Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

They said it: contrasted introductions to (and definitions of) Intelligent Design at Wikipedia and New World Encyclopedia

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News has just put up a post with the Meyer lecture on intelligent design (with a close focus on the pivotal case, origin of life, the root of Darwin’s tree of life analogy).  I responded here, in light of the history of ideas issues raised by the lecture as well as the question of why origin of life  is so pivotal tot he whole question at stake, but in so doing I had occasion to visit the Wikipedia article on Intelligent Design.

I saw that it had further mutated and evolved under intelligent direction into an even more strident tone than the last time I bothered to look or comment, and so I think it instructive to contrast two introductions to ID in online encyclopedias, Wiki and New World Encyclopedia (NWE) which has the inputs of Dr Jonathan Wells:

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Wiki: >> This article is about the form of creationism promulgated by the Discovery Institute. For the philosophical “argument from design”, see Teleological argument. For other uses of the phrase, see Intelligent design (disambiguation).
Intelligent design (ID) is a form of creationism promulgated by the Discovery Institute, a politically conservative think tank. The Institute defines it as the proposition that “certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.”[1][2] It is a contemporary adaptation of the traditional teleological argument for the existence of God, presented by its advocates as “an evidence-based scientific theory about life’s origins” rather than “a religious-based idea”.[3] All the leading proponents of intelligent design are associated with the Discovery Institute [n 1][4] and believe the designer to be the Christian deity.[n 2]

Scientific acceptance of Intelligent Design would require redefining science to allow supernatural explanations of observed phenomena, an approach its proponents describe as theistic realism or theistic science. It puts forth a number of arguments in support of the existence of a designer, the most prominent of which are irreducible complexity and specified complexity.[5] The scientific community rejects the extension of science to include supernatural explanations in favor of continued acceptance of methodological naturalism,[n 3][n 4][6][7] and has rejected both irreducible complexity and specified complexity for a wide range of conceptual and factual flaws.[8][9][10][11] Intelligent design is viewed as a pseudoscience by the scientific community, because it lacks empirical support, offers no tenable hypotheses, and aims to describe natural history in terms of scientifically untestable supernatural causes.

Intelligent design was developed by a group of American creationists who revised their argument in the creation–evolution controversy to circumvent court rulings such as the United States Supreme Court’s Edwards v. Aguillard decision, which barred the teaching of “Creation Science” in public schools on the grounds of breaching the separation of church and state.[12][n 5][13] The first publication of the phrase “intelligent design” in its present use as an alternative term for creationism was in Of Pandas and People, a 1989 textbook intended for high-school biology classes.[14][15] From the mid-1990s, intelligent design proponents were supported by the Discovery Institute, which, together with its Center for Science and Culture, planned and funded the “intelligent design movement”.[16][n 1] They advocated inclusion of intelligent design in public school biology curricula, leading to the 2005 Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District trial, where U.S. District Judge John E. Jones III ruled that intelligent design is not science, that it “cannot uncouple itself from its creationist, and thus religious, antecedents”, and that the school district’s promotion of it therefore violated the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.[17]>>

NWE: >> Intelligent design (ID) is the view that it is possible to infer from empirical evidence that “certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection[1] Intelligent design cannot be inferred from complexity alone, since complex patterns often happen by chance. ID focuses on just those sorts of complex patterns that in human experience are produced by a mind that conceives and executes a plan. According to adherents, intelligent design can be detected in the natural laws and structure of the cosmos; it also can be detected in at least some features of living things.

Greater clarity on the topic may be gained from a discussion of what ID is not considered to be by its leading theorists. Intelligent design generally is not defined the same as creationism, with proponents maintaining that ID relies on scientific evidence rather than on Scripture or religious doctrines. ID makes no claims about biblical chronology, and technically a person does not have to believe in God to infer intelligent design in nature. As a theory, ID also does not specify the identity or nature of the designer, so it is not the same as natural theology, which reasons from nature to the existence and attributes of God. ID does not claim that all species of living things were created in their present forms, and it does not claim to provide a complete account of the history of the universe or of living things.

ID also is not considered by its theorists to be an “argument from ignorance”; that is, intelligent design is not to be inferred simply on the basis that the cause of something is unknown (any more than a person accused of willful intent can be convicted without evidence). According to various adherents, ID does not claim that design must be optimal; something may be intelligently designed even if it is flawed (as are many objects made by humans).

