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Atheism’s problem of warrant (–> being, Logic and First Principles, No. 23)

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Atheism seems to be on the table these days here at UD and a few points need clarification.

First up, what is Atheism?

The usual dictionaries are consistent:

atheism
n. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
[French athéisme, from athée, atheist, from Greek atheos, godless : a-, without; see a-1 + theos, god; see dh?s- in Indo-European roots.]

American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition. Copyright © 2016 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. All rights reserved.

atheism
n (Philosophy) rejection of belief in God or gods
[C16: from French athéisme, from Greek atheos godless, from a-1 + theos god]
Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged, 12th Edition 2014 © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2014

a•the•ism
n. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
[1580–90]
Random House Kernerman Webster’s College Dictionary, © 2010 K Dictionaries Ltd. Copyright 2005, 1997, 1991 by Random House, Inc. All rights reserved.

atheism
the absolute denial of the existence of God or any other gods.
-Ologies & -Isms. Copyright 2008 The Gale Group, Inc. All rights reserved.

However, from at least the 1880’s, there has been a claim by some advocates of the same, that what is meant is someone without faith in God.

(This tends to serve the rhetorical purpose of claiming that nothing is asserted and it can be taken as default, demanding that theists provide “compelling” warrant for faith in God. Where, often, this then leads to selectively hyperskeptical dismissals, sometimes to the degree of claiming that “there is no evidence” that supports the existence of God. [Of course, the no evidence gambit should usually be taken as implying ” there is no evidence [that I am willing to acknowledge].” Through that loophole, as fair comment, a lot of clearly question-beggingly closed minded hyperskepticism can be driven.)

There are many varieties of atheists, including idealistic ones that reject the reality of matter. However at this juncture in our civilisation, the relevant form is evolutionary materialistic, often associated with the scientism that holds that big-S Science effectively monopolises credible knowledge. (Never mind that such a view is an epistemological [thus philosophical and self-refuting] view. Evolutionary materialism is also self-refuting by way of undermining the credibility of mind.)

A key take-home point is that atheism is not an isolated view or belief, it is part of a wider worldview, where every worldview needs to be responsible before the bar of comparative difficulties: factual adequacy, coherence, balanced explanatory power. Likewise, given the tendency of modern atheism to dress up in a lab coat, we must also reckon with fellow travellers who do not explicitly avow atheism but clearly enable it.

So, already, we can see that atheism is best understood as disbelief — NB, Dicts: “refusal or reluctance to believe”/ “the inability or refusal to believe or to accept something as true” — in the existence of God, claimed or implied to be a well warranted view; not merely having doubts about God’s existence or thinking one does not know enough to hold a strong opinion. It inevitably exists as a part of a broader philosophical scheme, a worldview, and will imply therefore a cultural agenda.

(I add: Note by contrast, AmHD on agnosticism: “The belief that the existence or nonexistence of a deity or deities cannot be known with certainty. “ Where, of course, certainty comes in various degrees, starting with moral certainty, and where knowledge, as commonly used often speaks to credibly warranted beliefs taken as true but not typically held as utterly certain beyond any possibility of error or incompleteness. We not only know that 2 + 3 = 5, but we claim knowledge of less than utterly certain facts and theories. For instance, in the mid 2000’s, the previous understanding and “fact” that Pluto was the 9th Planet of our solar system was revised through redefining Pluto as a dwarf planet.)

It will be further helpful (given objections that suggest inapt, distorted caricature) to excerpt from the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, as appears at comment 11:

“Atheism” is typically defined in terms of “theism”. Theism, in turn, is best understood as a proposition—something that is either true or false. It is often defined as “the belief that God exists”, but here “belief” means “something believed”. It refers to the propositional content of belief, not to the attitude or psychological state of believing. This is why it makes sense to say that theism is true or false and to argue for or against theism. If, however, “atheism” is defined in terms of theism and theism is the proposition that God exists and not the psychological condition of believing that there is a God, then it follows that atheism is not the absence of the psychological condition of believing that God exists (more on this below). The “a-” in “atheism” must be understood as negation instead of absence, as “not” instead of “without”. Therefore, in philosophy at least, atheism should be construed as the proposition that God does not exist (or, more broadly, the proposition that there are no gods).

This definition has the added virtue of making atheism a direct answer to one of the most important metaphysical questions in philosophy of religion, namely, “Is there a God?” There are only two possible direct answers to this question: “yes”, which is theism, and “no”, which is atheism. Answers like “I don’t know”, “no one knows”, “I don’t care”, “an affirmative answer has never been established”, or “the question is meaningless” are not direct answers to this question.

While identifying atheism with the metaphysical claim that there is no God (or that there are no gods) is particularly useful for doing philosophy, it is important to recognize that the term “atheism” is polysemous—i.e., it has more than one related meaning—even within philosophy. For example, many writers at least implicitly identify atheism with a positive metaphysical theory like naturalism or even materialism. Given this sense of the word, the meaning of “atheism” is not straightforwardly derived from the meaning of “theism”. . . . .

[A] few philosophers and quite a few non-philosophers claim that “atheism” shouldn’t be defined as a proposition at all, even if theism is a proposition. Instead, “atheism” should be defined as a psychological state: the state of not believing in the existence of God (or gods). This view was famously proposed by the philosopher Antony Flew and arguably played a role in his (1972) defense of an alleged presumption of “atheism”. The editors of the Oxford Handbook of Atheism (Bullivant & Ruse 2013) also favor this definition and one of them, Stephen Bullivant (2013), defends it on grounds of scholarly utility. His argument is that this definition can best serve as an umbrella term for a wide variety of positions that have been identified with atheism. Scholars can then use adjectives like “strong” and “weak” to develop a taxonomy that differentiates various specific atheisms. Unfortunately, this argument overlooks the fact that, if atheism is defined as a psychological state, then no proposition can count as a form of atheism because a proposition is not a psychological state. This undermines his argument in defense of Flew’s definition; for it implies that what he calls “strong atheism”—the proposition (or belief in the sense of “something believed”) that there is no God—is not really a variety of atheism at all. In short, his proposed “umbrella” term leaves strong atheism out in the rain. [–> which makes little sense]

Although Flew’s definition of “atheism” [thus] fails as an umbrella term, it is certainly a legitimate definition in the sense that it reports how a significant number of people use the term. Again, there is more than one “correct” definition of “atheism”. The issue for philosophy is which definition is the most useful for scholarly or, more narrowly, philosophical purposes.

We can go further.

For, we all have intellectual duties of care in general and as regards worldviews and linked cultural agendas. There are particular, inescapable associated duties to truth, right reason, prudence (including warrant), sound conscience, fairness, justice, etc. To see why such are inescapable, consider the consequences of a widespread rejection of such duties: ruinous chaos that would undermine rationality itself. Reason is morally governed.

