Paul Davies on the gap between life and non-life

_{Denyse O'Leary

February 14, 2023

Origin Of Life}

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It’s a big one. Theoretical physicist, cosmologist and astrobiologist Paul Davies talks to Robert Lawrence Kuhn at Closer to Truth about the conundrums: “What is life and how did it arise from non-life? Is it as simple as the random organization of complex chemicals on the early Earth? What are the pathways whereby chemicals turned into life? Is life inevitable? Or extremely rare? What’s remarkable is how little we know. ”

A reader notes that Davies says at 37m30s: “What life makes is consistent with physics and chemistry, but is not dictated by physics and chemistry.” Well, by a process of elimination, doesn’t that leave information? Design? And how are things designed without intelligence? At this point, one can only say, Keep talking.

Comments

Jerry/14 I've read pretty much every popular publication that Paul Davies has written and interview he has given, and he is one of my intellectual "heroes," so I really don't need to argue with BA77 pulling him out of context or BarryArrington opining that he "is wrong" on OoL matters. Davies has a sense of humility rarely found in OoL "debates." And certainly not a trait found among "ID folks."chuckdarwin_{February 15, 2023
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Origenes @7, Of course I don't believe in materialism. My point is that if you don't believe in retrocausality, then you have some 'splainin' to do when it comes to the delayed choice quantum eraser experiments. My explanation is that depending on X thoughts, perspective, experimental assumption, etc., Y things occur in your experience. The spacetime attributes of those experimental results only exist in locations in your experience, not "out there" somewhere in some external spacetime continuum.William J Murray_{February 15, 2023
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why don’t you watch the 21 seasons of episodes
I certainly did not watch them all but several. That’s what led me to my conclusion about the interviewer. He was not interested in certain explanations. Aside: Why did ChuckDarwin pick out my comment to answer when he ignores most of what I and others say? We all know the reason, especially Chuck. Notice, he didn’t disagree with my assessment. Aside2: By not addressing something, is one saying “I agree” or it’s just too stupid to continue. With Chuck we know what his motivation probably is.jerry_{February 15, 2023
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Supplemental note:
Dec. 2022 - That what we now know to be physically true from special relativity, (namely that it outlines a ‘timeless’, i.e. eternal, ‘dimension of light’ that exists above this temporal dimension), would fit hand and glove with the personal testimonies of people who have had a deep heavenly NDEs is, needless to say, powerful evidence that their testimonies are, in fact, true, and that they are accurately describing the physical ‘reality’ of a higher heavenly dimension, that they experienced first hand, that really does physically exist above this temporal dimension. https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/at-mind-matters-news-are-extra-dimensions-of-the-universe-real-or-imaginary/#comment-772620 Matthew 6:33 But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
bornagain77_{February 15, 2023
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Moreover, as if that was not provocative enough, classical “sequential’ information has now ‘thermodynamically’ been shown to be "quantum-mechanically entangled with the state of an observer". Specifically, in the following 2011 paper. researchers ,,, show that when the bits (in a computer) to be deleted are quantum-mechanically entangled with the state of an observer, then the observer could even withdraw heat from the system while deleting the bits. Entanglement links the observer’s state to that of the computer in such a way that they know more about the memory than is possible in classical physics.,,, In measuring entropy, one should bear in mind that (in quantum information theory) an object does not have a certain amount of entropy per se, instead an object’s entropy is always dependent on the observer.