ID may be considered to consist only of the minimal assertion that it is possible to infer from empirical evidence that some features of the natural world are best explained by an intelligent agent. It conflicts with views claiming that there is no real design in the cosmos (e.g., materialistic philosophy) or in living things (e.g., Darwinian evolution) or that design, though real, is undetectable (e.g., some forms of theistic evolution). Because of such conflicts, ID has generated considerable controversy.>>

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This is an obvious case of whose report do you believe, why?

I would like to hear our thoughts on these two introductions, noting that in its current appeals for funding and support Wikipedia says it is the no. 5 most popularly visited web site in the world.

As a starter, I think the Wiki article is an obvious case of ideologically charged well-poisoning, as Nizkor summarises:

Poisoning the Well

This sort of “reasoning” involves trying to discredit what a person might later claim by presenting unfavorable information (be it true or false) about the person. This “argument” has the following form:

  1. Unfavorable information (be it true or false) about person A is presented.
  2. Therefore any claims person A makes will be false.

This sort of “reasoning” is obviously fallacious. The person making such an attack is hoping that the unfavorable information will bias listeners against the person in question and hence that they will reject any claims he might make. However, merely presenting unfavorable information about a person (even if it is true) hardly counts as evidence against the claims he/she might make. This is especially clear when Poisoning the Well is looked at as a form of ad Homimem in which the attack is made prior to the person even making the claim or claims.

. . . and that it so taints Wikipedia that something as loaded, unfair and biased as their article [just look at the drive-by ideologically loaded a priori materialism driven, question-begging redefinition of science in the teeth of easily accessible history and philosophy, compounded by the twisted-about propaganda tactic accusation that it is those who would appeal to more traditional and well accepted views who are trying to redefine science, cf.  my remarks on that problem here , here and here on as well as Johnson’s rebuke here] passes their vaunted “NPOV” — neutral point of view — mechanisms that I must view all Wikipedia articles with considerable caution.

So also, on topics where the known biases of the obviously dominant a priori evolutionary materialist secular humanist views are liable to distort what is presented and how it is presented, this popular online encyclopedia has essentially zero credibility.

I also think that should inform our decisions regarding support to that site in any way, shape or form.

