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We — yes, we — are the new barbarians, the new nazis.

We who dunit, we who enabled it, we who funded it, we who voted for it (and those who did not bother to vote or speak), we who did not stand up against it, we who tolerated it, we who looked the other way, we who allowed other interests to crowd out the critical issue of integrity in leadership, we who went along with a civilisation setting out on a bloody march of folly. We who occasionally said something but allowed this to drift off the agenda of issues . . . this is the new slave trade, no it is worse, it is direct mass killing of the helpless, in numbers that dwarf the slave trade.

From now on, I will entertain no one who tries to play the slavery-racism card who does not instantly pass the abortion holocaust test.

Every last one of us, me too, is guilty.

God, forgive us.

How can we ever find forgiveness for the bloodguilt that stains not only our hands but our hearts, minds and souls?

We are as the White Rose martyrs indicted Germany: guilty, guilty, guilty.

We should be deeply ashamed at high tech cannibalism in our midst.

Of, the new Dr Mengeles and their blood-guilt tainted research.

How can we hope to profit from the slaughter of the innocents?

This is worse than how can we sweeten our tea with the blood, sweat, toil and tears of the enslaved.

It is our want of shame that is the most deeply telling point of all.

Guilty, guilty, guilty.

Let us seek the grace of penitence and forgiveness in the face of the ghosts of the dead from the global abortion holocaust, easily the worst holocaust of all time.

Guilty, guilty, guilty.

Let us turn back before it is forever too late.

Thank God, someone has forced us to face what we are doing, and where it is heading.

Let us turn back before it is too late.

From our own KF

I would add that no longer will I treat someone who advocates the slaughter of innocents as merely misguided or mistaken. I will treat them as evil and name them as such.

