At Mind Matters News: How can the universe have arisen from nothing?

_{Denyse O'Leary

December 12, 2021

Cosmology, Logic and Reason, Physics

2}_{Categories
Cosmology
Logic and Reason
Physics}

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We are asked to examine the problem logically:

Science writer Prudence Louise offers some realism on the topic:

The question of cosmic origins is a perennially popular question, but most theists think the answer has been known for thousands of years. God is the ultimate cause of the cosmos. While there’s room to disagree with that theistic conclusion, there are rational limits on the valid ways to reject it.
None of the outcomes of rejecting God are appealing. They’re the sort of explanatory gaps we reluctantly accept in the wider context of our philosophical commitments.
Prudence Louise, “Universes from Nothing?: Scientific euphemisms and equivocations” at Medium (November 21, 2021) (November 21, 2021)

Louise runs through a number of ideas that sound popular in the lunchroom but don’t stand the test of careful thought. Just for example, “one day science will answer the question of why the universe exists.” But that’s not what science does. Generally speaking, science answers “how” questions, not “why” questions. Science can tell us a lot about how things work. But to ask why things work is a matter for philosophy, not science.

Louise is not a fan of Lawrence Krauss’s 2013 book, A Universe from Nothing:

More here.

Takehome: It turns out that the claim that everything just happened to come from nothing is fraught with problems.

You may also wish to read: Why physicalism is failing as the accepted approach to science. The argument that everything in nature can be reduced to physics was killed by the philosophical Zombie, as Prudence Louise explains. Physicalism which depends on a mechanistic view of the universe, was challenged by observer-dependent quantum mechanics. Then the Zombie started walking…