Also, given that post Godel, not even sufficiently complex mathematical systems are subject to proof beyond doubt, that one cannot provide absolute demonstration is not at all the same as that one does not have adequate warrant to hold responsible certainty about key points of knowledge. In this context, the issue is reasonable, responsible faith in a credible worldview. Where, the claim one has “absence of belief in” God is often patently evasive. Why such a strange lack?

Could it be that one knows enough to realise that trying to disprove the reality of God is an almost impossible task, once there is no demonstrable incoherence in the theistic concept of God? (Where, we note, that the old attempt to use the problem of evil to lead to such a contradiction has failed; a failure that is particularly evident, post-Plantinga.)

Now, such is significant, especially given point 7 from the recently cited six-country study on atheists:

7. Also perhaps challenging common suppositions: with
only a few exceptions, atheists and agnostics endorse
the realities of objective moral values, human dignity and
attendant rights, and the ‘deep value’ of nature, at similar
rates to the general populations in their countries. (3.1)

A key to this, is the already mentioned point that our mental lives are inescapably under moral government, through undeniably known duties to “truth, right reason, prudence (including warrant), sound conscience, fairness, justice, etc.” The attempt to deny such rapidly undercuts rational discussion and the credibility of thought and communication, much as is implicit in what would happen were lying to be the norm. So, one who rejects the objectivity of such duties discredits himself.

However, it is also possible to hold an inconsistency; accepting objective morality but placing it in a framework that undermines it.

A start-point is to see that our rationality is morally governed through said duties. This means, our life of reason operates on both sides of the IS-OUGHT gap, requiring that it be bridged. That can only be done in the root of reality, on pain of ungrounded ought. And no, indoctrination, socialisation and even conscience do not ground ought. We need that the root of reality is inherently and essentially good and wise, a serious bill to fill.

You may dispute this (so, as a phil exercise, provide an alternative _____ and justify it _____ ), but it is easy to show that after many centuries of debates there is just one serious candidate: the inherently good, utterly wise creator God, a necessary and maximally great being. One, worthy of loyalty and of the reasonable, responsible service of doing the good that accords with our evident nature. This is the heart of ethical theism.

There is another angle. How much of reality do we know, how much of what is knowable do we actually hold, and how much of that is certain beyond future correction? The ratio is obviously trending infinitesimal; even dismissing Boltzmann brain scenarios, Matrix worlds and Plato’s cave worlds etc.

So, what if what is required to know God is, is beyond what one happens to know, or what one is willing to acknowledge?

In short, the positive affirmation that there is no God is arguably an act of intellectual irresponsibility, given our inability to show that being God is incoherent and our effectively infinitesimal grasp of what is knowable.

Let me add a table, as a reminder on logic of being:

Indeed, as it is easy to see that reality has a necessary being root (something of independent existence that therefore has neither beginning nor end), given that traversal of the transfinite in finite temporal-causal steps is a supertask and given that were there ever utter non-being, as such has no causal powers that would forever obtain, if a world now is, something thus always was. Thus, too, the question is: what that necessary being is, and that is further shaped by our being under moral government starting with our rationality.

Where also, a serious candidate to be a necessary being either is, or is impossible of being as a square circle is impossible of being. Where, a necessary being is a world-framework entity: a component of what is necessary for there to be any world. God as historically understood through theism is clearly such a serious candidate (if you doubt, kindly justify: ____ ), and so the one who poses as knowing that God is not implies having warrant to hold God impossible of being. Where, given the centrality of root of reality, ducking the question is clearly irresponsible.

In short, asserting or implying atheism requires a serious — and unmet — burden of warrant. END

