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At Mind Matters News: Researchers: Distrust of science is due to tribal loyalty

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In Part 2 of 4, we look at a claim arising from a recent study: We blindly believe those we identify with, ignoring the wisdom of science:

Recently, a paper lamenting the decline of trust in science was discussed at ScienceAlert, a science news site. In representing the paper—doubtless accurately — for a lay audience, the write-up embodies the causes of legitimate public distrust…

We press on. The second point of four raised at ScienceAlert is that tribal loyalty is thought to create distrust in science: “‘Work on cultural cognition has highlighted how people contort scientific findings to fit with values that matter to their cultural identities,’ write Philipp-Muller and colleagues.” …

There seems to be no recognition here that researchers also have a tribal loyalty. The fact that they are fiercely competitive among themselves doesn’t change that. Just as businesses can be fiercely competitive among themselves but band together against unwelcome government regulations, researchers can unite against skepticism of their claims in general.

If the researchers’ response is, “We represent science,” one might ask, “Why, then, was the Wuhan lab origin of COVID-19 treated as a ‘conspiracy theory’ when it was in fact a reasonable hypothesis?” Anyone who has taken the trouble to study the situation will be aware that political considerations made the theory unpopular because — well, for one thing — the United States had been helping to fund the research.

News, “Researchers: Distrust of science is due to tribal loyalty” at Mind Matters News (July 18, 2022)

Sometimes — just sometimes — researchers’ attitudes are themselves the best argument against science one could think of.

Takehome: There seems to be no recognition that researchers, however fiercely competitive among themselves, also have a tribal loyalty that skews their judgment.

The paper, which requires a subscription, is “Why are people antiscience, and what can we do about it?” by Aviva Philipp-Muller, Spike W. S. Lee, and Richard E. Petty, July 12, 2022, PNAS 119 (30) e2120755119
https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2120755119

Here are all four parts of the series:

  1. Why many now reject science… do you really want to know? COVID demonstrated — as nothing else could — that the “science” was all over the map and didn’t help people avoid panic. As the panic receded, the U.S. government started setting up a disinformation board to target NON-government sources of panic, thus deepening loss of trust.
  2. Researchers: Distrust of science is due to tribal loyalty. In Part 2 of 4, we look at a claim arising from a recent study: We blindly believe those we identify with, ignoring the wisdom of science. There seems to be no recognition that researchers, however fiercely competitive among themselves, also have a tribal loyalty that skews their judgment.
  3. Researchers: If we tell folks more about science, they trust less. Part 3: The researchers argue that doubts about science arise from conflict with beliefs. The many COVID-19 debacles suggest other causes… Generally, the remedy for loss of trust after widespread failures is reform of the system, not reform of its doubters. Post-COVID, scientists should take heed.

and

  1. Claim: If science were properly presented, trust would grow! The ideas examined in these four short essays all assume that scientists are exempt from the bias and self-interest that governs everyone else. We’re asked to believe that scientists are somehow exempt from the bias problem that they say is ingrained in our biology — yet they have the same biology as everyone else…
Comments
Vividbleau: You mean the Biden economic community, the community that said inflation was transitory. Like I said, I'm not an economist but I did post a quote from an investment website which gave at least one other definition of recession from the National Bureau of Economic Research. It seems that there are different ways of looking at it and if the NBER are suspect then please explain why. JVL here is what is going on. All of us are swimming in a polluted sea of lies so and we are left adrift to sort out facts vs fiction. However the liars do not see their lies as lies because of the ideology they embrace. Much has been written about the importance of truth on this site but to the left, like many here , truth is made not found. Truth was made not found by asserting that a man can be a women, two quarters of negative GDP is not the technical definition of a recession, I could go on forever. For the record, I have changed my mind about the man vs woman issue. It wasn't me who came up with a different definition of recession, I just found one and posted it. That's not a lie that's just pointing out that there is more than one definition. JVL please take the red pill I'm good thanks.JVL
