Uncommon Descent Serving The Intelligent Design Community

The folly of projecting group-stereotype guilt and the present kairos

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The kairos concept is, in a nutshell, that there are seasons in life and in community, so that there are times that are opportune or even simply pivotal and trend-making. At such times, we are forced to decide, for good or ill. And yes, carry on with business as usual . . . especially on a manifest march of folly . . . is a [collective, power-balance driven] decision; ill advised though it may be:

Of Lemmings, marches of folly and cliffs of self-falsifying absurdity . . .

More formally:

With that in mind, I now draw attention to Chenyuan Snider’s expose of some of the more terrifying Red Guard-like group-guilt, stereotyping and scapegoating tactics of the totalitarian government she grew up under; here, targetting a particularly revered group in historic, Confucius- influenced Chinese culture, teachers. Let me excerpt to highlight the power dynamics at work:

Mrs Chenyuan Snider, Artist and Teacher

When I was a first grader, there was a new political movement initiated by the Communist Party in China – the anti-teacher movement. It was precipitated by a tragic incident in which a student in China’s remote countryside attempted suicide because of mistreatment by her teacher. Overnight, all teachers in China were considered evil by virtue of being teachers. As students, we were ordered by the authorities to write about our teachers’ unscrupulous behavior towards us. It was mandatory. Every student had to write a condemnation about their own teacher on a poster and paste it on the wall. The bigger the poster and the longer the criticism, the holier the student became. In other words, the more a teacher was vilified, the more righteous the student appeared. There was no time for anyone to process and digest the new situation because it came like a huge wave engulfing everyone. During my time growing up in China, there were several movements during which one group was set up against another. These movements had proven to be enormously effective for the communist government to consolidate power. In the process, enemies were eliminated . . . .

Throughout history, wherever there are humans, there is injustice. However, when events are interpreted not as the fault of individuals, but rather, as a fault of a certain group, it creates hostility between large numbers of people. Through propaganda and political correctness one group can claim ascendant status over another. But this does not resolve the issues. In reality, tension from both sides continues to build up and intensify, which in turn produces more injustice and opposition. The justice that is due to the true victim is often buried in the larger struggle between groups. In the end, the victim is used as a prop serving the purpose of fighting the opposition.

This is of course reflective of the common folly of projecting blame or disdain to race, class, age [or want of age], sex, profession, honest occupation or the like. Surely, we can agree with the apostles and prophets that we partake of the common grace of life, sharing a common Imago Dei.

However, as a civilisation, we now face a recrudescence of one of the worst plagues afflicting our civilisation over the past quarter-millennium, [neo-]Marxism. Here, in a plethora of manifestations of so-called Critical Theories, more accurately: cultural form, mutant Marxism.

Let’s excerpt SEP, to see a self-congratulatory, programmatic self-description (on the way to urgently needed critique):

“Critical Theory” in the narrow sense designates several generations of German philosophers and social theorists in the Western European Marxist tradition known as the Frankfurt School. According to these theorists, a “critical” theory may be distinguished from a “traditional” theory according to a specific practical purpose: a theory is critical to the extent that it seeks human “emancipation from slavery”, acts as a “liberating … influence”, and works “to create a world which satisfies the needs and powers” of human beings (Horkheimer 1972, 246). Because such theories aim to explain and transform all the circumstances that enslave human beings, many “critical theories” in the broader sense have been developed. They have emerged in connection with the many social movements that identify varied dimensions of the domination of human beings in modern societies. In both the broad and the narrow senses, however, a critical theory provides the descriptive and normative bases for social inquiry aimed at decreasing domination and increasing freedom in all their forms.

Critical Theory in the narrow sense has had many different aspects and quite distinct historical phases that cross several generations, from the effective start of the Institute for Social Research in the years 1929–1930, which saw the arrival of the Frankfurt School philosophers and an inaugural lecture by Horkheimer, to the present. Its distinctiveness as a philosophical approach that extends to ethics, political philosophy, and the philosophy of history is most apparent when considered in light of the history of the philosophy of the social sciences. Critical Theorists have long sought to distinguish their aims, methods, theories, and forms of explanation from standard understandings in both the natural and the social sciences. Instead, they have claimed that social inquiry ought to combine rather than separate the poles of philosophy and the social sciences: explanation and understanding, structure and agency, regularity and normativity. Such an approach, Critical Theorists argue, permits their enterprise to be practical in a distinctively moral (rather than instrumental) sense. They do not merely seek to provide the means to achieve some independent goal, but rather (as in Horkheimer’s famous definition mentioned above) seek “human emancipation” in circumstances of domination and oppression. This normative task cannot be accomplished apart from the interplay between philosophy and social science through interdisciplinary empirical social research (Horkheimer 1993). While Critical Theory is often thought of narrowly as referring to the Frankfurt School that begins with Horkheimer and Adorno and stretches to Marcuse and Habermas, any philosophical approach with similar practical aims could be called a “critical theory,” including feminism, critical race theory, and some forms of post-colonial criticism . . . .