Now, what do you think? Why? END

Comments
NOTICE: Gregory has been notified on snarkiness trending to poisonous distraction and word games, in light of the response and warning in 9 above, two days ago. Unless someone who is a third party specifically requests a response on points made in the just above, I will by and large ignore the above as having already been adequately answered by simply consulting the AmHD as a sampler of the range of meanings for the term, "evolution" as already given in 9 above. To wit:
e·volve (-vlv) v. e·volved, e·volv·ing, e·volves v.tr. 1. a. To develop or achieve gradually: evolve a style of one’s own. b. To work (something) out; devise: “the schemes he evolved to line his purse” (S.J. Perelman). 2. Biology To develop (a characteristic) by evolutionary processes. 3. To give off; emit. v.intr. 1. To undergo gradual change; develop: an amateur acting group that evolved into a theatrical company. 2. Biology To develop or arise through evolutionary processes. [Latin volvere, to unroll : -, ex-, ex- + volvere, to roll; see wel-2 in Indo-European roots.] e·volva·ble adj. e·volvement n. The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
My usage in the OP is obviously well within the significance of meanings 1 a and b. Therefore, Gregory has no serious cause on the merits for complaint. And, yes, for good reason unrelated to ID, I see TRIZ as a useful perspective on technological change with progress through variations and adaptations that are intelligently directed by inventors and innovators who trigger adoption waves and even revolutions that lead to reducing formerly dominant products to niches, such as mainframes and desktops have already experienced and as clam-shell laptops are about to go through at the hands of tablets. The same obtains for product markets more generally, the result of adoption waves and waves of switching away to successor products. The usage in the OP stands. KFkairosfocus
December 31, 2012
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This suggests an opportunity to educate IDists about 'evolution' – what it means and doesn't mean. What hasn't been demonstrated thus far is a willingness to learn outside of American conceputalisation. Most IDists seem to think they know more about evolution than anyone else on the planet! [GREGORY: You are hereby warned on snarky tone trending to atmosphere poisoning. You are also warned on tengentiality, here in the face of a definition already given that should have answered all you really needed if the above and below were meant as a serious contribution. As in the word evolution has a wide cluster of related meanings, which allows significant discussion in that light. And so, you are notified that insistent diversions or games with definitions similar to the diversion on the definition of "arbitrary" will not be tolerated. I allow the below to stand in documentation of why I am giving fair warning. KF] John G. West knows this very well because he likewise couldn't come up with an answer regarding "Things that don't evolve" (other than the Creator), even as I reminded him of Dembski's strange support for 'technological evolution' theories (e.g. TRIZ). I've asked this question to hundreds of people from many different countries and have published and presented on it for the past 5 years. KF is toting an unnecessary party-line, which should actually be seen as anti-ID, rather than pro-ID! @KF#9 - yes, I'm quite aware of various dictionary definitions. I even checked out the definition of 'evolution' in the Big Soviet Encyclopedia (???). Could you imagine what it might say, given your Cold War acknowledgements here at UD? "It should have been obvious that I used the term [evolution] metaphorically, and ironically." - KF Irony is difficult to detect in blog posts. What makes you think you demonstrated irony in using the term 'evolution' as you did? What makes you think it is ironic to say Wikipedia 'evolves'? You have not made yourself clear on this in the past, but we can hope for improvement in the present. "Indeed, political systems, philosophies, and product markets are all said to evolve." - KF Yes, and don't you find that problematic?! This doesn’t mean they do, just that they are ‘said to.’ Aren't you folks supposed to be opposing grand theories of evolution, instead of embracing them with your mixed language? Joe is simply being foolish and crude in his view that "evolution is just change." No, evolution is a particular type of change. But ‘change’ is the master category. Since Big-ID is so keen on terms like 'guided' and 'directed,' doesn't it make you think that alternatives to 'evolution' could be a welcome improvement to your 'theory'? The Wikipedia entry is 'changing,' but not 'evolving.' That said, go ahead and send some more insults at me for pointing this out, Joe, as if you think they are valuable. And KF can go ahead and carry on with telling us how unfair the world is to Big-ID theory and the IDM, based on Wikipedians' views of them. The point that Wikipedia is a changing, but non-evolving entity should be conceded.Gregory
December 31, 2012
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Gregory:
Second, ‘evolved under intelligent direction’ is an oxymoron.
No, it isn't. Evolution is just change and change can be directed. IOW organisms were designed to evolve and evolved by design- an example would be Dawkins' "weasel" program and all genetic/ evolutionary algorithms. BTW Gregory, if you just opened up a little bit you would see that evolutionists throw around the word "evolution" regarding the universe, galaxies, solar systems and planets. So perhaps you just need to get out more often. Just sayin'...Joe
December 30, 2012
