FFT: Gender as a social construct — what is the vid below telling us on where our intellectual culture has now reached?

_{kairosfocus
June 10, 2017

Academic Freedom, Evolutionary Incoherence, Logic and Reason, rhetoric, worldview

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Academic Freedom
Evolutionary Incoherence
Logic and Reason
rhetoric
worldview}

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Someone gave the link, I think we need to watch a comparison of real vs fake papers on gender:

I ask us to ponder:

Where have we now reached, why? END

Comments

SB:
I have found nothing on that site that would indicate that data points were omitted from a report without good reason –or even at all — or that there was any misrepresentation involved.
Then you might want to try looking at it with your eyes open. Try googling "Marriage and divorce statistics Eurostat", or try this url http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Marriage_and_divorce_statistics I don't know why the links aren't working for you, because they are for me. Regardless. On the Eurostat page titled "Marriage and Divorce Statistics", you will see a couple tables in the right side-bar. You want to look at the one labeled "Crude marriage rate, selected years, 1960–2015 (per 1 000 persons)" Just in case you still can't find it, which is strange because I can find it by googling several different combinations of words about marriage rates, spain, europe, aerostat, etc., I have reproduced all of the numbers below that were reported for Spain.
YEAR RATE 1960 7.8 1970 7.3 1980 5.9 1990 5.7 2000 5.4 2010 3.6 2011 3.4 2012 3.5 2013 3.3 2014 3.4 2015 3.6
The points that she used are bolded. I can understand excluding the 2011 through 2015 numbers as they have a different resolution (annual) than the rest of the data (decade). But there is absolutely no statistically valid reason for excluding the numbers for 1960 and 1970. This is important because whether or not they are included completely changes the perceived trend.Excluding them suggests a sudden decline at the same time as SSM was legalized (i.e., possibly causal). Including them suggests a continuation of an existing trend. It is possible that their omission was innocent, but that would suggest a level of incompetence that would call the entire report into question.kmidpuddle_{June 21, 2017
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PPS: They are also trotting out a second kidnapped word, "gender," which is blinking out, "indecent assault."kairosfocus_{June 21, 2017
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PS: That poor, kidnapped word "marriage," being held hostage and used in agit prop films while blinking out the Morse for "torture."kairosfocus_{June 21, 2017
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SB, Gessen again:
It’s a no-brainer that (homosexuals) should have the right to marry, but I also think equally that it’s a no-brainer that the institution of marriage should not exist . . . . Fighting for gay marriage generally involves lying about what we are going to do with marriage when we get there—-because we lie that the institution of marriage is not going to change, and that is a lie. The institution of marriage is going to change, and it should change. And again, I don’t think it should exist. And I don’t like taking part in creating fictions about my life. That’s sort of not what I had in mind when I came out thirty years ago. I have three kids who have five parents, more or less, and I don’t see why they shouldn’t have five parents legally . . . . I met my new partner, and she had just had a baby, and that baby’s biological father is my brother, and my daughter’s biological father is a man who lives in Russia, and my adopted son also considers him his father. So the five parents break down into two groups of three . . . . And really, I would like to live in a legal system that is capable of reflecting that reality, and I don’t think that’s compatible with the institution of marriage.
Contrast, say, J C Wright. KFkairosfocus_{June 20, 2017
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Pindi, are dessert foods, foods? If we then lace them with arsenic, would they remain compatible with the primary purpose of eating? KF PS: Why would God create a world in which there are responsible, rational, morally governed creatures with ability to choose? (Ponder, what ability to love and to make a virtuous choice -- including to follow and accept the force of facts and logic -- requires.)kairosfocus_{June 20, 2017
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seversky @357: Wikipedia is all in for gay marriage. So it is with all the institutions in the wikipedia article. So it is with Judge Friedman, who ruled against Michigan's ban on SSM long before Regnerus did his study. Find something from a disinterested source and I will take it under advisement. Meanwhile, no one has presented any credible evidence that Regneris' study is seriously flawed---only sour grapes. Let's find out what mainstream sociologists say: "This first article from Professor Mark Regnerus’ (Professor of Sociology, University of Texas, Austin) New Family Structures Study (NFSS) is published in Social Science Research. It is accompanied by published responses from mainstream sociologists, which while critical of a few important points – as academics always are - they are generally *in praise of his methodology* as well as his unique and needed ground-breaking contribution to the literature on the topic of same-sex parenting. This is key and will go far to rebut the activist’s severe, but largely base-less criticisms."StephenB_{June 20, 2017
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kwm
It will get you to the Eurostat site that you couldn’t open with the very links I provide details. The same data cited in the report you referenced at 287
I have found nothing on that site that would indicate that data points were omitted from a report without good reason --or even at all -- or that there was any misrepresentation involved.StephenB_{June 20, 2017
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seversky, everyone knows that Wikipedia is all in for gay marriage. So it is with all the institutions mentioned in the wikipedia article So it is with Judge Friedman, who ruled against the Michigan ban on same sex marriage well before Regnerus did his study.StephenB_{June 20, 2017
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SB:
I don’t think Googling marriage rates will provide any evidence that someone omitted data points in a report. Don’t worry about it.
It will get you to the Eurostat site that you couldn't open with the very links I provide details. The same data cited in the report you referenced at 287kmidpuddle_{June 20, 2017
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StephenB @ 350
...Regnerus’ report received a lot of attention in the national and internation media, and overnight, Mark Regnerus became a target of LGTB activists and extremists. He was subjected to vicious abuse, extraordinary investigation, and intense hostility – to a degree seldom seen in academia. Yet Regnerus’ study withstood the criticism and remains a break-through example of serious social science research dealing with a volatile, politically-charged topic.”
From the Wikipedia entry for Dr Mark Regnerus:
Major academic organizations including the American Sociological Association, American Academy of Pediatrics and American Medical Association dispute the validity of Regnerus' data and conclusions reached thereof, arguing that unlike previous studies, the statistically tiny number of same sex couples in a study whose sample group largely consisted of failed heterosexual marriages where one of the parents was allegedly homosexual, make it impossible to extrapolate any information about same sex parenting. A review carried out by the American Medical Association noted that:[18]
... The data does not show whether the perceived romantic relationship ever in fact occurred; nor whether the parent self-identified as gay or lesbian; nor whether the same sex relationship was continuous, episodic, or one-time only; nor whether the individual in these categories was actually raised by a homosexual parent (children of gay fathers are often raised by their heterosexual mothers following divorce), much less a parent in a long-term relationship with a same-sex partner. Indeed, most of the participants in these groups spent very little, if any, time being raised by a “same-sex couple.”[18

