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Dembski on design detection in under three minutes

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From David Klinghoffer at Evolution News & Views:

We last checked in with Robert Lawrence Kuhn of the PBS series Closer to Truth as he interviewed physicist and Nobel laureate Brian Josephson who said he was “80 percent” sure of intelligent design. (BOOM.)

These aren’t brand new interviews by Kuhn, but still very interesting – and concise. Now, submitted for your Labor Day enjoyment, here’s one, pointed out by a Facebook friend, with mathematician William Dembski. Dr. Dembski briefly defines the method of detecting intelligent design. It is, he says, a form of triangulation on the effects of intelligence, namely contingency, complexity, and specification. The last of those refers to the question of “Does it conform to some sort of independently given pattern?”

Kuhn, not an ID proponent as far as I know, shrewdly notes that ID doesn’t seek to “prove” God, of the Bible or any other gods, but it is consistent with what you’d expect from a Deity. I find that distinction to be stubbornly lost on many ID critics. More.

Of course it’s lost on them! Dealing with the realities of design in nature would be conceptual work. By contrast, anyone can run around shrieking through a loud-hailer and stirring up a base. And they can often get government to fund it.

Who knows, one of these days, the jig may be up.

See also: Data basic

Comments
Aliens could have designed life on earth, but insofar as they are purely material, the information that comes from the aliens cannot have been created by the aliens. That is just the logical conclusion of the data processing inequality from information theory. Or, take the expectation of CSI and it will always be non-positive.EricMH
September 9, 2017
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OOL study, and Evolution are studied by scientists as seperate fields, but both fields attack these subjects with rigour, deep curiosity, and passionate ferocity.
And after all of that you still have NOTHING! So either it didn't happen or you and yours are complete morons.ET
September 9, 2017
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rvb8
yes, aliens are possible, but who designed the aliens?
Science proceeds one step at a time. But thank you for continuing to expose your scientific illiteracy.
Here’s a question for ET, who appears to want to go down punching, by continually denying the clear link betaween ID and Christianity.
Try to make that link or shut up already
Why is it that whenever a State, or school district, in the US wants to alter the Public School science curricula by introducing ID language, or, ‘Teach the Controversy’ (Heh:), language, it is always (not sometimes), suggested by Christian religionists?
Evidence please. And by your "logic" evolutionism is an atheistic thing, which would also fly in the face of the US Constitution.ET
September 9, 2017
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RVB8-- Support SETI, Who has opposed it, at least on a voluntary or ad hoc level? Granted there would be opposition to create a highly funded bureaucracy, but this opposition wouldn't be philosophical but based on the quite reasonable suspicion that it is a corrupt tax scam.tribune7
September 9, 2017
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RVB8, You seem to imagine that if you repeat a talking point in defiance of and disregard for truth long enough and often enough, it will become plausible -- at least to your intended audience. Most likely, on the theory that most people lack the imagination to see that big lies are possible and are too often to be seen. In short, you have . . . again . . . resorted to a notorious propaganda tactic, and this is duly noted. KFkairosfocus
September 9, 2017
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rvb8 @22 Unresponsive. Again, ID is compatible with alien designers of unknown origin.Origenes
September 9, 2017
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Origines @21, then start looking for them. Support SETI, who knows when they finally confess there involvement in design, we can then ask them about their own origins.rvb8
September 9, 2017
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rvb8 @18
rvb8: yes, aliens are possible, but who designed the aliens?
Good question. ID does not have the answer. Scientific data concerning aliens is lacking and ID is, at this point, forced to remain neutral wrt their origin.
rvb8
Origenes: “ID should be allowed to remain neutral on the origin of these aliens.”
Why? It only strengthens the accusation that ID lacks curiosity.
Neutrality on the origin of aliens is not due to lack of curiosity, but due to lack of data.Origenes
September 9, 2017
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boru @19, of course the identity of the Designer is not part of ID. That would be to admit supernaturalism, as the Designer would, needs must, be above and beyond His creation, the pure definition of a deity. By avoiding who the Designer is, and the more perplexing question, who designed the Designer, ID denies its religious antecedents. But boru, no one is fooled, least of all the desingenuous posters here.rvb8
September 9, 2017
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The identity of the Designer is not part of the theory.boru
September 8, 2017
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Origenes @16, yes, aliens are possible, but who designed the aliens? "ID should be allowed to remain neutral on the origin of these aliens." Why? It only strengthens the accusation that ID lacks curiosity. OOL study, and Evolution are studied by scientists as seperate fields, but both fields attack these subjects with rigour, deep curiosity, and passionate ferocity. And you come along and say, "well, we're not really interested in the origins of alien designers because that would lead to an infinate regression which would point to an ultimate designer, God. And we are desperate to keep God out of the design inferance because that would expose our religious motivations." Deceit, disingenuousness, duplicitousness, hypocracy, thy name is ID.rvb8