July 30, 2022
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JVL “I would say that President Biden got that statement wrong.” That’s the understatement of the year. “I am not an economist but was it the case that the economic community changed its definition of a recession and that Wikipedia was just reflecting that change?” You mean the Biden economic community, the community that said inflation was transitory. JVL here is what is going on. All of us are swimming in a polluted sea of lies so and we are left adrift to sort out facts vs fiction. However the liars do not see their lies as lies because of the ideology they embrace. Much has been written about the importance of truth on this site but to the left, like many here , truth is made not found. Truth was made not found by asserting that a man can be a women, two quarters of negative GDP is not the technical definition of a recession, I could go on forever. Bottom line narrative makes something true to the postmodern lefty deconstructionist. The lies become the truth. JVL please take the red pill Vividvividbleau
July 30, 2022
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine_efficacy
Vaccine efficacy or vaccine effectiveness is the percentage reduction of disease cases in a vaccinated group of people compared to an unvaccinated group. For example, a vaccine efficacy or effectiveness of 80% indicates an 80% decrease in the number of disease cases among a group of vaccinated people compared to a group in which nobody was vaccinated. When a study is carried out using the most favorable, ideal or perfectly controlled conditions, such as those in a clinical trial, the term vaccine efficacy is used. On the other hand, when a study is carried out to show how well a vaccine works when they are used in a bigger, typical population under less-than-perfectly controlled conditions, the term vaccine effectiveness is used. Vaccine efficacy was designed and calculated by Greenwood and Yule in 1915 for the cholera and typhoid vaccines. It is best measured using double-blind, randomized, clinical controlled trials, such that it is studied under "best case scenarios." Vaccine efficacy studies are used to measure several important and critical outcomes of interest such as disease attack rates, hospitalizations due to the disease, deaths due to the disease, asymptomatic infection, serious adverse events due to vaccination, vaccine reactogenicity, and cost effectiveness of the vaccine. Vaccine efficacy is calculated on a set population (and therefore is not a constant value when counting in other populations), and may be misappropriated to be how efficacious a vaccine is in all populations.
And the very important point is made: a vaccine may not be 100% effective but if it's safe then getting the vaccine is better than getting a full-blown version of the disease. Also, from the article on Polio:
The second polio virus vaccine was developed in 1952 by Jonas Salk at the University of Pittsburgh, and announced to the world on 12 April 1955. The Salk vaccine, or inactivated poliovirus vaccine, is based on poliovirus grown in a type of monkey kidney tissue culture (vero cell line), which is chemically inactivated with formalin. After two doses of inactivated poliovirus vaccine (given by injection), 90 percent or more of individuals develop protective antibody to all three serotypes of poliovirus, and at least 99 percent are immune to poliovirus following three doses. Subsequently, Albert Sabin developed another live, oral polio vaccine. It was produced by the repeated passage of the virus through nonhuman cells at subphysiological temperatures. The attenuated poliovirus in the Sabin vaccine replicates very efficiently in the gut, the primary site of wild poliovirus infection and replication, but the vaccine strain is unable to replicate efficiently within nervous system tissue. A single dose of Sabin's oral polio vaccine produces immunity to all three poliovirus serotypes in about 50 PERCENT of recipients. Three doses of live-attenuated oral vaccine produce protective antibody to all three poliovirus types in more than 95 percent of recipients. Human trials of Sabin's vaccine began in 1957, and in 1958 it was selected, in competition with the live vaccines of Koprowski and other researchers, by the US National Institutes of Health. Licensed in 1962, it rapidly became the only polio vaccine used worldwide.
