Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Is the dismissal by asserting “fallacy of personal incredulity” itself a fallacy?

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A "trinity" of philosophers

Yesterday, UD’s News announced a free chart of fallacies.

I thought, oh, yay, let’s download.

But, once I began to look at the chart, I noticed that it presented Plato, Socrates and Aristotle in a way that seemed to mock the orthodox Christian triune concept of God. (Did it ever strike the creator of the chart, that Plato is a foundational design thinker? Cf here on.)

Clue no 1.

Clue no 2 was that many fallacies seemed to have odd names. And, “thou shalt not commit logical fallacies” in that context suggests that, as with too many presentations on fallacies I have seen online, this is an agenda in disguise: you object to “our” views because you are dumb and/or dishonest.

Sadly, this also happens in print. Including in books from leading publishers.

In short, my spin-game meter was pegging.

Then, I saw the fallacy of personal incredulity — so-called — on the list, and the problem was suddenly quite clear.

Let me clip my comments on this in the “free chart” thread:

Saying that because one finds something difficult to understand that it’s therefore not true.

a –> EEP: nope, STRAWMAN: the issue is that claims must meet reasonable criteria of warrant, and that if a claim does not, then it has no right to command our assent

Complex subjects like biological evolution through natural selection require some amount of understanding of how they work before one is able to properly grasp them;

b –> Rubbish, the basic premise has long been that chance plus necessity working through variations and selection are sufficient to go from microbes to Mozart

c –> the issue is not that one does not UNDERSTAND — notice the snide insinuation of “your’e too dumb” i.e. a scapegoating caricature and atmosphere-poisoning ad hominem — but that this is not well warranted on empirical and observational grounds, and is in fact based in the end on philosophical a prioris that cut off facts pointing to design before they are allowed to speak.

d –> In particular, the issue is the origin of complex, functionally specific organisation and associated information. The ONLY empirically warranted source of such FSCO/I is intelligence, and we have abundant reason to see analytically that the atomic resources of the observed cosmos do not come anywhere near close enough to warrant the ideas that highly contingent and complex functionally specific entities can arrange themselves out of chance assemblies of components, by chance and blind mechanical necessity.

e –> Since this issue has been on the table for decades now, to duck it and set up a strawman is frankly dishonest. This fallacy so called is itself a fallacy.

this fallacy is usually used in place of that understanding.

f –> pride laced ideologically loaded ad hominem: if you doubt my “science” you must be too dumb to understand it

Kirk drew a picture of a fish and a human and with effusive disdain asked Richard

g –> Obviously Dawkins, i.e this is coming from the circle of the Dawkins sites. That is also reflected in the pattern of thought.

if he really thought we were stupid enough to believe that a fish somehow turned into a human through just, like, random things happening over time.

h –> Strawman, laced with ad hominems and set alight through snide insinuations

i –> Notice, it was led up to by way of a red herring distractor from the real issue, evidence of design based on empirically well supported signs of design.

j –> Do we see an explanation backed up by empirical observations on the origin of — for one instance — digital, algorithmic coded information and implementing machinery in the so-called simple cell? Of course not.

k –> In short, this is a trifecta fallacy exercise that reeks of self-puffery: we are bright, you are too dumb to understand if you dare object

So, sorry, this free chart is worth just what was paid for it.

Zilch.

Thanks, but no thanks, new atheists.

Phil Johnson suggests a wiser strategy:

“The late astronomer and popularizer of science Carl Sagan worried that an epidemic of irrationality is loose in the world . . . What we need to protect ourselves from such false beliefs, Sagan writes in his book The Demon – Haunted World, is a well-equipped ‘baloney detector kit.’  A baloney detector is simply a good grasp of logical reasoning and investigative procedure.  Carl Sagan and I would agree about how to describe the principles of baloney detecting in general.  We would disagree only about where the detectors are to be pointed, and especially about whether we should ever suspect the presence of baloney in claims made by the official scientific establishment.”  [“Tuning Up Your Baloney Detector” in Defeating Darwinism by Opening Minds (Inter-Varsity Press, 1997), pp. 37-38.]

