[OFFTOPIC:] The Lesson of Tonight’s Iowa Caucuses

_{William Dembski

January 3, 2008

Off Topic}

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My wife’s family is from Iowa, and we got to listen to a lot of the presidential candidates in person during our visit there this December. Here’s our daughter with two of the more successful candidates:

The lesson of tonight is that people are tired of business as usual. How far does that disaffection extend? To the uncritical teaching of Darwinian evolution?

Comments

tdean, I totally agree, I want a president that can run the country- or i should say keep it in tact for 8 years. If he is a believer in ID that is a big plus but not a necessity. I want to reiterate my point though- this country is in really weak fiscal shape because of massive spending (in the war on top of the usual) and the exportation of our labor and industry- If we loose our industry base say goodbye to the dollar and the country because the dollar is merely a medium that represents the product of our labor and services- if loose them its over real quick. Don’t believe that we cannot fall into a depression today- Economics is he dark science- people have never understood it and never will because their is too much manipulation and too many unknowns. We are teetering on the edge of critical imbalance and we have on the Dem side two leftists that are promising the world everything when we are bankrupt. This country needs fiscal responsibility quick. All this stuff about Bush and fascism is just a distraction from the tsunami that is brewing just up ahead. I’m not being draconian here either- its happened before in a much smaller and more manageable world - now we are in the age of “Globalism” and the US has been throwing the party for 10 + years thanks to NAFTA and the like- our treat. To be weakly witty I remind all of you IDers that there is NO FREE LUNCH. Especially on the backs of slave labor courtesy of communist countries. Huckabee has nothing to do with ID and he cant raise enough money to win the general election against the international Democrat party and its unlimited illeagal campaign contributions.Frost122585_{January 4, 2008
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Guliani will win all the debates. There have been several debates already and he has yet to win one.tribune7_{January 4, 2008
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Annotation: Just viewed The McLaughlin Report on PBS. The final question raised by McLaughlin, "Will the new atheism gain notoriety in the future"? Pundits said yes -- all of them. McLaughlin said "NO. The reason is from the Intelligent Design movement." Congratulations, Dr. Dembski. Ms. O'Leary, ( et al ) for your pursuit of evidence.toc_{January 4, 2008
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Also, loosely, any form of right-wing authoritarianism.” rockyr, the closest thing to an advocate of authoritarianism in this race is Mrs. Clinton. Which brings us to an interesting point w/regard to the origin of the adjective here, "right wing", namely that it is rooted in the seating arrangement of the French Estates-General in 1789 in which the nobility sat to the right of the president. The nobility, of course, believed that power was their due through marriage and heredity. That also applies to Mrs. Clinton and not a bit to the Huck. :-)tribune7_{January 4, 2008
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“Fascism: The principles and organization of Fascists. Also, loosely, any form of right-wing authoritarianism." I am sorry this is wrong. Fascism as practiced by Mussolini and Hitler were left wing socialist governments and thus examples of left-wing authoritarianism. Yes they were anti communist but so what. Lenin murdered tens of thousands of socialists at the beginning of the revolution. He wasn't choosy. Communists and Fascists were two leftist ideologies competing with each other. Were there any other fascist governments? Probably not but many include Franco in Spain because he was at the same time and was also anti communist but not of the same flavor as Hitler and Mussolini. People have a tendency to apply the term to anything they don't like but if you are going to use the term then use it as it was practiced in Italy and Germany, left-wing authoritarianism. There were no governments ever more authoritarian and oppressive than the communist governments but yet the term does not apply there. Why? It should if one want to use the authoritarian nature as an example for fascist. But it doesn't because the left like to use the term as they want to manipulate your thinking and most never question just what it actually means. Do we understand what right wing means? If you think it refers to conservatives then you are being manipulated just as the general public is being manipulated by the word evolution.jerry_{January 4, 2008
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OT... Atom, During the holidays while looking up some old YES music(Time and a Word) and Rick Wakeman on youtube, I eventually made my way to singer Anderson's site. I immediately thought about your work. http://www.jonanderson.com/news.html Anderson is looking for Rap Producers for a project he's working on. You do "produce" much of your own work, yes? It may be outside your scope or interest. And Jon Anderson's original work outside of YES can be somewhat spacey, new age, but he is always surrounding himself by great talent(Steve Howe, Rick Wakeman, Squire, etc). It may not be your "cup of tea" but thought I'd give you the heads up if you're interested. Artist routinely mix different styles. You never know what may happen as paths cross.Michaels7_{January 4, 2008
