From The Poached Egg: How Darwinism dumbs us down

Bob O'H

No, infant mortality rates are about 0.5%, so murder rates must be less than that. Of course, I guess you mean abortions, but abortion rates in the US are also decreasing.

As they are in most western countries, even the most secular ones. Brother Brian

JAD, precisely, and sadly. When one radically relativises or subjectivises truth s/he loses the sense that self-referential incoherence is a strong demonstration of necessary falsity: each half overturns the other. The raw intelligence of a mind that may have huge natural power is hobbled by a self-defeating though currently institutionally dominant and culturally pervasive worldview. Let us realise, that the shadow shows are not reality and let us go out from the cave to a brighter, richer world. KF kairosfocus

Nancy Pearcey makes a couple of important points in the following excerpt:

The media paints the evolution controversy in terms of science versus religion. But it is much more accurate to say it is worldview versus worldview, philosophy versus philosophy. Making this point levels the playing field and opens the door to serious dialogue. Interestingly, a few evolutionists do acknowledge the point. Michael Ruse made a famous admission at the 1993 symposium of the American Association for the Advancement of Science. "Evolution as a scientific theory makes a commitment to naturalism," he said–that is, it is a philosophy, not just facts. He went on: "Evolution . . . akin to religion, involves making certain a priori or metaphysical assumptions, which at some level cannot be proven empirically." Ruse's colleagues responded with shocked silence and afterward one of them, Arthur Shapiro, wrote a commentary titled, "Did Michael Ruse Give Away the Store?" But, ironically, in the process, Shapiro himself conceded that "there is an irreducible core of ideological assumptions underlying science." He went on: "Darwinism is a philosophical preference, if by that we mean we choose to discuss the material Universe in terms of material processes accessible by material operations."

https://www.namb.net/apologetics-blog/how-darwinism-dumbs-us-down/ In other words, according to naturalists like Ruse and Shapiro, “truth” for the Darwinist is “whatever you believe to be true is true.” Their underlying argument is basically, I believe proposition p therefore p must be true. This is honestly where the slippery slope of epistemological subjectivism takes you. Unfortunately those who embrace such a view are apparently not even intelligent enough to grasp that their world view is self-refuting. They don’t even grasp what self-refuting means. john_a_designer

Darwinism leads to a “new logic to apply to mind and morals and life.” Of course, we all know that scientifically, Darwinism doesn't lead *anywhere*, let alone to a new new logic, morals, or life. These things aren't comprehended through science anyway. Oh well (shoulder shrug). Andrew asauber

Chris Haynes - No, infant mortality rates are about 0.5%, so murder rates must be less than that. Of course, I guess you mean abortions, but abortion rates in the US are also decreasing. Bob O'H

Dear BB With the greatest respect, what you wrote was nonsense. Here it is: "Infant mortality has declined, median age at death has increased, violence has declined, racism and persecution of those different than the norm is no longer tolerated" Infant mortality has declined? Violence has declined? No offense BB, but youre wrong, big time. According to the CDC, here in the USA, 20% of all human beings are killed before their first birthday. All of them innocent all of them defenseless. And worse, our elite have made it legal! And the persecution of those different than the norm is no longer tolerated? Yeah, right! In the USA, we kill over 70% of Down Syndrome people, before they can even breathe. In enlightened Sweden, it's 98%. While in Iceland, Downs Syndrome has been eradicated. Not by "advances in medicine", but by killing those who are "different from the norm." because of Downs Syndrome Please be honest. Do you see now that what you wrote was nonsense? chris haynes

Thank you good sir. I appreciate the correction, like to emphasize that was my point though, we haven’t really changed much at all at least not morally and not because of Darwinian thinking AaronS1978

A78, pardon, but we have had older worldwide wars, the Seven Years War, The War over the American Independence, and the war with the Ottomans come to mind. It's just that the term World War came up in the 1940's (previously they spoke of the Great War for the 1914 War). The difference is, scale of ruin due to industrialisation and that WW2 was a nuke threshold war. One can argue, two more global wars have followed, even overlapping: Cold War to the early 90's and Islam-IST expansion since 1979 or so. KF kairosfocus