Comments
SA@88, thank you. I promise to read it. I don’t promise to accept it, but, baby steps. :)Brother Brian
July 6, 2019
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BB
SA, thank you for the description of demonic possession. Very interesting.
I'm glad you found it interesting. I suggested more reading for you. This is another one that addresses some of the questions you have. https://heroicvirtuecreations.com/2015/07/06/a-new-demonology-book-discerns-demon-possession-or-mental-illness/Silver Asiatic
July 6, 2019
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F/N: Having already pointed out worldview considerations and the issue that on significant issues there are no universally accepted "proofs," I now want to highlight some approaches to modal-ontological discussions regarding God. Where, such are in the context that we need a necessary being root of reality. Here, I first focus Vladimir Šuši?, who has put up a useful discussion, pivoting on the concept of maximal greatness. I intend to use this, in part, to show the differences in my own discussion. I think that interleaving comments in square brackets will prove useful:
One often highly overlooked and rarely used argument is the Modal Ontological Argument. The reason why the Modal Ontological Argument (from now referred to as the MOA) is rarely used is not because it is in some way flawed or unsubstantiated, but because the concepts it is making use of [--> which originally emerged in part with Aristotle but were developed across C20 as first implication logic was elucidated and now have been extended to all sorts of similar issues] are often very hard for most people to grasp. [--> we are poorly educated on logic of being and linked ideas] The Craig/Plantinga argument goes like this: 1 It is possible that God [--> the theistic candidate world-root being] (the Maximally Great Being [--> which requires necessity of being]) exists 2 If it is possible that God exists, then God exists in some possible worlds [--> definition] 3 If God exists in some possible worlds, then God exists in all possible worlds [--> God is necessary] 4 If God exists in all possible worlds, then God exists in the actual world _____________ 5 (C) God therefore exists. Now, most people when they look at this argument usually “scratch their head and walk away”. The purpose of this article will be to explain the underlying concepts of the argument in the simplest ways possible and then address commonly raised objections, from both people who do not, and those that do understand its concepts. Firstly, the argument makes extensive use of Modal Logic. In simplest terms, Modal Logic usually deals with possibility, impossibility and necessity of beings. For this purpose, a “being” is simply defined as some conceivable concept, thing or person, whether such a being is possible, impossible or necessary. To explain this further, in Modal Logic, there exists a semantic of what we would call “possible worlds”. A possible world is simply defined as a conceivable world ruled by the laws of logic. An actual world, the world we live in is also a possible world, it can be conceived and it is ruled by the laws of logic. A possible world is not some universe, region of space or anything like that, although such beings can exist in possible worlds . . . . [L]et’s further expound on what kinds of beings we can have in Modal Logic. As hinted above, there exist 3 kinds of such beings: a Impossible beings: These are the beings that could not exist in any possible world. Examples would include square circles, four sided triangles, married bachelors etc. Such beings are plainly illogical and thus could not exist in any possible world. [--> Where, we may consider from the angle of candidate beings which, due to internal contradictions of core characteristics cannot exist in any world] b Possible (or Contingent) beings: These are the beings that could exist in some possible worlds but do not exist in others. Examples would include unicorns, humans, cars, planets etc. We can easily conceive of worlds with or without such beings. [--> note above on causal factors enabling such] c Necessary beings: These are the beings that must exist in every possible world such as for example numbers and mathematical axioms (if they have concrete existence), laws of logic etc. Anything that could, could not, does or does not exist can be put in these 3 categories. [--> exhaustive listing by analysis of alternatives] Thus the question arises, in which one do we put God? God is properly defined as a Maximally Great Being. A Maximally Great Being would be the greatest conceivable being. A Maximally Great Being is an Omnipotent (All Powerful), Omniscient (All Knowing), Morally Perfect being that Necessarily exists. [--> note, candidacy issue] Now, why would it be the case that if God exists in a single possible world he exists in all of them? [--> see why it is important to identify that NB's are framework for a world to exist and are independent of on/off enabling causes] Join me now, in trying to conceive a being that would possess the Maximallity of Great Making Properties, let us try to conceive of THE Maximally Great Being. We can conceive of a variety of beings in possible worlds, but if we ought conceive of THE Maximally Great Being, we have to assign it certain specific attributes. It is certainly a great making property to be maximally powerful, as such, a Maximally Great Being, ought have maximal power, that is, Omnipotence. It is also certainly a great making property to know all things that can possibly be known, as such, a Maximally Great Being, ought have maximal knowledge, that is, Omniscience. It is also certainly a great making property for one’s nature to represent THE Moral Standard of conduct, as such, a Maximally Great Being, ought be Morally Perfect. [--> Note, my discussion on our being morally governed and how this requires a bridge between IS and OUGHT only feasible in the root of reality. So we need an inherently good, utterly wise world-root being] Certainly, all of this is the case, but could we conceive of even a greater being, than the one who possesses these 3 Great Making Properties? Well, we think one can indeed do that. [--> this is an unfolding of maximal greatness, with necessity of being as key, where we need a necessary world root being] If we ought talk of a Maximally Great Being, an attribute that one cannot fail to exist would also most certainly be great making. As such, an attribute of Necessity has to be added. [--> I think, coming from this end, it may seem arbitrary, but considering the need for an adequate world root, and seeing that there are world framework beings, that arbitrariness is removed] Now, if this is the case, what changes? Well, if there exists, in one possible world, a being that cannot fail to exist, then necessarily, by the implications of its existence in a single possible world, which grants it possibility of existence, such a being has to exist in all possible worlds, as it is necessary. If it failed to exist in all possible worlds, it couldn’t exist in the single possible world we originally conceived of it in, since its attribute of necessity would not be exemplified, and as such we would not have this being. If this being is possible in a single possible world, it means that its attribute, of “cannot fail to exist” is validated, and as such, implies its existence in all possible worlds. (This paragraph is the key to understanding the argument and ought be reread and studied several times). Of course, if God is not possible, then he cannot exist. [--> implies a challenge to show the idea of God being considered is incoherent. A contingent being is causally dependent on an external, enabling factor or factors and so cannot be a necessary being world root] Norman Malcolm correctly stated that God is either Impossible or Necessary. He CAN NOT be simply Possible. This is thus the very climax of the MOA: You either have to demonstrate that God is Impossible, or accept that God exists, and exists necessarily. [--> once you recognise that a panoply of possible worlds is conceivable and that reality requires a necessary being world root]
So, I am not outright rejecting this argument but consider that as here formulated -- a fairly typical case -- it lacks a wider context that removes a sense of arbitrariness often asserted as defining God into existence and concluding, he exists. The in-short is, premise 1 does the heavy lifting and needs to be well buttressed: "It is possible that God [--> the theistic candidate world-root being] (the Maximally Great Being [--> which requires necessity of being]) exists." I think it is seriously arguable that reality requires a necessary being world root. In a world that includes morally governed creatures, such needs to be inherently good. Also, a serious candidate necessary being is either impossible of being or else if possible then framework for any world to exist thus actual as a world exists. The issue is to provide these prior, background considerations, or the skeletal argument will seem arbitrary. Unfortunately, this is not a day that is patient of such detailed case-making. I note from later:
in the words of Shaun Doyle of CMI . . . “Many people when they hear “It’s possible that God doesn’t exist” don’t hear what the first premise is actually positing. They hear things like “As far as I know, God might not exist” or “God could’ve existed, but doesn’t actually exist”. Neither of these are right; the first is an issue of what we know, not an issue of what’s really possible, and the second makes God out to be a contingent being, which is nonsense. Rather, it’s asserting that ‘God’ possibly can’t exist, like how we could assert that ‘married bachelors’ possibly can’t exist. Remember that part of the definition of ‘God’ these arguments work with is that ‘God’ cannot fail to exist. In other words, the first premise isn’t simply asserting the idea that God might exist, but doesn’t actually exist; it’s asserting that the concept of God is possibly incoherent.” (1)