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A guess: The coasts will determine who goes to battle in 2008. Money always wins nominations; when the funds run out campaign people, who consider themselves loyal idealists, flee like rodents on a sinking ship. Money -vs- meaning. Iowa tests middle America, but Hillary will be facing Guliani after the '08 conventions, when the coastal financiers have their say. Guliani will win all the debates. Superior intellectual clarification and arguement will not win the election. Ohio, Missouri, Florida et al, as usual, will determine the outcome. It's then a toss-up. How did GWB win in '04? It was fear. The one who connects to the fear of the average man and woman wins the election. - it's the money stupid - I feel your pain… The real players aren't determined in the heartland, but by the monied players on the coasts who have the greatest stakes in the game. Our next President will prevail because he or she will capitalize on the nation's fears. And so goes the Darwinian v ID debate. Those who could stand will not stand because stakes are too high. Most fear rejection and poverty. As Paul Tournier wrote in THE MEANING OF PERSONS (as I recall), "We are all so desperately afraid."toc_{January 4, 2008
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idnet.com.au wrote:
Obama will win. He has the charisma. ID will win because of the evidence. Change is inevitable.
Let's hope change comes sooner than later. :)Atom_{January 4, 2008
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Obama will win. He has the charisma. ID will win because of the evidence. Change is inevitable.idnet.com.au_{January 4, 2008
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God's Ipod, I've read plenty on Hitler's rise. Hitler was a total national socialist. He wanted government control of the industries and equal division of fruits to member of the Aryan race. America is little like Nazi Germany, despite how many times Marxists have made that there line of attack.jjcassidy_{January 4, 2008
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Tribune, I argree that calling somebody like Huckabee a fascist, without a proper explanation of what was meant by the choice of such a tainted and offensive word, as we underdstand it today, is offensive and preposterous. On the other hand, the meaning of "fascism" is quite complex, and a simple reference by a dictionary will not do justice to the word. Strictly speaking, according to the arguably most prestigious Oxford Dictionary, "Fascism: The principles and organization of Fascists. Also, loosely, any form of right-wing authoritarianism." one could use the word to mean "any form of right-wing authoritarianism". Also according to the DRAFT ADDITIONS MARCH 2006, Fascism means: depreciative (chiefly Brit.). In extended use (usu. with preceding modifying word): the advocacy of a particular viewpoint or practice in a manner perceived as intolerant or authoritarian. -- again, not a nice comparison. Ipod's reference to the 14 points of fascism is a rather convoluted nonsense, where half of the criteria don't really apply to the USA, but I would like to point out that the key defining feature of the original Italian fascism was its anti-communist character and purpose. This is reflected even in to the Oxford Dictionary under the word "fascist": "One of a body of Italian nationalists, which was organized in 1919 to oppose communism in Italy, and, as the partito nazionale fascista, under the leadership of Benito Mussolini (1883-1945), controlled that country from 1922 to 1943; also transf. applied to the members of similar organizations in other countries. Also, a person having Fascist sympathies or convictions; (loosely) a person of right-wing authoritarian views." It was its anti-communism that made fascism popular all-over Europe, gaining approval of many intellectuals. Fascism only later showed its ugly head, or heads, and, unfortunately, as it usually happens in history, many well-meaning anti-communists, and otherwise decent people, were drawn with the movement until it was too late. And, on an on-topic note, Hitler's fascism or nazism, quite different from the original Italian fascism, was an evolution based ideology which drew heavily on Darwinism and eugenics.rockyr_{January 4, 2008
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I think Huckabee would be more likely to support Intelligent Design then Obama; however I think he would do so for all the wrong reasons. I definitely think Obama is a better choice. It seems to me you can view the role of government based on two aspects: responsibility and authority. A traditional Republican (economic conservative) goes for small responsibility and small authority. A traditional Democrat (liberals) goes for big resposnisiblity and big authority. In my mind the best combination is one which takes the most responsibility while exercising the least authority. So Democrat vs Republican of the past was which side is more important taking responsibility or reducing authority, and to what degree. This brings us to the new form of Republicans (social conservatives). It seems to me (and if you use Bush as an example they are) that this group wants the worst form of government, on which maximizes authority while avoiding any responsibility. Personally I don't care if your for or against the Iraq war, in either case it was badly mishandled and poorly planned. Its a difficult issue as to what cost in money and lives we are willing to pay for another nations liberty; however its not difficult to see that what we are mostly paying for is incompetence. Bush is a bit of a fascist, he acts as though the executive branch is not subject to the law. Authorizing warrant-less wiretaps is not a minor issue, its a direct violation of one of the constitutional checks on executive authority. Also, just as a rose by any other name would smell as sweet; torture no matter what you call it (or call the people you subject to it) is still against the Geneva convention, illegal, unconstitutional, and in a basic moral sense a crime against humanity. It makes me sick to see that all but one of the Republican candidates (John McCain) refuses to condemn this behavior.Alann_{January 4, 2008