So does the recently late, great Christian spokesman, Chuck Colson:

“Carl Sagan was right: We do need baloney detectors.  But we don’t need to beam them on Christian beliefs, as Sagan urged; instead, let’s use them to get an honest take on the fossil record and to separate science from philosophy.  And we should encourage robust debate between creationists and evolutionists: It keeps both sides from ignoring evidence that does not appear to fit their theories.”  – Chuck Colson, “Is Natural All There Is?”, Breakpoint radio transcript #80209, 1998.

And of course, the HT due to the Creation Safaris site for the two quotes points to a much better survey, one by those much despised Creationists, here.

For a more advanced, systematic survey, I strongly recommend the IEP’s fallacies page, here. 207 fallacies, alphabetically listed, plus a good introduction.

For starters on straight thinking and de-spinning, I suggest my own 101’shere and here. The discussion of selective hyperskepticism here will be helpful, that of how to develop a worldview foundation here and that on origins science here will also help.

New atheists: back to the drawing-board, please. END

Comments
KF, Well, there were no Beavers in existence at the time the first cell came into being either. You want to regard intelligence as something that exists independently of the physical beings which display it. There is no scientific evidence (yet) that this is justified. In our "uniform experience", intelligence is always a property of an organism that has a physical brain, and since there could not have been any such organisms around at the time the first cell came into existence, it is not legitimate to use the rule of uniformitarianism to assign intelligence as a cause that could have been operating at that time. We have no "uniform experience" of intelligence acting absent a physical organism with a physical brain that displays that attribute. Now I happen to believe, as you do, that there are entities which do not possess physical brains but which nonetheless display intelligence. God is one such entity, of course. But this is a metaphysical presupposition, and not at this point in history scientifically validated. Thus, the design inference with respect to the first cell is grounded in metaphysics and requires metaphysical assumptions for its validity.Bruce David
April 26, 2012
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BD: Nope, we see complex, functionally specific organisation caused by for instance beavers. (Cf the earlier discussion on this, here. They may have rather limited intelligence, but intelligence it is.) In addition, where we see digital symbolic codes and algorithms being formed, we have no good reason to hold that HUMAN is a relevant constraint rather than INTELLIGENT. For instance, not all humans can create an application program, or design or build a bridge or a dam, etc. The clear issue is intelligence, not humanity. The best explanation for the FSCO/I we see per empirical evidence is intelligence. In addition, we know on the analysis of search spaces, that 6the other source of high contingency, chance, is not credibly going to find the sort of isolated zones indicated by functional specificity; especially when the threshold is running past 500 or 1,000 bits. GEM of TKIkairosfocus
April 26, 2012
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KF, I would like to pick up on one point in your post, which I have been mulling over for a while, and let me preface by saying that I am firmly in the ID camp, so you know where I stand on the issue. In the OP, you state,
In particular, the issue is the origin of complex, functionally specific organisation and associated information. The ONLY empirically warranted source of such FSCO/I is intelligence...
This point has been most thoroughly elucidated, I believe, by Stephen Meyer in Signature in the Cell where he states, "...we have independent evidence---'uniform experience'---that intelligent agents are capable of producing specified information," and from this concludes, using the historical scientific method as practiced by Darwin and others, that the action of an intelligent agent is the best explanation for the existence of massive amounts of specified information in the cell. I had a long discussion here a few months ago with AIguy on this topic, and he finally convinced me that there is a flaw in this logic as presented by Meyer, and that is that our "uniform experience" is entirely with human intelligent agents. Since there were clearly no human beings around at the time the first cell came into existence, this cause of specified information cannot be invoked as the cause of the specified information present in that cell. In other words, if you are going to invoke a currently operating cause to explain a past event, it must be a cause that there is good reason to believe was in operation at the time the event occurred. Since the only intelligent agents with which we have experience as causes of FSCO/I (to use your acronym) are human beings, and since human beings were not present when the first cell came into