So, even the vaunted polio vaccine is not more than 50% effective after one dose!! How many did you have when you were a child? Do you remember? Was it more than one? Probably.JVL
July 30, 2022
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BobRyan: How about going back to the beginning of when COVID was first noticed. It was October of 2019 by Dr. Li, who was a doctor in Wuhan. Wuhan is a major city with an international airport. What is your evidence that it was first noticed in October 2019? Just because it was first noticed in October of 2019, does not mean it was not already there. How long did it take before anyone noticed the symptoms? How far had COVID already spread with an international airport? It was noticed because people were getting very ill. If it had been widespread before it was noticed in China then it would have been noticed someplace else when people started getting really ill. People DID get really ill, that's why it was noticed!! You keep saying it's just a minor thing but you admit people were getting very ill. Most people who have COVID do not even know they have it due to either no or mild symptoms. Only a small percentage develop serious symptoms. The percentage varies. And, remember, even some young children and teenagers have died. And many people are now suffering from Long COVID. Why shut down for something that is already in the general populace? Why rush new technology, which is what mRNA is? Why ignore the normal ten years of testing that happens with vaccines? Your argument depends on your contention that COVID was already widespread which you have not provided any evidence of. Again, the accepted version is that COVID was noticed and reported in December 2019 in China. Please give us evidence that there is another story. Without testing, how do they know what the long-term effects are? It was tested!! True that it wasn't tested over a long period of time but people were dying. And, guess what, after more than a year of vaccinations there doesn't seem to be huge numbers of lingering after effects. And if you think there are then please provide the evidence. People who took it were told they would not get COVID if they took it. If the shots prevented others from getting COVID, how does my not taking it have any impact on those who have taken it? If it only effects me, why would there be pressure? They should have been told that their body would have a better chance of fighting the virus if they got vaccinated. That's how vaccinations work, you should know that. You can get COVID more than once as has been clearly documented. AND, even if you are vaccinated, you can still catch the virus (it happened to me recently) and you can still pass it on (I was told to stay home for five days) BUT your symptoms are much less and you are less likely to pass it on. But you still can. Then we were told that anyone who took the shot needed more shots. We were told that it was a vaccine, which does not require more than one. Polio does not need additional boosters. Vaccines are a one and done. There is a lot of evidence that even the Polio vaccines effectiveness tapers off. When I went travelling in Central America (in the early 90s) I was advised (by the CDC and my local health authority) to get a Polio booster, Which I did. There were also the increasing numbers of people who took the shot that got COVID. Seems like everyone who takes the shot gets something they were told they would not get. Everyone? Really? I've had three vaccination and only got a sore patch on my arm. As did many people I know. Some felt a little poorly for a day or so. But that's better than the full blown COVID symptoms if you aren't one of the lucky ones who suffers a lot. To the point of death for some. Throughout it all, naturally immunity has been scoffed at. I will take my natural immunity over a rushed shot any day. My immunity has been tried and tested, unlike the shots. Some people aren't as lucky as you. And some people died. You are not a medical expert. There are lots of people who have spent years and years dealing with viral pandemics. I'll take their words over yours I think.JVL
July 30, 2022
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from https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/recession.asp
A recession is a significant, widespread, and prolonged downturn in economic activity. Because recessions often last six months or more, one popular rule of thumb is that two consecutive quarters of decline in a country's Gross Domestic Product (GDP) constitute a recession. Economists including those at the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER), which dates U.S. business cycles, define a recession as an economic contraction starting at the peak of the expansion that preceded it and ending at the low point of the ensuing downturn. Recessions typically produce declines in economic output, consumer demand, and employment. The NBER considers indicators including nonfarm payrolls, industrial production, and retail sales, among others, in designating the start and end of U.S. recessions, usually months after the peak and trough of the business cycle.
