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Biological argument for God from design more compelling than cosmological one?

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Ratio Christi, a Christian campus ministry, features Jonathan McLatchie, one of our News writers, in their blog, The Poached Egg , explaining why he thinks so:

The more I come to terms with the sheer engineering prowess of the cell, the more I am becoming convinced that the argument from biological design is perhaps the single most powerful argument for God’s existence — I now consider it to be stronger than even the cosmological and teleological arguments. It seems to be a rather under-used apologetic, however, particularly in Christian-atheist debates. ID as a scientific proposition, of course, doesn’t necessitate God as designer. But it is certainly a very compelling part of a cumulative body of evidence for theism. Catching just a glimpse of the beauty and sophistication of the cell should be enough to render absolutely anyone without excuse.

“Without excuse” indeed. That was a part of the apostle Paul’s point 2000 years ago, when he was explaining to the Romans why he was a Christian:

For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse .

The thing about arguments from design, whether biologial or cosmological, is that, because the design is evident, most counterarguments are irrational.

Consider:

“So what if this universe works? There is surely an infinite number of universes out there that have failed.” In other words, we are invited to exchange what we know for what someone imagines might be so. And it gets better:

“Life only looks designed. Random Darwinan processes can accomplish this feat.” To say that the evidence for such processes doing so is slight is to shower them with praise. Everywhere, randomness signals disorder at a level that precludes life.

“Life only looks designed. Your brain evolved in such a way as to see a design that isn’t there.” Well, maybe it’s more like this: The Darwinian’s brain somehow evolved so as to see no design where it obviously exists. Offhand, the latter is far more likely.

Most of the time, when we see a design, or a pattern, it is there.

Hat tip Phillip Cunningham

Comments
'There are subtle but real connections between the decay of language and the decay of politics, ethics, religion, etc. ' Timaeus, I was going to say, 'Got it in one!', but I feared that you, as a pack leader, Shir Khan, as it were (well, his was a pride, wasn't it?) would think it vulgar... Pulling your leg again. 'Got it in one', somehow doesn't really convey the sense of how seminally the ethos of a country's culture expresses itself in a host of not immediately obvious ways, does it? Nevertheless, my admiration for the genius of Americans for metaphor qua slang and in demotic speech, generally, in appropriate context, is boundless. Although I do believe it is a particular gift of the peoples of English-speaking countries. Chesterton rightly, I believe, identified slang as largely metaphor. It does seem likely, it seems to me, or I may have read it somewhere, that eventually demotic turns of phrase and language eventually enrich a language. Certainly, as I say, such metaphors can be sublime. I suspect within this continuum, the efforts of the Academie Francaise to deny the French the use of foreign words, while always unsuccessful, are partly deservedly so, and partly undeservedly so. Could Shakespeare have improved upon, 'Why, she beat him like a red-headed stepchild!' Or, the somewhat bawdy 'She had legs that just wouldn't quit!' So many dimensions evocatively addressed in those few words. Basically, though, I'm saying, I see re modern dictionaries. Heck, modern encyclopaedias have entries about the Beatles. Although, I suppose there is no reason why there should not be encyclopaedias for popular interests, as opposed to what, at least used to be, tomes on academic subjects. Nevertheless, basically, if only for the reason you state, viz that is symptomatic of a general cultural atrophy, I'm with you regarding the maintenance of the formal standards of yesteryear.Axel
September 6, 2013
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Well Gregory, seeing that natural processes cannot give rise to nature, then by your "logic" there cannot be any "natural" sciences.Joe
September 6, 2013
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Little grammatical errors, like forgetting that 'Intelligent Design' is a 'theory'? That's typical for timaeus. He writes 'ID' but means IDT. It is an effort at tricking people called reification. "claiming that ID[T] requires supernatural intervention" Dembski speaks openly of a 'transcendent Designer' in his work. If a regurgitator like timaeus wants to quibble about how 'transcendent designer' relates to 'supernatural intervention,' so be it. Either way, it is quite obvious that IDT is not and cannot be a'strictly [natural] scientific' theory. timaeus has still not the nerve to admit that IDM leaders consider IDT a 'scientific revolution.' He's apparently still in denial about that and a lot of other things too. This, folks, is what Expelled Syndrome does to people.Gregory
September 6, 2013
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Alan Fox:
What should matter most is that communication is clear and unambiguous.
