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Darwinian philosopher Michael Ruse on Darwin’s rottweiler Richard Dawkins

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Here at Gary Gutting’s “Philosopher’s Stone,” New York Times:

G.G.: What do you think of Richard Dawkins’s argument that, in any case, God won’t do as an ultimate explanation of the universe? His point is that complexity requires explanation — the whole idea of evolution by natural selection is to explain the origin of complex life-forms from less complex life-forms. But a creator God — with enormous knowledge and power — would have to be at least as complex as the universe he creates. Such a creator would require explanation by something else and so couldn’t explain, for example, why there’s something rather than nothing.

M.R.: Like every first-year undergraduate in philosophy, Dawkins thinks he can put to rest the causal argument for God’s existence. If God caused the world, then what caused God? Of course the great philosophers, Anselm and Aquinas particularly, are way ahead of him here. They know that the only way to stop the regression is by making God something that needs no cause. He must be a necessary being. This means that God is not part of the regular causal chain but in some sense orthogonal to it. He is what keeps the whole business going, past, present and future, and is the explanation of why there is something rather than nothing. Also God is totally simple, and I don’t see why complexity should not arise out of this, just as it does in mathematics and science from very simple premises.

Traditionally, God’s necessity is not logical necessity but some kind of metaphysical necessity, or aseity. Unlike Hume, I don’t think this is a silly or incoherent idea, any more than I think mathematical Platonism is silly or incoherent. As it happens, I am not a mathematical Platonist, and I do have conceptual difficulties with the idea of metaphysical necessity. So in the end, I am not sure that the Christian God idea flies, but I want to extend to Christians the courtesy of arguing against what they actually believe, rather than begin and end with the polemical parody of what Dawkins calls “the God delusion.”

G.G.: Do you think that evolution lends support to the atheistic argument from evil: that it makes no sense to think that an all-good, all-powerful God would have used so wasteful and brutal a process as evolution to create living things?

I don’t want an argument that convinces me that the death of Anne Frank in Bergen-Belsen ultimately contributes to the greater good. If my eternal salvation depends on the death of this young woman, then forget it.

M.R.: Although in some philosophy of religion circles it is now thought that we can counter the argument from evil, I don’t think this is so. More than that, I don’t want it to be so. More

Some Darwinian atheists are mad at Ruse. Can’t think why.

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Comments
AB: If this is true, then there must be a designer(s), which then opens the question as to the origin of the designer. But whenever this is asked, the ID crowd says, with a rationale that defies all logic, claims that there is no need for an origin for the designer. Or claims that the question is beyond the scope of the ID theory.
Yes, that's a valid question. However, more broadly, it opens the question to the origin of everything. One must come to grips with the fact that something exists without an origin at all, even if it's the entire system. But one not need answer all questions of origins and question of the nature of Existence Itself in order to deal with proximate causes of things. Otherwise forensic scientists and archaeologists would never get anywhere. ID posits some intelligence is more likely to be the source of certain biological artifacts. Darwinists (i.e, those committed to the Blind Watchmaker thesis) think chance and necessity are suffient cause for these artifacts. You complain that ID proponents don't wish to, or cannot, "explain the original of the intelligence." But neither can Darwinists explain the origin of the chance and necessity, that is, spacetime, or (if the multiverse is true, the origin of the multiverse.) So are we to reject the Blind Watch maker thesis merely because it suffers the same limitation with respect to origin (ultimate or otherwise) of non-proximate causes? Of course not. And if you are consistent, neither will you reject ID on that basis. There may be good reasons to reject ID, but that is not one of them.Vishnu
July 12, 2014
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BA: "AB, your response reminded me of when I was in second grade and would say, “I know you are but what am I.” Grow up." Which is the strategy used by all creationists. I am just lowering myself to the ID level. Which I do feel shame for.Acartia_bogart
July 12, 2014
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AB, your response reminded me of when I was in second grade and would say, "I know you are but what am I." Grow up.Barry Arrington
July 12, 2014
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BA, I see your point. The propensity to link Darwin to Hitler, Stalin and Mao is a non-sequitur.Acartia_bogart
July 12, 2014
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AB:
Cantor: “Dawkins is no Newton. They don’t even belong in the same paragraph.” Yet the ID proponents have no problem putting Darwin in the same paragraph as Hitler, Stalin and Mao.
AB, look up "non sequitur" and ponder how it applies to yor comment.Barry Arrington
July 12, 2014
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Cantor: "Dawkins is no Newton. They don’t even belong in the same paragraph." Yet the ID proponents have no problem putting Darwin in the same paragraph as Hitler, Stalin and Mao.Acartia_bogart
July 12, 2014
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Dawkins is no Newton. They don't even belong in the same paragraph. .cantor
July 11, 2014
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Personally, I think that Dawkins is a rude and arrogant individual. But that doesn't mean that he is always wrong. Newton was also a poor excuse for a human being, let alone a christian, but his theories and discoveries are still being used today. Dawkin's point that the creator must be extremely complex is a valid assumption. One of the ID foundations is that for everything we see, there must be a cause. Some may be natural (e.g., natural selection) but the more complicated ones must be due to another cause, a directed cause. If this is true, then there must be a designer(s), which then opens the question as to the origin of the designer. But whenever this is asked, the ID crowd says, with a rationale that defies all logic, claims that there is no need for an origin for the designer. Or claims that the question is beyond the scope of the ID theory.Acartia_bogart
July 11, 2014
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Proof for God (Part II): Why Unconditioned Reality Must Be Absolutely Simple (1 of 2)- http://vimeo.com/100119696?utm_campaign=Speakers+Bureau+Videocast+09&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Speakers+Bureau+Videocast+09buffalo
July 10, 2014
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Reading this only serves to solidify my suspicions that the Darwinists have finally lost the plot. Incoherent contradictory nonsense, exactly what we've come to expect from people who reject the obvious.humbled
July 10, 2014
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Ruse:
If God is to do everything through unbroken law, and I can think of good theological reasons why this should be so, then pain and suffering are part of it all.
What are the theological reasons Ruse is referring to?JoeCoder
July 10, 2014
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From the article: "He {Dawkins} argues that the only way naturally you can get the design-like features of organisms — the hand and the eye — is through evolution by natural selection, brought on by the struggle. Other mechanisms just don’t work. So God is off the hook." Paging Karl Giberson. Paging Karl Giberson. In all seriousness, this very poor philosophy. How is God off the hook if he is the one that created the mechanism. The buck has to stop somewhere.HD
July 10, 2014
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Ruse makes no more sense than Dawkins. First he says "I want to extend to Christians the courtesy of arguing against what they actually believe...", then he turns around and says "If my eternal salvation depends on the death of this young woman...". So his parody is OK, but Dawkins' is not? .cantor
July 10, 2014
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