While scientific topics tied to AI are a main current focus — I will shortly add another headlined comment on why — there are several philosophical and theological topics that keep on coming up in and around UD. So, pardon a quick note on those wider themes. Here, on the soul and linked ideas from the thoughts on justice thread:
JM, 155 to BA77: >>If you think I have not provided any evidence against the immortality of the soul, why don’t you answer my questions regarding the Adam and Eve scriptures?>>
I picked this point up and responded:
KF, 161: >>J-Mac, consider the scriptural definition of physical death: “as the body without the spirit is dead . . . ” and likewise spiritual death is about alienated separation of the creature’s spirit from God: “Your sins have separated . . .” Thus, we need to appreciate that death has a sense of violation of wholeness akin to severing a branch from a vine leading to decay or manifested in decay and of course fruitlessness. By contrast, redemption, regeneration and spiritual rebirth have to do with restoration of relationship with God, and eschatological resurrection of not mere restoration of mortal life but transformation of body to a spiritualised immortal form: “as in Adam all die so also in Christ shall all be made alive . . . ” From this, we see that there is an implied understanding that humans are trans-dimensional amphibians, embodied living souls. I suggest that the human soul is best understood as a bridging interface between spirit [the transdimensional inner self and core of identity] and body [the readily observable outer man].
A typical, tripartite man Christian viewpoint. Note, heart and mind sometimes stand in for the inner man. The body is the outer man, on this frame. Hindus and those influenced by hindu thought will have a rather different view. The classic Greek view talks about body and soul. There are many, diverse perspectives.Clarence Larkin’s tripartite man illustration, amplifying on key texts (again, as documenting a typical Christian tripartite view)
In this context, the spiritual aspect [often called soul by the Greeks] is not subject to disintegration and loss of existence once created. However, it can be alienated from its true source and object and fulfillment through alienation from our Creator, both in time and in eternity, the latter being spoken of as the second death. Perhaps, these thoughts may help?>>
All of this is connected to the emerging theme on embodied, self-aware, enconscienced, morally governed rational, responsible freedom and linked contemplation vs computation on material substrates including neural networks. Memristors etc being a current rising star of the latter.
So, perhaps, we can reflect? END
PS: Let me add today (Feb. 15th) a simplified picture of the Smith two-tier controller cybernetic Model:
The Derek Smith two-tier controller cybernetic model
Comments
Other than a designer, ID does not require that organisms are more than just matter, energy and what emerges from their interactions.
That is false as if living organisms are just matter, energy and what emerges from their interactions then why is a designer required? Information is not just matter, energy and what emerges from their interactions.
A car is nothing more than the interactions of energy and matter.
Is it? Information is required. Can the interactions of matter and energy produce a car?ET
February 11, 2018
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“Everything in ID says that living organisms are more than just matter, energy and what emerges from their interactions.”
Other than a designer, ID does not require that organisms are more than just matter, energy and what emerges from their interactions. A car is nothing more than the interactions of energy and matter. What distinguishes it from random matter is the design.
“If there is a soul, immortal or not, then ID is true.”
Then all we have to do is prove the existence of the soul. I believe in it, but I am a theist. And, I freely admit, that I rely on faith, not evidence, for this belief.Molson Bleu
February 11, 2018
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The Forbidden Fruit
Gen 2:16-17
"16 God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."
Adam: "...surly die...?" What's your definition of death, God?
God: "It's a mystery... You will find out when you sin...
Since I'm all-knowing, I already know you are going to sin...This is just a game to keep me busy...I already know that some morons are going to be questioning what death is, but that's their problem... I'm going to continue to pretend that I know nothing about that and see what happens...
A story like that has gotta be true...;-)J-Mac
February 11, 2018
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Nothing in ID suggests that we need a soul.
Everything in ID says that living organisms are more than just matter, energy and what emerges from their interactions.
If there is a soul, immortal or not, then ID is true.ET
February 11, 2018
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This is all well and good from a Christian theological perspective, but let’s get back to the ID perspective.
Nothing in ID suggests that we need a soul. The fact that humans have souls implies that they must have been part of the design. This being said, there is nothing other than various theistic teachings that tells us that the soul is immortal. We take this on faith. There is certainly nothing in ID that requires an immortal soul, or even a soul that is not 100% dependent on the material brain.
Talking about the soul and the immortal soul is certainly relevant to discussion on a theology web site. It adds nothing to serving the ID community unless we are conceding that ID is really about God.Molson Bleu
February 11, 2018
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A thought on soul-body-spirit (and on the meaning of “death” in the Judaeo-Christian frame of thought)kairosfocus