Comments

EDTA, As to:
While we can certainly ask why the universe was created, if the creator is superior to us intellectually and in other ways, we have to realize that we may not know the answer. We might not even be capable of comprehending the true reason(s). We might be able to understand a watered-down version, but we will have trouble even being certain that we have even partially grasped it. This is the reality of being the inferior beings in the matter. Nothing abnormal or unexpected about this situation from my perspective.
Well, although I certainly agree with the sentiment, (although we are made in the image of God), that God's ways are far higher than our ways,,,
Isaiah 55:9 As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Yet even though God's ways are far higher than our ways, never-the-less, Christianity, besides laying claim to the founding of modern science itself, can also lay claim to providing the correct teleological purpose for the universe in that Christ’s resurrection from the dead, via evidence gleaned from the Shroud of Turin, provides a coherent, and very plausible, solution for the much sought after ‘Theory of Everything”,
Jesus Christ as the correct “Theory of Everything” – video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpn2Vu8–eE
Verse
Colossians 1:15-20 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
Of supplemental note: The problem of pain/suffering, and how we react to tragedy in our lives, was almost central to Dr. Neal's following talk on her near death experience. At around the 15:00 - 17:00 minute mark of the following video, Dr. Neal spoke about how she, when in the presence of God, and from being able to see things from that much higher “omniscient' perspective of God, finally understood why God allows evil and suffering in the world (i.e. she finally ‘got it’) and understood how our limited perspective on 'evil' severely clouds our judgment and reactions to tragedies in our lives. (The take home message from her talk is to trust in God no matter what happens in your life). Of note, she had to deal with the tragedy of losing her eldest son.
Dr. Mary Neal's Near-Death Experience - (Life review portion of her NDE starts around the 13:00 minute mark) - video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63wY2fylJD0
Inspirational quote:, "He (God) is right here with each of us right now, seeing what we see, suffering what we suffer... and hoping desperately that we will keep our hope and faith in Him. Because that hope and faith will be triumphant."
The Easter Question - Eben Alexander, M.D. - Harvard - March 2013 Excerpt: More than ever since my near death experience, I consider myself a Christian -,,, Now, I can tell you that if someone had asked me, in the days before my NDE, what I thought of this (Easter) story, I would have said that it was lovely. But it remained just that -- a story. To say that the physical body of a man who had been brutally tortured and killed could simply get up and return to the world a few days later is to contradict every fact we know about the universe. It wasn't simply an unscientific idea. It was a downright anti-scientific one. But it is an idea that I now believe. Not in a lip-service way. Not in a dress-up-it's-Easter kind of way. I believe it with all my heart, and all my soul.,, We are, really and truly, made in God's image. But most of the time we are sadly unaware of this fact. We are unconscious both of our intimate kinship with God, and of His constant presence with us. On the level of our everyday consciousness, this is a world of separation -- one where people and objects move about, occasionally interacting with each other, but where essentially we are always alone. But this cold dead world of separate objects is an illusion. It's not the world we actually live in.,,, ,,,He (God) is right here with each of us right now, seeing what we see, suffering what we suffer... and hoping desperately that we will keep our hope and faith in Him. Because that hope and faith will be triumphant. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eben-alexander-md/the-easter-question_b_2979741.html
bornagain77_{December 13, 2021
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JVL, While we can certainly ask why the universe was created, if the creator is superior to us intellectually and in other ways, we have to realize that we may not know the answer. We might not even be capable of comprehending the true reason(s). We might be able to understand a watered-down version, but we will have trouble even being certain that we have even partially grasped it. This is the reality of being the inferior beings in the matter. Nothing abnormal or unexpected about this situation from my perspective.EDTA_{December 13, 2021
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JVL:
Why should there be a physical world at all? What is the point?
You would have to ask the designer. The evidence says this is a universe designed for scientific discovery. Perhaps an ethereal being wanted to know if physical beings could attain enlightenment. But thank you for once again showing there are open research questions that ID forces us to askET_{December 13, 2021
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Zweston: JVL, your critique is “that’s not how I would do it” or “that doesn’t make sense to me” Not at all. I'm just asking why would some creative being create a limited reality that they existed outside of and were not subject to the laws they imposed on that reality. —and just like that we are back to debating theology, completely dodging that the universe had a beginning, and it needed a cause, and materialists don’t want to engage with it. And what was the cause then? Why start the whole thing in the first place? It’s amazing that the “stick with the science” crowd is usually the one that quickly digresses into their grievances with the almighty. I'm just asking: what was the point of coming up with a scenario that the creating agency didn't exist in exactly and wasn't subject to the limitations of the scenario? If it went down like you say then the creator must have had a purpose. You think there was a purpose. What was that purpose?JVL_{December 13, 2021
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ET: 1- The PHYSICAL WORLD requires those laws. Without laws there couldn’t be a physical world Why should there be a physical world at all? What is the point? 2- The point would be to intelligently design a DYNAMIC PHYSICAL place that is self-sustaining. Those laws are what allows the universe to be both dynamic and self-sustaining. Again, why? What is the point? Is it some kind of contest then? Look, I still don't see the point of creating a limited physical reality for a being that is not subject to the limiting laws they create. It reminds me of a model train person who sets up a limited but careful mechanistic scene. But hey, if I've got that wrong then please, by all means, set me straight.JVL_{December 13, 2021
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When we put God on trial, all kinds of nonsense comes out. JVL, your critique is "that's not how I would do it" or "that doesn't make sense to me" -SO? ---and just like that we are back to debating theology, completely dodging that the universe had a beginning, and it needed a cause, and materialists don't want to engage with it. It's amazing that the "stick with the science" crowd is usually the one that quickly digresses into their grievances with the almighty.zweston_{December 13, 2021
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You “argue” like an infant.
Wrong. Like a spoiled infant.Lieutenant Commander Data_{December 13, 2021
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JVL:
Why would such a being create limiting laws that it is not subject to? What would be the point? Just to create a kind of ‘doll house’ to play with?
You "argue" like an infant. 1- The PHYSICAL WORLD requires those laws. Without laws there couldn't be a physical world 2- The point would be to intelligently design a DYNAMIC PHYSICAL place that is self-sustaining. Those laws are what allows the universe to be both dynamic and self-sustaining.ET_{December 13, 2021
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seversky:
If there has always been something doesn’t that mean there is no need for a creator?
It is what has happened and is happening to that "something" that makes the case for an intelligent designer.ET_{December 13, 2021
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This reminds me of a related conundrum which arises in a thought experiment. This is with time travel: say a time machine is invented allowing travel into the past. The inventor wants to change the past presumably for the better by introducing Edison's light bulb invention much earlier in history. Plus introducing Korngold's best movie orchestral score for music lovers, say The Sea Hawk. So he attempts to do so. If he is successful he has changed the world such that it contains an invention that required Edison to spend years of painstaking experiment to originate, and a musical score that required a great movie composer years to learn enough and creatively originate the music, with these creations existing without an inventor and without a composer. Since that is impossible, such a time machine must be impossible. By the same token, a Universe packed with built-in very highly ordered designed information, without a creator is impossible.doubter_{December 13, 2021
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Zweston: I’m pretty sure a creating agent of the universe can do whatever they want, whenever they want, no? At least in principle? Why would such a being create limiting laws that it is not subject to? What would be the point? Just to create a kind of 'doll house' to play with?JVL_{December 13, 2021
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If there has always been something doesn’t that mean there is no need for a creator?
Greatest mystery of all, why does anything exist? Aside: an infinite universe produces an infinite number of possibilities including an infinite number of entities with infinite intelligence. So while the infinite universe precludes the need for a creator it absolutely implies an infinite number of god like creatures. If you disagree, then explain why this is not possible.jerry_{December 13, 2021
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Do we realize that our brain can't even conceive nothingness? Nothingness is not (as we imagine)an empty space is the absence of the empty space "filled" by non-space :))Lieutenant Commander Data_{December 13, 2021
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If there has always been something doesn't that mean there is no need for a creator?Seversky_{December 13, 2021
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Pater, materialism is a mechanistic position. That means it would need a mechanism to explain the starting something.ET_{December 13, 2021
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Why do we assume that "nothing" is the default condition, and that it's "something" that requires explaining? Maybe it's just the opposite.Pater Kimbridge_{December 13, 2021
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@JVL... Well, since laws of physics can't just create themselves... and cannot cause matter, time, and space to appear.... I'm pretty sure a creating agent of the universe can do whatever they want, whenever they want, no? At least in principle?zweston_{December 13, 2021
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BobRyan: You cannot get the universe without violating every law of physics, unless it was designed by God. Who can violate every law of physics!JVL_{December 13, 2021
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Or, as the say in Yorkshire "You can't get owt from nowt!"Seversky_{December 13, 2021
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The universe is a closed system. Nothing only creates nothing. You cannot get the universe without violating every law of physics, unless it was designed by God.BobRyan_{December 12, 2021
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awaiting a quick non-related comment from our skeptical friends that dodges this question... or just overall topical silence.zweston_{December 12, 2021
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