Quantum knowledge cools computers: New understanding of entropy – June 1, 2011 Excerpt: Recent research by a team of physicists,,, describe,,, how the deletion of data, under certain conditions, can create a cooling effect instead of generating heat. The cooling effect appears when the strange quantum phenomenon of entanglement is invoked.,,, The new study revisits Landauer’s principle for cases when the values of the bits to be deleted may be known. When the memory content is known, it should be possible to delete the bits in such a manner that it is theoretically possible to re-create them. It has previously been shown that such reversible deletion would generate no heat. In the new paper, the researchers go a step further. They show that when the bits to be deleted are quantum-mechanically entangled with the state of an observer, then the observer could even withdraw heat from the system while deleting the bits. Entanglement links the observer’s state to that of the computer in such a way that they know more about the memory than is possible in classical physics.,,, In measuring entropy, one should bear in mind that an object does not have a certain amount of entropy per se, instead an object’s entropy is always dependent on the observer. Applied to the example of deleting data, this means that if two individuals delete data in a memory and one has more knowledge of this data, she perceives the memory to have lower entropy and can then delete the memory using less energy.,,, No heat, even a cooling effect; In the case of perfect classical knowledge of a computer memory (zero entropy), deletion of the data requires in theory no energy at all. The researchers prove that “more than complete knowledge” from quantum entanglement with the memory (negative entropy) leads to deletion of the data being accompanied by removal of heat from the computer and its release as usable energy. This is the physical meaning of negative entropy. Renner emphasizes, however, “This doesn’t mean that we can develop a perpetual motion machine.” The data can only be deleted once, so there is no possibility to continue to generate energy. The process also destroys the entanglement, and it would take an input of energy to reset the system to its starting state. The equations are consistent with what’s known as the second law of thermodynamics: the idea that the entropy of the universe can never decrease. Vedral says “We’re working on the edge of the second law. If you go any further, you will break it.” http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/06/110601134300.htm
It is also important to learn that Darwinian materialists, especially with the falsification of 'hidden variables', have no causal explanation for 'non-local' quantum entanglement.
Looking beyond space and time to cope with quantum theory – 28 October 2012 Excerpt: “Our result gives weight to the idea that quantum correlations somehow arise from outside spacetime, in the sense that no story in space and time can describe them,” https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/10/121028142217.htm "There's one important message I want to say here. When you look at the predictions of quantum mechanics for multi-particle entanglement,, so you could have one measurement here, one (measurement) there, an earlier (measurement), a later (measurement), and so on. These predictions (of quantum mechanics) are completely independent of the relative arrangements of measurements in space and time. That tells you something about the role of space and time. There's no role at all.",,, - Anton Zeilinger - 2022 Nobel Prize lectures in physics - video (1:50:07 mark) https://youtu.be/a9FsKqvrJNY?t=6607
Moreover, it is also important to learn that quantum information, unlike classical information, is 'conserved', in the sense that it cannot be created nor destroyed,
Quantum no-hiding theorem experimentally confirmed for first time - 2011 Excerpt: In the classical world, information can be copied and deleted at will. In the quantum world, however, the conservation of quantum information means that information cannot be created nor destroyed. This concept stems from two fundamental theorems of quantum mechanics: the no-cloning theorem and the no-deleting theorem. A third and related theorem, called the no-hiding theorem, addresses information loss in the quantum world. According to the no-hiding theorem, if information is missing from one system (which may happen when the system interacts with the environment), then the information is simply residing somewhere else in the Universe; in other words, the missing information cannot be hidden in the correlations between a system and its environment. http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-03-quantum-no-hiding-theorem-experimentally.html
And finally it is also important to learn that this quantum entanglement, and/or quantum information, is now found to be ubiquitous within molecular biology,