That leaves you out, Alan. It pretty much leaves out all evos. Nice jobJoe
September 6, 2013
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This is part of a wider modern problem. Most modern English is horrible. And I’m not talking just about the English of people who have never had much education or didn’t grow up in literate homes. I’m talking about the English of college graduates. Many journalists write slovenly, vulgar English. Many professors now write clumsy, inelegant, and even ungrammatical English. Many schoolteachers speak and write dreadful English in front of their classes. Even some TV announcers on major networks, who used to be relied upon as models of good English, are now among the main sources of bad English in the general culture.
Hmm. What should matter most is that communication is clear and unambiguous. Is it good or bad that rules follow usage rather than fossilise it. English has become the second language of choice because of its flexibility and simplicity. If only we could get phonetic spelling. Perhaps you don't realise the envy that resides in the French psyche over the success of English as a universal medium of communication. They brought it on themselves to a degree by their (I mean governments of the day and their delegates and advisors) autocratic attempts at control, such as the purge of synonyms after the Revolution and the dead hand of the Académie Française. I am sure elderly Greeks sat together bemoaning the decline of the language of Homer :)Alan Fox
September 6, 2013
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Axel (18): On a website where people many people still doubt an ancient earth, reject evolution, and call for a return to the Protestant Christianity and American morality of 100 years ago, you are telling me I shouldn't be "behind the times"? :-) So if Merriam-Webster capitulates to bad usage because it has become so common, you are willing to go along with that? You are willing to be a follower of the pack, rather than a leader? I've paid close attention to the little language lessons featured on the M-W website. M-W. willfully aids and abets the erosion of good English. It is one thing to *record* current misuses, as a matter of reference, so people will know how to untangle all the bad writing that is around these days. That's useful. It is another thing to *encourage* and *justify* such misuses -- which is what Merriam-Webster does in its little video sermonettes on the virtue of surrendering to the usage of the ignorant. I remember when the Webster dictionary used to, after giving the proper usage of a word, add a separate section flagging common misuses, exhorting people not to commit them! No dictionary on the market today would dream of doing that now. Then dictionaries tried to *improve* one's language. Now they make one's language worse, by "democratically" treating good usage and bad usage as equally valid, simply by virtue of the fact that they both exist. This is part of a wider modern problem. Most modern English is horrible. And I'm not talking just about the English of people who have never had much education or didn't grow up in literate homes. I'm talking about the English of college graduates. Many journalists write slovenly, vulgar English. Many professors now write clumsy, inelegant, and even ungrammatical English. Many schoolteachers speak and write dreadful English in front of their classes. Even some TV announcers on major networks, who used to be relied upon as models of good English, are now among the main sources of bad English in the general culture. I remarked on Gregory's misuse (jarring to my trained ear) for this reason: He has made numerous comments on this site about the allegedly bad English of others. He has accused people constantly of misusing words, even as his own usage of words (I pointed out one just the other day) is often confusing or downright incorrect; and he has sometimes accused people specifically of bad grammar. But above he makes a grammatical error for which, in my day, his seventh-grade teacher would have made him stay after school and rewrite the sentence correctly ten times! Heidegger said the language was "the house of being." If that's the case, modern English-speakers live in a hovel. And this is not merely an aesthetic concern (though ugliness to the trained ear is itself reason enough to condemn bad language, as it is reason enough to condemn bad singing or bad playing of a musical instrument). There are subtle but real connections between the decay of language and the decay of politics, ethics, religion, etc. I marvel that American "conservatives" go on endlessly about getting back to the old religion and the old morality, but don't seem the slighest bit concerned about a return to correct grammar and usage, and to good literary style. It seems that these days, all Americans are linguistic liberals. Yet style and culture and morality are intimately connected, as the British Christian writer and English professor Ian Robinson has powerfully argued in his many writings. And of course C. S. Lewis was aware of this connection as well. Coffee break over. Back to ID. :-)Timaeus
September 6, 2013
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Gregory:
Likewise, I provided a link to the international society for science and religion’s views on IDism. Does that not count as evidence to you, Barry?