Regnerus contributed to an amicus brief in opposition to same-sex marriage[25] and appeared as an expert witness in a 2014 federal court hearing regarding Michigan's ban on same-sex marriage. Citing widespread criticism of NFSS methodology, Judge Bernard A. Friedman rejected Regnerus' testimony, alleging the arguments derived from methodologically flawed data were "not worthy of serious consideration" and served rather to please the conservative organizations (Witherspoon Institute and Bradley Foundation) that underwrote the survey research project.[26]
Seversky_{June 20, 2017
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SB, try Googling marriage rates spain. I don’t know why those links aren’t working.
I don't think Googling marriage rates will provide any evidence that someone omitted data points in a report. Don't worry about it. Let's just take the report at face value until we have good evidence to support the notion that there was misrepresentation involved. We can move on to the report @350, which shows that children from same sex couples don't fare so well.StephenB_{June 20, 2017
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seversky, according to the latest study, which I presented @350, those studies you allude to were not the result of random sampling. In other words, they stacked the deck to get the results they wanted.StephenB_{June 20, 2017
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StephenB @ 287
“London, 2 March 2013: The experience of legalising marriage for same-sex couples in Europe and North America shows that such legalisation has negative effects for real marriage and for families, shows latest evidence. The evidence was presented to the House of Commons committee examining the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill, in a written submission by Dr Patricia Morgan, the British family policy researcher, on behalf of the Society for the Protection of Unborn Children (SPUC).
On the other hand:
What does the scholarly research say about the wellbeing of children with gay or lesbian parents?