The confusion of epistemology for ontology is a serious problem indeed, and this is about dialectics, not rhetoric. We need to first appreciate the logic of being and its power, hence my approach above. Then, we need to recognise why we need a necessary world-root being and why that needs to ground moral government. In that context, we need to realise that our reasoning is itself morally governed. KFkairosfocus
July 6, 2019
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SA, thank you for the description of demonic possession. Very interesting. But KF’s comment about having a discussion with Haitian Christians peaked by curiosity. Why would Haitian Christians have more insight into demonic possession than any other Christian community? [--> Because of a national circumstance tied to their history] Is it possible that communities that repeatedly warn about demons and demonic possession report higher incidents due to a self-fulfilling prophecy? [--> there you go on projections of delusion again. Go speak to those with significant experience and evaluate them in light of sound principles of evidence] Are they more willing to ascribe uncharacteristic or undesired behaviours from loved ones to demonic possession than those less immersed in that community? [--> You are already dismissing before you hear what sort of cases and experiences will be reported, when actually it is fairly easy to find reports of practising, trained exorcists] And, throughout history, how many schizophrenics have been “diagnosed” as being possessed? [--> the delusion thesis again. Schizophrenia etc do not confer abilities to speak in never learned languages, or to reveal secrets, or superhuman physical power or levitation and many other observed and recorded phenomena. You also conveniently leave out why psychiatric or psychological professionals are in fact often brought in to help evaluate cases before concluding that this is demonisation not mere mental illness. I trust this will be enough correction to now allow the thread to refocus on a major worldview issue.]Brother Brian
July 6, 2019
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KF
BB, I could waste time on a distraction...
Translation: I can’t justify why BB is hyperskeptical and I am not, and I can’t admit that I was in error, so I will attack the motivations of BB. [--> you have immediately, consistently reacted to eyewitness testimony with arguments that fail to address how the quality of such testimony can be evaluated. You also fail to realise that recording devices etc can also be problematic and dependent on eyewitness evidence, chain of custody etc. I took time to link and to actually provide a useful summary but you continued, now turning to a turnabout ad hominem. It is you who directly implied above, more than once, that I am a liar or utterly delusional. Stop it.]
BTW, I also find your not so subtle insinuation that I am lying or grossly deluded is seriously out of order.
I have never said that you were grossly deluded or lying. [--> direct implication, cf several times above.] I even stated a couple times that I think that you firmly believe what you claim to have seen. All I have suggested is that there might be another explanation [--> i.e, I am deluded, the lying part is on my report of a large number of other witnesses which you immediately and repeatedly dismissed by oh no it's just one. We were not born yesterday.] and that you might have misinterpreted what you saw. [--> I did not misinterpret nor did the others who were there, you jump to self-serving conclusions and imply I lied when I spoke of others who were there] That you take this as a personal insult says more about you than it does about me [--> Really, you are deluded and/or a liar, how dare you take that as uncivil and object.]Brother Brian
July 6, 2019
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BB, I could waste time on a distraction that I know from the inside is barking up the wrong tree (where on track record no correction will ever suffice, save to spin out further distractions) or I could issue a correction and return to focus. BTW, I also find your not so subtle insinuation that I am lying or grossly deluded is seriously out of order. I am returning the thread to focus, having issued a correction by way of laying out principles of evidence you were pointed to by way of a link but obviously ignored. KFkairosfocus
July 6, 2019
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KF@182, you have a knack for avoiding questions that you can’t answer without conceding your opponent’s point. Let’s try again, using numbering that you are so fond of. 1) you claim that I am being selectively hyperskeptical about your account of levitation because I suggest that there might be another explanation. 2) the only evidence we have is your account and your claim that there were dozens of other witnesses. 3) you have not provided any reports from these dozens of witnesses. 4) you suggest that there might be a non-alien explanation for my claim of alien abduction, witnessed by dozens of people. 5) you suggest that you might consider my claim dependent on the reports from the dozens of witnesses I claim witnessed my abduction. Why am I hyperskeptical but you are not? The evidence for both is identical. One claim each with a claim of dozens of witnesses each. Neither have provided witness reports.Brother Brian
July 6, 2019
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BB, I already pointed you to a 101 on evidence. I simply re-link -- nah, let me also clip as a PS. It is clear that you wish to strain at a gnat while swallowing a camel. KF PS: From Simon Greenleaf:
perhaps the list of time-tested, common-sense based principles of wise reasoning worked out in Courts of Law over the centuries and collected by Simon Greenleaf in his assessment of the testimony of the evangelists -- cf. also his Evidence, Vols I, II and III [these, at Gutenberg] -- may prove useful: 1] THE ANCIENT DOCUMENTS RULE: Every document, apparently ancient, coming from the proper repository or custody, and bearing on its face no evident marks of forgery, the law presumes to be genuine, and devolves on the opposing party the burden of proving it to be otherwise. [p.16.] 2] Conversance: In matters of public and general interest, all persons must be presumed to be conversant, on the principle that individuals are presumed to be conversant with their own affairs. [p. 17.] 3] On Inquiries and Reports: If [a report] were "the result of inquiries, made under competent public authority, concerning matters in which the public are concerned" it would . . . be legally admissible . . . To entitle such results, however, to our full confidence, it is not necessary that they be obtained under a legal commission; it is sufficient if the inquiry is gravely undertaken and pursued, by a person of competent intelligence, sagacity and integrity. The request of a person in authority, or a desire to serve the public, are, to all moral intents, as sufficient a motive as a legal commission. [p. 25.] 4] Probability of Truthfulness: In trials of fact, by oral testimony, the proper inquiry is not whether it is possible that the testimony may be false, but whether there is a sufficient probability that it is true. [p. 28.] 5] Criteria of Proof: A proposition of fact is proved, when its truth is established by competent and satisfactory evidence. By competent evidence is meant such as the nature of the thing to be proved requires; and by satisfactory evidence is meant that amount of proof, which ordinarily satisfies an unprejudiced mind, beyond any reasonable doubt. [pp. 28 - 9.] 6] Credibility of Witnesses: In the absence of circumstances which generate suspicion, every witness is to be presumed credible, until the contrary is shown; the burden of impeaching his credibility lying on the objector. [p. 29] 7] Credit due to testimony: The credit due to the testimony of witnesses depends upon, firstly, their honesty; secondly, their ability; thirdly, their number and the consistency of their testimony; fourthly, the conformity of their testimony with experience; and fifthly, the coincidence of their testimony with collateral circumstances. [p.31.] 8] Ability of a Witness to speak truth: the ability of a witness to speak the truth depends on the opportunities which he has had for observing the facts, the accuracy of his powers of discerning, and the faithfulness of his memory in retaining the facts, once observed and known . . . It is always to be presumed that men are honest, and of sound mind, and of the average and ordinary degree of intelligence . . . Whenever an objection is raised in opposition to ordinary presumptions of law, or to the ordiary experience of mankind, the burden of proof is devolved on the objector. [pp. 33 - 4.] 9] Internal coherence and external corroboration: Every event which actually transpires has its appropriate relation and place in the vast complication of circumstances, of which the affairs of men consist; it owes its origin to the events which have preceded it, it is intimately connected with all others which occur at the same time and place, and often with those of remote regions, and in its turn gives birth to numberless others which succeed. In all this almost inconceivable contexture, and seeming discord, there is perfect harmony; and while the fact, which really happened, tallies exactly with every other contemporaneous incident, related to it in the remotest degree, it is not possible for the wit of man to invent a story, which, if closely compared with the actual occurrences of the same time and place, may not be shown to be false. [p. 39.] 