Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Prominent NAS member trashes neo-Darwinism

Share
Facebook
Twitter
LinkedIn
Flipboard
Print
Email

Natural selection …is not the fundamental cause of evolution.

Masatoshi Nei

Science continues to destroy Darwinism. A prominent member of the National Academy of Sciences, Masatoshi Nei, trashed neo-Darwinism in the recent peer-reviewed article: The new mutation theory of phenotypic evolution.

Haldane’s dilemma showed mathematically that natural selection could not be the major driving force of evolution. Haldane’s dilemma lead in part to the non-Darwinian theory of molecular evolution known as the “neutral theory of molecular evolution”. Neutral theory asserted natural selection was not the principal driving force of molecular evolution. However, when molecular neutral theory was presented to the world in the 1960’s, it was politically incorrect to assert the obvious consequence of the neutral theory of molecular evolution, namely: morphology, physiology, and practically anything else made of molecules would NOT be principally shaped by natural selection either.

In What are the speed limits of naturalistic evolution?, I pointed out:

And if Haldane’s dilemma were not enough of a blow to Darwinian evolution, in the 1960’s several population geneticists like Motoo Kimura demonstrated mathematically that the overwhelming majority of molecular evolution was non-Darwinian and invisible to natural selection. Lest he be found guilty for blasphemy, Kimura made an obligatory salute to Darwin by saying his non-Darwinian neutral theory “does not deny the role of natural selection in determining the course of adaptive evolution”. That’s right, according to Kimura, adaptive evolution is visible to natural selection while simultaneously molecular evolution is invisible to natural selection. Is such a position logical? No. Is it politically and intellectually expedient? Absolutely!

But now 4 decades later, the inevitable consequence of Haldane’s dilemma and Kimura’s neutral theory may be ending the uneasy truce between neo-Darwinists and neutralists.

Nei writes:

For the last six decades, the dominant theory of evolution has been neo-Darwinism, which was developed by the three founders of theoretical population genetics, Fisher (1), Wright (2), and Haldane (3), and was later supported by various evolutionists (4). Neo-Darwinism asserts that natural selection is the driving force of evolution,
….
In the last four decades, the study of molecular evolution has shown that a majority of amino acid substitutions in proteins are neutral or nearly neutral

However, most evolutionists still believe in neo-Darwinism with respect to phenotypic evolution and are not interested in neutral evolution (19,22).

Mayr (23) stated that neutral mutations apparently occur at the molecular level, but because they do not affect phenotypic characters, they are of little interest to evolutionists.
….

By contrast, Nei (17, 24, 25) argued that because phenotypic characters are ultimately controlled by DNA sequences, both molecular and phenotypic evolution must occur in similar [non Darwinian] ways. He also suggested that a considerable portion of morphological evolution is caused by neutral or nearly neutral mutations, and the driving force of evolution is mutation at both molecular and phenotypic levels.
….
As mentioned in the introduction, a majority of current evolutionists believe in neo-Darwinism. In one of the most popular textbooks on evolution, Futuyma (ref. 20, p. 10) states that evolutionary change is a population process in which one genotype replaces other ones, and for this process to occur, mutation is quite ineffective because of its low rate of occurrence, whereas even the slightest intensity of natural selection can bring about substantial change in a realistic amount of time. He also states “Natural selection can account for both slight and great differences among species, and adaptations are traits that have been shaped by natural selection.” Although this type of statement is quite common in the evolutionary literature, it is obvious that any advantageous genotype is produced by mutation including all kinds of genetic changes. Natural selection occurs as a consequence of mutational production of different genotypes, and therefore it is not the fundamental cause of evolution.

Historically, the word mutationism was used to refer to William Bateson’s saltationism or similar ideas, in which natural selection plays little role. Later Morgan (109) presented a more reasonable form of mutationism taking into account the role of natural selection. His view was abstract and based on a few lines of speculative arguments. However, recent molecular studies of phenotypic evolution support the basic ideas of his view and have extended it to a more comprehensive view presented in this article. If the new form of mutation theory described here is right, even in its crudest form, more emphasis should be given on the roles of mutation in the study of evolution.