LoL! Their ignorant spewage is not evidence Gregory. Are you really that delusional?Joe
September 6, 2013
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We exist and there is only ONE reality behind taht existence. Unguided processes have been ruled out as not being science- thanks Lizzie, that's your only contribution to this debate. And seeing that the design inference can be tested and possibly falsified it is clear that it is science- well unless you redefine science...Joe
September 6, 2013
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Gregory doesn't know jack about science and he has mental issues wrt Intelligent Design- Alan Fox:
I hope some of the readers her will follow Gregory’s link and maybe respond on whether they think it is a fair summary.
I read it and obviously they don't know jack about Intelligent Design nor science. So both Gregory and that org can kiss my ass because they don't know anything else but ass kissing.Joe
September 6, 2013
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Gregory wrote: "And indeed, this is a grave problem dealing with IDists; they all have their own ‘IDT’. So one is stuck discussing and arguing with individuals’ personal versions of IDT and not a clear, singular theory." If Gregory objects to ID on those grounds, he must also object to TE and to "the theory of evolution" (in biology) on those grounds. After all, if you look at TE, Russell doesn't agree with Polkinghorne, and Russell doesn't agree with Lamoureux, and Collins doesn't agree with Conway Morris, and Murphy doesn't agree with Falk, etc. And if you look at "the theory of evolution," you see that Shapiro doesn't agree with Lewontin, who doesn't agree with Newman, who doesn't agree with Venema; and Dawkins doesn't agree with Gould, and Denton doesn't agree with Dawkins, and Conway Morris doesn't agree with Collins. It goes on and on. If Gregory is frustrated that there are so many different ID views, and if he is arguing that ID people should all agree on on one position, then he should make the some complaint and demand in the other cases I've mentioned. For that matter, he should demand that crunchy con and libertarian and religious right Republicans, who have major differences between them, should all agree on one "Republican" set of beliefs; and he should demand that all "liberals," some of whom support affirmative action programs (in the name of social justice for groups) and others of whom oppose such programs (in the name of equal treatment for individuals rather than groups), get together and agree on one "liberal" position. And he should argue that Miles Davis, Count Basie, Glenn Miller, and a New Orleans street band should get together and agree to play all their jazz in the same style from now on, so there won't be any confusion as to what "jazz" is. And he should urge that Catholics and Orthodox and Protestants should all agree on a common "Christian" position so that it won't be as difficult for non-Christians to argue with Christians. I don't see it as a weakness of ID that it has differing emphases and includes a spectrum of views. It means that people criticizing ID have to criticize individual writers rather some "ism" that they have constructed in their minds, but so what? That's a good thing. The world needs more intellectual individualism and less intellectual collectivism. It would be far more intellectually useful for critics of ID to argue "Behe is more correct here than Dembski" or "Meyer is more correct here than Nelson" than to argue against a monstrous amalgam of Meyer, Nelson, Behe, Johnson, Wells, etc. which they call "ID" but which represents no ID proponent in particular, and then to render a blanket verdict on this non-existent position. To be sure, there are a few common points that link up various ID proponents. I've explained these common points to Gregory and others a hundred times. And I would defend most of the major ID proponents on those points -- the critique of neo-Darwinian theory, and the general validity of arguing for design. But I have no responsibility to defend particular exaggerated statements by any particular design proponent. I have every right to be an ID proponent of my own peculiar variety, just as Gregory has the right to come off McLuhan in his own peculiar way, and feels no need to defend "McLuhanism" in general or to agree with all other McLuhanites on everything. Gregory's desire for some kind of firm group position, some kind of "ism," is a desire that cannot be satisfied. I actually prefer the open anarchy of ID to the fake unity of "TE" and of "evolutionary biology." There's more truth in advertising when you openly admit you are a "big tent" than when you really are a big tent, but try to conceal that fact, for culture-war reasons.Timaeus
September 6, 2013
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Alan, don't hold your breath. IDists are not very happy that most of the world's scientific organisations are against them. They are even less happy that the top science & religion organisations are against them too. And what is saddest is that either IDists don't understand why this is or worse, don't care why this is. Here's an example of Expelled Sydrome at its most damaging and hurtful to individuals who wrap their worldviews up tightly with IDist scientism. I've provided a reason above, conveyed through a fascinating, humble and decorated scientist, who is also a devoted Abrahamic believer, why this is the case.