"What happens is this classical information (of DNA) is embedded, sandwiched, into the quantum information (of DNA). And most likely this classical information is never accessed because it is inside all the quantum information. You can only access the quantum information or the electron clouds and the protons. So mathematically you can describe that as a quantum/classical state." Elisabeth Rieper – Classical and Quantum Information in DNA – video (Longitudinal Quantum Information resides along the entire length of DNA discussed at the 19:30 minute mark; at 24:00 minute mark Dr Rieper remarks that practically the whole DNA molecule can be viewed as quantum information with classical information embedded within it) https://youtu.be/2nqHOnVTxJE?t=1176 Quantum criticality in a wide range of important biomolecules – Mar. 6, 2015 Excerpt: “Most of the molecules taking part actively in biochemical processes are tuned exactly to the transition point and are critical conductors,” they say. That’s a discovery that is as important as it is unexpected. “These findings suggest an entirely new and universal mechanism of conductance in biology very different from the one used in electrical circuits.” The permutations of possible energy levels of biomolecules is huge so the possibility of finding even one (biomolecule) that is in the quantum critical state by accident is mind-bogglingly small and, to all intents and purposes, impossible.,, of the order of 10^-50 of possible small biomolecules and even less for proteins,”,,, “what exactly is the advantage that criticality confers?” https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/the-origin-of-life-and-the-hidden-role-of-quantum-criticality-ca4707924552 Physicists Finally Observe a Link Between Quantum Criticality And Entanglement - 17 January 2020 Excerpt: Now, physicists have managed to observe billions upon billions of entangled electrons passing through a metal film.,,, "But at a quantum critical point, things are so collective that we have this chance to see the effects of entanglement, even in a metallic film that contains billions of billions of quantum mechanical objects." https://www.sciencealert.com/scientists-see-billions-and-billions-of-entangled-electrons-flowing-through-strange-metal
And to wrap all this up. Besides providing direct empirical falsification of neo-Darwinian claims that say immaterial information is somehow 'emergent' from a material basis, the implication of finding 'non-local', beyond space and time, and ‘conserved’, quantum entanglement, and/or quantum information, in molecular biology on such a massive scale, in every DNA and protein molecule, is fairly, and pleasantly, obvious. That pleasant implication, of course, being the fact that we now have fairly strong empirical evidence indicating that we do indeed have an immaterial, even eternal, soul that is capable of living beyond the death of our material bodies. As Stuart Hameroff states in the following article, 'it's possible that this quantum information can exist outside the body. Perhaps indefinitely as a soul'.
“Let’s say the heart stops beating. The blood stops flowing. The microtubules lose their quantum state. But the quantum information, which is in the microtubules, isn’t destroyed. It can’t be destroyed. It just distributes and dissipates to the universe at large. If a patient is resuscitated, revived, this quantum information can go back into the microtubules and the patient says, “I had a near death experience. I saw a white light. I saw a tunnel. I saw my dead relatives.,,” Now if they’re not revived and the patient dies, then it's possible that this quantum information can exist outside the body. Perhaps indefinitely as a soul.” - Stuart Hameroff - Quantum Entangled Consciousness - Life After Death - video (5:00 minute mark) https://youtu.be/jjpEc98o_Oo?t=300
In the grand scheme of relative importance of scientific discoveries, I consider these advances in quantum biology to rival all other scientific discoveries in terms scientific, theological, and especially personal significance. As Jesus once asked his disciples, along with a crowd of followers, "Is anything worth more than your soul?"
Mark 8:37 Is anything worth more than your soul?
bornagain77_{February 15, 2023
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And this massive 'thermodynamic hurdle' that information presents to Darwinists puts Darwinists in quite the conundrum. As Dr. Brian Miller explains, "No system without assistance ever moves both toward lower entropy and higher energy which is required for the formation of a cell.”
“‘Professor Dave’ argues that the origin of life does not face thermodynamic hurdles. He states that natural systems often spontaneously increase in order, such as water freezing or soap molecules forming micelles (e.g., spheres or bilayers), He is making the very common mistake that he fails to recognize that the formation of the cell represents both a dramatic decrease in entropy and an equally dramatic increase in energy. In contrast, water freezing represents both a decrease in entropy but also a decrease in energy. More specifically, the process of freezing releases heat that increases the entropy of the surrounding environment by an amount greater than the entropy decrease of the water molecule forming the rigid structure. Likewise, soap molecules coalescing into micelles represents a net increase of entropy since the surrounding water molecules significantly increase in their number of degrees of freedom. No system without assistance ever moves both toward lower entropy and higher energy which is required for the formation of a cell.” – Brian Miller, Ph. D. – – Episode 0/13: Reasons // A Course on Abiogenesis by Dr. James Tour https://youtu.be/71dqAFUb-v0?t=1434
On top of Dr. Miller's observation, it is now experimentally shown that intelligence has the capacity to impart information into a system in order to drive that system, thermodynamically speaking, in a 'life friendly' direction. Specifically, in the following 2010 experimental realization of Maxwell’s demon thought experiment, it was demonstrated that knowledge of a particle’s location and/or position converts information into energy.
