Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Many atheists just want to get along, and many lab scientists just want more children


Missed this one: In “Science and religion do mix” (9/22/2011), we learn from a Rice University media release written by Amy Hodges that sociologist Elaine Howard Ecklund’s research shows that

– more than 20 percent of atheist scientists are spiritual. Presumably, these aren’t the people who are trying to get the Salvation Army Christmas charity Santa banished from shopping malls.

– many top US scientists want more children. If these people are scientists, surely they know what they can, um, do about that … Seriously, they say they want to spend more time at home, less in the lab, which shows that they are well on their way to solving the problem. 😉

– Study: Atheists and Agnostics Negotiate Religion and Family. We assume that includes not saying rude things at a baptism, bris, wedding, or funeral, where one’s opinion was neither asked nor expected.

That last point demarcate the “new atheists” from the (we hope) majority who can live in a civil society peacefully.


How Did The Image Form On The Shroud? - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4045581 "The shroud image is made from tiny fibres that are (each) 1/10th of a human hair. The picture elements are actually randomly distributed like the dots in your newspaper, photograph or magazine photograph. To do this you would need an incredibly accurate atomic laser. This technology does NOT exist (even to this day)." Kevin Moran - Optical Engineer "the closest science can come to explaining how the image of the Man in the Shroud got there is by comparing the situation to a controlled burst of high-intensity radiation similar to the Hiroshima bomb explosion which "printed" images of incinerated people on building walls." Frank Tribbe - Leading Scholar And Author On Shroud Research
This following video and article give fairly deep insight into what the image formation on the Shroud signifies for us:
The Center Of The Universe Is Life! - General Relativity, Quantum Mechanics, Entropy and The Shroud Of Turin - video http://www.metacafe.com/w/5070355 Centrality of Each Individual Observer In The Universe and Christ’s Credible Reconciliation Of General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics https://docs.google.com/document/d/17SDgYPHPcrl1XX39EXhaQzk7M0zmANKdYIetpZ-WB5Y/edit?hl=en_US THE EVENT HORIZON (Space-Time Singularity) OF THE SHROUD OF TURIN. - Isabel Piczek - Particle Physicist Excerpt: We have stated before that the images on the Shroud firmly indicate the total absence of Gravity. Yet they also firmly indicate the presence of the Event Horizon. These two seemingly contradict each other and they necessitate the past presence of something more powerful than Gravity that had the capacity to solve the above paradox. http://shroud3d.com/findings/isabel-piczek-image-formation A Particle Physicist Looks At The Turin Shroud - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4105160/ Turin Shroud Enters 3D Age - Front and Back 3-D images - articles and videos https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1gDY4CJkoFedewMG94gdUk1Z1jexestdy5fh87RwWAfg
Even with the advantage of all our advanced space-age technology at their fingertips, all scientists can guess is that it was some type of electro-magnetic radiation (light) which is not natural to this world. Kevin Moran, a scientist working on the mysterious '3D' nature of the Shroud image, states the 'supernatural' explanation this way:
"It is not a continuum or spherical-front radiation that made the image, as visible or UV light. It is not the X-ray radiation that obeys the one over R squared law that we are so accustomed to in medicine. It is more unique. It is suggested that the image was formed when a high-energy particle struck the fiber and released radiation within the fiber at a speed greater that the local speed of light. Since the fiber acts as a light pipe, this energy moved out through the fiber until it encountered an optical discontinuity, then it slowed to the local speed of light and dispersed. The fact that the pixels don’t fluoresce suggests that the conversion to their now brittle dehydrated state occurred instantly and completely so no partial products remain to be activated by the ultraviolet light. This suggests a quantum event where a finite amount of energy transferred abruptly. The fact that there are images front and back suggests the radiating particles were released along the gravity vector. The radiation pressure may also help explain why the blood was "lifted cleanly" from the body as it transformed to a resurrected state." http://www.shroudstory.com/natural.htm
If scientists want to find the source for the supernatural light which made the "3D - photographic negative" image I suggest they look to the thousands of documented Near-Death Experiences (NDE's) in Judeo-Christian cultures. It is in their testimonies that you will find mention of an indescribably bright 'Light' or 'Being of Light' who is always described as being of a much brighter intensity of light than the people had ever seen before. All people who have been in the presence of 'The Being of Light' while having a deep NDE have no doubt whatsoever that the 'The Being of Light' they were in the presence of is none other than 'The Lord God Almighty' of heaven and earth.
Near Death Experience – The Tunnel, The Light, The Life Review – video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4200200/
etc.. etc.. etc.. Verse and Music:
John 20:4-8 4 Both were running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. 5 He bent over and looked in at the strips of linen lying there but did not go in. 6 Then Simon Peter came along behind him and went straight into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there, 7 as well as the cloth that had been wrapped around Jesus’ head. The cloth was still lying in its place, separate from the linen. 8 Finally the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went inside. He saw and believed. Set Me Free - Casting Crowns & The Passion Of The Christ - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_Ifc5OFwTU