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Lovely daughter, Bill. I'll pose the question you can answer only one way if your wife reads the blog: Who's she get her looks from?Semiotic 007_{January 4, 2008
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Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary has a newer revised definition of fascist: fascist \'fash-est\ n or adj, often cap 1: a pejorative term used by a political leftist to describe a political conservative who is in the process of winning an argument 2: a pejorative term used by a political leftist to stop an argument that they are losing 3: a term used repeatedly and spasmodically by political leftists for no apparent reason – often correlated with Tourette Syndrome. synonyms: racist, homophobe, creationistStuartHarris_{January 4, 2008
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Is that guy to the right of Huckabee taking a picture of you, Bill? :) Quite a lovely girl! And she seems happy. That's a compliment to you and your wife. Keep up the good work!PaV_{January 4, 2008
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Frost122585, Mind you, those are not my feelings. This is what I think others are thinking, not myself. Personally, I don't think Romney is much of a threat because of his Mormon associations, given his track record.mike1962_{January 4, 2008
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Gods Ipod, If I said I have a more insightful view of the UK than you, you should rightfully laugh. You access some polemic site and now you know everything. We are too stupid here to know when we are being led down the garden path. Fascists are socialists and there is an emphasis on nationalism within this socialist message. There has only been a few fascist regimes since Mussolini coined the term in the 1920's but the term is ubiquitous. The US system is fairly far away from socialism or anything that Mussolini dreamed of, though not as far from socialism as many of us would want. George Bush has not proposed much of what could be called socialist so I fail to see what you are driving at. How can a non socialist be a fascist? He certainly does not control the media. That would be a joke. He is running the country during a time of war. So what is he actually doing to deserve the designation a fascist except for your dislike. But of course you know better than those of actually living here. Also the journal Lancet has been caught in fraud on the body count in Iraq and I believe that is a British journal. Another anti war Britain site pegs the deaths as somewhere around 85,000, Iraq has pegged it around 50,000. You are just caught up in the anybody I don't like is a fascist mode. Save the term for more realistic situations and give it up with US politics. If anyone can be accused of supporting mass indoctrination here in the US it is the left and that is where fascists sit politically. You should read about the indoctrination that goes on in US universities and these are not friendly to Bush. They are very leftist.jerry_{January 4, 2008
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mike,
And let’s not forget that the early Mormon leaders predicted that the US constitution would “hang by a thread” and that the Mormon church would somehow come gallopping in to save the day.
Well this contry at times feels like tis hanging from a thread and the way the spending is right now id be ok with Romney gallopping in and saving it from economic chaos. Romney has ballanced a state budget-in one of the biggest spending states in the nation while Hucksterbee on the other hand only knows how to spend the big bucks. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316496,00.htmlFrost122585_{January 4, 2008
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Mike c'mon man this is the irrelevance im talking about. I really think its moot to talk about the radical side of Mormonism in 1810 when we know that Romney didn't gain all of his success acting like a nut and only dealing with Mormons in a dark smoky room- I find his history easier to take than Bushes with his skull and bones and Yale/Harvard elitism. I don’t believe in conspiracy theories yet the analogy of groups here is think is relevant. Speaking as an R - I believe that we need to get over this Mormon faith thing real quick and vote as Americans if we are gonna prevent another big spending leftist form getting in office- this time equipped with a house and senate of Ds especially wit this wavy economy. Romney btw balanced Mass budget. I think that only Romney has the money and power to beat the Dems- Huckabee is to me a media creation- they say he is a breath of fresh air- Speaks to the smog the media is constantly breathing.Frost122585_{January 4, 2008
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Some of you need to look up DICTIONARY not POPULAR definitions for fascism The dictionary definiton of fascism:
1often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition 2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
study a little on Hitler’s rise to power, where he was a few years out As I look out my window right now, I see the Huckster's brown-shirts smashing the windows of a helpless Mormon shopkeeper tribune7_{January 4, 2008
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As for an Iraq body count, again, look outside of American media for answers please. American media? You think they are pro-war? The link I provided was to an Anglo-American organization, which is also not pro-war. It meshes with the UN and Iraqi government estimates. Further, the Johns Hopkins (an American University) study reported in Lancet, is rejected by the U.K. as well. And it does not indicate a million death. Huckabee is indeed the most fascist type we have running for office. We? I thought you said you weren't an American. The Huckster may be a shyster but he's not fascist. Maybe its because I’m not American that I can see what you can’t. Maybe its because you are not American that you don't understand what is going on over here. Don't trust your country's media.tribune7_{January 4, 2008
