Mystery of origin of life just deepened

I should have said, 'near-accidents', not 'accidents'. Nice of you to say those things, Jer, but I've gawn right orf writing. Axel

"Gee, science seems to be doing pretty well actually." Is this engineering or science? A question that could be asked - Where would we be if we studied design and applied it to engineering instead of evo theory. Perhaps we would be further ahead. buffalo

In fact you know, you're very lucky. These days it's much easier to not only write a book (no need to write things out by hand or use a typewriter) but to get it noticed by the public. Even if you can't get a major publisher interested there are tons of small publishers and you can even self-publish either an actual physical book or online. A friend of mine just published a Kindle book!! Jerad

I did want to be writer when I was young, but although I worked in quite a wide variety of unskilled and semi-skilled jobs, I don’t think any of them could have been described as exciting. A lot of fun joking around – some great characters, but, apparently, I’m a cerebretonic ectomorph, so I have always mostly lived inside my head.

You should really work on putting some things down on paper. It IS hard, no question. But it's fun and creative as well. I think your idea deserves more attention and you're the person to show the rest of us how it might play out.

It tickles me how pleased with themselves more outgoing youngsters seem to be to be walking down the street, chatting to a pal on their mobile phones, and more or less oblivious to passers by. Well, I’m pretty much like that without a mobile phone.

A born writer.

Anyway(s),* the last thirty years or so, despite my unadventurous temperament, have seen my life turned upside down in a manner no sane person would believe (too improbable for any kind of fiction, never mind non-fiction), with the security services of various countries showing a keen interest in me! And not always fulsomely benign, it has to be said. Just one example: a lot of accidents to frighten me. Trouble is I got hooked on the adrenalin! And as for my spiritual life, well, just totally over the top even by those standards. God’s definitely got a sense of humour of the first water. I mean I still have difficulty curbing expletives under quite minor stress!

If there is a god then s/he is a great joker!! No doubt about it. As Kurt Vonnegut said: when you look at the world you have to either laugh or cry and laughing feels better! :-) Maybe, don't scoff, you should write an autobiography. I'd say the same to Gil. A lot of people would find your story interesting and perhaps even inspiring. Jerad

I did want to be writer when I was young, but although I worked in quite a wide variety of unskilled and semi-skilled jobs, I don't think any of them could have been described as exciting. A lot of fun joking around - some great characters, but, apparently, I'm a cerebretonic ectomorph, so I have always mostly lived inside my head. It tickles me how pleased with themselves more outgoing youngsters seem to be to be walking down the street, chatting to a pal on their mobile phones, and more or less oblivious to passers by. Well, I'm pretty much like that without a mobile phone. Anyway(s),* the last thirty years or so, despite my unadventurous temperament, have seen my life turned upside down in a manner no sane person would believe (too improbable for any kind of fiction, never mind non-fiction), with the security services of various countries showing a keen interest in me! And not always fulsomely benign, it has to be said. Just one example: a lot of accidents to frighten me. Trouble is I got hooked on the adrenalin! And as for my spiritual life, well, just totally over the top even by those standards. God's definitely got a sense of humour of the first water. I mean I still have difficulty curbing expletives under quite minor stress! *according to country of origin. Axel

I think God’s got a two-horse show going for us. A holographic one, which scientists can work at, a kind of puzzle constituted of classical physics incorporating quantum physics, which I suspect might continue for a long time; and quantum physics in itself, which, I strongly suspect is close to reaching an impenetrable wall of paradoxes: the interface with the Holy Spirit. And the latter one seems to mock the classical one, not least because its contradictory revelations have been proved to the nth degree. So, as to the mismatch between the aeons, I haven’t a clue, Jer. Just my knowledge of God and my own conjectures about things generally. But I wouldn’t posit a multiverse for all the tea in China.

I agree with you about multiverses. That's gonna be a real hard sell for me IF anything actually comes out of the speculation. I'm highly dubious at this point. But hey, if someone wants to work on it, fine by me. I probably would have told a young Einstein to stop dreaming and get some work done!! :-) That is interesting! Thank you for taking the time to type that out. There's a nice 'through a glass darkly' metaphor in there somewhere. You should write a novel, explore the idea a bit more, 'flesh' it out. Seriously. We'll just have to agree to disagree on the rest I think for today anyway. Jerad

It seems QM research makes trying to fix the age of the earth impossible, unless you con focus solely on the classical (mechanistic) physics, as ultimate scientific truth. I can only focus on what I understand of QM in the broadest outline. Fortunately, the deepest truths, insofar as anyone can understand them, tend to be simply expressed verbally. The nitty-gritty of science, a whole 'nother matter. Axel