velikovskys; This following recent video revealed a very surprising holographic image that was found on the Shroud:
Turin Shroud Hologram Reveals The Words 'The Lamb' - short video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4041205
further notes:
Forensic evidence of the Shroud of Turin - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYG6wETAxjI New Evidence Overturns Shroud Of Turin Carbon Dating - Joseph G. Marino and M. Sue Benford - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4222339
The following is the main peer reviewed paper which has refuted the flawed 1989 Carbon Dating:
Why The Carbon 14 Samples Are Invalid, Raymond Rogers per: Thermochimica Acta (Volume 425 pages 189-194, Los Alamos National Laboratory, University of California) Excerpt: Preliminary estimates of the kinetics constants for the loss of vanillin from lignin indicate a much older age for the cloth than the radiocarbon analyses. The radiocarbon sampling area is uniquely coated with a yellow–brown plant gum containing dye lakes. Pyrolysis-mass-spectrometry results from the sample area coupled with microscopic and microchemical observations prove that the radiocarbon sample was not part of the original cloth of the Shroud of Turin. The radiocarbon date was thus not valid for determining the true age of the shroud. The fact that vanillin can not be detected in the lignin on shroud fibers, Dead Sea scrolls linen, and other very old linens indicates that the shroud is quite old. A determination of the kinetics of vanillin loss suggests that the shroud is between 1300- and 3000-years old. Even allowing for errors in the measurements and assumptions about storage conditions, the cloth is unlikely to be as young as 840 years. http://www.ntskeptics.org/issues/shroud/shroudold.htm
Rogers passed away shortly after publishing this paper, but his work was ultimately verified by no less than the Los Alamos National Laboratory:
Carbon Dating Of The Turin Shroud Completely Overturned by Scientific Peer Review Excerpt: Rogers also asked John Brown, a materials forensic expert from Georgia Tech to confirm his finding using different methods. Brown did so. He also concluded that the shroud had been mended with newer material. Since then, a team of nine scientists at Los Alamos has also confirmed Rogers work, also with different methods and procedures. Much of this new information has been recently published in Chemistry Today. http://shroudofturin.wordpress.com/2009/02/19/the-custodians-of-time/
This following is the Los Alamos National Laboratory report and video which completely confirms the Rogers' paper:
“Analytical Results on Thread Samples Taken from the Raes Sampling Area (Corner) of the Shroud Cloth” (Aug 2008) Excerpt: The age-dating process failed to recognize one of the first rules of analytical chemistry that any sample taken for characterization of an area or population must necessarily be representative of the whole. The part must be representative of the whole. Our analyses of the three thread samples taken from the Raes and C-14 sampling corner showed that this was not the case....... LANL’s work confirms the research published in Thermochimica Acta (Jan. 2005) by the late Raymond Rogers, a chemist who had studied actual C-14 samples and concluded the sample was not part of the original cloth possibly due to the area having been repaired. - Robert Villarreal - Los Alamos National Laboratory Shroud Of Turin Carbon Dating Overturned By Scientific Peer Review - Robert Villarreal - Press Release video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4041193 THE SHROUD AS AN ANCIENT TEXTILE - Evidence of Authenticity http://www.newgeology.us/presentation24.html Shroud Of Turin - Sewn From Two Pieces - 2000 Years Old - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4109101 The Sudarium of Oviedo http://www.shroudstory.com/sudarium.htm
Junkdnaforlife: Presents empirical evidence for Jesus, supporting to the tiniest detail the Gospel accounts of the Passion event What is the empirical evidence that the figure on the shroud is Jesus? velikovskys
The shroud is rarely mentioned by the sharper atheists. For fear that the mentioning of it (even for the purpose of mocking), would bring attention to it. It sticks a fork in the "there's no evidence except for stories in an old book," mantra. Secondly, when faced with the Shroud, they are put in a position that in order to develop an argument to refute it, they need to circumvent the scientific method, and they end up looking just like the "dogmatic fools" they crusade against. So the Shroud does two things: 1) Presents empirical evidence for Jesus, supporting to the tiniest detail the Gospel accounts of the Passion event, 2) Forces atheists into desperate faith based arguments which exposes their adherence to the scientific method as simply a tool to cultivate a false sense of authority to the general public in which to advance their ideology, and which (the scientific method) will be abandoned at any time it erodes their position. junkdnaforlife
wallstreeter43, that was cool! Must look into that book, it sounds like it will be a good read. bornagain77
My favorite story was that of former agnostic Mark Antonacci who one day had a big argument with his christian girlfriend and decided to prove to his girl friend that this God stuff was nothing but a fairy tale. He is a lawyer that was standing in line waiting to order his lunch and there happened to be a magazine right next to him about the shroud of Turin. In his own words the image kept staring at him until he put it on his tray. He then made it his mission to prOve that the shroud was a fraud. 20 years later he accepts the lord into his heart and writes a bOok called the resurrection of the shroud. An amazing story of how the lord can reach out to someone in such an unexpected way.:) wallstreeter43
Hopefully when they are in that restaurant a spark might happen from within them, and they finally decide to a small bite of the bread of life :) wallstreeter43
Going to Church and not coming to belief in God is like going to the best restaurant in town and never eating. ,, No steak for me please, I'll just enjoy the smells while I sit here in the lobby starving. :) bornagain77

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