Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

Richard Dawkins To Be Taught in Religion Class in UK

Share
Facebook
Twitter
LinkedIn
Flipboard
Print
Email

Intelligent design to feature in school RE lessons

Alexandra Smith
Tuesday January 23, 2007
EducationGuardian.co.uk

Teenagers will be asked to debate intelligent design (ID) in their religious education classes and read texts by evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins under new government guidelines.

In a move that is likely to spark controversy, the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority has for the first time recommended that pupils be taught about atheism and creationism in RE classes.

Atheism is being addressed as a religion. A step in the right direction because that’s exactly what it is – a Godless religion and Darwin is its prophet.

ID, which argues that the creation of the world was so complex that an intelligent – religious – force must have directed it, has become a contentious issue that has divided scientists and Christians in Britain.

Note the gratuitous conflation of intelligent force and religious force. This is the only effective way that ID can be attacked – by making it into a religious strawman. This intellectual dishonesty reflects poorly on those that stoop to it. Dawkins and his ilk are nothing but liars, creeps, and mental lightweights.

Some of the world’s top scientists have expressed outrage over the teaching of creationism and ID in school science classes, which they say is an attempt to smuggle fundamentalist Christianity into science teaching. They argue that it should be made clear to pupils that science backs the theory of evolution.

Now the QCA wants pupils in England to debate the relationship between science and religion in their RE lessons. The teaching of ID and creationism should prove less contentious in this part of the curriculum (although the scientists who argue that ID is a science may be disconcerted), as pupils will investigate and role-play disputes between religion and science, such as Galileo, Charles Darwin and Richard Dawkins.

Galileo is the only real scientist in that short list and he was also a devout Roman Catholic. Darwin was just a religiously conflicted naturalist (more of a stamp collector than a scientist) and Dawkins an atheist propagandist that’s never done a lick of science (or any other constructive activity AFAIK) in his entire life.

Pupils will be expected to understand terms such as creation, God as creator of the universe, intelligent design, the Big Bang theory, the sacred story and purposeful design, as well as words that are specific to a religion, such as Bible, Rig Veda, and Qur’an.

The key here is whether or not ID is presented in the strawman form conflated with religion or in the form held by its major proponents as the study of intelligence, complexity, and design in nature.

The new guidelines for key stage 3 (11 to 14-year-olds), published yesterday, say: “This unit focuses on creation and origins of the universe and human life and the relationship between religion and science. It aims to deepen pupils’ awareness of ultimate questions through argument, discussion, debate and reflection and enable them to learn from a variety of ideas of religious traditions and other world views.

“It explores Christianity, Hinduism and Islam and also considers the perspective of those who do not believe there is a god (atheists). It considers beliefs and concepts related to authority, religion and science as well as expressions of spirituality.”