It follows from Horkheimer’s definition that a critical theory is adequate only if it meets three criteria: it must be explanatory, practical, and normative, all at the same time. That is, it must explain what is wrong with current social reality, identify the actors to change it, and provide both clear norms for criticism and achievable practical goals for social transformation.

That ever so humble but sometimes inadvertently revealing crowd-source, Wikipedia, gives somewhat less subtly shielded details:

Critical theory is the reflective assessment and critique of society and culture to reveal and challenge power structures. It argues that social problems are influenced and created more by societal structures and cultural assumptions than by individual and psychological factors. Critical theory has origins in sociology and also in literary criticism. The sociologist Max Horkheimer described a theory as critical insofar as it seeks “to liberate human beings from the circumstances that enslave them”.[1]

In sociology and political philosophy, the term Critical Theory describes the Western Marxist philosophy of the Frankfurt School, which was developed in Germany in the 1930s. This use of the term requires proper noun capitalization,[citation needed] whereas “a critical theory” or “a critical social theory” may have similar elements of thought, but does not stress the intellectual lineage specific to the Frankfurt School. Frankfurt School critical theorists drew on the critical methods of Karl Marx and Sigmund Freud. Critical theory maintains that ideology is the principal obstacle to human liberation.[2] Critical theory was established as a school of thought primarily by the Frankfurt School theoreticians Herbert Marcuse, Theodor Adorno, Max Horkheimer, Walter Benjamin, and Erich Fromm. Modern critical theory has additionally been influenced by György Lukács and Antonio Gramsci, as well as the second generation Frankfurt School scholars, notably Jürgen Habermas. In Habermas’s work, critical theory transcended its theoretical roots in German idealism and progressed closer to American pragmatism. Concern for social “base and superstructure” is one of the remaining Marxist philosophical concepts in much of contemporary critical theory.[3]

Postmodern [–> thus, current] critical theory analyzes the fragmentation of cultural identities in order to challenge modernist era constructs such as metanarratives, rationality and universal truths, while politicizing social problems “by situating them in historical and cultural contexts, to implicate themselves in the process of collecting and analyzing data, and to relativize their findings”.[4]

Ironically, the “metanarrative” of Western, white male domination and the heroic effort to overthrow it is, of course, an obvious self-referentially incoherent element in all this. And, as we saw from Ms Snider, once sociopathic radical ideologues use this metanarrative to target those whom they wish to turn into scapegoats, the door yawns to group guilt on core characteristics that are genetic or so shaped by one’s life story as to be key to one’s identity, leading to terrifying injustice through agit prop, media amplification of street theatre, media lynch mobs, lawfare, show trials and oh so convenient “progressive” solutions.

If such does not ring true, it should.

Now, several years ago, here at UD, I put on the table an alternative framework for political spectra, informed by historical trends and linked factors on modern liberty and constitutional, democratic self-government through elected representatives:

U/d b for clarity, nb Nil

It seems to me, that this is a useful framework to speak to some ugly trends of our time that are not without relevance to the marginalising, stereotyping, slandering, expelling and scapegoating of supporters of Intelligent Design. But then, it — more significantly — speaks far more broadly.

The natural state of humanity is tyranny, or at most some degree of lawfulness under a somewhat fair-minded governing elite. The antithesis to that is the raw, untamed wilderness, the “dark and bloody ground” of the so-called state of nature. That description, is how Kentucky (then a mutually agreed hunting grounds of the tribes) was described to one Daniel Boone, by Amerindians. Such a state is so abhorrent, so prone to naked theft, murder and rapine, that it is a repeller-pole that drives communities towards the vortex of tyranny. From which, historically, as a rule one only escapes by rivers of blood and tears.

In my considered opinion, it was only as the rise of moveable-type print coupled to a religious ferment emphasising freedom of conscience and individual accountability before God, that the unstable but sustainable middle ground emerged. Between 1450 and 1650, the groundwork for democratising reforms with due buttressing from key community institutions enabled the rise of modern, elected representative, parliamentary democracy constrained not only by a tradition-bound corpus of law, but by explicit Constitutions pivoting crucially on Bills of Rights articulated on built-in, conscience attested principles of natural law. I should add, interestingly, all of these happened in lands that acceded to Christian Civilisation and which had a significantly Germanic cultural base with its emphasis on freedom, thus consent to legitimate rule.

