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Coupled Complex Specified Information

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Imagine this paradoxical scenario: NASA decides to construct a new space station and a new space shuttle. It assigns to a team of engineers the job of designing the station and to another team the job of designing the shuttle, without any specifications about the relations between the two projects and the mandate that they must not exchange information (the projects are top secret). The teams finish their work and the systems are launched into the space. Would you bet one cent that the shuttle will succeed to dock to the station to exchange materials and astronauts? Sure not because when two complex systems must interface in a complex manner (as the station and the shuttle when they are coupled together) their projects have to be thought together just from the beginning. Eventually two different teams can be in charge of the two designs but the teams must strictly collaborate and exchange a lot of information.

This Kafkian story introduces us to the concept of what could be called “coupled complex specified information” (cCSI), that is a particular form of complex specified information (CSI) concerning two systems instead of one alone. In general when two systems must share a complex interface the CSI of the interface is strictly correlated to the CSI of the systems. As such the three projects cannot arise independently but have to be developed almost together with a higher direction that considers them almost like a unique system. For a symbolic representation of the cCSI between two systems A and B see the following figure:

fig2

Of course, beyond the above astronautic example, one can find in technology many other more or less simple examples of cCSI. In mechanics: a bolt and a nut; a lock and its key. In railway: the train and the railroad; the locomotive and the wagon. In informatics: the network interface between two computers. In electronics: a connector and its plug or in general the interface between two devices. In communication: transmitter and receiver must share communication protocols. In language: the horizontal and vertical words in a crossword puzzle. I leave the reader the job of finding other examples of complex matching between systems.

The examples of communication and networking leads us to emphasize that an interface (as in general any complex system) may be composed of a material part (as the adapter card) and an abstract part (as the protocols). When information processing is involved these two aspects (hardware and software) are always present. Therefore in this case also the cCSI of the interface has to be considered from these two points of view.

The cCSI systems necessarily are intelligently designed. In fact to develop them a supervisor is necessary who knows in the same time the two systems and their interface. Only intelligence can be such supervisor because only intelligence is able to achieve knowledge sharing. The first premise of knowledge sharing is memory. Naturalistic and mechanic processes as the evolutionary ones just fail this premise since have no memory and thus are unable to manage correlated parallel jobs, where one must know and recall how A and B are made to create C that must interface both.

What about biology and cCSI? In molecular biology examples of matching systems are enzymes, which are catalytic proteins having a unique very specific 3-D shape that must fit their target substrate like a key fits in a lock. In morphological biology indeed there are spectacular examples of cCSI. One for all, consider the sexual reproductive organs in mammals. They must match at the every level of the biological stack: from bio-chemistry to tissues, from genetics to morphology. Last but not least also the behavioral level is involved if two individuals of different sex have to arrive to mating and generating off-spring. Hence also the behaviors belong to the cCSI of interfacing. About the matching between behavioral patterns and physical forms as sign of intelligent design see here .

It is unimaginable that reproduction and genitals arose by Darwinian evolution (that is for random mutations and natural selection). First, as a matter of principle: evolution needs reproduction; without reproduction no evolution. Therefore how can reproduction be the effect of evolution if evolution is an effect of reproduction? It’s an impossible causality inversion. Second, for a technical reason: how could the male organs arise independently from the female organs given the cCSI they share? In fact the Darwinian processes work in the single individual. They are blind and unaware of the processes running in other individuals. Random mutations that happen in a genome have nothing to do with the mutations in another one.

To sum up, biological cCSI cannot arise by evolution because the Darwinian independent processes would be as the above two NASA engineering teams that don’t speak together. In both cases the products, independently made, will never match. Darwinian evolution of the cCSI apparatuses is even more unbelievable than the above NASA story.

About cCSI and its refutation of a Darwinian explanation of sex and reproduction see also here .