"many theologians are ashamed to use the term ‘Design’ because they want no association with the American political IDM. They continue to believe in a Creator, of course, they just use other terms."
The term 'design' is now (at least for the forseeable future) stained in history by the IDM's scientism! :(
"these Brits started out with their conclusion"
Actually, its quite an international organisation with some of the topic religious scientists in the world. timaeus could only ever dream of belonging to such a group. One must be invited by a panel of peers to join based on accomplishments in scientific and reigious fields. As I said, timeaus' disenchantment would be better directed to a positive profession. I do think he should put his talens to good purpose by openly joining a science and religion program at a university. These programs are popular and are becoming more widespread. He is a religious studies scholar, after all.
"1. I’d like to know the name of the 'world class cosmologist'." - timaeus
And I'd like to know your real name, timaeus, publically stated here at UD. Of course, neither am I under any obligation to tell you. Believe what you want about whether or not I am telling the truth.
2. "about biological systems"
Is that what OoL is about, 'biological systems'? And isn't IDism interested in OoL? You are being irrationally antagonistic, timaeus. It is not a healthy thing. 3. Well, I did take a Logic 101 course, which is about the highest level timaeus reaches sometimes. Caved in and isolated by Expelled Syndrome, I doubt timaeus has met anyone credible as a scholar in recent years. 4. A convenient diversion. IDT is claimed as a 'scientific revolution' by IDM leaders. Just follow the evidence. Nothing timaeus says will change this. That's the reality. timaeus seems just as willing to intentionally conflate '(the) design argument(s)' in theology with scientistic IDT as most other IDists. Well, I guess that makes sense since he is just repeating their views, having himself - by his own admission - offered not a single original thought in this conversation.
"The intellect is individual; group statements are always at least *in part* political."
So, the Wedge Document by the ID was "at least *in part* political." Good that we finally get to hear timaeus publcially admitting that there *is* something political about IDists involved with their IDT. He'll of course deny it, but the implication of his statement is clear. Don't forget, ladies and gentlemen, that timaeus is not *himself* part of any such Movement - he will deny it to anyone here who openly asks him. Instead, he just claims to be a neutral, disinterested observer, who happens to be trade in abstract ideas, with no connection to reality, which is why he expressed total confusion and rejection that 'designing processes' actually *can* be studied. That they aren't allowed to be studied according to the scientistic ideology of IDism doesn't change this reality. "important ID works" is just a timaean fantasy, investing his heroes' evanglically-based, DI-marketed 'books' with undeserved 'scientific' acclaim! Let's get back to Dembski's distinction (in an IDist book timaeus purposely won't read) because it best responds to the claims made in the OP.Gregory
September 6, 2013
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Reminds me of this 'experiment' Axel: Stop and Hear the Music - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnOPu0_YWhw An apt verse? Psalm 46:10 He says, “Be still, and know that I am God;bornagain77
September 6, 2013
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Axel, good morning: A Reflection - A Ministry Of Beauty - video https://vimeo.com/47265755bornagain77
September 6, 2013
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Your point 5, Timaeus: “like many others already have” should be “*as* many others already have”. “Like” is properly an adjective, not a conjunction. It seems you have a bone to pick with Merriam Webster. It hinges on 'properly', doesn't it. You may be behind the times on this one.Axel
September 6, 2013
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'I don’t have time to reply to those who aren’t familiar with this appropriate distinction.' Like Gregory, Alan, you won't be 'forced' to answer questions, whether you can or not, irrespective of your available time and criteria for responding. You just change the subject, or skip bithely on, anyway. That's the thing. You guys cannot be nailed down. You're not moral relativists, but logic relativists.Axel
September 6, 2013