Where, let us recall, some core theses:

Thus, as we see in Augustine’s and Aquinas’ reflections:

Where, we may see Aquinas’ theme of a naturally evident, intelligible (so, sound conscience attested), creation-order based framework for civil law and for reformation:

We still hear an echo of this in the concept of crimes that shock the conscience. Such crimes can be done by some brigand hiding in a cave, but they can also be done by those in positions of lawful power or even some who pose as liberators. Crimes can even be done under false colours of law or rights and even that of processes of justice, through lawfare.

In my considered view, the ongoing abortion holocaust of our living posterity in the womb . . . 800+ millions in 40+ years and mounting up by another better part of a million per week [statistics suggests 1.4 billion] . . . is a capital, utterly civilisation corrupting example.

Litmus Test: if one cannot pass the test of standing up for the unborn, further claims to be a champion of liberation of the oppressed can be disregarded.

However, in our day, the toxic brew we face is compounded by a widespread rejection of the natural law vision with its pivot on sound conscience sensitive to truth, duty, justice. I here point to legal positivism and the nihilism that crouches at the door.

Again, SEP is subtly veiled, but enough sticks out that we can pick up hints as to the lurking reefs of a graveyard of ships of state:

Legal positivism is the thesis that the existence and content of law depends on social facts and not on its merits. The English jurist John Austin (1790–1859) formulated it thus:

>>The existence of law is one thing; its merit and demerit another. Whether it be or be not is one enquiry; whether it be or be not conformable to an assumed standard, is a different enquiry. (1832 [1995: 157]) >>

The positivist thesis does not say that law’s merits are unintelligible, unimportant, or peripheral to the philosophy of law. It says that they do not determine whether laws or legal systems exist. Whether a society has a legal system depends on the presence of certain structures of governance, not on the extent to which it satisfies ideals of justice, democracy, or the rule of law. What laws are in force in that system depends on what social standards its officials recognize as authoritative; for example, legislative enactments, judicial decisions, or social customs. The fact that a policy would be just, wise, efficient, or prudent is never sufficient reason for thinking that it is actually the law, and the fact that it is unjust, unwise, inefficient or imprudent is never sufficient reason for doubting it. According to positivism, law is a matter of what has been posited (ordered, decided, practiced, tolerated, etc.). Austin thought the thesis “simple and glaring”. While it is probably the dominant view among analytically inclined philosophers of law, it is also the subject of competing interpretations together with persistent criticisms and misunderstandings.

Wikipedia is again inadvertently more frank and tellingly revealing:

Legal positivism is a school of thought of analytical jurisprudence developed largely by legal philosophers during the 18th and 19th centuries, such as Jeremy Bentham and John Austin. While Bentham and Austin developed legal positivist theory, empiricism provided the theoretical basis for such developments to occur. The most prominent legal positivist writer in English has been H. L. A. Hart, who, in 1958, found common usages of “positivism” as applied to law to include the contentions that:

— laws are commands of human beings;

— there is not any necessary relation between law and morality, that is, between law as it is and as it ought to be;

— analysis (or study of the meaning) of legal concepts is worthwhile and is to be distinguished from history or sociology of law, as well as from criticism or appraisal of law, for example with regard to its moral value or to its social aims or functions;

— a legal system is a closed, logical system in which correct decisions can be deduced from predetermined legal rules without reference to social considerations;

— moral judgments, unlike statements of fact, cannot be established or defended by rational argument, evidence, or proof (“noncognitivism” in ethics).[1]

Historically, legal positivism is in opposition to natural law’s theories of jurisprudence, with particular disagreement surrounding the natural lawyer’s claim that there is a necessary connection between law and morality.

Got that? As in, “moral judgments, unlike statements of fact, cannot be established or defended by rational argument, evidence, or proof.”

Thus, then, “legal positivism is in opposition to natural law’s theories of jurisprudence, with particular disagreement surrounding the natural lawyer’s claim that there is a necessary connection between law and morality.”

Morality and justice, having been banished to the realms of irrationality, law is severed from the premise of morality, thus, justice. Nihilism — raw, untrammelled will to power (tempered only by cunning calculation as to what one can get away with, or cannot YET get away with) crouches at the door.

Enter, stage left, the sociopath with power or hoping to gain power; even under the guise of righting grave wrongs and liberating the oppressed. (And we need not detain ourselves on cheap agit prop stunts of turnabout projection as to who is oppressor. All polities are prone to injustices, the issue is to keep open a path to sound reformation.)