So it looks like there are different benchmarks and definitions of a recession.JVL
July 30, 2022
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Vividbleau: I would say that President Biden got that statement wrong. I think he should have said: if you get these vaccines then if you catch COVID your symptoms should be reduced or non-existent. And he should have said that your viral load will be much lower so that you'd be much less likely to give it to some one else. I recently tested positive for COVID-19 and was told by my employer to stay away for five days even though I've had three vaccinations. Because I can still give it to someone else. My symptoms were minor to non-existent. BTW did the CDC immediately come out and tell the public that Biden was wrong? Did WHO? Did the NHS? Did Birx, who from her own lips knew what she was saying about the Covid jab was not accurate? Did Fauci? Did they immediately come out and tell the public that he was wrong about transmissibility ? You're implying they didn't. I have no idea since I don't follow all the US news. I think they should have. Are you actually saying that I need to look up some study before I conclude that the polio and small pox vaccines / inoculations were more effective than the Covid jab? That’s bonkers! I'm saying that it's easy enough to find information about how vaccines vary considerably in their efficacy. Some are only 60% effective while others are in the high 90s. There is no chance that my belief regarding the efficacy of the polio and small pox vax are more effective than the Covid jab and unlike you I don’t need Wikipedia to do my thinking for me. Wikipedia doesn't tell me how to think but it does provide some baseline information that I can then follow-up to help me make up my mind. The same Wiki I might add that just changed the definition of what is a recession. I have enjoyed a very very long career in the financial sector and over my lifetime what defines a recession has been 2 quarters of declining GDP growth. This is a perfect example of gaslighting and the full blown adoption of the ideology that truth is made not found. I am not an economist but was it the case that the economic community changed its definition of a recession and that Wikipedia was just reflecting that change? Again, Wikipedia is just a source that's free and easy to access. And I just use it as one source of information that hopefully will provide me with references that I can check out.JVL
July 30, 2022
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How about going back to the beginning of when COVID was first noticed. It was October of 2019 by Dr. Li, who was a doctor in Wuhan. Wuhan is a major city with an international airport. The BBC and others reported that Dr. Li noticed what appeared to be SARS and spoke out about it. No one was looking for SARS and the CCP disagreed, so they sent police to threaten him until he recanted. Just because it was first noticed in October of 2019, does not mean it was not already there. How long did it take before anyone noticed the symptoms? How far had COVID already spread with an international airport? Just because we know the origin does not mean we know how long it was out in the world. How many infected left Wuhan before October of 2019? No one in China was looking for SARS. Most people who have COVID do not even know they have it due to either no or mild symptoms. Only a small percentage develop serious symptoms. Why shut down for something that is already in the general populace? Why rush new technology, which is what mRNA is? Why ignore the normal ten years of testing that happens with vaccines? Drug companies and the CDC, along with others said it was safe. Without testing, how do they know what the long-term effects are? Other than the promise that it was safe, there was no data to prove it was safe. In less than a year, it was already out and being used on the world. Something that should still be in the animal testing phase was promised as safe by people who could not know it was. Then there was taking the shots for those who took the shot. People who took it were told they would not get COVID if they took it. If the shots prevented others from getting COVID, how does my not taking it have any impact on those who have taken it? If it only effects me, why would there be pressure? Then we were told that anyone who took the shot needed more shots. We were told that it was a vaccine, which does not require more than one. Polio does not need additional boosters. Vaccines are a one and done. There were also the increasing numbers of people who took the shot that got COVID. Seems like everyone who takes the shot gets something they were told they would not get. Throughout it all, naturally immunity has been scoffed at. I will take my natural immunity over a rushed shot any day. My immunity has been tried and tested, unlike the shots. All of this for something no one knows exactly when the virus first left Wuhan on that international airport and other modes of transportation. We shut down much of the world for something that was already in the world.BobRyan
July 30, 2022