Comments
Interesting to note the disparity in comments on this thread. Critics of ID noted and corrected the egregious misinformation in the original post, supplying detail and citations to further reading. IDists only carped and complained that niwrad's bizarre misapprehensions were questioned.Learned Hand
August 30, 2009
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lamarck, #5
Caman, All arguments are from incredulity.
So you think all arguments are logically fallacious? There is a difference between being incredulous and building an argument based on it.camanintx
August 30, 2009
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"Your shuttle and space station would have evolved to have matching docking modules, just as bumblebees, moths and hummingbirds and the flowers they pollinate have coevolved matching tongues and nectaries." Paul, lets for the moment say macro-evolution were true. Can you give me a good and reasonable response as to WHY this should be? You know what my mind conjures up when I think of the pure randomness and chaos coupled with entropy in the known universe? The surface of an orb. A hydrogen fueled nuclear furnace and a snowball.IRQ Conflict
August 30, 2009
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PaulBurnett, You need to develop the skill of discernment. That is to tell the difference between what has been observed versus what you think happened in the unobserved past. You claim "real science". But the reality is that is "historical science". A science non the less but it is what you believe to be true. But is it? Lets find out shall we? I'll use your definition of "fact". "Numerous examples of biological cCSI have arisen by coevolution." Then we can look at the actual EVIDENCE...... "Each party in a coevolutionary relationship exerts selective pressures on the other, thereby affecting each others' evolution." Here we see that "selective pressures" which is an observable fact not in dispute, with "affecting each others' evolution" Which is a statement of presupposition. What the author has done here is mix up facts with stories of how they see things working. It is a myth. Just like Santa Clause. Both myths have historical facts from which it was derived. But from observable evidences coupled with known historical facts we can safely conclude that Santa Clause is a myth, in it's modern form is nothing short of a story. And generally we frown upon adults who still believe it. "Species-level coevolution includes the evolution of a host species and its parasites, and examples of mutualism evolving through time." Notice here that this "real science" blurs the line between micro and macro evolution? And unless it's pointed out, they blend it rather seamlessly don't they? I've had to point out this flaw in evolutionary thinking before. As "real scientists" don't (want to) recognize the difference because they presuppose evolution to be fact why would they care to notice the difference right? This 'blurring' I have observed by proponents of evolution is intentional. It is quite literally the 'man behind the curtain'. It is something in which they refuse to discuss simply because they have no reasonable answer. Nor do you. When the adaptation of a species (finch beaks) is extrapolated to mean macro-evolution, it goes into the story books. On the shelf, right next to "The night before Christmas".IRQ Conflict
August 30, 2009
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Enezio E. De Almeida Filho Wrote: "Evolutionists have only ‘just so’ stories for how sex evolved. Period." Indeed. Star Trek is much more fun than a cold lifeless universe spanning unreachable distances. From what I hear fiction writers make a darn good living. Some at tax payer expense.IRQ Conflict
August 29, 2009
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You evidently have no novel measure of coupled complex specified information. You treat it as a quality of interactions of systems, not a quantity. I can't see that you're referring to anything but irreducible complexity. We've long heard that IC implies CSI, but CSI does not imply IC. So what is cCSI but the CSI of IC systems? Do we really need another fancy-sounding term in ID when we already have Behe's lucid treatment of irreducible complexity?Oatmeal Stout
August 29, 2009
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Thanks for the admission that Evolution is unfalsifiable Lenoxus. I won't comment on the rest.lamarck
August 29, 2009
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Evolutionists have only ‘just so’ stories for how sex evolved.
Conversely, designists have indisputable facts. Forget those silly distracting Darwinist guesses; science is all about certain truth, in this case that sex originated because a being wanted it to.Lenoxus
August 29, 2009
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Evolutionists have only 'just so' stories for how sex evolved. Period.Enezio E. De Almeida Filho
August 29, 2009
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spark300c @ 8
the problem with sex that it is costly and slow
Cost can be a problem but slow is good, Shirley.Seversky
August 29, 2009