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Re Gregory's comments in #1 above: 1. I'd like to know the name of the "world class cosmologist." 2. I'd like to know why even a "world class cosmologist" should be expected to know anything about biological systems or about theology, and therefore why this cosmologist's opinion on intelligent design should matter to anyone. 3. Of course, the citing of the opinion of a "world class cosmologist" is an attempt to argue from authority. (The implied argument is: if he's "world class" he must know what he's talking about, so we should defer to him.) Logic 101 would have taught Gregory the invalidity of this type of argument. 4. There is no necessary logical contradiction between saying: "the arguments for ID are purely scientific, not religious" and "the conclusion of ID can be used in religious apologetics." A conclusion might involve no religious premises, but still have religious implications. 5. "like many others already have" should be "*as* many others already have". "Like" is properly an adjective, not a conjunction.Timaeus
September 6, 2013
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Alan Fox: Taking your suggestion (13), I followed up Gregory's link, and can answer your question. No, it's not a fair summary. The statement makes elementary errors in describing ID -- e.g., claiming that ID requires supernatural intervention, and grouping authors into ID and evolutionist, as if they are separate categories, when Michael Behe belongs to both. Also, the date on the site says 2011, yet the ID sources cited are all from 2007 or earlier (usually much earlier). No mention is made of a number of important ID works, including Behe's second book, Meyer's first book, Meyer's two key articles, Denton's second book, etc. On the other hand, the reference list is top-heavy with TE works (and their theological slant influences the conclusion of the article) and in general with anti-ID works. One gets the impression that these Brits started out with their conclusion and did a partial and superficial reading of ID works in order to feign an objective article. In any case, this is a "group position" statement, and therefore, like all such statements, of no strictly intellectual value. The intellect is individual; group statements are always at least *in part* political. This is an organizational manifesto, not a serious intellectual critique of ID. But of course Gregory will cite anything critical of ID, so it's not surprising he links to it.Timaeus
September 6, 2013
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Oops: Here not Her. (Her is not a Freudian slip hinting at the misogynistic tendencies of some commenters here, although it could be!)Alan Fox
September 6, 2013
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I hope some of the readers her will follow Gregory's link and maybe respond on whether they think it is a fair summary. It's sometimes refreshing though challenging to try and appreciate how we are viewed from another's perspective.Alan Fox
September 6, 2013
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"The nature of that intelligence is unanswerable by scientific inquiry." P. Johnson's meaning of 'Intelligent Design,' in line with his anti-naturalism, is that the supposed Intelligence must be non-natural, extra-natural or supernatural. Take your choice, but speaking merely about "'the nature of' that intelligence/Intelligence" is disingenuous. "who and what the designer or designers are." Why assume the lowercase signifier? Why not Designer or Designers? I prefer to be very careful with language, rather than sloppy or obscure. You are biasing the conversation, (uppercase) David, with a sleight-of-hand, as if natural science *SHOULD* have theological implications designer -> Designer/Creator. "There is a clear demarcation between the science and the theology." On the topic of 'evolution' and 'creation,' is there? "there is nothing strange in the fact that science [philosophy] can provide stuff which can be used for a philosophical [scientific] discussion." Yes, of course, and vice versa as inserted above. "IMO, it’s very simple." - gpuccio If it were as simple as you say it is, then theologians who believe the IDM has laid a trap for Abrahamic believers with their 'scientistic' Design are probably foolish. The cosmologist/theologian that I spoke with yesterday is clearly no fool. IDT = "the biological argument for God" Yeah, that's fairly accurate. It's theological, of course, not 'only philosophical' or 'scientific.' Shifting the burden onto (natural) philososphy away from (natural) theology has been a typical IDist move. It's the insistence that IDT is 'strictly [natural] science,' however, that is most problematic and why IDT has been severely stunted in its claims, if not also what makes it destined for a relatively quick collapse. But don't worry, fellow Abrahamic believers, '(the) design argument(s)' in theological cosmology will still live on in the apologetics world. One needn't accept IDT simply because one accepts (the) design argument(s). That should already be clear for those who have read Dembski's book, as highlighted above. I don't have time to reply to those who aren't familiar with this appropriate distinction.Gregory
September 6, 2013