Overview: We identified 79 scholarly studies that met our criteria for adding to knowledge about the wellbeing of children with gay or lesbian parents. Of those studies, 75 concluded that children of gay or lesbian parents fare no worse than other children. While many of the sample sizes were small, and some studies lacked a control group, researchers regard such studies as providing the best available knowledge about child adjustment, and do not view large, representative samples as essential. We identified four studies concluding that children of gay or lesbian parents face added disadvantages. Since all four took their samples from children who endured family break-ups, a cohort known to face added risks, these studies have been criticized by many scholars as unreliable assessments of the wellbeing of LGB-headed households. Taken together, this research forms an overwhelming scholarly consensus, based on over three decades of peer-reviewed research, that having a gay or lesbian parent does not harm children.
Seversky_{June 20, 2017
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Discussing with liberals is like watching Nascar race. After a while we get to the same spot :-)Eugen_{June 20, 2017
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SB, try Googling marriage rates spain. I don't know why those links aren't working.kmidpuddle_{June 20, 2017
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kwm
SB, sorry. Try this link. http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/s.....statistics
Thanks, but I still can find anything related to the study we have been discussing.StephenB_{June 20, 2017
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kwimmuddle, By the way, here is the latest science to show that children of same sex couples cannot achieve optimum psychological and social development "It Does Matter to Children Whether They Are Raised by Heterosexual or Same-Sex Parents By Lynn Wardle | April 18, 2016 | 12:11 PM EDT (AP Photo/Brennan Linsley) Dr. Mark Regnerus is a University of Texas Sociologist who rocketed to fame – or infamy, depending on one’s views of homosexual parenting – in 2012 with the publication of his study about how well children are doing. Regnerus's study was based upon a new data source: his New Family Structures Study, that involved a sample of 2,988 randomly selected Americans between the ages 18 to 39, including 175 adults with lesbian mothers and 73 with homosexual fathers. The study investigated the respondents’ social and economic behaviors, health behaviors, family of origin, and current relationships. Mark Regnerus, How Different Are the Adult Children of Parents Who Have Same-Sex Relationships? Findings from the New Family Structures Study, Social Science Research, vol. 41 [July 2012]: 752-70. Regnerus first reviewed the existing social science literature. He found that the studies that found “no differences” between children raised by LGTB parents and those raised by intact heterosexual families were “based on non-random, non-representative data often employing small samples that do not allow for generalization to the larger population of gay and lesbian families.” In other words, the “no difference” conclusion was scientifically premature, dubious, and unreliable. Regnerus reported that the 248 adult children who reported parental homosexual behavior prior to age 18 differed from their peers from six other family-of-origin types. The children of lesbian mothers differed especially. Compared to their peers from intact families, those children raised by lesbians reported significant risks of unfavorable outcomes in twenty-five of the forty measures of well-being. All but one of those disparities were statistically significant. Children raised by gay men reported statistically significant difference in eleven measures. Children raised by parents who engaged in same-sex relationships were more likely than children raised in intact biological families to experience numerous negative life outcomes, including: • Poorer educational attainment • Overall lower levels of mental and physical health • More use of counseling or mental health therapy • Greater experience of depression • Suicide ideation (statistically significant only for children of gay fathers) • Experience of sexual molestation • Unemployment or part-time employment as young adults • Having pled guilty to non-minor legal offenses • Having lived in homes with lower income levels (statistically significant only for children of lesbian mothers) Regnerus’ report received a lot of attention in the national and internation media, and overnight, Mark Regnerus became a target of LGTB activists and extremists. He was subjected to vicious abuse, extraordinary investigation, and intense hostility – to a degree seldom seen in academia. Yet Regnerus’ study withstood the criticism and remains a break-through example of serious social science research dealing with a volatile, politically-charged topic."StephenB_{June 20, 2017
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SB, sorry. Try this link. http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Marriage_and_divorce_statisticskmidpuddle_{June 20, 2017
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kwm, I tried to use the Eurostat site by doing a search for Dr. Patricia Morgan, but nothing came up. Can you tell me how you obtained the source data that you cited and how you discovered that the author omitted two data points?StephenB_{June 20, 2017
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SB, it was difficult to find out what her actual sources were because they were not properly reference. Not a surprise if the author doesn't want people to look up the source data. But I assumed that the data came from the Eurostat report that was in the references. http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Crude_marriage_rate,_selected_years,_1960-2015_(per_1_000_persons).pngkmidpuddle_{June 20, 2017
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KF, is having pudding/desert consistent with the "key end" of eating, (presumably being to provide fuel for the body)? No, there's no need for it. There's no need for most of the things we do with food. Have you been to France? Walked into a Boulangerie? All the amazing things we create to eat are largely just for the sheer pleasure and joy of eating. Not refuelling. Think of sex in the same way, and you might understand the poverty in your's and SB's view of it.Pindi_{June 20, 2017
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kwimmuddle
The author of the source data didn’t exclude the data. It was the author of the report presented to parliament.
What I am asking for is the scientific information from the author of the source that you used to draw your conclusions (a link, if possible). Presumably, you have it, since you seem to know what is in it. Or, are you drawing from a secondary source who read both accounts and then made the accusation of misrepresentation, providing you with his interpretation and the numbers that you cited?StephenB_{June 20, 2017
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kwimmuddle
Expected and required are very different things. But the fact is that children don’t need this (motjer amd father) .
The fact is that children do need a man woman as parents for optimum psychological and social development. That is one important reason why gay marriage hurts society.StephenB_{June 20, 2017
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Pindi
Is the belief that dogs are ritually unclean in accordance with the natural law? And how do you know?
Your question is not precise enough. If someone tried to convert that belief into a civil law, then it would violate the natural moral law. I know that because any such civil law would violate the canons of reason, logic, and common sense.StephenB_{June 20, 2017
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Pindi, while I do not wish to elaborate on details, there is an obvious framework for copulation connected to its key end, conception and initiation of new life, around which secondary ends may occur but need to be consistent with that. Other acts that may stimulate genitalia etc but take it out of context, clearly for cause were characterised as unnatural acts. KF PS: I think we have generally speaking been led into a frame of thought about sexually linked matters that can be compared to the dilemma of adopting a crooked yardstick. Such an error then leads to rejection of what is sound as it will not conform to the substituted standard, as it is already aligned to realities that are being rejected. That is why I keep pointing to the need for plumbline, testing truths [preferably self evident ones but patent, hard to deny facts will do] that then challenge the substitutes. I again suggest a reading of Wright.kairosfocus_{June 20, 2017
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KF:
You are now outright making an invidious comparison between marriage and slavery.
Nonsense. I am making a comparison between things with millennia deep history. I thought I made that obvious by repeating the phrase "mellinia deep history". KMP, your utterly offensive choice of comparatives -- especially given the wider context of your remarks -- condemns you, period; by revealing underlying perceptions and attitudes. Indeed, it invites the direct inference that what Gessen has blurted, you imply: abolition of marriage as a mark of "progress." You need to take a time out and do some serious, ground up rethinking. KFkmidpuddle_{June 20, 2017
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KF:
Cat out of the bag, including the use of strategic deception and hidden agendas.
Here are a few other clips:
They died in shame and disgrace, citizens of a cursed nation of...unholy perverts who have departed from the living God to worship on 'Brokeback Mountain'.