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If I were a NASA engineer tasked with designing a docking module that would connect one ship to another of unknown design, I would start with what I knew or, at least, could reasonably assume. If the other ship were to be designed by other human beings to carry other human beings employing contemporary technology, that would limit my options somewhat. I might consider some sort of tube which could be extended from the side of my ship. On the end of the tube there might be a flexible collar which would conform itself to the outer hull of the other ship, however irregular its surface, and which would form an airtight seal once it was in contact. Astronauts could then move into the tube and bring tethers, communication cables and other links. In other words, the problem is difficult but not insoluble. The rest of the OP resolves to two issues, The first is that, while information theory is useful for modeling various aspects of evolution it could mislead the unwary into conflating the model with the thing being modeled. That we can describe the function of genes in terms of information does not mean that they contain something called information any more than decribing a cell in terms of machinery means that it is filled with little nano-power-plants and nano-machine-shops and nano-conveyor-belts. They are all an analogy, a selective model that actually leaves out a great deal of what happens in there. It highlights the similarities and simply ignores the differences. The second issue is that this is the familiar fallacy of the argument from incredulity. The fact that we are unable to imagine how a particular event or process might have occurred does not mean it could not have happened.Seversky
August 29, 2009
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the problem with sex that it is costly and slow. For sexual reproduction to have any advantage the mechanisms of genetic entropy most be functional at large populations which means that evolution of larger genomes is imposable. The mechanisms Entropy what keep information from be added in the long run. Also a way of braking genes and putting them together is need.spark300c
August 29, 2009
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I must be missing something. How do you go from asexual to sexual?lamarck
August 29, 2009
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Caman, All arguments are from incredulity.lamarck
August 29, 2009
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It is unimaginable that reproduction and genitals arose by Darwinian evolution (that is for random mutations and natural selection).
Another arguement from incredulity?camanintx
August 29, 2009
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"In the biological reign it happens that in an animal there are organs with a shape and a function perfectly suited to the shape and function of a complementary organ of another animal." Current theories of the origin of sex do not posit the individual evolution of sex organs — in fact, sex organs arrive very much after sexual reproduction, which, after all, ultimately occurs on a cellular level, with the interaction of specialized gametes. Though I know UDers will disagree with this, I don't think it's too implausible that those gametes were once much less specialized. "Instead sexual reproduction functions in general at the level of two individuals. Admit for absurdity that a Darwinian process had just produced the male individual of a certain species. At this point, a very long mutation-selection process should generate the female of the same species. But mutation and selection need reproduction to function. Unfortunately reproduction is yet missing!" The earliest forms of sexual reproduction did not necessarily involve "male" and "female" forms as we understand them today. The various hypotheses on the matter involve individual organic elements interacting in ways that make sense biologically — such as parasitism and bacterial conjugation — which are only seen to be "sex" after the fact. In other words, there's come sort of co-option going on (but I know that essentially no one here believes that co-option is plausible anyway). In any case, it's simply not true that the evolution of sexual reproduction would require sexual reproduction at every step — just reproduction of some sort. To this day, there are organisms which undergo both sexual and asexual reproduction (although it's more common for a species to be specialized).Lenoxus
August 29, 2009
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It is unimaginable that reproduction and genitals arose by Darwinian evolution (that is for random mutations and natural selection). First, as a matter of principle: evolution needs reproduction; without reproduction no evolution. Therefore how can reproduction be the effect of evolution if evolution is an effect of reproduction? It’s an impossible causality inversion. Second, for a technical reason: how could the male organs arise independently from the female organs given the cCSI they share? In fact the Darwinian processes work in the single individual. They are blind and unaware of the processes running in other individuals. Random mutations that happen in a genome have nothing to do with the mutations in another one.
Please tell us that this is a joke. This reflects so badly on the IDists' understanding of biology that it must be a parody.Arthur Hunt
August 29, 2009
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In the world of actual science, the topic of "coupled complex specified information" is covered under the heading of "coevolution." Your shuttle and space station would have evolved to have matching docking modules, just as bumblebees, moths and hummingbirds and the flowers they pollinate have coevolved matching tongues and nectaries. Numerous examples of biological cCSI have arisen by coevolution. "Each party in a coevolutionary relationship exerts selective pressures on the other, thereby affecting each others' evolution." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoevolutionPaulBurnett
August 29, 2009
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