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Debating Darwin and Design: Science or Creationism? (2)

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Some readers here may be aware of an online debate I’m taking part in with a neo-Darwinist (and friend), Francis Smallwood. Francis blogs at Musings of a Scientific Nature. We are currently discussing the issue of whether intelligent design is just a recent strain of creationism, and whether it is a legitimate scientific theory. What follows is our second round of responses. You can read Francis’ response by following the link at the bottom of this post. Feel free to criticise what I have written, and interact with Francis on his blog. Enjoy!

‘Is Intelligent Design science or ‘creationism in a cheap tuxedo?’

Joshua Gidney-2nd response

In my opening remarks I attempted to argue that intelligent design is in no way synonymous with biblical young earth creationism. I also make the stronger claim that scientifically it isn’t even a form of creationism in any theistic sense. In his first response Francis ceded the former point but argues against the latter. He writes that ‘equation of ID with biblical creationism…is illegitimate,…’1 and recognises that within the ID camp there is a wide range of views, pointing out that leading theorist Michael Behe emphatically rejects young earth creationism and is convinced by the evidence for common descent. Although both ID theorists, Francis compares Behe’s view with Paul Nelson’s view to illustrate the different positions within the ID tent. Nelson is quite a prominent ID theorist but is significantly more critical of Darwinian theory, however, it is incorrect to say that Nelson’s view is base ‘history denial’ and doesn’t in fact hold explicitly to a young earth view. Responding to this accusation in a recent interview Nelson says ‘…I don’t believe in a six thousand year old or ten thousand year old earth; I actually don’t know how old the earth is. Professionally, in my work with my discovery colleagues, I take their date: 4.6 billion, but in my own thinking I don’t restrict myself to the assumptions being made by historical geology and cosmology.’2

Francis singles out Michael Behe, William Dembski, and Phillip Johnson as being the three fathers of ID. The temptation he feels to call them ‘stooges’ reveals his low opinion of them and their work and I feel that it is an unwarranted denigration. This discussion will hopefully tell us whether or not they are indeed stooges. The three academics mentioned are indeed among the most prominent ID defenders but this by no means exhausts the long and growing list of significant contributors to the ID argument. I would add that Philosopher of science Stephen C. Meyer should be counted as being one of the ‘fathers’ of ID due to his ground breaking argument for design from the origin of biological information in various articles and his book Signature In The Cell: DNA and the Evidence For Intelligent Design.

In his response Francis points out that Behe, amongst the three mentioned is the only qualified biological scientist. This is true but so what?  Johnson is a retired UC Berkeley lawyer and is often credited as the founder of the ID movement which is in many ways true. He was instrumental in providing ID theorists with a public voice and creating ground for the movement to develop. Johnson put forward ‘The Wedge Strategy’ and described his aim thus ‘My colleges and I want to separate the real science from the materialist philosophy.’3 He greatly helped getting  the ID movement going but did not invent ID as a theory and has not been responsible for the detailed scientific arguments because that is not in his area of expertise. Dembski’s expertise are entirely appropriate for the ideas that he has been advancing in support of design. As a highly qualified mathematician and philosopher, he has developed a theoretical framework for ID, formalising a design detection criteria to assess whether something is designed or not. As a Bio-chemist Michael Behe has provided much of the meat on an empirical level within his own field along with many other appropriately qualified scientists such as biologists Douglas Axe4, Jonathan Wells5, Scott Minich6, Dean Kenyon7, and Philosopher of Science Stephen C. Meyer8.

