BREAKING: President Trump, Mrs Trump & Ms Hicks are Positive for CV-19

_{kairosfocus
October 2, 2020

News Highlights

1}_{Categories
News Highlights}

Share: Facebook; Twitter/X; LinkedIn; Flipboard; Print; Email

Tweets:

Tonight, @ FLOTUS and I tested positive for COVID-19. We will begin our quarantine and recovery process immediately. We will get through this TOGETHER!
— Donald J. Trump (@ realDonaldTrump) October 2, 2020

Hope Hicks, who has been working so hard without even taking a small break, has just tested positive for Covid 19. Terrible! The First Lady and I are waiting for our test results. In the meantime, we will begin our quarantine process!
— Donald J. Trump (@ realDonaldTrump) October 2, 2020

When you thought an extraordinarily chaotic year could not pull out another twist. Well, here it is. END

PS: As broad context

PPS: For reference on HCQ

Also:

PPPS: A sampler from a former CEO, Twitter (cf discussion at Forbes [also here]) commented on by Michelle Malkin, a few days ago:

See, now, that this is NOT a normal silly season cycle?

PPPPS: A summary on the U/L trajectory of CV19:

Comments

RHolt, first, scroll up and read, the face value is not known to have CV19 at that time. Without good evidence to the contrary that is the reasonable start point. Next, not testing of Mr Trump primarily but testing of those seeking close access. Just as with access to a country. The point is to avoid risky contacts. KFkairosfocus_{October 7, 2020
October
10
Oct
7
07
2020
03:36 PM
3
03
36
PM
PDT}

KF @ 242 'first, the import of the test was that he had no known CV19 positive status at that time' What time? What date? If you have information on the date of Trump's last negative test in would be the only person that has that knowledge outside of Trump and his doctor. It is important to know when the last negative test was and they are withholding that information likely because it wold expose an unflattering timeline. KF @ 242 'Second, there is no way that testing was the foundation of a protective process' The WH administration has made clear and unequivocal statements that testing is the foundation of their safety net/protocol. As for disease progression he is heavily under the influence of one of the most powerful steroids in medicine and that class of drug can mask many problems that can re-occur upon withdrawal. Hope he is OK but he is by no means out of the woods yet especially if his lung scans are unfavorable but that is more information that is being withheld again likely because the results portray a figure in opposition to the one Trump wishes to project.RHolt_{October 7, 2020
October
10
Oct
7
07
2020
03:29 PM
3
03
29
PM
PDT}

KF, Do you still think smart money is that Trump wins the election? :PdaveS_{October 7, 2020
October
10
Oct
7
07
2020
03:13 PM
3
03
13
PM
PDT}

RHolt, first, the import of the test was that he had no known CV19 positive status at that time. Second, there is no way that testing was the foundation of a protective process. Layered protection and screening of access would be. Third, the tests would probably be used periodically (but not every day) or when a questionable contact obtained. Fourth, we are looking at symptom free in context of a recovery track. Relapse is doubtless possible but not likely to be probable. Smart money is that he has beaten the disease, and the next four or so days of medical follow up will confirm the outcome. Of course, he is probably being tested daily now . . . very different from daily for what six months. But then the point is, he is in care of top flight professionals and we need to recognise that. Some of the dismissive commentary on the doctors motivated by obvious partisan hostility that popped up in the Twitter threads tells me even more about how far off the rails the US has now gone. KFkairosfocus_{October 7, 2020
October
10
Oct
7
07
2020
03:08 PM
3
03
08
PM
PDT}

ET @ 239 'The viral S protein binds to the epithelial cell wall’s angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) receptor. Raising lysosomal pH changes (via indirect enzymatic action) the ‘shape’ of ACE2 enough that the S protein cannot bind to it, thus preventing cell infection.' That is a bare assertion with no supporting data. Notice the word 'Potential' in your second citations title. There is a reason they used that word. Do you know why?RHolt_{October 7, 2020
October
10
Oct
7
07
2020
02:26 PM
2
02
26
PM
PDT}

KF @ 238 'You will see that a week ago or so he was awaiting results of a test, where a close aide had recently been announced.' .........and the results were? Here are the facts on the ground you, I, and the citizens of the US don't know when the last negative test was. There are people who know but they don't want us to have that information for some reason. Same goes for the lung scan results. Given Trump's affection for bravado it isn't a very far leap to recognize that positive information would be broadcast loudly and frequently and negative information will be covered up. KF @ 238 'I doubt that anyone would tolerate routine daily testing for prolonged periods with the sort of procedure in use for nasal swabs.' If testing is the foundation of your safety protocol it would be pretty irresponsible to have a lapse for any reason. It would be like having safe sex only some of the time and thinking you are protected. As for disease progression it's likely that he is finished with the steroid treatment and that opens the window of concern. The steroids could be extended but that has it's own risks as well. .RHolt_{October 7, 2020
October
10
Oct
7
07
2020
02:21 PM
2
02
21
PM
PDT}