Comments
KF, "So, let us restrain ourselves on tone but be unyielding on substance." Nicely put.EugeneS
August 25, 2015
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SA, Thank you very much for your kind words.EugeneS
August 25, 2015
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SLeBrun I'm pro-life, and I assume you are not. I'm not a Bible thumper. If you look through my limited posts on this board, you'll see that I have serious problems with the Bible. I'm mentioning my opinion of the Bible only because your first comment seems to be targeting Christians. I'm definitely not a fan of Arrington. I agree with him on the ID issue (which to me is more important than the abortion issue), but I think he's a bully and uses lawyer tactics to persuade without regard to the truth. I know I'm risking the "ban button", but this is such a black and white issue that I'm willing to risk it. You asked him some questions that were meant to make BA (or whoever responded) hem and haw, but you were answered with clear, definitive, unequivocal responses. You were asked questions with the same tone, and you complained about the tone and intent. I know and love some people who have had abortions. I don't think they are evil, unredeemable people, but the abortions were bad (I would say murder or at least negligent manslaughter) acts. If your initial comment was sincere, you should at least be willing to answer the questions that were asked. Just say "yes but", or "no and". Some people will disregard everything you say, but at least you would have a chance of making a point.dl
August 24, 2015
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The reason I chose to delay offering my opinion is because of your confrontational and bias attitude. You have an unpleasant and acrimonious belligerent style which makes me wonder why anyone would bother trying to have a civilised discussion with you. It’s your call and your blog. But I can’t see why I should bother taking much time trying to explain my view to someone who has already decided I’m wrong.
SLeBrun is now the victim. Admits no guilt for the mass butchery his worldview is responsible for.bb
August 24, 2015
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SLeBrun,
I’m guessing that if I answer yes then you will say I’m an evil person. If I say no then you will ask me what the difference is between that scenario and what you perceive has been happening with Planned Parenthood.
That's right! Because the reality is there is no difference between Planned Parenthood, those they supply, and Jeffrey Dahmer. It really is that clear cut. No amount of demagoguing over the suffering of property owners, oops.... (see slavery), women, makes any difference to the clear moral violation that abortion is.
So why no be honest and just ask me about Planned Parenthood since there’s no way I’m going to say that Dahmer should/could have avoided prison?
What you indicate is you know it is true that there is no difference, but you refuse to concede possibly because you have a seared conscience, or self-interest, a fear of peers, the guilt of pressuring an inconveniently and embarrassingly pregnant girlfriend to kill her child for your sake, if you're a male. That is all speculation on my part, but I don't think I'm far off. Your morality is so pliable that you can justify Soylent Green with some twisted rationalism. It sounds like "rational". It has the same root, but is the opposite. You're a smart person, but very foolish simultaneously. Romans 1 (NKJV - emphasis mine)
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
While you're living, it's never too late to repent, and ask God's grace. According to the Old Testament, God forgave King Manasseh, who made worship of Baal, and other Canaanite gods, the state religion. Child sacrifice was the result, but Manasseh repented in the end. So can you. 2 Kings 21 (emphasis mine):
... 6 Also he made his son pass through the fire[threw his son into the red hot arms of a bronze idol], practiced soothsaying, used witchcraft, and consulted spiritists and mediums. He did much evil in the sight of the Lord, to provoke Him to anger. [...]16 Moreover Manasseh shed very much innocent blood, till he had filled Jerusalem from one end to another, besides his sin by which he made Judah sin, in doing evil in the sight of the Lord.
bb
August 24, 2015
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SLeBrun,
The reason I chose to delay offering my opinion is because of your confrontational and bias attitude.
Not only are you a liar; you are not a very good one. I invite readers to look at my question in comment 2. Not only is it not "confrontational;" its tone and format were an exact mirror of SLeBrun's question at 1. You keep saying you are going away. Please do so. Barry Arrington
August 24, 2015
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SLeBrun
Nice to see your prejudice out in the open. At least I know where I stand. And why I won’t bother trying to have a discussion with you.
I don't think it's prejudice to simply state what materialism is. The strange thing for me is to see people who openly proclaim materialism, suddenly get upset when the amoral quality of materialism is mentioned. That's something you need to reconcile for yourself. You seem quite upset to see moral criticisms of materialism. But it's like an atheist getting upset because someone says that "atheism is Godless". You chose materialism for a reason. You have to accept what comes along with it.Silver Asiatic
August 24, 2015
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It’s not ‘materialists’ that should be outed, but ‘materialism’. It’s that mind-set that necessarily results in an acceptance of any manner of evil.
Nice to see your prejudice out in the open. At least I know where I stand. And why I won't bother trying to have a discussion with you.
Liar. You showed your colors from the start when you posed a challenge, which was met, and then skulked off like a coward when you were asked a simple question. We won’t miss you. If you agreed on point 4 you could have said so days ago. Instead, you refused. Telling.