God Sent the Shooter[.

Thank God for the Tsunami.

Thank God for AIDS

Fags Are Worthy of Death

We are praying that the dear Lord would burn many more Australians alive!

We wish you were thirty-three thousand killed, but we are thankful to our Father for thirty-three.

The President of the United States gets his jollies masturbating horses!
Cat out of the bag, including the use of strategic deception and hidden agendas. Do you really want to play duelling banjoes with quotes from fringe homosexuals and fring preachers? The fringe never speaks for the majority. That is why they are called fringe. KMP, apparently it has not dawned on you that Ms Gessen is a major spokesman, and is not isolated nor was she condemned for her views. Indeed her rejection of marriage met with loud applause. I suggest that you need to take a serious time out and reconsider what you have been saying and doing. Perhaps, too, you have not attended to this from the apostle Paul, which shows just how out of line the fringe voices you clip are: "9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous[b] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,[c] 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." [1 Cor 6:9 - 11. NB: c refers to two Gk terms denoting specifically active and passive parts in such acts, one of which may be a Pauline coinage from a key phrase in Lev 18.]kmidpuddle_{June 20, 2017
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KMP, when you are in a hole, it is advisable to stop digging in deeper. You are now outright making an invidious comparison between marriage and slavery. That choice of comparison speaks telling volumes. KFkairosfocus_{June 20, 2017
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F/N: More detailed transcript clips, from Gessen:
It’s a no-brainer that (homosexuals) should have the right to marry, but I also think equally that it’s a no-brainer that the institution of marriage should not exist . . . . Fighting for gay marriage generally involves lying about what we are going to do with marriage when we get there—-because we lie that the institution of marriage is not going to change, and that is a lie. The institution of marriage is going to change, and it should change. And again, I don’t think it should exist. And I don’t like taking part in creating fictions about my life. That’s sort of not what I had in mind when I came out thirty years ago. I have three kids who have five parents, more or less, and I don’t see why they shouldn’t have five parents legally . . . . I met my new partner, and she had just had a baby, and that baby’s biological father is my brother, and my daughter’s biological father is a man who lives in Russia, and my adopted son also considers him his father. So the five parents break down into two groups of three . . . . And really, I would like to live in a legal system that is capable of reflecting that reality, and I don’t think that’s compatible with the institution of marriage.
This seems to post the audio of a 2012 panel discussion in Australia. Cat out of the bag, including the use of strategic deception and hidden agendas. KFkairosfocus_{June 20, 2017
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KF: "unnatural acts of a sexual nature [by virtue of stimulation of the genitals etc that can and do trigger an orgasmic response]" In what sense would these acts be unnatural? Surely if they trigger an orgasmic response they are natural? Why would God create our orgasmic responses so that they could be triggered unnaturally?Pindi_{June 20, 2017
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