Maxwell’s demon demonstration turns information into energy – November 2010 Excerpt: Scientists in Japan are the first to have succeeded in converting information into free energy in an experiment that verifies the “Maxwell demon” thought experiment devised in 1867.,,, In Maxwell’s thought experiment the demon creates a temperature difference simply from information about the gas molecule temperatures and without transferring any energy directly to them.,,, Until now, demonstrating the conversion of information to energy has been elusive, but University of Tokyo physicist Masaki Sano and colleagues have succeeded in demonstrating it in a nano-scale experiment. In a paper published in Nature Physics they describe how they coaxed a Brownian particle to travel upwards on a “spiral-staircase-like” potential energy created by an electric field solely on the basis of information on its location. As the particle traveled up the staircase it gained energy from moving to an area of higher potential, and the team was able to measure precisely how much energy had been converted from information. http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-11-maxwell-demon-energy.html
And as the following 2010 article stated about the preceding experiment, “This is a beautiful experimental demonstration that information has a thermodynamic content,”
Demonic device converts information to energy – 2010 Excerpt: “This is a beautiful experimental demonstration that information has a thermodynamic content,” says Christopher Jarzynski, a statistical chemist at the University of Maryland in College Park. In 1997, Jarzynski formulated an equation to define the amount of energy that could theoretically be converted from a unit of information2; the work by Sano and his team has now confirmed this equation. “This tells us something new about how the laws of thermodynamics work on the microscopic scale,” says Jarzynski. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=demonic-device-converts-inform
And as the following 2017 article states: James Clerk Maxwell (said), “The idea of dissipation of energy depends on the extent of our knowledge.”,,, quantum information theory,,, describes the spread of information through quantum systems.,,, Fifteen years ago, “we thought of entropy as a property of a thermodynamic system,” he said. “Now in (quantum) information theory, we wouldn’t say entropy is a property of a system, but a property of an observer who describes a system.”,,,
The Quantum Thermodynamics Revolution – May 2017 Excerpt: the 19th-century physicist James Clerk Maxwell put it, “The idea of dissipation of energy depends on the extent of our knowledge.” In recent years, a revolutionary understanding of thermodynamics has emerged that explains this subjectivity using quantum information theory — “a toddler among physical theories,” as del Rio and co-authors put it, that describes the spread of information through quantum systems. Just as thermodynamics initially grew out of trying to improve steam engines, today’s thermodynamicists are mulling over the workings of quantum machines. Shrinking technology — a single-ion engine and three-atom fridge were both experimentally realized for the first time within the past year — is forcing them to extend thermodynamics to the quantum realm, where notions like temperature and work lose their usual meanings, and the classical laws don’t necessarily apply. They’ve found new, quantum versions of the laws that scale up to the originals. Rewriting the theory from the bottom up has led experts to recast its basic concepts in terms of its subjective nature, and to unravel the deep and often surprising relationship between energy and information — the abstract 1s and 0s by which physical states are distinguished and knowledge is measured.,,, Renato Renner, a professor at ETH Zurich in Switzerland, described this as a radical shift in perspective. Fifteen years ago, “we thought of entropy as a property of a thermodynamic system,” he said. “Now in (quantum) information theory, we wouldn’t say entropy is a property of a system, but a property of an observer who describes a system.”,,, https://www.quantamagazine.org/quantum-thermodynamics-revolution/
To repeat that last sentence,“Now in (quantum) information theory, we wouldn’t say entropy is a property of a system, but a property of an observer who describes a system.”,,, That statement about entropy being a property of an observer who describes the system, for anyone involved in the ID vs. Darwinism debate, ought to send chills down their scientific spine. In other words, Intelligent Design, and a fairly direct inference to God as the Intelligence behind life, (via the non-locality of quantum information and/or the non-locality of quantum entanglement, which is ubiquitous within life), has now, for all intents and purposes, finally achieved experimental confirmation. In unpacking all of this to show why this is the case, first it is important to learn that quantum information and quantum entanglement are joined at the hip.