10] Marks of false vs true testimony: a false witness will not willingly detail any circumstances in which his testimony will be open to contradiction, nor multiply them where there is a danger of his being detected by a comparison of them with other accounts, equally circumstantial . . . Therefore, it is, that variety and minuteness of detail are usually regarded as certain test[s] of sincerity, if the story, in the circumstances related, is of a nature capable of easy refutation, if it were false . . . . [False witnesses] are often copious and even profuse in their statements, as far as these may have been previously fabricated, and in relation to the principal matter; but beyond this, all will be reserved and meagre, from fear of detection . . . in the testimony of the true witness there is a visible and striking naturalness of manner, and an unaffected readiness and copiousness in the detail of circumstances, as well in one part of the narrative as another, and evidently without the least regard to the facility or difficulty of verification or detection . . . the increased number of witnesses to circumstances, and the increased number of circumstances themselves, all tend to increase the probability of detection if the witnesses are false . . . Thus the force of circumstantial evidence is found to depend on the number of particulars involved in the narrative; the difficulty of fabricating them all, if false, and the great facility of detection; the nature of the circumstances to be compared, and from which the dates and other facts to are be collected; the intricacy of the comparison; the number of intermediate steps in the process of deduction; and the circuity of the investigation. The more largely the narrative partake[s] of these characteristics, the further it will be found removed from all suspicion of contrivance or design, and the more profoundly the mind will rest in the conviction of its truth. [pp. 39 - 40.] 11] Procedure: let the witnesses be compared with themselves, with each other, and with surrounding facts and circumstances.[p. 42.] Here, we supplement: J W Montgomery observes of the NT accounts -- and following the McCloskey and Schoenberg framework for detecting perjury -- that the modern approach to assessing quality of such testimony focusses on identifying internal and external defects in the testimony and the witness: (a) Internal defects in the witness himself refer to any personal characteristics or past history tending to show that the "witness is inherently untrustworthy, unreliable, or undependable." (b) But perhaps the apostolic witnesses suffered from external defects, that is, "motives to falsify"? (c) Turning now to the testimony itself, we must ask if the New Testament writings are internally inconsistent or self-contradictory. (d) Finally, what about external defects in the testimony itself, i.e., inconsistencies between the New Testament accounts and what we know to be the case from archaeology or extra-biblical historical records? --> In each case, the answer is in favour of the quality of the NT, as can be observed here. 12] The degree of coherence expected of true witnesses: substantial truth, under circumstantial variety. There is enough of discrepancy to show that there could have been no previous concert among them, and at the same time such substantial agreement as to show that they all were independent narrators of the same great transaction, as the events actually occurred. [p.34. All cites from The Testimony of the Evangelists (Grand Rapids, MI: Kregel Classics, 1995).]
kairosfocus
July 6, 2019
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KF
you immediately projected hallucination or other error, in ways that manifestly showed selectively hyperskeptical closed mindedness and refusal to acknowledge the significance of eyewitness testimony...
Suggesting error or misinterpretation is not hyperskepticism. It is simply a logical possibility given the lack of any other accounts of the event.
As for an alien abduction, if a significant number of credible witnesses reported such, I would give consideration,...
So, me telling you that there were dozens of witnesses is not enough? You expect witness reports? Why do I require a burden of proof that you do not?
though I suspect my first suspects would be closer to home, bearing familiar ugly alphabet-soup initials.
So, you suspecting another explanation is logical, rational and warranted, yet me suspecting another explanation is selective hyperskepticism. Why the double standard? We are either both skeptical for valid reasons or we are not.
I repeat, as at now, the credible eyewitness is again the gold standard.
Tell that to the thousands of people wrongfully convicted based on eyewitness testimony. Ask any prosecuting attorney, they will take hard evidence (including surveillance cameras) over eyewitness testimony any day.Brother Brian
July 6, 2019
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BB, you immediately projected hallucination or other error, in ways that manifestly showed selectively hyperskeptical closed mindedness and refusal to acknowledge the significance of eyewitness testimony -- as was shown by blanket dismissal. I speak as one of many eyewitnesses to something that obviously cuts across your worldview and your reaction was, it cannot be actually true. I just note, we did not see "demonic possession," we saw a dead limp body elevated so that the well lighted ceramic tile floor underneath was visible; the elevation was not consistent with normal behaviour of bodies, and repeated several times across over an hour by my recall of duration.There was no trickery, there were no invisible wires etc, no attention was drawn to what was going on, the focus was on other things tied to helping the victim, there was a significant context that is consistent with occultic, demonic attack. I should add, there were and are dozens of eyewitnesses but we have not the slightest interest in entertaining media games given the sort of behaviours we have routinely seen. There is a victim, there is a family, there are various people here and in Antigua who were involved. We know what we dealt with and the hyperskeptical denial games that are so drearily familiar only tell us just how far off the rails our civilisation has gone. If you want a case with witnesses and media reports, one was linked above (also see here also here from BBC); notice the shocked police and health care officials who started with a child abuse assumption then changed their minds. Note, report that fresh battery recording devices mysteriously failed in that case, though there is now a linked recording. BTW, cases with large numbers of eyewitnesses go back across centuries, this is not utterly unknown. Indeed, for me it underscores how the discovery of coded language and algorithms in the heart of the cell can be taught in every high school while the obvious import of design is suppressed. As for an alien abduction, if a significant number of credible witnesses reported such, I would give consideration, though I suspect my first suspects would be closer to home, bearing familiar ugly alphabet-soup initials. If such known abusive and corrupt agencies with billion dollar resources were eliminated, I would be open to extra solar system agencies. Worse, I would not put a partnership with such beyond the usual suspects. As to your naive trust in videos etc, deep fakes using AI now exist, you need to drastically recalibrate your estimation of what evidence is credible. Especially with the next US election cycle on the table. I repeat, as at now, the credible eyewitness is again the gold standard. KF PS: I add, that my overall impression is that this is largely distractive from a very serious logic of being issue and linked challenge of worldview warrant faced by atheists, agnostics and fellow travellers including you.kairosfocus
July 6, 2019
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SA, It is hard to deny that we live in a world with temporal-causal succession. At micro and macro [cosmological] scales, that points to heat death as energy concentrations dissipate, through the implications of thermodynamics. A beginningless temporal causal succession of the observed and hypothesised wider cosmos is not credible. The point above is that utter non-being cannot account for reality, and it implies that reality embeds eternality. That points beyond a matter-energy, space-time, temporal-causal order. That cannot be side-stepped, the underlying reasons are too general and are too empirically warranted. Evolutionary materialistic scientism has some fairly big questions to answer. KFkairosfocus
July 6, 2019
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KF
you proceed to further show the real problems of selective hyperskepticism, likely driven by your obvious a priori commitment to evolutionary materialistic scientism.
You keep misrepresenting my doubt of the actual “levitation” you refer to as hyperskepticism. You have presented one account of demonic possession, presented by someone who firmly believes in demonic possession. You claim that there were dozens of witnesses to this but are unable to link us to a single other account of this event. Surely you aren’t the only one on the island with internet access. My skepticism of what actually happened, not with your belief in what happened, is based on reason, logic and over 60 years of experience and observation. Let’s look at it from a different perspective. What if I said that I was abducted by aliens, taken into their spaceship, and probed? And what if I said that this event was witnessed by dozens of other people but that there were no videos taken, and I couldn’t provide any documented accounts from any of these witnesses? Would you be skeptical of the reality of my account? I am not asking if you thought that I believed it was true, I am asking if you would believe that it is true. And if you were skeptical, would I be justified to claim that you were being selectively hyperskeptical?Brother Brian