Notes:

1. ID sympathizer Dr. John Davison, who has spent much of his recent life promoting the works of William Bateson, should be much encouraged with these developments. It was through Davison I learned of Bateson’s wonderful ideas.

2. Richard Dawkins wrote of Kimura in Blindwatchmaker. Dawkins argued Kimura’s ideas wouldn’t overturn Darwinism since Darwinism operated at the higher level of adaptation whereas Kimura’s non-Darwinian theory operated at the lower level of molecules. But the reductionists are now getting taste of their own medicine. If the Darwinism doesn’t operate at the molecular level, then why should we expect it to operate at much higher levels like morphology and physiology either?

3. Lewontin gives a powerful example of neutral evolution at the morphological level. Rhinos have either 1 horn or 2 horns. Did natural selection cause the evolution of one horn in one case, and 2 horns in another? Unlikely.

4. Salthe pointed out a fundamental contradiction in Fisher’s fundamental theorem of natural selection. Selection is the enemy of diversity. Salthe realized the obvious problem of trying to account for the abundance of diversity through a mechanism which reduces diversity.

5. At least 3 signatories of the Discovery Institute’s Dissent from Darwin list anticipated these recent developments. Davison, Salthe, and Ho. Ho managed to present echoes of these ideas 30 years ago in a peer-reviewed journal. See: An eloquent but bogus non-review by Dawkins.

a relative lack of natural selection may be the prerequisite for major evolutionary advance