Destination, tyranny and the ruinous march of angry fools following a demonically anointed false political messiah:

Reformation is indicated, in defence of our civilisation.

As a start-point, we must recognise certain inescapable first principles and duties of reason that not only pervade but actually govern all of our rationality. Pace the legal positivists, morality is central to rationality and is itself rational, pivoting on self-evident first principles.

How can we — in an age blighted by selective hyperskepticism sitting in the seat of proper prudence — have confidence in such?

Simple, the very one who objects to such principles, inevitably, inescapably, implicitly, ALWAYS appeals to our intuitive adherence to such first duties of reason. So, we may freely hold that what is inescapably bound up in our rational life is just as inescapably, manifestly, necessarily, self-evidently true.

Where, of course, I here speak of our inescapable first duties of reason: to truth, to right reason, to prudence, to neighbour, so also to fairness and justice, etc.

Epictetus gives us a classic demonstration in a nutshell:

DISCOURSES
CHAPTER XXV

How is logic necessary?

When someone in [Epictetus’] audience said, Convince me that logic is necessary, he answered: Do you wish me to demonstrate this to you?—Yes.—Well, then, must I use a demonstrative argument?—And when the questioner had agreed to that, Epictetus asked him. How, then, will you know if I impose upon you?—As the man had no answer to give, Epictetus said: Do you see how you yourself admit that all this instruction is necessary, if, without it, you cannot so much as know whether it is necessary or not? [Cf J. C. Wright]

Let the legal positivist or critical theorist object rationally and responsibly without implicitly relying on such, if he can: _______ . We confidently, freely hold that he cannot do so.

On this, we may go down the line of asking what sort of reality root must obtain, in a world of such rationally, morally governed creatures. There is no serious answer to that, but that that root is the inherently good, utterly wise source of worlds. A familiar figure, but we need not explore that side, other than to note that the rise of both so called legal positivism and cultural marxism trace to the rise of atheism as a mass movement. First, among intellectual classes then more widely as ideologies dressed up in lab coats took root and seized cultural high ground.

That is significant, as it implies that needed reform has to challenge such intellectual roots and correct such ideologies. Which brings us to the general relevance of a useful but sometimes controversial mapping exercise:

You tell me that this model — originally tracing to the circle, Bill Bright, Loren Cunningham and Francis Schaeffer 40+ years past — does not capture a good slice of the issue. I think, we can freely use it as a map . . . which is not the territory but if well made, a helpful guide to it. (I suggest, using it in two modes: one, as a map of high ground dominating community life with seven metaphorical hills to match the famous seven hills of Rome; two, as a temple with seven columns that support and are in turn protected by a common roof.)

So, we can clearly see elements of the witches’ brew and storm that has begun to break across our civilisation in this, The Year of Our Lord, 2020, MMXX.

We have to challenge worldviews and cultural agendas, exposing Overton Window power games:

(Who would have thought that significant voices in a leading power in our day, would irresponsibly call for “defunding the police” in the context of a case where one officer . . . on evidence, likely for good reason . . . faces Murder 1 charges and three juniors face only slightly lesser charges? That, shocks both mind and conscience. Yes, reform the police is always a legitimate issue, defunding them would only trigger snap-back to the vortex of tyranny. If you needed evidence of a fourth generation, agit prop, media manipulation and lawfare driven, so far low kinetic civil war in that power, there it is. A voyage of folly is ruinous as the ghosts of Socrates, Plato and even Alcibiades would jointly warn.)

However, the issue is far wider and deeper than current political and police follies. Reformation is what is needed, and that has to engage worldviews roots. Such as, turtles all the way down being impossible:

“Turtles, all the way down . . . ” vs a root cause

Let us consider how we get to worldview root level, first plausible framework faith points:

A summary of why we end up with foundations for our worldviews, whether or not we would phrase the matter that way}

In this context, rebalancing how we consume mass and nowadays social media will be necessary also — as one of our very first steps:

Similarly, it is clear that cultural marxism and legal positivism cannot make the grade. So, it is time for serious re-thinking towards sound reformation. Otherwise, shipwreck. END

PS: Notice how street protesters in DC added to the BLM street slogan put up by the Mayor:

In broad daylight:

WASHINGTON, DC – JUNE 08: People walk down 16th street after ‚ÄúDefund The Police‚Äù was painted on the street near the White House on June 08, 2020 in Washington, DC. After days of protests in DC over the death of George Floyd, DC Mayor Muriel Bowser has renamed that section of 16th street “Black Lives Matter Plaza”. (Photo by Tasos Katopodis/Getty Images)