July 6, 2019
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KF
The issue of non-being comes up too, and we have the stark implication that were there ever utter nothing such would forever obtain. So, if a world now is, SOMETHING always was.
That is a good starting point. There should be an agreement here, and then a conversation could go forward. However, I can imagine a hyper-skeptical approach that would even deny that initial point. It is like Krauss' "universe from nothing". To avoid having to affirm a universal conclusion, some magic is invoked or some irrational process.Silver Asiatic
July 6, 2019
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SA, Heh. To be clear, I actually didn't read any of the books completely. I discussed them with my wife (very briefly) and read a little about them from other sources.daveS
July 6, 2019
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DS
I found it to be quite incredible, in the literal sense, yet fascinating at the same time.
I agree with incredible, in the literal sense. I admire your willingness to read it. I just couldn't bring myself to sit through even one in that series.Silver Asiatic
July 6, 2019
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DS, I suggest that the gift of mind and that of thirst to credibly know are just that, gifts. If you want evidence of a titanic spiritual war ranging from our hearts to our world, start by reading the White Rose pamphlets and comparing the Barmen declaration. Lewis wrote The Screwtape Letters against the backdrop of that same war. KFkairosfocus
July 6, 2019
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SA,
I’d suggest also that your interest in this topic, and you taking time to read what I say about it, is an indication of goodness from God in your life, opening up a different pathway of knowledge.
That's possible, although I might chalk it up to simple curiosity. I've always been interested in things that are completely outside my experience, but which other people firmly believe exist. As an example, my wife used to faithfully read every book in the Left Behind series when it came out. She felt that although it's fiction, it probably is a fair depiction of what things will be like during the end times (I don't know if she still holds those views). I found it to be quite incredible, in the literal sense, yet fascinating at the same time. This is when I learned that many Christians believe there are these tremendous battles going on between supernatural beings all the time, that dwarf anything you would read about in a science fiction novel. Anyway, it's a radically different "model" from mine, so it probably opened my mind to how others think and helped me understand their views better.daveS
July 6, 2019
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PS: Yes, I know this is taking many of us into domains of thought that are strange indeed. Yes, strange but important (notice how the domains of mathematics and logic "naturally" emerge and are given powerful relevance as necessary entities corollary on there being a world with distinct identity) -- blame the impoverishment of our current dumbed down education system that has so often robbed us of tools useful to think with. What are we going to do in a world where the UK has had to put in place a compulsory Computing curriculum from age 5 to survive competitively in the era ahead? At least, streaming, multimedia and even blog technology allow us to set up independent education. Here is a useful primer on modal logic: http://faculty.georgetown.edu/kuhns/supp_files/Routledge.pdf and here is another: https://mally.stanford.edu/notes.pdfkairosfocus
July 6, 2019
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F/N What does it mean to be possible of existence and for a world to be possible? A possible world, for our considerations, is a collection of propositions that sufficiently describe how a world is or may be. If a world is, it is actualised, it is real and the sufficient description tells the truth about that world, describing it accurately. generally, such a world will have its own attributes and will contain beings and dynamics that are described in such propositions. Now, a candidate being B will have defining, constitutive characteristics c1, c2 . . . cn. If two such characteristics stand in mutual contradiction, B will be impossible of being. A circle is possible, a square is possible but a circle square is not. A possible world therefore can contain circles and squares etc but not circle squares. In a world, beings must be possible in themselves and must be mutually consistent, or the world, considered as a composite entity, will be similarly incoherent and impossible. Core logic and being are inseparable. The common attempt to suggest that phil is about empty words and speculations unconnected to reality, fails. Indeed, Metaphysics with its component Ontology -- reality and being -- are core to philosophy, and indeed to other domains of knowledge. Where, the identity-consistency (and linked excluded middle) issues we just saw mean that logic of being (ontology) is absolutely central. As to what breathes fire into the propositions and gives actuality of some form, we have a world all around us that is physically instantiated. Similarly, we could consider that a world of abstract entities has some semblance of reality if it is contemplated by some mind or even simulated on some computational substrate. Possible worlds speak is implicitly conditional on minds to conceive/contemplate and on the existence of a reality in which at least one world is actual. We have already seen that non-being is the true nothingness, and that if there ever were utter non-being, such would forever obtain, so if a world now is, some domain of reality always was and must contain at least one instantiated world, ours of course being case zero. We have also discussed that candidate beings fall into diverse categories, impossible of being [as described just above], and possible of being. Of the latter, some are contingent, existing in some possible worlds but not in close neighbour worlds, where a missing factor is such that they are not. For example, it is possible that Mrs Clinton could be president of the USA in a nearby world, had she won the Electoral College vote in 2016 for the USA. (That system was designed to block domination by populous states, currently forcing some 50 local elections and opening up some interesting possibilities for electoral outcomes, such as actually happened.) We therefore have identified that the present/missing factor involved in a contingent being being actual or not actual in a given world is a dynamically or logically necessary, enabling causal factor. There may be many such for a contingent entity such as a fire: heat, oxidiser, fuel, combustion chain reaction . . . and we have seen that fluorine gas can make a brick burn at white heat. for a contingent being CB to exist, a sufficient cluster of causal factors is required, including all such on/off enabling factors. Also, contingent beings therefore exist in at least one possible world but do not exist in at least one possible world. We may also contemplate necessary beings, which exist in all possible worlds -- and so have no external, enabling on/off causal factors within worlds as then they would instead be contingent. What would such be? We have already seen how, for a world W to be distinct from a near neighbour W' there has to be some distinct attribute A such that W = {A|~A}, and that this then establishes as close corollaries, 0, 1, 2 thus the panoply of numbers N, Z, Q, R, C and more, up to the hyperreals and surreals. Worlds implicitly establish the law of identity and its corollaries, thus necessarily contain transfinitely many entities, starting with the core entities of structure and quantity, which is why mathematics and logic are so powerful as tools of thought. Such entities are a part of the framework for any distinct world to exist and so are co-extensive with the domain of possible worlds in reality. This directly implies that necessary beings are without beginning nor can they cease from being. it also identifies that we can understand them (an unfamiliar concept to most educated people nowadays, and sometimes spoken against) as parts of the framework for any world to exist; noting that as reality is, at least one world exists. This then sets up a context to ponder on God as a serious candidate necessary being. Where, we seek a reality-root being that accounts inter alia for our credibly contingent world [think, Big Bang etc] and contingent beings in it including us -- morally governed, rationally inferring creatures. Now, a serious candidate necessary being is either possible of being or impossible of being. If possible of being, then actual in at least one possible world, but as a necessary one, similarly framework for any world and so in all possible worlds including our own. Notice, possible worlds, not worlds we may imagine. Worlds that have to have in them a world root adequate for the worlds to exist and for at least one such world to have in it morally governed rational creatures, us. That points to an inherently good world root being with the wisdom and power to cause the existence of -- create -- all actual worlds, also to