Quantum Entanglement and Information Quantum entanglement is a physical resource, like energy, associated with the peculiar nonclassical correlations that are possible between separated quantum systems. Entanglement can be measured, transformed, and purified. A pair of quantum systems in an entangled state can be used as a quantum information channel to perform computational and cryptographic tasks that are impossible for classical systems. The general study of the information-processing capabilities of quantum systems is the subject of quantum information theory. http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qt-entangle/ Quantum Information and Entanglement - 2010 Excerpt: ,,, quantum entanglement, which can be traced back to the EPR paradox in 1935 and gave rise to the discussions on the foundations of quantum mechanics related to reality and locality, plays crucial roles in quantum information processing such as quantum computation, quantum teleportation, dense coding, quantum error correction, quantum cryptographic schemes, entanglement swapping, and remote states preparation. Many striking achievements have been witnessed for the past ten years. https://www.hindawi.com/journals/amp/2010/657878/
In fact, classical information is subset of quantum information, On the following site entitled “Quantum Information Science”, (a site where Charles Bennett himself is on the steering committee),
Quantum Information Science Steering Committee C. H. Bennett IBM D. P. DiVincenzo IBM N. Gershenfeld MIT H. M. Gibbs University of Arizona H. J. Kimble Caltech J. Preskill Caltech U. V. Vazirani UC/Berkeley D. J. Wineland NIST C. Yao Princeton University https://www.nsf.gov/pubs/2000/nsf00101/nsf00101.htm
On that site, they have this illustration showing classical information to be a subset of quantum information
Classical Information is a subset of Quantum information – illustration https://www.nsf.gov/pubs/2000/nsf00101/images/figure1.gif below that illustration they have this caption, “Figure 1: The well-established theory of classical information and computation is actually a subset of a much larger topic, the emerging theory of quantum information and computation.”
bornagain77_{February 15, 2023
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As to:
Davies 1:19 "We understand the mechanism whereby single cells can eventually achieve something like the complexity of a human being and it's called Darwinian evolution. Now if you were to ask a biologist, "Given bacteria on some other planet, how likely is it that you get intelligent life there in another three billion years?". We don't know how to do the calculation but at least we know the mechanism that did it."
Well actually, a very rough ballpark calculation has be done on the probability that a bacterium could evolve into intelligent life.
"In another book I wrote with Fuz (Rana), Who Was Adam?, we describe calculations done by evolutionary biologist Francisco Ayala and by astrophysicists John Barrow, Brandon Carter, and Frank Tipler for the probability that a bacterium would evolve under ideal natural conditions—given the presumption that the mechanisms for natural biological evolution are both effective and rapid. They determine that probability to be no more than 10-24,000,000. The bottom line is that rather than the probability for extraterrestrial intelligent life being 1 as Aczel claims, very conservatively from a naturalistic perspective it is much less than 10^500 + 22 -1054 -100,000,000,000 -24,000,000. That is, it is less than 10-100,024,000,532. In longhand notation it would be 0.00 … 001 with 100,024,000,531 zeros (100 billion, 24 million, 5 hundred and thirty-one zeros) between the decimal point and the 1. That longhand notation of the probability would fill over 20,000 complete Bibles. In other words, the probability is as close to zero as any scientifically determined probability has ever been. - Hugh Ross- Does the Probability for ETI = 1? https://reasons.org/explore/publications/articles/does-the-probability-for-eti-1
And even from that very rough ballpark calculation, we can easily see that for it to happen even once, as William Lane Craig has observed, that "it literally would have been a miracle and evidence for the existence of God.”
