We can take it without sliding into civil war.

  165. 165
    Kenneth Hughs says:

    KF: “KH, that’s a naked assertion in the teeth of sobering geostrategic realities. The enabling behaviour continues. KF”

    And you are still full of [SNIP — WARNING, Ed]. You can keep censoring me for “vulgarity”. But the biggest vulgarity is when you claim that anyone who disagrees with you is enabling terrorists. That is offensive, stupid, and not supported by anything I have said. If you can argue against my points, do so. But stop enabling anti Muslim hatred in the name of kairosFocus’ ego.

    I noticed that you never addressed any of my points. Compare Canada to the US. Canada has a much larger proportion of Muslims than the US. We have more guns per capita than the US. We have had zero mass shootings compared to the US this year, and zero terrorist killings. Yet you continue to point the finger at Muslims. Why?

  166. 166
    George Edwards says:

    KH, I don’t think the foul language is called for. If you can’t be polite, maybe you should go elsewhere.

  167. 167
    Mapou says:

    Peace comes from unity. A house divided will fall. There will never be peace unless and until there is only one religion in the entire world. The problem is not religious violence and it is not guns and bullets. These are only the symptoms. The problem is that there is more than one religion.

    Unity is divine. Peace will eventually come to planet earth.

  168. 168
    Kenneth Hughs says:

    Mapou: “Peace comes from unity. A house divided will fall. There will never be peace unless and until there is only one religion in the entire world. The problem is not religious violence and it is not guns and bullets. These are only the symptoms. The problem is that there is more than one religion.”

    You may be surprised to hear that I agree with you. But would you be happy if that unifying religion was Islam? Or Judaism? Or Hindu? Or Buddhism? Or Odinism? Or Zeus? Or the Flying Spaghetti Monster? Or, god(s) forbid, atheism?

  169. 169
    Brent says:

    Again on Trump

    @ 07,

    Uuh . . . I think you’re wrong. I’ve, again, primarily just skimmed some articles, but Trump doesn’t appear to have said some of what is being reported; like when he talked about a certain reporter’s menstruation without ever saying a thing about it. Remember? I know how the media works. And I decided after looking over some headlines this morn that I am backing Trump even more, and that for the simple fact that the mainstream media is all out to get him. It’s a coordinated effort, and by the same media that is enabling Islam to do its jihad.

    The mainstream media is dripping with blood, as are our university professors and intellectual elites, not only over the issue of not calling Islam what it is, but on the even deeper issue of mind raping generations so that they cannot tell what they are clearly seeing. There is no difference, according to them, between a man and a cheetah. If random chance was responsible for both, I only have to “answer to” random chance. Americans are increasingly acting like animals for the very good reason that we are being told that we ARE animals.

  170. 170
    Brent says:

    @ 07 and KH,

    Why do you insist on calling equal what is clearly not equal? If I accidentally step in front of a car and get killed while walking to work, which, for me, is a much higher likelihood than being murdered by a jihadist, why does that fact, that it’s much more likely, speak AT ALL to a scenario where I was actually murdered by the jihadist?

    Or, the same question works even for mass shootings in the U.S. Why do you insist that a jihadi who kills me due to adhering to what Islam calls Muslims to do, i.e., to follow Muhammad’s perfect example, the same thing as a whacked out druggy, or ideologically motivated crazy who worked up his own private hate factory, or a person who has become emotionally unstable due to any myriad of factors, the same thing? They clearly are not. Do you really equate a coconut falling on my head and killing me to a person who kills me because they are a Muslim following their orders equal? REALLY??? It doesn’t matter which one happens more often to more people. Clearly a person who follows a well established, thousands of years old political philosophy and because of it kills me is guilty of MURDER. Are you two going to go to the police and request they arrest the coconut? REALLY?

    But this gets even more interesting! For, if coconuts falling on heads really is a concern, then you and I agree that we ARE called to action!!! Namely, responsible placement of coconut trees! AND YOU TWO ARE NOT WILLING TO DO THE SAME WITH ISLAM!

    It is now clear that you love Islam, and for the same reason, probably, that you don’t like Trump: Your opinions are formed by the mainstream media, politically correct intellectual elite establishment. I.E., mind raped. You don’t know what is clearly before your eyes. Sorry! No prizes!

  171. 171
    daveS says:

    Further to civilian marshals: Tom Tancredo, who seems to be following this thread, suggests starting a gun stamps program:

    To show we are serious about empowering 100 million citizens for self-defense, we should seriously consider subsidizing the purchase of firearms by low-income citizens. Terrorists and criminals already know how to obtain guns, so why not help the defenseless? If we can afford food stamps and housing subsidies, why not gun stamps to help urban citizens survive the next Islamist assault?

  172. 172
    Kenneth Hughs says:

    Yes, civilian marshals sounds like a great idea. Provide easier access to guns to people who shouldn’t have them. Nothing can go wrong with that idea.

    Canada and the US. Both settled by the same people. One has the second amendment. One has strict gun control. One allows the use of violence to defend property. One doesn’t. One has 355 mass shootings this year. One has zero. One has > 10 gun deaths per 100,000. One has less than one. One has a population of >3% Muslims. One has less that 1%. One has had 14 killed by terrorists this year. One has had zero. One has political leaders who want to ban the immigration of all Muslims. One wants to bring in more than 25,000 Muslim refugees.

    It sounds like Canada has the right approach.

  173. 173
    Brent says:

    KH,

    https://mises.org/blog/mistake-only-comparing-us-murder-rates-developed-countries

    I haven’t had time to read that thoroughly yet, but will later. If you want to look at stats, let’s. But let us do it honestly, eh?

  174. 174
    Brent says:

    And again:

    http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-c.....countries/

    Edit: Tidbit from that link:

    Fact: In Canada around 1920, before there was any form of gun control, their homicide rate was 7% of the U.S rate. By 1986, and after significant gun control legislation, Canada’s homicide rate was 35% of the U.S. rate – a significant increase. 10 In 2003, Canada had a violent crime rate more than double that of the U.S. (963 vs. 475 per 100,000). 11

  175. 175
    kairosfocus says:

    KH, You now have a language warning, over one of the seven words. KF

  176. 176
    kairosfocus says:

    DS (et al),

    First, a gun confiscation effort on that history as was already outlined without passing a rescinding amendment, will be for cause seen as a long train of abuses and usurpations.

    Second, the actions required to actually enforce confiscation on 100 million households and likely a similar number of businesses will be tyrannical, with many bloody SWAT team incidents against those who would normally be law abiding and in fact would be right under the Constitution, rightly understood. Retaliation will then lead to further polarisation, and the out of control spiral into chaos is utterly predictable.

    Thirdly, A good slice of both the police and the military would be alienated — there is a reason why oaths of office in the USA are locked to upholding the constitution.

    In short, you do not know the matches you are playing with as a nation, at home.

    Further to this, it is obvious that the politicians know the above, but find this is a useful way to drive wedges into the body politic, exploiting perceptions and fears of the urban and suburban progressives, who have been duly indoctrinated in various statist or semi statist ideologies for decades. In short, cynical manipulation in hopes of locking in the votes for an agenda. (I suspect this is why Trump is riding high; disgust with follytricks as usual in a very dangerous situation. Though, insofar as an onlooker can speak — and US politics has global consequences — I do not see how he is a serious candidate, in the end.)

    Multiply by how the US Supreme court was recently induced to arbitrarily try to redefine marriage, which is biologically based. The consequences of this alone are potentially fatal . . . and I know it is not politically correct to say that. Guess what, you may not be interested to answer the door but reality has sent a SWAT team to your door. It is under way.

    Your governance systems are obviously out of control and the faction and manipulation games warned against by Plato in The Laws Bk X are in full swing. Let me append on that, I just note here that this is not the first time that evolutionary materialist factionalism, radical relativism, amorality, nihilism and domineering have haunted our civilisation. 2400 years ago, Athens learned hard, hard lessons with Alcibiades as object lesson no 1. Rom 1 underscores much the same, with Nero as object lesson no 2.

    The lessons of history were paid for in blood and tears, if we refuse, neglect or misunderstand them we doom ourselves to pay the same price over and over again.

    Through Tuchmann’s marches of folly.

    Then, bring in a fundamentally unsound and bankrupting financial policy that largely subsidises said urban areas. (Echoes of Rome’s bread and circuses to keep the mob appeased come to mind.)

    Your state is out of control and heading for shipwreck.

    Aided and abetted by your major mind-mushing media and too many ill informed or cynical voices of influence.

    Voices that obviously do not understand either the lessons of history nor the linked geostrategic issues.

    It is utterly emblematic that on coming into office Obama apparently sent back Churchill’s bust.

    Churchill, descendant of the victor at Blenheim and more royal by blood than the royals of today, was precisely deeply steeped in history and geostrategic insight, with experience from colonial wars to running the Royal Navy to leading a battalion in the trenches, to being the voice in the wilderness in the 30s to coming into office on the day the blitz in the West was launched, to the Battle of Britain, to the darkest days and on to victory, then helping to forge the strategy that eventually won the cold war.

    Oh, we know better than history, in effect.

    What folly.

    Now, pull back and see the context.

    Too many in the USA and elsewhere are in patent denial of the global jihad and the nuke threshold now staring us in the face.

    You just put US$150 bn and a green light by implication in the hands of the number one state sponsor of terrorism in the world, and have pretended to partnership with it in Iraq and Syria.

    Russia IS in alliance with it (and Venezuela, bringing this into this hemisphere) and is intervening. Saudi princes are backing ISIS and likely Turkey to some extent.

    FYI, Iran is the successor to Persia and this is a good slice of the northern tier of a new Persian empire. South Lebanon is already a Persian province occupied by Hezbollah, foreign legion of Iran’s revolutionary guards, and Yemen is following suit. Venezuela has hezbollah elements. I do not know what the election just held may lead to. That I need to follow up a bit on.

    ISIS is admittedly a rival across the Sunni/Shia split, but the two are jointly sponsors of the Jihad.

    And the rising trend of jihad by bands, settlement jihad and jihad of pen, tongue and money are obvious.

    With the black flag army and gharqad tree hadiths lurking with apocalyptic force for the radicalised.

    When they sense that the jihadists are the strong horse, 100’s of millions will flock to jihadi banners as the first hadith instructs: even if you must crawl over ice and snow.

    You don’t know what I am referring to?

    Blame the media who have failed to properly brief on Islamist eschatology, the rise of mahdi as final caliph who rises with a black flag army from the direction of Khorasan, and comes to dominate the zone where ISIS now is, then the world. With the lsatterday massacre of Jews that was lifted from the hadiths and put in the Hamas covenant.

    Never heard of hadiths?

    More media failure or manipulation.

    The traditions and examples of the Prophet of Islam, considered as Allah’s ideal man and chief exemplar. Including when he married a 6 year old and took her from dolls to bed at age 9, Aisha. The favourite wife whose lap he died in when she was 18.

    Think about the implications of this.

    Multiply by his career as warlord, then that of his four immediate successors who knew him directly, and tremble.

    Radicalised Islamist states and quasi states drawing on that sort of pattern, are utterly dangerous.

    But as we speak, the feckless [and urbanised] European elites have in significant part opened up to a mass unvetted immigration of fundamentally incompatible populations that are demonstrably prone to form lawless enclaves under radical control that lead to police no go zones. Paris, last month, was only the latest case of where that leads.

    Tell me something, have you actually read the linked captured documents, the 1982 MB The Project and the 1991 MB front group Explanatory Memo, from p 15 on in both cases. These unquestionably authentic documents show the 100 year global conquest plan (a period now 1/4 way through) and the settlement jihad strategy.

    Pull back and see how the Arab Spring, so called (aided and abetted by the Obama Admin’s alinskyites) predictably turned into an Islamist Winter [revolutions normally fall to the most organised and ruthless factions and eat their children], with the major setback being the counter-coup in Egypt.

    Pull back further and see that for 14 years the major media and pols etc have consistently understated or even distorted what we are up against. For just one instance, Islam and Muslim are better understood on terms of submission than “peace.” Indeed, the concept of peace involved is that it is the state of submission under control of Allah, Allah’s prophet and revelation, Allah’s law and state, and warriors. Thus the world is dar ul Islam [the zone of submission] and dar ul harb [the zone of the sword or war]. Between the two only temporary truces for regrouping then further attack under whatever pretexts are possible.

    The past 1400 years show that only way to hold a reasonable peace in the zone of Islam and in zones it is likely to target is to hold sufficient naval and military strength backed by will to act on a sustained basis to give pause to the radicals. Likewise, it is wise to keep dominant islamic states prone to radicalisation in check.

    In short, balance of power and containment.

    I know, war is not a pleasant thought, but the long run of history is grim warning.

    Against this backdrop, the USA is the number 1 maritime power and by that fact guarantor of global trade and the choke points.

    Too often, its population, however, is disinclined to think in these terms, being familiar with the US as a continental entity that in their minds should go its own way and leave the world alone. And besides that is cheaper.

    All I will further say for now is that you may not be interested in war but war is interested in you.

    In that context, you have had major, feckless geostrategic failure. The Arab Spring initiative, the turn against Israel, the refusal to preserve a small stabilising force in Iraq are all symptomatic of that strategic failure. The ongoing deal game with Iran carries it up into a march of folly.

    The chickens are coming home to roost, bigtime.

    As I said, I doubt that nuke attacks can now be prevented, likely by suitcase/backpack nuke.

    And I have not touched on Anthrax or the like.

    You are already seeing the rising trend of jihad by bands and assassin cult attacks, aka Islamist terrorism.

    So, attempts that would soften targets and that would stir deep polarisation and even court outright 4th generation civil war, against that backdrop, are not only distractive but a further failure at strategic level.

    But then, Western Civilisation is patently suicidal.

    Obviously, I cannot change its course, but I can at least warn.

    KF

  177. 177
    kairosfocus says:

    KS, on just one point, we both know that the predominant majority of Canada’s population is in largely urbanised zones that do not have significant issues with dangerous animals [above and beyond the odd nasty chipmunk who will bite], the vast and largely empty hinterland does not count. And in that hinterland people do go armed for bear just as they do in Alaska next door. In the US there is a much larger populationin areas that do intersect with dangerous animals. Indeed, some such as coyotes, are moving in on the suburbs now. KF

  178. 178
    kairosfocus says:

    Brent, actually responsible placement of tall coconut trees is an issue, as in not by the sides of roads. Smashed windshields are an issue. Smashed heads are not impossible. KF

  179. 179
    kairosfocus says:

    KH:

    civilian marshals sounds like a great idea. Provide easier access to guns to people who shouldn’t have them. Nothing can go wrong with that idea.

    If proof of bad faith on your part was needed, this is it.

    You have obviously failed to see the context of adapting the swiss and the context of a trained and regulated process.

    But you assume and project. And double down.

    Let me go to Law 1 by this route, an instructive definition by way of warning: to lie is to speak with disregard to truth, in hopes of profiting by what is said or suggested being taken as true.

    Don’t even bother with the turnabout accusation projection game.

    The murdered Concentration camp prisoners posed in Polish uniforms next to a German radio station in Sept 1939 are enough to tell the onlookers all they need to know about that agit prop tactic.

    The thread above stands in testimony to what you either knew but thought you could sweep away with a strawman tactic, or else SHOULD and could easily have known if you were speaking responsibly.

    You have provided further demonstration of enabling behaviour.

    KF

  180. 180
    kairosfocus says:

    Brent, what Tancredo is advocating is significantly different. I am looking at organised target hardening. KF

    PS: If one segments US crime rates etc, one will see that the issue is in the main one of out of control urban zones, many of which have quite restrictive laws and regulations about firearms. They aptly illustrate that when guns are outlawed, it is the outlaws who will have the guns. (Sometimes, especially outlaws with badges.) The underlying issue is that there are serious sociocultural, familial and economic dislocation factors, and the role of drugs should not be underestimated. Not only the illegal trade, but the effects of prescribed drugs. Linked, the movement that has restricted management of the mentally disturbed is a factor. All of these and other factors interact and compound. This is a systemic issue.

  181. 181
    kairosfocus says:

    KH and Brent, a related case is Switzerland. Until some recent madman cases, very little of mass murder by guns. The population is the army by conscription as part of duty; shirkers face gaol. At home, full battle kit including a full auto rifle with ammunition, waiting for the mobilisation call. Actual encouragement of citizens to buy retired artillery pieces. Bridges etc all wired for destruction. Fortifications everywhere at strategic points. Very low violent crime rates. There is a culture of discipline, order and lawfulness, and it shows, even before the Swiss were well off. And BTW, Swiss readiness deterred German invasions twice. KF

  182. 182
    kairosfocus says:

    F/N: Plato’s warning, in the voice of the Athenian Stranger:

    Ath. . . .[The avant garde philosophers and poets, c. 360 BC] say that fire and water, and earth and air [i.e the classical “material” elements of the cosmos], all exist by nature and chance, and none of them by art . . . [such that] all that is in the heaven, as well as animals and all plants, and all the seasons come from these elements, not by the action of mind, as they say, or of any God, or from art, but as I was saying, by nature and chance only [ –> that is, evolutionary materialism is ancient and would trace all things to blind chance and mechanical necessity] . . . .

    [Thus, they hold] that the principles of justice have no existence at all in nature, but that mankind are always disputing about them and altering them; and that the alterations which are made by art and by law have no basis in nature, but are of authority for the moment and at the time at which they are made.-

    [ –> Relativism, too, is not new; complete with its radical amorality rooted in a worldview that has no foundational IS that can ground OUGHT, leading to an effectively arbitrary foundation only for morality, ethics and law: accident of personal preference, the ebbs and flows of power politics, accidents of history and and the shifting sands of manipulated community opinion driven by “winds and waves of doctrine and the cunning craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming . . . ” cf a video on Plato’s parable of the cave; from the perspective of pondering who set up the manipulative shadow-shows, why.]

    These, my friends, are the sayings of wise men, poets and prose writers, which find a way into the minds of youth. They are told by them that the highest right is might,

    [ –> Evolutionary materialism — having no IS that can properly ground OUGHT — leads to the promotion of amorality on which the only basis for “OUGHT” is seen to be might (and manipulation: might in “spin”) . . . ]

    and in this way the young fall into impieties, under the idea that the Gods are not such as the law bids them imagine; and hence arise factions [ –> Evolutionary materialism-motivated amorality “naturally” leads to continual contentions and power struggles influenced by that amorality at the hands of ruthless power hungry nihilistic agendas], these philosophers inviting them to lead a true life according to nature, that is,to live in real dominion over others [ –> such amoral and/or nihilistic factions, if they gain power, “naturally” tend towards ruthless abuse and arbitrariness . . . they have not learned the habits nor accepted the principles of mutual respect, justice, fairness and keeping the civil peace of justice, so they will want to deceive, manipulate and crush — as the consistent history of radical revolutions over the past 250 years so plainly shows again and again], and not in legal subjection to them.

    Food for thought.

    KF

    PS: Romans 1 and Eph 4:

    Eph 4: 14 So that [–> as the church matures under sound leadership and teaching] we are no longer children [spiritually immature], tossed back and forth [like ships on a stormy sea] and carried about by every wind of [shifting] doctrine, by the cunning and trickery of [unscrupulous] men, by the deceitful scheming of people ready to do anything [for personal profit].

    15 But speaking the truth in love [in all things—both our speech and our lives expressing His truth], let us grow up in all things into Him [following His example] who is the Head—Christ . . . .

    17 So this I say, and solemnly affirm together with the Lord [as in His presence], that you must no longer live as the [unbelieving] Gentiles live, in the futility of their minds [and in the foolishness and emptiness of their souls], 18 for their [moral] understanding is darkened and their reasoning is clouded; [they are] alienated and self-banished from the life of God [with no share in it; this is] because of the [willful] ignorance and spiritual blindness that is [deep-seated] within them, because of the hardness and insensitivity of their heart.

    19 And they, [the ungodly in their spiritual apathy], having become callous and unfeeling, have given themselves over [as prey] to unbridled sensuality, eagerly craving the practice of every kind of impurity [that their desires may demand].

    20 But you did not learn Christ in this way!

    21 If in fact you have [really] heard Him and have been taught by Him, just as truth is in Jesus [revealed in His life and personified in Him], 22 that, regarding your previous way of life, you put off your old self [completely discard your former nature], which is being corrupted through deceitful desires, 23 and be continually renewed in the spirit of your mind [having a fresh, untarnished mental and spiritual attitude], 24 and put on the new self [the regenerated and renewed nature], created in God’s image, [godlike] in the righteousness and holiness of the truth [living in a way that expresses to God your gratitude for your salvation].

    25 Therefore, rejecting all falsehood [whether lying, defrauding, telling half-truths, spreading rumors, any such as these], speak truth each one with his neighbor, for we are all parts of one another [and we are all parts of the body of Christ]. [AMP]

    Now, Rom 1:

    Rom 1:18 For [God does not overlook sin and] the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who in their wickedness suppress and stifle the truth, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them [in their inner consciousness], for God made it evident to them.

    20 For ever since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through His workmanship [all His creation, the wonderful things that He has made], so that they [who fail to believe and trust in Him] are without excuse and without defense.

    21 For even though [d]they knew God [as the Creator], they did not [e]honor Him as God or give thanks [for His wondrous creation]. On the contrary, they became worthless in their thinking [godless, with pointless reasonings, and silly speculations], and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory and majesty and excellence of the immortal God for [f]an image [worthless idols] in the shape of mortal man and birds and four-footed animals and reptiles.

    24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their own hearts to [sexual] impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them [abandoning them to the degrading power of sin], 25 because [by choice] they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

    26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading and vile passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural [a function contrary to nature], 27 and in the same way also the men turned away from the natural function of the woman and were consumed with their desire toward one another, men with men committing shameful acts and in return receiving in their own bodies the inevitable and appropriate penalty for their wrongdoing.

    28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God or consider Him worth knowing [as their Creator], God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do things which are improper and repulsive, 29 until they were filled (permeated, saturated) with every kind of unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice and mean-spiritedness. They are gossips [spreading rumors], 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors [of new forms] of evil, disobedient and disrespectful to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful [without pity].

    32 Although they know God’s righteous decree and His judgment, that those who do such things deserve death, yet they not only do them, but they even [enthusiastically] approve and tolerate others who practice them. [AMP]

    Lessons of history, with Alcibiades and Nero as chief exhibits.

  183. 183
    kairosfocus says:

    PS: Notice, the diversion of this thread from thinking about the Jihad that is upon us? And, the geostrategic failure now in progress? Are we not curious to ask why it is we know so little about Jihad, its links to classical Islam and to Islamic eschatology? The geostrategic issues at stake? The cost of failure? The realistic alternatives? Even, what it would take to harden the multiplied thousands of soft targets for razzias by jihad bands, including assassin cult suicide attacks? And more? Just ask: who benefits, how, from such inattention, and who are liable to pay the future credible costs?

  184. 184
    kairosfocus says:

    PPS: Ponder also, the way that effectively the same folks likely to object to design thought respond to things where much more direct evidence is on the table, albeit evidence that does not tickle itching ears with what they want to hear. Connect the dots.

  185. 185
    kairosfocus says:

    F/N: Target hardening 1, the built environment. Initial ideas:

    1: Control access, and monitor it — preferably vid feed that can be patched through to SWAT support.

    2: The gate should be barred, and there should be security control, with sufficient fencing or walls.

    3: Parking lots should be monitored with access for security points in sufficient cross-fire to provide enfilade.

    4: Building access and corridors as well as entrances to bathrooms, stairs, elevators etc should be monitored and there should be ways to block and/or defend access.

    5: Large halls should be access controlled with defensive points. There should be several emergency exits so rapid evacuation can be done.

    6: Multiple, overlapping monitoring, linked to police or contract security.

    7: Halls should have at least three defensive points in mutual support so that cross fire and enfilade can be implemented.

    8: Marshals should be able to rapidly and securely access such points, with prepositioned weapons. Such marshalls should have high capacity 9 mm weapons, or even PDW upgrades on or next to them at all times on duty. And of course, beepers that can alert them to patch into the defense network. Personal alarm buttons too that will call in the network.

    9: I suggest the prepositioned points should have 6.5 or 6.8 mm semiauto weapons with low mag scopes and also IR scopes in some cases. Such exist, on AR15 type frames. (Back in the 60s the 6.5 or 6.8 mm should have been settled on not 5.56, for many reasons. The long range shootings problem in Afghanistan is just one sign. I also suggest consideration of bullpup configuration weapons. A version on the Tavor TAR 21 looks like a useful place to go to.)

    10: AP rounds should be available. And of course body armour.

    11: The intent is to contain, channel and block the razzia, buying time until reinforcements come in.

    12: Metal reinforced zip ties should be available in quantity.

    13: So should trauma kits, and it would help to have trained medics to military standard.

    14: Secure wireless comms with a command centre and an alternate.

    15: Big enough facilities should have roof helipads, as access points for SWAT support.

    16: Ditto for secure tunnels, which can also serve as exits for VIPs liable to be taken hostage.

    17: Hospital hotlines, and of course aid posts with stretchers. I assume medevac helicopters will be within Golden Hour reach, with designated mass casualty trauma centres.

    18: Zones at major risk should have air defence zones, tied to national networks. The NY Financial District and Washington DC are obvious cases in point.

    Doubtless, more.

    I am just putting on the table a sketch to show the level of training, organisation and co-ordination that are indicated.

    At higher levels, steps should be taken to monitor for emergence of cells and Jihad settlement enclaves.

    Any sign of a police no go area should be taken as grounds for military occupation and resolution of issues leading to long term enhanced police presence. And while that is in the mix, the same can doubtless be extended in some reasonable measure to general crime hot spots.

    Given the religiously motivated ideology problem, Mosques should be routinely, random sample monitored, and clerics also; there is abundant evidence of prior concern — such is not a matter of blind fishing expeditions. Signs of radicalism call for focussed monitoring and prompt intervention.

    And so forth.

    KF

  186. 186
    daveS says:

    KF,

    First, I am not at all in favor of confiscating anyone’s guns. Perhaps there are more measured steps we could take to prevent the mentally ill, for example, from getting access to guns.

    In short, you do not know the matches you are playing with as a nation, at home.

    Your state is out of control and heading for shipwreck.

    Good grief! We have our problems, but it’s not that bad.

  187. 187
    daveS says:

    KF,
    From #184:

    Any sign of a police no go area should be taken as grounds for military occupation and resolution of issues leading to long term enhanced police presence. And while that is in the mix, the same can doubtless be extended in some reasonable measure to general crime hot spots.

    Military occupation?

    Are you talking about the USA here?

  188. 188
    kairosfocus says:

    DS, The US in an acknowledged state of war. A settlement Jihad enclave should be seen for what it is, a hostile bridgehead. A zone in which a warlord or a junta of Islamists (often complete with Sharia pseudo courts) is set up should be seen for what it is. A key warning flag would be, police no-go. I am not talking, mere gated communities or the like. Such zones are apparently increasingly a dime a dozen in Europe; the Paris attack came out of one near Brussels. The point for military (likely National Guard) intervention is to break hostile powers, ferret out arms caches, capture insurrectionists, and then hand over to the civil police. The French have a police force that is an army unit, the Gendarmes, but the US system does not have that. KF

  189. 189
    Kenneth Hughs says:

    KF: “KS, on just one point, we both know that the predominant majority of Canada’s population is in largely urbanised zones that do not have significant issues with dangerous animals [above and beyond the odd nasty chipmunk who will bite], the vast and largely empty hinterland does not count. And in that hinterland people do go armed for bear just as they do in Alaska next door. In the US there is a much larger populationin areas that do intersect with dangerous animals. Indeed, some such as coyotes, are moving in on the suburbs now. KF”

    Your lack of knowledge about Canada and the US is quite astounding. Canada has all of the same dangerous animals as the US does, and in close proximity to people. Yet, we manage to wander around without the need for guns. We have coyotes, wolves, bears, cougars, etc. in fact, we have the only animal in North America that actively stalks humans has prey.