Francis asks the question ‘…how is it that ID just simply can’t seem to rid itself of creationist associations?’9 This is an easy question to address because ID’s creationist associations only exist in the mind of its critics and not in reality. It is interesting to note that the two major young earth creationist organisations in America, Answers in Genesis and The Institute for Creation Research, both openly frown upon ID. Philosopher Peter S. Williams urges that ‘perhaps reporters in the media who refuse to take ID theorists at their word when they assert that ID is not creationism will take creationists…at their word when they make the same point!’10 ID’s alleged creationist associations exist largely because the media often disseminate often absurd misunderstandings and misrepresentations of what ID theorists are saying and these myths are often perpetuated by critics within the scientific community who also misunderstand the theory and are too stuck in their Darwinian box.  I think the main reason it is so difficult for ID to jettison its creationist associations is that Neo-Darwinism for many is very much an ideology and criticism of it is often unwelcome within academia. Given this fact it is clear that the most effective rhetorical tactic to use is to associate ID with right-wing Christian fundamentalists in an attempt to superficially disarm ID theorist’s arguments and make it easy for everyone else to view them as ‘a well-organised and well-financed group of nutters’.11

Although I don’t see a legitimate connection between evolution and atheism it is tempting to turn the original question around and ask: How is it that evolution just simply can’t seem to get rid of its atheistic associations? It is true to say that more often than not evolution is viewed to be in direct opposition to belief in creator but just because it can’t seem to get rid of a certain philosophical view doesn’t discredit the theory or imply that it is a form of atheism.

Bringing up the infamous Dover Trial, Francis cites a brief exchange between Behe and Eric Rothschild. He points out that the most Rothschild got out of Behe in terms of an explanation was that an intelligence was involved in the process but this is not surprising because that is all the theory claims. Behe was right to hesitate because the word ‘cause’ is a very broad term as he mentions. William Dembski offers a clarification on this point: ‘intelligent design is…not the study of intelligent causes per se but of informational pathways induced by intelligent causes. As a result intelligent design presupposes neither a creator nor miracles. . . it detects intelligence without speculating about the nature of the intelligence. .. ’12 Along with Kenneth Miller, Francis may wish to put the word ‘creator’ into ID theorist’s mouths but to do so would be to immediately step outside of science. Many theorists unashamedly admit that they believe the most plausible metaphysical interpretation of ID to be a theistic one but the key point is that this interpretation is not part of the theory itself. The implications of ID, whatever they are, do not disqualify the theory as being unscientific just as the Big Bang model was not labelled as being unscientific because many scientists thought it had strong theistic implications.

It is claimed that ‘Proponents of ID are desperate to distance themselves from creationism-if they don’t they can’t get into the school science class…’13 but this is false. Proponents of ID may well be desperate to get as far away from creationism as possible but as I have already argued, it is because it has nothing to do with creationism. It is the Darwinists who seem desperate to keep creationism closer to ID to damage its credibility. The main proponents of the theory do not want it in the school science class. This is another myth often perpetuated by critics. In his review of the BBC’s Horizon: The War on Science programme on ID, Peter S. Williams points out that ‘the Discovery Institute (which is a secular think tank which opposes efforts to mandate teaching creationism or religion in American schools) does not want ID taught in schools, preferring instead that students should simply be given access to scientific evidence both for and against Darwin’s theory as it appears in the peer-reviewed scientific literature…’14

Francis attaches unwarranted significance to the Dover trial in deciding ID’s validity. It may have been a ‘roaring triumph for evolution in its grand battle with creationism’15, but not Neo-Darwinism’s grand battle with ID. The members of the school board were indeed creationists but they tried to use ID ‘as the next best thing to the outlawed advocacy of “creation science”…’16 Unfortunately Judge Jones ended up making highly mistaken decisions with regard to ID. In his review of the Court’s ruling on the scientific status of ID, Michael Behe concludes:

‘The Court’s reasoning…is premised on: a cramped view of science; the conflation of intelligent design with creationism; an incapacity to distinguish the implications of a theory from the theory itself; a failure to differentiate evolution from Darwinism; and strawman arguments against ID. The Court has accepted the most tendentious and shop-worn excuses for Darwinism with great charity and impatiently dismissed evidence-based arguments for design. All of that is regrettable, but in the end does not impact the realities of biology, with are not amenable to adjudication.’17

Space has not permitted me to address every point in Francis’ first response but will hope to examine any significant criticism Francis raised that I did not address, in my next response.