I said I agreed on your four points in my last post. I guess you have reading comprehension issues. The reason I chose to delay offering my opinion is because of your confrontational and bias attitude. You have an unpleasant and acrimonious belligerent style which makes me wonder why anyone would bother trying to have a civilised discussion with you. It's your call and your blog. But I can't see why I should bother taking much time trying to explain my view to someone who has already decided I'm wrong.SLeBrun
August 24, 2015
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SleBrun
You could have built a bridge but you burned the supports before it even got started.
Liar. You showed your colors from the start when you posed a challenge, which was met, and then skulked off like a coward when you were asked a simple question. We won't miss you. If you agreed on point 4 you could have said so days ago. Instead, you refused. Telling.Barry Arrington
August 24, 2015
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SLeBrun It's not just a question of arriving at an arbitrary agreement on various things. That's like a random sort and then we happen to both like a certain color or favorite food. But it has to be a deeper recognition of the evil inherent in those 4 items. I think that's the basis of a real dialogue. Otherwise, it is as you made it seem ... everything is open for discussion. That's the basic materialist viewpoint. We just saw Zachriel equivocating on the value of human life itself. It's not 'materialists' that should be outed, but 'materialism'. It's that mind-set that necessarily results in an acceptance of any manner of evil.Silver Asiatic
August 24, 2015
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SLeBrun pops his head out of his hole and with his lying forked tongue hisses “Are you really interested in a dialogue?”
I actually agree with you about your four points. But you're such a . . . jerk I'm not going to bother pursuing it further. Have fun slapping each other on the back because you outed another materialist. One who might have been willing to stand with you in certain situations. You could have built a bridge but you burned the supports before it even got started. Well done.SLeBrun
August 24, 2015
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SLeBrun pops his head out of his hole and with his lying forked tongue hisses “Are you really interested in a dialogue?” The question cannot be answered in a vacuum. About some things there can be a good faith dialogue. About other things it is not possible to dialogue in good faith. Some things should be literally unthinkable. Sadly they are not. Here are some examples of things about which I am not open to dialogue: 1. The relative merits of genocide. 2. Whether the Holocaust was really so bad. 3. Whether the Jews “had it coming”? 4. Whether little boys and girls should be chopped into pieces and the pieces sold like meat. These things are not up for debate on this site. Nor should they be up for debate anywhere else. Indeed, raising any of these for debate as if there is something to debate is itself evil.Barry Arrington
August 24, 2015
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If you can’t clearly and concisely answer the following, you have a problem with honesty. Should Jeffrey Dahmer have avoided prison if he bought his “groceries” at Planned Parenthood It’s a yes/no question, and only one answer is moral.
I'm guessing that if I answer yes then you will say I'm an evil person. If I say no then you will ask me what the difference is between that scenario and what you perceive has been happening with Planned Parenthood. So why no be honest and just ask me about Planned Parenthood since there's no way I'm going to say that Dahmer should/could have avoided prison? Or are you, like many others on this post, just trying to segregate posters into good and bad categories? Are you really wanting to talk about the issues or to just promote your opinion? It sounds like you're set in your opinion and aren't really open to a real conversation. But I'm happy to be proved incorrect.So I will refrain from deciding even though you framed the question in a very inflammatory fashion. You also pretend to 'know' what Dahmer's real 'turn on' and motivations were. Which I think is a bit scary and assumptive. So, again, are you just playing the 'shock' question gambit in an attempt to back your 'opponent' into a corner? Are you really interested in a dialogue?SLeBrun
August 24, 2015
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KF, I have a suspicion that I might have left some of your questions unanswered a while ago. Please tell me if that is the case. Thanks.EugeneS
August 24, 2015
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AS, Eugen & EugenS: Thanks for a reminder. Let us pray and work, that a critical mass will wake up from the bewitchment of folly in time that we can turn our civilisation back before the cliff's edge disintegrates underfoot. God, is gracious. And, power to repent is a gift of that grace. KF PS: I think some people trying to suggest how dare you speak to us in strong terms need to understand what is on the table and what enabling such implies. So, let us restrain ourselves on tone but be unyielding on substance.kairosfocus
August 24, 2015
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bb, at this stage, it is plain that SL has been playing the threadjacking troll aiming to pull us away from focus on what to do in the face of -- ongoing -- the worst holocaust in history; which indicts our whole civilisation. It is time to put first things first and (having dealt with them) set distractions to one side. While we are at it we too need to be careful not to become overly angered or reckless and uncivil. KFkairosfocus
August 24, 2015
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The fact that any of you condone comments like this is pretty telling don’t you think?
If you can’t clearly and concisely answer the following, you have a problem with honesty. Should Jeffrey Dahmer have avoided prison if he bought his “groceries” at Planned Parenthood
SLeBrun, It's a yes/no question, and only one answer is moral.bb
August 24, 2015