    But let’s get back on target. Your list @185 is a joke. Yes, we can certainly do this at a huge cost. But if we do this we have as much as said that the terrorists have won. Yes, reasonable security precautions are a good idea, but I am not prepared to turn my country in to an armed camp.

    Let’s look at the numbers. In the worst year for terrorism in the US, terrorism deaths were still less than 1/4 of that of gun related deaths. You want us to spend billions on walling ourselves off from terrorists yet refuse to admit that access to guns is a huge problem.

    But terrists acts are unexpected, and kill innocent people. This hits at a different emotional level than many (but not all) of the gun related deaths. So let’s take the gun culture off the table and compare terrorist deaths to something else that kills far more people, innocent people, of all ages. And something that is completely preventable. Car accidents. We could prevent all of these unnecessary deaths by banning the car. But I think we both agree that this is undesirable. But what about changing the road system so that all roads are divided and all intersections are on different levels. This wouldn’t eliminate car deaths but it would very significantly reduce them. Then why don’t we do it? The answer is simple. Cost. In both dollars and convenience.

    Your list would cost billions and billions of dollars. The dollars alone would make it prohibitive. But to me, the cost to freedom is the show stopper.

  190. 190
    kairosfocus says:

    KH, People in urban areas or suburban simply do not face the same hazards. Anyway, enough has been said on tangents. The key issue in the table is that there is a Jihad to be addressed soberly. And BTW, Jihadism is a global threat, it is policing that has kept actual mass death attacks in the US fairly low since 9-11, though a fair number of cases need to be reclassified. Global threats need to be addressed globally lest they be manifested uncontrollably locally. A backpack nuke going off in Manhattan would be far too late, for instance. Where also, Paris (gun free zone Paris) is the yardstick for what is on the table now: AK47 wielding terrorists shooting up unarmed unprepared civilians, and using suicide vests to up the casualties, coming out of Jihad dominated settlements. In terms of costs of preparation I say: pay now, or pay later with severe interest. KF

  191. 191
    kairosfocus says:

    DS, on the out of control state first take a look at the Federal budget deficit, accumulated national debt and implicit but unfunded obligations. Historically the way out of that is hyperinflation, which is what destabilises the middle classes. Try 1923 Germany for size. Then look at the geostrategic liabilities that are beginning to pile up, with Iran as a key case in point. Don’t overlook what your courts have been up to. KF

  192. 192
    daveS says:

    KF,

    DS, on the out of control state first take a look at the Federal budget deficit, accumulated national debt and implicit but unfunded obligations.

    Aren’t we rather typical with regard to public debt? Similar to countries in Western Europe and Japan?

    Don’t overlook what your courts have been up to.

    Referring to the issue of same-sex marriage, I assume? Which is also legal in Israel, Canada, and most of Great Britain and western Europe?

    This all seems like alarmist rhetoric with little basis in fact.

  193. 193
    kairosfocus says:

    DS, you have it exactly back way around. The US is chief prop of the world economy and has out of control debt and deficits plus unfunded implicit obligations plus geostrategic liabilities piling up. Your courts are making all sorts of ill-founded rulings, and so on and so forth. Historically such debt has been monetised through hyperinflation, and the resulting destabilised middle classes set up a dangerous condition. And, I am just highlighting. If you don’t see implications I cannot help you but I am quite pessimistic about our civilisation which looks to be in for a wild, bloody, horrifically costly and destructive ride that I do not even want to contemplate. KF

    PS: Whether by parliaments or courts, we don’t get to define marriage, which is locked to our biology of reproduction and child nurture needs. The presumption that we can say a few magic words and contemptuously sweep away something embedded in creation order is a pretty good indicator of how deeply delusional, endarkened, clouded, benumbed, bewitched and reprobate in mind and heart we have collectively become. Our march of folly on this as on so many other matters, will end over the cliff.

    PPS: Ac 27 as a case study on democracy manipulated into a march of folly, and where it ends.

  194. 194
    Zachriel says:

    kairosfocus: Historically such debt has been monetised through hyperinflation

    While U.S. debt is high, deficits have come down substantially since the Great Recession, while U.S. inflation rates have been at historically low levels for many years now.

  195. 195
    daveS says:

    KF,

    PS: Whether by parliaments or courts, we don’t get to define marriage, which is locked to our biology of reproduction and child nurture needs. The presumption that we can say a few magic words and contemptuously sweep away something embedded in creation order is a pretty good indicator of how deeply delusional, endarkened, clouded, benumbed, bewitched and reprobate in mind and heart we have collectively become. Our march of folly on this as on so many other matters, will end over the cliff.

    I’m reading only more gloom-and-doom rhetoric. Do you expect same-sex marriage to take Canada down anytime soon?

  196. 196
    kairosfocus says:

    Z,

    I only wish that were so and were sustainable.

    The US National Debt, trillions and percent of GDP:

    1970 –> 0.38 t –> 35% GDP

    1975 –> 0.54 –> 32%

    1980 –> 0.91 –> 32%

    1985 –> 1.8 –> 41%

    1990 –> 3.2 –> 53%

    2000 –> 5.6 –> 54%

    2005 –> 7.9 –> 60%

    2008 –> 9.9 –> 67%

    2012 –> 16.1 –> 99%

    2014 –> 17.8 –> 102%

    In short, running out of control.

    But that is not the whole story:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/re.....-trillion/

    >>Jan 17, 2014 @ 07:00 AM 47,394 views

    You Think The Deficit Is Bad? Federal Unfunded Liabilities Exceed $127 Trillion

    By Vance Ginn

    Although the battle over a two-year budget deal and the national debt limit in Washington, D.C. has received the lion’s share of media attention recently , the bigger, more ominous threat facing taxpayers are unfunded liabilities—the difference between the net present value of expected future government spending and the net present value of projected future tax revenue, particularly those associated with Social Security and Medicare . . . . The federal unfunded liabilities are catastrophic for future taxpayers and economic growth. At usdebtclock.org, federal unfunded liabilities are estimated at near $127 trillion, which is roughly $1.1 million per taxpayer and nearly double 2012’s total world output. >>

    Of course there can be a considerable argument on details, but it is hardly arguable that the US owes a lot more explicitly and implicitly than it can pay off.

    History says, and Germany 1923 is a classic reference point, such burdens of Govt are monetised. (That is how Germany dealt with its WWI obligations. The alienated middle class made revolution possible. )

    Hyperinflation.

    KF

  197. 197
    kairosfocus says:

    DS, I expect our cumulative folly as a civilisation on many many dimensions to come due through a wild, bloody, destructive and brutally expensive ride in coming decades. I don’t like to think about it any more than the next man, but sometimes we have to face realities. We can eat cabbages or potatoes and live, my big concerns are nukes (including EMP attacks as a possibility) and bio-weapons as the ME spins utterly out of control. It is already at nuke threshold and is already coming apart at the seams, with Jihadism pushing a dangerous witches brew indeed. KF

  198. 198
    zeroseven says:

    we have same sex marriage in NZ (introduced by a conservative government). So far it hasn’t led to the demise of civilisation here.

    KF, even for you, your rhetoric is getting out of control. I think you should go and take a walk on the beach. Does anyone other than KF think the US should start engaging in military occupations of its own territory? You are getting carried away with your apocalyptic fantasies.

  199. 199
    Zachriel says:

    kairosfocus: I only wish that were so

    We stated facts.

    kairosfocus: and were sustainable.

    Your own chart shows that debt-to-GDP has leveled off.

    kairosfocus: You Think The Deficit Is Bad? Federal Unfunded Liabilities Exceed $127 Trillion

    Over the same 75-year period, cumulative GDP is expected to be about 3000 trillion dollars, more than enough to cover the expected liabilities. The U.S. has several short and medium term problems, including the upcoming retirement of the baby boomers, but none of these problems are beyond what America can afford. It’s just a matter of making some fundamental decisions on taxes and spending.

  200. 200
    kairosfocus says:

    Z,

    Nope, look at the trend.

    And that is not counting the real whopper, BTW I updated and extended cite and timeline back to 1970.

    The current estimate on the clock is over 100 trillion.

    07:

    I do not expect any one thing to be a deal breaker, it is the cumulative effect of our folly as a civilisation. On ever so many dimensions, it just so happens that the Jihadis came up over the recent events. Ponder our environmental mismanagement, coming water crises [esp in the ME], the demographics bomb, the Chinese demographics bomb, and a few other choice bits of folly into the bargain.

    KF

  201. 201
    Zachriel says:

    kairosfocus: Nope, look at the trend.

    The average {linear} trend from 1985 to 2008 is about 1.6% per year. It jumped between 2008 and 2012 to 8% per year, which most clearly was due to the Great Recession. Since then it has returned to the previous trend. That’s according to your numbers.

    ETA: The average exponential trend from 1985 to 2008 is about 2.2% per year. It jumped between 2008 and 2012 to 10.3% per year, which most clearly was due to the Great Recession. Since then it has returned below the previous trend. That’s according to your numbers.

    kairosfocus: The current estimate on the clock is over 100 trillion.

    Which is high, but sustainable as long as the U.S. continues to make an effort to control deficits.

  202. 202
    kairosfocus says:

    Z, I wish I could share your optimism. KF

  203. 203
    Kenneth Hughs says:

    KF @ 193: “PS: Whether by parliaments or courts, we don’t get to define marriage, which is locked to our biology of reproduction and child nurture needs.

    OK. Now I am really confused. What does legalizing same-sex marriage have to do with global jihad? I understand that ISIS may not like the idea, but, frankly, I don’t give a piece of fecal matter what they think.

  204. 204
    kairosfocus says:

    KH, Someone else raised it, I simply note it is yet another sign of our accelerating, proverbial lemmings march civilisational folly that we think we can arbitrarily redefine something rooted in the biology of reproduction and requisites of sound child nurture. There is simply no shortage of such signs. KF

    PS: Terrorism is an act of war, or of piracy, and is typically in itself a war crime by way of targetting non-combattants.

  205. 205
    kairosfocus says:

    F/N: Just to keep track, it seems FBI is saying the couple were radicalised before becoming a couple. And of course Farouk had a friend buy the rifles four years ago. Data recovered from the electronics (after apparent attempted destruction) points to other potential targets. The hunt is on for a wider cell and/or network. KF

  206. 206

    “Canada and the US. Both settled by the same people. One has the second amendment. One has strict gun control. One allows the use of violence to defend property. One doesn’t. One has 355 mass shootings this year. One has zero. One has > 10 gun deaths per 100,000. One has less than one. One has a population of >3% Muslims. One has less that 1%. One has had 14 killed by terrorists this year. One has had zero. One has political leaders who want to ban the immigration of all Muslims. One wants to bring in more than 25,000 Muslim refugees.”

    One has over 300 million people, and is recognized as a world power; therefore, more vulnerable to attacks. One has less than 1/10 of that 300+ million population and is not a recognized world power, so is not as vulnerable to attack. One is free and tolerant, the other is not. That’s why I live there no longer. Can you guess which is which? Apples to oranges.

    Both are likely to have major terror attacks in the near future. That’s what one should be focusing on.

  207. 207
    Kenneth Hughs says:

    CY: “ One is free and tolerant, the other is not.”

    I am glad that you acknowledge that Canada is freer and more tolerant than the US.

  208. 208
    Kenneth Hughs says:

    The one thing I see missing from KF’s list at 185, and the one that would have the greatest impact, is to shut down the Internet. Would KF support this action? After all, most of these lone-wolf terror attacks have been the result of Internet radicalization.

  209. 209

    KH,

    “I am glad that you acknowledge that Canada is freer and more tolerant than the US.”

    Hardly. Canada apparently encourages speech laws; which are hardly tolerant. Throwing people in jail, or fining them for speech violations is not freedom. It is unfortunate that the US is swinging that way as well, but there IS hope. In the US, citizens have a right to be dissidents; as long as they do so peacefully. In Canada? Not so much.

  210. 210
    Kenneth Hughs says:

    CY: “Hardly. Canada apparently encourages speech laws; which are hardly tolerant. Throwing people in jail, or fining them for speech violations is not freedom.”

    Do you have examples? Who have we jailed for what they have said? I await an answer.

  211. 211
  212. 212

    KH,

    You see, in Canada, unlike here in the US, the government has decided that the way of handling dissent is to control speech. They have also decided that there are certain protected classes; namely Muslims, who have a right to complain about things as mundane as being offended by speech. So if I am a Muslim and I take offense at what someone has said, or printed in a magazine, I can haul them before a tribunal and shake them down for reprisals.

    Now, Ezra and other Canadians fought that nonsense about a decade or so ago, and won; but the sentiment is still there. The structure has not completely been eliminated.

    http://chrt-tcdp.gc.ca/NS/index-eng.asp

    Have a look at some of the cases prior to 2011.

  213. 213
    Brent says:

    CY & KH,

    Sorry if I seem a flip-flopper of sides here (and display even more cynicism), but while Canada apparently has a legal, more straightforward way to jail people for speaking their beliefs, I’m sure many examples of people being jailed in the U.S. can be found, albeit with trumped up charges listed as the official reason.

    There are more supposed protections of individual freedoms in the U.S., but what does it matter when there are so many laws and ordinances enacted that can be used to charge anyone at any time? In the U.S., we don’t need to pass any specific laws to curb free speech.

    I’m not saying that we don’t still enjoy better protections generally — I think we do — but it isn’t only a matter of explicit rights, and that is due to the willingness of ruthless and unethical officials to do whatever they determine to do for whatever reason. In that sense, laws specifically curbing freedoms are more honest and moral. At least I have a fair warning that I may be shackled.

    At the end of the day, those who wield the sword for the purposes of our protection are just as immoral and susceptible to failings than anyone, and our practical freedoms are ultimately weighed on that balance.

  214. 214
    Kenneth Hughs says:

    CY, I asked for a single example of a person being jailed in Canada for what they said. And you give me Ann Coulter and Ezra Levant, both media whores in the extreme. Neither were jailed. Neither were charged with anything. And that is the best you can produce.

    Ann Coulter was advised by the university president that Canada has anti hate laws. Which we do. And it is hardly ever used. She went to give a speech at the university and was met by student protesters, expressing their right to free speech. There wasn’t any violence, or threats. The university told her that because of the protesters that the speech would have to be moved to another venue on campus. A larger venue. One in which the police could better monitor the protesters. She chose to play the martyr and REFUSED to give her speech, claiming that she was not permitted to speak. In short, she lied.

    And Ezra. A lawyer disbarred for ethical violations. A broadcaster with a long history of misrepresenting the facts to support his opinion. Good pick.

    And these are your best examples of freedom violations in Canada? Why didn’t you provide the example of the holocaust denier who was charged and convicted of hate speech for inciting hatred against Jews? That one, at least, is true.

  215. 215
    Brent says:

    I think I agree 100% with Ann Coulter. Many things stated in an over-the-top fashion, as I often do, but the core of what she is saying is reasonable.

    All emphasis via bolded is mine.

    Perhaps more easily read here: http://dailycaller.com/2015/12.....day-to-me/

    Happy Birthday To Me!
    Ann Coulter
    Political Commentator
    6:26 PM 12/09/2015

    For my best birthday gift this week, Donald Trump called for blocking Muslim immigration to the United States. If he throws in all immigration, it will be my merriest Christmas ever.

    By contrast, the eunuchs running against Trump went mental.

    Marco Rubio called Trump’s proposed moratorium on Muslim immigration “offensive and outlandish.”

    Rubio’s idea for stopping Muslim terrorist attacks on U.S. soil is something simple: Launch several wars to clean up the entire Middle East.

    Chris Christie called Trump’s plan “ridiculous,” saying, “This is the kind of thing that people say when they have no experience and don’t know what they’re talking about.”

    People with “experience” say things like: Walls don’t work and are “too expensive.”

    Ted Cruz said he disagreed with Trump and instead would focus on “radical Islamic terrorism.” Cruz will have a lot more radicals to focus on if we keep importing a quarter million Muslims every year.

    And these were Republicans. MSNBC acted as if the nation had come under terrorist attack (by a Muslim immigrant) with its round-the-clock, breaking-news coverage of Trump’s proposal, rife with images of dangerous demagogues from George Wallace to Hitler.

    People without real arguments call anything they don’t like “racist” or “unconstitutional.”

    Trump’s proposal is neither — I won’t waste space mentioning 100 years of constitutional law and practice, but of course our country has absolute authority to decide who gets to immigrate here.

    In the 14 years since Muslims killed 3,000 Americans on 9/11, this country has admitted another 1.5 million Muslims. So we’re xenophobic, bigoted racists if we don’t make it 2 million? Three million? When will we have enough? How many murdered Americans is an acceptable number before we can shut off the spigot of Muslim immigration?

    The amazing thing is that no one (except the American people) wants any pause in Muslim immigration — even after more than a dozen Muslim terrorist attacks on our soil in the last 15 years.

    House Speaker Paul Ryan announced that he will refuse to consider cuts to Muslim immigration, saying, “That’s not who we are.”

    Republicans are totally copacetic with Pew’s recent finding that white Christians are now a minority in America, but furious with Trump for suggesting we take a break from importing Muslims.

    Can we move them to Ryan’s district? According to Pew, only 11 percent of Muslims are Republican or “lean Republican.” They may not make the “best Americans” — as Ryan claims — but at least they’d get rid of him.

    The hysterical demand for never-ending Third World immigration has gone beyond the rich’s need for cheap servants and the Democrats’ need for voters. It’s a mass psychosis.

    Everyone acts as if Pakistani pushcart operators are the same as American blacks, and we’re required to bring them here to make up for the legacy of slavery.

    Foreigners aren’t the descendants of American slaves! The rest of the world does not have a civil right to move here. We’re under no moral imperative to allow any immigration at all. We don’t owe citizens of other countries anything.

    But as long as you brought it up: They owe us. America runs around saving other countries from tsunamis, earthquakes, pirates, disease, starvation, warlords, dictators, Nazis, communists — then their citizens show up full of grievances, as if we owe them.

    Angry Muslims have been popping up all over TV to denounce Trump and complain about anti-Muslim bigotry in the U.S. If they’d prefer a country with a larger Muslim population and no white devil oppressors, low-rent mud huts are available in any of about 50 Muslim countries around the world. First month free; after that, two goats a month.

    In addition to the thoughtful policy objection that Trump is a racist, we’ve been treated to an endless stream of stunningly stupid arguments against Trump’s proposal.

    Fox News’ Dana Perino complained that Trump’s policy doesn’t “distinguish the peaceful from the radicals.”

    Yeah, nor can our government.

    Given the devastation caused by only two Muslims in San Bernardino, eight Muslims in Paris, two at the Boston Marathon, one at a Chattanooga military recruitment center, one at Fort Hood, 19 on 9/11, etc. etc. — it’s really irrelevant whether “most” Muslim immigrants are peaceful little lambs. It doesn’t take a lot of them to create havoc.

    I don’t know why we need any.

    While it’s fantastic news that most Muslim immigrants aren’t terrorists, as Samuel Johnson said, “A horse who can count to 10 is a remarkable horse, not a remarkable mathematician.”

    We want remarkable Americans, not immigrants whose selling point is: “hasn’t blown anything up yet.” What’s the upside of admitting 250,000 poor, culturally backward, non-English-speaking Muslims every year? When are we allowed to talk about what’s good for America?

    San Bernardino shooter Syed Farouk’s mother described his father — the original immigrant — this way: “My husband is mentally ill and is on medication but is also an alcoholic and drinks with the medicine.”

    Fantastic. So glad we got him. The father, who has been here since 1973 — thanks, Teddy Kennedy! — told an Italian newspaper that he preached moderation to his son, saying it’s not worth fighting Israel, because Russia, China and the U.S. “don’t want Jews there any more.” In “two years,” he assured his son, “Israel will not exist any more.”

    So after four decades in American culture, these highly integrated, model immigrants are still clinging to their insane magic potion fantasies.

    The senior Farouk didn’t come here to work in some highly complex technical field, like nuclear physics or cell extraction biology. He’s a truck driver. So one American lost his job as a truck driver and 14 Americans lost their lives because of Ted Kennedy’s 1965 immigration act.

    How else have the 1.5 million Muslims admitted since 9/11 made our country better? Their massive welfare use? Overburdening our schools and hospitals? The machete attacks? The clitorectomies? The honor killings? The occasional terrorist attack?

    Currently, there are more than a thousand active investigations of ISIS in all 50 states. Here’s an idea: Instead of paying for an ever-expanding federal workforce to track, wiretap and investigate immigrants with possible terrorist sympathies, let’s stop bringing them in!

    Beginning to sense the public’s fury, a number of Republican politicians have been trying to talk tough on immigration. This week, Trump proved that that’s all it is: talk.

    Copyright 2015 Ann Coulter

  216. 216
    Brent says:

    Partial copy paste of MM getting their butts handed to them by Trump yet again.

    Link: http://www.express.co.uk/news/.....ion-London

    ‘Trump is right!’ Police say parts of Britain ARE no-go areas due to ISIS radicalisation
    Nick Gutteridge

    British police and Donald Trump
    Serving police officers have backed up Donald Trump’s claim

    Serving officers in terrorist hotspots including London and Birmingham said that forces are becoming increasingly nervy over the rising threat of Islamic State (ISIS) inspired attacks, with some telling staff not to wear their uniforms in their OWN patrol cars.

    One officer in London said the firebrand presidential hopeful was “pointing out something plainly obvious” whilst another in Lancashire said the police have to ask local Muslim leaders for PERMISSION before sending patrols into their communities.

    Their shocking testimonies are in stark contrast to the official responses from politicians and the Metropolitan Police, who have rounded on Mr Trump’s controversial claims.

    The Republican frontrunner provoked fury across the globe on Monday when he said that all Muslims should be banned from entering America to combat terrorism.
    Related articles

    During a tub thumping speech to party activists he also took a swipe at Britain, saying: “We have places in London and other places that are so radicalised that police are afraid for their own lives.”

    His comments were widely derided by British politicians including David Cameron, who called them “divisive, unhelpful and quite simply wrong”.

    The Metropolitan Police also issued a withering statement saying Mr Trump “could not be more wrong” whilst London Mayor Boris Johnson said his claims were “utter nonsense”.

    But they have today been fatally undermined by members of the rank and file, who have said that fear of Islamist extremism within Britain’s police is widespread despite the protestations of the authorities.

    ______________________________________

    The article continues: http://www.express.co.uk/news/.....ion-London

  217. 217

    KH

    In Alberta you can be sanctionrd as a lawyer for “criticizing a court or tribunal.” That’s the “ethical” violation of which Ezra Levant is supposedly guilty. In other words, he’s guilty of exercising free speech. Once again, you’re making peoples’ points for them.

    http://www.nationalpost.com/m/.....commission

    http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/ca.....-1.3154133

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com.....ice=mobile

    http://cafe.nfshost.com/?p=892

    Yes, upset the status quo in Alberta and you’re skinned and fried.

    Free speech is dead in Canada, and what’s more shocking is that liberal radicals supported free speech back when it was fashionable to do so. Now the radicals have become the elites, and they are the worst anti free speech offenders, since they gained power. Disgusting.

  218. 218

    KH,

    Re: Coulter:

    [ “I was just worried that things were going to be said about certain groups of people that were going to make them feel very unsafe and very uncomfortable and we promise our students here at the University of Ottawa a safe, positive space,” said Rita Valeriano, a second-year sociology and women’s studies student. ]

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com.....ice=mobile

    Wow. So that’s where the “safe space” movement got started? Perhaps? Gotta protect the poor students from Ann’s microaggressions, because they can cause a whole lot of damage to sensitive minds. Yeah, that mentality. It’s not surprialsing coming out of a liberal Canadian university before it reared its ugly head at Mizzou, where a professor demanded muscle to remove a student reporter from a public space they declared as their “safe space.” Total violation of free speech there too, but with one difference; that professor was shamed in the court of public opinion. In Canada? Crickets.

    [ O’REILLY: Now those kids were egged on by the University of Ottawa official who wrote a letter to Ann Coulter saying: “Canadian law puts reasonable limits on freedom of expression. For example, promoting hatred against identifiable group would not only be considered in appropriate, but could, in fact, lead to criminal charges.” ]

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/2.....anada.html

    So you see, there WAS a threat to throw her in jail; but I guess you missed that.

  219. 219
    kairosfocus says:

    KH:

    I left cutting electricity/lights, phone, cell phone, radio spectrum jamming and Internet cutoff in a terrorist attack location out as such are specific, highly local and temporary tactical decisions. (I add, more relevant to a SWAT raid or a siege than the buy ten minutes ten second response we are discussing.)

    But just think about why I suggested that defense points should consider IR scopes (or perhaps low light amplifying “night vision” scopes) for rifles. (And recall, I am suggesting 3 points so set out as to allow mutually supportive cross-fire and enfilade. But the first line of defence is access points and the second, corridors and the like.)

    In a specific locale, under particular situations, cutting off an opponent’s access to networks may be useful, but that is not sensible as a global measure.

    BTW, similarly, monitoring financial networks is useful, but a general cutoff is not.

    As we speak, there is a major global overhaul of banking regulation/oversight, operations, linked law and so on underway, targetting dangerous praxis that can trigger crises, money laundering, tax evasion [and too often mere avoidance too], and terrorism financing. The Basel Committee, IMF and World Bank as well as several other initiatives and agencies are involved. This is also one of the intended effects of the US Govt’s FATCA, which takes advantage of the US’ nodal role in networks to compel global compliance under threat of blacklisting. As a direct consequence in recent months, I have had to give FATCA information on ordinary accounts in banks on matters utterly unconnected to the USA.

    Unfortunately, one of the implications of the global terrorism threat and linked matters is that Big Brother is watching.

    And yes, we had better be concerned about what that implies or could open the way to.

    KF

    PS: I add, it is worth continually scanning the Internet for Islamist recruitment and radicalisation networks and then taking them down both online and in much the same way organised web fraud or zombie networks as well as malware sites are taken down. I have no problem with prosecution for sedition or the like on sound evidence. Perhaps you are unaware of Sheikh El Faisal, who for such fomentation was gaoled in the UK and deported to Jamaica. Which I believe is keeping a very wary eye on him. He has already got into international mischief and embarrassment for Jamaica, with an attempted trip to Africa that ended in detention and deporting to Jamaica. Which would be well advised to seize his passport.

  220. 220
    kairosfocus says:

    Brent and CY:

    It is interesting that objectors have been unable to address the focal topic, and particularly have had nothing to say regarding the islamist threat/agenda, or its roots in classical Islamic expansionism, founding documents and examples.

    That tells us volumes on what the major media, voices and educators have failed to tell us over the past 14 years since the 9/11 wakeup call. Obviously the unwelcome truth is not to the advantage of THEIR agendas.

    For instance, on the list of Ikhwan/Muslim Brotherhood front/penetrated groups in North America — MB being the mother of Islamist terrorism and author of the 100 year global conquest plan [I am adding a world conquest map I first saw on 9/11 to the OP as a post script, after I do this comment] — that appears in the 1991 explanatory memo, why are US officials seeking counsel from our civilisation’s enemies in addressing the problem?

    Here is the list, for reference:

    Islamic Society of North America (ISNA)

    ISNA Fiqh Committee (now known as the Fiqh Council of North America)

    ISNA Political Awareness Committee

    Muslim Youth of North America

    Muslim Students Association of the U.S. and Canada

    Association of Muslim Scientists and Engineers

    Islamic Medical Association (of North America)

    Islamic Teaching Center

    Malaysian Islamic Study Group

    Foundation for International Development

    North American Islamic Trust

    Islamic Centers Division

    American Trust Publications

    Audio-Visual Center

    Islamic Book Service

    Islamic Circle of North America

    Muslim Arab Youth Association

    Islamic Association for Palestine

    United Association for Studies and Research

    International Institute of Islamic Thought

    Muslim Communities Association

    Association of Muslim Social Scientists (of North America)

    Islamic Housing Cooperative

    Muslim Businessmen Association

    Islamic Education Department

    Occupied Land Fund (later known as the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development)

    Mercy International Association

    Baitul Mal Inc.