References

  1. Francis Smallwood. Debating Darwin and Design: Science or Creationism? (1): Francis Smallwood-First response. http://musingsofscience.wordpress.com/2011/09/20/debating-darwin-and-design-science-or-creationism-1/
  2. Paul Nelson. David Berlinski, Claire Berlinski. Movie recording 28. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8kPOri3quQ&feature=related
  3. Phillip E. Johnson, The Firing Line Creation-Evolution Debate (1997).
  4. Douglas Axe. Biologic Institute. http://biologicinstitute.org/people/
  5. Jonathan Wells. http://www.jonathanwells.org/
  6. Scott Minnich. http://www.iscid.org/scott-minnich.php
  7. Dean Kenyon. http://www.veritas-ucsb.org/video/BIOLOGY/KENYON/Kenyon.html
  8. Stephen C. Meyer. http://www.stephencmeyer.org/biography.ph
  9. Francis Smallwood. Debating Darwin and Design: Science or Creationism? (1): Francis Smallwood-First response. op cit.
  10. Peter S. Williams. ‘Evolution vs. Intelligent Design’ Radio Debate. http://www.arn.org/docs/williams/pw_radiodebate.htm
  11. Mary Wakefield. The Mystery of the Missing Links. http://www.arn.org/docs2/news/missinglinkmystery102803.htm
  12. William A. Dembski. Mere Creation. (Downers Grove: IVP. 1996). p.17.
  13. Francis Smallwood. Debating Darwin and Design: Science or Creationism? (1): Francis Smallwood-First response. op cit.
  14. Peter S. Williams. The War on Science: How Horizon Got Intelligent Design Wrong. http://www.arn.org/docs/williams/pw_horizonreview.htm
  15. Francis Smallwood. Debating Darwin and Design: Science or Creationism? (1): Francis Smallwood-First response. op cit.
  16. Peter S. Williams. The War on Science: How Horizon Got Intelligent Design Wrong. op cit.
  17. Michael J. Behe. Whether Intelligent Design is Science: A Response to the Opinion of the Court in Kitzmiller vs. Dover Area School District. http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/filesDB-download.php?command=download&id=697

 

Francis has responded to me here.

