Nick Matzke is the famous former employee of the National Center for Selling Evolution (NCSE). For many years, he has been on the frontlines on the war on ID. His finest hour was at the Dover Trial where he provided a lot of technical support to the ACLU lawyers.
Matzke’s attacks on ID are fundamentally based on misrepresentation, strawman arguments, equivocation, distortions, etc. Well, it seems his way of doing business has finally caught up with him. There is poetic justice in his public humiliation at the hands of fellow Darwinists. 🙂
[Matzke is] a nasty piece of work
…
Matzke has apparently made stuff upJerry Coyne
Another Tom Johnson
Coyne refers to the words of Matzke and friends as “meanness, invective, and even fabrication or gross exaggeration of incidents”.
Also from Jerry Coyne’s blog, someone posting under the name “Richard Dawkins” had this to say about Nick Matzke:
Matzke is a liar.
Richard Dawkins
HT: Mike Gene
PS
By the way, I salute Nick for sticking up for the dignity of religious folks. He ain’t all bad, imho.
The amusing thing about Coyne’s blog is Coyne seems to argue that GNUS behave in a civil manner.
Err, if Jerry’s definition of “civil” is PZ Myers and Abbie Smith, I suppose all GNU atheists are civil!
PZ Myer and Abbie Smith weigh in:
Nazi’s Everywhere
and Abbie Smith
Dawkins Speaks 3693120
Thus Saith Dawkins
See Nick, what happens to you when you dare to question the Pope of Darwinism?
Of course, Dawkins’ “officially” holds (that is, publicly asserts and personally disbelieves his own assertion) that liars are not morally responsible for their lies … logically, his assertion reduces to “There are no such things as lies.”
So, even if that really was Dawkins assertion that Matzke is a liar, the assertion is meaningless from that source; for the source itself is fundamentally dishonest.
Now Nick is getting it from both sides.
Mayb one of the Gnus will step in and prevent him from getting his PhD… 😎
You don’t seriously believe the “Richard Dawkins” on Coyne’s blog is the real Dawkins, do youse? As if he cares about this Matzke brouhaha.
Is this a lie about what the letters NCSE stand for?
IMO, poetic justice would be his conversion to Christ.
Ilion, great point. Whence all this manufactured moral outrage?
Among GNU atheists only Nick Matzke is a liar???
First, this post was file under humor.
That said, Coyne went so far as to contact Dawkins on the matter and then post Dawkins response. So Dawkins is taking the matter seriously enough to respond to Coyne. There has at least been correspondence between Coyne and Dawkins on the matter.
Also Jerry Coyne and PZ Myers are taking the matter seriously enough to post on the topic. PZ Myers and Jerry Coyne are personal friends of Dawkins and they are letting “Richard’s” posts go through.
Whether the commenter is really Richard himself is a good question. But why would PZ and Jerry let a sock speak on behalf of the real Richard? So it has a chance of being authentic.
But I share the view this seems a bit petty of Dawkins if that is indeed Dawkins.
Just to add in a side example regarding the “Is this really Richard Dawkins? Wouldn’t this be beneath him?” schtick…
Remember that Scott Adams (a pretty darn successful guy by any measure) recently got outed with flat-out comments-section sockpuppetry. And part of Dawkins’ daily routine does involve running his website, and now and then descending into the comments section there as well.
So it’s not like this is unthinkable, especially given that Coyne does seem to police his blog rather sternly.
Nick,
In case you’re reading, Mike Gene has some kind words to help you through your ordeal:
Telic Thoughts Comment 267353
Oh, don’t misunderstand me … I believe/know that Mr Matzke is intellectually dishonest, for he willingly chooses to misrepresent the nature of both truth and reason — that is, I know that he is *worse* than a liar — I’m just vastly amused as self-proclaimed atheists getting worked up about whatever “lies” they’re currently worked up over.
“IMO, poetic justice would be his conversion to Christ.”
That would be where Justice and Mercy intersect.
So, these people are calling themselves “Gnu Atheists”? Here I thought that the “gnu” was added by non-atheists laughing and the supposed “new” of the so-called New Atheists.
So, what do *they* mean by the “Gnu”?
@ilion
Let me see if I can put this together…
1.In the GNU’s view they are the highest point Darwinian Evolution has thus far reached.
2.The only “moral code” that matters to a Darwinian worldview is one where evil is defined as that which is detrimental to the success of a species.
3.Matzke’s lies were directed to the highest evolutionary form alive.
4.That makes him guilty of a sin . . .
no?
🙂
Let me see if I have this right —
1) Richard Dawkins has repeatedly asserted that the religious upbringing of children is morally worse than the sexual abuse of children;
2) Richard Dawkins has repeatedly asserted that religious belief (by which he almost always means Christianity) is the cause of most of the serious problems in the world, past and present;
3) Richard Dawkins has repeatedly asserted that religious belief justifies mass-murder – while conveniently eliding the industrial-scale mass-murders of atheism in the 19th and (especially) 20th centuries as not really atheism nor due to atheism;
4) Richard Dawkins has repeatedly asserted that ‘Science!’ shows us that there is no such thing as moral responsibility — while also publicly admitting that he doesn’t for an instant believe what he just asserted;
X) And these silly fools are hyperventilating because Nick Matzke was maneuvered into stating the meaning of what Dawkins says, even if Dawkins has not explicitly equated “religion” with Nazism.
Now, I’m not sure what “playing the Nazi card against religion” entails, but it *does* seem to me that whatever it means, these foolish persons, including Dawkins, are misrepresenting Matzke. The OP quotes Matzke as writing “ Well, I have seen Richard Dawkins address large general audiences and quite deliberately, but ridiculously, play the Nazi card against religion” … which, somehow, gets turned into “Matzke said that Dawkins equates religious people (i.e. Christians) with Nazis.”
Ah, well. What else does one expect of fools but foolish behavior?
@illion
It’s beautiful to realize, as a Christian, that YHWH gave me, a mere musician/graphic designer, enough common sense to easily smell the stinky bull-droppings left by these so-called academic elites. He gave it to us all. It’s one of His most glorious gifts.
I state this as one who took a long trip through the house of horrors known as Post-Modernism.
MedsResx @16,
Sure, I get that. I’m just mystified about this “Gnu” business.
Are these silly people trying to imply that the so-called “New Atheism” is somehow “open source” … which would seem to indicate that there is no single criterion by which any claim advanced as being a part of, or an entailment of, the “New Atheism” may be judged either to be or not to be. And, that seems just another way of admitting that the “New Atheism” is altogether lacking in content.
Ilion @19
It would sure seem that way.
But remember these people are generally completely lost outside of their extremely narrow fields of focus. So I’m sure most of the “founders” have no idea what GNU implies (they just thought it looked really cool, especially when the T-shirts come in!).
And the fan-boys are too nervous to tell them.
plus as we see in the OP: questioning is not without serious consequence and ex-communication.
MedsRex,
With so many Christians i’ve seen believing in homeopathy, psychic abilities, end-of-the-world predictions, the Bible Code, etc, it appears that He did not distribute the ability equally.
paragwinn
Oh He did…humans are just good at ignoring it for something “more-complex” or “more-interesting”.
and again this comes from personal experience.
But I did not mean to express that as if my good common sense was contingent on my Christianity.
I was just expressing thanks. 🙂