For RHolt- From the original article, again
The mechanism of chloroquine action on RA has long been well known. It increases a cell’s lysosomal pH. (Lysosomes are membrane bound cellular organelles [think tiny balloons inside the cell floating at a lower pH in the higher pH cytosol] containing about 50 enzymes, discovered and named in 1955.) This in turn changes their ‘leaked’ enzyme balance into the cytosol, which then inhibits the cell’s RA tissue antigen signaling, which in turn reduces the immune system’s attack on the RA tissue, slowing (but usually not stopping) progression of RA tissue damage. The reason the Chinese and then the French thought to use chloroquine against Wuhan coronavirus is this same mechanism of action, albeit with different sequelae. The viral S protein binds to the epithelial cell wall’s angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) receptor. Raising lysosomal pH changes (via indirect enzymatic action) the ‘shape’ of ACE2 enough that the S protein cannot bind to it, thus preventing cell infection. Chloroquine changes the cell ‘lock’ so the viral ‘key’ doesn’t work. Does not undo damage from infected cells, nor prevent an infected person from shedding existing viable virus, but does stop the spread in an infected person’s body—a promising therapeutic for those testing positive.
See also: Hydroxychloroquine in COVID-19: Potential Mechanism of Action Against SARS-CoV-2:
Its mechanism of action (MOA) includes the interference in the endocytic pathway, blockade of sialic acid receptors, restriction of pH mediated spike (S) protein cleavage at the angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) binding site and prevention of cytokine storm.
ET_{October 7, 2020
October
10
Oct
7
07
2020
02:18 PM
2
02
18
PM
PDT}

RHolt, scroll up to OP. You will see that a week ago or so he was awaiting results of a test, where a close aide had recently been announced. I would imagine he was concerned as to whether he had caught an ordinary flu or this disease. I doubt that anyone would tolerate routine daily testing for prolonged periods with the sort of procedure in use for nasal swabs. CV19 was confirmed that evening. Add on a five day latent incubation and come forward and antibody presence is seemingly reasonable, though didn't he receive an antibody treatment early on. KF PS: Disease pattern, it seems no serious progress to severe condition.kairosfocus_{October 7, 2020
October
10
Oct
7
07
2020
01:24 PM
1
01
24
PM
PDT}

KF @ 227 'RHolt, do you really want to go to might and/or manipulation make ‘law’' this has nothing to do with might and/or manipulation make 'law' it does have to do with a correction to your obviously factually incorrect statement. Here is another example of the arbitrary nature of laws: age of consent. In the USA age of consent ranges from 16-18, Japan it is 13, in China it is 14, in Bahrain it is 21. Obviously, to anyone reading this is that these are clearly completely arbitrary law(s) made, and enforced, by the citizens and law enforcement personnel in the various states and countries. We could look at numerous other examples of laws that are completely arbitrary so to state that laws are not arbitrary is clearly not true.RHolt_{October 7, 2020
October
10
Oct
7
07
2020
01:22 PM
1
01
22
PM
PDT}

JVL: And BTW passing a decree under colour of law saying pi = 22/7 or any other ratio of whole numbers or any does not change the reality.
Bad example. Assigning any value to the symbol pi is clearly arbitrary.AndyClue_{October 7, 2020
October
10
Oct
7
07
2020
01:19 PM
1
01
19
PM
PDT}

Kairosfocus: JVL, you full well know that there is no right of distraction or disruptive behaviour. Clearly opinions which you find uncomfortable can be dismissed as distracting without attempting to address them. Clearly dissenting opinions you are unable to address can be censored. Is that how your ideal government would behave? Anything that is uncomfortable or hard to answer would just be dismissed and ignored? Isn't that what you accuse people you disagree with of doing? What kind of state do you really support? Do you really support life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness or not?JVL_{October 7, 2020
October
10
Oct
7
07
2020
01:17 PM
1
01
17
PM
PDT}

KF @ 228 'fever free 4 days' He had better be fever free since there is no better fever suppressor than the glucocorticoid steroid dexamethasone. The question remains if that status will be maintained through the continued dangerous period of potential remission. On the detection of antibodies that typically occurs 2 weeks after infection which adds fuel to the fire on the question if he was positive (and knew it) at Tuesday's debate and the likely reason why he and his entourage arrived too late to be tested.RHolt_{October 7, 2020
October
10
Oct
7
07
2020
01:15 PM
1
01
15
PM
PDT}