Comments
"Well, almost every definition of the world religion I have found includes reference to either god or the supernatural" There are atheistic strains of hinduism and buddhism. Yet these are religions so your definition is incomplete. "And by naturalist, you mean “an advocate of the doctrine that the world can be understood in scientific terms”?" No Naturalist is someone who thinks (most basically) that matter is all there is in the universe, it is a variety of materialism. And then the collection of results that naturally flow from such a starting premise.Jason Rennie
January 23, 2007
January
01
Jan
23
23
2007
08:27 PM
8
08
27
PM
PDT
Jason Rennie To clear something up there is an equivocation here. The term “atheist” is being used as a synonym for “naturalist”. And by naturalist, you mean "an advocate of the doctrine that the world can be understood in scientific terms"? I doubt you can define the term “religious belief” in a non-special pleading fashion that includes everything people normally think of as a religion but still manages to exclude Naturalism. Well, almost every definition of the world religion I have found includes reference to either god or the supernatural. Out of the 27 definitions provided here: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=define%3Areligion&btnG=Search all seem to include a mention of god or the supernatural. The only reasonable one (excluding a site that defines religion as something to do with aliens:) )that would include "atheism" as a religion is from Summit Ministries (http://www.summit.org/resource/dictionary/#r), which includes atheism as a special case of religion. I have never seen a standard dictionary define religion without reference to God or the supernatural. Perhaps you could provide such a definition? Both Merriam-Webster and the Cambridge dictionary specifically include "belief in god" as part of the primary definition. shaner74 franky172, the difference is that atheism is a set of beliefs about God – a faith that He does not exist. I do not see how this relates to the definition of religion above - religion typically defined as "a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny" or "the service and worship of God or the supernatural". The fact that atheists lack such beliefs does not make atheism a religion as far as I can tell. Atheism wouldn’t even be a word were it not for theism. And? At the very least, you absolutely must accept the fact that you adhere to your set of atheistic beliefs on faith. To deny that would be intellectually dishonest. I disagree that atheists (weak atheists at least) base their beliefs on "faith" - but as far as I can tell, that is not relevant to whether or not atheism is a religion. I may have had faith that the Pats were going to win last night, this does not make my beliefs "religious". crandaddy Atheism is a metaphysical belief; therefore, IMO, if it is not a religion, it is at least religious. I agree that atheism is a statement about the metaphysical. So is "the ideal chair exists", I do not believe this makes either of those statements "religious" per the definitions provided above.franky172
January 23, 2007
January
01
Jan
23
23
2007
07:22 PM
7
07
22
PM
PDT
I think many people, myself included, question the role of religion and its uses in modern times. Dawkins is a good source to research if you want to address some common questions facing the function of religion today. I can see why it would be brought up in religious class.Fross
January 23, 2007
January
01
Jan
23
23
2007
07:19 PM
7
07
19
PM
PDT
This presents a great opportunity for the formulators of Intelligent Design Theory to insist that only genuine ID literature is presented in the UK curriculum, not pseudo-ID material culled from the (usually biased) media, or Wikipedia. If they're going to teach genuine Darwin-Dawkins, ID's leading lights must insist on nothing but the genuine Behe, Dembski, Johnson, Denton, et al, being included. The ID side should expect some disingenuousness from its opponents who are likely to try and misrepresent ID in the material to be taught in the UK. The ID side needs to act pre-emptively to forestall such an eventuality. As has become all too obvious in recent years, the Darwinists have mastered the craft of using political and legal machinations to disparage and destroy those who question their atheistic and materialist religion. We should presume, therefore, that already there are some in the UK working to sabotage ID in the proposed curriculum. Were they to be left to succeed and "front load" the curriculum with pseudo-ID, they kill the baby at birth -- another successful partial-birth abortion. Carpe diem!Emkay
January 23, 2007
January
01
Jan
23
23
2007
06:38 PM
6
06
38
PM
PDT
Atheism is a metaphysical belief; therefore, IMO, if it is not a religion, it is at least religious.crandaddy
January 23, 2007
January
01
Jan
23
23
2007
06:32 PM
6
06
32
PM
PDT
Oh and of course, ceremonial dress. The parallels are surprising.Jason Rennie
January 23, 2007
January
01
Jan
23
23
2007
06:27 PM
6
06
27
PM
PDT
"but so is the belief that the Patriots should have won the Super Bowl this year - is football now a “religion”" Actually down here in Oz, sports does function as a substitute for religion in practice. Complete with holy days and religious rituals.Jason Rennie
January 23, 2007
January
01
Jan
23
23
2007
06:26 PM
6
06
26
PM
PDT