    Islamic Information Center (of America)

    Further to this, CAIR comes from the Hamas circle of support [Hamas being effectively the Palestinian branch of the MB], reportedly being founded in June 1994 by three former officers of the Islamic Association of Palestine (IAP)—Omar Ahmad (IAP President; became CAIR President), Nihad Awad (IAP PR Director; became CAIR Secretary & Treasurer), and Rafeeq Jaber (IAP Chicago Chapter President; became CAIR Vice President).

    It serves as a PR group and was of course one of the unindicted co-conspirators listed in the HLF trial.

    Some very serious questions need to be answered by responsible officials, especially given that Jihad includes strategic deception as a key component, including in jihad of tongue and pen.

    Ordinary Muslims and even those involved in terrorism have core human rights that should be respected, but respect is not the same as taking counsel of those who intend you no good.

    Given a history of front groups, penetration and subversion in context of doctrines of strategic deception embedded in founding teachings and examples, Muslim Organisations and consultants taken into serious planning or activities must be very carefully vetted indeed. And must forthrightly and soundly answer pointed questions and show by walk that they are not part of the problem.

    Given this problem, is it any wonder the US Govt for instance struggles to even name what it is up against?

    If the trumpet gives an uncertain sound, who will know to prepare for battle?

    KF

  221. 221
  222. 222
    kairosfocus says:

    Brent, so it looks like police no go jihadi infested enclaves are emerging in Britain, too. Shades of Londonistan and Birminghamistan. KF

    PS: Money shot clip from Express:

    Serving officers in terrorist hotspots including London and Birmingham said that forces are becoming increasingly nervy over the rising threat of Islamic State (ISIS) inspired attacks, with some telling staff not to wear their uniforms in their OWN patrol cars.

    One officer in London said the firebrand presidential hopeful was “pointing out something plainly obvious” whilst another in Lancashire said the police have to ask local Muslim leaders for PERMISSION before sending patrols into their communities.

    Their shocking testimonies are in stark contrast to the official responses from politicians and the Metropolitan Police, who have rounded on Mr Trump’s controversial claims . . . .

    One serving officer in west London said: “Islamification has and is occurring. You have to have extra vigilance in certain parts when you are working.”

    So, is it that the top level leaders don’t know what is going on on the streets, or are they trying to give false reassurance in the face of settlement jihad. If the former, they are incompetent; if the latter, that is worse than incompetence. In either case, serious change is necessary.

    I would say, policing surges are needed, and if they meet with attacks, escalate to a level where the Islamists get the firm message that they will be defeated and ordinary people will feel safe to point the finger to allow mopping up. Then, continued high level policing presence. Emergence of lawless enclaves under control of hostile powers is a very dangerous sign.

    PPS: What is happening in what is it, Dearborn Michigan?

  223. 223
    kairosfocus says:

    F/N: An observed/inferred strategic pattern of jihad by settlement that is worth pondering, whether or not one agrees with the underlying analysis:

    http://www.billionbibles.org/s.....nsion.html

    >>Spread of Islam

    The spread of Islam is not a new phenomenon. Ever since Muhammad’s troops spread out from Mecca in the 7th century, Islam has been expanding globally. But the spread of Islam in Western democracies is a new trend and one that is gaining momentum.

    This spread of Islam in Western nations is led by the Muslim Brotherhood and other international Islamic groups that endeavor to maximize the spread of Sharia law and Islam in the targeted nations while minimizing [–> and marginalising thus blocking] detection and push-back. This is achieved in five phases:

    Spread of IslamPhase 1: Arrival

    When the first Muslims arrive in a Western democracy, they keep a low profile and make few if any demands on the host nation. Many quietly work as students, business owners, professors, doctors and other professionals, making good first impressions and gaining vocational respect.

    Phase 2: Recognition

    When a sufficient number of Muslims gather, they request recognition of the Sharia law being applied within their own community. To preempt resistance and suspicions, they publicly condemn “radical” Islam and even seek well-publicized inter-faith dialogue and gatherings.

    They position Islam as a religion of peace whose Sharia law is not a threat to the host nation, especially since it would never be applied outside the Muslim community. Often, they are supported by the host nation’s un-informed leaders who are eager to be seen as “progressive”.

    Phase 3: Penetration

    When Muslims gain critical mass in a few cities, they begin to penetrate the host society. They create an alphabet soup of front and umbrella organizations that inflate their reach and unity, and use them to lobby the government, support (pro-)Muslim political candidates, conduct public relations campaigns and file lawsuits against alleged islamophobia, pressure public schools with Muslim students to hold prayers towards Mecca, endow Islamic studies departments at universities, place imams as ‘chaplains’ in armed forces and prison units.

    Sharia The Only SolutionPhase 4: Confrontation

    When Muslims become a significant minority in the host country, they demand incorporating into its legal system elements of the Sharia law. Often, this demand is made while “rogue” elements from the Muslim community threaten or engage in violence (e.g., Europe and UK).

    Phase 5: Imposition

    When the Muslim population becomes the majority and/or Islam gains control of a nation (e.g., Taliban in Afghanistan), Sharia law is imposed on the host society, which is then locked down against non-Islamic influences, including Christianity. The ideal Islamic state is Saudi Arabia, where Sharia law is the only law of the land and enforced without mercy.>>

    Food for thought. KF

  224. 224
    kairosfocus says:

    PS: Money shot clip from the MB North America board level strategic Explanatory Memo, 1991:

    “The process of settlement is a ‘Civilization-Jihadist Process’ with all the word means.[ –> on history, including war as part of the spread of Islam, in a broader context of agit prop etc] The Ikhwan [Muslim Brotherhood] must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and “sabotaging” its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God’s religion [= Islam] is made victorious over all other religions.”

    What was that about hugging a cobra to the breast, again?

  225. 225
    kairosfocus says:

    F/N2: Daniel Pipes on no go [for the police etc] zones: http://www.danielpipes.org/163.....-in-europe It seems in France there are some 750 such zones (I assume, highly specific as opposed to clustered). KF

  226. 226
    Brent says:

    It is an amazing plan. Practically a perfect plan. Political correctness will either be thrown out and the Muslim communities will be disbanded one way or another, or we’ll keep our political correctness and lose the whole society. I currently have little faith that the former is going to be done; our “elites” haven’t the stomach for it.

  227. 227
    kairosfocus says:

    Brent,

    I was not joking when I said serious thinkers are convinced Europe is headed for civil wars. If governments will not fight eventually the preyed upon will get smuggled in guns from the Balkans, make molotov cocktails and a down spiral into anarchy, warlordism and chaos will begin — again.

    As in, that is how the western roman empire collapsed under the weight of waves of invasion/immigration of fundamentally lawless tribes.

    For the British, you need to seriously reconsider that Poles may yet be your salvation.

    The sane alternative is to stamp down hard on the enclaves once it is clear what they mean.

    Surge policing.

    If that is defeated, it is time for fully loaded gendarmes (they have paratrooper units!) backed by who the Foreign Legion etc, or for the US the national guard, with 82nd Airborne or 101st Air Mobile or maybe 10th Mtn Div and Striker brigades backing them up and not hampered by a lawyer’s nest of red tape engagement rules either. (Reserve the Marines for the overseas cases given maritime warfare expertise, then as anchor points near trade choke points are secured, go beyond that into the nests of sponsoring states.)

    Then, restore civil authority with enhanced policing.

    And, very carefully filter refugees and immigrants from known source zones of the problem. (Note how in the US, with Christians targetted for genocide by IS, Christians are almost vanishingly small as a fraction of the refugees being taken in, a sign something is very fishy.)

    But you have to recognise that there is a problem. For precedent cf denazification of Germany.

    De islamofascisation is now on the table.

    Welcome to World War IV, already in progress as a 4th generation war on many fronts and in multiple battlespaces — including lawfare, societal subversion by settlement jihad, shadowy agents of influence in high places, strategic deception, disinformation and agit prop, cyberspace etc — and now at nuke threshold.

    Notice, ever so many people don’t even realise a global struggle is in progress, much less what agendas we face at the hands of the Islamists.

    That is no accident.

    KF

    PS: That is also staring you in the face for Syria-Iraq-Lebanon and Libya. Bombing will not do it. The Egyptians need some help too.

    PPS: Islamofascism is a coinage by the moderate muslims of Algeria who felt the lash of current Islamism long ago and had to put it down hard. It hardly needs stressing that the modern Algerian state grew out of the colony established by France in the broad context of suppressing the Barbary coast pirates nests after centuries of depredations and extortion.

  228. 228
    Pro Hac Vice says:

    CannuckianYankee,

    In Alberta you can be sanctionrd as a lawyer for “criticizing a court or tribunal.

    FYI, that’s true in the United States as well.

  229. 229

    PHV

    True enough, but what happens to lawyers in the US who criticize seems far more appealable than in Canada.

    http://apublicdefender.com/201.....of-judges/

    Ezra Levant has given up practicing law.

    About the tribunal that he criticized:

    This is the same, which 10 years ago tried him for publishing the Danish Mohammed cartoons; a decision he felt was “newsworthy.” A Muslim Imam in Edmonton took offense and complained to the Alberta Human Rights Commission, and Levant was dragged before the tribunal.

    The woman who led the tribunal at the time had never been a practicing lawyer, and she had been appointed to that seat by a govt. Official; not elected. I don’t know if laws have changed following Levant’s 3 year challenge (at his own expense) and exoneration, but it’s the same, or similar body he criticized, and for which he was sanctioned, losing his career. So in Canada, there does seem to be a “judges are king” mentality, more so than in the US, where the above linked case is apparently still in appeal. The guy mentioned allegedly slandered the judge, so I think it’s a little more than mere criticism. But of course, these things vary depending on jurisdiction.

    My main point is that Canada has shifted so far to the left as to have rendered free speech totally secondary to a right not to be offended; something that is currently shufting that way in the US, but hasn’t arrived yet; and the forces and systems put in place here to prevent that shift from finalizing seem to be much more resilient.

  230. 230
    Kenneth Hughs says:

    CY: “In Alberta you can be sanctionrd as a lawyer for “criticizing a court or tribunal.”

    Yes, you can be sanctioned by the law society that you voluntarily join, and for which you have a say in what they deem to be sanctionable. All you have demonstrated is that Ezra does not comply with the code of conduct and code of ethics that he swore to follow. That speaks volumes about the man’s ethics.

    [ O’REILLY: Now those kids were egged on by the University of Ottawa official who wrote a letter to Ann Coulter saying: “Canadian law puts reasonable limits on freedom of expression. For example, promoting hatred against identifiable group would not only be considered in appropriate, but could, in fact, lead to criminal charges.]

    So you see, there WAS a threat to throw her in jail; but I guess you missed that.

    If by threat you mean informing someone about the consequences of breaking the law, then yes, it was a threat. So, if I tell you that stealing a car could lead to criminal charges, I am threatening you? I just want to understand your definition of what a threat is. Silly me, I had always thought that things like this were warnings.

    But I am confused. Was Coulter planning to promote hatred against an identifiable group?

    Coulter used the incident to play the martyr card. Unfortunately the facts do not support her claims. At no time was she prevented from speaking. She simply refused to speak because the University wanted to change the venue to a larger one. In short, she broke a contract she had with the Organizers to give a speech. And, incidentally, refused to reimburse the organizers for an advance that she was paid. Another example of ethics.

  231. 231
    kairosfocus says:

    H’mm: I notice, the continued tangents, with almost studious avoidance of the focal (but obviously unpleasant) issue on the table. KF

  232. 232

    KF,

    Coulter was threatened before she entered Canada, and for her reputatiin for questioning political correctness. Canada enforces pilitical correctness, not just in the court of public opunion,but in the courts of law; that is my point. Again; free speech is dead in Canada

  233. 233
    kairosfocus says:

    Folks

    Let’s clip from that explanatory memo from the North America Board to the head body in Egypt. Recall, the Muslim Brotherhood is the first modern Islamist Terrorist group and has composed a 100 year global subjugation plan. This is in effect how the North American wing and its fronts (clearly now including CAIR) intend to carry forward this plan:

    https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Explanatory_Memoradum.pdf

    >>The general strategic goal of the Group in America which was ap-proved by the Shura Council and the Organizational Conference for the year [1987] is “Enablement of Islam in North America, meaning:

    establishing an effective and a stable Islamic Movement led by the Muslim Brotherhood which adopts Muslims’ causes domestically and globally, and which works to expand the observant Muslim base, aims
    at unifying and directing Muslims’ efforts, presents Islam as a civiliza-tion alternative, and supports the global Islamic State wherever it is”.

    2. The priority that is approved by the Shura Council for the work of the Group in its current and former session which is “Settlement” . . . .

    In order for Islam and its Movement to become “a part of the homeland” in which it lives, “stable” in its land, “rooted” in the spir-its and minds of its people, “enabled” in the live of its society and has firmly-established “organizations” on which the Islamic structure is built and with which the testimony of civilization [–> thus creation of an alien and fundamentally hostile culture based on enclaves] is achieved, the Movement must plan and struggle to obtain “the keys” and the tools of this process in carry out this grand mission as a “Civilization Jihadist” responsibility which lies on the shoulders of Muslims and – on top of them – the Muslim Brotherhood in this country . . . .

    The process of settlement is a “Civilization-Jihadist Process” with all the word means. The Ikhwan must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and “sabotaging” its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God’s religion is made victorious over all other religions. Without this level of understanding, we are not up to this challenge and have not prepared ourselves for Jihad yet. It is a Muslim’s destiny to per-form Jihad and work wherever he is and wherever he lands until the final hour comes, and there is no escape from that destiny except for those who chose to slack. [–> notice this term] But, would the slackers and the Mujahedeen [–> the name commonly used for Islamist combatants] be equal. >>

    It could not be plainer as to what the intent is.

    KF

  234. 234
    Kenneth Hughs says:

    KF @219: “I left cutting electricity/lights, phone, cell phone, radio spectrum jamming and Internet cutoff in a terrorist attack location out as such are specific, highly local and temporary tactical decisions.”

    But if you are serious about reducing the effectiveness of the jihad, you have to do what every military commander in history has known: disrupt communication.

    It is well known that ISIS and others make great use of the Internet. In fact the last terrorist acts in both Canada and the US were the result of radicalization of a local through the Internet. So why are you hesitant to remove this tool? It shouldn’t be done as a reaction to an act, on aocal level, it should be done proactively.

  235. 235
    kairosfocus says:

    KH Your attempted reductio makes as much sense as would general shutting down electricity, phone or sales of acetone, hydrogen peroxide and muriatic acid or diesel fuel and ammonium nitrate fertiliser or gasoline or whatever because terrs can use them. Rhetorical fail. KF

  236. 236
    Kenneth Hughs says:

    KF: “KH Your attempted reductio makes as much sense as would general shutting down electricity, phone or sales of acetone, hydrogen peroxide and muriatic acid or diesel fuel and ammonium nitrate fertiliser or gasoline or whatever because terrs can use them. Rhetorical fail. KF”

    But more sense than your list at 185. You are obviously willing to give up many of your freedoms to achieve a false perception of security, but not willing to give up a service that we know will have a negative impact on terrorism.

    We survived quite comfortably in the 80s, before the Internet had any significant proliferation. If this jihad is as serious as you say, shouldn’t we also take this step?

    Obviously, I am using an absurdity to point out how absurd your reccomendations are. But, enacting the nonsense that you suggest is nothing more than walling ourselves off and labelling any outsider as a serious threat. Frankly, I am not prepared to live that way. Obviously you are. But please, restrict those actions to your little island. The rest of us are not interested.

  237. 237
    kairosfocus says:

    KH, projection of a strawman caricature that utterly distorts target hardening. Maybe you need to learn about parts of the world where a first issue is blocking suicide bombers. I suggest you ponder what went down at Bataclan. Rhetorical fail again, showing fundamental lack of seriousness. KF

  238. 238
    Kenneth Hughs says:

    KF: “KH, projection of a strawman caricature. Rhetorical fail again, showing fundamental lack of seriousness. KF”

    Get over yourself KF. I am dead serious. But are you capable of responding to my criticism without resorting to your typical “Strawman caricatures soaked in oil of red herrings, steeped in ad hominem” nonsense.

    How is your list at 185 a defense against the jihad? You just described a society in which I do not want to belong. From the complete lack of support in this thread, I suspect that nobody supports it.

  239. 239
    kairosfocus says:

    KH, we both know that soft targets are a terrorist magnet. That is the context in which I discussed target hardening; a tactical defensive response, not the strategic moves that would break the Jihad agenda. That is for other times and places. Let me add: voluntary civilian marshals upgrading say security at Amazon in SB as was described above . . . and that is a society in which you do not wish to live? Contrast Garland TX with the site in SB and the casualty totals and types: scratch two Jihadis in the parking lot, vs 14 dead and 21 wounded. Rhetorical fail, again. I suspect, it is much easier for you to try to dismiss than to face what the Jihadists have in mind. In the latest round of the 1400 year war. Now at nuke threshold, and with settlement jihad already in rapid progress. KF

    PS: distract, distort, denigrate to confuse and polarise is a far too common abusive rhetorical pattern on the Internet that needs to change. That you try to brush it aside as nonsense speaks volumes.

  240. 240
    Kenneth Hughs says:

    You mention the term “soft target”, but don’t define it. What are they? Schools? Malls? Restaurants? Hotels? Banks? Resorts? Stadiums? Subdivisions? Highways? Bars? Clubs? Legion halls? Parades? Funerals? Theatres? Bus stations? Subway stops? Parks? Bah mitzvahs? Birthday parties? Weddings? Graduations? Etc.

    From what I can see, these all fall into your category of “soft targets”. And you propose making armed camps of all of this. Are you so thick that you have not seen the similarity between what you are proposing and Nazi occupation? Obviously not.

  241. 241
    kairosfocus says:

    Garland TX: http://edition.cnn.com/2015/05.....ting-hero/ 15 secs in a parking lot, 1 pistol in well trained hands of an off duty traffic cop vs two armed and armoured terrs. The points of comparison beg to be drawn out.

  242. 242
    Kenneth Hughs says:

    KF: “15 secs in a parking lot, 1 pistol in well trained hands of an off duty traffic cop vs two armed and armoured terrs. The points of comparison beg to be drawn out.”

    No they don’t. Nobody is arguing that our police should not receive the best training. You are suggesting that we should turn our “soft targets”, which includes everything, into armed camps with defensive positions and man-traps.

  243. 243

    “You mention the term “soft target”, but don’t define it. What are they? Schools? Malls? Restaurants? Hotels? Banks? Resorts? Stadiums? Subdivisions? Highways? Bars? Clubs? Legion halls? Parades? Funerals? Theatres? Bus stations? Subway stops? Parks? Bah mitzvahs? Birthday parties? Weddings? Graduations? Etc.”

    Yes.

  244. 244
    kairosfocus says:

    PS: Wiki on Garland:

    At the time of the attack, the “First Annual Muhammad Art Exhibit and Contest” exhibit was attended by approximately 150 people,[1] although the number was initially estimated at 200.[25]

    The organizers of the event had paid over $10,000 to a total of forty off-duty police officers and private security guards.[4] The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), a SWAT team, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), and the Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS) were also brought in for the occasion of any possible incidents.[1][26] At the time, there was reportedly “no immediate credible threat” of an attack.[25]

    Prior to the attack, ISIS had urged followers and sympathizers who were unable to join the fighting in the Syrian Civil War to carry out jihad in their home countries.[7][27] Approximately three hours prior to the start of the contest, the FBI had alerted the Garland Police Department that a suspected extremist, identified as gunman Elton Simpson, was “interested in the event” and could show up there. However, FBI officials later clarified they had no reason to believe an actual attack would occur at the contest.[28][29][30] Officers later stated that they were not aware of the alert.[1][31] . . . .

    Just before the event was set to end at around 7:00 p.m.,[25] two men wearing body armor and equipped with three assault rifles, three handguns, and hundreds of rounds of ammunition drove up to a police car that was parked next to a barricade erected in front of the center. Seated inside the police car were a Garland traffic police officer and an unarmed Garland ISD security guard. The two gunmen got out of their vehicle and fired dozens of rounds at the police car, shooting the Garland ISD security guard. The men were then shot and killed by the unidentified traffic police officer[13][24] using his duty .45-caliber Glock pistol.[1][4][40][41][42][43] The Garland ISD officer, identified as 58-year-old Bruce Joiner, was shot in the ankle.[4][44] He was treated at a local hospital and confirmed to be released at 9:00 p.m.[42][45]

    In short, target hardening demonstrably works. Entrance barrier check. Armed guard with training, check. Soft car X. Straight shooting, check.

    Though this seems to have been overkill and I think the event was needless. No, I do not endorse Ms Geller, though I will note sometimes she ferrets out useful finds. On the whole Drudge is a better bet.

    PPS: Come better than, oh the Nazis occupied next time. So did the Allies after WW II, and they denazified as part of that occupation — with notable success. That is a model to start from. Note sequence with a police no go zone: surge policing, if that fails, respond as to localised insurrection then return to civil policing. In Jamaica after that was done with one Garrison community, area leaders from other zones came in meek as lambs on hearing the police were looking for them. And that’s just the local defence force with maybe some US Marines backing over the horizon.

  245. 245
  246. 246
    Kenneth Hughs says:

    CY, to make sure that we are talking about the same thing, here is the [snip] that KF is proposing for “soft targets”

    “1: Control access, and monitor it — preferably vid feed that can be patched through to SWAT support.

    2: The gate should be barred, and there should be security control, with sufficient fencing or walls.

    3: Parking lots should be monitored with access for security points in sufficient cross-fire to provide enfilade.

    4: Building access and corridors as well as entrances to bathrooms, stairs, elevators etc should be monitored and there should be ways to block and/or defend access.

    5: Large halls should be access controlled with defensive points. There should be several emergency exits so rapid evacuation can be done.

    6: Multiple, overlapping monitoring, linked to police or contract security.

    7: Halls should have at least three defensive points in mutual support so that cross fire and enfilade can be implemented.

    8: Marshals should be able to rapidly and securely access such points, with prepositioned weapons. Such marshalls should have high capacity 9 mm weapons, or even PDW upgrades on or next to them at all times on duty. And of course, beepers that can alert them to patch into the defense network. Personal alarm buttons too that will call in the network.

    9: I suggest the prepositioned points should have 6.5 or 6.8 mm semiauto weapons with low mag scopes and also IR scopes in some cases. Such exist, on AR15 type frames. (Back in the 60s the 6.5 or 6.8 mm should have been settled on not 5.56, for many reasons. The long range shootings problem in Afghanistan is just one sign. I also suggest consideration of bullpup configuration weapons. A version on the Tavor TAR 21 looks like a useful place to go to.)

    10: AP rounds should be available. And of course body armour.

    11: The intent is to contain, channel and block the razzia, buying time until reinforcements come in.

    12: Metal reinforced zip ties should be available in quantity.

    13: So should trauma kits, and it would help to have trained medics to military standard.

    14: Secure wireless comms with a command centre and an alternate.

    15: Big enough facilities should have roof helipads, as access points for SWAT support.

    16: Ditto for secure tunnels, which can also serve as exits for VIPs liable to be taken hostage.

    17: Hospital hotlines, and of course aid posts with stretchers. I assume medevac helicopters will be within Golden Hour reach, with designated mass casualty trauma centres.

    18: Zones at major risk should have air defence zones, tied to national networks. The NY Financial District and Washington DC are obvious cases in point.

    Doubtless more.”

    Let me put this in perspective. My daughter got married in September. Financially, it was a burden. But well worth it. How much more do you think it would have cost me to implement KF’s [snip]?

  247. 247
    kairosfocus says:

    KH: Garland was overkill. KF

    PS: Perhaps you have missed the cases of churches and schools etc attacked with grenades, guns and more. I obviously gave a fairly full bore case. For cases that are reasonably low threat, a duly lower level response is apt. Notice the onward higher yet case of needing air defence. Clearly a sliding scale is implied. Let me clip the linked:

    A NATION CHALLENGED: ISLAMABAD; 2 Americans Killed in Attack on Pakistan Church
    By RAYMOND BONNER
    [NYT] Published: March 18, 2002

    ISLAMABAD, Pakistan, March 17— Two men walked into a Protestant church close to the American Embassy this morning, in one of the most guarded areas in one of the most secure cities in Pakistan, and threw several grenades. Five people were killed, including an embassy employee and her daughter, a high school senior.

    At least 40 people were wounded, many critically, most of them foreigners.

    The blasts sundered bodies of worshipers and sent blood flying across the simple hall where the worshipers were listening to the sermon, having just finished singing ”This Is Holy Ground.” After the outburst, a man’s black loafer lay by the long table where white coffee cups were arranged for the post-service congregants.

    The attack targeted the Protestant International Church, a nondenominational church in the diplomatic enclave here, 400 yards from the sprawling embassy compound, where glistening razor-wire coils along the top of brick walls. Life had been returning to normal at the embassy, with relatives of the diplomats only recently having come back after being sent home after Sept. 11.

    The attack appeared to be directly aimed at the Americans and at the government of President Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan. Both reacted vehemently today. In Washington, President Bush said in a statement, that he was outraged, and that the deaths were ”acts of murder that cannot be tolerated by any person of conscience.” President Musharraf called the attack a ”ghastly act of terrorism.”

    Another case, Kaduna Nigeria:

    Baptists bury dead, look to future after seminary attack in Nigeria
    Friday, August 23, 2002 | Worthy News / Christian, Nigeria

    By Mark Kelly

    KADUNA, Nigeria (BP)–Baptists in Nigeria are sifting through the ashes and counting the cost after the Baptist seminary in Kaduna was attacked during riots in late February.

    Eleven people — including two students and a retired maintenance man — were killed when a mob overran the campus Feb. 22. Another student had been killed in town the day before.

    The cost of replacing buildings burned during the assault may run as high as $5.3 million, reported Uche Enyioha, president of the seminary. And that doesn’t include the cost of replacing school furnishings, personal belongings and library books, which had just reached the 10,000 level required for accreditation.

    But the destruction of buildings and even the loss of life will not stop the growth of God’s kingdom in Nigeria, Baptist workers say.

    Rioters killed 21 members of one Baptist church and burned 17 Baptist church buildings and 13 pastors’ homes, reported Southern Baptist missionary Don Copeland. Another six church buildings only were looted, apparently because they were located too close to Muslim homes to be burned.

    Four days of clashes between Muslims and Christians in the northern Nigeria city broke out Feb. 20 as Christians protested Muslim activist appeals to institute Islamic criminal law in Kaduna state. Hundreds of people were killed. Mosques, churches and businesses were burned. Hundreds of vehicles were destroyed or damaged.

    Nigeria’s president, Olusegun Obasanjo, a southern Christian, condemned the violence, which quickly spread to the southeastern town of Aba, where Muslim traders were killed by Christians in revenge for the Kaduna attacks.

    Within days, leaders of Muslim northern states agreed not to pursue strict “Sharia” law in order to preserve peace. Newspapers in the country speculated the violence actually was inspired by northern politicians ousted in the elections that brought Obasanjo to power.

    Emeritus Nigeria missionary Payton Myers had traveled to Nigeria to help repair a single men’s dormitory on the Kaduna seminary campus. He was unable to reach the campus Feb. 21 because of the rioting.

    After the violence subsided, Myers bought corn, cassava and other foodstuffs and took them to the Kaduna air force base, where both Muslims and Christians had taken refuge from the fighting.

    He watched as the people killed at the seminary were buried in a mass grave in a nearby cemetery — where the battle for the seminary had raged two days earlier.

    “These people are witnesses that there is more to life than simply escaping death,” Myers said. “I’m very grateful for being able to have a little part to play in helping meet some of the needs of the people at this time.”

    Southern Baptist missionary physician Dale Gray helped care for the wounded at the air force base, and chaplains there ministered to people’s needs as well, Copeland said. Nigerian Baptist churches and their national convention have provided disaster relief assistance to victims of the rioting . . .