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"You back none of them with evidence or argument."- Barry I cited Dembski. I believe the Chapter in which *HE* makes the distinction between '(the) design argument(s)' in theology and 'strictly [natural] scientific' IDT starts on pg. 64. Does that count as 'evidence' in your view? Notice that nobody here responded to this by directly dealing with Dembski's distinction? I guess I'm the only one interested in this evidence. And indeed, this is a grave problem dealing with IDists; they all have their own 'IDT'. So one is stuck discussing and arguing with individuals' personal versions of IDT and not a clear, singular theory. Likewise, I provided a link to the international society for science and religion's views on IDism. Does that not count as evidence to you, Barry?Gregory
September 6, 2013
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Gregory: I don't understand your problems. IMO, it's very simple. a) Cosmology is a science, whatever its status it is at present. b) The cosmological argument for God is a philosophical argument, a very old one. One can like it or not. Personally, I find it very convincing, certainly much more convincing than the ontological argument. c) Modern cosmology can certainly provide new aspects which are useful for a debate about the cosmological argument, in particular for the argument about fine tuning of the universe. One can like that or not, but there is nothing strange in the fact that science can provide stuff which can be used for a philosophical discussion. It happens all the time. d) ID theory is a scientific theory about the origin of biological information. One can like it or not, but that is a very simple fact. e) The argument for God based on the existence of living beings, and of information in them, is an old philosophical argument. It can be considered a particular aspect of the cosmological argument, but it differs from it for important issues: e1: the origin of life happens inside the known universe, at specific times and places. e2: therefore, the argument is in some way more connected to scientific knowledge about natural history. The general cosmological argument, instead, is mainly connected to cosmology and theories about the origin of the whole universe, and is more dependent on basic philosophical assumptions. f) ID theory can certainly provide new aspects which are useful for a debate about the biological argument for God, in particular for the origin of biological information. One can like that or not, but there is nothing strange in the fact that science can provide stuff which can be used for a philosophical discussion. It happens all the time. Just as simple as that. No need at all to get "blue in the face".gpuccio
September 6, 2013
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The argument from design is a Scriptural argument. God 's creative power, wisdom, and design are evident in creation for a reason - He intended it to be so and appealed to that design as evidence for His existence.
For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse .
Evidence for design has certainly increased as we have learned more about microbiology and even the abilities of living organisms all over the world. The explosion of Biomimetics supports this, but we don't need to be able to understand the microbiology of the cell to see God's design in the world. It is obvious and undeniable. Microbiology, Biomimicry, etc. are simply icing on the cake. IDM, because it is trying to be a scientific approach to the problem, is not able to make any statement about who the Intelligence is that was involved in the creation of the universe. I understand that approach, but it does handicap what they can do and say. Creationists though need not concern themselves with that. We can be clear and stand firmly on what the Bible says. The evidence we see all around us strongly supports this verse in Romans 1. Evidence for "bad design" is chalked up to devolution over time as things go from organized to disorganized, working to broken, etc. Things break so much easier than improve themselves. Plus, the effect of the fall of man due to sin was a curse on all creation, including nature itself. This too explains some of the problems we see in the world today. It won't qualify as a scientific theory because God has been effectively excluded from science, but that doesn't mean it can't be true. If evolutionists eliminates the right answer from the debate for philosophical reasons, that is their choice. As so many IDers have pointed out, "bad design" ( which is a bit subjective anyway) is still evidence for a designer. This recent quote is quite telling of where we stand today in evolutionary biology:
Darwin referred to the origin of species as “that mystery of mysteries,” and even today, more than 150 years later, evolutionary biologists cannot fully explain how new animals and plants arise.
Maybe they can take refuge in that phrase, “cannot fully explain” the answer. Maybe they can partly or mostly explain it. The article does not allow that reprieve. It’s even worse than not knowing: things they thought they knew are not true:
For decades, nearly all research in the field has been based on the assumption that the main cause of the emergence of new species, a process called speciation, is the formation of barriers to reproduction between populations….