Mae Wan Ho

Comments
Just a question for whoever wants to answer. Can anyone explain to me how evolution based on neutral mutations and/or genetic drift is supposed to work? (I mean, withour NS, or with only a small contribution by it). In other words, I don't believe in the power of NS for two reasons: 1) Behe's arguments have definitely demonstrated that NS cannot select complex new functions, because complex new functions are IC and cannot be selected in a step by step way (the only way open to NS). 2) Dembski's work shows clearly that no really blind selection can improve the efficiency of a search. In other words, in all the examples of true selection, either natural or artificial, a new complex function can be selected only if the "selecting agent" has some specific information about what to select. Otherwise, no CSI can arise from random variation. That's a brief summary of why NS cannot explain biological information. But my point is, at least the theory of RM + NS is "trying" to explain something, even if it fails. But neutral mutations? Genetic drift? These are, by admission of their proponents, completely random and blind phenomena. How are they supposed to explain CSI? How are they supposed to explain any complex function? Are the proponents of this kind of "evolution" completely unaware of the mathematical impossibilities of obtaining CSI by purely random methods? Have they never read any serious ID source? Or are they simply not interested in the question? I am not implying that neutral mutations and/or genetic drift don't exist, or that they are not frequently observable in nature. Of course hey are. My question is: how can they help in explaining biological functional complexity?gpuccio
July 19, 2007
July
07
Jul
19
19
2007
08:43 AM
8
08
43
AM
PDT
Bob OH wrote: No, I don’t see any reason for a limit on the average selection coefficient.
I went back to geneticist John Sanford's book Genetic Entropy where I got the idea. Rather than the way I phrased it (which was rather clumsy), let me state the result he concluded based on Kimura's cost analysis in his 1983 publication Neutral Theory of Molecular Evolution pp. 30-31. In Kimura's publication, 138 nucleotide sites can be selected simultaneously when s = .01, and C=.50. C = Total selective cost to a population, the fraction of the poulation that is NOT allowed to reproduce in order to achieve all selection. For example, assume on average humans have 4 kids, if on average 2 of the kids effectively don't reproduce but are selected against, the C value is 2 / 4 = .5 In contrast, plants that bear 100 seeds can afford to have 99 not reproduce, so their C value is 99/100 = .99 This of course is an idealization, but an optimistic one for evolution. There are many non selective reasons for no reproduction (i.e. accidental death, etc.). So these are rather generous idealizations to begin with. There is the Additive Model and the Multiplicative Model in calculating cost. For the sake of brevity, given an optimisitc C=.5 for humans and a selection coefficient of s = .001, Sanford gives the number of simultaneous "traits" that can be selected for: Additive Model 500 traits Multiplicative Model 700 traits This implies, if indeed a large amount of the 4 gigabase pair human genome is functional, only about 700 nucleotides can be positively selected at one time, the majority of molecular evolution must surely be NOT influenced by natural selection. Whether my line of reasoning here is correct is less important than the fact neutral molecular evolution is an accepted fact by many evolutionists. I have only given my take on it here. Sanford Notes: 1. trait is often meant to tie to phenotype, however, there is a generalization where the idea of an inhereted nucleotide is still a "trait" scordova
July 19, 2007
July
07
Jul
19
19
2007
08:16 AM
8
08
16
AM
PDT
Bob OH wrote: I’ve no idea where you got this from. There’s nothing to stop a selection coefficient being >1.
I got it from Evolution by Mark Ridley, 3rd Edition: He writes:
The coefficient of selection is usually taken to be a measure of the extent to which natural selection is acting to reduce the relative contribution of a given genotype to the next generation. Denoted as s, the selection coefficient is a number between zero and one. If s = 1, selection against the genotype is total, and it makes no contribution to the next generation. If s = 0, the genotype is not selected against at all. In this case gene frequencies will lapse into the Hardy-Weinberg case, unless there is neutral drift.
scordova
July 19, 2007
July
07
Jul
19
19
2007
08:00 AM
8
08
00
AM
PDT
Selection coefficients are rated from 0 to 1, with 1 being the maximum possible for a trait.
I've no idea where you got this from. There's nothing to stop a selection coefficient being >1.
In general, if an organism has 10,000 possible selectable traits, can the AVERAGE selection co-efficient be greater than 1/10,000? The more traits an organism has, the more selection is diluted per trait. Is that a valid interpretation?
No, I don't see any reason for a limit on the average selection coefficient. I think you've mis-understood selection coefficients. Or you're asking about something other than selection coefficients (i.e. the s in the population genetics equations of Haldane et al.). I'll comment more on the Nei paper later: I'm still reading it. BobBob O'H
July 18, 2007
July