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JVL “You seem to have a very simplistic notion that all vaccines have or should have the same efficacy rates and chances of side effects, etc. “ Ahhh no! Perhaps you have mistaken me for Joe Biden? July 25, 2022 at 6:00 pm During a July 2021 CNN town hall, U.S. President Joe Biden stated that “You’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations.” He also said that if you got the jab you could not give it to anyone else. BTW did the CDC immediately come out and tell the public that Biden was wrong? Did WHO? Did the NHS? Did Birx, who from her own lips knew what she was saying about the Covid jab was not accurate? Did Fauci? Did they immediately come out and tell the public that he was wrong about transmissibility ? “This is clearly not the case and if you really wanted to learn about such things you could easily look it up. But you don’t, preferring to rely on anecdotes and personal experiences. Why don’t you look at the actual data instead? “ Are you actually saying that I need to look up some study before I conclude that the polio and small pox vaccines / inoculations were more effective than the Covid jab? That’s bonkers! “Are you worried that your beliefs might be challenged or even disproven? There is no chance that my belief regarding the efficacy of the polio and small pox vax are more effective than the Covid jab and unlike you I don’t need Wikipedia to do my thinking for me. The same Wiki I might add that just changed the definition of what is a recession. I have enjoyed a very very long career in the financial sector and over my lifetime what defines a recession has been 2 quarters of declining GDP growth. This is a perfect example of gaslighting and the full blown adoption of the ideology that truth is made not found. Vividvividbleau
July 29, 2022
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BR at 74, That did it. Stop the narrative. OK? Your unsupported nonsense is nonsense. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02483-w Unfortunately, due to your enthusiasm, you have won the 2022 Manure Spreader Award, which is now on its way to you.relatd
July 29, 2022
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Asauber: Is your contention that no government institution ever fudged any numbers? Let’s start there to see if we can actually have a discussion. Of course they do! But, in any given situation, you have to first show that they did in that case. Look, we know some conspiracies have happened. Anyone, like me, who lived through Watergate and the Iran Contra debacle knows this. That doesn't mean every situation is a planned lie. You still have to find the evidence. And you have to look at ALL the evidence before you come to a conclusion. Not just the stuff that supports your view.JVL
July 29, 2022
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"An opinion is not the same as evidence that it actually happened. Evidence first." JVL, Is your contention that no government institution ever fudged any numbers? Let's start there to see if we can actually have a discussion. Andrewasauber
July 29, 2022
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Asauber: If anyone thinks there are some governing institutions who wouldn’t ever fudge numbers to make themselves look better is hopelessly stupid. An opinion is not the same as evidence that it actually happened. Evidence first.JVL
July 29, 2022
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If anyone thinks there are some governing institutions who wouldn't ever fudge numbers to make themselves look better is hopelessly stupid. Andrewasauber
July 29, 2022
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96% of the US Climate Data is Corrupted!!! Corrupted Data via Faulty weather station locationsET
July 29, 2022
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BobRyan: Did any of the measures taken, including the most draconian, stop anything? Nothing governments did stopped it from spreading. The virus is transmitted via close contact between people so limiting the number of close contacts slows down the spread and helps the medical community keep up with the cases. All this was very clearly explained and understood in the UK at least. Besides, it's just common sense. MRNA should still be in animal testing, since it takes at least three years to figure out how to make it work. Then another 7 for human testing, which is where most fail. The mRNA vaccine did go through some human testing and was seen to be incredibly effective and incredibly safe so the governments of the world decided that it was in everyone's interest to fast-track the process and get people vaccinated so fewer would die and the hospitals would not be overrun with patients. As it was many hospitals ran out of ventilators and PPE. COVID was an excuse to see what happens when tested on mass population, rather than go through the lengthy process of proper testing. It should still be animal research, not human. You are so paranoid and without any kind of evidence. Anyone who took the shots is a human test subject. As for Wikipedia being a source, it fails. Anyone can change anything. There is a difference between inoculations, like influenza and vaccines. I welcome you to find a mistake or error (backed up by evidence) in any of the material I posted. And the Wikipedia article SAID there was a difference between inoculations and vaccines. You can read can't you?JVL
July 29, 2022
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Did any of the measures taken, including the most draconian, stop anything? Nothing governments did stopped it from spreading. MRNA should still be in animal testing, since it takes at least three years to figure out how to make it work. Then another 7 for human testing, which is where most fail. Every so often there is news about a potential breakthrough with AIDS that never comes to light. Why the rush? MRNA is believed to hold the key to curing all sorts of things. COVID was an excuse to see what happens when tested on mass population, rather than go through the lengthy process of proper testing. It should still be animal research, not human. Anyone who took the shots is a human test subject. As for Wikipedia being a source, it fails. Anyone can change anything. There is a difference between inoculations, like influenza and vaccines.BobRyan