JVL, you full well know that there is no right of distraction or disruptive behaviour. UD entertained the so-called same sex "marriage" issue some time ago and the usual assertions were raised at length. There is no need to sidetrack this discussion from its focus through toxic distractor: monitoring news on the illness of the person presently holding the US Presidency, an issue relevant to global stability. As of now, the series of reports points to good recovery. KFkairosfocus_{October 7, 2020
October
10
Oct
7
07
2020
01:01 PM
1
01
01
PM
PDT}

SNIP -- insistently distractive. There is no right to sidetrack, irrelevancies on projecting "religion" as tainting motive and unwarranted assertions on lacking confidence in warrant or legal case are duly noted as third phase trifecta rhetoric: red herrings led to strawmen soaked in ad hominems and set alight. As the below notes, UD has already entertained this toxic side issue some time ago at length during this covid crisis. That issue will not be settled here but it is in fact symptomatic of the deeper perversion of law through severing law from considerations of its foundations in our morally governed nature; starting with the inescapable first duties of reason that your own arguments pivot on. In the end either we will return to recognising such built in law that governs responsible, rationally free creatures, or else we will fall into a nihilistic vortex of might and manipulation. Already, we have seen the next item on the nihilistic confusion agenda: trying to erase the manifest fact of the two sexes and where that points. That nihilistic confusion is a factor in the present 4GW red guard cultural revolution playing out in the USA. KF, thread owner.JVL_{October 7, 2020
October
10
Oct
7
07
2020
12:55 PM
12
12
55
PM
PDT}

SNIP -- distractive as was warned. And BTW passing a decree under colour of law saying pi = 22/7 or any other ratio of whole numbers or any does not change the reality. JVL_{October 7, 2020
October
10
Oct
7
07
2020
12:47 PM
12
12
47
PM
PDT}

SNIP -- distractive as warned.JVL_{October 7, 2020
October
10
Oct
7
07
2020
12:45 PM
12
12
45
PM
PDT}

Kairosfocus: SNIP -gavelled, as was warned. I will note the arbitrary shift under colour of law already happened, undermining appeal to anything but power. The consequences, we need to ponder. So, you're censoring dissenting views now? Isn't this whole website about supporting dissenting views? Isn't it about considering the data and the evidence and not about supporting some hierarchy? Could that possibly be a mote in your own eye?JVL_{October 7, 2020
October
10
Oct
7
07
2020
12:42 PM
12
12
42
PM
PDT}

UPDATE: W H Press Secretary releases Wed Oct 7 Doctor's statement. Mr Trump is within normal range on examination, has been symptom free 24 hours, fever free 4 days. Blood drawn Monday had detectable antibodies, that drawn Tuesday did not. Obviously monitoring continues, it was set to go through the week end. KFkairosfocus_{October 7, 2020
October
10
Oct
7
07
2020
12:13 PM
12
12
13
PM
PDT}

RHolt, do you really want to go to might and/or manipulation make 'law'/ 'lawfulness'/ 'right'/ 'rights'/ 'justice'/ 'truth'/ 'logic'/ 'knowledge' etc? You are inadvertently demonstrating the point as to the radical breach with first duties and first principles that has been made and where it ends. Nihilism. Our civilisation is playing with hell fire it does not understand. KFkairosfocus_{October 7, 2020
October
10
Oct
7
07
2020
11:57 AM
11
11
57
AM
PDT}

KF @ 220 'law is not arbitrary' Sure it is. Example permissive age for drinking alcohol.RHolt_{October 7, 2020
October
10
Oct
7
07
2020
10:10 AM
10
10
10
AM
PDT}

SNIP -gavelled, as was warned. I will note the arbitrary shift under colour of law already happened, undermining appeal to anything but power. The consequences, we need to ponder. KF JVL_{October 7, 2020
October
10
Oct
7
07
2020
10:07 AM
10
10
07
AM
PDT}

DaveS @ 213 'Yes, not anabolic of course. Not sure why that bears mentioning.' That is a puzzling response by KF. The only thing I can come up with is that he somehow thinks a statement of this sort negates the well-known neurologic and behavioral effects of dexamethasone. These well-known side effects include insomnia, euphoria, felling of invincibility, and at times delusions. the list is not inclusive and there are more but these are the most applicable to the Trump's condition/treatment. I imagine he is being given something on the order of 6 grams of dexamethasone per day. Perhaps KF will clear up why he thinks that the distinction between anabolic and glucocorticoid is somehow relevant to the conversation. Or not.RHolt_{October 7, 2020
October
10
Oct
7
07
2020
10:05 AM
10
10
05
AM
PDT}