“...system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith, but so is the belief that the Patriots should have won the Super Bowl this year - is football now a “religion”” franky172, the difference is that atheism is a set of beliefs about God – a faith that He does not exist. No matter which way you spin the Patriots game, it has nothing to do with the existence of God. Atheism wouldn’t even be a word were it not for theism. At the very least, you absolutely must accept the fact that you adhere to your set of atheistic beliefs on faith. To deny that would be intellectually dishonest.shaner74
January 23, 2007
January
01
Jan
23
23
2007
06:15 PM
6
06
15
PM
PDT
"IDist - Here is a list of articles from the bibliography section of his website at Oxford. Although it appears that he has written peer reviewed articles he has not written one since 1980. The Nature in 1994 article is more of a commentary on viruses fo the mind as it deals with a “chain letters” and behavior." So her jumped the shark in 1981 ?Jason Rennie
January 23, 2007
January
01
Jan
23
23
2007
05:46 PM
5
05
46
PM
PDT
"You believe that atheism is a religion? Under which definition of the word “religion”?" To clear something up there is an equivocation here. The term "atheist" is being used as a synonym for "naturalist". And in terms of being a "religious belief", Naturalism certianly qualifies. I doubt you can define the term "religious belief" in a non-special pleading fashion that includes everything people normally think of as a religion but still manages to exclude Naturalism. Though you are welcome to try. Although "belief in god" is not something all religions have nor "belief in the supernatural", so those wont work. About the only think that will work is something like "Anything that is called a religion except Naturalism" but that is special pleading. A better term is worldview, and Naturalism is certianly that.Jason Rennie
January 23, 2007
January
01
Jan
23
23
2007
05:45 PM
5
05
45
PM
PDT
"a Godless religion and Darwin is its prophet." Actually it is probably fairer to say Nietzsche is its prophet.Jason Rennie
January 23, 2007
January
01
Jan
23
23
2007
05:41 PM
5
05
41
PM
PDT
"... intelligent - religious - force ..." hmm... Perhaps, then all of academia is intelligent - religious - studies.JGuy
January 23, 2007
January
01
Jan
23
23
2007
04:19 PM
4
04
19
PM
PDT
franky I'm using the Judge Jones definition of religion to classify atheism as a religion. Near as I can tell his definition is that if people who talk about religion a lot have other ideas their other ideas must be religious ideas. I hear atheists talking about a religion a lot. Take Richard Dawkins for instance. A very famous atheist and all he seems to do is talk about religion.DaveScot
January 23, 2007
January
01
Jan
23
23
2007
03:48 PM
3
03
48
PM
PDT
IDist - Here is a list of articles from the bibliography section of his website at Oxford. Although it appears that he has written peer reviewed articles he has not written one since 1980. The Nature in 1994 article is more of a commentary on viruses fo the mind as it deals with a "chain letters" and behavior. Dawkins, R. & Dawkins, M. Decisions and the uncertainty of behaviour. Behaviour 45, 83-103. (1973) Dawkins, R. & Carlisle, T. R. Parental investment, mate desertion and a fallacy. Nature 161, 131-133. (1976) Dawkins, R. & Krebs, J. R. Animal signals: information or manipulation? In Behavioural Ecology (eds J. R. Krebs & N. B. Davies), pp. 282--309. (Oxford: Blackwell Scientific Publications. 1978) Dawkins, R. & Krebs, J.R. Arms races between and within species. Proceedings of the Royal Society of London, B, 205: 489-511 (1979) Dawkins, R. & H. Jane Brockman, Joint Nesting in a Digger Wasp as an Evolutionarily Stable Preadaptation to Social Life, Behaviour, 71, pp. 203-245 (1979). Dawkins, R. & Brockmann, H. J. Do digger wasps commit the Concorde fallacy? Animal Behaviour 28, 892-896. (1980) Oliver R. Goodenough & Dawkins, The "St Jude" mind virus. Nature, Vol.371, No.6492, pp.23-24 (1994)late_model
January 23, 2007
January
01
Jan
23
23
2007
02:49 PM
2
02
49
PM
PDT
What I wanted to say, and is well known, is that he DON’T (instead of didn’t) publish I think the word your looking for is "doesn't" (does not). And your English is far better than my whatever your native language is.tribune7
January 23, 2007
January
01
Jan
23
23
2007
01:16 PM
1
01
16
PM
PDT
dacook 2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices This definition of religion relies on the word "religious", which is somewhat circular, no? Or, when the first definition of religion clearly excludes atheism "b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural " 4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith No one can argue that #4 certainly applies to prof. Dawkins. I find definition 4 to be so vague as to be pointless, and certainly not the definition most people assume when you use the word "religion". For example, it may be true that for some people "atheism" is a system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith, but so is the belief that the Patriots should have won the Super Bowl this year - is football now a "religion" because some people believe certain things about it with ardor and faith? Under definition #4 nearly *everything* is a religion depending on whom you ask. I do not think this is what people mean when they say "atheism is a religion".franky172
January 23, 2007
January
01
Jan
23
23
2007
12:53 PM
12
12
53
PM
PDT
KevinWParker, Excuse me, English is not my mother tongue and I think I need to improve my sense of grammer. What I wanted to say, and is well known, is that he DON'T (instead of didn't) publish, he hasn't done any research for a while as far as I know. And I'm not implying that he's not a scientist, I am saying that it is by darwinists way of thinking, they make a big deal of peer-review. I am not trying to question Dawkins' knowledge of evolution, of course he has great knowledge. (BTW, I've seen his CV, most of his articles, specially recent ones, are all about atheism, not science. If promoting atheism is what makes one a scientist then of course they count)IDist