07
Jul
18
18
2007
11:31 PM
11
11
31
PM
PDT
Long live Margulis -- one of the few who actually has a real mechanism for speciation -- the generation of new symbioses. See my reviews here: http://baraminology.blogspot.com/2006/07/organosubstrate-and-symbiotic-planet.html http://baraminology.blogspot.com/2007/03/more-from-margulis-pointers-to.html http://baraminology.blogspot.com/2006/03/creation-ecological-diversification.html http://baraminology.blogspot.com/2006/02/new-science-of-eco-devo.htmljohnnyb
July 18, 2007
July
07
Jul
18
18
2007
08:28 PM
8
08
28
PM
PDT
The paper by Nei is a tough read, not because of the technical content, but because the paper on the whole is something of a random walk (just like neutral evolution LOL!). In strongly selective environments (pesticice and antibiotic resistance), the evolution of ceratain traits is predictable and repeatable. In contrast, in neutral evolution, there are no predictions as to what the evolved form will look like. We observe neutral evolution in nature, and it appears more ubiquitous than selective evolution.
The prospective view of evolution suggests that evolution occurs without purpose by mutation and adaptation to new environmental conditions, and therefore it is intrinsically unpredictable M. Nei
Thus a mutation pops up, we get something of saltation which PRE-adapts the organism to an new environment. If the organism happens to have access to the new environment. All the better. The old line is preserved and so is the new line, hence diversity (and recall, diversity is a problem for Darwinism). There are numerous views of evolutionary mechanisms: 1. Competetion (Darwin) 2. Neutral random walk (Kimura, Nei, so many others) 3. Cooperation (Goodwin) 4. Structuralism/Self Organization 5. Front Loaded evolutionscordova
July 18, 2007
July
07
Jul
18
18
2007
04:28 PM
4
04
28
PM
PDT
What is more important in causing phenotypic evolution? Mutations which have shown to be at least 99.9% of the time to be disadvantageous to an organisms survival, or natural selection which may or may not eliminate any of those those harmful mutations? What they are arguing over is what type of theoretical scenario has the best chance of theoretically being correct even though the odds of either theory actually being able to have relevance to speciation in known reality within known probabilities are so infinitesimally small as to make the whole debate nothing more then an ironic exercise in begging the question and circular reasoning. They want everyone to believe that the "scientific" choices which are available to explain life are evolution and nothing else. Evolution is accepted as true then they try and convince us that the real question on life is how evolution works, not if it can work. Their approach is in reality unscientific because they completely neglect actual known probabilities concerning mutations and their probabilistic effects on an organism. Therefore they are accepting as conclusive truth a theory which is based on an imagined power of RM and NS on speciation and then using that imagined power of RM and NS to try to prove that evolution is true.mentok
July 18, 2007
July
07
Jul
18
18
2007
04:10 PM
4
04
10
PM
PDT
For the UD readers benefit, regarding the reference to Vizzini, here is a 5-minute clip of Wesley vs. Vizzini. Enjoy.scordova
July 18, 2007
July
07
Jul
18
18
2007
01:30 PM
1
01
30
PM
PDT
NS cannot account for molecules to man evolution, as the first organisms which existed on our planet (bacteria) where already fitter and better adapted to liveable environments than all the organisms which supposedly evolved from them. How in other words can NS direct the evolution of higher organisms when it correlates to a reduction in fitness? At some point, for example, NS would have to select for longer gestation times, longer generation times, reduced population sizes, sexual reproduction etc, etc.
a relative lack of natural selection may be the prerequisite for major evolutionary advance
Acquiesce
July 18, 2007
July
07
Jul
18
18
2007
01:10 PM
1
01
10
PM
PDT
"who issued those guys science degrees?" Birds of a feather flock togetherMatthewTan
July 18, 2007
July
07
Jul
18
18
2007
12:46 PM
12
12
46
PM
PDT
Darwinists always try to dance around the fact that they are bound by random mutations for any creative process. That is to put it simply that a random mutation of some sort must occur first and foremost on the molecular level before natural selection has anything to select from on the macro level. I've seen all sorts of obfuscation from darwinists surrounding this one very simple point. The empirical evidence testifying against gross beneficial morphological changes from random molecular mutations is overwhelming. Yet darwinists must claim that evolution is constantly occurring so they must divorce it from the actual evidence we are finding on the molecular level. I swear, who issued those guys science degrees?bornagain77
July 18, 2007
July
07
Jul
18
18
2007
12:34 PM
12
12
34
PM
PDT