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Mung: THEY HAVE TO, TO PROMOTE THEIR TALKING POINT STREAM. KFkairosfocus
December 30, 2012
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You have to love how wikipedia places ID on one locus, the Discovery Institute. As if they are the only people on the planet who accept ID.Mung
December 30, 2012
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Onlookers: It is vital to correct the misrepresentations of design theory at Wikipedia, for record; both because of the influence of Wikipedia, and because these are the same mischaracterisations that are ever so common. So, let us continue. For today, let us move on down just a bit:
The Institute defines it [ID] as the proposition that “certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.”[1][2] It is a contemporary adaptation of the traditional teleological argument for the existence of God, presented by its advocates as “an evidence-based scientific theory about life’s origins” rather than “a religious-based idea”.[3] All the leading proponents of intelligent design are associated with the Discovery Institute [n 1][4] and believe the designer to be the Christian deity.[n 2]
1 --> Wiki correctly cites the basic assertion of design theory, but fails to give the empirically grounded warrant for that claim and then substitutes a loaded and well-poisoning context. 2 --> This is an unfortunately familiar rhetorical tactic in our day, making a red herring side-track attention, leading us away to a convenient strawman soaked in ad hominems and ignited to cloud, confuse, polarise and poison the atmosphere. 3 --> Such is certainly not the vaunted NPOV and should be corrected. 4 --> However, the material issue at stake is, how can it be warranted scientifically to infer from "certain features of the universe and of living things" that they are "best explained" as designed by an intelligent cause, and not the credible product of blind chance and/or mechanical necessity? 5 --> As Stephen Meyer of the DI CSC has -- again (this is not exactly news) -- outlined in a recent lecture (cf here at UD and here at KF), the pivotal question is that on matters of origins, science is seeking to provide a good explanation for the remote and unobserved past on its traces, in light of causes that are known to characteristically produce similar effects in the here and now. 6 --> That is we have a key feature from the past, F, and a cluster of potential candidates C1, C2, C3, . . . Cn, and we have evidence in hand that are such that of these, per empirical investigation in the here and now where we can observe reliably, only Ci is such that it produces the same feature F as an effect. In such a case, F is a sign that points to the action of Ci, as its best explanation. 7 --> For example, we have not and probably will never visit remote stars. However, stars emit light and we can observe the spectra of that light. From such spectral observations, we can make a comparison to known and onwards calculated phenomena that give rise to similar effects in our own laboratories here on earth. So, we can draw conclusions about the chemistry of stars, their temperature, the underlying physical conditions that give rise to such, and so forth. Indeed, this is a major part of astrophysics. 8 --> That is, the general issue is a case of explaining on reliable, tested signs. So, the sort of reasoning Newton advanced in his four rules presented in Principia obtains:
Rule II [[--> uniformity of causes: "like forces cause like effects"] Therefore to the same natural effects we must, as far as possible, assign the same causes. As to respiration in a man and in a beast; the descent of stones in Europe and in America; the light of our culinary fire and of the sun; the reflection of light in the earth, and in the planets. Rule III [[--> confident universality] The qualities of bodies, which admit neither intensification nor remission of degrees, and which are found to belong to all bodies within the reach of our experiments, are to be esteemed the universal qualities of all bodies whatsoever. For since the qualities of bodies are only known to us by experiments, we are to hold for universal all such as universally agree with experiments; and such as are not liable to diminution can never be quite taken away. We are certainly not to relinquish the evidence of experiments for the sake of dreams and vain fictions of our own devising; nor are we to recede from the analogy of Nature, which is wont to be simple, and always consonant to [398/399] itself . . . .
9 --> Such reasoning is of course always provisional, but that is a general feature of science. A great many conclusions based on experience are highly reliable, through not beyond correction in principle. That is why Newton continued:
Rule IV [[--> provisionality and primacy of induction] In experimental philosophy we are to look upon propositions inferred by general induction from phenomena as accurately or very nearly true, notwithstanding any contrary hypotheses that may be imagined, till such time as other phenomena occur, by which they may either be made more accurate, or liable to exceptions. This rule we must follow, that the arguments of induction may not be evaded by [[speculative] hypotheses.
10 --> So, as was outlined in the very first ID Foundations post in this long-running UD blog series:
A key aspect of inference to cause is the significance of observed characteristic signs of causal factors, where we may summarise such observation and inference on sign as: I observe one or more signs [in a pattern], and infer the signified object, on a warrant: I: [si] –> O, on W a –> Here, the connexion is a more or less causal or natural one, e.g. a pattern of deer tracks on the ground is an index, pointing to a deer. b –> If the sign is not a sufficient condition of the signified, the inference is not certain and is defeatable; though it may be inductively strong. (E.g. someone may imitate deer tracks.) c –> The warrant for an inference may in key cases require considerable background knowledge or cues from the context. d –> The act of inference may also be implicit or even intuitive, and I may not be able to articulate but may still be quite well-warranted to trust the inference. Especially, if it traces to senses I have good reason to accept are working well, and are acting in situations that I have no reason to believe will materially distort the inference. 4 –> Fig. A [--> cf the linked, a flowchart of the design inference as an empirical investigation pattern] highlights the significance of contingency in assigning cause. If a given aspect of a phenomenon or object is such that under similar circumstances, substantially the same outcome occurs, the best explanation of the outcome is a natural regularity tracing to mechanical necessity. The heavy object in 2 above, reliably and observably falls at 9.8 m/s^2 near the earth’s surface. [Thence, via observations and measurements of the shape and size of the earth, and the distance to the moon, the theory of gravitation.] 5 –> When however, under sufficiently similar circumstances, the outcomes vary considerably on different trials or cases, the phenomenon is highly contingent. If that contingency follows a statistical distribution and is not credibly directed, we assign it to chance. For instance, given eight corners and twelve edges plus a highly non-linear behaviour, a standard, fair die that falls and tumbles, exhibits sensitive dependency to initial and intervening conditions, and so settles to a reading pretty much by chance. Things that are similar to that — notice the use of “family resemblance” [i.e. analogy] — may confidently be seen as chance outcomes.) 6 –> However, under some circumstances [e.g. a suspicious die], the highly contingent outcomes are credibly intentionally, intelligently and purposefully directed. Indeed: a: When I type the text of this post by moving fingers and pressing successive keys on my PC’s keyboard, b: I [a self, and arguably: a self-moved designing, intentional, initiating agent and initial cause] successively c: choose alphanumeric characters (according to the symbols and rules of a linguistic code) towards the goal [a purpose, telos or "final" cause] of writing this post, giving effect to that choice by d: using a keyboard etc, as organised mechanisms, ways and means to give a desired and particular functional form to the text string, through e: a process that uses certain materials, energy sources, resources, facilities and forces of nature and technology to achieve my goal. . . . The result is complex, functional towards a goal, specific, information-rich, and beyond the credible reach of chance [the other source of high contingency] on the gamut of our observed cosmos across its credible lifespan. In such cases, when we observe the result, on common sense, or on statistical hypothesis-testing, or other means, we habitually and reliably assign outcomes to design.
11 --> This pattern of reasoning is glorified common sense in the end, a commonplace of being a reasonable and prudent thinker about our world. So, why is it that suddenly, such a pattern becomes extremely controversial to the point of being suggested to be motivated by nefarious religious bias and political agendas, on matters of origins? 12 --> There is no good answer to that, as it is highly evident that origins science has become dominated by the sort of ideological evolutionary materialist a priorism that led the US National Science Teachers Association (NSTA) to formally issue through its Board the following assertions regarding science education, in 2000:
The principal product of science is knowledge in the form of naturalistic concepts and the laws and theories related to those concepts . . . . Although no single universal step-by-step scientific method captures the complexity of doing science, a number of shared values and perspectives characterize a scientific approach to understanding nature. Among these are a demand for naturalistic explanations supported by empirical evidence that are, at least in principle, testable against the natural world. Other shared elements include observations, rational argument, inference, skepticism, peer review and replicability of work . . . . Science, by definition, is limited to naturalistic methods and explanations and, as such, is precluded from using supernatural elements in the production of scientific knowledge. [[NSTA, Board of Directors, July 2000.]
13 --> The obvious problem here, is that ever since at least Plato, we have known that causal factors embrace not only blind chance and mechanical necessity working through deterministic laws similar to F = m*a or E = m*c^2, but also ART-ificial causes that leave reliable traces of their action, which may be empirically studied and distinguished. 14 --> That is, it is simply not true tha the alternative to "natural" causes and forces is "supernatural" ones. A different and quite familiar factor comes easily to hand -- indeed the members of NSTA's Board used this cause when they composed the above statement, and this statement is full of a particular and pivotal sign of such intelligent cause acting by ART. 15 --> Namely, functionally specific, complex organisation and associated information (FSCO/I), especially in the form here of digitally coded, functionally specific, complex information, dFSCI. For the statement is a string data structure with digitally coded elements, expressive of a long (so, complex) statement in English, in accordance with the rules and specifications of meaningful English statements, which are independent of the particular strings. 