January 23, 2007
January
01
Jan
23
23
2007
12:51 PM
12
12
51
PM
PDT
Atheism as a religion was a fun topic of debate a few months ago on a religious discussion board I occasionally participate in. Atheism meets at least two of the dictionary definitions of a religion: Main Entry: re£li£gion Pronunciation: ri-‚li-j„n Date: 13th century ... 2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices ... 4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith (from Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary) No one can argue that #4 certainly applies to prof. Dawkins.dacook
January 23, 2007
January
01
Jan
23
23
2007
12:41 PM
12
12
41
PM
PDT
bFast Atheism, as taught by Dawkins is certainly “a a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe.” Further, it clearly meets, “containing a moral code governing the conduct of human.” Why did you cut out the middle of the definition? On a side point, I've never heard of an "atheist" moral code concerning the conduct of human affairs.franky172
January 23, 2007
January
01
Jan
23
23
2007
12:26 PM
12
12
26
PM
PDT
DaveScot, You say, "I’m confident that when ID is fairly presented it is obvious that it’s not religion." And, granted, in your posts and comments you don't conflate ID and religion. But given the personal (and publicly stated) beliefs by many ID behemoths, the Wedge document, and that even this website's manifesto says "materialistic ideology has subverted the study of biological and cosmological origins ... science is being used illegitimately to promote a materialistic worldview", inter alia, surely you can understand why people get confused?trystero57
January 23, 2007
January
01
Jan
23
23
2007
11:41 AM
11
11
41
AM
PDT
Here is the scenario: The class starts by watching the videos "Unlocking the Mystery of Life" and "The Privileged Planet"- The class then argues that ID does NOT belong in a religious education class as ID is based on observational data and does not care about worship or beliefs.Joseph
January 23, 2007
January
01
Jan
23
23
2007
11:31 AM
11
11
31
AM
PDT
Franky172, "You believe that atheism is a religion? Under which definition of the word “religion”?" Please consider www.dictionary.com Religion
1: a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
Atheism, as taught by Dawkins is certainly "a a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe." Further, it clearly meets, "containing a moral code governing the conduct of human."bFast
January 23, 2007
January
01
Jan
23
23
2007
11:05 AM
11
11
05
AM
PDT
DaveScot Atheism is a religious belief under the same definition that ID is a religious belief. I'm still not sure what that definition you're using is, though.franky172
January 23, 2007
January
01
Jan
23
23
2007
10:55 AM
10
10
55
AM
PDT
Richard Dawkins is not even a scientist as he didn’t didn’t publish in any peer-reviewed journal, let alone great scientist! Dawkins' CV lists at least 50 peer-reviewed papers, including ones in leading journals like Evolution and Nature.KevinWParker
January 23, 2007
January
01
Jan
23
23
2007
10:49 AM
10
10
49
AM
PDT
Inoculated I'm confident that when ID is fairly presented it is obvious that it's not religion. I'm also confident that when atheism is fairly presented it's a Godless religion. Franky Atheism is a religious belief under the same definition that ID is a religious belief. You can't have your cake and eat it too.DaveScot
January 23, 2007
January
01
Jan
23
23
2007
10:44 AM
10
10
44
AM
PDT
[...] Over at Uncommon Descent, they are gleefully posting about ID and atheism both being included in a UK religion class. PZ Myers at Pharyngula is also pleased by the news. How can both sides be happy about the same thing? [...]The Inoculated Mind : A little Tuesday morning Madness
January 23, 2007
January
01
Jan
23
23
2007
10:21 AM
10
10
21
AM
PDT
ID, which argues that the creation of the world was so complex that an intelligent - religious - force must have directed it...
Why is it that atheists are always the first to bring religion into scientific discussions of origins?sagebrush gardener
January 23, 2007
January
01
Jan
23
23
2007
10:13 AM
10
10
13
AM
PDT
DaveScot Atheism is taught in religion class. Connect the dots. You believe that atheism is a religion? Under which definition of the word "religion"?franky172
January 23, 2007
January
01
Jan
23
23
2007
10:12 AM
10
10
12
AM
PDT
DaveScot, if ID is taught in religion class, but Dawkins is only brought up as a rebuttal to ID, Dawkins' views may not be presented as religious, but scientific. Though history is taught in history class, history teachers often grade spelling. Therefore it is not only history that is taught in history class. If so it may not be only religion taught in religion class.bFast
January 23, 2007
January
01
Jan
23
23
2007
09:13 AM
9
09
13
AM
PDT
austinite There is nothing in that article to say that atheism is being addressed as a religion. Saying that it is going to be taught in RE classes is not the same thing. History is taught in history class. Science is taught in science class. Math is taught in math class. Art is taught in art class. Religion is taught in religion class. Atheism is taught in religion class. Connect the dots. DaveScot
January 23, 2007
January
01
Jan
23
23
2007
08:30 AM
8
08
30
AM
PDT
1 2 3

Leave a Reply