    Notice how the soft target is picked.

    PPS: You are again warned on language.

  248. 248
    daveS says:

    KF,

    I used to attend a fairly large church [Edit: in the US], with attendance in the range of several hundred per service. It was in a medium-sized town, 100,000+ in population.

    Would you implement your security measures 8, 9, and 10 (posted above) in such a situation? I’m referring specifically to positioning semiautomatic weapons in the church for quick access.

  249. 249

    Update: FBI looking at something dumped in Seccombe Lake, and have a dive team there. They say it will take some weeks of investigation there. Seccombe Lake Park is the largest city park in San Bernardino. It has been let go as a result of the city’s bankruptcy, and is now a home to the homeless, who pitch their tents there, and apparently have a shower available to them in the park. The lake itself is heavily polluted, and the bird population is out of control. What they expect to find there, I have no idea; perhaps more weapons?

    http://www.pe.com/articles/sho.....e-law.html

    http://www.pe.com/articles/fbi.....eking.html

    https://youtu.be/veEomvitb7M?list=PLgfUUbVoYe1iz277seYdvwSKdrWnzCI_c

    A boyhood friend of Farook, who checked himself into a mental health facility the day of the attack, may be charged. Supplied assault rifle. Also apparently planned a similar attack with Farook in 2012, but they were spooked by terror arrests in the area at the time.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015.....tcmp=hpbt1

    Also, Farook tied to local Jihadist recruiter (Pomona, California, which is 30-40 miles West, in Los Angeles County). Local connections seem to be surfacing.

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/10/.....index.html

    And…….Trump wants to close the internet?

    http://money.cnn.com/2015/12/0.....=obnetwork

  250. 250
    kairosfocus says:

    DS, I suspect a couple of armed volunteers in the parking lot and one or two more in the congregation, off duty cops or ex mil personnel with concealed carry permits and 9 mm pistols (which are semiauto) would be enough unless there were special factors. Wireless network keyed to the church’s electronics room and onward to the police. By contrast, Bataclan was a Jewish owned theatre that had often been targetted for demonstrations [though it seems it had been recently sold], The band had recently played in Israel. Charlie Hebdo was criminally under protected — contrast FRC in the US where one guard was enough to stop an attack, though that was a one man stunt — and the Deli should have been guarded. The suicide bombers blew themselves outside the stadium because of protection starting with entrances; but then the French Pres was inside and wasn’t there a German official too. For the cafes it looks like the old fashioned shotgun under the counter or modern equivalent would have made a difference. I suspect the SB parking lot and hall could have been better defended, in fact why wasn’t there a proper protection? I gather the site was less defended than ordinary govt facilities and that may have played a role in targetting. KF

  251. 251

    KH,

    “How much more do you think it would have cost me to implement KF’s [snip]?”

    I have no idea. How valuable is keeping people safe and secure at one of life’s most important events?

    I think KF is illustrating what CAN be done, not necessarily everything that MUST be done. Each situation and location is different, and certainly affordability and feasibility are issues.

    I think we are going to see a revamping of security in a lot of locations. I was at a federal Social Security office just this past week. I’d been in there many times before, but this time was different; in the wake of the shootings. They have always had armed security officers at the door, but something new was seeing security scanners, which everyone entering must pass through.

    The feds take potential threats very seriously. We should too.

  252. 252
    kairosfocus says:

    CY, good updates. KF

    PS: Protection is scaled to threat, and we need to realise that increasingly the 1400 year war is coming to us. Look, when bank money moves here MP5s and shotguns come out, I doubt there has ever been a bank robbery here. In Ja, the Brinks van moves that sort of money.

    PPS: Looks like the Feds think members of that cell are still on the loose.

    PPPS: I was reminded today 20,000+ MANPADS are missing from a warehouse in Libya. Think, a cluster of co-ordinated shoot-downs and attacks at airports across North America and Europe in say a 5 – 15 minute window one late afternoon in Europe ranging to morning in California. Of course, network chatter would point to such and hopefully that can be averted. That is a regional level challenge.

  253. 253

    KH,

    Also, consider: Farook was a county employee. He did not work where the shooting occurred, at IRC, but at another location, probably with heavy security. I already made this point above @ 16.

    IRC is a quasi-government agency that is not required to be as secure as government agencies. This may be the reason why Farook chose to shoot up his co-workers there, rather than at the more heavily secured building where he and they worked. But it could also be that he just wanted them to be all together in one location.

    But IRC definitely fits the “soft target” description, while where he worked might not. Some county buildings are more secure than others.

    I think the presence of armed guards stationed outside a building is a deterrent to potential acts of armed violence. Terrorists are going to look for targets that are vulnerable, unprotected by armed security, easily accessible, and easy to leave quickly. IRC fits all of those. Farook had been at that same facility for the same event held last year. He knew about its vulnerabilities.

    So potential soft targets can do much to dispel the perception that they are vulnerable, and while it’s going to get expensive, it doesn’t have to be formidably so. Perception is everything.

  254. 254

    KF,

    “Looks like the Feds think members of that cell are still on the loose.”

    Yes; I would say so.

  255. 255
    Kenneth Hughs says:

    KF: “PPS: You are again warned on language.”

    Of course I am. You propose a level of government oversight that even Orwell would thing unthinkable and you take offence at my use of the common term for fecal matter.

    But I have noticed that you have avoided my questions. “Sliding scale” is not an answer.

    Let’s use my daughter’s wedding as an example. What do you think the reasonable precautions should have been?

  256. 256
    kairosfocus says:

    KH, avoiding foul language is a matter of common decency. KF

    PS: If you cannot judge appropriate language, it is a sign that you likely cannot judge appropriate response to issues of greater moment. Enough, with anchor cases, has been said for the reasonable person.

  257. 257
    Kenneth Hughs says:

    KF: “KH, avoiding foul language is a matter of common decency. KF

    PS: If you cannot judge appropriate language, it is a sign that you likely cannot judge appropriate response to issues of greater moment.”

    Translation: “I can’t answer the question so I will just insult the questioner”

    Get off your pulpit and simply answer the question. What would have been the appropriate security for my daughter’s wedding? I will give you a little more background. It took place when Canada was actively bombing ISIS targets, and Canada had been actively named by ISIS as a legitimate target.

    You can answer the question or you can continue to avoid it. Your choice.

  258. 258
    kairosfocus says:

    KH, you confirmed the problem. As a simple suggestion, scroll up and look at CY’s response to DS and mine also, esp on a church service. Then scale up to the discussion of a range of real world cases. G’night. KF

  259. 259
    Kenneth Hughs says:

    KF: “KH, you confirmed the problem. As a simple suggestion, scroll up and look at CY’s response to DS and mine also, esp on a church service. Then scale up to the discussion of a range of real world cases. G’night. KF”

    So, you are avoiding the question. Good to know. But the question still stands. What security measures would have been warranted for my daughter’s wedding? Keep in mind, there have been attacks at weddings.

    Please answer or admit that you are just fear mongering.

    Or ban me. Which appears to be your favoured approach.

  260. 260
    kairosfocus says:

    KH, You have already had an adequate answer, just scroll up as indicated, 248 ff should be more than good enough — you were around when they were put up, your oh there is no answer is transparently false. Contrast Garland and SB or Bataclan and Charlie Hebdo to get an idea tied to specific real cases, also mix in what happened to the International Church in Pakistan (which is the case that got my attention). Calibrate the threat, scale response to threat; the first one or two incidents in a relevant region will surprise, doubtless, thereafter find the point where you can live with on the scale. Don’t overlook suicide belts and hostage takers — think Beslan. Ponder the Boston Marathon bombing. The sidetrack, distract and denigrate game is a rhetorical fail . . . the very error you tried to dismiss above. And, if you think Jihadism is not a serious problem, that just means you are in denial of readily accessible evidence including from orignal captured sources, so I just say the next several years will instruct you otherwise. Good night. KF

  261. 261
    kairosfocus says:

    F/N: Liberty University hardens itself as a target zone:

    http://www.newsmax.com/TheWire.....id/705248/

    KF

  262. 262
    kairosfocus says:

    F/N2: Atlantic Monthly on ISIS:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/mag.....ts/384980/

    >>ISIS, by contrast [with Wahhabism], is really reliving the early period.” Early Muslims were surrounded by non-Muslims, and the Islamic State, because of its takfiri [–> declaring other muslims apostates and liable to death] tendencies, considers itself to be in the same situation.

    If al-Qaeda wanted to revive slavery, it never said so. And why would it?

    Silence on slavery probably reflected strategic thinking, with public sympathies in mind: when the Islamic State began enslaving people, even some of its supporters balked.

    Nonetheless, the caliphate has continued to embrace slavery and crucifixion without apology. “We will conquer your Rome, break your crosses [–> an islamic eschatological theme], and enslave your women,” Adnani, the spokesman, promised in one of his periodic valentines to the West. “If we do not reach that time, then our children and grandchildren will reach it, and they will sell your sons as slaves at the slave market.” [–> note the 100 yr frame of thought]

    In October [2014], Dabiq, the magazine of the Islamic State, published “The Revival of Slavery Before the Hour,” an article that took up the question of whether Yazidis (the members of an ancient Kurdish sect that borrows elements of Islam, and had come under attack from Islamic State forces in northern Iraq) are lapsed Muslims, and therefore marked for death, or merely pagans and therefore fair game for enslavement. A study group of Islamic State scholars had convened, on government orders, to resolve this issue. If they are pagans, the article’s anonymous author wrote,

    Yazidi women and children [are to be] divided according to the Shariah amongst the fighters of the Islamic State who participated in the Sinjar operations [in northern Iraq] … Enslaving the families of the kuffar [infidels] and taking their women as concubines is a firmly established aspect of the Shariah that if one were to deny or mock, he would be denying or mocking the verses of the Koran and the narrations of the Prophet … and thereby apostatizing from Islam. [–> got that, restoring enslavement of captives on pain of being deemed apostates liable to death. Where the evidence is of Yazidi women being sold as sex slaves for as little as US$10, with much higher prices reserved for young girls. After all Mohammed the idealised exemplar and yardstick set the example with Aisha, formally wedded at 6, taken literally from her dolls to his bed chamber at 9.]

    . . . . Baghdadi spoke at length of the importance of the caliphate in his Mosul sermon. He said that to revive the institution of the caliphate—which had not functioned except in name for about 1,000 years—was a communal obligation. He and his loyalists had “hastened to declare the caliphate and place an imam” at its head, he said.

    “This is a duty upon the Muslims—a duty that has been lost for centuries … The Muslims sin by losing it, and they must always seek to establish it.” Like bin Laden before him, Baghdadi spoke floridly, with frequent scriptural allusion and command of classical rhetoric. Unlike bin Laden, and unlike those false caliphs of the Ottoman empire, he is Qurayshi. [–> connected to the Islamic eschatology of the Mahdi, the last, world conquering caliph]

    The caliphate, Cerantonio [–> it seems, a convert from Australia who tried to join the IS] told me, is not just a political entity but also a vehicle for salvation. Islamic State propaganda regularly reports the pledges of baya’a (allegiance) rolling in from jihadist groups across the Muslim world. Cerantonio quoted a Prophetic saying, that to die without pledging allegiance is to die jahil (ignorant) and therefore die a “death of disbelief.”>>

    We have to get it through our heads that these people are in deadly earnest.

    Mass slaughter, global subjugation, enslavement, crucifixion and all.

    KF

  263. 263
  264. 264
    Kenneth Hughs says:

    KF: “Calibrate the threat, scale response to threat;”

    Nobody is arguing about reasonable security at the obvious targets. But the problem is that these people simply shift their targets.

    Again, what is reasonable security at a large wedding? I will make it easier for you. The wedding is between a Jew and a Gentile.

    Metal detectors? An armed guard? Controlled entry? Machine gun nest?

    Nobody is downplaying the threats but if you want to defeat them, stop overreacting to them and put your money and efforts towards resolving the causes of the far more numerous unexpected deaths. Most of the mass murders in North America, and the vast majority of other gun murders are not caused by Islamic terrorists. You are prepared to spend billions to try to prevent a relatively small number of deaths (and it will be ultimately unsuccessful), yet not willing to spend any money to address gun violence in general.

    We use this approach in medicine. We spend countless millions of dollars to research the cause of and treatment for the most common diseases. And very little on extremely rare, yet fatal diseases. Why not take the same approach with violence?

  265. 265
    kairosfocus says:

    KH, You came in on a discussion about a widespread, voluntary civilian marshals scheme as a way to harden the targets across the targetted society. In a context where 10 second response times are needed when police SWAT teams are liable to be 10 – 30+ minutes out. And, you seem to forget the part about the 1400 years war heating back up (= World War IV, already in progress since 1979 courtesy the Carter fiasco over Iran . . . ), as in you may not be interested in the war and want to get back to likely the cultural marxist – progressivist, radically secularist evolutionary materialist scientism agenda and its fellow travellers, but this is a situation where the war is interested in you and is in fact now at nuclear threshold. (That Iran nuke deal with was it US$ 150 billions and linked attempt to hand hegemony of the Gulf-Levant region over to the Mahdist Mullahs is of such utter short-sighted folly as cannot be put in words — other than, Persian Empire reborn under ideologically insane management.) So, I suggest you go back and acquaint yourself with the matter. KF

  266. 266
    Jack Jones says:

    The left have lost the argument, All they can do is scream “racism” But not only is Islam not a race, but it is a threat to people of all races.

  267. 267
    Brent says:

    KH @ 264,

    For the terrorist, ALL is fair. Lying, being nice, being mean, it doesn’t matter. Gun control, for instance, isn’t going to stop them. They’ll use knives and homemade bombs.

    All the while, because you and others see the problem as easy access to firearms, whether the carnage is at the hands of a jihadi or lone wolf freak, those who would use firearms responsibly (and the overwhelming majority would) to protect themselves, from either or any type of aggressor, are up [snip] creek.

    What is clear is that, for you, you see gun control as able to solve both issues; terrorism and mass murder events. You are simply wrong to think it will curb terrorism. You’re almost entirely wrong to think it will stop the lone wolf mass murderers as well. But you’ll have done a fine job of disarming the law abiding citizens — who unfortunately will be the ones most in need of a gun when the non law abiding citizens show up with theirs.

    Stop equating Islamic terrorism with one off, wakaloon psychos who can’t be predicted. It’s completely random. You are only interested in an excuse to advocate gun control and seem to see that as addressing both issues.

    And KF’s answer of “sliding scale” is both obvious and correct. I’m sure there are countless thousands of entrepreneurs who’d be interested in starting up private rent-a-arms companies to protect small scale events that would make it fiscally practical for weddings like the one you speak of, as well as larger and smaller. Terrorists will always be drawn to softer targets. After all, being killed before you can half empty a magazine does not make good news for the home team if you’re a terrorist.

  268. 268
    Jack Jones says:

    @KF

    You can’t reason with Kenneth, he has been brainwashed by leftist teachers and the leftist media. The problem is not just the threat from Islamists but also their pathetic apologists and enablers like Kenneth who are supporting the threat to our countries to take place.

  269. 269
    Kenneth Hughs says:

    I try to have a reasonable discussion and people’s only rebuttal is that I am a “leftist enabler”. KF honestly presented his idea of civilian marshals and I disagreed with him, providing my reasons.

    Yes, terrorism is terrible. But overreacting to it just plays into their hands. Do you really think that civilian Marshals will stop, or even reduce, terrorism? No. They will just attack targets that can’t afford the added security. You reduce terrorism, and other forms of violence, by attacking the root cause, not just by making it more difficult for them. And one if the root causes (not the only one) is the easy access to guns. Why are people so afraid to talk about it?

  270. 270
    Brent says:

    And one if the root causes (not the only one) is the easy access to guns.

    Access to guns CAUSES violence? Is this an attempt at comedy?

    I’ll add that it’s pretty rich of you to say that no one has engaged your (silly) ideas of gun control. I have repeatedly with nary a response. I find that fairly ironic since you have been bent out of shape at KF for supposedly doing the same.

  271. 271
    kairosfocus says:

    KH,

    did you monitor the Paris attacks of Nov 13?

    Did you observe that in France, ordinary civilians have been effectively disarmed?

    Under confiscatory gun laws?

    Did that prevent the Jihadis from acquiring a set of AK47 full auto rifles and abundant ammunition?

    NO

    (The smuggling routes are there.)

    Did laws against explosives and restricting access to Nitrates block the terrorists from making explosives for suicide belts — which seem to have done most of the killing at Bataclan?

    NO

    (Acetone, Hydrogen Peroxide and Muriatic acid are effectively beyond banning; and though quite dangerous, the process to make a deadly high explosive from such TATP, is a matter of kitchen chemistry. Don’t even bother about banning sewing machines, cloth and thread to make the belts. Nails, tacks, ball bearings etc cannot be banned either. Don’t even try to ban leaf springs and grinders — what it would take to make deadly Kukri style knives and swords . . . try the Kopis.)

    So, we are back to, when guns are outlawed it is outlaws who will have guns. Full grade military weapons too. Genuine assault rifles with intermediate (not high power — such proved very hard to control) cartridges, single shot, burst mode and full auto mode.

    The terrorists are here, driven by their religiously motivated, world conquest ideology.

    They are not going away.

    The police are going to be 10 – 30+ minutes out, when you need effective response in 10 seconds.

    At Garland TX that was an off duty officer with a Glock 0.45, taking out two terrs with AR15s was it, in 15 s, despite being under a hail of bullets (he needed an armoured shielded location and backup in a location able to take the terrs in enfilade; and they should have had 6.5 mm Tavor bullpups with AP rounds or something comparable).

    The case for organised, trained, adequately supported civilian marshals is patent.

    And, a sliding scale of appropriate levels of protection is also patent.

    KF

  272. 272

    Dave S,

    Re: connecticut gun restriction,

    A law (or executive order) intended to prevent known criminals from obtaining firearms legally is sound policy. The governor should be commended. It won’t completely prevent criminals (potential terrorists) from getting guns, but it WILL make it more difficult. Whatever CAN be done SHOULD be done.

    Introducing laws which prevent law abiding citizens from obtaining firearms is not good policy. What President Obama proposes to do executively, will make us less safe. If congress doesn’t stop him, we’re going to see potentially more carnage. Let us hope that the next President in office reverses whatever he puts in place.

    I think Jerry Falwell II at Liberty University has the right idea. He’s encouraging students who have concealed carry permits to go ahead and carry on campus. Previously guns were only allowed in a student’s vehicle, and not in the dorms. That has changed. Apparently over 1,000 Students at Liberty have concealed carry permits. They consider Liberty the safest college campus in the US.

    https://www.liberty.edu/champion/2013/04/conceal-carry-change/

  273. 273

    KH

    “I try to have a reasonable discussion and people’s only rebuttal is that I am a “\’leftist enabler’. KF honestly presented his idea of civilian marshals and I disagreed with him, providing my reasons.”

    It’s not that it’s the only rebuttal we can come up with. You have ignored the main discussion and historical background, demonstrating that you are merely a leftist enabler. When gun control is the primary solution to gun violence, we have a clear example not of a concern for safety, but of a need to increase government influence in our lives. The “progressive” left always wants increased government. We see that with “climate control,” gun violence and a host of other problems; more tax spending and increased government bureaucracy is always viewed as a solution, and not a problem in itself. That may be OK for you in Canada; but Americans have a history where government HAS been the tyrant; has been the danger. When you talk about gun violence in America, do you not realize that most of it occurs where there is more government, not less? Reducing government influence, or the need for government protection, and empowering citizens to protect themselves, then, is a solution, not a cause.

    You seriously need to educate yourself on violence in America. The most violent places in America are cities run by government regimes who want to control guns. Examples? Chicago (where Obama got his gun-control training), Detroit, Cleveland, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Baltimore, Boston, Pittsburg, Atlanta, Miami, New York……. the list goes on. In fact, if you were to elimintate the most violent cities in America, which are predominantly run by progressive Democrats (the liberal/progressive party in America), you would likely find that gun violence in the rest of the country compares to that of Canada. I would also suggest that a larger percentage of Americans live in urban areas controlled by big government bureaucrats, than do Canadians, and that much of the Canadian gun violence is likely comparable to America (inner city, gang-related, and so forth).

    ‘And one if the root causes (not the only one) is the easy access to guns. Why are people so afraid to talk about it? ‘

    We’re not afraid to talk about it. We’ve done enough talk. Every time there is a mass shooting in America the left begins to talk about gun control. They never address the real problems in the inner city, where gun control laws are the strictest. All the cities I mentioned above, for example.

    Incidentally, California has the strictest gun laws in the country. They didn’t prevent Syed Farook and his childhood friend (who’s now malingering in a mental health facility) from legally acquiring the firearms used in the worst terrorist attack since 911.

    You keep talking about over-reacting to this threat. You must understand that thousands of potential Jihadists have been arrested since 911. The threat is very real. They will try harder and inflict more carnage the next time, and the next, and the next…… They don’t give up. They are like the Terminator;

    http://youtu.be/zu0rP2VWLWw

    So it’s time for us to get serious about the threat. The left certainly IS losimg the argument.

  274. 274
    Kenneth Hughs says:

    CY: “When gun control is the primary solution to gun violence, we have a clear example not of a concern for safety, but of a need to increase government influence in our lives.”

    Where did I say that it was the primary solution? It is a big one but it certainly can’t be done in exclusion of other actions. Gun control does not mean a prohibition on guns, just stronger and more rational regulations around gun ownership, storage, transportation, etc. Doesn’t anybody wonder why we can put people on a no fly list, even though we already have steps in place to make sure they are not armed, yet the same person can go into a store and buy a gun? Surly if he is too much of a risk to allow onto a flight, it is too great a risk to sell him a gun.

  275. 275
    kairosfocus says:

    KH, and, Paris, Nov 13, 2015? KF

  276. 276
    drc466 says:

    KH,

    I think part of the problem, as with most discussions, is your conflicting view of the “truth” about guns, and the effectiveness of government regulations.
    Try replacing the words “gun control” with the word “prohibition”. Legislation can actually do very little to “control” a problem, but a lot to exacerbate it. That’s why most people in the U.S. are against gun control – as a nation, we have a knee-jerk dislike of government regulation that is very well founded on the history of what happens as you grant any government additional regulatory power: some politically-connected people get very rich, more government jobs are created, the private sector suffers, most common people (for very little reason) get screwed out of something they enjoy or need, and criminals ignore it and do what they want at the expense of the common folk. Again – think Prohibition against alcohol and how well that went.
    The best solution for countering terror, domestically at least, is as mentioned a few times above – when the people independently take measure to protect themselves. For example, the church I go to (in a midwest state with concealed carry) has a “security team” of plainsclothes individuals who are a combination of current and former military, police and security. They carry guns at all the services and charity events. We don’t know who they are, for the most people, but we are very happy to have them, and (praise the Lord) have never needed them for security (although they also make excellent EMT’s).
    My guess, KH, is that you have a post-modern revisionist viewpoint of history. You probably think the “Wild West” was an essentially lawless place, that towns always got shot up by outlaws, and that the “safe” towns had sheriffs that collected guns at the town limits (snort). You may have even read that atrocious book that claimed early America was largely gun-free. And you may even believe that the U.S. has significantly more lethal violence that “gun-free” countries. And that “gun control” has been effective in places where it is government enforced. Most of us who are anti-gun control don’t believe any of that, and believe that we can back it up with accurate history, facts, and figures.

    One last thing – the issue with not issuing guns to people on “no-fly” and “terrorist watch” lists? These lists are just names, mostly – not SSN’s, fingerprints, detailed profiles, etc. So, if “Kenneth Hughs” in Peoria IL knocks over a bank and gets tagged as a felon/terrorist/flight risk and his name goes on a list – guess what? No gun for you!

  277. 277

    “Where did I say that it was the primary solution? It is a big one but it certainly can’t be done in exclusion of other actions. Gun control does not mean a prohibition on guns, just stronger and more rational regulations around gun ownership, storage, transportation, etc.”

    Why don’t you try to address the substance of what I said, rather than snipping it out of its context? I qualified gun control as the primary solution among liberal progressives. It’s primary because the goal is more regulation rather than realistic solutions.

    Do you think that citizens can reasonably protect themselves from an active shooter attack by killing the shooter while he/she is in action, or do you think they should wait until the government comes to protect them? That’s the bottom line.

    If you can’t see the sense in citizens being empowered to protect themselves, then I’m afraid we have nothing further to talk about. It’s a fundamendal issue that is going to be reconed with, as we become more and more targets of Islamist aggression; as well as domestic aggression.

  278. 278
    George Edwards says:

    CY, I think a big part of the difference between Canada and the US is the right, in the US, to use violent force to protect property. In Canada, we can’t do that. Do you think it is a right?

  279. 279
    daveS says:

    KF,

    Earlier in the thread we were discussing how unfortunately polarized these debates are. Yet today you let loose with:

    as in you may not be interested in the war and want to get back to likely the cultural marxist–progressivist, radically secularist evolutionary materialist scientism agenda and its fellow travellers …

    Do you not see how unnecessarily polarizing your own behavior is?

    Bear in mind that KH’s position is not fringe; in fact it’s held by many people throughout the civilized world. If you’re trying to persuade any of these people that you’re right, you could tone down the insults and slurs.

  280. 280

    GE,

    The laws are different from state to state regarding the use of force. In Canada, perhaps federal laws trump provincial laws more than US federal laws do state laws. I don’t know, but I suspect this is so.

    But that’s something to keep in mind when trying to compare two very different countries.

    I lived in Western Canada when there, and I know that Canadians in the West often complain that peiople in Ottawa make the laws for the rest of the country. There’s that sentiment here in the US of course, as well; but it doesn’t seem to be as federalized as in Canada. And that’s another difference beween the two countries; federalism vs. states rights is a huge issue in the US. Canada seems to be much more interested in unity over individualism. At least it seems that way to me

    Everybody:

    I’ve spent the day comparing states for gun ownership, gun murder rates and poverty rates. Why? What else to do on a rainy afternoon?

    Tryig to compare Canadian gun laws, ownership, poverty, urbanization and other factors vs. these same factors in the US is a next to impossible task, given the different units of measure between the two countries. So I think it’s best just to compare the states with one another.

    Here’s what I’m finding:

    There doesn’t seem to be a clear correlation between the gun ownership rate and the gun murder rate. Some states have high gun ownership rates and high murder rates, while some of the states with the highest gun ownership have the lowest gun murder rates.

    There also does not seem to be a correlation between the poorest states and gun murder rates in the same way.

    What I DID find is that the ten states with the strictest gun laws, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Rhode Island, Maryland, Hawaii, Connecticut, New York, Massachusetts, New Jersey and California (in that order), do not have the nation’s lowest gun murder rates. They are some of the lowest, but there are some states with high gun ownership, less strict gun laws, high poverty rates, and yet lower gun murder rates. Those are: West Virginia, with 55.4% gun ownership, more permissive gun laws, and one of the lowest gun murder rates in the country at 1.5/100,000. Other states with similarities include Kentucky, Oklahoma, Alabama, Montana, Maine, Indiana, Kansas and New Hampshire. New Hampshire has nearly 3 times as many guns as rhode island, and 1/3 of the gun murders with more permissive gun laws.