16 --> Such FSCO/I and in particular dFSCI, is habitually and reliably associated with intelligent action tot he point that it is reasonable to take it as a sign of such intelligent cause. 17 --> Indeed, this can be reduced to an equation, which gives a threshold beyond which it is reasonable to conclude (per the atomic and temporal resources of the solar system or observable cosmos at either end of the range 500 - 1,000 bits) that he reasonable explanation on observation and analysis of the sampling space needle in haystack challenge implied, is design. Namely, at the solar system level: Chi_500 = Ip*S - 500, bits beyond the solar system threshold 18 --> Where, the related needle in haystack analysis indicates that the blind search challenge is equivalent to taking a blind one straw sized sample of a cubical haystack 1,000 light years thick [about as thick as our galaxy), which is overwhelmingly likely to pick up straw, even if we were to impose sch a haystack on our galactic neighbourhood. 19 --> Where also, it is evident form a wide body of experience, that when function of a complex entity depends on correct arrangement, integration and synchornisation of a cluster of well-matched components, functionality is easy to disrupt by displacing or dis-ordering of parts, or breaking parts, or absence etc. That is, FSCO/I by its inherent nature, comes in isolated islands of function in the space of possible configs for a given cluster of parts. (And since such is empirically abundantly vindicated by a world of technology, those who wish to claim exceptions for the world of life are under obligations to empirically demonstrate such. Just as, those who would dismiss the laws of thermodynamics and erect perpetual motion machines are under obligation to show that their contraptions work as advertised.) 20 --> The problem of course, is that FSCO/I (and especially dFSCI) is a pervasive and commonly encountered feature of the natural world. So, if the design inference is a reasonable inductive inference, FSCO/I provides a candidate sign that points to design of life, from the first reasonable cell based life on up. 21 --> But this is unacceptable to a dominant school of thought on origins, that for instance has been summarised by Richard Lewontin in a notorious NYRB article in 1997:
. . to put a correct view of the universe into people's heads we must first get an incorrect view out . . . the problem is to get them to reject irrational and supernatural explanations of the world, the demons that exist only in their imaginations, and to accept a social and intellectual apparatus, Science, as the only begetter of truth [[--> NB: this is a knowledge claim about knowledge and its possible sources, i.e. it is a claim in philosophy not science; it is thus self-refuting]. . . . To Sagan, as to all but a few other scientists, it is self-evident [[--> actually, science and its knowledge claims are plainly not immediately and necessarily true on pain of absurdity, to one who understands them; this is another logical error, begging the question , confused for real self-evidence; whereby a claim shows itself not just true but true on pain of patent absurdity if one tries to deny it . . ] that the practices of science provide the surest method of putting us in contact with physical reality, and that, in contrast, the demon-haunted world rests on a set of beliefs and behaviors that fail every reasonable test [[--> i.e. an assertion that tellingly reveals a hostile mindset, not a warranted claim] . . . . It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes [[--> another major begging of the question . . . ] to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute [[--> i.e. here we see the fallacious, indoctrinated, ideological, closed mind . . . ], for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door . . . [Of course, it is often suggested that this is somehow a case of "quote-mining" and some would suggest that onward remarks in which he sought to justify such censorship by reference to the alleged chaotic nature of a worldview that appeals to the possibility of the miraculous, justify such an attitude. But as can be seen here on in context (as in kindly read before trying certain well-known side-tracks), that is a poor excuse.]
22 --> To this, ID thinker Philip Johnson aptly said:
For scientific materialists the materialism comes first; the science comes thereafter. [[Emphasis original] We might more accurately term them "materialists employing science." And if materialism is true, then some materialistic theory of evolution has to be true simply as a matter of logical deduction, regardless of the evidence. That theory will necessarily be at least roughly like neo-Darwinism, in that it will have to involve some combination of random changes and law-like processes capable of producing complicated organisms that (in Dawkins’ words) "give the appearance of having been designed for a purpose." . . . . The debate about creation and evolution is not deadlocked . . . Biblical literalism is not the issue. The issue is whether materialism and rationality are the same thing. Darwinism is based on an a priori commitment to materialism, not on a philosophically neutral assessment of the evidence. Separate the philosophy from the science, and the proud tower collapses. [[Emphasis added.] [[The Unraveling of Scientific Materialism, First Things, 77 (Nov. 1997), pp. 22 – 25.]