The platform:

PPS: Warlordism and “protection” demands emerge in Seattle WA, USA — anarchy is a repeller pole that tends to push communities to the vortex of tyranny:

PPPS: The monument to fallen police officers that was recently vandalised:

And, after repeated vandalisation this is the statue of the man who warned against appeasing Herr Schicklegruber and Co. then led Britain’s lonely stand with backs to the wall in 1940. Yes, Sir Winston Spencer Churchill, in London:

Comments
Bornagain77 @ 281
Seversky, your belief that your life matters, like your belief that you exist as a real person, (if your Darwinian worldview were true) is just an illusion.
No, it isn't what I'd call an illusion. It's more like a model built out of abstracted information to be a workable but inevitably partial representation of what is assumed to be actually out there. That's not an illusion.
Excerpt: When I teach these concepts in the classroom, an example my students find especially poignant is Flesh and Machines by Rodney Brooks, professor emeritus at MIT. Brooks writes that a human being is nothing but a machine — a “big bag of skin full of biomolecules” interacting by the laws of physics and chemistry. In ordinary life, of course, it is difficult to actually see people that way. But, he says, “When I look at my children, I can, when I force myself, … see that they are machines.”
It sounds from that description as if Professor Brooks is committing the same error of analogical argument as we see being made here in other contexts. Yes, human beings can be likened to machines in some ways but not in others . There are many ways in which biological organisms differ from the machines we design so it is a category error for Professor Brooks to say that his children are nothing but machines.
Existential Argument against Atheism – November 1, 2013 by Jason Petersen
This again?
1. If a worldview is true then you should be able to live consistently with that worldview.
In principle, possibly, but in practice our knowledge of the world is less than perfect so our worldviews are almost certainly going to be in error in various ways. The only reasonable response is to acknowledge that none of us can have perfectly consistent worldviews so we must be prepared to adjust them as errors become apparent - which is obviously a problem for those who believe that their views are inerrant - but should enjoin a degree of humility in those who are not so certain.
2. Atheists are unable to live consistently with their worldview.
Says who?
3. If you can’t live consistently with an atheist worldview then the worldview does not reflect reality.
Nobody's worldview is a perfect reflection of reality - not atheist not theist.
4. If a worldview does not reflect reality then that worldview is a delusion.
No, being inaccurate and incomplete does not mean its a delusion.
5. If atheism is a delusion then atheism cannot be true.
Nothing from above implies that atheism is a delusion.
Conclusion: Atheism is false.
"Non sequitur! Your facts are uncoordinated!"Seversky
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Sev, there is no US popular vote, that is a popularised media myth. As a component of the balances starting with the Connecticut compromise, the US is a balanced federation with local popular support for one chamber and equal state representation in the other chamber of the senior arm of govt, the legislature. In that context, the presidency is chosen in a way that is designed to block one or two large states dominating the whole (then, it was Virginia). The point is that a president should reflect the balance of the states that form an interdependent federal whole. KFkairosfocus
June 13, 2020
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Is Wyoming still part of the USA? Whoa...ET
June 13, 2020
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ET,
And the electoral college ensures that each State has a say in who gets elected to the Presidency.
Especially Wyoming.daveS
June 13, 2020
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seversky:
The popular vote was won by nearly 3 million votes by a candidate – who was acknowledged to be not personally the most likeable – but who lost to the vagaries of the Electoral College system.
What an ignorant thing to say. This is the United STATES. And the electoral college ensures that each State has a say in who gets elected to the Presidency. Without the electoral college the Presidency would be decided by a few urban areas. Those areas are heavily populated by the "entitled" who are bought and paid for by the Democratic party. Hillary would have doomed the USA. And Biden will be China's puppet.ET
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John_a_designer @ 279
That sounds nice and well meaning, however, how do we arrive at any kind of consensus without some kind of interpersonal standard which we can use to judge whose moral beliefs or opinions have merit and whose do not? If all moral beliefs and opinions are equal, which they must be according moral subjectivism and relativism, then such a standard does not exist and all talk of so-called consensus is illusory.
What function do moral beliefs serve in a society other than to regulate the way members of that society behave towards one another? What is the purpose of such regulation other than to protect the common interests of all members of that society, such as interests in personal survival and the survival of those who for whom we care, interests in access to water, food and shelter, interests in being able to provide for and support those for whom we care and interests in a safe and secure environment in which such interests can be met? And who better to decide how those interests may best be served than those whose interests they are? Who else should be involved? No, it's not going to be simple or easy to do it but that's no reason not to try.Seversky
June 13, 2020