BB, Whatever, Darwinism, naturalism, reductive materialism, are, for practical purposes, all the same. As pointed out in the other thread, methodological naturalism is completely insane as a supposed scientific worldview

In no uncertain terms, assuming Methodological Naturalism, particularly assuming reductive materialism, (as Darwinists assume), instead of assuming Christian Theism, as the worldview on which all of science is based leads to the catastrophic epistemological failure of science itself. https://uncommondesc.wpengine.com/philosophy/why-do-some-biologists-hate-theism-more-than-physicists-do/#comment-675531

bornagain77

Seversky:

I suspect that there are a great many researchers who would dispute the claim that Darwin’s original theory was without significance or influence in biology.

According to Mayr there were FIVE. So which ONE are you talking about?

As for the the fundamental role of naturalistic thinking in the science and technology of the last two centuries, can you cite instances where non-naturalistic thinking played a significant role.

Can you cite one where it did?

As for dumbing down, I would argue that by encouraging people to think outside the boundaries imposed by religious dogma and doctrine, a/mat has smartened us up.

LoL! Minds from the mindless via blind, mindless and purposeless processes is perhaps the dumbest thing anyone ever conceived. A/mat is a dogma, fool. Materialism is untestable nonsense. ET

In the past century alone we have seen some of the worst wars our world has ever seen. Our technology made it possible to have actual world wars, of which we have had two. This does not include all the other incredibly violent wars like Vietnam. In the past century we have also seen real super villains come and rise to power. Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, Po Pot. We also have had a rise in terrorism, with people like Osama Bin Laden, And other Islamic terrorists Racism is still huge problem or “black lives matter” doesn’t exist And the incident with the sniper that supported black lives matter didn’t kill any cops. The one black girl didn’t die in the Texas jail cell that caused all the issues in the first place, and no riots happen because of this Our technology has provided some of the best and easiest ways to kill each other Chemical weapons of been used frequently and people, And during World War II we created one of the most powerful weapons in existence harnessing the power of the sun and using it against one another. Most of the medical advances that we have today or build off the backs of people like Edward Jenner, Alex Fleming, Louis Pasteur. All of these men were incredibly religious men and had a very strong moral compass that guided them, their discoveries and how they would help people. It was these advances that have allowed humanity to live much longer which and allowed huge population increases Darwinian evolution had a lot to do with the rebirth of eugenics and was practiced religiously by the Nazis Not exactly what I would consider a huge achievement and I’m not saying that evolution or the concept of evolution has had no good achievements, it has, but that’s a pretty big black mark, and that was in the past century. Think a real delusion is the belief that we are more moral than our past counterparts. I am just shuffled things and we find other ways to be evil one way or another. We just have better and bigger toys now. AaronS1978

I suspect that there are a great many researchers who would dispute the claim that Darwin's original theory was without significance or influence in biology. As for the the fundamental role of naturalistic thinking in the science and technology of the last two centuries, can you cite instances where non-naturalistic thinking played a significant role? As for dumbing down, I would argue that by encouraging people to think outside the boundaries imposed by religious dogma and doctrine, a/mat has smartened us up. We no longer think (well, most of us, anyway) that epileptic seizures are a manifestation of demonic possession, for example, to be cured by driving out the evil spirits. Seversky

Brother Brian:

It seems that the increased naturalism that the OP cautions against have not had the negative impacts inferred .

Most likely due to the fact that doctors, engineers and scientists don't use it. ET

BA77

Other than BB falsely imagining that Darwinism has anything to do with what he listed,...

I didn’t claim or suggest any such thing. I just stated objective facts. It seems that the increased naturalism that the OP cautions against have not had the negative impacts inferred . Brother Brian

^^^^^ Other than BB falsely imagining that Darwinism has anything to do with what he listed, the brute fact of the matter is that Darwinism has been completely fruitless as a scientific endeavor and, in so far as it has influenced society at large, has had horrendous consequences for societies at large. bornagain77

Thus they began applying a naturalistic worldview across the board–in philosophy, psychology, the law, education, and the arts…

Yet technology, agriculture and medicine have all advanced greatly in this time. Infant mortality had declined, median age at death has increased, violence has declined, racism and persecution of those different than the norm is no longer tolerated. Brother Brian