23 --> So, the distractive red herrings, strawman caricatures and poisonous motive mongering above stand exposed as fallacious by simply contrasting the context of warrant for the design inference. ___________ In short, for all its vaunted assertion of prizing a neutral point of view, Wikipedia here patently fails in its duty of care to truth, warrant and fairness. That this should occur is sad. That this should be sustained for years on end by entrenched moderators and editors, in the teeth of correction is a scandal, and a warning of want of credibility. To the point where this constitutes a plain case of willfully sustained intellectual misconduct. Truly sad, and sadly revealing of the temper of our times. KFkairosfocus
December 30, 2012
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Mung: Where of course the circle closes, with Judge Copycat Jones -- 90% of the relevant rulings being taken wholesale from the ACLU/NCSE, gross errors/misrepresentations of fact and all -- being cited as though he is an authority on what is/is not to be properly deemed science. Round and round we go . . . KFkairosfocus
December 29, 2012
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Gregory: It should have been obvious that I used the term metaphorically, and ironically. "Evolve" is quite often used in the sense I have used it, in general discourse. To head off a silly side-track on what does a word mean -- as happened recently with "arbitrary" -- here is AmHD:
e·volve (-vlv) v. e·volved, e·volv·ing, e·volves v.tr. 1. a. To develop or achieve gradually: evolve a style of one's own. b. To work (something) out; devise: "the schemes he evolved to line his purse" (S.J. Perelman). 2. Biology To develop (a characteristic) by evolutionary processes. 3. To give off; emit. v.intr. 1. To undergo gradual change; develop: an amateur acting group that evolved into a theatrical company. 2. Biology To develop or arise through evolutionary processes. [Latin volvere, to unroll : -, ex-, ex- + volvere, to roll; see wel-2 in Indo-European roots.] e·volva·ble adj. e·volvement n. The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
I am quite aware of the range of biological usages, from minor population variation (Finch beaks at Galapagos) to modest changes: Red deer and american elk or circumpolar gulls, to the grand speculative reconstruction of the origin of the cosmos [cosmological evo] to that of life [chem evo] to that of major body plans [Macro evo] and onward to socio-cultural, technological and so forth. Indeed, political systems, philosophies, and product markets are all said to evolve. That includes the view that many business practices have become standardised in industries because for whatever reason, such business survive so the pattern of markets and economies also are said to evolve. Further, given that range of usages, it is reasonable to note that Wallace, co-founder of evo believed in intelligently directed evo, that many who support common descent, limited or universal believe in intelligent direction thereof, that even some who do not believe in intelligent supervision and choice. In short, idiosyncratic preferences on your part do not properly constrain how people use the term and I see no good reason to be bound by your sensibilities or be unduly impressed by your suggestion that my usage is somehow confused. Which comes very close to well poisoning tactics on a strawman distortion. So, speaking as thread owner: could you kindly take such side tracks elsewhere and focus your further commentary in this thread on the contrasted introductions. KF PS: wiki articles such as this, are dominated by a subculture that is reflected in the disproportion seen, especially those with moderation privileges. Corrective edits will almost instantly be "disappeared" and replaced by even worse statements, and this will continue with escalation until the person who tried to set the record straight can be worn down or manipulated into a condition where s/he can be deemed in violation of sufficiently serious rules. Meamwhile, while straining at a gnat, the camel of duties of care to truth, warrant and fairness will be studiously side-stepped. There have been cases of outright slander that was only removed under legal threat. On ideologised matters, Wikipedia has as toxic a culture as the major media houses across our civilisation. (Here is a case in point I remarked on yesterday with Mr Morgan of CNN, who evidently did not care that he was outright proposing the exact "censorship" that such elites are ever so quick to accuse others of.)kairosfocus
December 29, 2012
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It's important that wikipedia maintain the ID = Creationism mantra just in case some federal judge should stop by whilst preparing an opinion.Mung
December 29, 2012
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KF, Wikipedia entries do not 'evolve.' This post shows how puzzled you are about what evolves and what doesn't evolve or how unwilling you are to clarify yourself about it. That's a typical problem I've discovered with IDists that no-one in the IDM has satisfactorily addressed. What 'evolves' and what doesn't? KF wrote about a Wikipedia entry: "it had further mutated and evolved under intelligent direction into an even more strident tone than the last time I bothered to look or comment" First, Wikipedia entries are not 'organic' entities and therefore do not 'naturally' mutate. Second, 'evolved under intelligent direction' is an oxymoron. It’s closer to ‘theistic evolution’ or ‘evolutionary creation’ than it is to Big-ID. But your confusion is understandable given that Dembski unwisely accepts the idea of 'technological evolution.' Does anyone at UD have information that Dembski has retracted his support for technological evolution? I have found nothing recently to suggest that Dembski is not a technological evolutionist. Please correct me if this is wrong. My view is that Dembksi is deluded on this topic and following him is KF. This goes further to show how silly the idea of 'intelligent design/Intelligent Design' that cannot and will not study designers/Designer(s) actually is. Using the term ‘evolution’ when we can actually involve the so-called ‘evolvers’ as human beings (forget 'design' for the moment) in creating, building, making, etc. is completely unnecessary. Not that I expect you or anyone at UD to humbly concede a single reasonable and well-researched point to an anti-Big-IDist! Nevertheless, in support of your more specific claim in this thread, KF, have you looked at the characteristics (not 'nature') of people who contribute to Wikipedia by religion? From my recent research: What are the religious beliefs of Wikipedians? 