July 29, 2022
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Seversky at 72, See here: https://jsri.loyno.edu/catholicism-and-capitalismrelatd
July 28, 2022
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What is the Catholic position on capitalist profiteering?Seversky
July 28, 2022
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From today's The Street, a Wall Street investment site. https://www.thestreet.com/markets/pfizer-earnings-get-covid-treatment-sales-boost-beat-forecastsrelatd
July 28, 2022
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BR at 68, Test the world for what? A biological weapon? China had no role? Don't make me take out my Prop-O-Ganda meter.relatd
July 28, 2022
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BobRyan: It was the CDC giving accurate data on deaths, with 1% of those who died having nothing else. You have a right to be incorrect. Again, both graphs/charts at the bottom of the paper you cited are clearly labelled "Death Risk Ration (RR)" which is why they numbers given don't add up to 100. Or hadn't you noticed that. If you can even read a clear and simple heading then why should anyone listen to your interpretations? Are you too much of a coward to go back and look again and admit you were wrong? So shut down the world and bring on a shot that is not a vaccine for everyone? Some very young people died and some middle-aged people. And a lot of people are still suffering from Long Covid which the vaccines also seem to help with. You do know that there was a real risk that the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom was going to die in hospital with COVID? He, himself, admitted it, on air. He's in his 50s and helped push out vaccinations across the UK starting with the most vulnerable: the elderly. If an idiot like Boris Johnson can get that right why can't you? Vaccines prevent people from getting a virus, like polio and smallpox. Inoculations are for things like influenza. Sigh. From Wikipedia:
Inoculation is a set of methods of artificially inducing immunity against various infectious diseases. The terms "inoculation", "vaccination", and "immunization" are often used synonymously, but there are some important differences among them. Inoculation is the act of implanting a disease inside a person or animal, vaccination is the act of implanting or giving someone a vaccine specifically, and immunization is what happens to the immune system as a result
Anyway, a vaccine does not stop you from getting infected; it ramps up the immune system so it's ready to fight off an infection. Dr. Robert Malone co-created the mRNA shot and made clear it should not be used. Again, easily found on Wikipedia:
While Malone promotes himself as an inventor of mRNA vaccines, credit for the distinction is more often given to the lead authors on the major papers he contributed to (such as Felgner and Wolff), later advances by Katalin Karikó and Drew Weissman, or Moderna co-founder Derrick Rossi. Ultimately, mRNA vaccines were the decades-long result of the contributions of hundreds of researchers, including Malone. The New York Times, in an article about Malone, reported: "While he was involved in some early research into the technology, his role in its creation was minimal at best, say half a dozen Covid experts and researchers, including three who worked closely with Dr. Malone."
Also:
In early 2020, during the COVID-19 pandemic, Malone was involved in research into the heartburn medicine famotidine (Pepcid) as a potential COVID-19 treatment following early observational data suggesting that it may have been associated with higher COVID-19 survival. Malone, then with Alchem Laboratories, suspected famotidine may target an enzyme that the virus (SARS-CoV-2) uses to reproduce, and recruited a computational chemist to help design a 3D-model of the enzyme based on the viral sequence and comparisons to the 2003 SARS virus. After encouraging preliminary results, Alchem Laboratories, in conjunction with New York's Northwell Health, initiated a clinical trial on famotidine and hydroxychloroquine. Malone resigned from Alchem shortly after the trial began and Northwell paused the trial due to a shortage of hospitalized patients. With another researcher, Malone successfully proposed to the publishers of Frontiers in Pharmacology a special issue featuring early observational studies on existing medication used in the treatment of COVID-19, for which they recruited other guest editors, contributors, and reviewers. The journal rejected two of the papers selected: one on famotidine co-authored by Malone and another submitted by physician Pierre Kory on the use of ivermectin. The publisher rejected the ivermectin paper due to what it stated were "a series of strong, unsupported claims" which they determined did "not offer an objective nor balanced scientific contribution." Malone and most other guest editors resigned in protest in April 2021, and the special issue has been pulled from the journal's website. Starting in mid-2021, Malone received criticism for propagating COVID-19 misinformation and conspiracy theories, including making claims about the toxicity of spike proteins generated by some COVID-19 vaccines; using interviews on mass media to popularize medication with ivermectin; and tweeting a study by others questioning vaccine safety that was later retracted. He said that LinkedIn temporarily suspended his account over a post stating that the Chairman of the Thomson Reuters Foundation was also a board member at Pfizer, and other posts questioning the efficacy of some COVID-19 vaccines. Malone has also falsely claimed that the Pfizer–BioNTech and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines could worsen COVID-19 infections, and that