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LOL Sev: "what does it matter, so long as it is there?" LOL,,, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha,,, Darwinian logic 101, its there, therefore Darwinism done it! LOL,,, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha,,,bornagain77
June 13, 2020
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Bornagain77 @ 278
LOL, And exactly what is suppose to be the material basis for “the instinct of sympathy”
In the first place, what does it matter, so long as it is there? In the second place, the origins of such an instinct is certainly of scientific interest. In the third place, the only alternative explanation - your God - doesn't really work since, according to Old testament accounts, His "instinct of sympathy" seems to have been notable by its absence on a number of occasions.Seversky
June 13, 2020
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I mean our electoral map always looks like that at the county level. The rural areas vote Republican and the urban areas Democrat.daveS
June 13, 2020
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Seversky, your belief that your life matters, like your belief that you exist as a real person, (if your Darwinian worldview were true) is just an illusion.
The Heretic – Who is Thomas Nagel and why are so many of his fellow academics condemning him? – March 25, 2013 Excerpt:,,,Fortunately, materialism is never translated into life as it’s lived. As colleagues and friends, husbands and mothers, wives and fathers, sons and daughters, materialists never put their money where their mouth is. Nobody thinks his daughter is just molecules in motion and nothing but; nobody thinks the Holocaust was evil, but only in a relative, provisional sense. A materialist who lived his life according to his professed convictions—understanding himself to have no moral agency at all, seeing his friends and enemies and family as genetically determined robots—wouldn’t just be a materialist: He’d be a psychopath. http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/heretic_707692.html?page=3 Darwin’s Robots: When Evolutionary Materialists Admit that Their Own Worldview Fails – Nancy Pearcey – April 23, 2015 Excerpt: When I teach these concepts in the classroom, an example my students find especially poignant is Flesh and Machines by Rodney Brooks, professor emeritus at MIT. Brooks writes that a human being is nothing but a machine — a “big bag of skin full of biomolecules” interacting by the laws of physics and chemistry. In ordinary life, of course, it is difficult to actually see people that way. But, he says, “When I look at my children, I can, when I force myself, … see that they are machines.” Is that how he treats them, though? Of course not: “That is not how I treat them…. I interact with them on an entirely different level. They have my unconditional love, the furthest one might be able to get from rational analysis.” Certainly if what counts as “rational” is a materialist worldview in which humans are machines, then loving your children is irrational. It has no basis within Brooks’s worldview. It sticks out of his box. How does he reconcile such a heart-wrenching cognitive dissonance? He doesn’t. Brooks ends by saying, “I maintain two sets of inconsistent beliefs.” He has given up on any attempt to reconcile his theory with his experience. He has abandoned all hope for a unified, logically consistent worldview. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2015/04/when_evolutiona095451.html
This impossibility for Atheists to live consistently within their stated worldview directly undermines their claim that Atheism is true Specifically, as the following article points out, if it is impossible for you to live your life consistently as if atheistic materialism were actually true, then atheistic materialism cannot possibly reflect reality as it really is but atheistic materialism must instead be based on a delusion.
Existential Argument against Atheism – November 1, 2013 by Jason Petersen 1. If a worldview is true then you should be able to live consistently with that worldview. 2. Atheists are unable to live consistently with their worldview. 3. If you can’t live consistently with an atheist worldview then the worldview does not reflect reality. 4. If a worldview does not reflect reality then that worldview is a delusion. 5. If atheism is a delusion then atheism cannot be true. Conclusion: Atheism is false. http://answersforhope.com/existential-argument-atheism/
bornagain77
June 13, 2020
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Kairosfocus @ 274
This is seen in the county-level structure of the 2016 General Election, which has the signature of a peasant revolt.
What peasant revolt? The popular vote was won by nearly 3 million votes by a candidate - who was acknowledged to be not personally the most likeable - but who lost to the vagaries of the Electoral College system. If the "peasants" were to revolt, it should be against a political system which allows those with the wealth and power to manipulate it to their advantage and ignore the expression of popular will. And to pretend that Trump is anything other than a member of that elite is purblind ignorance.Seversky
June 13, 2020
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Here is something Seversky said about a year and a half ago which I think is relevant here:
I believe that the overwhelming majority of ordinary, decent people, if honestly presented with the best information available will choose a moral solution. This is why I believe consensus morality is the only alternative to some sort of imposed command morality, whether theological or ideological. The problem in democracies is that politicians are rarely honest about their real intentions and treat good information as a rare and precious commodity not to be lightly handed out to just anyone. The problem is, how do we prevent the people we choose to run things for us from being corrupted by the power we hand them?