2670 Atheist, 1802 Christian, 789 Agnostic, 472 Jewish, 252 Buddhist, 3 Scientologist. (Wikipedians by religion) (Note: My research was made about 90 days ago; since then only 3 atheists and 5 agnostics have joined, but more than 80 Christians have become new contributors. If that isn’t a message to inspire some of ID’s mainly Protestant evangelical folks to get off their couches and to become ‘intelligent designers’ [of Wikipedia entries!!], then I don’t know what is). That’s an obvious deviance from cultural norms in USA and worldwide, where atheism stands at roughly 13%, rather than standing at 142% of Christians, as it currently does at Wiki. NWE is of course a different story, as is its founder, Rev. Moon, a mentor of Jonathan Wells. Yes, KF, Wells is an IDist and a 'Moonie' as you know.Gregory
December 29, 2012
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Give up IDers. You don't have a prayer against such awesome intellects.Axel
December 29, 2012
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That'll larn they Christians!Axel
December 29, 2012
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So Wiki's authorities on scientific matters believe, on the basis of empirical evidence, that nothing must have turned itself into everything.... at some point in eternity before it turned itself into space-time. I see. Very cogent, if I may say so. Well done Wikipedia!Axel
December 29, 2012
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F/N: Why bother concern ourselves with Wikipedia's article on ID? Let us start with Wikipedia's claim that it is the no 5 site in the world. EbizMBA agrees with that (after: Google, Facebook, Yahoo, Youtube], and Alexa gives it a no 6 (after: Google, Facebook, Youtube, Yahoo, Baidu). Netcraft puts it down at 36. In any case, Wikipedia is very popular, and it seems that a lot of people go there to find out information. I suspect, this includes a lot of journalists, students and teachers. So, there is a likely multiplier effect. That means it is influential and that it has a major duty of care to truth, warrant and fairness. Manifestly, it is failing through obvious ideological domination, certainly on issues connected to things that the a priori materialist, secular humanists care about. So, a definite pause to examine and correct is important, not least to not allow drowning out or silencing, and to inform them that there is a problem that is being put up before the public as needing correction. We can start here with "This article is about the form of creationism promulgated by the Discovery Institute." It is not hard to see that the major Creationist organisations would disagree with that, rejecting design theory and the wider movement as not being Creationism. That should be a first flag that something is wrong. Similarly, we can see that the context of saying that ID is promulgated by the Discovery Institute, is to label it as being politically motivated by conservativism; which is a clear case of intended poisonous labelling to dismiss. To this, the first problem is, DI is an openly acknowledged LIBERTARIAN thinktank, which is not the same thing as conservativism, and indeed does not tend to be particularly closely aligned with Bible-believing Christian faith. Indeed many of the key figures associated with it are Jews, some are agnostic, some are even Moonies. It seems the label is a distorted mirror of something else we should pick up: the ideological view of those who dominate Wikipedia is plainly by and large left of centre, statist-leaning secularism. (Which is reflected in turn in the accusation that DI et al are trying to inject the supernatural into science, where an examination back to Plato, would show that he context of the inference to design on signs, is that there is a reasonable contrast subject to empirical investigation between "nature" (understood as causal factors tracing to chance and necessity such as are often studied in scientific contexts) and those tracing to intelligence acting by purpose, skill and art, i.e. design (which are studied in some scientific contexts, where such is relevant).) So, we can see some first level issues, just from the opening words and their context. KFkairosfocus
December 29, 2012
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Hi Groov: I hear you, and that may be a way to go to get a bit of leverage, if they show any sign of willingness. KFkairosfocus
December 29, 2012
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I contribute to your website and to wikipedia. Typically $50 and $5 repectively. My main reason in contributing to the latter is that they solicit comments from the contributors, and every time I will remind them that extremely politically and culturally charged articles regarding definitions of intellectual movements such as ours should be frozen after the definition is proffered by those who actually define the movement, not the bomb throwers. And I point to my meager contribution as possibly increasing in future after a favorable policy change.groovamos
December 29, 2012
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