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Time and again I find that Huckabee constantly talking about religion is due primarily to always being asked about it. Watch him being interviewed and ask yourself each time who brings it up. Sometimes his faith is a legitimate issue, usually it's thrown in hoping for a crazy soundbite. For instance, even though he's spent a decade as a governor, he's constantly described as an "ex-minister" even in the by-lines under his name during debates, often completely ignoring his impressive political accomplishments. Hardly fair.rswood_{January 4, 2008
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Fross122585: And let's not forget that the early Mormon leaders predicted that the US constitution would "hang by a thread" and that the Mormon church would somehow come gallopping in to save the day. And that the "Kingdom of God" was ordained in Nauvoo IL around 1842 by Joseph Smith, where he was "crowned king." Evangelicals who know about this stuff are going to wonder what's *really* in Romney's head about all that. /pundit offmike1962_{January 4, 2008
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Nochange, i agree with you that my blog entry was a lil long- thanks for pointing that out- Look, Iraq is now for the first time EVER holding democratic elections. That means something to me and the 7 million people that went out and casted their votes in face of terrorism, violence and belligerency. Yes, it has been a difficult mess, but so was WW2 and this time maybe we helped to prevent a world war instead of sitting back and waiting for one to happen before taking action. Huckabee is not one of us I assure you all. He is a Arkansas politician in the mold of Bill Clinton. HE trashed Romney's faith comparing Mormonism loosely to satanic worship! Hardly representative of my character. lol, I mean the guy is pulling no punches. I don’t trust they guy as far as I can throw him even when he was fat. As far as Obama everyone on tv is saying this was a political earth quake for him because (you guessed it) hes black. People still think we are living in the segregated south. Everyone was predicting this possibility all the polls showed it was a good chance. And look who Obama was running against - the slick trail lawyer who always has a snicker on his face like he cant bare holding in his amusement that people are buying his bs and the evil soviet style school teacher who cant run a marriage much less a country. W-o-w, Obama got 900 votes. This country is heading towards a recession real fast and it cannot afford another big spending leftist.Frost122585_{January 4, 2008
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Fross122585: "Even though Romney is a Mormon he is still a Christian and it isn’t his fault that he was born into a Mormon family. And I don’t find it useful to judge people based upon what they claim to be their faith- you should try and understand what they believe in their hearts. To me that is far more important than going to “the right church.”" Well, the midwest is going have a hard time accepting him. Something about swearing allegience to the Mormon church in those temple ceremonies, etc. JFK was grilled about how his loyalty to Catholicism would affect his presidency. Romney has a higher hurdle here, given what the Mormon ceremonies actually requires. You better believe the So Baptists will be harping on this loudly at the right time. However, I predict Romney will play well out west where being a Mormon is virtually irrelevant (given there are so many of them in Calif, etc.) /pundit modemike1962_{January 4, 2008
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Some of you need to look up DICTIONARY not POPULAR definitions for fascism and study a little on Hitler's rise to power, where he was a few years out and were America is today. Huckabee is indeed the most fascist type we have running for office. A little research goes a long way. Maybe its because I'm not American that I can see what you can't. No offense. Here's a start for you: http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm And then continue with raw google search: http://www.google.com/search?rls=en&q=fascism+in+america As for an Iraq body count, again, look outside of American media for answers please. http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2396031.eceGods iPod_{January 4, 2008
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Correction: It looks like Saddam's kill tally included Iranian and Iraqi soldiers. The high estimate for civilian dead in his reign is 300,000.tribune7_{January 4, 2008
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Nochange. One million Iraqi dead? Where did you get that number? How many of them were killed by Americans and not their co-religionists? Dr. Dembski, I'm not sure whether I have an obligation to report you to child protection services for letting your child get so close to politicians. Reckless, very reckless. ;-)BarryA_{January 4, 2008
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Are 1 million civilian casualties worth 26 million free? Hussein certainly thought 1 million-plus civilian deaths were worth keeping 26 million enslaved, so yes. And where are you getting your 1 million figure? Michael Moore? Iraq body count gives a high of 87,00 civilian deaths due to violence since Hussein's overthrow.tribune7_{January 4, 2008
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Dr. D, you have a beautiful little girl. Just curious but did either candidate know who you were?tribune7_{January 4, 2008
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