https://uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/severskey-is-honest/#comment-672632 That sounds nice and well meaning, however, how do we arrive at any kind of consensus without some kind of interpersonal standard which we can use to judge whose moral beliefs or opinions have merit and whose do not? If all moral beliefs and opinions are equal, which they must be according moral subjectivism and relativism, then such a standard does not exist and all talk of so-called consensus is illusory.john_a_designer
June 13, 2020
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Sev, via Darwin, claims
"The aid which we feel impelled to give to the helpless is mainly an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, which was originally acquired as part of the social instincts, but subsequently rendered, in the manner previously indicated, more tender and more widely diffused. "
LOL, And exactly what is suppose to be the material basis for "the instinct of sympathy"
"In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.” - Richard Dawkins, River Out of Eden: A Darwinian View of Life
And it is also funny how natural selection can explain completely opposite 'instincts' with equal ease,
"Natural selection makes humans self-centered and aggressive – except when it makes them altruistic and peaceable. Or natural selection produces virile men who eagerly spread their seed – except when it prefers men who are faithful protectors and providers. When an explanation is so supple that it can explain any behavior, it is difficult to test it experimentally, much less use it as a catalyst for scientific discovery." - Philip Skell - Why Do We Invoke Darwin? https://www.the-scientist.com/opinion-old/why-do-we-invoke-darwin-48438
bornagain77
June 13, 2020
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Bornagain77 @ 272 You quote Nancy Pearcey quoting Darwin as follows:
Third, eugenics. In The Descent of Man, Darwin states, “We civilised men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination… Thus the weak members of civilised societies propagate their kind.” He then observes, “It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly any one is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.
Does Pearcey have the intellectual honesty to also quote from the next paragraph in Descent ?
The aid which we feel impelled to give to the helpless is mainly an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, which was originally acquired as part of the social instincts, but subsequently rendered, in the manner previously indicated, more tender and more widely diffused. Nor could we check our sympathy, even at the urging of hard reason, without deterioration in the noblest part of our nature.
Seversky
June 13, 2020
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Bornagain77 @ 267
Hmm, and exactly why should any life matter under Darwinism?
Matter to whom? My life matters to me. Your life matters to you. The lives of the people and creatures I love matter to me and I assume the same is true for you. I don't need the theory of evolution for that to be true for me. Are you saying you would care for nothing or no one unless it was sanctioned by your faith? Why should things only matter because they have some purpose in the mind of some third party like your God?Seversky
June 13, 2020
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PS: Some sobering reading: https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/abandoning-liberalism-will-destroy-social-peace/ Ask yourself what happens when fatal disaffection sets in.kairosfocus
June 13, 2020
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ET, there is a rule of thumb about complex networks, that full interaction goes as n(n-1)/2, essentially an n-square result. Canada currently has ~ 38 mn people, the US ~ 330 mn. Interaction challenges for the latter are about two orders of magnitude more complex than for Canada. Of course, there is breakdown into sub blocks and there is concentration of info flows and interaction through the media. That still points to the far more complex nature of the US. Similarly, the existence of a two-to three generation length insurgency by culture-form marxism that has seized effective control of the academy, the media and the deep state's governance classes has led to a 4th generation civil war now moving up towards much more kinetic clashes. The resistance to that soft coup has centred on the hinterlands, which produce key resources consumed by the urban and coastal enclaves dominated by the already radically secularised, marxism influenced [think, Critical Studies of X where X ranges across the span of fashionable academia] urban enclaves. This is seen in the county-level structure of the 2016 General Election, which has the signature of a peasant revolt. Canada's soft coup (as with that for W. Europe) is much further along because of much higher centralisation and resulting domination by elites. The two are indeed not to be compared, and Canada and Europe significantly gain advantages from materials and services the US provides. Take that off the table and chaos will spread rapidly. Some serious rethinking needs to happen, especially with the current march of folly in full cry. KFkairosfocus
June 13, 2020
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Why does life matter under Darwinism? Without life there isn't Darwinism.ET
June 13, 2020
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EG,
"It (life) doesn’t (matter)."
And so, as someone who defends Darwinism, what is your entire purpose for arguing that life does matter if, as you honestly confessed, in your worldview it really doesn't matter? Without Christianity or some Theistic worldview very similar to Christianity, you simply have no moral foundation in which to argue that any life, even your own life, matters.. via Nancy Pearcey