    I’m still trying to find the common factors that correlate, and stricter gun laws only seem to restrict the number of guns owned. All those ten states have very low gun ownership. Here’s the stats on that:

    PA – 34%
    IL – 20%
    RI – 12%
    MD – 21%
    HI – 7%
    CT – 16%
    NY – 18%
    MA – 13%
    NJ – 12%
    CA – 21%

    Now here’s states with lower gun murder rates and far more guns:

    MN – 41%
    VT – 42%
    NE – 38%
    ID – 55%
    AK – 58% One of the highest gun ownership states, and a gun murder rate equal to or less than the 10 strictest gun law states. I’m beginning to believe that there’s a combination of factors as to why this is so. One factor might be low rate of urbanization, or higher income levels. Another might be purpose of gun ownership (recreation vs. protection), etc…
    WI – 44%
    WY – 60% The highest gun ownership in the country and one of the lowest gun murder rates in the country. Very liberal gun laws. Seems to be similar to Alaska – relatively high income levels, low urbanization and gun usage more for recreation, rather than for protection. That would be my guess. I’m not aware of any statistics for reasons for gun use from state to state. That would be a very useful statistic
    ND – 51%
    SD – 57%
    MT – 58%

    DC is not a state, but a district. It is 100% urban, and has extreme gun control and the highest poverty rate if counted as a state. Gun ownership is 3.6, the lowest in the country if counted as a state. The gun murder rate is the highest in the country at 16.5/100,000 (if counted among the states). Since DC is coextensive with the city of Washington, it would probably make a lot more sense to compare it with other urban centers in the US. Urbanization is the next factor I’ll check, but that’s a task for another day.

    I’d like to find a more complete list of gun laws per state. I’m looking into that.

  281. 281
    George Edwards says:

    CY: “I lived in Western Canada when there, and I know that Canadians in the West often complain that peiople in Ottawa make the laws for the rest of the country.”

    And I live in Ottawa and I am constantly amazed how little influence I have on the laws. But I understand your point.

    Tryig to compare Canadian gun laws, ownership, poverty, urbanization and other factors vs. these same factors in the US is a next to impossible task, given the different units of measure between the two countries.”

    What are the different units of measure? I always thought that dead was dead.

    The remainder of your post seems to be claiming that you can’t correlate gun violence and gun laws in the US because some states with strict gun laws have high gun violence rates and others with minimal gun laws have low gun violence. I am not disputing the numbers but you must admit that there is little to no restriction on the transport of guns between states. If NYS has strict gun laws, what’s to stop me from driving to NJ to buy a gun?

    In Canada, it is against the law to transport alcohol between provinces. But people from Ottawa drive into Quebec every day to buy beer because it is cheaper.

    Transporting firearms through a country border is more difficult. But not impossible. Most of the handguns used in Canadian crimes were smuggled in from the US. If they weren’t so readily available in the US, the problem in Canada would be lower. Or are you suggesting that we should make handguns more easily available in Canada? If your answer is yes. How do you suggest that this will reduce gun violence? The math just doesn’t work.

  282. 282
    Brent says:

    Good work CY.

    It isn’t specifically what you were looking for I don’t think, but the links I provided above may help you substantiate what you want to show anyway.

    Did you see them?

    https://mises.org/blog/mistake-only-comparing-us-murder-rates-developed-countries

    http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-c.....countries/

  283. 283

    GE,

    “What are the different units of measure? I always thought that dead was dead.”

    There are differences from one jurisdiction to another, with how and for what purpose some statistics are gathered.

  284. 284

    Brent

    Thanks for the links.

    It seems the more take an honest look at these numbers, we find no clear correlation between the presence of guns and murder by gun.

  285. 285
    Seversky says:

    For some reason this reminds me of Humphrey Bogart’s line as Philip Marlowe in the 1946 movie The Big Sleep:

    My, my, my! Such a lot of guns around town and so few brains. You know, you’re the second guy I’ve met today that seems to think a gat in the hand means the world by the tail.

  286. 286
    kairosfocus says:

    DS,

    Pardon, but I was there, I lived through the 9/11 event and was very aware of its wider context. Recall, climate change was to be the number one topic on the world agenda, with the 1997 Kyoto Protocol and the series of IPCC assessment reports guiding the way.

    That was the plain trend line shattered by Bin Laden.

    It is a plain fact, visible on scanning major headlines for any significant period, that there is a very obvious international elitist agenda at work in our civilisation, and I recall distinctly how the 9/11 event cut clean across the agendas of the time.

    I saw the stunned silence for months, then the gradual return to the business as usual push and manipulation of opinion through no blood for oil, Bush lied people died, etc and the steady drumbeat of refusal to actually frankly and substantially discuss the nature of Islamism and its geostrategic challenge. It is no accident that so much of the above is utterly unfamiliar.

    So, no, I reject the characterisation that pointing out the agenda to those being enmeshed in it is “polarising.”

    I am pointing out that A is itself, evident and manifest here, there, there and there.

    I saw the steady marginalisation of those who dared not to toe the partyline.

    I saw the geostrategic irresponsibility that walked away from sound counsel and made the sort of blunders that have brought us to Iran at nuke threshold with little or no checks. Brought us not an Arab Spring but an Islamist winter, with ISIS and — absent the people backed coup that stopped it — a Muslim Brotherhood ruled Egypt.

    Had that cluster gone through, we would now be living through an utter nightmare.

    When, today, in the teeth of an evident moving of World War 0/IV (= renewal of the 1400 year war) that is our situation, we need to wake up bigtime to the march of folly that is so plainly in charge of our civilisation and its agendas.

    I firmly believe, for cause, that the lessons of history were paid for in the grim coin of blood and tears. Those who distort, dismiss, neglect or ignore doom themselves to pay the same price over and over and over again.

    So, I challenge, let us actually soberly assess what is in front of us, staring us in the face.

    World War IV, already in progress as a slow burn global geostrategic contest, and now at nuclear threshold because of blunders of Western leadership in dealing with Iran since the 1970’s. Or have we forgotten that WW II after the Polish campaign went into a phony war, quiet phase until it exploded in the Blitz in the West? That it went largely quiet again until Hitler moved against Russia? Just because nothing obvious, spectacularly threatening at existential level and grabbing headlines all around the world is going on does not mean that nothing is going on.

    (And FYI, one of my profs in physics was part of the then peaceful Iran nuke physics programme under the Shah. Yes, they had an atoms for peace type nuke reactor and were studying nuclear physics.)

    It is time for us to understand that we are up against a 100 year global subjugation agenda, now at nuke threshold. And should Pakistan ever fall to the Islamists, that will compound.

    It is time for us to realise that terrorism is not a random effect of our times, it is jihad by bands, calling for concerted response.

    It is time for us to understand that we face a settlement/civilisational jihad campaign, summed up in the captured 1991 explanatory memo:

    The priority that is approved by the Shura Council for the work of the Group in its current and former session which is “Settlement” . . . .

    In order for Islam and its Movement to become “a part of the homeland” in which it lives, “stable” in its land, “rooted” in the spir-its and minds of its people, “enabled” in the live of its society and has firmly-established “organizations” on which the Islamic structure is built and with which the testimony of civilization [–> thus creation of an alien and fundamentally hostile culture based on enclaves] is achieved, the Movement must plan and struggle to obtain “the keys” and the tools of this process in carry out this grand mission as a “Civilization Jihadist” responsibility which lies on the shoulders of Muslims and – on top of them – the Muslim Brotherhood in this country . . . .

    The process of settlement is a “Civilization-Jihadist Process” with all the word means. The Ikhwan must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and “sabotaging” its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God’s religion is made victorious over all other religions. Without this level of understanding, we are not up to this challenge and have not prepared ourselves for Jihad yet. It is a Muslim’s destiny to per-form Jihad and work wherever he is and wherever he lands until the final hour comes, and there is no escape from that destiny except for those who chose to slack. [–> notice this term] But, would the slackers and the Mujahedeen [–> the name commonly used for Islamist combatants] be equal.

    Clear enough?

    Ask yourself, why did this not dominate the world’s major media headlines for months? (Remember Abu Ghraib, a scandal about some out of control soldiers in prisons? The 1991 explanatory memo was captured from a board level leader of the MB in the US, first stopped by a police officer noticing photographing of bridge supports. It was part of a trove of 80 bankers boxes of documents. The 1982 MB The Project 100 year plan was captured by Swiss Financial police from a Muslim financier in the aftermath of 9/11. Such documents from such provenance SHOULD have dominated world headlines to the point of becoming bywords. That did not happen, and that itself is a strong clue. )

    Then, realise what that implies about how the news and views media are manipulated.

    So, despite the dominant media trends, the emergence of jihadism dominated enclaves in our societies and of linked conflicts [recall, 750+ in France alone] is a strong clue pointing to a much wider pattern, as is the rise of razzias including assassin cult suicide attacks.

    When we can wake up enough to face that reality, then we will begin to see why it makes sense to prepare ourselves for action in defence of ourselves on a local, national, regional and international basis. In the face of intended conquest, mass slaughter, subjugation under apartheid like dhimmitude and outright enslavement as ISIS so clearly demonstrates.

    Remember, as we speak, captive women are being sold as sex slaves for as low as US$ 10, with much higher premium for underage girls.

    KF

  287. 287
    kairosfocus says:

    Seversky, wake up and smell the unwelcome fires of reality. KF

  288. 288

    FBI found what looks like a CD under a bridge at Seccombe Lake. Perfect place to dispose of the whole computer. That would be my guess. But, it could just be an old scratched Rubber Soul or Full Moon Fever. Like I said; polluted lake, lots of dumping. They’re going to be there a very long time.

    http://m.pe.com/articles/fbi-7.....eking.html

  289. 289
    kairosfocus says:

    CY,

    the incidence of violence and murder in communities is clearly connected to history and to longstanding polarisation/ incompatibilities in the communities.

    It also ties to family (including, extended) breakdown and the disconnectedness and alienation that are so often coupled to urbanisation and the rise of a fundamentally angry urban poor class.

    Mix in alcohol, drugs and gangs or more deeply organised crime and we have a framework that is historically anchored.

    For instance, new world societies and violently colonised zones in the old world tend to have higher rates of violence and other crimes against the person.

    Very low crime rates tend to be associated with stable, well churched and relatively homogeneous communities where there are no angry alienated distinctive lower classes.

    Also, a history of violence in recent generations tends to perpetuate itself.

    In short, major social changes are required to move a community away from dynamics of anger and violence.

    In the meanwhile, there is much to be said for the rise of affordable firearms as equalising strong and weak, those with long term training to arms and those with a few months of drill equipping them to shoot with reasonable effectiveness.

    And knowing that a home or business is likely to be defended is an obvious check on robbery.

    People who respect others, value life and are reasonably at peace with themselves are much less likely to resort to violence.

    Of course, there is the aspect of social violence by the tongue, which can be utterly destructive. That is what duels were about and it is what lawsuits are about.

    So it is unsurprising that you can have high possession rates of firearms and very low violent crimes rates that use guns.

    Conversely, historically there have been high rates of violence without guns. Indeed I think some studies showed that the introduction of widespread fire arms access led to the reduction of such violence through deterrence.

    So the issue is complex, especially in a world where there is a widespread drugs trade. And frankly, where machine shop technology is widespread. It is frighteningly easy to make handguns, shotguns and submachine guns. Indeed, in WW II in Poland, a version of the Sten Gun was clandestinely manufactured.

    Today, there is talk of 3d printer guns.

    Guns cannot be eliminated, and it is manifest that a clear agenda towards such confiscation in the US will so alienate a widely and deeply armed population that chaos amounting to 4th generation war — a civil war — will result.

    The politicians must know this and are likely trying to emotionally manipulate those they want to draw on for votes in a very polarised election cycle.

    So, again, I find the attempt by elites in media and politics to divert attention from a major threat has very little justification.

    Though on track record of the past 14 years it may well work in terms of getting who the progessivist agendas and factions want, elected.

    And perhaps, the watershed has already been passed with the imposition of an unnatural and tendentious, deeply polarising false definition of marriage and family under false colours of law. Which sets up Christians as targets of the favoured and promoted homosexualists. As we are seeing.

    Likewise, with the mass slaughter of innocent life in the womb, which is the largest single instance of violence and holocaust in the world. 55+ millions in 40 years in the US alone. And with the Guttmacher numbers of about 50 mn abortions per year, coming on a billion globally. That of course does not make it into violent crime and murder statistics, as it is under false colours of law.

    And in fact this is the ENGINE that drives the agenda, and which is so utterly corrupting, as that is what bloodguilt does.

    So, just maybe the push about guns is in material part displacement of sentiments against a convenient target.

    For sure, we do not hear a widespread moral outcry from the same quarters against the abortion holocaust.

    Which, by number and by implicating a broad cross section of people, is the worst holocaust in history.

    I have very low confidence in the prospects for our civilisation, but it is duty to stand against the tide.

    KF

  290. 290
    daveS says:

    KF

    So, no, I reject the characterisation that pointing out the agenda to those being enmeshed in it is “polarising.”

    You have no evidence of KH, or anyone else here, being “enmeshed” in “the agenda”. Much less being an “enabler” or anything pertaining to “cultural marxist–progressivist, radically secularist evolutionary materialist scientism”. Nothing in your post #286 supports this.

  291. 291
    kairosfocus says:

    DS, simply scan above i/l/o the long since known pattern of talking points and particularly the consistent distraction from the proper focus of the thread. Do not overlook the times I have had to snip out vulgarities from his comments and give language warnings. KF

  292. 292
    daveS says:

    Scanning above, I see no evidence of anyone enabling terrorists & etc.

    Referring to your #286 again, were you in New York, Washington, DC, or Pennsylvania on Sept 11?

  293. 293
    kairosfocus says:

    DS, You have made a strawman, the relevant enabling behaviour is not direct involvement with terrorism or the Jihadist movement — that would be an FBI matter not a blog discussion. It is that there is a widespread sociocultural agenda and trend (it dominates the media and opinion) that consistently diverts from the Jihadist threat, marginalises those who are foolish enough not to toe the line, and is caught up in the broad progressivist, cultural marxism/ critical theory/ Alinskyism influenced, radically secularist, evolutionary materialist scientism and fellow traveller agendas that currently dominate and too often domineer in our civilisation; producinga consistent and widespread, highly predictable pattern of alignments of opinion, agendas and action. Just think, current issues over so called social justice warriors and the like, and the wave of demands for politically correct censoring on college campuses, complete with cases of career busting. The pattern of ongoing patent geostrategic blunders linked to the civilisational march of folly, have set up a situation where not only did state leaders imagine that cossetting Iran and its agendas somehow made policy sense, but felt the public were sufficiently manipulated to go along with it; as they judged in respect of driving a watershed across our civilisation by acting under false colours of law to “redefine” marriage and family — the onward implications of which will be increasdingly evident across years and decades to come; I think this one alone can be a mortal wound to our civilisation. A similar cluster of blunders are connected to the Arab Spring wave which rapidly became the current Islamist Winter that precipitated in the rise of the Islamic State, which actually currently commands more territory than the UK. The ongoing rise of Jihad by bands and assassin cult suicide attacks is a sign of things to come, and the stubborn insistence to ignore this as a marginal matter while we get back to favoured agenda items — which appears above coming from KH — is highly diagnostic. So is the use of abusive vulgar language dripping with contempt and hostility. KF

    PS: It seems you have forgotten that 9-11 was a global live event.

  294. 294
    daveS says:

    KF,

    Well, I suppose it’s hopeless. I have some things to do, so I’ll leave it there. I will say that if you think you’re coming across as a sober analyst of the issues, you might want to think again.

  295. 295
    kairosfocus says:

    PPS: As this is a subject of dismissive remarks per conspiracy theorising (just check out Wikipedia violating its NPOV commitment, of course reflecting that site’s role in the general pattern . . . ), I here cite the notorious right wing wacko source –NOT, the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy:

    The Frankfurt School and Critical Theory

    The Frankfurt School, also known as the Institute of Social Research (Institut für Sozialforschung), is a social and political philosophical movement of thought located in Frankfurt am Main, Germany. It is the original source of what is known as Critical Theory. The Institute was founded, thanks to a donation by Felix Weil in 1923, with the aim of developing Marxist studies in Germany. The Institute eventually generated a specific school of thought after 1933 when the Nazis forced it to close and move to the United States, where it found hospitality at Columbia University, New York.

    The academic influence of the “critical” method is far reaching in terms of educational institutions in which such tradition is taught and in terms of the problems it addresses. Some of its core issues involve the critique of modernities and of capitalist society, the definition of social emancipation and the perceived pathologies of society. Critical theory provides a specific interpretation of Marxist philosophy and reinterprets some of its central economic and political notions such as commodification, reification, fetishization and critique of mass culture.

    Read between the lines.

  296. 296
    kairosfocus says:

    DS, did you observe that you are arguing to the man and not the substantial issue, starting with the key captured documents? KF

  297. 297
    daveS says:

    KF,

    DS, did you observe that you are arguing to the man and not the substantial issue, starting with the key captured documents? KF

    If you’re referring to my post #294, I’m not arguing anything there, just offering some friendly advice. If you want to persuade anyone, i.e., to actually make a difference, rather than just exercise your keyboard, you might consider adjusting your tone.

  298. 298
    kairosfocus says:

    DS,

    again.

    Let’s begin afresh.

    1991 Explanatory memo from the American Branch of the MB to the Egyptian leadership — what follows comes from 286:

    The priority that is approved by the Shura Council for the work of the Group in its current and former session which is “Settlement” . . . .

    In order for Islam and its Movement to become “a part of the homeland” in which it lives, “stable” in its land, “rooted” in the spir-its and minds of its people, “enabled” in the live of its society and has firmly-established “organizations” on which the Islamic structure is built and with which the testimony of civilization [–> thus creation of an alien and fundamentally hostile culture based on enclaves] is achieved, the Movement must plan and struggle to obtain “the keys” and the tools of this process in carry out this grand mission as a “Civilization Jihadist” responsibility which lies on the shoulders of Muslims and – on top of them – the Muslim Brotherhood in this country . . . .

    The process of settlement is a “Civilization-Jihadist Process” with all the word means. The Ikhwan must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and “sabotaging” its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God’s religion is made victorious over all other religions. Without this level of understanding, we are not up to this challenge and have not prepared ourselves for Jihad yet. It is a Muslim’s destiny to per-form Jihad and work wherever he is and wherever he lands until the final hour comes, and there is no escape from that destiny except for those who chose to slack. [–> notice this term] But, would the slackers and the Mujahedeen [–> the name commonly used for Islamist combatants] be equal.

    Clear enough?

    Ask yourself, why did this not dominate the world’s major media headlines for months? (Remember Abu Ghraib, a scandal about some out of control soldiers in prisons? The 1991 explanatory memo was captured from a board level leader of the MB in the US, first stopped by a police officer noticing photographing of bridge supports. It was part of a trove of 80 bankers boxes of documents. The 1982 MB The Project 100 year plan was captured by Swiss Financial police from a Muslim financier in the aftermath of 9/11. Such documents from such provenance SHOULD have dominated world headlines to the point of becoming bywords. That did not happen, and that itself is a strong clue. )

    Then, realise what that implies about how the news and views media are manipulated.

    So, despite the dominant media trends, the emergence of jihadism dominated enclaves in our societies and of linked conflicts [recall, 750+ in France alone] is a strong clue pointing to a much wider pattern, as is the rise of razzias including assassin cult suicide attacks.

    When we can wake up enough to face that reality, then we will begin to see why it makes sense to prepare ourselves for action in defence of ourselves on a local, national, regional and international basis. In the face of intended conquest, mass slaughter, subjugation under apartheid like dhimmitude and outright enslavement as ISIS so clearly demonstrates.

    Remember, as we speak, captive women are being sold as sex slaves for as low as US$ 10, with much higher premium for underage girls.

    KF

  299. 299
    George Edwards says:

    And knowing that a home or business is likely to be defended is an obvious check on robbery.”

    Once again your assertions are not supported by the facts. One difference between Canada and the US is that in the US it is your right to use violence to protect your property (I am sure there are variations from state to state. In Canada, it is against the law to use force to protect your property. It is not uncommon to read about a store owner being charged with assault for using violence against the robber.

    Robbery rates per 100,000 is 146 in the US and 94 in Canada.

  300. 300
    George Edwards says:

    KF: “And perhaps, the watershed has already been passed with the imposition of an unnatural and tendentious, deeply polarising false definition of marriage and family under false colours of law. Which sets up Christians as targets of the favoured and promoted homosexualists. As we are seeing.”

    This is priceless. Homosexuals are responsible for the ruin of society. Same sex marriage has been legal in Canada for over a decade and none of the consequences that so called Christians warned about have come true. Nobody is forcing anyone to marry someone of the same sex. Nobody is forcing churches to preside over same sex marriage. Your opposition to same sex marriage is purely religious. But we have freedom of religion, which also means that we can have freedom from religion. You have the right to live your life by your religious beliefs as long as it does no harm to others. But you do not have the right to force your religious beliefs on others.

  301. 301
    kairosfocus says:

    GE: I spoke to a general point. As for US robbery rates, the aggregate is almost meaningless, the diversity between major cities with intractable violence producing factors and areas in say “flyover country” makes the overall aggregate figures almost meaningless in a comparison. The proper comparisons would be between areas with similar demographic and sociocultural factors and sharply diverse gun ownership patterns. The way to bet is that criminals are smart enough to know that guarded stores and homes are more dangerous than unguarded ones. As an example think about why you do see shops and houses with postings like insured by Smith and Wesson, and comparatively few declaring; gun free zones, without armed protection. KF

  302. 302
    kairosfocus says:

    GE, Did you notice my actual context? The distortion of law involved — false colour of law — is the specifically dangerous trend. A trend that I specifically connected onwards to the distortion of law that has promoted the abortion holocaust. When law becomes seriously distorted and public thinking is manipulated in support of such — including the mass bloodguilt involved on this case of mass abortion, a march of folly is under way. Such, will not end well. KF

  303. 303
    George Edwards says:

    KF: “I spoke to a general point. As for US robbery rates, the aggregate is almost meaningless, the diversity between major cities with intractable violence producing factors and areas in say “flyover country” makes the overall aggregate figures almost meaningless in a comparison. “

    Translation: you can’t compare the US to Canada because the majority of US live in large cities where violence is more common.

    Much further up in this thread you made this statement to Kenneth Hughs to explain why you can’t compare the US to Canada:

    KS, on just one point, we both know that the predominant majority of Canada’s population is in largely urbanised zones…”

    So, the take away from your argument is that for one example. we can’t compare the US to Canada because the majority of US population live in cities. And, for another example, we can’t compare Canada to the US because the majority of Canadian population live in cities.

    Do you not see the internal inconsistency in your arguments:

  304. 304
    George Edwards says:

    KF: “GE, Did you notice my actual context? “

    Yes I did. I just think that your argument is not supported by the evidence. Feel free to provide some evidence that same sex marriage is harmful to society in any way. But please, real evidence, not fear mongering predictions that have not materialized. It is no shame to admit that you can’t.

  305. 305
    kairosfocus says:

    GE, this is not a debate on same sex marriage. So, I gavel the tangent, you can find more than enough evidence on the manipulation of law and implications as well as on the damaging consequences of rampant and widespread homosexualism in a culture if you are serious about it. But you are providing more evidence of the agenda and its narrative. And I am sure you know well enough to realise that one ought not compare statistical apples with oranges, and full well understand the basic point. As in there is a reason why there is a market for armed protective services, as can be seen all around the world at all sorts of scales — from security guards to trillion dollar, global navies. KF

  306. 306
    George Edwards says:

    KF: “GE, this is not a debate on same sex marriage.”

    Then why did you bring it up? Repeatedly. I naturally assumed that it was relevant to your topic, otherwise I wouldn’t have commented on it.

    With respect to your apples and oranges comment, you were the one who said that you can’t compare Canadian stats to American stats because most Americans live in urban areas. But you previously said that you can’t compare American stats to Canadian stats because most Canadians live in urban areas. So, we agree, most people in both countries live in urban areas. Since we both agree on this, how do you explain the different rates of gun crimes and robberies. I provided my opinion on it (different gun control laws and the fact that Canada does not allow the use of force to defend property). I agree that we can’t compare apples to oranges, but when apples have a significantly lower rate of gun violence and robberies than oranges, it seems to me that an intelligent person would want to figure out why and not simply wave his hands and say that you can’t compare apples and oranges.

    With regard to your comment about the increasing demand for armed protective services, the cynic in me wants to know whether this increase is due to real increases in threat levels, or if it is due to fear mongering campaigns that security firms capitalize on, and feed. You must admit that the profits of security companies come from the fear of the public. Food for thought.

  307. 307
    kairosfocus says:

    GE, You continue to illustrate the point. The manipulation of law, conscience and “Overton Window” — socially reinforced latitudes of acceptance and rejection — in recent decades has been of such character as that our civilisation is at reductio ad absurdum. Of which several cases have been cited (including particularly the ongoing single worst case of sustained lethal violence in history, the global abortion holocaust; which in a generation now probably is about a billion dead, including 50 – 60 millions in the USA), though the main focus is the elephant in the room which is being so studiously tiptoed around. Namely, from very early, links were given to actual captured documents that lay out what confronts our civilisation at the hands of Islamist jihadism. Secondly, if you do not understand why armed protection ranging from security guards to police forces to trillion dollar navies are an important deterrent to violence, then that itself speaks volumes. Regardless of whatever apples to oranges comparatives you may wish to trot out. KF

  308. 308
    kairosfocus says:

    CY, it is becoming apparent that the rifles used were purchased through a shadow [a straw purchase], and in the known context of intended use in terrorist attacks. Such was deeply illegal though the actual purchase itself was superficially technically legal. KF

  309. 309
    daveS says:

    KF,

    Still no justification for labeling your opponents as enablers, cultural Marxists, radical secularists, yadda yadda yadda.

  310. 310
    Jack Jones says:

    @309

    He is more than justified, These people are traitors that are making it harder to deal with the problem we face.

  311. 311
    daveS says:

    Jack Jones,

    Which people are traitors, specifically? And can you tell me how you know they are cultural Marxists, radical secularists, and so forth?

  312. 312
    Jack Jones says:

    “Which people are traitors”

    People like George.

    “And can you tell me how you know they are cultural Marxists, radical secularists, and so forth?”

    I made no claim on this thread of people being cultural marxists, radical secularists.

    I see KF talking about what is going on as supporting cultural marxism. I haven’t seen him call George a Cultural Marxist.

    George could be what the marxist’s would consider, one of their useful idiots that is unwittingly enabling the agenda of destroying the west.

    I used the term enabler, It is the left and cuckservatives that are enabling the islamification of the west.

    Why do you support the Islamification of your country?

  313. 313
    daveS says:

    Jack Jones,

    See post #265, where KF responds to KH, for where cultural Marxism, etc., was brought up.

    Why do you support the Islamification of your country?

    I don’t, in fact.

  314. 314
    Jack Jones says:

    I saw it, He is talking about what George is arguing for, he is not saying that he is a cultural marxist, he is talking about that agenda.

    George might not even be aware that he is serving that agenda but he may have been brainwashed by leftists teachers and the controlled media that it is wrong to sit in judgement of islam and that we should tolerate and welcome it etc.

    He might think that he is being good by defending it, He just might not have woken up.

    “I don’t, in fact.”

    So don’t apologize for people Like George, Educate them where they are going wrong.

  315. 315
    kairosfocus says:

    JJ, I think, traitor is over the top. It speaks to willful breach of loyalty, trust and duty or office in service or support to enemies foreign or domestic [which could include oneself as intended usurper]. Finding oneself caught up in a march of folly, acting to support what one feels is good or right (but is actually manipulated by agit prop experts) better fits enabling behaviour and being even a useful fool as Lenin used the term. I think our interlocutors would profit from reading this discussion of Ac 27 and viewing this animation of Plato’s parable of the cave — pay attention to the shadow shows, then revisiting the evidence adduced or linked in this thread. Remember, we are dealing with actual captured documents here. I think the biggest smoking gun is that at about the same time as Abu Ghraib became a big, news cycle dominating scandal, we hardly if ever heard about these documents and their context, other than to marginalise and dismiss those impolitic enough to try to draw attention to such evidence and its import. I find the contrast between the islamic imprimatur on the complete idiot’s guide to Islam and the one termed the politically incorrect guide, by Spencer. The Cultural Marxists and Critical Theory advocates as well as street agit prop experts such as Alinsky of course operated at a different, sophisticated level. Most of those caught up in movements they influence do not have a clue about the roots and behind the scenes influences and manipulations. For example we would do well to ponder what it means to be a community organiser of the Chicago school deriving from Alinsky, or to do one’s bachelor’s thesis on his approach. Multiply by the baneful effects of evolutionary materialistic scientism and accommodationist fellow travellers and radical skeptical philosophies and movements that fed radical relativism and postmodernism, and we get to a potent and dangerously toxic mix. Then feed in message dominance in a media culture that has long been a handmaiden of various linked agendas and a similarly influenced education system. Cultural decay, not conspiracies in hidden corners. But a lot of cynical manipulation by those who were in position to do a lot better and failed or outright betrayed duty. KF

  316. 316
    George Edwards says:

    Hmm, so I am now also a traitor. To what, I have no idea.