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Harry, Thanks. I have always understood abortion to be awful, the taking of the life of an unborn child. I have always understood that there has been an institutional coup that has entrenched abortionism and which we need to object to. I have always understood how corrupting bloodguilt is in politics, the media and thought, as there is just no compensation we can make for the willful taking of innocent life. (I come from a country where violence became entangled with politics, leading to a low scale civil war including murder of one of my unofficial aunts in a context of reckless political agitation.) But, I had thought, this is an issue that while we can object to, the balance of institutional power was such that apart from objection and addressing the wider breakdown of our civilisation there was little to do. The series of videos on the Dr Mengele culture among abortionists got my attention bigtime and changed my mind. The time for reckoning on which battles to fight, which to simply hold on is over. The Dr Mengele, high tech cannibalism of tainted medical research feeding off innocent blood is a decisive break-point, a krisis --> place, act, situation of judgement. My FIRST political position, acquired at mother's knee was anti-fascism. (Which should help you understand just how outrageous is the attempt to push on Bible-believing Christians tags such as "Christofascist" is.) And, I know just what that monster Dr Mengele represents. Dark, demonic medicine and science dressed up in the false lab coats of vicious curiosity. These new Dr Mengeles -- yes, betrayers of the Hippocratic Oath that is what you are and your own behaviour and words on camera prove it beyond any doubt . . . so don't even try to pretend to wounded innocence and forget the shoot at the messenger game -- demonstrate that we are dealing with implacable, demonically motivated, nihilistic enemies of humanity. Their agenda has to be decisively exposed, utterly discredited, broken, and then shattered into shards so small and scattered that this juggernaut cannot be reconstructed. And, along with several other nihilistic agendas, this is a parallel, front burner priority for our programme of action. Our civilisation is on a march of demonic, suicidal folly and evil headed straight over the cliff and we need to wake up and stop then turn back now, before the ground gives way underfoot and we fall into the yawning abyss. Let us seek that grace that enables us to repent and seek reformation, we are at the brink of the Rom 1 world abyss:
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,[g] in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. 24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. 28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Though they know God's righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.
KFkairosfocus
August 24, 2015
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EugeneS True. It has a very serious and damaging effect on men also. Directly, in cases where they are involved, and indirectly from the women in their lives they love and care for. Society itself suffers from 'the culture of death' and abortion causes a lot of guilt and harm, even among people who haven't been involved in it at all. The simple demographic nightmare you mention is one consequence. It's hopeful that as the Christian faith returns (however slowly) to Russia, the situation is improving there.Silver Asiatic
August 24, 2015
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Kairos your thoughtful comments may shake somebody and wake them up but will not help to those who are dead inside.Eugen
August 24, 2015
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I think many Orthodox Christian priests can testify to the fact that abortion is a grievous sin that has tremendously negative consequences to the woman's existence, to all aspects of it starting from physical health to mental and finally to spiritual well being. There are no exceptions. Even if physical health is not visibly immediately affected, it will show up sooner or later. A woman is designed to be a mother. That is a given. In Russia this problem is of the scale of catastrophe really. Only very recently did the country overcome what demographers had labeled as the 'Russian cross': the intersection of birth and mortality rates that happened under Yeltsin (obviously with birth rate plummeting and mortality rate shooting up as a result of this horrible man's 'reforms'). We are suffering what is due: Soviet Russia was the first country in the world to legalize abortion.EugeneS
August 24, 2015
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kairosfocus, I re-read my post. Let me clarify that if the horror of the situation is what "brought you to those conclusions" then I certainly don't want those horrors to be "endlessly repeated." ;o) What I meant is that whatever train of thought brought you to those conclusions needs to be proposed to others. You probably realized that. ;o) God bless you.harry
August 24, 2015
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kairosfocus
This is kairos, and maybe even krisis. It is time for decision and sound action at a moment of truth. I suggest to you that when one faces a horror of this magnitude, involving mass bloodguilt, it is not the exposed holocaust that is in question, but us. I for one am done with this is a backburner issue, I was wrong to ever let it slip away from the forefront of my thinking on why we are in an age of a new barbarism. The right to life is the first, foremost right. I return this to its due place, up front centre
Amen. Whatever brought you to those conclusions needs to be endlessly repeated for the sake of others. God bless you, kairosfocus!harry
August 24, 2015