“In Barrow and Tippler's book The Anthropic Cosmological Principle, they list ten steps necessary in the course of human evolution, each of which, is so improbable that if left to happen by chance alone, the sun would have ceased to be a main sequence star and would have incinerated the earth. They estimate that the odds of the evolution (by chance) of the human genome is somewhere between 4 to the negative 180th power, to the 110,000th power, and 4 to the negative 360th power, to the 110,000th power. Therefore, if evolution did occur, it literally would have been a miracle and evidence for the existence of God.” - William Lane Craig - If Human Evolution Did Occur It Was A Miracle - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUxm8dXLRpA
Moreover, leading Darwinists themselves have honestly admitted that the Darwinian 'mechanism' is grossly lacking in its ability to explain the origin of human intelligence. As they confessed after 4 decades of research, we have "essentially no explanation of how and why our linguistic computations and representations evolved."
Leading Evolutionary Scientists Admit We Have No Evolutionary Explanation of Human Language - December 19, 2014 Excerpt: Understanding the evolution of language requires evidence regarding origins and processes that led to change. In the last 40 years, there has been an explosion of research on this problem as well as a sense that considerable progress has been made. We argue instead that the richness of ideas is accompanied by a poverty of evidence, with essentially no explanation of how and why our linguistic computations and representations evolved.,,, (Marc Hauser, Charles Yang, Robert Berwick, Ian Tattersall, Michael J. Ryan, Jeffrey Watumull, Noam Chomsky and Richard C. Lewontin, "The mystery of language evolution," Frontiers in Psychology, Vol 5:401 (May 7, 2014).) Casey Luskin added: “It's difficult to imagine much stronger words from a more prestigious collection of experts.” http://www.evolutionnews.org/2014/12/leading_evoluti092141.html
Moreover, besides lacking a 'mechanism' to explain human intelligence, Darwinists also lack a 'mechanism' to explain the transition from single cell bacteria to multicellular creatures of specific biological forms. i.e. "At present, the problem of biological form remains unsolved."
On the problem of biological form - Marta Linde-Medina (2020) Excerpt: Embryonic development, which inspired the first theories of biological form, was eventually excluded from the conceptual framework of the Modern Synthesis, (neo-Darwinism) as irrelevant.,,, At present, the problem of biological form remains unsolved. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12064-020-00317-3
In short, Darwinists, because they have no 'mechanism' to explain origin of biological form, lack a 'mechanism' to explain the 'origin of species'. Moreover, the 'problem' of differentiation of specific species, (i.e. the differentiation of specific biological forms), is a far greater for Darwinists than Darwinists portray to the general public.
The Diverse Early Embryonic Development of Vertebrates and Implications Regarding Their Ancestry David W. Swift - July 21, 2022 Excerpt: It is well known that the embryonic development of vertebrates from different classes (e.g., fish, reptiles, mammals) pass through a “phylotypic stage” when they look similar, and this apparent homology is widely seen as evidence of their common ancestry. However, despite their morphological similarities, and contrary to evolutionary expectations, the phylotypic stages of different vertebrate classes arise in radically diverse ways. This diversity clearly counters the superficial appearance of homology of the phylotypic stage, and the plain inference is that vertebrates have not evolved from a common vertebrate ancestor. The diversity extends through all stages of early development—including cleavage and formation of the blastula, gastrulation, neurulation, and formation of the gut and extraembryonic membranes. This paper focuses on gastrulation, during which the germ layers originate and the vertebrate body-plan begins to form.,,, https://bio-complexity.org/ojs/index.php/main/article/view/BIO-C.2022.1/pdf
Davies goes on,
Davies 1:50: "When it comes to the transition from non-life to life, we don't know what that mechanism was..,,, We still do not know the physical process, the pathway, whereby chemicals turned into life.,, If you don't know the mechanism you can't estimate the odds. It's impossible for us to say just how likely it was that a mishmash of chemicals turned into something as complex as a cell."