- See more at: http://crev.info/2013/09/darwin-fumbles/#sthash.OYzZY5WI.dpuf
The fact that "evolutionary biologists still cannot fully explain how new animals and plants arise" begs the question of whether what they think they already know is really true or not.tjguy
September 5, 2013
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Gregory, re. 1: According to Meyer, Dembski, and others, the scientific argument for ID is that there are phenomena in the natural world for which the only reasonable explanation is that they are the product of a designing intelligence. The nature of that intelligence is unanswerable by scientific inquiry. From there, metaphysical and theological considerations can argue for various possibilities regarding who and what the designer or designers are. There is a clear demarcation between the science and the theology. What don't you understand about this?Bruce David
September 5, 2013
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And this beyond space and time quantum entanglement, which is confirmed to 70 standard deviations, is now found in life on a massive scale, in every DNA and protein molecule,,
Quantum Information/Entanglement In DNA - Elisabeth Rieper - short video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/5936605/ Coherent Intrachain energy migration at room temperature - Elisabetta Collini and Gregory Scholes - University of Toronto - Science, 323, (2009), pp. 369-73 Excerpt: The authors conducted an experiment to observe quantum coherence dynamics in relation to energy transfer. The experiment, conducted at room temperature, examined chain conformations, such as those found in the proteins of living cells. Neighbouring molecules along the backbone of a protein chain were seen to have coherent energy transfer. Where this happens quantum decoherence (the underlying tendency to loss of coherence due to interaction with the environment) is able to be resisted, and the evolution of the system remains entangled as a single quantum state. http://www.scimednet.org/quantum-coherence-living-cells-and-protein/
Thus not only do we have evidence for staggering levels of integrated complexity in life, but we also have a beyond space and time 'fingerprint' of God within life with quantum entanglement. As well, it can be argued that it was harder for God to create human life than the universe because of the necessity that propitiation placed on creating a being that could dwell in perfection with God though not being perfect, not being God, himself. i.e. The suffering of The Cross!
G.O.S.P.E.L. – (the grace of propitiation) poetry slam – video https://vimeo.com/20960385 Falling Plates (the grace of propitiation) - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGlx11BxF24
Verse and Music:
Ephesians 1:4 Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes. TobyMac - Speak Life (Lyrics) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rK6O0YtBRY
bornagain77
September 5, 2013
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To put some meat on the bones as to Jonathan M.'s claim that biology demonstrates an even more powerful argument for God than the argument for a beginning of the universe, or the argument of the fine-tuning of the universe, does, let's consider that this following fact,,
How the Recent Discoveries Support a Designed Universe - Dr. Walter L. Bradley - paper Excerpt: Only in the 20th century have we come to fully understand that the incredibly diverse phenomena that we observe in nature are the outworking of a very small number of physical laws, each of which may be described by a simple mathematical relationship. Indeed, so simple in mathematical form and small in number are these physical laws that they can all be written on one side of one sheet of paper, as seen in Table 1. http://www.leaderu.com/real/ri9403/evidence.html The Underlying Mathematical Foundation Of The Universe - Walter Bradley - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4491491 Quote from preceding video: “Occasionally I’ll have a bright engineering student who says, “Well you should see the equations we work with in my engineering class. They’re a big mess.”, The problem is not the fundamental laws of nature, the problem is the boundary conditions. If you choose complicated boundary conditions then the solutions to these equations will in fact, in some cases, be quite complicated in form,,, But again the point is still the same, the universe assumes a remarkably simple and elegant mathematical form.” – Dr. Walter Bradley
Yet life certainly does not assume a remarkably simple and elegant mathematical form that can be written on one side of one sheet of paper. In fact there is little hope of us ever fully describing the complex multi-layered integrated complexity found in life. Here is an excellent article, from ENV, that shows it is impossible, due to the extreme polyfuctionality being dealt with, for us to ever completely understand the complexity within living organisms:
"Complexity Brake" Defies Evolution - August 2012 Excerpt: "This is bad news. Consider a neuronal synapse -- the presynaptic terminal has an estimated 1000 distinct proteins. Fully analyzing their possible interactions would take about 2000 years. Or consider the task of fully characterizing the visual cortex of the mouse -- about 2 million neurons. Under the extreme assumption that the neurons in these systems can all interact with each other, analyzing the various combinations will take about 10 million years..., even though it is assumed that the underlying technology speeds up by an order of magnitude each year.",,, Even with shortcuts like averaging, "any possible technological advance is overwhelmed by the relentless growth of interactions among all components of the system," Koch said. "It is not feasible to understand evolved organisms by exhaustively cataloging all interactions in a comprehensive, bottom-up manner." He described the concept of the Complexity Brake:,,, "Allen and Greaves recently