What if Lincoln and Darwin HAD met?

Wallstreeter, ,,, 'injecting yourself with radioactive dyes and passing gamma rays through your body is what you call being dedicated to science! :) bornagain77

BA77, you might want to include this tidbit in your posts on the shroud of turin. Doctor August Accetta was a believer until in his late twenties he came to believe that religion was acrutch used by the elderly to help them feel better about physical death. He became an agnostic. Years later he was lead by curiousity to the shroud of turin and decided to do some experiments of his own in trying to replicate the shroud. Accetta actually came closest to replicating the shroud and actually replicated many of its unique features by injecting himself with radioactive particles and passing (get this) gamma rays through his body. He came the closest so far but couldn't replicate all of its features and fell short of replicating a face. But through his research the shroud helped to inch him closer to faith and his reading of scripture brought him all the way back.. Here is some of his work along with Physicist John Jackson and Kenneth Lyons MD. references from mostly peer reviewed papers are provided at the bottom. This is actually a very underfollowed research area that many have forgotten about. I don't know if I would have been brave enough to take the chances with my health that Doctor Accetta took but im sure glad he did now. http://www.shroud.com/pdfs/accett2.pdf NUCLEAR MEDICINE AND ITS RELEVANCE TO THE SHROUD OF TURIN Hypothesis: If indeed a corpse created the image we see on the Shroud, then the source for the energy received by the cloth may be from the molecular bond energy and/or nuclear forces within the body in some way interacting with the cloth. The closest practical tool we have to study this today is nuclear medicine. this is a 7 page paper. very fascinating stuff wallstreeter43

Actually Abe was told and pictured as a ape. Possibly in reference to evolution. Abe was smart and would see Darwins idea as unsupported and unlikely. Darwin wouldn't have clue why Abe was a leading thinker in American politics. Darwin was simplistic from what i read about his stuff. Robert Byers

Also of note:

Shroud Of Turin - Sewn From Two Pieces (Matches Masada Cloth) - 2000 Years Old - video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4109101 The Sudarium of Oviedo http://www.shroud.com/guscin.htm Scientists say Turin Shroud is supernatural - December 2011 Excerpt: After years of work trying to replicate the colouring on the shroud, a similar image has been created by the scientists. However, they only managed the effect by scorching equivalent linen material with high-intensity ultra violet lasers, undermining the arguments of other research, they say, which claims the Turin Shroud is a medieval hoax. Such technology, say researchers from the National Agency for New Technologies, Energy and Sustainable Economic Development (Enea), was far beyond the capability of medieval forgers, whom most experts have credited with making the famous relic. "The results show that a short and intense burst of UV directional radiation can colour a linen cloth so as to reproduce many of the peculiar characteristics of the body image on the Shroud of Turin," they said. And in case there was any doubt about the preternatural degree of energy needed to make such distinct marks, the Enea report spells it out: "This degree of power cannot be reproduced by any normal UV source built to date." http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/scientists-say-turin-shroud-is-supernatural-6279512.html The absorbed energy in the Shroud body image formation appears as contributed by discrete values - Giovanni Fazio, Giuseppe Mandaglio - 2008 Excerpt: This result means that the optical density distribution,, can not be attributed at the absorbed energy described in the framework of the classical physics model. It is, in fact, necessary to hypothesize a absorption by discrete values of the energy where the 'quantum' is equal to the one necessary to yellow one fibril. http://cab.unime.it/journals/index.php/AAPP/article/view/C1A0802004/271

etc.. etc.. Verse and Music:

2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. TobyMac - Speak Life http://myktis.com/songs/speak-life/

bornagain77

OT: There was an article up on Physorg, the day before yesterday, which sought to overturn the radiocarbon dating done in 1988 which supposedly showed a young medieval date for the Shroud (i.e. the Davinci hypothesis :) ). The new hypothesis involves an 'earthquake'. I found it to be strange that they would publish this highly speculative hypothesis since the 1988 carbon dating has now been known to be wrong for several years: Here's the paper:

Is an earthquake behind carbon dating of Shroud of Turin image? Excerpt: http://phys.org/news/2014-02-earthquake-carbon-dating-shroud-turin.html#jCp

Here are a few notes overturning the 1988 carbon dating:

Shroud of Turin - Carbon 14 test proves false (with Raymond Rogers, lead chemist from the STURP project) - video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxDdx6vxthE Why The Carbon 14 Samples Are Invalid, Raymond Rogers per: Thermochimica Acta (Volume 425 pages 189-194, Los Alamos National Laboratory, University of California) Excerpt: Preliminary estimates of the kinetics constants for the loss of vanillin from lignin indicate a much older age for the cloth than the radiocarbon analyses. The radiocarbon sampling area is uniquely coated with a yellow–brown plant gum containing dye lakes. Pyrolysis-mass-spectrometry results from the sample area coupled with microscopic and microchemical observations prove that the radiocarbon sample was not part of the original cloth of the Shroud of Turin. The radiocarbon date was thus not valid for determining the true age of the shroud. The fact that vanillin can not be detected in the lignin on shroud fibers, Dead Sea scrolls linen, and other very old linens indicates that the shroud is quite old. A determination of the kinetics of vanillin loss suggests that the shroud is between 1300- and 3000-years old. Even allowing for errors in the measurements and assumptions about storage conditions, the cloth is unlikely to be as young as 840 years. http://www.ntskeptics.org/issues/shroud/shroudold.htm

Rogers passed away shortly after publishing this paper, but his work was ultimately verified by work done at (not by) the Los Alamos National Laboratory:

Carbon Dating Of The Turin Shroud Completely Overturned by Scientific Peer Review Excerpt: Rogers also asked John Brown, a materials forensic expert from Georgia Tech to confirm his finding using different methods. Brown did so. He also concluded that the shroud had been mended with newer material. Since then, a team of nine scientists at Los Alamos has also confirmed Rogers work, also with different methods and procedures. Much of this new information has been recently published in Chemistry Today. http://shroudofturin.wordpress.com/2009/02/19/the-custodians-of-time/ “Analytical Results on Thread Samples Taken from the Raes Sampling Area (Corner) of the Shroud Cloth” (Aug 2008) Excerpt: The age-dating process failed to recognize one of the first rules of analytical chemistry that any sample taken for characterization of an area or population must necessarily be representative of the whole. The part must be representative of the whole. Our analyses of the three thread samples taken from the Raes and C-14 sampling corner showed that this was not the case....... LANL’s work confirms the research published in Thermochimica Acta (Jan. 2005) by the late Raymond Rogers, a chemist who had studied actual C-14 samples and concluded the sample was not part of the original cloth possibly due to the area having been repaired. - Robert Villarreal - Los Alamos National Laboratory http://www.ohioshroudconference.com/ Shroud Of Turin Carbon Dating Overturned - Robert Villarreal - Press Release video http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4041193

Using a non-destructive dating technique, the date for the Shroud was narrowed to 300 BC and 400AD

Turin Shroud 'is not a medieval forgery' - 28 Mar 2013 Excerpt: Experiments conducted by scientists at the University of Padua in northern Italy have dated the shroud to ancient times, a few centuries before and after the life of Christ.,,, The analysis is published in a new book, "Il Mistero della Sindone" or The Mystery of the Shroud, by Giulio Fanti, a professor of mechanical and thermal measurement at Padua University,,, Scientists, including Prof Fanti, used infra-red light and spectroscopy – the measurement of radiation intensity through wavelengths – to analyse fibres from the shroud,,, The tests dated the age of the shroud to between 300 BC and 400AD.,,, Scientists have never been able to explain how the image of a man's body, complete with nail wounds to his wrists and feet, pinpricks from thorns around his forehead and a spear wound to his chest, could have formed on the cloth. Mr Fanti said the imprint was caused by a blast of “exceptional radiation”, although he stopped short of describing it as a miracle. He said his tests backed up earlier results which claimed to have found on the shroud traces of dust and pollen which could only have come from the Holy Land.,,, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9958678/Turin-Shroud-is-not-a-medieval-forgery.html

bornagain77

Thankfully, they were born in the same year. If Darwin had been around much before Abe, poor Abe would have been a nobody, since he won the presidency with his mantra "All men are created equal". The compassionate Democrats and Whigs would not have formed the Republican party. The only ones voting for him would have be the Abolutionist fundies. awstar