Well actually, because of thermodynamic considerations, we do have a fairly accurate estimate of the odds involved in going from non-life to life. Namely 1 in 10^100,000,000,000.
Did Life Start By Chance? Excerpt: Molecular biophysicist, Harold Morowitz (Yale University), calculated the odds of life beginning under natural conditions (spontaneous generation). He calculated, if one were to take the simplest living cell and break every chemical bond within it, the odds that the cell would reassemble under ideal natural conditions (the best possible chemical environment) would be one chance in 10^100,000,000,000. You will have probably have trouble imagining a number so large, so Hugh Ross provides us with the following example. If all the matter in the Universe was converted into building blocks of life, and if assembly of these building blocks were attempted once a microsecond for the entire age of the universe. Then instead of the odds being 1 in 10^100,000,000,000, they would be 1 in 10^99,999,999,916. http://members.tripod.com/~Black_J/chance.html Of note: Harold Joseph Morowitz (Yale) was an American biophysicist who studied the application of thermodynamics to living systems. Author of numerous books and articles, his work includes technical monographs as well as essays. The origin of life was his primary research interest for more than fifty years.
In fact, we also have a good estimate as to how much 'positional' information must be imparted into a 'simple' cell in order to explain why it is so far out of thermodynamic equilibrium.
Biophysics – Information theory. Relation between information and entropy: - Setlow-Pollard, Ed. Addison Wesley Excerpt: Linschitz gave the figure 9.3 x 10^12 cal/deg or 9.3 x 10^12 x 4.2 joules/deg for the entropy of a bacterial cell. Using the relation H = S/(k In 2), we find that the information content is 4 x 10^12 bits. Morowitz' deduction from the work of Bayne-Jones and Rhees gives the lower value of 5.6 x 10^11 bits, which is still in the neighborhood of 10^12 bits. Thus two quite different approaches give rather concordant figures. https://docs.google.com/document/d/18hO1bteXTPOqQtd2H12PI5wFFoTjwg8uBAU5N0nEQIE/edit Wistar Destroys Evolution Excerpt: A number of mathematicians, familiar with the biological problems, spoke at that 1966 Wistar Institute,, For example, Murray Eden, (of MIT), showed that it would be impossible for even a single ordered pair of genes to be produced by DNA mutations in the bacteria, E. coli,—with 5 billion years in which to produce it! His estimate was based on 5 trillion tons of the bacteria covering the planet to a depth of nearly an inch during that 5 billion years. He then explained that the genes of E. coli contain over a trillion (10^12) bits of data. That is the number 10 followed by 12 zeros. *Eden then showed the mathematical impossibility of protein forming by chance. https://www.sdadefend.com/pathlights/ce_encyclopedia/Encyclopedia/20hist12.htm - Murray Eden, “Inadequacies of Neo-Darwinian Evolution as a Scientific Theory,” - 1967
'In comparison,,, the largest libraries in the world,, have about 10 million volumes or 10^12 bits.”
“a one-celled bacterium, e. coli, is estimated to contain the equivalent of 100 million pages of Encyclopedia Britannica. Expressed in information in science jargon, this would be the same as 10^12 bits of information. In comparison, the total writings from classical Greek Civilization is only 10^9 bits, and the largest libraries in the world – The British Museum, Oxford Bodleian Library, New York Public Library, Harvard Widenier Library, and the Moscow Lenin Library – have about 10 million volumes or 10^12 bits.” – R. C. Wysong - The Creation-evolution Controversy 'The information content of a simple cell has been estimated as around 10^12 bits, comparable to about a hundred million pages of the Encyclopedia Britannica." - Carl Sagan, "Life" in Encyclopedia Britannica: Macropaedia (1974 ed.), pp. 893-894
Needless to say, that is a massive amount of information that must somehow be accounted for to explain why 'simple' life is so far out of thermodynamic equilibrium.