introduced the metaphor of a "complexity brake" for the observation that fields as diverse as neuroscience and cancer biology have proven resistant to facile predictions about imminent practical applications. Improved technologies for observing and probing biological systems has only led to discoveries of further levels of complexity that need to be dealt with. This process has not yet run its course. We are far away from understanding cell biology, genomes, or brains, and turning this understanding into practical knowledge.",,, Why can't we use the same principles that describe technological systems? Koch explained that in an airplane or computer, the parts are "purposefully built in such a manner to limit the interactions among the parts to a small number." The limited interactome of human-designed systems avoids the complexity brake. "None of this is true for nervous systems.",,, to read more go here: http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/08/complexity_brak062961.html
Perhaps some may appeal to some hyper-intelligent Aliens, as Richard Dawkins did in his infamous interview with Ben Stein, (also known as the ABG (Anything But God) hypothesis) ,,,
Ben Stein vs. Richard Dawkins Interview http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlZtEjtlirc
,, So to make the case even more firm that God created life in this universe, Quantum Entanglement (spooky action at a distance) requires a beyond space and time cause to explain its existence in this universe,,
Looking Beyond Space and Time to Cope With Quantum Theory – (Oct. 28, 2012) Excerpt: The remaining option is to accept that (quantum) influences must be infinitely fast,,, “Our result gives weight to the idea that quantum correlations somehow arise from outside spacetime, in the sense that no story in space and time can describe them,” says Nicolas Gisin, Professor at the University of Geneva, Switzerland,,, http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/10/121028142217.htm
And this 'non-local', beyond space and time, effect for quantum entanglement is now confirmed to an almost unbelievable 70 standard deviations:
Closing the last Bell-test loophole for photons - Jun 11, 2013 Excerpt: That combination, the researchers write, was "crucial for achieving a sufficiently high collection efficiency," resulting in a high-accuracy data set – requiring no assumptions or correction of count rates – that confirmed quantum entanglement to nearly 70 standard deviations.,,, http://phys.org/news/2013-06-bell-test-loophole-photons.html
The following articles give us a small glimpse as to what it truly means for entanglement to be confirmed to an order of '70 standard deviations':
Standard deviation Excerpt: Particle physics uses a standard of "5 sigma" for the declaration of a discovery.[3] At five-sigma there is only one chance in nearly two million that a random fluctuation would yield the result. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deviation#Particle_physics SSDD: a 22 sigma event is consistent with the physics of fair coins? - June 23, 2013 Excerpt: So 500 coins heads is (500-250)/11 = 22 standard deviations (22 sigma) from expectation! These numbers are so extreme, it’s probably inappropriate to even use the normal distribution’s approximation of the binomial distribution, and hence “22 sigma” just becomes a figure of speech in this extreme case… https://uncommondescent.com/mathematics/ssdd-a-22-sigma-event-is-consistent-with-the-physics-of-fair-coins/
bornagain77
September 5, 2013
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My $.02 The origin of the universe demonstrates the laws that exist within that universe. Life operates within those laws. Perhaps that is why some/many see the origin of life as so compelling - because we establish by experiment the laws of gravity and thermodynamics, and in doing so, we demonstrate what they can and cannot accomplish.Upright BiPed
September 5, 2013
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I believe the creation of life pales in comparison to creation of the fine tuned universe. I can imagine a path to the creation of life and all its intricacies. I cannot imagine anything but an incredibly immense intelligence behind the universe. Thus, I believe the cosmological argument is a far better argument for a creator. Also the multiple universe hypothesis is a self contradictory one in terms of the existence of a god of immense intelligence. But the appearance of life and its changes points to some form of intelligence in its history and is another refutation of the naturalistic hypothesis. That is the best one can do with that.jerry
September 5, 2013
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Gregory @ 1: You make several assertions in your comment. You back none of them with evidence or argument. Until you do, it is safe for the rest of us to ignore you, which I will now do.Barry Arrington
September 5, 2013
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Ben Stein – EXPELLED – The Staggering Complexity Of The Cell – video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4227700 DNA - Replication, Wrapping & Mitosis - video http://vimeo.com/33882804 The inner life of a cell – Harvard University – video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJyUtbn0O5Y Journey Inside The Cell – Stephen Meyer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fiJupfbSpg Through the Virtual Cell – video http://www.youtube.com/user/ndsuvirtualcell#p/u/4/YM2X1c4K1x0 Programming of Life – Eukaryotic Cell – video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVCwDOMCpXY The Central Dogma (English version) – video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ygpqVr7_xs Molecular Biology Animations – Demo Reel http://www.metacafe.com/w/5915291/ Mitochondria – Molecular Machine – Powerhouse Of The Cell – video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/5510941/ etc.. etc..bornagain77
September 5, 2013
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