    The impression I get from this threat is, “agree with KF or you are a Marxist, secularist, leftist, enabling traitor.”

    You are certainly entitled to use that approach but it speaks volumes about your actual views and is very telling. Personally I prefer to actually present my argument and support it with evidence.

    And what is with the off topic rant about abortion at 307? I thought the OP was about terrorism, civilian marshals and hardening soft targets. Are you now advocating armed action against abortion clinics? Now, that would be an act of terrorism.

  317. 317
    kairosfocus says:

    PS: Plato’s warning, 2350 years ago:

    Ath. . . .[The avant garde philosophers and poets, c. 360 BC] say that fire and water, and earth and air [i.e the classical “material” elements of the cosmos], all exist by nature and chance, and none of them by art . . . [such that] all that is in the heaven, as well as animals and all plants, and all the seasons come from these elements, not by the action of mind, as they say, or of any God, or from art, but as I was saying, by nature and chance only [ –> that is, evolutionary materialism is ancient and would trace all things to blind chance and mechanical necessity] . . . .

    [Thus, they hold] that the principles of justice have no existence at all in nature, but that mankind are always disputing about them and altering them; and that the alterations which are made by art and by law have no basis in nature, but are of authority for the moment and at the time at which they are made.-

    [ –> Relativism, too, is not new; complete with its radical amorality rooted in a worldview that has no foundational IS that can ground OUGHT, leading to an effectively arbitrary foundation only for morality, ethics and law: accident of personal preference, the ebbs and flows of power politics, accidents of history and and the shifting sands of manipulated community opinion driven by “winds and waves of doctrine and the cunning craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming . . . ” cf a video on Plato’s parable of the cave; from the perspective of pondering who set up the manipulative shadow-shows, why.]

    These, my friends, are the sayings of wise men, poets and prose writers, which find a way into the minds of youth. They are told by them that the highest right is might,

    [ –> Evolutionary materialism — having no IS that can properly ground OUGHT — leads to the promotion of amorality on which the only basis for “OUGHT” is seen to be might (and manipulation: might in “spin”) . . . ]

    and in this way the young fall into impieties, under the idea that the Gods are not such as the law bids them imagine; and hence arise factions [ –> Evolutionary materialism-motivated amorality “naturally” leads to continual contentions and power struggles influenced by that amorality at the hands of ruthless power hungry nihilistic agendas], these philosophers inviting them to lead a true life according to nature, that is,to live in real dominion over others [ –> such amoral and/or nihilistic factions, if they gain power, “naturally” tend towards ruthless abuse and arbitrariness . . . they have not learned the habits nor accepted the principles of mutual respect, justice, fairness and keeping the civil peace of justice, so they will want to deceive, manipulate and crush — as the consistent history of radical revolutions over the past 250 years so plainly shows again and again], and not in legal subjection to them.

  318. 318
    kairosfocus says:

    GE, do you not see how you are coming out of the Alinsky rulebook: personalise, polarise and target. The issue has nothing to do with my personality. Of the appeals to emotions, authority and fact-logic only the third grounds. Take time to look at the captured documents and the non bowdlerised history of Islam. Take time to examine issues and see for yourself. In terms of the history of ideas and ideological influences in our civilisation in recent generations, it is readily seen that classical and cultural marxists have had disproportionate and damaging influence. The geostrategic issues and agendas are there. Just scroll up to the OP and look at that map I first saw on 9-11, and think about what it entails given that, say Al Baghdadi in fact holds a PhD in Islamic studies and is quite serious about restoring Islam to its classical stance and eschatological, world conquering mission. That he is Quraish –do you recognise what that is — is significant, especially if he can claim descent from Mohammed. And there is a lot more. Let me just challenge you: do you know what the black flag army hadith is and the significance of the black flags used by Islamists? Do you know what the Gharqad tree hadith is and why it is embedded in the Hamas covenant? What is the parent organisation of Hamas, and what do the name Qutb and date 1928 in connection with 1924 signify? In that context, of what was Sept 11 2001 the 318th anniversary less one day, and why is the relevant event celebrated in a constellation in the sky? Who is the Polish king connected to this? What is Mahdi and what is prophet Isa per Islamic understandings? Who was Aisha? Hafsa? Mary the Copt? Abu Bakr, Uthman, Ali, Omar? What do these names signify about key foundational matters tied to Islam and its onward history and geostrategic significance down to today? [The issue here is that these are all connected and give context, if you do not understand these you will struggle to make sense of what our civilisation confronts; and the general ignorance points to serious betrayal by our media, educators and opinion leaders of duty to soundly inform the public.] KF

  319. 319
    George Edwards says:

    KF: “GE, do you not see how you are coming out of the Alinsky rulebook: personalise, polarise and target. The issue has nothing to do with my personality.”

    I have said nothing about your personality. Just your debate style. And polarize. Did I call you a Marxist, secularizing, enabling traitor? Did I say anything to polarize other than to disagree?

    Have I disputed any of your claims about the agenda of ISIS and other radical Islamists? No. All I have done is disagree with you on the best way to respond to them. If you consider that to be enabling, then you need a new dictionary, the one you have is lying to you. Turning the west into a walled fortress will not work. History has shown this over and over again.

    Now, if you are capable of a discussion without resorting to name calling, I will tell you what I think the best approach is. If not, have a nice evening.

  320. 320
    daveS says:

    Jack Jones,

    So don’t apologize for people Like George, Educate them where they are going wrong.

    I don’t see where George is going wrong, though.

  321. 321
    Jack Jones says:

    “Turning the west into a walled fortress will not work.”

    Yes it will

    ” History has shown this over and over again.”

    History has shown letting muslims have unrestricted movement has not worked.

  322. 322
    Jack Jones says:

    “I don’t see where George is going wrong, though.”

    @320

    I know, You don’t see.

  323. 323
    Jack Jones says:

    @138 “So, you are a hateful little bigot. You must be proud.”

    George sounds like a social justice warrior, George you are an SJW that vents his spleen at people critical of Islam, aren’t you?

  324. 324
    kairosfocus says:

    GE, you tried the personalise polarise trick, I corrected pointing to the needed basis on fact-logic. You then proceeded to duck substance and argue to the man again, oh it’s your debate style. And BTW the issue is warrant not style. Further, if you cannot see that Paris, Mali and SB all point to the need for target hardening, then that itself speaks volumes. In a context where you tried apples oranges statistics to counter basic commonsense not generally under question: security is protective and a deterrent to potential attackers. KF

    PS: Can you answer the questions listed above? If not you are not in a position to have an independent opinion. As just one clue, Mary the Copt was a slave concubine gifted to Mohammed and a Christian woman who refused to surrender her faith.

  325. 325
    George Edwards says:

    JJ: “@138 “So, you are a hateful little bigot. You must be proud.”

    George sounds like a social justice warrior, George you are an SJW that vents his spleen at people critical of Islam, aren’t you?”

    Maybe the person who made the comment @138 is a social justice warrior. Maybe you should ask him.

  326. 326
    George Edwards says:

    GE: “Now, if you are capable of a discussion without resorting to name calling, I will tell you what I think the best approach is. If not, have a nice evening.”

    KF: “GE, you tried the personalise polarise trick, I corrected pointing to the needed basis on fact-logic. You then proceeded to duck substance and argue to the man again, oh it’s your debate style.”

    Translation: “No, I am not willing to engage in a discussion with someone who disagrees with me without name calling and groundless accusations.”

    Good night. Have a good evening.

  327. 327
    Jack Jones says:

    “Maybe the person who made the comment @138 is a social justice warrior. Maybe you should ask him.

    Sorry george, I confused you with Kenneth, You do seem like an sjw though, You care more about defending your muslim mates than defending the borders.

  328. 328
    daveS says:

    Jack Jones,

    Just out of curiosity, do you think we should temporarily ban immigration of Muslims to the US?

  329. 329
    Jack Jones says:

    You said to KF “Your opposition to same sex marriage is purely religious.”

    I know secularists that are against it, This guy for example, did not make a religious argument against it.

    “The Secular Case Against Gay Marriage
    Adam Kolasinski”

    http://tech.mit.edu/V124/N5/kolasinski.5c.html

    “But we have freedom of religion, which also means that we can have freedom from religion. You have the right to live your life by your religious beliefs as long as it does no harm to others. But you do not have the right to force your religious beliefs on others.”

    You reject objective right and wrong and then you are saying what people do not have a right to do. You need to make up your mind.

    So we see that you support homosexual marriage, you support Islamification which is being used to destroy Christian Countries. You claim that there is no objective right and wrong.

    You sure do sound like a cultural marxist, if the cap fits as they say.

  330. 330
    kairosfocus says:

    GE, three strikes you are out. Personalise polarise again, and failure to engage already linked first level elaborations and relevant clips. You are projecting your own problem to others. So we see here: projecting, check. Doubling down when challenged on substance check. Speaking with disregard to truth in hope of profiting by what is said or suggested being taken as true, check. That’s The three key SJW fails, in reverse order. I suggest you go take time out to ponder and do better. KF

  331. 331
    kairosfocus says:

    JJ

    thanks but let us not further entertain the tangents. I note the patent anti-Christian bigotry in dismissal. Of course GE has not actually examined say Girgis, George and Anderson on what is marriage, Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy:

    http://www.harvard-jlpp.com/wp.....eFinal.pdf

    We are seeing here a case in point of the manipulated enablers; one who does not even realise there is a substantial case has not properly heard so on appeal to prejudice he dismisses strawmannised “religion.” He has no clue about the worldview foundations of ethical theism or the solidity of the 500 witnesses foundation of the Christian tradition.

    It is enough back on topic that on captured high level documents a major geostrategic challenge is on the table and we see insistent going everywhere but to address it.

    After over 300 comments.

    March of folly.

    Links, as a start:

    MB 1982 the project 100 y world conquest: http://www.investigativeprojec.....sc/687.pdf

    MB North America 1991 Settlement Jihad: https://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/misc/20.pdf

    English is p 15 in both.

    Now let us see if these will attend to evidence.

    Going further, Jan Sobieski is the king of Poland who on Sept 12 1683 led the greatest cavalry charge in history, breaking the Ottoman Caliphate’s siege of Vienna, so 11 Sep 1683 was high water mark of Islam against Western civ. Bin Laden was sending the symbolic message we are back. And Scutum is named after Sobieski’s shield.

    That is how significant this turning point battle was.

    GE et al of course haven;t a clue and do not realise this means they are seriously out of depth where big sharks lurk.

    And our major media in 14 years have not pointed such out.

    Remember crashing aircraft into skyscrapers — both invented in the USA and symbols of American prowess — was also deeply symbolic.

    KF

  332. 332
    Jack Jones says:

    Thanks for those PDF’s KF

  333. 333
    Brent says:

    Just a reminder for the hard of hearing through all the sounding of alarms in this thread:

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015.....-to-be-big

    If a clown like this knows infinitely more than the FBI, Homeland Security, et al, we are in SERIOUS trouble.

  334. 334
    kairosfocus says:

    JJ,

    welcome, if you scroll up there is much more.

    And to underscore the point on relevant base of knowledge, Hafsa is of course one of Mohammed’s wives and concubines (there were about 20 all told).

    Her particular significance is that she is the one whose copy of the Quran was used as the base for the standard copy, after amendment under Uthmann. It is known that there were significant changes amounting IIRC to some 20% of the text across the various copies. There was an attempt to have variants destroyed, but some survived as well as abundant testimony on the variations. On her death, the copy she had was destroyed by order.

    A pivotal discovery in our time was very old copies of text found in Sana, Yemen as palimpsests [erased and over-written text] that were examined by a German Scholar providing technical support, and which have been preserved as an independent textual record not under control of the Muslim leadership.

    As there is a dogma of perfection of the Quran’s text, this is highly significant empirical refutation, and so Oskar of Answering Islam comments in the just linked:

    B. Was it just a bad copy used by those whom the Uthmanic text had not yet reached?

    There are several problems with such an assumption:

    1. The palimpsest ‘DAM 0 1-27.1’ has been proven to actually contain four different Qurans: A complete primary and secondary text, and both showing later corrections. Therefore we are not just dealing with one but four ‘bad copies’ within the first Islamic century. If the Uthmanic text had not yet reached the mosque, upon what basis were the corrections of the two different texts made?

    2. The Great Mosque of Sana’a where the manuscripts were found was built in the 6th year of the Hijrah by one of Muhammad’s companions.11 It was a centre of Islamic learning and as such must have been supplied with Uthman’s text immediately and urgently, since the Qurans found in any mosques have naturally been in use among the Muslims.

    3. Since even the secondary text with the corrections does not resemble the Uthmanic text 100%, the question arises as to why it was not corrected when the ‘Authorized Version’ arrived? To keep a different Quran in an Islamic centre of learning is a recipe for passing on false teachings.

    4. Where do we go from here?

    It has become clear that the Quran is not a record of the exact words revealed by God. Instead, the palimpsest, known as ‘DAM 0 1-27.1,’ demonstrates clearly that the holy book of Muslims has gone through stages of historical developments.

    That, too is not part of the politically correct narrative, of course.

    More to follow, of course.

    KF

  335. 335
    kairosfocus says:

    Brent:

    Spencer is passing along a NYT article, which discusses the neighbour who actually bought the rifles and in 2012 had discussed an earlier terrorism plot:

    San Bernardino Attackers’ Friend Spoke of ‘Sleeper Cells’ Before Rampage

    By IAN LOVETT, JACK HEALY, MICHAEL S. SCHMIDT and JULIE TURKEWITZ

    DEC. 11, 2015

    RIVERSIDE, Calif. — The regulars did not take it seriously when Enrique Marquez mused about terrorism at Morgan’s Tavern, a dank dive bar where Mr. Marquez hauled ice, cleaned bathrooms and checked IDs at the door. After a few drinks, he would just start talking — about his money woes, trying to lose weight, wanting to join the Navy. News reports about terrorism were just fodder for more bar talk.

    “He would say stuff like: ‘There’s so much going on. There’s so many sleeper cells, so many people just waiting. When it happens, it’s going to be big. Watch,’ ” said Nick Rodriguez, a frequent patron who had known Mr. Marquez on and off for the past two years. “We took it as a joke. When you look at the kid and talk to him, no one would take him seriously about that.”

    But nine days after a husband and wife slaughtered 14 people in a terrorist attack at a county health department meeting, Mr. Marquez, 24, a childhood friend of the husband, Syed Rizwan Farook, has become a crucial if unlikely figure in the investigation of the attack — which was just the kind he discussed when terrorism news reports flashed onto the tavern’s television….

    Federal investigators believe that, more than any other witness, Mr. Marquez, a convert to Islam, has “held the keys” to understanding Mr. Farook and his wife, Tashfeen Malik, and to shedding light on whom they were in contact with in the years leading to the attack, according to one senior law enforcement official. The couple were killed in a shootout with the police.

    On behalf of Mr. Farook, Mr. Marquez bought the two assault rifles used in the attack, the authorities say. He told investigators he had done so, in 2011 and 2012, because Mr. Farook believed he could not pass a background check, officials said. Mr. Marquez has also described in detail how he and Mr. Farook had been planning another terrorist attack together in 2012, the authorities say.

    That is, this is a witness, and is implicated in the wider context.

    That there would be many sleeper cells is utterly unsurprising given what has been going on.

    For every one we see, how many have we not seen that are there?

    KF

  336. 336
    Brent says:

    Right, KF.

    Point being, if the feds already had some suspicions about Farook — and by all accounts they did — it wouldn’t have taken but a moment to have an undercover agent in that bar listening to Marquez who was all too willing to talk. It’s incredible. Just what the heck are the feds doing out there?

    I guess they are too busy facebooking and stuff.

  337. 337
    Zachriel says:

    kairosfocus: That there would be many sleeper cells is utterly unsurprising given what has been going on.

    So you’re saying: There’s so much going on. There’s so many sleeper cells, so many people just waiting. When it happens, it’s going to be big.

  338. 338
    kairosfocus says:

    Z, was Paris “small” or was Mumbai/ Bombay? What about the 19 hijackers of 9-11; recall just how much was shut down over that? My suspicion is we may see a wave of hits from W Europe to Los Angeles. Given the ~ 20,000 missing MANPADS from Libya — what was Ghaddafi doing with that, it would be possible for in a 15 minute window [evening W Europe, Morning LA), for air liners at a dozen key airports to be hit, does not have to knock all of them down. If they can move AK47s like they have, MANPADS are not much bigger, 4 – 6 ft. Look, Al Qaeda modded RPGs to attack helicopters. The issue is whether the chatter is being monitored enough or if they have gone totally offline. Look, a Hispanic convert to Islam in a bar, crying into his beer was close to this sub-cell, I am not convinced the cell has fully been tapped out. The missing out on this one and the Paris attack, has me concerned. And, I am sure there is enough depth to do follow up waves. It is not just random lone wolves out there this is Jihad by bands and assassin cult suicide hits. The issue is, are we paranoid enough? KF

  339. 339
    Zachriel says:

    kairosfocus: Z

    On the one hand, you suggest people should have taken the seemingly idle talk of Marquez seriously. On the other hand, you seem to be minimizing what happened in San Bernardino, USA.

    So you’re saying: There’s so much going on. There’s so many sleeper cells, so many people just waiting. When it happens, it’s going to be big (not as big as 9-11, but big enough to notice). Is that correct?

  340. 340
    kairosfocus says:

    Z, word games do not change reality never mind how comforting it can be to bury one’s head in the sand. Why do you think France is on a 3 month state of emergency and so far has recovered over 300 military grade weapons? Do you think that on $50k/yr and with all sorts of commitments Farook financed his raid? And much more. The principle is, you see one rat there are 20 you are not seeing. And relative to SB, there is reason to think that this was not just two people and their neighbour who so kindly bought two AR15s, in a context where we have his report that they were thinking about other attacks back in 2012. Project your mind to that time and place, where apparently they did dig out another cell. This one was not seen, even as things were going on online and a black widow was being imported. Neighbours saw odd things but did not want to seem racist or profiling and a weapons factory was proceeding. All of this should give pause. As to what is coming, I just note Iran has got what US$150 bn and an effective green light on nukes. Think, backpack demolition type nuke [both the Russians and Americans developed such], south end Manhattan. Think, where did those 20,000 MANPADS in Libya go — with Al Qaeda and ISIS active there. Talk was, you could drive up in a truck and drive off with hundreds. KF

  341. 341
    kairosfocus says:

    GE, I should note that your snide suggestion in 316 above that I would promote attacks on abortion clinics is an outrageous and utterly unwarranted projection that should be apologised for. But it does not change the fact that our civilisation has become so benumbed in conscience and darkened in mind that it is currently carrying out the worst holocaust in history and has been distorting law and public thinking and policy to support it. All, driven by undermining the foundations of morality and law. KF

  342. 342
    Seversky says:

    kairosfocus @ 338

    Z, was Paris “small” or was Mumbai/ Bombay? What about the 19 hijackers of 9-11; recall just how much was shut down over that? My suspicion is we may see a wave of hits from W Europe to Los Angeles.

    No one doubts that these groups intend to carry out further attacks. They will probably succeed in a few case. But, although tragic for those involved, they cannot do serious harm to western society or culture – unless we let them rattle us.

    The reality is that we will not stop such attacks by purely defensive measures. Hardening “soft” targets by the measures you’ve suggested previously would be prohibitively expensive. We could not afford to protect them all and the bad guys, as Kenneth Hughs pointed out, would simply go for those that weren’t. Nor can you rely on public-spirited citizens with CCWs. Ask any expert in this sort of combat and they will tell you that it takes intensive training and extensive practice to become competent enough to use the weapon safely and effectively in extreme situations.

    You’re also violating an important principle of warfare which is that, wherever possible, you don’t allow your enemy to choose the battleground. It gives them the advantage and cedes them the initiative. Instead, you take the fight to them, ideally in ways they don’t expect and which forces them into a defensive posture. Simply thinking in terms of defending possible soft targets is letting the terrorists dictate how the conflict plays out.

    You can certainly improve defensive measures by deploying more rapid-response tactical units and change tactics to those which stress killing attackers as quickly as possible. Much more effective, however, will be expanded intelligence-gathering, choking off supplies of money, arms and equipment and, ultimately, defeating them on the ground. ISIS has an aura of invincibility and success which will disappear once they are seen to be weak and vulnerable to properly armed and trained forces that have the will to fight them.

  343. 343
    George Edwards says:

    KF: “GE, I should note that your snide suggestion in 316 above that I would promote attacks on abortion clinics is an outrageous and utterly unwarranted projection that should be apologised for.”

    If you were offended by the question I asked, then I do oppologize. It was not intended to imply that you would promote violonce against a oration clinics. I was simply trying to discern why my question about your comment about same sex marriage was off topic, even though you were the one who brought it up, and why abortion was on topic. Neither seem relevant to the discussion of terrorism and hardening soft targets. With your writing, it is sometimes difficult to track your train of thought.

    Again, if I offended you, I apologize.

    But, since abortion is obviously an “on topic” subject, it might interest you to know that I am in favour of prohibiting abortion after the first trimester except when the woman’s life is at risk. But, obviously, you and I would disagree on abortion in the first trimester. My stance is based on the science. As such, I am open to changing my stance if the evidence suggests that an early stage fetus feels pain or has a soul. What would convince you to change your stance, at least for early stage abortions?

  344. 344
    George Edwards says:

    KF, Seversky provided you with more or less the same response i would have provided yesterday if you had demonstrated a willingness to address the issue rather than attack the person. But that was yesterday. I will leave it be if you will.

    But to reinforce what Seversky said, you don’t defeat the enemy by building a wall. Jericho should have taught you that. You defeat them by either destroying them completely, not my preference, or by putting them on the defensive such that it is in their best interest to sue for peace. And, as much as this would offend many people, when they sue for peace, you negotiate in good faith and provide massive amounts of support and aid. This is what was done after WWII and Germany and Japan are now two of our biggest allies.

  345. 345
    kairosfocus says:

    GE, whoever said that hardening targets will in itself defeat Islamist terrorism? Another strawman; target hardening by setting up civilian marshals is a common sense suggestion for one small facet of a mu bigger picture, as in how do you get 10 s response when police SWAT teams are 10 – 30+ minutes away — the sharp and dismissive reactions to such a suggestion are illuminating on the mindset involved; especially by way of contrast with Garland TX as a case in point. As to oh its a minor problem, the current rate is 3,000 casualties per month almost 50% dead, and the total of attacks since 9-11 is 27,000. That itself speaks volumes. As in, in effect, 1500 sheeple murdered per month and a similar number wounded is no problem. KF

  346. 346
    George Edwards says:

    KF: “GE, whoever said that hardening targets will in itself defeat Islamist terrorism?”

    Jack Jones at 321.

    I came late to this thread but have read the OP and most of the comments since your list @185. I admit that I may have missed where you said that your list was just one of the tactics in a multi-faceted strategy to deal with the problem. Could you please provide the comment numbers where you suggested this?

    Your reference to Garland Texas is a rare and, luckily, successful example. For every one of those there is a Trevan Martin (i think that was the young unarmed man shot by a “civilian marshal”). But as Seversky pointed out, properly training people to use guns in events is extremely time consuming and extremely expensive. Do you have any concept of what this would cost, in both time and money, in a country like the US?

    First, if my memory serves me, one of your suggestions was the use of high powered weapons and armour piercing rounds. Anybody who has even a remote understanding about responding to hostage situations knows that the last thing you want are armour piercing rounds. They have this nasty tendency of going through the bad guy and several hostages.

    As I said previously, nobody is arguing against reasonable precautions. But reasonable and what you proposed @185 are light years apart. They may be good for G20 meetings, but for other events, what we have now is sufficient.

    You mentioned scaling up or down according to the risk. Which seems reasonable. But what is reasonable for a sporting event. At present people go through metal detectors and bag checks. But that would not have stopped a Paris style attack where they simply blast their way in.

    Every country has finite resources. You deploy them where there is a better return on investment. Increased intelligence, attacking their finances, their communication and their supply lines are a much better use of the finite resources than trying to harden all possible targets in your country. Your approach may have a benefit on your own little island, but in an area the size of North America (or Europe), to be effective the costs would be crippling.

    Thank you.

  347. 347
    daveS says:

    KF, regarding civilian marshals:

    the sharp and dismissive reactions to such a suggestion are illuminating on the mindset involved

    Some of us were simply pointing out why these programs either don’t exist or are not more widespread. For each alternative, some group would have significant objections. I can tell you that the extended conceal carry version would have no chance in my area.

  348. 348
    Zachriel says:

    kairosfocus: Z

    Try answering the question.

    So you’re saying: There’s so much going on. There’s so many sleeper cells, so many people just waiting. Is that correct?

  349. 349
    Jack Jones says:

    @346
    “George EdwardsDecember 13, 2015 at 4:23 pm

    KF: “GE, whoever said that hardening targets will in itself defeat Islamist terrorism?”

    Jack Jones at 321.”

    No I didn’t George.

  350. 350
    Brent says:

    Seversky @342,

    No one doubts that these groups intend to carry out further attacks. They will probably succeed in a few case. But, although tragic for those involved, they cannot do serious harm to western society or culture – unless we let them rattle us.

    No! The problem to this point is precisely THAT we haven’t let them rattle us.

    Additionally, target hardening would not require prohibitively expensive measures, nor training, if approached wisely. For example, using as many who are already well trained and may only need “tweaking” for this sort of “warfare” (the quotes are not for me — I don’t think they’re needed). I am one such person, trained very well how to use an M16 on a traditional battlefield and (much less so) even in urban environments. It would take very little to train someone like me, and there are a LOT of people like me out there.

    Top that off with the fact that, if we can finally “let them rattle us” so that we face up to the war on our doorstep, if not in our living rooms, many would be willing to do a lot of the needed duty for free, or gift cards to Starbucks 😉

    Which brings us to the fact that, we’ve already let the enemy choose the battlefield. It’s here. It’s now. I don’t mean, however, to dismiss your remarks about improved intelligence. It’s a conundrum for me, though, as I despise sweeping intelligence that gathers as much information about me as the Muslims next door. Why should I and others be subjected to that? It’s Islam’s fault that we need to racially/religio-politically profile them. I’m neither sorry or ashamed of that stance, and I reject the PC establishment that says I ought to be.

  351. 351
    George Edwards says:

    Brent, you are fine with increased intelligence gathering on the Muslim next door but not against you? I oppose this and it has nothing to do with political correctness. You, apparently, think that it is perfectly acceptable to have two classes of citizen.

    During the Second World War, we relocated all Citizens of Japanese descent from coastal areas to concentration camps and confiscated their businesses and properties. This, in spite of the fact that they were born here. What made that even more “evil” is that we did not do the same for citizens of German or Italian descent.

    With regard to your training with an m16, I assume that this was in the military. Now, was this training a one time event shortly after enlistment, or was it ongoing? I suspect that it was ongoing. Why do you think that is? If training is so easy and inexpensive, why don’t police forces simply train all officers to perform like SWAT teams do? That would certainly decrease response times.

    The vast majority of police do a good job and have the right personality to perform the job well. But, in spite of this, and in spite of the intensive and ongoing training and evaluations, we still hear of numerous incidents every year where an individual cop uses excessive and unnecessary force. I can only imagine the abuses that would happen with hundreds of poorly or inadequately trained civilian marshals.