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SL: I see, sadly but predictably, you studiously avoid addressing the substance and double down on attempted side tracking. Here, while going on to rhetorically project blame and then pretending to be the vilified, innocent victim. The only problem with that is, scroll up to comment no 1 and see that you threw the first punch (so have no right to claim, he hit back first), hoping to poison the well, hoping to poison, cloud, polarise the atmosphere, hoping to distract. (Where, you have never come back and acknowledged the force of responses, nor have you set the atrocity cases you picked from a thousand years past in reasonable context, say cf 9 above and the onward linked.) Precisely the tactics of those trying to rhetorically defend the indefensible. This, in the face of what is plainly the worst -- and ongoing -- holocaust of all time, dwarfing everything that has hitherto shocked the world. But then, I recall how, while the Communist mass murders were still in progress (especially the killing fields of Cambodia) there was a distinct lack of headlines and a refusal to connect dots. Okie, let me repeat from above: ___________ >>Pardon, but your tactics of distractive red herring, led away to a strawman caricature soaked in ad hominems set alight to distract attention, cloud, confuse, poison and polarise the atmosphere are all too drearily familiar. There is an issue of the largest holocaust in history ongoing as we speak on the table. Here, further manifest in a pattern of paid transfers of parts of the victims to biomedical establishments for the carrying out of alleged medical research. P Z Myers has made his position explicit, he sees only meat there and it is full steam ahead. In short, his amorality, a concommitant of a priori evolutionary materialism, is on full public display. We must at least thank him for being plain. Any person of good will and common decency, should wake up and do serious rethinking regarding what is on the table. Unborn human beings, yes earlier in development and far more innocent than we are, have been slaughtered by the hundreds of millions around the world with the complicity of the state, media and public — slaughtered in the main as they are inconvenient or undesired, under false colours of “rights” and so the whole discourse of rights, freedoms, responsibilities in public, law and courts has been increasingly warped . . . undermining the civil peace of justice. Where, the industry is now so benumbed that parts are being passed to carry out tainted research, which has now been exposed. Evasions, turnabout rhetorical gambits, attempts to smear and shoot at the messenger etc simply tell us that we are facing enabling behaviour. All I will say is that Medicine spent nearly a half century cleansing the track record of tainted research in order to restore its ethical credibility. This is kairos, and maybe even krisis. It is time for decision and sound action at a moment of truth. I suggest to you that when one faces a horror of this magnitude, involving mass bloodguilt, it is not the exposed holocaust that is in question, but us. I for one am done with this is a backburner issue, I was wrong to ever let it slip away from the forefront of my thinking on why we are in an age of a new barbarism. The right to life is the first, foremost right. I return this to its due place, up front centre.>> _______________ It is time to wake up. KFkairosfocus
August 24, 2015
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SLeBrun, Society doesn't accept killing another human being, one who is a completely innocent victim, as being a legitimate solution to one's personal problems, no matter how tragic one's circumstances are -- except in the case of an unwanted pregnancy. Many, many women have found themselves in that situation who didn't resort to abortion. Some received love and support from family and friends, others didn't. Some had their baby and put it up for adoption and went on with life. Others kept their child, raised the boy or girl and were thrilled with their decision to keep their child. In any event, these women did not kill an innocent human being as a solution to their problem. What makes us so sure the women who obtained the "services" of "back-street" abortionists couldn't have done the same thing? That they were "pretty desperate and suffering" and saw no other option means that society in general and Christians in particular needed to be more responsive and compassionate to those in tragic situations. That is the appropriate response to the problem. Just telling them they can always "legally" kill their own child is the height of selfish cruelty. What about the "hard cases"? -- Life of the mother: Any women who is told by their doctor they must get an abortion to save their life needs to find another doctor who is up to speed with the advances of modern medicine. It is extremely rare that that situation really exists and if it does, an ethical physician will do all he can to save both mother and child. If it is only possible to save the mother, he does that, but doesn't deliberately kill the child in the process. -- Rape: Killing the child does not "un-rape" the woman. It only adds the trauma of the murder of an innocent child to the trauma of the rape. Why should children get the death penalty for the crimes of their fathers? -- Incest: "Legal" abortion increases instances of incest. Abortionists aren't known for asking who the father is when a minor is brought in pregnant. That wouldn't be good for business. Dad can repeatedly impregnate his daughter and repeatedly bring her in for an abortion without being reported. Incest is indeed terrible. "Legal" abortion promotes it. Sometimes there just can't be exceptions. What exceptions would be acceptable for slavery? There are no legitimate exceptions for slavery. It is the same with killing innocent human beings to solve our personal problems. That simply cannot be allowed and there can be no exceptions. What separates civilization from savage barbarism is that the state prohibits the powerful from trampling upon those who are less powerful. When the Supreme Court abruptly withdrew the protection of law from the child in womb, a protection that had been afforded to them for over a hundred years in America by state laws put on the books by the elected representatives of the people, it struck down not only the democratic process, but civilization as well. It is meaningful that the laws protecting the life of the child in the womb were put on the books in the era in which slavery was brought to an end. America had finally established in law what its Declaration of Independence proclaimed: that all humanity was created with equal rights and dignity, and that the very purpose of the state was to protect those rights. The Roe vs. Wade decision obliterated that progress.harry