John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
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BarryArrington/1
This pretty much gives the store away. Though it is wrong for him to say that nobody has a clue. We ID folks have more than a clue. We have the answer, based on countless trillions of observations. Information always comes from intelligence.
Well, there you go people --mystery solved. We can all sleep easier tonight knowing that tomorrow we won't have to deal with OoL ever again..... Jerry/8 Here's the link to Closer to the Truth. Instead of assuming it "is a site promoting atheism" why don't you watch the 21 seasons of episodes. Kuhn interviews some of the most fascinating people you will find on topics ranging from quantum mechanics to art. (https://closertotruth.com/episodes/)chuckdarwin_{February 15, 2023
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From what I understand the site “Closer to the Truth” is a site promoting atheism and the interviewer is attempting to find the materialistic reasons for everything while appearing questioning. It is no friend to ID. I find it very interesting that Davies says he buys Darwinian Evolution without a second thought. So the interviewer has got part of what he wants.jerry_{February 15, 2023
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WJM @6 Does retrocausality WRT laws of physics make sense to you in the context of materialism? Davies speaks highly of Darwin and accepts unguided evolution. In his concept, future human scientists will retrocausally fine-tune the laws of physics.Origenes_{February 15, 2023
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Origenes said:
According to him, the best explanation is that human beings fine-tuned the laws of physics. Yes, really.
KF said:
Origenes, now you see one reason why I speak to circular, retrocausation.
What then is the alternative explanation for the results of the delayed-choice quantum eraser experiment? I understand that from a linear time causal framework, one might balk at the logical implications of retrocausality. Under MRT, though, humans are causing the fine-tuning of physics (as well as everything else they experience) AND it isn't 'retrocausal" because there's no such thing as "the past" or "the future," at least not in the classical sense of those words. Nobody experiences the past or the future; we only experience "the now." If existence is mental in nature, "retrocausality" is nothing more than, essentially, rearranging thought in an eternal now. As far as whether or not humans are capable of creating experiential physics in a physical world, we do it all the time in our dreams.William J Murray_{February 15, 2023
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Kairosfocus, we are witnessing materialists exploring the ugly realm of self-referential incoherence to its fullest extent. We must brace ourselves for the long haul.Origenes_{February 15, 2023
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Origenes, now you see one reason why I speak to circular, retrocausation. It also pops up in some popularisations of quantum issues. KFkairosfocus_{February 15, 2023
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Paul Davies is an ID-er WRT the fine-tuned universe of a very rare kind. According to him, the best explanation is that human beings fine-tuned the laws of physics. Yes, really. He explained his concept in a youtube video which I cannot find, unfortunately. However, Davies's bizarre concept is explained here (PDF) by Paul Himes:
Yet on the other hand, he has also rejected the concept of a personal deity, preferring to argue for an emergent, self-explaining universe. Indeed, Davies has gravitated towards a view where ‘a deep principle of nature links the laws of the cosmos to the emergence of life and consciousness, perhaps through some form of backward causation’.2 For Davies, this simultaneously eliminates the need for a creator external to the universe while assigning a special role to human consciousness in explaining the existence of the universe.
Davies explained (in the youtube video that I cannot find) that his idea is based on quantum mechanics experiments which suggest that the past can be altered.Origenes_{February 15, 2023
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. Clueless RLK: Well what is that first step, that makes it take off? Davies: Well Von Neumann had some ideas… (chuckle)Upright BiPed_{February 14, 2023
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"But what makes life seeming magical, what makes it so different from just any old complexity, non-living complexity, is the way it organizes, and manages, and stores information. ... The true problem about life's origin is what I call the software of life. It's the coming into existence of that software, not the hardware stuff ... How did that first step about organizing information in this particular way arise? Nobody has a clue." Beginning at 4:m50s. There is much much more in just his 10 minute clip. This pretty much gives the store away. Though it is wrong for him to say that nobody has a clue. We ID folks have more than a clue. We have the answer, based on countless trillions of observations. Information always comes from intelligence.Barry Arrington_{February 14, 2023
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