Maybe. What are yours by the way? How do you think it all ‘went down’? I think God's got a two-horse show going for us. A holographic one, which scientists can work at, a kind of puzzle constituted of classical physics incorporating quantum physics, which I suspect might continue for a long time; and quantum physics in itself, which, I strongly suspect is close to reaching an impenetrable wall of paradoxes: the interface with the Holy Spirit. And the latter one seems to mock the classical one, not least because its contradictory revelations have been proved to the nth degree. So, as to the mismatch between the aeons, I haven't a clue, Jer. Just my knowledge of God and my own conjectures about things generally. But I wouldn't posit a multiverse for all the tea in China. Someone, I believe, mentioned yesterday the social capital of well-governed Nordic countries, bequeathed them by their erstwhile Christian religion.* The same applies of course, to science, in a big way. Atheists are parasites on the scientific endeavour. Always have been. Science and its epochal paradigms were always the product of 'religious nuts'. Yes. Even Albie. Bohr once told him to stop dragging God into everything. Well, I wouldn't say, Planck was a 'religious nut', but he expressed immense contempt for atheists. That's why I described atheist science - not necessarily agnostic - as donkey-work. *One of the preferred tools for disinformation, favoured by the moguls of the corporate world and their political minions is the survey. 'The latest poll figures for those who bla bla...' Well, we are periodically treated to polls informing us of how secular and atheistic the Nordic countries are, but I remember reading a few years ago (probably several - time passes quickly when you're old) that in one of those countries, I believe Denmark, people were not exactly tithed, but taxed to some extent for the upkeep of the Lutheran churches there. The article I read was published in the largely liberal-atheist, American, online forum, Democratic Underground, but the person who posted it seemed to take the wrong message from it, missing the point, all together. He said that one of his 'interviewees' stated that, though he was an atheist, himself, he was happy to pay for the ceremonies such as baptism, marriage, funerals, etc for his family, and that most other Danes felt that way. I'm not sure if that still obtains. Anomie and chaos - entropy.. there I've said it.. a science word ... increases apace everywhere. A similar thing obtained for some decades in Germany after WWII, which was understandable, in view of the material and social destruction and chaos occasioned by the period of Nazi rule. (It was: 'Obey it or die' so the crypto-fascist monied people in the Western world have scant reason to revile the ordinary German of the time, en masse.) But when I first heard about the tithe I was shocked, thunderstruck, in fact. Yet I came to realise later that the regeneration of Christianity and the contrition widely felt by most German people, (unlike our own monied people, who touted us as simply 'the guys in the white hats' who saved the world, and who have never owned up to their fervent admiration for the fascists), propelled Germany into becoming a successful nation, economically and socially. Of course, the need for new, industrial machinery and infrastructure would have contributed, also, yet would British industrialists have gone for quality or pursued their natural, Norman inclination for cheapness and the maximum quick return, the 'fast buck'? We've seen the answer, beginning with Thatcher, who served as an admirable pawn for them, allowing, as she did, the selling off of our flagship companies and Marquee names to foreign enterprises. All the while posturing as patriotic heroes, warriors for Britain. Don' get me started. Oh. I seem to have begun... Axel

Gee, I guess Axel doesn't feel like enlightening us on his version of the origin of life. Too bad, it's probably pretty interesting actually. I don't think he's a YEC but I could be wrong. I always wonder what the gods were doing for billions of years in the OEC scenario. Just sitting around waiting to see if the latest design was gonna build a church? OH, I know! They were shooting dice!! Of course. Silly me. Jerad

Better to have sketchy reasons, even no reasons, than riotously fanciful, and demonstrably false and idiotic ones, Jerad.

Maybe. What are yours by the way? How do you think it all 'went down'?

Although, when, ‘a priori’, you insist on leaving the sometimes illuminating and sometimes mysterious ways of an omniscient, omnipotent God out of your conjectures, there’s not a whole lot else you can do is there? Good luck with that, then.

Gee, science seems to be doing pretty well actually. In the last century we went from most people using outdoor toilets, having to pump their water by hand and walking most places to ubiquitous smart mobile phones and regular air flights across continents. Life expectancy has shot up, many devastating diseases are now mere vestiges of their former selves. Lots of good things comin' out of science and research I'd say.

As someone on UD – observing the proprieties in eschewing vulgar parlance, recently put it, I believe: ‘whistling into the wind’.

Was he whistling through his teeth of undeniable truths that are supposed to be scaring some of us into submission? You gotta wonder why he uses that metaphor so much. Jerad

Better to have sketchy reasons, even no reasons, than riotously fanciful, and demonstrably false and idiotic ones, Jerad. Although, when, 'a priori', you insist on leaving the sometimes illuminating and sometimes mysterious ways of an omniscient, omnipotent God out of your conjectures, there's not a whole lot else you can do is there? Good luck with that, then. As someone on UD - observing the proprieties in eschewing vulgar parlance, recently put it, I believe: 'whistling into the wind'. Axel

Suppose you could think of reasons but the reasons are officially deemed “not science.”

And what are your reasons? I mean aside from some unknown, undetected, undefined designer did . . . something . . . at some time . . . we're not really sure. But we know those story-telling guys in their white towers are wrong. Jerad