August 24, 2015
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So you make up lies about why you don’t admit the truth. You are an evil little viper SLeBrun; you have spewed your venom. Feel free to crawl back into your hole.
Tried, convected, sentenced.
You found a way to avoid taking a stand with a lame, for me, unbelievable, excuse. I judged the person I was shown. If you wish me to judge you differently, show me a better person next time.
But you already made a judgement didn't you? Now I have to work to change it?
Pardon, but your tactics of distractive red herring, led away to a strawman caricature soaked in ad hominems set alight to distract attention, cloud, confuse, poison and polarise the atmosphere are all too drearily familiar.
Because you think I might not agree with you?
Then he should have no problem cooking it and eating it. Unless he’s just a pathetic liar.
You are just sick. But I see no one telling you off. Is that because you agree with Barry over his segregation issue?
I was thinking that. I was wondering if P Z Myers would baulk at throwing baby parts on a barbecue – lets say having killed it in the process of dismembering it or stabbing it or whatever.
The fact that any of you condone comments like this is pretty telling don't you think?
If you can’t clearly and concisely answer the following, you have a problem with honesty. Should Jeffrey Dahmer have avoided prison if he bought his “groceries” at Planned Parenthood?
Again, sick, sick, sick. I tell you what I think. I think abortions should be pretty exceptional. I think they should be a last option. I think people should be a lot more careful about who they sleep with and should practice safe sex and birth control until they're sure they want children. I think lots of women who decide to get abortions are pretty desperate and suffering. There have been lots of cases of Irish women going to back-street abortionists or using coat hangers because they are so desperate. Thereby putting their own lives at risk. Many of them have abusive husbands or boyfriends. Ireland is a Catholic country and divorce wasn't even an option 'til recently. I hope someday there are NO abortions. I don't know what else to do for the women who will risk killing themselves to get rid of a pregnancy. But the social workers who deal with them are pretty clear what they think. I'm not there, at the coal-face, counselling or performing any procedures. I don't know what else can be done . . . It's a bad situation all around. There is no good solution. And I think reducing the whole problem down to a single, divisive point isn't helping. As a society we have to deal with this, we have to compromise and come to a consensus. We can't just condemn people who disagree with us. But from what I've read here you folks don't see it that way. And you'll vilify any and all who see it differently.SLeBrun
August 23, 2015
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SLeBrun, If you can't clearly and concisely answer the following, you have a problem with honesty. Should Jeffrey Dahmer have avoided prison if he bought his "groceries" at Planned Parenthood?bb
August 23, 2015
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I was thinking that. I was wondering if P Z Myers would baulk at throwing baby parts on a barbecue - lets say having killed it in the process of dismembering it or stabbing it or whatever.Axel
August 23, 2015
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P Z Myers has made his position explicit, he sees only meat there and it is full steam ahead.
Then he should have no problem cooking it and eating it. Unless he's just a pathetic liar.Mung
August 23, 2015
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SL: Pardon, but your tactics of distractive red herring, led away to a strawman caricature soaked in ad hominems set alight to distract attention, cloud, confuse, poison and polarise the atmosphere are all too drearily familiar. There is an issue of the largest holocaust in history ongoing as we speak on the table. Here, further manifest in a pattern of paid transfers of parts of the victims to biomedical establishments for the carrying out of alleged medical research. P Z Myers has made his position explicit, he sees only meat there and it is full steam ahead. In short, his amorality, a concommitant of a priori evolutionary materialism, is on full public display. We must at least thank him for being plain. Any person of good will and common decency, should wake up and do serious rethinking regarding what is on the table. Unborn human beings, yes earlier in development and far more innocent than we are, have been slaughtered by the hundreds of millions around the world with the complicity of the state, media and public -- slaughtered in the main as they are inconvenient or undesired, under false colours of "rights" and so the whole discourse of rights, freedoms, responsibilities in public, law and courts has been increasingly warped . . . undermining the civil peace of justice. Where, the industry is now so benumbed that parts are being passed to carry out tainted research, which has now been exposed. Evasions, turnabout rhetorical gambits, attempts to smear and shoot at the messenger etc simply tell us that we are facing enabling behaviour. All I will say is that Medicine spent nearly a half century cleansing the track record of tainted research in order to restore its ethical credibility. This is kairos, and maybe even krisis. It is time for decision and sound action at a moment of truth. I suggest to you that when one faces a horror of this magnitude, involving mass bloodguilt, it is not the exposed holocaust that is in question, but us. I for one am done with this is a backburner issue, I was wrong to ever let it slip away from the forefront of my thinking on why we are in an age of a new barbarism. The right to life is the first, foremost right. I return this to its due place, up front centre. KFkairosfocus
August 23, 2015
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