contemplate other possible worlds. And yes, that is close to the ethical theistic conception of God. Indeed, arguably, given the need to bridge the IS-OUGHT gap (only feasible at world-root, on pain of ungrounded ought), there is precisely one serious candidate after centuries of debates. Of course, if you deny, propose another ____ and cogently address comparative difficulties _______ . I freely summarise the candidate: the inherently good and utterly wise creator God, a necessary and maximally great being, worthy of our loyalty and of the reasonable, responsible service of doing the good that accords with our evident morally governed nature. (Yes, this points onward to natural law implanted in us by creation order as free responsible rational creatures, as a guiding compass. Such starts with the inescapably evident duties to truth, to right reason, to prudence [so, to warrant], to sound conscience [the Lord's candle within], to neighbourliness [so, the golden rule], to fairness and justice.) Finally, those who promote atheism and/or agnosticism [as opposed to mere doubt and lack of knowledge] therefore have a serious worldview warrant challenge. Including, if they reject or dismiss God, showing that God is not a serious candidate necessary being or that while he is, he is in fact impossible of being. Note,that maximal greatness implies, of possible beings, so for example, the idea of making a stone too heavy for God to lift and then using that to object to omnipotence, is an ill-founded objection. There are many others of like order. Let me add, from Catholic Enc, on omnipotence:
Omnipotence is the power of God to effect whatever is not intrinsically impossible. These last words of the definition do not imply any imperfection, since a power that extends to every possibility must be perfect. The universality of the object of the Divine power is not merely relative but absolute, so that the true nature of omnipotence is not clearly expressed by saying that God can do all things that are possible to Him; it requires the further statement that all things are possible to God. The intrinsically impossible is the self-contradictory, and its mutually exclusive elements could result only in nothingness. "Hence," says Thomas (Summa I, Q. xxv, a. 3), "it is more exact to say that the intrinsically impossible is incapable of production, than to say that God cannot produce it." To include the contradictory within the range of omnipotence, as does the Calvinist Vorstius, is to acknowledge the absurd as an object of the Divine intellect, and nothingness as an object of the Divine will and power. "God can do all things the accomplishment of which is a manifestation of power," says Hugh of St. Victor, "and He is almighty because He cannot be powerless" (De sacram., I, ii, 22). As intrinsically impossible must be classed: 1 Any action on the part of God which would be out of harmony with His nature and attributes; 2 Any action that would simultaneously connote mutually repellent elements, e.g. a square circle, an infinite creature, etc. . . .
KFkairosfocus
July 6, 2019
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F/N: What about "proofs" of God or arguments to God? Generally, we are taught that such arguments fail, and often some version of Aquinas' arguments are used as the demonstration. Though, in some cases, there are errors in how such are put. My first problem is with the notion of proof, meaning an argument that starts from a universally accepted framework of premises then works, step by inexorable step to a conclusion. Sounds great, until we realise that post Godel, not even Mathematics fulfills this model. So, where are we? I think the debate moves to which set of premises we accept and/or to what is the best explanation on comparative difficulties. Which run across factual adequacy, coherence and balanced explanatory power. (In turn, these require considerable unpacking.) Further, I think that we need to take the logic of being seriously, and where it points as regards candidates not possible of being, possible beings and of these, necessary vs. contingent ones. The issue of non-being comes up too, and we have the stark implication that were there ever utter nothing such would forever obtain. So, if a world now is, SOMETHING always was. We are debating across candidates to be such. This then sets the context for onward analysis. KFkairosfocus
July 5, 2019
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F/N: One of the issues that may come up is modal logic and S5. Here, Wiki may help:
Applications S5 is useful because it avoids superfluous iteration of qualifiers of different kinds. For example, under S5, if X is necessarily, possibly, necessarily, possibly true, then X is possibly true. Unbolded qualifiers before the final "possibly" are pruned in S5. While this is useful for keeping propositions reasonably short, it also might appear counter-intuitive in that, under S5, if something is possibly necessary, then it is necessary. Alvin Plantinga has argued that this feature of S5 is not, in fact, counter-intuitive. To justify, he reasons that if X is possibly necessary, it is necessary in at least one possible world; hence it is necessary in all possible worlds and thus is true in all possible worlds. Such reasoning underpins 'modal' formulations of the ontological argument.
I would augment by an interpretation of necessity of being that takes away what may appear arbitrary. Why would a necessary being be present in all possible worlds? Because, it is an aspect of the framework for a world to exist. In this case, serious candidacy to be necessary can also be interpreted, as being one step short of being demonstrably possibly necessary. That is, there are no obvious obstacles, but it is not confidently established that the entity may not be impossible of being or else possible but contingent. Where, before being taken seriously, contingency has to be addressed. KFkairosfocus
July 5, 2019
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SA, picking back up. I am convinced that as we learn to prize things like truth, right reason, prudence, justice, etc we will be blessed by the simple contemplation of the excellence of virtue. And as we turn to ponder the roots, that will lead us to the root of reality. A dingy, cynical, tainted, burnt out soul is not one rising to what it can be but one thwarted by vice. KFkairosfocus
July 5, 2019
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DS, I've been busy. I just note that the events we saw were quite strikingly clear. They are also not in my usual range of observations, so they were noteworthy. They for sure recalibrated my understanding of a lot of things including as I said Saturday morning cartoons. KF PS: I suggest, steer clear of Ouija boards and the like.kairosfocus
July 5, 2019
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C.S. Lewis' Screwtape Letters is pretty interesting on this topic.Silver Asiatic
July 5, 2019
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DaveS
One point that I believe you are making stands out: Demons prefer to remain hidden; in fact, they might see me as a “willing” host I suppose [or perhaps simply an ally], and therefore would not reveal themselves to me.
Yes, that's what I'm saying and I realize that does not sound very considerate if I proposed such a thing to you, but I'd just speak of my own experience. If I grow lax in spiritual exercise or I start to excuse moral lapses, life seems easier, more comfortable. When I am pushing myself to get closer to God, there is more opposition. I am in no way saying that you are abnormally or hopelessly evil, being in the clutches of Satan. I'm saying that we all have this presence trying to move us on the path that is "wide and easy, and many people go there". When we talk about demons, we are talking about Hell also. It all works together. There is a destination to our life. We have help from God towards one end-point, and help from demons towards the other. I'd suggest also that your interest in this topic, and you taking time to read what I say about it, is an indication of goodness from God in your life, opening up a different pathway of knowledge. While you have not experienced demonic influence, you may also not have experienced any spiritual awareness of God. A conflict between heaven and hell, good and evil, helps to put things in perspective. Another strange thing revealed by demons in possession is that while they prefer to be concealed, for reasons I gave, that's not their ideal status. There is some humiliation involved in the idea that "I have to hide myself or else everyone would run from me". For the demon, while it is necessary to hide to fulfill the goal (of capture) -- it is far better and more desired, if possible, to be worshipped outright by humans. That's really the goal. So, we hear of the sin of Idolatry. It is where people worship something other than God. An idea here is that the demon masquerades as something good. Glamor, money, power, pleasure. Humans give their attention and effort and interest. "Worship" of a sort. The demon is still hiding. However, a goal from this would be to have the human eventually establish a religion where the demon is worshipped openly, in all of his ugly splendor. So, something like Satanism would be an ideal here. So, it's interesting. In cases of possession, where there is an overt combat, information is revealed that teaches us a lot about what this activity is all about.Silver Asiatic
July 5, 2019
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SA, Thanks for the interesting perspective. One point that I believe you are making stands out: Demons prefer to remain hidden; in fact, they might see me as a "willing" host I suppose [or perhaps simply an ally], and therefore would not reveal themselves to me.daveS