existence, it is not legitimate to conclude that an intelligent agent was the cause of that FSCO/I. The only way to get around this problem, as I see it, is to posit that human intelligent agency is a subset of a larger set of intelligent agents, at least one of whom was (or at least could have been) present at that time. However, there is no scientific knowledge that such a larger set of intelligent agents exists. As I said above, I am convinced that living things (and indeed the physical universe as a whole) are designed, but that is because my spiritual and metaphysical beliefs include the existence of such entities. Based on this, I believe that there are three intellectually defensible positions one can adopt, given the evidence of massive amounts of FSCO/I present in the first cell and the infusion of massive amounts of additional FSCO/I in subsequent more complex organisms: 1. My metaphysical beliefs include the existence of a non-human intelligent agent or agents at the time the first cell came into being and subsequently, and thus they constitute the best explanation for the existence of FSCO/I in living things. 2. The existence of FSCO/I in living things is a mystery. (This, by the way, if I understand their views correctly, is the position of both David Berlinski and Cornelius Hunter.) 3. The existence of FSCO/I in living things is evidence that at least one intelligent agent was in existence at the time the first cell came into being, so I will alter my views to include that belief. (This was the stance taken by Antony Flew.) Only the second one, however, adheres strictly to the historical scientific method. It says, basically, that there is currently no purely scientific explanation for the existence of living things.Bruce David
April 26, 2012
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I'm glad you brought this up because I had the exact same feeling looking at this chart. But I couldn't figure out exactly why I felt that way. I thought the "thou shalt not" part was a little weird, and some of the wording was weird, but you kind of clarified what my own spin-game meter was suggesting... Not that the chart is totally useless, in my mind ... just that, I don't see any need for this condescending vibe intruding on something that is supposed to be solely about logic.Leslie
April 26, 2012
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News: Indeed, it very much depends on what is driving the incredulity. You will recall, that I have often spoken about selective hyperskepticism, which captures what is legitimate about where skepticism goes wrong (and, contrary to what is commonly promoted, skepticism is NOT to be properly regarded as an intellectual virtue). Snipping from the synopsis:
The fallacy of selective hyperskepticism occurs when one exerts (perhaps inadvertently) a double-standard on the degree of warrant demanded for accepting testimony, claims or reports on matters of fact; matters which as Havard's Simon Greenleaf (one of the fathers of the modern theory of evidence) observed, can only be shown to be so beyond reasonable doubt, i.e. to moral rather than demonstrative certainty. Also, given Kurt Godel's work in the 1930's even mathematical demonstrations fail of absolute certainty, as -- for sufficiently rich axiomatic mathematical systems -- complete sets of axioms will be inconsistent and there is no constructive procedure to create sets of axioms which are known to be consistent. The fallacy is rooted in the problem that if radical skepticism is universally applied, it ends in self-referential absurdity, through corroding confidence in ALL claims; thus, itself as well. That is, subtly, it contradicts and so refutes itself. However, sometimes, when a claim does not sit well with one's worldview, one is tempted to dismiss it through selectively -- thus inconsistently -- requiring a degree of evidence that, by the very nature of the case, a matter of fact cannot attain; perhaps through the slogan, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." (This problem of a double-standard in assessing evidence, unfortunately, is particularly commonly met with in discussions on the authenticating evidential underpinnings of the Christian Faith, and on matters connected to origins sciences.) Instead of falling into such inconsistencies, it is wiser to first examine the comparative difficulties of the worldview level claims and commitments thus involved, on factual adequacy, coherence and simplicity/ad hocness, leading to a position that can be called "reasonable faith." In so doing, reasonable principles of assessing fact-claims and associated basic beliefs can be applied, on a fair and balanced basis . . .