  352. 352
    kairosfocus says:

    Brent (attn Seversky & GE et al):

    There are hundreds of thousands to millions in the USA who cumulatively have military and/or police background that would give a relevant baseline. In addition, the US Special Forces were set up primarily to mobilise and train counter-insurgency militias. Millions of hunters by that practice, have basic infantry training, i.e. I here point to Adm Yamamoto’s counsel to the Japanese leadership that an invasion would face a rifle behind every blade of grass.

    The Swiss model, has much to teach.

    The key difference to recent history is, a major battlespace is now at home; the parallel is the early frontier era where attacks by hostiles could happen with little warning and it is the local ability to instantly respond that counts. Remember, 10 seconds when Police SWAT teams are 10 – 30+ minutes away.

    As to the notion that this is a rare, stable lightning strikes sort of thing, nope, it has been steadily rising since the 1970’s.

    It has potential to explode, both in Europe and the Americas.

    The Australians will take care of themselves.

    The rule of thumb estimate is you are looking at 10% of muslims. Pew polls show about 20 – 80% support depending on where in the world. Taking the 1.5 bn estimate, that is on order of 50 millions backed by 500 millions, the largest global military threat in history.

    The black flag hadith points to an army from the direction of Khorasan, implying Iran-Afghanistan-Pakistan, and that Mahdi is among this invincible army. If one has to crawl over ice and snow, one is to join them.

    They are to be in the Syria-Iraq zone and Prophet Isa (an Islamic, eschatological version on Jesus not at all like the NT Jesus) will join.

    ME conquest is envisioned, with associated prediction of a mass slaughter of Jews (Gharqad tree hadith).

    From ME, domination of the world.

    The strategic patterns of recent decades and years in the ME suddenly fit a pattern.

    And of course the Iranian Republic sees itself as vanguard of the Mahdi, and seeks nukes in that context.

    I summarise and do not give details and versions on points, and note that the black flag army hadith is not viewed as as strong as say the Gharqad tree one on the massacre of Jews, But the problem — observing black flags in abundance — is to persuade the militants that things are otherwise.

    We are looking at jihad by bands in that context, with infusions of assassin cult suicide attacks. In some cases I would not be surprised to learn that hashish (source of the name) is involved.

    Beyond jihad by bands is organised full bore war under an acknowledged Caliphate. Which is exactly what Al Baghdadi is claiming to be. So the pledging of loyalty is a crucial move in the ideology and theology of Jihadism.

    From Caliph we move to final Caliph, the world conquering Mahdi. Hence the 100 year plan, the settlement jihad strategy and the sort of projections in the map above.

    The answer in outline is to realise this is a rimlands (perimeter of the Eurasian heartland), choke points and pivotal resource [oil] based continental strategy. Where, I do not think a European-dominated heartland strategy is in view. Most likely the African heartland is the targetted soft continental base of material and population resources to build up the bases and inventory for global subjugation — the view since 1904 has been that given railways and technologies that allow mobilisation of a continent, a dominant continental power can then build up bases and inventory to take up a maritime assault of unprecedented scale, achieving global domination. Eastern Europe has usually been the envisioned focal area, but Africa and China have been seen as other possible bases. Doubtless, India too . . . the second main base of the British Empire. Yes, Mackinder et al saw that as a possibility, though in context India and China while being abstract possibilities; are much less likely. Africa is the soft zone and for the Americas, Latin America and the Caribbean.

    BTW, this may explain the recent Islamist focus on attacking and denouncing France; as France has been most assertive in blocking Islamist expansion southwards in Africa.

    And of course Israel sits in the SW corner of Asia on a choke-point on the land bridge between Africa and the ME. Close to the Nile valley arterial line that bypasses the Sahara.

    A Continental geostrategic thrust is logically and historically best countered by a maritime one. I will give no details here other than say, look to the past 500 years of history and particularly to Britain and the Royal Navy.

    But jihad by bands, by settlement of enclaves, by pen, tongue and agent of influence settling in key institutions backed by oil money has to be defeated if such is to be undertaken.

    We have to be willing to recognise, this is a slow burn global, 4th generation war where multiple battlespaces and theatres of operation are simultaneously engaged.

    Target hardening speaks to that, on the jihad by bands battlespace.

    As does taking up serious policing of no-go zones backed by stronger forces if the police are stalemated or defeated.

    The information and influence battlespace must be engaged, and the unwelcome truth brought out and grounded. The signal failure of media and pundits, speaks volumes. In this space it has to become clear that the Jihadis are deluded and will manifestly fail, as they are not the strong horse.

    Though I will say, an evaluation has been made that an economically and socio-culturally suicidal west invites aggression.

    For the USA, lessons from the Barbary Coast naval wars may teach more soundly than anything since.

    On the intel front, the pivotal issue is not a general surveillance state [that opens up things that we do not need]. Instead, go back to the small wars corpus from generations back: build networks, scout, patrol, bring the money to back partnership and frankly to buy information.

    But the info and influence battle has to be won, and the West will have to make serious amends for its decades long habit of cutting and running before the job is done.

    I know, none of this is palatable.

    Welcome to World War IV, already in progress.

    And, at nuke threshold.

    KF

  353. 353
    Brent says:

    George,

    Well, what do you expect me to say? I already said I don’t apologize for my position 😉

    I didn’t decide on having two classes of citizen. Islamists decided to have two classes of citizens. I’m just being honest about that, unlike way too many people.

    I understand your position on training. Perhaps I’m a little too optimistic in how much training is needed, but not that much I’m sure. On average, for a primarily desk-jockey type like I was, we only had 3 to 4 times a year where we played with our weapons. Not all of those were with live amo either.

    I take issue with your idea that there would be many abuses by civilian marshals, but then I don’t believe there is any reason for them to be poorly trained either. Remember, we are talking about a response team, not civilians sent to root out possible suspects. These only need to be visible for deterrent purposes, and “active” when some idiots decided not to be deterred.

  354. 354
    kairosfocus says:

    Brent, that is the point of civilian marshals, to harden targets and free the full time police to go after the no go zones and embedded sleeper cells, backed by paramilitary police and the outright military. I would not make Muslims second class citizens, but would recognise the roots and socio-cultural focus of the threatening ideology; named by the moderate Algerians, Islamofascism. But this is just one battlespace, I just outlined the geostrategic picture as it looks to me. KF

    PS: On training, you are not teaching people to handle full auto fire. A Tavor bullpup 6.5 mm Grendel with armour piercing rounds — hits much harder than 5.56 mm without the recoil penalty of 0.308/7.62 mm NATO [and it gives 1,000+ m range where that is relevant] — and low mag scope targetted for 100 m with standard rail mounts would be far more manageable than say the old Lee Enfield or an M1 Garand or an M14 or even a full auto M16 or the like. Bullpup of course gives length of barrel in a compact form factor. And personal defence weapons with enhanced rounds and red dot sights would be even easier. I note the French Police were using red dots and Beretta M12 SMGs.

  355. 355
    Brent says:

    KF,

    The signal failure of media and pundits, speaks volumes. In this space it has to become clear that the Jihadis are deluded and will manifestly fail, as they are not the strong horse.

    With this I disagree. You have an unspoken “if” in there. The jihadi’s are not the strong horse and will manifestly fail . . . if we finally stop being deluded ourselves. Otherwise, all bets are off.

    If this were purely a military plan, sure, it is doomed to fail no matter what. But jihad is waged on many more fronts than that, and on many of those fronts the West really IS weak.

    For starters: weak minded.

  356. 356
    kairosfocus says:

    Brent, serious points, care to elaborate? (BTW, the if is in the it has to become manifestly clear.) KF

    PS: Maps and additional points: http://kairosfocus.blogspot.co.....ge-of.html

  357. 357
    kairosfocus says:

    PPS: I should note a civilian marshals corps would be policing not military and would be able to use policing rounds, not military grade ball.

  358. 358
    daveS says:

    KF,

    Millions of hunters by that practice, have basic infantry training

    They do? I know many hunters and this surprises me.

    Do you have a lot of experience handling guns? Perhaps you could tell us about your training and what sorts of weapons you’ve fired, etc.

  359. 359
    kairosfocus says:

    DS, not relevant, save that I do know what I am saying. KF

    PS: Hunting gives baseline training in handling weapons, woodcraft and stalking skills. Also, often, small unit cohesion. (That was a factor all the way back to the American Revolution.) Enough, that one is not dealing with an utter novice — my point, I did not wish to imply that a hunter is equivalent to a recruit who has gone through basic training in the army. In context I first listed those with mil/police training then stepped down, finally ending at the training potential of the Special Forces.

  360. 360
    daveS says:

    KF,

    I think it is relevant. You casually speak of armed and lightly-trained civilians patrolling public areas. Now you are telling us about the skill level of American hunters. How did you develop this expertise?

    Will you at least tell us if you have ever fired a gun?

  361. 361
    kairosfocus says:

    DS, You are reading me incorrectly. Notice, I keep drawing attention to the Swiss model. Where also, I am pointing to the first line: those who are trained police or military already. That should give a yardstick. KF

  362. 362
    daveS says:

    KF,

    One last time: Have you ever fired a gun?

  363. 363
    Jack Jones says:

    @351 “This, in spite of the fact that they were born here. What made that even more “evil” is that we did not do the same for citizens of German or Italian descent.”

    Get your act together George, You argue against objective right and wrongs and then you betray yourself by using the term “Evil” which implies objective right and wrong.

    You need to get your story straight. Why are you arguing for Evil when you reject objective right and wrong for how people should or should not behave?

    You are against Christianity but you are an enabler of a totalitarian death cult that wants to turn western Countries into Islamic Countries under sharia and wants to islamify Europe and turn it into Eurabia.

    The fact you are happy to see the decline of Christianity in Canada but are an apologist for the Evil cult of Islam, Shows you to be [SNIP — Ed] and a very sick puppy indeed.

  364. 364
    kairosfocus says:

    DS, what is most relevant is the persistent pattern in this thread (and elsewhere) of diversion, distraction, personalisation. I draw attention, again to the matter on the table, addressing Jihad by bands in context. One facet of this has been the suggestion that there is a need for a 10s response when SWAT teams are 10 – 30+ minutes away. That, together with the Swiss citizens in arms model, is why I have put up the suggestion of a civilian marshal corps. For target hardening. All of this is in a wider context that I have now drawn up to geostrategic level. Do you find that Islamofascism is a serious issue? Iran’s $150 bn and apparent green light on nukes? ISIS and the declaration of a Caliphate? The black flag and Gharqad tree hadiths and their wider context, including the 1982 MB Project 100 year global conquest plan and the North American Explanatory Memo of 1991? And more? KF

  365. 365
    kairosfocus says:

    JJ, Language warning. KF

  366. 366
    daveS says:

    KF,

    Yes, I do find them to be extremely serious issues. There, I answered your yes/no question.

    Now kindly return the favor and answer my question from #362.

  367. 367
    Jack Jones says:

    Apologies KF, these people rile me.

  368. 368

    Extensive backgroun article. The Indian Sub-continent / Pakistani jihad roots of San Bernardino massacre:

    https://pjmedia.com/blog/deobandi-roots-of-san-bernadino-jihad/1

    [ Haney’s fastidious investigations raised serious concerns about the San Bernardino Deobandi movement-affiliated Darul-Uloom al-Islamia mosque—attended by jihad-waging killer Syed Farook. In addition, Farook’s jihadist accomplice wife, Tashfeen Malik, attended a traditionalist Islamic education center in Pakistan, also connected with the Deobandi movement. Notwithstanding his patriotic, yeoman efforts, DHS shut down Haney’s probe, and revoked both his security clearance and access to the databases he compiled. Retributive investigations against Haney by DHS and the Obama Justice Department, however, revealed no wrongdoing on his part. Tragically, as Haney explained, had his probe not been terminated for alleged “civil rights violations” of jihad-indoctrinated Muslim followers of the Deobandi movement:

    Either Syed would have been put on the no-fly list because association with that mosque, and/or the K-1 visa that his wife was given may have been denied because of his association with a known organizatiohn. ]

    [ The Deobandi-linked jihad carnage that transpired in San Bernardino has much deeper roots, not only on the Indian subcontinent, but dating from at least 1977, within North America, as well. ]

    [ But it is during a series of addresses Nadwi delivered in the summer of 1977 to U.S. (primarily) and Canadian audiences that one sees his unabashed advocacy of Sharia supremacism—overturning “infidel” Western legal systems—by these Muslim diaspora populations. The speeches are open calls for Islamization by both non-violent proselytization, and jihad (spelled, as per the Indian Muslim predilection, “jehad”), even jihad martyrdom. Nadwi appeals to North American Muslims for patience, and unwavering forbearance, but also gives explicit sanction for jihad martyrdom violence—so “Islam be made stronger and brought into power and authority”—entirely consistent with the San Bernardino carnage wrought almost 40 years later by Syed Farook and Tashfeen Mailk. ]

    The most startling revelation here is what is said about Christianity:

    [ This country [the U.S.] is an idol-hall in which the Azan [Muslim call] of Ibrahim has to be given, and this you, alone, can do. You are the real descendants of Ibrahim, not the Jews who have strayed far away from his path. Not the Christians who are the followers of the Christianity of St. Paul, not of Jesus. ]

    If you have paid any attention to online debates about Christianity lately, particularly regarding earliest Christianity; ther is a concerted push to undermine the narrative of the early church among liberal-leaning online participants.

    That Paul invented Christianity is a hot debate, and few realize that the charge originates within Islam. But it has broad appeal among secularists. Half the battle, it seems, is defending the faith.

  369. 369
  370. 370
    kairosfocus says:

    DS, then you will understand why I continue to focus on the substantial issue. KF

  371. 371
    kairosfocus says:

    CY, there was a forest of missed red flags for this case, similar to the Boston Marathon one. Looks like some serious reforms of how Islamist terrorism is to be addressed will be needed. KF

  372. 372
    daveS says:

    KF,

    DS, then you will understand why I continue to focus on the substantial issue. KF

    I guess there’s no chance of getting an answer then.

  373. 373

    For what it’s worth, the Darul-Uloom al-Islamia mosque mentioned in the article; the mosque where Syed Farook spent his lunch hour, is about a block away from where I lived until about 3 months ago.

    The area known as Muscoy is an unincorporated area of San Bernardino County with a San Bernardino post office. It has a population of about 5,000, and has no municipal structure other than mostly paved roads, although with no sidewalks. There doesn’t seem to be any buildimg codes, and the populace is largely welfare recipients, drug users mixed in with the odd horse ranch and chicken farm. It has a rural feel in a suburban area.

    I mention this, because it’s much more possible in a neighborhood like this to be anonymous, or to in fact hide from view. The mosque is on a side street well away from regular traffic.

    I just find it a rather odd location for any congregation. In the year’s time I lived there, I never knew it existed.

  374. 374
    George Edwards says:

    JJ: “Get your act together George, You argue against objective right and wrongs and then you betray yourself by using the term “Evil” which implies objective right and wrong.”

    Scare Quotes: “quotation marks placed around a word or phrase to signal that a term is being used in a nonstandard, ironic, or otherwise special sense.” [Wiki]

    Example: Jack Jones is very “intelligent”, and always provides “informative” and “mature” comments whenever he has a discussion with someone he disagrees with. In this respect he is a very “special” person.

    It’s always “informative” talking to you, Jack

  375. 375
    George Edwards says:

    KF, since you think that civilian marshals are so critical to our defense, I am sure that you have recommended this to the authorities on your island, on Jamaica, and in the US. What was their response?

  376. 376

    GE,

    Quotation marks around the word “evil” following the word “term” distinguishes it as a term in the same way I just distinguished it as a word. It has nothing to do with scare tactics; it’s standard English grammar.

    Thus, the term “evil,” and not evil itself, becomes the direct object. The term “evil” (direct object) receives the action (verb: using) by the subject (you). See how that works?

  377. 377
    kairosfocus says:

    GE, The Caribbean islands don’t face the same threat (though we are targetted . . . the Dawah and agents of influence plus jihad recruiters). The circumstances of the USA make civilian marshals a reasonable option, and I am sure relevant authorities scan the web enough that any needed pickup will happen. Besides, the likely way forward is through the private sector, as discussed above. On that front, through security companies and island/ special constables something similar already happens in the Caribbean, for different reasons. KF

  378. 378
    George Edwards says:

    CY: “GE,

    Quotation marks around the word “evil” following the word “term” distinguishes it as a term in the same way I just distinguished it as a word. It has nothing to do with scare tactics; it’s standard English grammar.

    Thus, the term “evil,” and not evil itself, becomes the direct object. The term “evil” (direct object) receives the action (verb: using) by the subject (you). See how that works?”

    Really? JJ was the one who put the word “term” in front of the word “evil”, Not me. Please pay attention.

    I specifically put scare quotes around “evil” in my original comment. Jack Jones used his “considerable intellect” to assume that I was using it in the biblical sense.

    You are obviously “astute” and… Damn, I can’t keep up this farce.

    Jack jumped to a stupid conclusion that he thought was a show stopper. You have attempted to pile on, for reasons only you can explain. If you want to make hay with my use of the word “evil” (presented in big scare quotes) be my guest. But I know that you are much smarter than Jack. My cat is.

  379. 379
    George Edwards says:

    KF: “ The circumstances of the USA make civilian marshals a reasonable option, and I am sure relevant authorities scan the web enough that any needed pickup will happen.”

    Thank you for the biggest laugh I have had in years. I admit to having a fairly big ego, but to think that the US (or your tiny island government) takes your ideas seriously is seriously delusional.

    I apologize for being this direct, but I thought a serious corrective was warranted

  380. 380
    Jack Jones says:

    @378

    “Jack jumped to a stupid conclusion”

    So claims the walking contradiction George.

    “that he thought was a show stopper. ”

    And yet you cannot explain your contradiction.

    You say to KF “Thank you for the biggest laugh I have had in years.”

    You laugh like a fool at what you do not understand.

    1. You are the fool that denies objective right and wrong and then claims something is Evil.

    2. CY had to explain to you the use of quotation marks as it is over your head.

    You really have no grounds to scoff at KF.

    You are too short for the ride.

  381. 381
    Jack Jones says:

    @376

    “it’s standard English grammar. ”

    George is so simple that he cannot get that.

    George is very slow.

    He is happy to see the decline of Christianity in Canada and yet acts as an apologist for Islam.

    He does not understand the use of quotation marks and you had to break it down for him.

    The guy argues against objective right and wrong then starts going on about things being “Evil”

    When his stupidity was exposed then he lied and said “Jack Jones used his “considerable intellect” to assume that I was using it in the biblical sense. ”

    I made no mention of the Bible, If the Bible is removed from the discussion then he is still assuming a correct moral standard of how things should be and that is not consistent with his evolutionary faith or consistent with his rejection of objective right and wrong.

    That is some serious stupidity from the walking contradiction called George.

  382. 382
    George Edwards says:

    JJ: “1. You are the fool that denies objective right and wrong and then claims something is Evil.”

    Yup. You with your “superior intelligence” have me dead to rights. Congratulations on your “victory”. We are all in “awe” of your “brilliance”. You are so “special”.

  383. 383
    Jack Jones says:

    @382

    “yup”

    Are you a Hick?

    Maybe that is why you have shown such stupidity.

    Your poor cat must be starving to death because you do not even know how to open a tin of cat food.

    hahaha

    Ladies and Gentlemen

    George’s excuse is that he doesn’t really mean Evil as in Immoral actions.

    He is trying to say that he believes in Evil as “subjective objective right and wrong”

    hahahaha

  384. 384
    George Edwards says:

    JJ: “Your poor cat must be starving to death because you do not even know how to open a tin of cat food.”

    Was never very fond of cats. I prefer the critters in my reef tank.

    But I do have a broken toaster if you want to earn an honest dollar for repairing it.

  385. 385
    Jack Jones says:

    George’s defense of the Islamification of the West is that it is not going to stop Islamic terrorism happening.

    hahahahaha

    Because we see Islamic terrorism in the world then George defends the policy of flooding western countries with Muslims.

    hahaha

    Using George’s logic then he must not lock his car door or have a car alarm because car theft happens anyway. Same with his home, using his logic then he would not even lock the front door or close the windows when he goes out, because people are going to break into homes.

    If he had some wealthy friends then he would tell them to remove the gates and disable the security system and tell them that people are still going to get Thief’s coming into their homes. He would say that theft from peoples homes is still going to occur so why make your home as secure as you can.

    That is George Logic. hahahaha

    George is not sure that he has free will and tries to tell others they are wrong.

    That is George Logic. hahahaha

    The logic of George whose defense of the word Evil is that he doesn’t mean it in a literal sense about things that are objectively wrong. He really uses it to mean “subjective objective right and wrong”

    hahahahaha

  386. 386
    kairosfocus says:

    Folks,

    I am gavelling the personalities all around.

    Enough of red herrings led away to strawman caricatures laced with ad hominems and set alight to cloud, confuse, poison and polarise the atmosphere. Where BTW, it is worth noting that the Caribbean has been a source of recruitment for the first non-ME suicide bomber in Europe in the London 7/7 attack, the shoe bomber, and the Imam who was the first to be gaoled for sedition and deported to his native country in centuries. Not to mention the JFK plot and the leading militant known as El Shukrijumah — ignorant dismissiveness duly noted. The Caribbean is also the source of the missions to W Africa that helped plant the vibrant churches there that are today the bulwark against the further southern spread of Islam. Which, though that was not a factor in the thinking of those pioneer former slaves and missionaries from 1843 on, turns out to be of high geostrategic significance as Africa is precisely the likely soft continental base that the Islamists have in mind to secure their global expansion. For sure, Nehls and Eric report that they have constructed a narrative of an imagined Islamic past — echoed in the Caribbean through the Afroz theses on Maroons as Moors and slaves as moors — and have long since declared a goal to make Africa the first wholly Islamic continent.

    All, to be lost in the mocking laugh, I suppose, along with the cynical dismissal of the Christian faith and its foundational ethical theism. Never mind that after centuries of debate, there is only one serious candidate IS to ground OUGHT: the inherently good creator God, a necessary and maximally great being worthy of loyalty and the reasonable service of doing the good in accord with our nature.

    Provine’s inadvertent admissions make a stunning contrast:

    Naturalistic evolution has clear consequences that Charles Darwin understood perfectly. 1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent . . . .

    The first 4 implications are so obvious to modern naturalistic evolutionists that I will spend little time defending them. Human free will, however, is another matter. Even evolutionists have trouble swallowing that implication. I will argue that humans are locally determined systems that make choices. They have, however, no free will [–> without responsible freedom, mind, reason and morality alike disintegrate into grand delusion, hence self-referential incoherence and self-refutation. But that does not make such fallacies any less effective in the hands of clever manipulators] . . . [1998 Darwin Day Keynote Address, U of Tenn — and yes, that is significant i/l/o the Scopes Trial, 1925]

    (AND GE, YOUR EARLY CYNICAL GAMBIT TO TRY TO DEFLECT THE EXPOSURE OF THE HABITUAL RESORT TO THE TRIFECTA FALLACY OF DISTRACT, DISTORT DENIGRATE, STANDS EXPOSED FOR ITS INTELLECTUAL AND MORAL BANKRUPTCY.)

    I particularly note how this tactic has been used in response to a geostrategic analysis of the challenge of Islam.

    I have put that analysis where I can add in a few pics: http://kairosfocus.blogspot.co.....ge-of.html

    I have already linked the key captured documents.

    It is noteworthy that objectors, obviously coming from the circle of anti_ID sites, have shown through this thread just how unresponsive they are to facts, evidence and reason, starting with the issue of the gap between Islam and Islamism as presented and as can be shown from relevant history, documents etc.

    The issue of jihad by bands and the need for a 10-second rather than 10 – 30+ minute response has never been cogently faced, and it remains so that under small attack unit circumstances that local units of a civilian marshal corps that takes a few leaves from the Swiss model of an armed citizenry, are worth reflecting on. Especially by way of contrast with the grand red herring exercise to disarm the public.

    In the case of the USA, such disarmament is credibly infeasible and liable to provoke chaos in response on very sobering history and linked constitutional law and principles. The proposed cure is manifestly far worse than the disease. The implication is that those who put it up or go far and wide on the Internet and elsewhere in the RW to carry it forth as foot soldiers of the agenda, either are utterly ignorant and caught up in a march of folly they have not thought through, or else we are dealing with cynical and disqualifyingly reckless polarisation in an election cycle.

    That issue was never reasonably responded to.

    We here have a pretty direct illustration of the unresponsiveness of the circle of objectors to substance of fact-logic and to information that should have opened their eyes. (I am amazed, though I guess I should have cynically expected such, that a geostrategic analysis in outline was not responded to.)

    In the meanwhile, we have continued to find disturbing news on the SB attack, especially with the kind ongoing support of CY, a resident of the city.

    That is a service worth supporting.

    KF

  387. 387
    George Edwards says:

    JJ: “Using George’s logic then he must not lock his car door or have a car alarm because car theft happens anyway. Same with his home, If his house was secure as it possibly could be then using his logic then he would not even lock the front door or close the windows when he goes out, because people are going to break into homes.”

    In fact, I don’t lock the doors on my house or my car. Fifty seven years and I have never been robbed. And I have always lived in large urban areas.

    If he had some wealthy friends then he would tell them to remove the gates and the security and tell them that people are still going to get Burglar’s coming into their homes.

    You have obviously never been to Canada. We have very few gated communities. I have several wealthy friends and none of them have gates or security systems.

    George is not sure that he has free will and tries to tell others they are wrong.”

    The “Devil” made me do it.

    The logic of George whose defense of the word Evil is that he doesn’t mean it in a literal sense about things that are objectively wrong.”

    In this statement Jack is:

    1) lying
    2) misrepresenting the facts
    3) baring false witness
    4) all of the above

    Tune in tomorrow for the correct answer.

  388. 388
    kairosfocus says:

    PS: Let us note, the evidence points to roots that are 40 years deep now.

  389. 389
    kairosfocus says:

    JJ and GE I am gavelling the side debates. KF

  390. 390
  391. 391
    daveS says:

    KF,

    Speaking of red herrings, who is suggesting disarming the American public to the extent that chaos would ensue? I don’t think any substantial change in gun regulation is possible for the forseeable future.

  392. 392

    KF,

    It seems political correctness all around enabled the shooting, from DHS to the Redlands neighbor, to the media narratives and gun control lobby. I wonder if we can really survive another year of this.

  393. 393
    George Edwards says:

    KF, I agree with DaveS. I think I have been the most vocal about gun control (at least since Kenneth Hughs mysteriously disappeared), but at no time was I advocating for disarming the US. You can’t put the genie back in the bottle. Gun control does not mean gun confiscation.

  394. 394
    Brent says:

    ds,

    I would like to ask you why it is pertinent to the discussion as to whether KF has ever fired a gun. From all I’ve read I just don’t see how answering either yes or no matters. Or am I wrong?

    Curious.

  395. 395
    kairosfocus says:

    DS, The gun “control”/ confiscation issue has clearly been put on the table by leading progressives, starting with the current president of the USA and other leading lights. It is quite obvious that their model is the European style one which in places like Britain has now included enshrining under false colour of law the denial of the right of self-defence; of which the question of a right or duty to keep and bear arms is a consequence. In any case, it is quite clear that for this case the initial assumption was that oh this is a mass shooting incident, to be ridden on to that end. The reluctance to acknowledge the reality that was evident within hours was telling. Indeed to have leading authorities suggesting that frequent mass shootings are a uniquely American problem in the teeth of three major Islamist terrorism linked, news making terrorist attack events . . . Paris, Mali, SB . . . shows a reality gap; one amplified by the proffered “solution” which patently boils down to progressively disarming the public and likely following the UK example of putting denial of self defence into public policy under false colours of law. And now more and more is emerging that shows that politically correct approaches have been a part of the problem for FORTY years. KF

  396. 396
    kairosfocus says:

    Brent,

    a red herring is readily led away to a strawman soaked in ad hominems and set alight to cloud, confuse, poison and polarise the atmosphere here or in the penumbra of attack sites. (Which inter alia taints a web search for the topic. That too is part of the message dominance agenda.)