Comments
Very well thought through, if I may say so, Stephen and Joe. Alas, the palpable concordance of a seemingly infinite intelligence and theism is just too terrifying for our paranoid atheist friends to countenance. And now the event-horizon attested by the Holy Shroud of Turin has rendered them completely loopy. Which is not to say that I don't admire your decency, Joshua, or the way in which this thread has elicited cogent explanatory posts by Stephen and Joe.Axel
November 3, 2012
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1- If we are the product of descent with modification from the originally Created Kinds then Creationsim is science as science only cares about reality 2- If the Bible were totally refuted Intelligent Design would be OK but YEC would be finished 3- Intelligent Design could be true without Biblical Creation being true 4- If Biblical Creation is true then ID is true- perhaps that is the confusion that causes conflating the two. Justice Lewis Powell wrote in his concurrence to Edwards v. Aguillard, “(A) decision respecting the subject matter to be taught in public schools does not violate the Establishment Clause simply because the material to be taught ‘happens to coincide or harmonize with the tenets of some or all religions’.” And if you think about it if the religion is right there should be supporting evidence, and THAT is ALL science cares about.Joe
November 3, 2012
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Joshua
Although both ID theorists, Francis compares Behe’s view with Paul Nelson’s view to illustrate the different positions within the ID tent.
As you seem to understand, there is a big difference Creationism and ID, an incontestable fact that your friend has yet to grasp. Here is something from our FAQ: "Creationism moves forward: that is, it assumes, asserts or accepts something about God and what he has to say about origins; then interprets nature in that context. Intelligent design moves backward: that is, it observes something interesting in nature (complex, specified information) and then theorises and tests possible ways how that might have come to be. Creationism is faith-based; Intelligent Design is empirically-based. Each approach has a pedigree that goes back over two thousand years. We notice the “forward” approach in Tertullian, Augustine, Bonaventure, and Anselm. Augustine described it best with the phrase, “faith seeking understanding.” With these thinkers, the investigation was faith-based. By contrast, we discover the “backward” orientation in Aristotle, Aquinas, and Paley. Aristotle’s argument, which begins with “motion in nature” and reasons BACK to a “prime mover” — i.e. from effect to its “best” causal explanation — is obviously empirically based. To say then, that Tertullian, Augustine, Anselm (Creationism) is similar to Aristotle, Aquinas, Paley (ID) is equivalent to saying forward equals backward. What could be more illogical?"
In his response Francis points out that Behe, amongst the three mentioned is the only qualified biological scientist.
It is not solely or even primarily a scientific problem. A fair analysis requires knowledge of the philosophy of science, historical science, and sound philosophical reasoning. Many biological scientists are not even acquainted with the first rules of right reason, interpreting evidence as if the law of causation (nothing can begin to exist without a cause) is negotiable or can be selectively applied.
Francis asks the question ‘…how is it that ID just simply can’t seem to rid itself of creationist associations?’
Since when are we obliged to denigrate the opinions of Young Earth Creationists in order to legitimize our own position? It is not our job to change our associations to please Darwinists; it is their job to understand the difference between faith-based creationism and empirically-based ID.
Although I don’t see a legitimate connection between evolution and atheism it is tempting to turn the original question around and ask: How is it that evolution just simply can’t seem to get rid of its atheistic associations?
That’s the spirit.
Francis attaches unwarranted significance to the Dover trial in deciding ID’s validity.
There is no reason to take seriously the decision of a judge who doesn’t understand the difference between a faith-based analysis and an empirically based analysis, or one who would, in his final decision, put words in the mouths of witnesses in order to reconcile their testimony with forgone conclusions provided by the ACLU. To be more specific, Judge Jones, in his final decision, ignored Behe's carefully worded statement that ID is "consistent with religion," which is clearly true, and put in its place the words "dependent on religion," which clearly is false--a highly dishonest substitution calculated to leave the impression that Behe had finally, and to everyone's surprise, acknowledged an inextricable link between ID and religion. This is judicial misconduct at its worst.StephenB
November 3, 2012
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Hi Axel, I don't think it's fair to assume that debating with a neo-Darwinist will always be entirely fruitless. Certainly, there are many neo-Darwinists who have no interest in rational argument and evidence, and when confronted with such individuals it would be pointless to even start a measured discussion. However, I know Francis personally and although I think he's profoundly mistaken on this issue, I think he is serious about the issues being discussed and is largely open-minded. We are intending to debate in a respectful and substantive manner and if you read some of our previous exchanges you will see that we are not merely talking past each other and we are coming to understand our fundamental differences. I am open to the possibility that I'm wrong. Although I think Francis holds to Darwinism in a slightly uncompromising, firm, and perhaps dogmatic manner (though that word is a little strong), I think he is not immune to evidence and is open to the possibility of being wrong. Realistically I doubt that this long exchange will serve to change our minds, but that isn't why we started this discussion. The main aim is to help us both come to a better understanding of the opposing views and to get closer to the truth. It may also prove to be helpful to some other readers and if some follow this discussion it may clarify their own thinking. Best, JoshuaJoshua G
November 3, 2012
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I marvel that you can have the hunmility and patience to argue with a neo-Darwinist. Do you not see that a resolution is impossible, for as long as your empirical evidence is one of your cardinal premises, while his would be just-so stories. If you don't share such a primordial premise, you will be arguing past each other all the time - with no connection.Axel
November 3, 2012
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