Scientists are being purged for endorsing eugenics. Will Darwin be next? "First, differences between the sexes. In The Descent of Man, Darwin states that “the average of mental power in man must be above that of woman.” And in an 1882 letter, he states that “women though generally superior to men to moral qualities are inferior intellectually,” and that “there seems to me to be a great difficulty from the laws of inheritance… in their becoming the intellectual equals of man.”... Second, differences between the races. Referring to some natives he encountered in South America during the voyage of the Beagle, Darwin observes, “one can hardly make oneself believe that they are fellow creatures.” He dedicates a whole chapter of The Descent of Man, to his study of “the races of man.” In that chapter he states, “There is, however, no doubt that the various races, when carefully compared and measured, differ much from each other… Their mental characteristics are likewise very distinct; chiefly as it would appear in their emotional, but partly in their intellectual faculties.” And in an earlier chapter of the book, he contrasts the “civilised races of man” with “the savage races,” noting that the former will “almost certainly exterminate, and replace” the latter. Third, eugenics. In The Descent of Man, Darwin states, “We civilised men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination… Thus the weak members of civilised societies propagate their kind.” He then observes, “It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly any one is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.”
Verse and DOI quote
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. ,,, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.",,, - The Declaration of Independence
bornagain77
June 13, 2020
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I don’t understand the moral equivalency argument in comparing capital punishment to abortion. With capital punishment the criminal has been given a fair trial and is usually convicted and sentenced by a jury of his peers. What legal due process does an unborn baby get? That said I’ll gladly drop my tepid support of the death penalty if the 1973 Roe v. Wade SCOTUS decision was overturned. By the way that’s a deal for abortion advocates because it would not make abortion illegal. It would just return the legal and legislative rights to the states.john_a_designer
June 13, 2020
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BA77
Hmm, and exactly why should any life matter under Darwinism?
It doesn’t. I assume that you are attempting to make a cogent point.Ed George
June 13, 2020
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[Points and laughs @ the comparison of Canada to the USA]ET
June 13, 2020
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daves and kairosfocus- as KF said, the scenario I mentioned has a very low, but not zero, probability. There could be other such rare scenarios, too. Each case would be independent of the others. But each case should be weighed against the fact that there are TWO humans lives to consider. That is what we are asking. Just being an "unwanted pregnancy" doesn't cut it.ET
June 13, 2020
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Hmm, and exactly why should any life matter under Darwinism?
Only the Christian Worldview Can Consistently Argue that Lives Matter - June 12, 2020 - Mark Farnham https://apolotheo.wordpress.com/2020/06/12/only-the-christian-worldview-can-consistently-argue-that-lives-matter/
bornagain77
June 13, 2020
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KF, That's not a loaded question by any stretch. ET didn't hesitate to give a forthright answer.daveS
June 13, 2020
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DS, loaded questions have to be answered on their complexity. I have marked a significant prior issue. KFkairosfocus
June 13, 2020
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KF,
DS, there is a difference between justification and being excusable as lesser of evils: it is wrong to steal but it is understood that there are circumstances where it is understandable. Looting is not one of them. ET gave a classic example, one that is vanishingly rare relative to the a bit less than a million cases per week. KF
May I infer that your answer is "yes" then?daveS
June 13, 2020
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EG, you have loaded in so many assumptions regarding circumstances and actual personal views that it would be hard to disentangle. Historically, most jurisdictions were unable to sustain long term, high prisoner population gaols or staff for same or police forces. The real alternative to execution was indenture or enslavement, as you can easily see from so late an author as Locke. And frankly, there are circumstances that may be closer to the surface than you think, where that may happen again. All of that is tangential to and distractive from the issues actually on the table. The latest development on the group guilt fallacy being someone apparently deliberately loosening lug nuts on a police officer's vehicle. Attempted murder, with possibility of mass murder. That is where we have reached. KF PS: Did you catch the invidious association between being a convicted serial murderer and being an unborn child in a teen mother's womb? I suggest you think again. And BTW, gaol staff and other prisoners would be directly at risk.kairosfocus
June 13, 2020
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DS, there is a difference between justification and being excusable as lesser of evils: it is wrong to steal but it is understood that there are circumstances where it is understandable. Looting is not one of them. ET gave a classic example, one that is vanishingly rare relative to the a bit less than a million cases per week. KFkairosfocus
June 13, 2020
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Just to provide perspective to JaD’s comment. Canada has no legal restrictions on abortion. No waiting period, to counselling, no limits on stage of pregnancy. Abortion rates. Canada. 13.7 US 19.6Ed George
June 13, 2020
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