    It should be manifest that i/l/o the SB incident (the shooters were in action for what, 2 minutes?) I spoke to a real problem, the need for 10-second response when SWAT teams are 10 – 30+ minutes away. Where, Bataclan and Beslan show what could happen and how fast in large soft target assemblies.

    The only reasonable solutions are based on immediate presence of effective responders. And in numbers that move well beyond what police forces can sustain while carrying out their usual range of functions.

    Thus, civilian marshals, with relevant capabilities and equipment.

    With the Swiss as a reference model to adapt, just as that model guided Israel on how it could mobilise for defence in the face of potentially overwhelming opposed numbers. As 1967 and 73 demonstrated, after which the Arabs shifted strategies away from conventional invasion. And indeed the current struggles can be seen as expansion of the attempt to destroy a Dhimmi led state in the ME into a global Islamist push; across the 1970’s.

    The Swiss model shows my emphasis is not so much the right of personal defence but the duty of common defence. Where the state and the people have joint and complementary obligations in defence of the civil peace of justice.

    One expression is the civilian marshals as organised first responders.

    The reference made to PDWs as first level of arming such marshals (not 9 mm pistols) shows that I am concerned on terrorist access to armour. These weapons are designed to be super-compact and use rounds capable of punching through armour. I guess the FN90 is iconic.

    Reference to the Grendel 6.5 mm modern cartridge designed for the AR-15 type family of weapons and extending the effective range to up to 1200 m [addressing a range and kinetic energy problem of that family in the typical carbine type versions], to the bullpup general design, to low mag scopes and standard [i.e. Pickatinny] rails and the Tavor as reference platform should show that there is some specific knowledge behind what I have suggested. The Tavor of course synthesises several lines of development (on both the AK47-Galil family and the AR15 family, with infusions from what we could call the bullpup movement); that gives high reliability, compact form factor and high accuracy, with ready adaptation to longer range shooting if that becomes necessary.

    I should note that the 6.5 – 7 mm bullet class likely would have been a better balance for a standard round than what actually emerged due to institutional factors in the 1950’s and 60’s, the NATO 7.62×51 and the 5.56×45. The Grendel is the current main representative of that balance.

    Likewise, the shift to an intermediate round and the assault rifle as a better solution for the battlefield than both the .30 calibre bolt action type rifle and the pistol calibre sub-machine gun, dates back to the 2nd world war and the MP44 Sturmgewehr = Assault Rifle. The point being that a full rifle cartridge was typically uncontrollable on full automatic, and the majority of engagements were within 300 m. But recent developments are forcing a revisit, and going back to the range of round that I have noted.

    Going beyond, in zones targetted more for jihad than dawah, there is clear documentation of a global subjugation 100 year plan since 1982, and from 1991 of the settlement jihad strategy which involves front organisations, infiltration of agents of influence but also clearly the creation of settlement enclaves that create micro states within states that serve as bases for razzias and assassin cult attacks. The Paris attack makes this plain, and the fact that France is listed with 751 no go zones and that such are emerging in other places, should give pause. As should the pattern of Mosque based and online radicalisation.

    The enclaves must be reclaimed for policing, including by surging backed up by the national guard etc option.

    Such lawless no go zone, gangster/militant gunman dominated enclaves are violations of the civil peace of justice.

    To restore it, they must be broken, and the physical and digital pipelines that feed in militants must be managed to cut off the flow of terrorists.

    I have said little about the digitalised information and influence battlespace other than to lay out how unwelcome truths need to be reckoned with, drawing out typical tactics of dismissal and attempted message dominance for the politically correct narratives. Notice, in response to the earlier wave of dismissive rhetoric, I put up a challenge on knowing background, which it was obvious that none of the objectors could address cogently. Indeed it is likely that that failure led to the second wave of attempts to personalise and polarise.

    Alinsky agit prop linked to cultural marxist strategies for undermining Christianity-influenced western civilisation. Which the assorted atheist activists and lab coat clad evolutionary materialists, perverts of all sorts etc will too often support.

    By the very example of this thread, then, we see the pattern of diversion, distortion and denigration intended to trigger polarisation and dismissal. Manipulators, enablers, talking point parrots and the useful indoctrinated. In many cases, such is backed up by the further triad associated with the SJW: speaking in disregard to duties of care to truth and fairness, doubling down when challenged, denigratory projections.

    There is a message dominance strategy intended to manipulate the Overton Window of socially acceptable range of opinion — i.e. political correctness in the teeth of evident reality — that has to be broken. In the case of the USA, ever since Tet in 1968, the gap between battlefield victory and manipulated conventional wisdom on the home front has consistently led to unwillingness to stay the course in the face of a long term challenge. One consequence has been premature withdrawals, abandonment and betrayal of allies on the ground in pivotal areas.

    Homefront defeat by exhaustion, manipulated through message dominance in institutions of influence.

    Indeed by the late 1970’s, the USA was well on the way to losing the Cold War, of which my native homeland happened to be a small front. (Notice, too, the attempt to make that homeland into a point for dismissive attitude instead of realising that it would have given a base of experience to understand agit prop and insurgencies in a polarised society. Let me just say that at the time of the collapse of the USSR, the Russians actually sent a team to make a public apology for what they had done. Likewise, the persistent attacks on UD over the years inadvertently inform us that the objectors realise that we have an influential reach, where e.g the broader Discovery Institute is an obvious case in point. That is why they have been trying aggressive dominance tactics instead of simply ignoring a soapbox in an empty wilderness.)

    What happened instead is that the ineptitude of a progressivist president brought the then much derided figure, Ronald Reagan, to power. With Thatcher who came to power in 1979, he forged the coalition of global leadership that shattered the moral, message dominance agenda of the Marxists, turned the tide economically [never mind his macroeconomic blunders] and won the Cold War. The Polish revival and impact of a Polish Pope should not be underestimated — a point underscored through an assassination attempt that was likely to have been Combloc backed, via Bulgarian intel IIRC.

    It is against that backdrop that yesterday, I decided to put up an outline geostrategic analysis, drawing on Mackinder, Mahan et al. The Islamist surge is a rimlands based, continental strategy, oil resource empowered, global dominance thrust.

    The logic of that is that soft target continental resources are needed to back a thrust, which needs to build up overwhelming military power and naval might.

    Mackinder’s insight was the transforming impact of land communications breakthroughs of C19, allowing rails (and telegraph then other comms networks) to efficiently harness continental resources to expansionist autocratic or oligarchic agendas. He was focussed on the Eurasian heartland thus the German and Russian problems that dominated C20. However there were hints of other potential heartlands, particularly Africa. History tells us that harnessing South America catapulted Spain into global power, India gave Britain a strong power base, and North America, the USA.

    Mahan has convincingly shown that sea power working through maritime strategies has often successfully defeated a continental strategy.

    All these need adaptation to C21 circumstances, but it is clear that the defeat of Islamism while guiding China to a less dangerous path, is a major challenge. For China, the key observation is that it is moving to the 20+% Christian presence tipping point that on historical cases is civilisationally transforming. Similarly for the past 100 years a Southern Christian reformation/transformation has been in accelerating progress.

    These trends all point to Africa as the continent of decision. With Africa’s extensions in the Americas as also significant and the land bridge between Africa and the ME as also a flashpoint, especially given the importance of the Nile valley as a corridor to the African heartland that bypasses the Sahara. Indeed, Jerusalem will be a burdensome stone.

    So, now, you see my response to the distractors: move up to the next level.

    If they cannot address it and instead continue the distraction, distortion, denigration game, that speaks volumes.

    KF

  397. 397
  398. 398
    Brent says:

    KF,

    You laid out a lot of really good points. Hopefully people can get a better understanding of where you are coming from.

    But . . .

    You said:

    . . . pattern of Mosque based and online radicalisation.

    I’m wondering what you mean by “radicalization”. Who is it that is being “radicalized”? This ties into what you asked if I might elaborate on above.

    If we cannot get this part straight, then we may be doomed. ISLAM is inherently radical. Therefore, Muslims are radicalized! As I said, no apologies. There are many innocent Muslims who are caught up in this through no fault of their own. Some of them — and perhaps very many of them — will be killed. That is a tragedy. But while I wait for the usual suspects to come in and call me names for condoning action that will result in innocents dying — I remind them that . . . innocents are ALREADY dying! Or haven’t you noticed??? And would I be being too mean to now ask on top of that why it is that Muslim innocents are of MORE value than U.S., French, British . . . (the list would be too long, sorry) etc. innocents??? Or is that one of the questions that we are not allowed to ask? Probably, huh.

    If we don’t start seeing it like this, then we are continuing to display a fatal weakness. You cannot rationally separate violence and wanton murder from Islam. It is completely and thoroughly foundational. If we continue to try to be nice to Islam and Muslims just because it has a (comparatively minuscule) religious component, we will fail to stop jihad. Until someone wakes up and says, “Wait! This is one “religion” that really does warrant discrimination. Discrimination until elimination, in fact,” then we will fail to stop jihad. The military and even terrorism fronts of jihad may wane for a time, but we’ll never win the war. And this war needs to be won.

    And I have trouble taking courage after reading what you put very well about the disparity between battlefield victory and conventional wisdom and how that has played out from Viet Nam onward to today. Discouraging indeed.

  399. 399
    kairosfocus says:

    Brent,

    de facto, and in many times and places there has been a moderating tendency. This simply reflects human nature.

    There is even a debate in the founding corpus where the immediate followers were reluctant to go on with Mohammed’s militancy and of course he has a revelation to “correct” them.

    The result is that there is an inherent deep tension in Islam that tends to be settled by the balance of power. Unfortunately the foundational corpus and history are on the side of pretty radical and ruthless behaviour so when radical factions seem feasible, there is a surge of radicalism and violence. And at all times, being a dhimmi is a very dangerous state.

    The answer is, that other states must be vigilant and should work with moderating factions to keep a reasonable degree of stability.

    We have to wake up and smell the reality of the day.

    And realise we have a long, hard fight that will be full of bad news days. But id=f we do not break the Islamist thrust and undo the blunders of the past several years, we will be facing a much stiffer fight at much longer odds.

    Africa below the Sahara must be held. The Maghreb must be moderated, Egypt must not be radicalised and the peace with Israel, cold though it be is in everyone’s interest.

    Israel is legitimate and must be held.

    Helping Gulf states continue under Western Maritime protection as over the past 300 or so years is pivotal.

    India guards the other limit of Islam.

    Pakistan must remain stabilised as a reluctant ally, and its nuke arsenal safeguarded.

    The Mullahs must understand that they won’t get away with their restore the Persian Empire game.

    My bet on this one is, in the end, waves of cruise Missiles from the Indian Ocean, backed by knocking out the AD systems from subs in the gulf, then aircraft — perhaps over the Caspian, to finish knocking out key infrastructure. Opposition needs to be supported, where Iran is a country of diverse regions and peoples with a Persian hard core in the mountains. Eventually, there is going to have to be a regime transition.

    One of these days the Gulf Arabs will remember the 2600 y Persian threat and will act sensibly. It is a lot cheaper and less nightmarish than the whole region going nuke.

    ISIS needs to be knocked out and the Kurds probably should gain a lot of territory at their expense, becoming autonomous zones at minimum.

    Syria needs to be brought to the table of reality and learn that the chaos must be stopped and the hidden WMD stuff coughed up.

    Some Saudi princes need to receive a Hoover type visit, as in oh, enjoyed lunch, now come over by the sideboards and let’s look under the drapes. What’s in those folders? Look. Oh, what do you want me to do? Well, you are now officially on a leash.

    But then, I guess that sort of stuff sounds hard. It is a lot less hard than the alternative.

    We face a sticky wicket, but that is what we face.

    KF

  400. 400
    Jack Jones says:

    JJ, snipped as continuation of the personalities tangents. Please. ED

  401. 401
    George Edwards says:

    KF: “a red herring is readily led away to a strawman soaked in ad hominems and set alight to cloud, confuse, poison and polarise the atmosphere here or in the penumbra of attack sites. (Which inter alia taints a web search for the topic. That too is part of the message dominance agenda.)”

    When you start your comment with this nonsense, it is obvious that you do not want any serious discussion about this issue if it disagrees with you.

    I have mentioned several objections to your civilian marshal idea a d your response is to 1) ignore it, 2) call me names or 3) “Paris”.

    I asked you a serious question that you studiously ignored. What do North American police, armed forces and government authorities think of your idea? I think that we both know the answer to this. Don’t you think that they might be more knowledgeable than you (and I) on the issue of protecting citizens?

  402. 402
    Jack Jones says:

    “In fact, I don’t lock the doors on my house or my car.”

    So you claim but we cannot verify. We can do a logical analysis of your thinking about security.

    Do you think that people leaving their car doors and windows open and leaving their front door and downstairs windows of their house open without anybody attending to either would be sensible according to the odd logic that house robberies and car thefts are going to happen anyway?

    Do you tell people that shutting their downstairs windows at night while they go up to bed is stupid because house breaks in are still going to occur?

    “I have several wealthy friends and none of them have gates or security systems.”

    I am sure they do have windows and doors that they do not leave wide open at night or when they go out and nobody is at home.

    If robberies were occurring in their Neighbourhood then would you say that it is ok for them to go out and leave their door and windows wide open because robberies are occurring anyway. Would you tell them to disable any security system they had and say it is ok just to leave everything wide open?

    “In this statement Jack is:

    1) lying
    2) misrepresenting the facts
    3) baring false witness
    4) all of the above”

    And yet you are unable to back up that claim, That’s a big fail for you George.

    “Tune in tomorrow for the correct answer.”

    The correct answer is to tighten the borders, the wrong answer is to claim that we shouldn’t tighten our borders because islamic terrorism will still occur in the world. That is crazy logic.

  403. 403
    George Edwards says:

    Sorry Jack, KF has asked us to stop sniping at each other. Please have some respect for his wishes.

  404. 404
    Jack Jones says:

    “Sorry Jack, KF has asked us to stop sniping at each other. Please have some respect for his wishes.”

    That’s not sniping George, it is pointing out bad reasoning.

    Now you are most welcome to leave your house door open and your windows open and at the same time, go out with your home unattended because robberies are occurring anyway.

    You are welcome to follow through on that odd logic.

  405. 405
    kairosfocus says:

    GE,

    there is a definite problem as noted with the resort to rhetoric of distraction, distortion and denigration.

    On the substantial matter it is clear that only something that mobilises citizens already there in a responsible way can meet the need for response in seconds when police SWAT teams are 10 – 30+ minutes away. The best solution is to follow the Swiss model and adapt it, to address duty of collective self defense.

    Not recommended, what is emerging in Sweden as we speak: http://www.gatestoneinstitute......en-anarchy

    In short, the issue is a live one.

    KF

  406. 406
    kairosfocus says:

    JJ and GE: Address tone please. Patience is limited. KF

  407. 407
    George Edwards says:

    KF: “JJ and GE: Address tone please. Patience is limited. KF”

    Please note that my response to JJ was to state that you had requested an end to the sniping and asked him to respect your wishes. What “tone” (from me) were you referring to?

  408. 408
    kairosfocus says:

    F/N: Khameni of Iran’s book on how to destroy Israel and the USA: http://irantruth.org/exclusive.....ca-israel/

    Remember, this is the principal leader of Iran, which is the main sponsor of Islamist terrorism, is at Nuke threshold and is currently recreating the Persian empire.

    Quick clips:

    Mohammd Hasan Ibn Mohammad Ibrahim Gilani, one of these scholars, who in his own time had experienced an issue of occupation, as the Israeli-Palestine issue, emphasizes Jihad as a mandatory Islamic duty on Muslims’ shoulders. He states, “If the people of darkness and blasphemy attack Muslims’ lands and try to establish a non-Islamic political system in that land [–> any land captured by muslims is deemed permanently muslim and any non Islamic polity is deemed a target: Israel, Spain, Sicily, Much of E Europe, Africa per claims the Africans were Muslim, and of course the Caribbeabn, Brazil etc] , jihad becomes a compulsory religious duty for all Muslims who are able to use a weapon. Sheikh Mohammad Reza Hamedani, who lived in 19th century, in his book, Trqib Ul Musliemin Ela Difa Ul Moshrekin [Encouraging Muslims to resist non-Muslims] expressly writes, “ The purpose of jihad is to preserve the seed of Islam and granting Islam prosperity and superiority. Until reaching that goal, the duty of jihad is compulsory.” [–> indirect but Jihad is a primary duty until the world is conquered] . . . .

    Regarding selling Palestine land to Jews and its Islamic ruling about these types of transactions, Kashif al Quta states, “Don’t you even realize that selling land to the Jews in general and being involved in the transaction as agents or the like is tantamount to fighting against Allah and his prophet and destroying the religion of Islam? Those who participate in such transaction are out of the religion and consequently infidels. Do not do business with those who are involved in such transactions. Do not marry them. When they die, do not let them to be buried in Muslims’ cemeteries. You should make a list of apostates, mention their names in there, and publicize it.” [Note: Being recognized apostate allows Muslim to kill the person, make his wives and children slave, and appropriate his property.] . . . .

    In the 1960s, Imam Khomeini started his transparent and relentless movement, which played a pivotal role in the realm of politics and the establishment of a new wave called “Islamic Awakening.” Islamic awakening in Iran and in the Islamic world aimed to first topple the Pahlavi regime and replace it with an Islamic republic system and second, to wage Jihad in the region against Zionism in an effort to emancipate Palestine. Globally, the movement is going to confront the United States as the symbol of injustice. In one sentence, Imam Khomeini’s purpose of struggle is to emancipate Iran and the Islamic world from the superpowers’ bondage, restore honor to Islam, and establish an Islamic government based on Islamic principles.

    With persistence and honesty, Imam Khomeini raised the flag of the emancipation of Quds and Palestine. The chain of resistance against Zionists is currently more evolved. Today, the resistance line starts from Iran and covers Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Gaza, West Bank, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Sudan, Yemen, Bahrain, Pakistan, and Afghanistan. This new wave of Islamic awakening, which was initiated by Imam Khomeini, is now stronger than ever. Cutting the hand of the United States from Islamic countries, establishing Islamic government and restoring Islamic values, and emancipating the whole of Palestine are our objectives . . . . For us, [the liberation of Jerusalem] Quds and Palestine are very significant and splendid issues. Today [Quds Day] is when all the oppressed people armed with the spirit of faith and reliance on Allah would break the back of all unjust superpowers, the Imperialism of the United States and its Zionist servants. We should not be satisfied with what we have [the Islamic Revolution] within our borders; we should not think we are done. Until this stinky wound and infected gland called “the Israeli Government” is in the heart of Islamic territories, we cannot feel we have won.

    From the beginning of the Islamic Revolution in Iran to the present time, Palestine remains a burning issue for the Muslims of the world. The centrality of Palestine for the leadership of the Islamic Republic of Iran and the Muslim world is undeniable . . . .

    Speech to the Iranian Military’s Joint Chiefs of Staff (June 30, 1991).

    Our position against Israel is, as always: Israel is a malignant cancer gland that needs to be uprooted. In contrast to what shallow people believe, it is not impossible to defeat Israel and the United States. Superpowers have come and gone throughout history. Materialistic powers are neither everlasting nor infinite. Yesterday, there was a power called the Soviet Union. It was one of the superpowers, but it no longer exists. A similar historical contemporary change is still before us . . .

    Could not be plainer.

    KF

  409. 409
    George Edwards says:

    KF: “there is a definite problem as noted with the resort to rhetoric of distraction, distortion and denigration.”

    I agree. And I wish that you would stop it. But since this is your thread, I accept that you have the right to continue as you have. 🙂

    On the substantial matter it is clear that only something that mobilises citizens already there in a responsible way can meet the need for response in seconds when police SWAT teams are 10 – 30+ minutes away.”

    So, what you are saying is that the opinion of the police, armed forces, and governments of the countries in which you want to set up a civilian marshal system are of no importance. Or have you forgotten my question? Again.

  410. 410
    kairosfocus says:

    Note: Threat against school districts, LA closes for day: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/s.....5-16-58-54 Of course raising the background noise level degrades ability to recognise and respond to real threats. A classic example was the German Channel Dash for capital ships in WW II, which used confusion to degrade ability of the British radar operators to spot the movement until it was too late. KF

  411. 411
    kairosfocus says:

    GE, the turnabout projection tactic, fails. We all know what repeatedly happened above. KF

  412. 412
    George Edwards says:

    KF: “GE, the turnabout projection tactic, fails. We all know what repeatedly happened above. KF”

    Yes. You avoided/evaded my question. Why are you so afraid to answer it? Here, I will repeat it for you in case you have forgotten it.

    What is the opinion of the police, armed forces and governments of the countries that you want to introduce civilian marshals in?

    It is a simple question. And we both know the answer.

    With regard to the LA school closures, this is exactly what I was cautioning against. This was almost certainly the result of a sick school kid prank. LA over-reacted and New York took the rational approach. They examined the email and quickly realized that it was a prank. Let’s face it, a true jihadist may spell every word in the English language wrong, but they sure as hell are going to spell Allah with a capital A. If you think I am wrong, can you find me a single OP or comment where you have spelled god with a lower case g?

  413. 413
    daveS says:

    Brent,

    I would like to ask you why it is pertinent to the discussion as to whether KF has ever fired a gun.

    Not in and of itself. Training and practical experience? Definitely pertinent, IMO. That’s what I asked about in the first of that string of posts. When I got no answer, I simplified the question, asking merely if he had ever fired a gun, in hopes of getting some sort of response (to no avail, unfortunately).

  414. 414
    kairosfocus says:

    GE and DS, here we go again. And GE if you looked at the Sweden case as linked you might be surprised to see what police leaders are recommending in a deteriorating situation. The Israelis, as deeply experienced gave their answer many years ago, e.g. teachers at school have been armed, after a wave of gun attacks by terrorists in the 70s IIRC; such attacks dried up. If my explicit repeated reference to the Swiss model does not tell you that significant training, organisation and discipline would be involved (e.g. think about armed security guards) then it is obvious that there is a problem of unresponsiveness to relevant information I provided. Lastly, the logic of needing an effective response in 10 s when police SWAT teams are 10 – 30 mins out speaks for itself. KF

    PS: I add from Index Mundi, as a brief indicator (obviously to be modified to particular reasonable circumstances):

    Military service age and obligation: 19-26 years of age for male compulsory military service; 18 years of age for voluntary male and female military service; every Swiss male has to serve at least 260 days in the armed forces; conscripts receive 18 weeks of mandatory training, followed by seven 3-week intermittent recalls for training during the next 10 years (2012)

    Definition: This entry gives the required ages for voluntary or conscript military service and the length of service obligation.

    Source: CIA World Factbook – This page was last updated on June 30, 2015

  415. 415
    daveS says:

    KF,

    If my explicit repeated reference to the Swiss model does not tell you that significant training, organisation and discipline would be involved (e.g. think about armed security guards) then it is obvious that there is a problem of unresponsiveness to relevant information I provided.

    You’ve received many responses already. But I’ll play along: Can you give us an estimate of the cost of such a program, nationwide?

    Or, more modestly, how many marshals would be required to protect a city the size of Los Angeles?

    Edit: If possible, the number of FTE (full time equivalent) civilian marshals would be most convenient.

  416. 416
    George Edwards says:

    KF, I didn’t ask what the Swiss or Israeli authorities think, I asked what the authorities you are recommending this to think. In short, the US and Europe. We both no that the police, armed forces and authorities in the US would be adamantly opposed to the idea. And for very valid reasons. What may work in Swtzerland, which has not had any serious security concerns in many decades (and not because of civilian marshals), or Israel, which has a very unique situation, will not work in the US.

    You cautioned me against comparing apples and oranges with respect to the US and Canada, which have far more in common than the US and either of the other two countries, yet you insist that we can do so with your proposal. Apples and oranges KF, apples and oranges.

  417. 417
    kairosfocus says:

    PPS: More, from Wiki, on how a serious nation goes about its common defence:

    After World War II, Switzerland began building homes with 40 cm-thick concrete ceilings that might survive firebombing of the type that destroyed Hamburg and Dresden. In the 1960s they began constructing radiation and blast shelters that could survive one to three bars of pressure from a nuclear explosion.[36] Building codes require blast shelters, which are said to be able to accommodate 114% of the Swiss population.[37] Small towns have large underground parking garages that can serve as sealed community shelters.[36] There are also hospitals and command centres in such shelters, aimed at keeping the country running in case of emergencies. Every family or rental agency has to pay a replacement tax to support these shelters, or alternatively own a personal shelter in their place of residence;[38] many private shelters serve as wine cellars and closets.[36]
    Camouflaged cannons and fortifications near Furka Pass in the Gotthard region

    Thousands of tunnels, highways, railroads, and bridges are built with tank traps and primed with demolition charges to be used against invading forces; often, the civilian engineer who designed the bridge plans the demolition as a military officer. Hidden guns are aimed to prevent enemy forces from attempting to rebuild.[12] Permanent fortifications were established in the Alps, as bases from which to retake the fertile valleys after a potential invasion. They include underground air bases that are adjacent to normal runways; the aircraft, crew and supporting material are housed in the caverns.

    However, a significant part of these fortifications was dismantled between the 1980s and during the “Army 95” reformation. The most important fortifications are located at Saint-Maurice, Gotthard Pass area and Sargans. The fortification on the left side of the Rhône at Saint-Maurice is no longer used by the army since the beginning of the 1990s. The right side (Savatan) is still in use.

    During the Cold War the military expected that any invasion would likely come from the northeast, as the Soviet Union associated the country with NATO despite its stated neutrality.[12] The Swiss government thought that the aim of an invasion would be to control the economically important transport routes through the Swiss Alps, namely the Gotthard, the Simplon and Great St. Bernard passes, because Switzerland does not possess any significant natural resources.

    Weapons marked in bold are considered personal equipment of the soldier, who is responsible for their well-functioning and must keep them at home until the end of the military service (unless living near an external border of Switzerland).[39] Between brackets is the number of such weapons in personal equipment as of 31 January 2009.[40] Swiss Army knives are also issued, but are not considered weapons.

    Individual weapons

    Sturmgewehr 90 assault rifle (200,000)
    Sturmgewehr 57 battle rifle (2,000)
    Pistole 75 semi-automatic pistol (30,000)
    Pistole 49 semi-automatic pistol (1,000)
    Pistole 03 semi-automatic pistol (Military Police)
    Glock semi-automatic pistol (Swiss Grenadiers, ARD 10, FSK-17)
    FN Minimi
    Heckler & Koch MP5 submachinegun
    Brügger & Thomet MP9 machine pistol
    Tuma MTE 224 VA machine pistol
    Remington 870 multipurpose shotgun (known as Mehrzweckgewehr 91)
    Sako TRG-42 8.6 mm anti-personnel sniper rifle (Scharfschützengewehr 04)
    PGM Hecate II 12.7 mm anti-materiel heavy sniper rifle (Präzisionsgewehr 04)

    Crew served weapons

    MG51 machine gun
    MG 710 machine gun / MG55 (still stocked, but neither trained on nor used in rep courses; same as MG3)

    Other weapons

    Gewehraufsatz 97 40mm grenade launcher (mounted under “Sturmgewehr 90” assault rifle for grenadiers and fusiliers)
    HG 85 hand grenade
    Panzerfaust 3 shoulder-launched recoilless anti-tank weapon
    M47 Dragon anti-tank guided rocket (being phased out without replacement due to cost-intensive maintenance)

  418. 418
    kairosfocus says:

    GE, If the above is not enough, that speaks volumes. Israelis a leading target for terror and this is its response. Switzerland is a leading economy and it obviously is able to sustain that level of defence investment and expenditure. As to the US, consider that in 7 years 100 mn firearms have been purchased, with it looks like 185,000 on just the day after Thanksgiving last;