the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) had not granted full approval to the Pfizer vaccine in August 2021. Malone has promoted hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin as COVID-19 treatments. In November 2021, Malone shared a deceptive video on Twitter that falsely linked athlete deaths to COVID-19 vaccines. In particular, the video suggested that Jake West, a 17-year-old Indiana high school football player who succumbed to sudden cardiac arrest, had actually died from COVID-19 vaccination. However, West had died years earlier, in 2013, due to an undiagnosed heart condition. Malone deleted the video from his Twitter account after receiving a cease-and-desist letter from West's family. Malone later said on Twitter that he did not know the video was doctored. On December 29, 2021, Twitter permanently suspended Malone from its platform, citing "repeated violations of our COVID-19 misinformation policy", after he shared on that platform a video about supposed harmful effects of the Pfizer vaccine. In an April 1, 2022 interview, Malone made the unfounded claim that COVID-19 vaccines are "damaging T cell responses" and "causing a form of AIDS". Malone claimed that he had "lots of scientific data" to back up his claim, but did not cite evidence. On December 30, 2021, Malone claimed on The Joe Rogan Experience podcast that "mass formation psychosis" was developing in American society in its reaction to COVID-19 just as during the rise of Nazi Germany. The term mass formation psychosis is not found in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, is not based on factual medical information, and is described by Steve Reicher, a professor of social psychology at the University of St Andrews, as "more metaphor than science, more ideology than fact." Clips of the podcast episode were removed by YouTube from their platform for violating the site's Community Guidelines. 270 physicians, scientists, academics, nurses and students wrote an open letter to Spotify complaining about the content of the podcast. On January 3, 2022, Congressman Troy Nehls entered a full transcript of The Joe Rogan Experience interview with Malone into the Congressional Record in order to circumvent what he said was censorship by social media. Malone has spoken at anti-vaccine and anti-vaccine-mandate rallies, including a January 2022 rally in front of the Lincoln Memorial in Washington, D.C. and a March 2022 rally in Santa Barbara, California. As of April 2022, Malone has more than 134,000 subscribers on his Substack subscription newsletter. According to media research firm Zignal Labs, Malone has been mentioned more than 300,000 times on social media, cable television, and print or online news outlets.
So, your opinion comes from Dr Malone himself and maybe only from Dr Malone. Have you bothered to read any of the criticism of Dr Malone? Have you looked at any of the actual data about the efficacy of the COVID-19 vaccines? It seems not.JVL
July 28, 2022
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It was the CDC giving accurate data on deaths, with 1% of those who died having nothing else. The elderly, which we knew about, were the ones at greatest risk. So shut down the world and bring on a shot that is not a vaccine for everyone? Vaccines prevent people from getting a virus, like polio and smallpox. Inoculations are for things like influenza. You can get influenza with or without a shot. It helps most and causes influenza in a few. They all have the virus targeted in them. COVID does not, which is why it fails. Dr. Scot Atlas tried to tell President Trump not to lock down the country. We should be going for herd immunity. He is the biggest expert in the field and ignored. He listened to Fauci. Birx admitted that she lied and altered numbers to make things appear worse than they actually are to bring on shots that would do nothing. She and Fauci both knew they were ineffective. MRNA is a relatively new technology. It is believed to tremendous potential, including curing cancer. It will be years of legitimate testing before we know for certain. Dr. Robert Malone co-created the mRNA shot and made clear it should not be used. Rather than listen to one of the few people in the world who knows what they are talking about, he was ignored. They wanted a test on the general population without even a year of testing. COVID was used as an excuse to test the world.BobRyan
July 28, 2022
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BR at 62, Do you think billionaires don't know what they're doing? Now, in the U.S., so-called "inflation" is vacuuming money out of out wallets. Companies are making record profits. They want that extra money we got from the frying pan-schmemik back in their hands. Regarding the rest of your comments, the needle on my Prop-O-Ganda meter kept going into the red. Quit posting crap.relatd
July 27, 2022
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LCD at 61, I have put Bill Gates on "ignore."relatd
July 27, 2022
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BobRyan: Here is a breakdown from the CDC that shows comorbidities. Towards the bottom is a chart that shows only 1% of deaths are only COVID. Everything else has at least 1. As the page you linked to clearly says:
This webpage provides an evidence-based resource for healthcare professionals caring for patients with underlying medical conditions who are at higher risk of developing severe outcomes of COVID-19. Severe outcomes of COVID-19 are defined as hospitalization, admission to the intensive care unit (ICU), intubation or mechanical ventilation, or death.
People with underlying medical conditions are much more likely to get tipped over the edge if they get COVID-19 is the point.