Bob, Appreciate your comments. For my benefit and the reader's benefit, given that you are probably the best poplulation geneticist in our UD community, I have theoretical question. Selection coefficients are rated from 0 to 1, with 1 being the maximum possible for a trait. In general, if an organism has 10,000 possible selectable traits, can the AVERAGE selection co-efficient be greater than 1/10,000? The more traits an organism has, the more selection is diluted per trait. Is that a valid interpretation? I realize there might be some math circumstances that might allow the AVERAGE to be greater than 1/10,000, but if in general 1/10,000 would be the general limit on the Average, then it seems to me that approximate neutralism of all traits has substantial theoretical soundness, since on average, many traits would have to be close to being selectively neutral. I welcome your thoughts on this.scordova
July 18, 2007
July
07
Jul
18
18
2007
12:26 PM
12
12
26
PM
PDT
Bob OH: Sal - can you give a reference for Lewontin’s comments in your point 3?
I got it second hand from Arch Darwinist, Larry Moran here. If Moran got it wrong, I'd appreciate being alerted. Thanks. [update: I just corrected the link]scordova
July 18, 2007
July
07
Jul
18
18
2007
12:01 PM
12
12
01
PM
PDT
Bob - you bring up a good point. However, from a layman's point of view, NDE seems to rest on the foundations of NS+RM. If NS is "not the fundamental cause of evolution", as Nei states, then NDE can almost be equated with a game of Yahtzee. Also, if the fundamental cause of evolution is RM, what is left of NDE? I am not trying to be difficult, I would just like to know what the implications are (with views from both sides of the fence). Also, does this mean that Dawkins will be pushed to the side since he sees NS as having such awesome creative powers? Barry - excuse me for a second while I clean my monitor. LOLJJS P.Eng.
July 18, 2007
July
07
Jul
18
18
2007
11:59 AM
11
11
59
AM
PDT
JJS, better question. Who would play the albino dungeon keeper? I vote for Daniel Dennett.BarryA
July 18, 2007
July
07
Jul
18
18
2007
11:38 AM
11
11
38
AM
PDT
Sal - can you give a reference for Lewontin's comments in your point 3? Folks - Nei is hardly going to deny evolutionary biology. This is more of a discussion about the relative strengths of the different forces. Nei is arguing that we should stress mutation and contingency more. As an evolutionary biologist, I find nothing disturbing: I think he's only looking at evolution over a long time-scale, but this is a detail that is obvious from the context. And like any good (or, round here, evil?) evolutionary biologist, he does stress the blind nature of the evolutionary process: one of his conclusion is (p12241, middle column):
The prospective view of evolution suggests that evolution occurs without purpose by mutation and adaptation to new environmental conditions, and therefore it is intrinsically unpredictable.
BobBob O'H
July 18, 2007
July
07
Jul
18
18
2007
11:36 AM
11
11
36
AM
PDT
[...] From Uncommon Descent As mentioned in the introduction, a majority of current evolutionists believe in neo-Darwinism. In one of the most popular textbooks on evolution, Futuyma (ref. 20, p. 10) states that evolutionary change is a population process in which one genotype replaces other ones, and for this process to occur, mutation is quite ineffective because of its low rate of occurrence, whereas even the slightest intensity of natural selection can bring about substantial change in a realistic amount of time. He also states ‘‘Natural selection can account for both slight and great differences among species, and adaptations are traits that have been shaped by natural selection.’’ Although this type of statement is quite common in the evolutionary literature, it is obvious that any advantageous genotype is produced by mutation including all kinds of genetic changes. Natural selection occurs as a consequence of mutational production of different genotypes, and therefore it is not the fundamental cause of evolution. [...]Terminus Est » Blog Archive » Natural selection does not drive evolution
July 18, 2007
July
07
Jul
18
18
2007
11:32 AM
11
11
32
AM
PDT
As mentioned in the introduction, a majority of current evolutionists believe in neo-Darwinism.
I've been looking for a comprehensive poll of the positions of evolutionists/Darwinists for a while now. They're divided into camps and I figured the Neo-Darwinist camp was still the largest but I'd still like to know the percentage for each camp. It's quite confusing when you're debating someone and it turns out they're not even in the Neo-Darwinist camp.Patrick
July 18, 2007
July
07
Jul
18
18
2007
11:02 AM
11
11
02
AM
PDT
TOO GOOD Barry!alan
July 18, 2007
July
07
Jul
18
18
2007
10:40 AM
10
10
40
AM
PDT
I wonder if Nei stayed close enough to the "evolutionary canons" to avoid being called a hack like Philip Skell. After all, Nei did not call evolutionary biology useless. But then again, I give it 24 hours before some PTer or P-Zed spews venom at Nei. hmmm, maybe NAS should have a "Dissent from Darwin" petition going, too. Skell, Nei, anyone else? Princess Bride: Classic! Love it! Question: who would play Prince Humperdink? (I vote for Dawkins) ;)JJS P.Eng.
July 18, 2007
July
07
Jul
18
18
2007
10:36 AM
10
10
36
AM
PDT
Great post Sal. Watching the evolutionists run around in circles spouting mutually exclusive axioms brings to mind a scene from my favorite movie, Princess Bride. After listening to Vizzini spew his pseudo-intellectual analysis for several minutes, the man in black (Wesley) replies, “Truly you have a dizzying intellect.” Vizzini, on whom Wesley’s irony is completely lost, shouts back, “Wait ‘till I get going!”BarryA
July 18, 2007
July
07
Jul
18
18
2007
10:07 AM
10
10
07
AM
PDT
1 5 6 7

Leave a Reply