September 8, 2017
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Here's a question for ET, who appears to want to go down punching, by continually denying the clear link betaween ID and Christianity. Why is it that whenever a State, or school district, in the US wants to alter the Public School science curricula by introducing ID language, or, 'Teach the Controversy' (Heh:), language, it is always (not sometimes), suggested by Christian religionists? ET, thoughts?rvb8
September 8, 2017
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EricMH @14 ID is compatible with aliens as the intelligent designers of earthly life. ID should be allowed to remain neutral on the origin of these aliens.Origenes
September 8, 2017
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EMH, there are those who will argue till the cows come home, that our brains are design-capable, and that they are produced by blind chance and mechanical necessity cumulatively acting over thousands of millions of years. Of course, they have no evidence of such having the capability to search relevant configuration spaces successfully, but that is their faith. Only, they don't realise that this is a huge faith-claim. KFkairosfocus
September 8, 2017
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That being said, ID does require an entity that can create information, which nothing purely material can do. So, ID minimally implies an immaterial, yet causally effective plane of existence, i.e. more than just information and math since information and math cannot do anything.EricMH
September 8, 2017
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*crickets*EricMH
September 8, 2017
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Bob O'H- You don't know what you are talking about. "The Design Revolution", page 25, Dembski writes:
Intelligent Design has theological implications, but it is not a theological enterprise. Theology does not own intelligent design. Intelligent design is not a evangelical Christian thing, or a generally Christian thing or even a generally theistic thing. Anyone willing to set aside naturalistic prejudices and consider the possibility of evidence for intelligence in the natural world is a friend of intelligent design.
He goes on to say:
Intelligent design requires neither a meddling God nor a meddled world. For that matter, it doesn't even require there be a God.
Now what?
First, by any reasonable definition of the term, intelligent design is not "religion".- page 441 under the heading Not Religion- Signature in the Cell- Meyer
ET
September 8, 2017
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ET @ 10 - I, at least, wouldn't call the author of Intelligent Design: The Bridge Between Science & Theology. a moron.Bob O'H
September 8, 2017
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Does ID believe that if you write that ID and Christianity have no clear connection enough times
There isn't any connection between ID and Christianity. Only morons on an agenda try to make one.ET
September 8, 2017
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Josephson’s a bit of a crank isn’t he?
Not when compared to materialistsET
September 8, 2017
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Is there a difference between what a theory states and what its supporters state? Or are theory and supporters indistinguishable?EricMH
September 7, 2017
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Bob O'H @2, wow, that is certainly a hell of a lot of 'woo' the man accepts. So, Kuhn who is not an ID proponentcist, suggests he can make the distinction between a 'Deity' for ID, which he finds acceptable, and not that ID is in any way, related to the Judaeo/Christian traditon. How many girations of the spine did that take him? All he has to do is come here to UD and observe how the KJV of the Christian Bible is used as source material, and a referance text, to disabuse him on that notion. Does ID believe that if you write that ID and Christianity have no clear connection enough times, then it will become real?rvb8
September 7, 2017
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I can levitate birds but no one seems to care. - Steven Wright
Heartlander
September 7, 2017
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> Am I a quackpot? most definitely! :DMung
September 7, 2017
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I can easily demonstrate psychokinesis by levitating my hand through only the power of my mind. Am I a quackpot?EricMH
September 7, 2017
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Bob O'H @ 2: Read your wife's article. Found the following interesting: "Yet both men have ended up in the same place: they have abandoned rationality and the scientific method to advocate boneheaded fantasies." Using that standard, Lawrence Krauss and Richard Dawkins must own several of these quackpottery awards.Truth Will Set You Free
September 7, 2017
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Josephson's a bit of a crank isn't he? Ah, yes. My wife wrote about him and as I recall he wasn't very happy.Bob O'H
September 7, 2017
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This article from Evolution News -- https://evolutionnews.org/2017/09/researchers-highlight-logistics-nightmare-facing-chromosome-controls/ would seem to end the debate over whether or not there is design in nature -- in overwhelming favor of ID. And it's a part of a continuing steam of discoveries coming out of -- ready for this -- science properly reported. The Dawkins' and Coynes' of the pseudo-science world seem so stuck in the dark ages of the ivory towers of lifelong academia.DonJohnsonDD682
September 7, 2017
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