ET @ 165 'I posted the references for HCQ and ACE2 receptors.' You did not post any references demonstrating that HCQ treatment actually alters ACE2 receptor conformation. Now if you have any references that show this change, e.g., via x-ray crystallography, go ahead and post them and make me eat crow. Otherwise, the previously posted references documenting the lack of efficacy of HCQ treatment on viral replication/infection on human lung and airway tissue stands as very strong evidence that the pathway you and KF think is plausible does not exist in these tissues.RHolt_{October 7, 2020
October
10
Oct
7
07
2020
10:00 AM
10
10
00
AM
PDT}

ET, I am gavelling a toxic distractor. You are right that judges legislating from the bench, under a positivist notion are destructive and are setting awful precedents. The problem is, we are seeing those who imagine they can seize and hold power to control, as the squalling over the USSC vacancy shows. KFkairosfocus_{October 7, 2020
October
10
Oct
7
07
2020
09:28 AM
9
09
28
AM
PDT}

Clarence Thomas weighs in:
“By choosing to privilege a novel constitutional right over the religious liberty interests explicitly protected in the First Amendment, and by doing so undemocratically, the Court has created a problem that only it can fix,” wrote Mr Thomas. “Until then, Obergefell will continue to have ‘ruinous consequences for religious liberty,” he continued, whilst claiming that Davis “may have been one of the first victims of this court’s cavalier treatment of religion in its Obergefell decision” and warned: “She will not be the last.”
It is unnatural and leads to ruinous consequences of religious liberty. So those are the legal arguments that I would make. And again, if we allow same-sex marriages then we can't stop there. The same reasoning applies to all types of marriages.ET_{October 7, 2020
October
10
Oct
7
07
2020
08:58 AM
8
08
58
AM
PDT}

JVL, law is not arbitrary, despite what the legal positivists imagine. That is part of the intellectual bankruptcy of this phase of our civilisation. That bankruptcy invites the nihilism of might and manipulation, leading to breakdown of liberty. Such a fatal conceit is part of what will have to be corrected to restore sound order. KF PS: As an initial thought towards needed reform:
We can readily identify at least seven inescapable first duties of reason. Inescapable, as they are so antecedent to reasoning that even the objector implicitly appeals to them; i.e. they are self-evident. Duties, to truth, to right reason, to prudence, to sound conscience, to neighbour, so also to fairness and justice etc. Such built in law is not invented by parliaments or courts, nor can these principles and duties be abolished by such. (Cf. Cicero in De Legibus, c. 50 BC.) Indeed, it is on this framework that we can set out to soundly understand and duly balance rights, freedoms and duties; which is justice. The legitimate main task of government, then, is to uphold and defend the civil peace of justice through sound community order reflecting the built in, intelligible law of our nature. Where, as my right implies your duty a true right is a binding moral claim to be respected in life, liberty, honestly aquired property, innocent reputation etc. To so justly claim a right, one must therefore demonstrably be in the right. Thus, too, we may compose sound civil law informed by that built-in law of our responsibly, rationally free morally governed nature; from such, we may identify what is unsound or false thus to be reformed or replaced even though enacted under the colour and solemn ceremonies of law. These duties, also, are a framework for understanding and articulating the corpus of built-in law of our morally governed nature, antecedent to civil laws and manifesting our roots in the Supreme Law-giver, the inherently good, utterly wise and just creator-God.
And yes, this points to the inherent lawlessness of the atheists' veto.kairosfocus_{October 7, 2020
October
10
Oct
7
07
2020
08:48 AM
8
08
48
AM
PDT}

JVL & ET, there is no reason to indulge further debate on what is not, though it is pretended under colour of law. It is enough to note that marriage is part of natural law and end the matter. This thread is about a much different matter. KFkairosfocus_{October 7, 2020
October
10
Oct
7
07
2020
08:41 AM
8
08
41
AM
PDT}

ET: It is unnatural, JVL. That is legal reason enough. Not really. You live in a country where rights and privileges are determined by laws and precedents. So, what legal arguments would you make in a court to deny same-sex couples the right to marriage?JVL_{October 7, 2020
October
10
Oct
7
07
2020
08:23 AM
8
08
23
AM
PDT}

Canceling the stimulus negotiations because the democrats want to bail out democratic States that were poorly managed for years. That sounds very reasonable to me. What we should do is cancel the shut down and have everyone get back to work. First, the EVMS covid-19 management protocol should be made public- as in posted all over the internet and in newspapers. It should stress the prophylaxis. Then, if people don't follow it their infection is on them.ET_{October 7, 2020
October
10
Oct
7
07
2020
07:44 AM
7
07
44
AM
PDT}

It is unnatural, JVL. That is legal reason enough.ET_{October 7, 2020
October
10
Oct
7
07
2020
07:41 AM
7
07
41
AM
PDT}

Prev 1 … 14 15 16 17 18 … 24 Next

You must be logged in to post a comment.

Leave a Reply