July 5, 2019
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It was entertaining, but I don’t recall anything unusual happening. I should be a magnet for demons, but for some reason they leave me alone.
It's a paradox, but obvious manifestations of demonic activity in a person, or outright possession are not always simply a result of dabbling in superstition, or even of a sinful lifestyle. Demonic conflict can happen with people who are actually opposed to evil and are very virtuous. The case of Anneliese Michel (Emily Rose, as in the movie title) is one of those. In fact, she is being proposed for canonization as a saint. http://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/2015/06/anneliese-michel-unrecognized-and.html A big question is "assuming demons exist and do such things, what is the purpose?" There are a number of things revealed by demons in the course of exorcism. One of the interesting things is that sometimes, they are compelled by God to reveal their very ugly, frightening and powerful nature. That is, they are compelled against their own desire or best interest, to show themselves. They would prefer to remain concealed. If a person does not detect the presence of evil, in himself or in society, for example - is this a good thing? Well, not really, because evil is actually very present in the world. We could start there. Would it be rational to live as a human being on this earth and have no recognition of the evil that is within it? No. It would be blindness. There is great injustice, suffering, starvation, violence, persecution, theft, corruption … all this calls for a response of opposition from our own goodness. And this is just talking about the evil in the world around us. What about the evil within ourselves? Is it rational or reasonable to imagine that we have no evil tendencies or that we never commit sins? Well, we can be blind to it. If there is a devil hoping to keep us in a state of oblivion, quieting our conscience, then being blind to our own evil and never recognizing demonic influence is the best thing for him to do. So, as our conscience becomes stronger and more pure through the practice of virtue, we become more aware of evil, not less. We become more sensitive to spiritual matters. When we do this, it becomes more clear that we are being pushed, shaped, tempted, opposed and confronted by evil that is not our own doing, not in our own interest. We set ourselves to do good, but the good is opposed even within us. Why? Well, I'm not saying that it is easy or obvious to detect this spiritual conflict. In cases of overt possession, it is more obvious, but those are more rare. I recommended the books by Amorth. Three (of many possible) biographies I'd recommend are those of Jean Vianney, Francesco Forgione … and the website I posted has a page on Gemma Galgani. http://www.stgemmagalgani.com/ It's worth the research.Silver Asiatic
July 5, 2019
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KF
The answer is plumbline, self-evident test truths and credible first principles that then allow us to compare what is naturally straight and upright (a plumbline) to what is crooked or not upright. Then, we can proceed to a sounder reformed view. But, some are so locked in that they will dismiss a plumbline bearing a message they do not wish to hear. Resemblance to what is happening all over our civilisation is NOT coincidental.
Very good points. Truths and first principles are naturally straight, as you say. So, even these guidelines for human nature, have integrity. I just see a widespread corruption and degradation of humanity, however, and the goodness that is built-into nature itself, is twisted. I see the corruption in our culture as a reflection of damaged human-souls which have lost the innocence they should have. We are taught to believe that adulthood means cynicism and skepticism towards all things, but the fulfillment of adult maturity really is a deeper innocence, a more pure conscience and more robust virtue. We can see it in Socrates, Plato, Cicero … clarity of soul. Now, one may say that they were skeptical of false religious myths, but that's not accurate. Instead of embittered despair towards everything good, which is what people today often have, the men of virtue were direct in their condemnations (not merely skeptical) and they forceably promoted what is good (virtue, honor and piety given to God). So, even without the beautiful teaching of Christ (so much more advanced), the philosophers could conform themselves to the truth of reality. They treasured the gift of rational intellect and held truth in the highest esteem. They responded to the values of goodness that they saw in the nature of things, and in their own nature - and proposed that God is the creator of them.Silver Asiatic
July 5, 2019
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KF,
The wider issue of debasement and even reprobation of individual and general cultural mindset through pervasive hyperskepticism and cynicism is relevant. Ironically, that selectivity tied to polarisation then makes people hyper-credulous to those who tickle their itching ears with what they want to hear. So, we come to the crooked yardstick strategy of the agit prop operator: if such can induce us to swallow a crooked yardstick as standard of straightness, accuracy and uprightness, then when what is genuinely such comes along they will be rejected out of hand as they cannot fit with crookedness.
I for one don't reject your levitation account out of hand, but rather file it under "accounts of extraordinary events which I did not witness". Of course it could have been a case of genuine demonic possession. On the other hand, I have seen people make mistakes and misinterpret what is happening around them many times. Not once have I seen an events which suggests demonic possession, or anything else "paranormal". Therefore, if I were forced to render a judgement of your account, I would reason inductively and conclude no demons were involved. But there is no need for me to render such a judgement, so I leave the matter open. If I had actually witnessed this event, then the situation would be quite different. If the levitation were "obvious" enough, then I could be convinced on the spot of the presence of paranormal activity. If this person were floating a meter off the floor, then the evidence is clear. I do think it's odd that I have never witnessed any paranormal activity (assuming it exists). First, I'm a non-Christian who is curious about these things. I used to read books on the paranormal all the time. I have an aunt (almost the same age as me, so more like a cousin) who had a Ouija board and who would conduct quasi-seances when we were kids. It was entertaining, but I don't recall anything unusual happening. I should be a magnet for demons, but for some reason they leave me alone.daveS
July 5, 2019
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F/N: Webster's 1828, showing a longstanding understanding:
Atheism A'THEISM, noun The disbelief of the existence of a God, or Supreme intelligent Being. Atheism is a ferocious system that leaves nothing above us to excite awe, nor around us, to awaken tenderness.
Merriam Webster reflects the recent advocacy:
atheism noun athe·?ism | ??-th?-?i-z?m Definition of atheism 1a : a lack of belief or a strong disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods b : a philosophical or religious position characterized by disbelief in the existence of a god or any gods 2 archaic : godlessness especially in conduct : ungodliness, wickedness
The "lack of belief" claim is of course loaded. We live in a civilisation where theism is a major live option for worldviews. One who "lacks" belief in God does so through active choice to disbelieve, which rests on an explicit or implicit warrant. And, atheism is to be distinguished properly from Agnosticism, which through doubt about warrant leads to lack of belief clearly distinguishable from atheistical disbelief. Merriam-Webster:
agnosticism noun ag·?nos·?ti·?cism | ag-?nä-st?-?si-z?m , ?g- Definition of agnosticism : an agnostic quality, state, or attitude: a : the view that any ultimate reality (such as a deity) is unknown and probably unknowable : a philosophical or religious position characterized by uncertainty about the existence of a god or any gods Religious agnosticism may accept the ethical value of a religious way of living and even endorse religious ideas as a viable basis for understanding various aspects of human existence.— Gary Gutting
The degree of breakdown at work is visible in the same dictionary on theism:
theism noun the·?ism | ?th?-?i-z?m Definition of theism : belief in the existence of a god or gods specifically : belief in the existence of one God viewed as the creative source of the human race and the world who transcends yet is immanent in the world
Nope, "theism" is actually a short form of monotheism, and the choice of "a god" is diagnostic. When belief in many gods is intended [as notice my shift to common g] we speak of polytheism or henotheism. Such gods are of materially different ontological character than the God of ethical theism. Let me add, Webster's 1913:
Atheism A"the*ism (?), n. [Cf. F. athéisme. See Atheist.] 1. The disbelief or denial of the existence of a God, or supreme intelligent Being. Atheism is a ferocious system, that leaves nothing above us to excite awe, nor around us to awaken tenderness. R. Hall. Atheism and pantheism are often wrongly confounded. Shipley. 2. Godlessness.
The pivotal issue, clearly, is to soundly address logic of being and the linked question of the root of reality. KFkairosfocus
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