So, the real issue is that we must be consistent in standards of warrant, recognising as well the limitations of our investigations and knowledge claims. Where evolutionary materialists often go off the rails, is that they impose materialism by the back-door as a Lewontinian a priori, and end up excluding things that would otherwise be easily seen to be well warranted. For instance FSCO/I has but one empirically well warranted source: design. It is abundantly well attested, on billions of test cases all around us, where we do know the source. In addition, it is easy to show just how fast the alternative explanation suggested, chance plus blind necessity, runs out of capacity very fast. 1,000 bits worth of explicit or implied info that is functionally specific is enough (as the linked discussion in the OP highlights). But because of an a priori determination not to see design as a credible explanation in origins contexts, and to impose materialism explicitly or implicitly, it is held that there MUST be a materialist mechanism. And so, when someone comes along and points out the problems, the pretence is that such a person is ignorant, and/or stupid and/or dishonest. or -- and in context, it means pretty much the same thing -- has a religious agenda. (hence the current hidden religious agenda witch-hunt.) So, a fake fallacy has been ginned up as a strawman-scapegoat game. Just as, right now, NCSE is busy trying to re-label the Tennessee law on blocking retaliation against teachers who allow discussion of limitations of science in controversial contexts dear to the hearts of NCSE and similar groups, as a "Monkey law." That is, they are trying to use the distorted, slanderous misunderstanding of the Scopes Trial inculcated by Inherit the Wind etc, to distort the perception of what this law does. (It is all of two pages long, do please actually read it and have enough decency to answer to it, not to a convenient, ad hominem-soaked scapegoat and strawman. [My earlier comment is here.]) Of course, the major media -- to their discredit -- will give them a free pass in this lie. And, sorry, but lie this is. For, NCSE, a responsible body, is here speaking in willful disregard of truth they know or should know, and are hoping to profit from the perception that their talking points or insinuations are true. That, sirs, is willful, calculated deception. It is patent to anyone who objectively examines the relevant law, that the issue is to make the limitations of scientific knowledge claims clear, and to restrict the discussion specifically to scientific matters that are in the curriculum, specifically excluding from the protective umbrella religious remarks. Since courts have ruled -- in some cases on questionable grounds -- that Creation science thought [which would include not just appeal to the Bible on origins but generic thought on what the nature of the world points to as its source] and Design thought are deemed "religious" the issue cannot be that discussion of such topics will be protected. And yes, school districts routinely lose on suits from ACLU etc, as the whole climate has been so jiggered that e.g. Judge Jones imagined that watching Inherit the Wind was an appropriate way to prepare himself to hear the case before him. (Cf here on on that.) Do you want me to say it plainly: WITCH-HUNT? We have something that has gone very wrong with science education, and every attempt to get the materialist indoctrination and politically correct propaganda out of science classrooms is being assaulted by radical ideologues using tactics that are -- given the level of the people involved at the source -- dishonest and irresponsible. That is the take-home lesson from all of this. And in the case of this chart, the pretence that to question the shibboleths of evolutionary materialist ideology imposed on science reflects ignorance and laziness so that one does not understand, is an outrageous slander. Worse, it is embedded in a piece of mockery of the Christian faith, and the Christian scriptures. It should be withdrawn by its author, apologised for and corrected. Not that I am holding my breath. GEM of TKIkairosfocus
April 26, 2012
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Really, doesn't it depend on what's driving the incredulity? Once upon a time, a woman who lived in the Arctic saw a plane for the first time and declared, "I don't believe it; the wings don't flap." Good observation but a lack of knowledge of aeronautics prevented her from realizing that flapping is not an essential prerequisite of flight. In the same way, British sailors refused at first to go to sea in iron hulled ships because they "knew" they would sink. What they didn't know was the principle of buoyancy. On the other hand, if someone expects me to believe that a man who has been married and divorced eight times is a good husband, they are expecting an awful lot. The key element in "personal incredulity" is "personal." What if it is not just me? What if anyone with a roughly similar amount of life experience would be thinking roughly the same thing? In this case, I am not incredulous based on what I don't know - as was the case with the sailors - but on what I DO know. That no one is just unlucky that many times. And if they are expecting me to believe that Darwinism is a source of intricate machinery, they have pushed the limit to the snapping point. Most of the world doesn't believe it and for good reason: it's not likely and it's never been demonstrated.News
April 26, 2012
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