We continue to learn more about the risk factors for severe COVID-19 outcomes. Although age is the strongest risk factor for severe COVID-19 outcomes, patients with certain underlying medical conditions are also at higher risk. The more underlying conditions a person has, the higher the risk for severe COVID-19 outcomes.
Age remains the strongest risk factor for severe COVID-19 outcomes. Approximately 54.1 million people aged 65 years or older reside in the United States; in 2020, this age group accounted for 81% of U.S. COVID-19 related deaths. As of May 23, 2022 (CDC COVID Data Tracker), the proportion of deaths in this group was more than 42 times than those aged 30-39 years. In 2020, residents of long-term care facilities made up less than 1% of the U.S. population but accounted for more than 35% of all COVID-19 deaths.
None of this is surprising and would be true for many, many other diseases: if you already have some problems getting another one is much more likely to kill you than if you were otherwise healthy. That makes perfectly good sense. And guess which population group has the most pre-existing or underlying problems? The elderly. Also, you were wrong about the 1%. The 1 you noticed (as is clearly said in the chart heading) is the death risk ratio for people with no conditions. The whole point of this publication is to point out that physicians and medical professionals should be aware that certain groups (especially the elderly and those with pre-existing conditions) are much more likely to have serious symptoms or death if they catch COVID-19. You didn't fully read the statements and you mis-interpreted a chart and then twisted your impressions to fit your own pre-existing condition/bias.JVL
July 27, 2022
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Vividbleau: JVL you are so predictable. In over 50 years I do not know anyone that was vaccinated for small pox or polio who contracted polio or small pox. Contrast that with the double vaxed COVID shot, I know of at least 20!!How many people do you know personally that got polio or small pox after their vaccination? I don't know any but I posted a quote explaining that it does happen with the oral polio vaccine at a rate of about 3 per 1 million doses so it's not surprising that I don't know anyone. And yes, I was a child in the early 60s and had my initial polio vaccine on a sugar cube or in a paper cup like many people did. I also received another dose in the 90s before travelling to a part of the world where polio was still prevalent based on the advice of the CDC and my (then) local health care provider. It cost me $5. I didn't get ill or get polio either time. You seem to have a very simplistic notion that all vaccines have or should have the same efficacy rates and chances of side effects, etc. This is clearly not the case and if you really wanted to learn about such things you could easily look it up. But you don't, preferring to rely on anecdotes and personal experiences. Why don't you look at the actual data instead? Are you worried that your beliefs might be challenged or even disproven? The scientific approach is to look at all the challenges to your ideas and see if they stay standing after that. Maybe you should try that.JVL
July 27, 2022
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Most sites include influenza in their numbers to amp up the deaths. It is one of many comorbidities that leads to death in all but a few cases. Here is a breakdown from the CDC that shows comorbidities. Towards the bottom is a chart that shows only 1% of deaths are only COVID. Everything else has at least 1. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/clinical-care/underlyingconditions.htmlBobRyan
July 27, 2022
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Name a single country or state that locked down and had success? The only thing it did was destroy the global economy. Vaccines, unlike flu shots, prevent most people from getting a given virus. It takes at least a decade to develop. 3 years for animal testing, and 7 for human. Most do not make it past the human testing phase. Did a rushed program with new technology stop anything? No. People who get the shots still get the disease. It is not a vaccine. Vaccines work. Here is an actual breakdown by state. You do not find higher deaths per capita. They also did not have all the negative things that happened in states that shut down, like suicides and ODs. https://www.americanexperiment.org/states-that-stayed-open-fared-much-better-than-states-that-shut-down/BobRyan
July 27, 2022
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2018: "The next deadly disease that will cause a global pandemic is coming, Bill Gates said on Friday at a discussion of epidemics." :lol: Enough said.Lieutenant Commander Data
July 26, 2022
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JVL Vividbleau: That probably no one you know got small pox or polio after getting vaccinated? “Doesn’t mean it didn’t happen though.” JVL you are so predictable. In over 50 years I do not know anyone that was vaccinated for small pox or polio who contracted polio or small pox. Contrast that with the double vaxed COVID shot, I know of at least 20!!How many people do you know personally that got polio or small pox after their vaccination? Vividvividbleau
July 26, 2022
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